On page 17 of George’s interview with OCSO on 07/24/08 he has just finished going through several minutes of explaining how he was so concerned with the odor he smelled when he first opened the door of the Pontiac at the impound lot. Let’s review these previous statements George made in this interview.
I, I, I believe that there’s something dead back there. And I hate to say the word human. Uhm, I, I hate to say that. As a matter of fact, when you were in court the other day you did not say that initially. You were led with that by the prosecutor. I, I caught that. I’m not too naïve. So she led that in to be human decomposition. You did not say that. I know that as a fact. I’ve been around that. I mean the law enforcement stuff that I did, we caught people out in the woods, in a house, in a, in a car. So I know what it smells like. It’s a smell that you never…
…never get rid of. When I first went there to pick up that vehicle I got within three feet of it I could smell something. You look up and you say, please don’t let this be. Please don’t let this be. Because may…I’m thinking of my daughter and my granddaughter first. I glance in the car on the passenger side, I see her seat’s there and I see some other stuff around in it. And as I walk around to the driver’s side and put the key in it, I said, “Please don’t let this be what I think it is.” The wrecker, I don’t know what the gentleman’s name. I still don’t know. I’m sure you guys know it by now. But he, and I opened up the door and he said, “Whoa, does that stink.” I said, I sat in the car for a second. I opened up the passenger door because I was trying to vent that thing.
You know and I smell and I’m like, “Oh, God” I tried to start the car for a second and I said, “No, George, if there’s something wrong. You got to find out now. You can’t take it away.” I told the guy, I said, “Will you please walk around to the back of this car and look inside this with me?” As I walked around, I don’t believe I said to him you know aloud and I, I think I whispered out to myself “Please don’t let this be my Caylee.” That’s what I thought. That’s what I, my heart was saying.
The July 24, 2008 interview with OCSO was initiated by George himself. He was burdened with his concerns both about what had happened to his granddaughter as well as with the relationship between the investigators and his family (more namely Cindy). He came to see them to purge himself of fears he had and to try to mend some fences that were being damaged by Cindy’s public statements about OCSO.
Now, as time went by we would see George accept and repeat the idea that the stench he smelled in the car was from pizza left in the trash bag (even though there was no pizza in the trash bag). On the evening before Caylee’s body was found in December 2008 we would watch George on Larry King Live state that in these early days he had not considered that there was pizza in the trunk and how bad it could smell if left in a car, in the Florida summer, for as long as the car sat at the impound lot before being picked up. There are a couple of problems with the change of George’s position…not just because the latter “pizza theory” contradicts other evidence, but because it doesn’t make any sense to George’s behavior in the early days….and, in fact, a review shows that George did not “accept” the pizza theory, but created it.
The facts against the “pizza theory” are:
- There was no pizza. (I guess I could probably stop there if I wanted to.)
- It does not explain Casey’s statements as early as the third week of June made via text messages to Amy (or her alleged statements to Lee after being arrested) that the car had been stinking long before impoundment and it was due to “crawling dead squirrels” or something to that effect.
- …but in focusing on George alone we have a problem. GEORGE is the one that came up with the “pizza theory” and he as much admits why he did it. So it isn’t like he was fed the pizza theory AFTER the 07/24/08 statements (say, by Cindy), he was the one that STARTED the pizza theory 9 days BEFORE the 07/24/08 statements.
To be clear, George was not the only one, on July 15th at the impound lot, when that door was opened, to fear they were smelling a dead body. In fact, George was not the only one who feared he was smelling CAYLEE’s dead body. Simon Burch did as well. In Mr. Burch’s interview with OCSO on 07/24/08 he repeatedly states his concerns that the smell might be connected to George’s missing granddaughter:
SB: Yeah (affirmative). So I didn’t think anything of it. Uhm, when I took Mr. George back uh, to get the vehicle, uhm, he opened the car of the driver’s side door. I walked around to the driver’s side with him and he put the key in and opened the driver’s side door. And when he did the, the, the smell was pungent. I mean it was, it knocked me back. It knocked me back. Whilst we were going out to the car uhm, he was conversing with me and saying, “Hey, I’m sorry,” blah, blah, blah. “You know I, I’m sorry. I apologize. We’ll probably get divorced over this.” The daughter is telling us crap, a bunch of lies. And I really didn’t pay a great deal of attention to it.
…An then when he opened the car door and that stench come out, by, like my heart dropped because he was, all of a sudden he was, he’d been telling
me about his granddaughter missing.
Mr. Burch also states it did not smell like rotten garbage:
…And uh, we open the trunk up and there was flies and stuff and a real bad smell like oh, my God. And, and in the back of my head I’m going that isn’t rotten garbage. You know I know what rotten garbage smells like. That doesn’t smell like rotten garbage to me. Uhm, we do have, well actually we did have a car in the yard at the same time that this car was here down the other end of our yard that uh, a guy had committed suicide in.
Simon Burch states once the car door was opened it was that “…deceased smell.” He then goes on to state that relative to the odor of the car in which a man who had committed suicide was left there undiscovered for 5 days:
SB: Man, if I was, when I opened the, the Anthony’s car up that was when it was a similar kind of odor.
He goes on to readdress the thought that crossed his mind when the door was opened and he first was hit with the odor:
SB: Uhm, I do remember saying to uh, uhm, one of my employees when I came back (unintelligible) girl I said, “You know he was telling me on the Mr., the, the guy was telling on the way over there about his granddaughter missing and I opened the car door and there was a stench.” And I said, and I said, “And it’s just like a flash went through my mind and I went oh, my God, you know, she’s in the trunk kind of thing.
And before the interview is over Mr. Burch reiterates a final time the thought that went through his mind when the door was opened:
SB: Not even with a smell in it, uh, just observing it in the yard. It was literally about five seconds when he opened the car door up after he’d been telling that his daughter was lying and his granddaughter was missing and blah, blah, blah, and her car seat was in the car, and he opened the door when that was there I went, “Oh, shit.”
SB: And uh, that was the first time that I really thought anything could have hooky.
Now, in George’s 08/05/09 deposition with the state he is asked about the smell of the car.
A Well, it was an overpowering odor. It was something that anyone within a few feet of this vehicle could have smelled something. And –
Q And did you believe the smell — did you recognize the smell as being a smell of human decomposition?
A Not human decomposition. I knew it was decomposition there. I knew there was something that just didn’t smell right to me. As I went around to the
driver’s side, opened up the driver’s door and it took my breath away for a second. It really did. I mean, it’s 90 some degrees outside. The car had been sitting there for over two weeks. I remember opening the driver’s window, trying to vent the car a little bit.…And the attendant that was there, he’s the one that says: Oh, my gosh, this really stinks. And I said: Yeah –
Q Let me stop you for a second before you go on to that; okay? As you approached the car, did it come into your mind that the odor might be from the
decomposition of either your daughter or your granddaughter?A Not at that point. No, sir.
Q It never crossed your mind?
A Not at that initial point. No. It did not.
A After I tried to start the car and I remember the attendant saying how strong it was, and I said: Yeah. And I said: It’s a little bit tough. I looked around the inside of the car. I couldn’t see anything except my granddaughter’s car seat and some shoes and some other stuff. The car was, you know, messy inside. And I remember getting out of the driver’s seat and walking towards the back of the car. And I didn’t say it directly to this gentleman. I did say it to my — underneath my breath. I said: Please don’t let this be my daughter or granddaughter. And as I opened up the trunk, the only thing that was there was a bag full of garbage, a white bag with the tie on it, twist tie. There was an Arm & Hammer liquid detergent. I don’t remember what size. I guess about that size [indicating]. There was a pizza box and there was maggots inside of that box — I mean, in that bag. I remember that specifically because they were making a cracking sound, like hamburger on a skillet. I remember that specifically. I did not touch it. The attendant reached inside and he says: This is your smell. He grabbed it, the trunk got shut and he walked over and disposed of it inside the –
– a trash receptacle under the trash thing that was right there.
Q All right. At some point up to this point in time, did you recognize the smell as something you had smelled before?
A It reminded me of something that I had smelled probably years ago when I was in law enforcement. Yeah. It did.
Q What was that?
A A — could be some decomposition of possibly human remains, a possibility.
Q Would you agree that — with the statement that once you’ve smelled human decomposition, you never forget it?
A Yeah. There’s some certain things in life you just don’t forget. But then again, that is not what I found in the back of my granddaughter’s — I mean, my daughter’s car. I didn’t.
Q Is it your testimony here today that at that time, the odor that you smelled, in your opinion, was definitely human decomposition or could have been from
A To be honest, I think it could have been just from the trash, since it was back there for 14 or 15 days, or how many days that car had been locked up with 90-degree weather. Could that also smell like the other decomposition you’re talking about? Yeah. It’s possible. I don’t know. That’s a tough one.
And then again, the human mind or human smell plays tricks on us from time to time. But it wasn’t what I was worried about it being. It wasn’t.Q It wasn’t?
A It wasn’t what I was — let’s put it this way. Neither my daughter or my granddaughter were back there, so I’m thankful for that.
So in the state deposition we see George reaffirm that when he went to open the trunk he was fearful that Casey’s or Caylee’s body would be in the trunk. He reaffirms that it smelled like human decomposition, which he has previously smelled when he worked as a homicide detective. But when pressed, he reverts to the “I think it was the trash” story based solely on this logic…”let’s put it this way. Neither my daughter or my granddaughter were back there…”
Okay, let’s pretend for a moment we could believe that George made that mental leap of faith standing there in the impound lot – voila! the trunk is empty ergo stink is trash! – one problem George has pushing that in his August 2009 deposition is 5 months after the impound lot and almost 8 months before the state deposition his granddaughter was found skeletonized in a swamp down the street from his home! One would think that an experienced homicide detective would flash back to that scene, and note that those two dots make for a relatively straight line! But we actually can’t give George that benefit of the doubt in the first place, because George as much as admits in his 07/24/08 interview with OCSO that HE pushed the “pizza story” to Cindy because SHE was concerned about the smell.
Oh, after we pulled inside the garage she said, her exact words were, “Jesus Christ what died?” That’s exactly what she said. But then she said it in a way, she says, “George, it was the pizza, right?” And I said, “Yeah (affirmative), it was the pizza.” And that’s what I left it go at that, but. I’m sitting here as a grandfather, as the father, as George Anthony and as a guy who smelled the smell before years ago and you just never forget it. I even stuck my nose down on it and I’m, I’m concerned. So…
Note that Cindy was not at the trunk when the trash bag was discovered and she could not have had knowledge of any alleged pizza without George first telling her that. And there are no logical ways to insert George bringing up the pizza without being wrapped inside an excuse for why the car was stinking.
George reasserts that Cindy equated the smell to death when discussing the odor in his 08/05/09 deposition:
Q Have you in the past — and I’m looking for a specific reference, but I’ll just ask it generally this way — made statements where you have indicated to law enforcement or other individuals that — that it wasn’t garbage, that the smell of garbage and human decomposition are very different, you could tell the difference, and this was not from garbage?
A I possibly could have. I don’t remember. It’s possible.
Q Do you recall telling your wife that — anything to the extent that it smelled like something died in here?
A I think not only did I make the reference, but also she did, too.
Q She did, too. And when did that happen?
A I think specifically after we got the car home, or she could smell it when we were leaving the towing service.
Q What did she say about that?
A I don’t remember exactly what she said at the towing yard except the car stinks like hell. I mean, I remember driving it home, it was starting to rain, and after we got it inside our garage and –
Cindy also states in her July 29, 2009 deposition with the state that George is the one that told her about the trash bag:
Q Okay. I take it then that you never saw this bag of garbage in anyone’s car?
A No. My husband told me that there was garbage in the back of Casey’s car. I never saw it.
BY MS. DRANE BURDICK:
You had said that your husband told you there was a bag of garbage where?A In the trunk of Casey’s car.
Q Okay. That’s what George told you?
A That’s what George told me. I didn’t see it because I was still over at the window. And by then I was probably getting into my. car. I didn’t see him until he came around. So I didn’t see that because I could not see where they were at.
Q … that there was a rotting pizza in the trunk with maggots.
A Yes.
Q Did you ever see that?
A No. I didn’t. But that’s what my husband told me. Because he said when the trunk of the car was opened up, there was flies that flew out of the car and there was maggots. There was a pizza box and there was maggots in it. And the gentleman tossed it over into the — the trash.
Q Okay. When did you first have contact with the car that day — I’m sorry — July 15th of –
A When we arrived back home. Because we — I followed George back home from the tow yard, which is less than two miles from our house. I followed him
back home.Q Okay. At that point, did you have any knowledge that there was a smell in the car?
A Yes. I knew there was a smell in the car when George pulled around from — while we were still at the tow yard, when he pulled around. He had his
window down and he said: The car stinks. And I said: Okay. So I followed him and went home. When we got home, naturally you could smell it.Q Are those the exact words he used?
A I think so.
Q The car stinks?
A Yes. I mean, I can’t say the exact words, but he said: The car stinks.
Q All right. [Pause] Your first — one of your first thoughts was that that pungent odor smelled like a dead body?
A No. My first thought, when George told me there was garbage rotting and I realized how long the car had been sitting out in the open sun, I figured it
was the garbage. I still at that point had no idea or even thought that it could be anything else.Q Did George tell you what he thought?
A Not at that time. No.
Which is a curious answer…tending to imply that at a later point in time he DID share with her what his thoughts were.
Q Do you remember saying or asking George that — whether or not the smell was from the garbage? Like, confirming with him?
A No. Actually, he told me what the — the manager at Johnson’s said. Because when the manager opened the trunk of the car, George told me that the man reached in and he goes: Ah, here’s the cause of your smell. Reached in and grabbed the bag and then threw it in the Dumpster, which was right next to Casey’s car.
So, in this particular instance George is the one that pushes an explanation to Cindy. He either conveys it to her prior to them driving off the impound lot, or as soon as they arrive at the Anthony home and she comments on the smell. Now, with it being established that George pushed the pizza theory to Cindy as a way to not have to say – Yeah, it smells like a dead body – let’s see what George has to say when pushed further as to whether he contacted police. The state prosecutors are now asking him about AFTER he has arrived home with the car:
Q Your granddaughter has been unaccounted for well, you had not had contact with your granddaughter for 31 days. You find your daughter’s car towed with a smell at least consistent with human decomposition, in your mind; correct?
A Is it possible? Yes.
Q Possible. All right. When you got home, did you discuss with Cindy calling the police?
A No. Not at that point, no.
Q Did you, yourself –
A Did not.
Q — put those facts together and generate a concern about the safety of your granddaughter?
A No. Because Cindy said she was going to handle it. I was upset with Casey. I said: I want to know where she is. She says: George, I’ll handle it.So that was the extent of that conversation.
So there you have it. George completely ignores the fact he has already stated in this same deposition (as well as in his July 2008 interview) that he had connected the smell in the car with his daughter or granddaughter’s body and he has admitted that he is the one that pushed the pizza explanation of the odor to Cindy. When pushed again about whether he took any APPROPRIATE action based on the possible connection between his missing granddaughter and the odor in the car he answers with something that can only be logical on backwards day…
No – I didn’t make that connection because Cindy said she was going to handle it.
George – you already made that connection. You just passed something to your wife to avoid discussing your concerns. What is Cindy going to handle?
Now, the last thing I’d like to visit concerning George’s statements about the odor of the car is an interesting slip??? George has during the civil deposition with Morgan & Morgan on April 9, 2009. On page 87, Mr. Morgan states:
MR. MORGAN: We’re getting ready to go into a whole set of questions about the trunk, the smell in the car, and that’s where we’re going next, and so we have to tell you that because we have to do that.
George’s response is:
THE WITNESS: You’ve already done that. You’ve already asked that question.
MR. MITNIK: No, I didn’t. I didn’t.
THE WITNESS: Yes, you did.
MR. MITNIK: I didn’t ask that question.
THE WITNESS: You asked about the smell in the trunk of the car. You asked about me walking to the of the car. You already asked me about that.
MR. MITNIK: Actually, actually, I asked you about your daughter blocking you going to the trunk.
So George objects to Mr. Morgan raising the odor issue again because he contends that Mr. Mitnik (who had previously been questioning George) had already asked him about that issue. Mr. Mitnik takes issue. Let’s see who is correct…on page 60:
Q okay. Your daughter, during the time that your granddaughter was missing, came into the house while you were there; is that right?
A on one occasion, yes, I can think of.
Q okay. And you at that point in time attempted to go into the trunk of her car; is that right?
A I’m not going to answer that.
And she blocked you from getting into the car?
A I’m not going to answer that.
MR. MITNIK: So if I ask did she basically run to the car and get in it and slam it down before you could get into the trunk, he’s not going to answer any of those questions?
MR. CONWAY: He’s not going to answer those questions here today on videotape.
And there you go, that is the extent of the questions Mr. Mitnik had previously asked George about the June 24th, 2008 gas can incident. George was NOT asked anything about a smell in that series of questions. But in George’s mind, later in the deposition, he is equating this previous line of questions about the 24th to being asked about the smell in the trunk! Did George smell something on June 24th?
…things that make you go hmmmm.
Valhall.
Related posts:
- The Anthony Encycliepedia: George comes home
- The Anthony Encycliepedia: George and the gas can
- The Anthony Encycliepedia: George talks about Imaginanny
- Caylee Anthony case: Defense moves to have trunk smell excluded
- The Anthony Encycliepedia: Cindy lies to John Allen
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