The Anthony Encycliepedia: George comes home
This is the first installment of what will probably be a long string of articles on the inconsistencies that have plagued the official statements of the Anthony family. I have chosen to name it the Anthony Encycliepedia…because it basically will constitute a compendium of…lies! I will be creating a new page in the Library that will contain links to all Encycliepedia entries, for research. There will be an entry for each “topic of lie-age”…so to speak. I will only pull from the interviews and depositions. But I look forward to the Hinky readers contributing in the comments with conflicting statements on a given topic that they find in media interviews.
The first topic I have chosen is about George’s account of when he arrived home on July 15th, the night the 911 calls were made and all hell broke loose. Now, you may think, what’s so important about George’s account of coming home? Very good question! The importance of this first topic is to show HOW the Anthonys (in this particular case I’m talking about Cindy and George) “operate”. There has been a long standing opinion that Cindy controls what George says. While I can’t really argue the validity of that statement, I can offer the following to show that George also is very adept at influencing Cindy. They have achieved liar-symbiosis…again, so to speak. And we will see this two-way “effect” in future topics addressed in the Encycliepedia.
So let’s look at what George has to say about arriving at the Anthony home on July 15, 2008.
In George’s July 24, 2008 interview with OCSO, beginning on page 19, George tells of arriving home that night.
I got home at ten minutes to ten. That’s when my wife was standing outside, walking, pacing back and forth in the driveway. The car’s still inside the garage. And my wife fell apart. She said, “George, we lost her. We lost her.” And I said, “Lost who? Lost who?” She said, “Caylee, Caylee.” And I said, “What’s going on?” I didn’t, I didn’t even know at that time that my daughter was even home.”
George elaborates more on the dramatic scene that occurred in the driveway of the Anthony home in his August 5, 2009 deposition with the state, beginning on page 245:
I pull directly behind Cindy’s car and I see Cindy out outside of our garage pacing back and forth. Step out of my car: Hey, what’s going on?
And that’s when she told me that Caylee was missing; Caylee had been taken. And she said someone by the name of Zanny had her and Casey was inside with Lee.
Q Did at that moment, did the smell of the car come into your thought process?
A No. It didn’t. It didn’t. All I wanted to do is hold onto Cindy. I’m holding onto her. She’s falling apart in my arms. And I wanted to go in and see Casey. It wasn’t probably five minutes, I don’t know how many Orange County Sheriff’s Department people — I’m getting ahead of myself for a second.Before me going into the house, I asked Cindy if she called the sheriff’s department, if she made a report. And that’s when she told me she had made three different reports, one to the Orlando Police Department, I think two to Orange County, and — and they should be arriving any time. And I told her: That’s not good enough. We’re calling them again.
And it wasn’t maybe five minutes, something like that, next thing I know is I think we had maybe three, four, maybe five sheriff’s deputy cars out in front of our house.
Q Did you go in and try to talk to Casey?
A I tried to. But like I said, everything happened so quickly. The sheriff’s department is there. I maybe had maybe ten minutes with my daughter, if that, that night.
Okay, so when we look at these two accounts of George arriving home on the night of the 15th, we see that the three 911 calls have been made, George thinks they should call again, but within 5 minutes (which was more than ample time to make another 911 call) the police arrive.
But there is a problem here. We have the audio of the third 911 call made by Cindy. In this last 911 call we clearly hear that George has walked into the home while Cindy is on the phone and Cindy begins to hysterically yell information to George on what has transpired. There was no driveway incident, there was no pacing Cindy, and there was no “we’ve lost her” out in the Florida twilight. Further to that, George had to have known that Casey was there (contrary to his July 24th statements…which are also contrary to his August 5, 2009 statements, which makes it a contrary of a contrary which may actually either make something true, or create a wormhole in the driveway of the Anthony home) because in this same exchange is when Cindy tells Casey that the operator wants to speak to her and Casey attempts to refuse to speak to the operator….right there, in front of George.
George also sticks with this same story in his answers during the civil deposition on April 4, 2009, beginning on page 52:
Q were you present, by the way, during any of the 911 calls that your wife –
A No.
Q — made?
A No, I was not.
Okay, so George is firmly sticking with all three 911 calls have been made by the time he gets home. He’s stating in three separate sworn statements…I wasn’t there during the 911 calls.
Now, on July 29, 2009, Cindy was deposed by the state. In this deposition Cindy tells of the dramatic scene in the driveway.
Q Did George come home between the time you made that last 9-1-1 call?
A I had already made the last 9-1-1 call and then he came home.
Q And then the police arrived; is that the correct order?
A Yeah. I think he had just pulled up, as I remember, going back out. Because I heard a car pull up and it was George’s, and I thought it was the sheriff’s department. And I remember coming out in the driveway, and he goes: What’s going on? And I told him that Caylee was missing. I was in the driveway and I — I kind of almost collapsed in the driveway.
Q What did he do?
A He ran over to me and grabbed me. And he says: What do you mean? And I told him what Casey had said.
So there you have it. Cindy has backed George’s statements up. He was NOT there during any of the 911 calls. He arrived as she frantically paced in the driveway and caught her in her moment of collapsedness…again, so to speak. Anyone who has thought that the male voice they heard in the background of the third 911 call, the person that Cindy was hysterically screaming a “recap” of the evening’s events to was George needs to notice…it could not be George. Not according to George and Cindy. Now, I’m real unclear who would be arriving in the middle of this chaotic scene that Cindy would need to be frantically updating, but apparently – we’re all wet behind the ears thinking it was George.
Or are we?
From Lee’s deposition with the state on July 30, 2009, page 155:
Q Let me stop you for a second.
A Sure.
Q Your dad home at this point?
A Yes. He is home.
Q All right.
A He got home right when my mom was making that second 9-1-1 call. [NOTE: Lee repeatedly refers to the third 911 call as the second because it was the second call made from the Anthony home while he was there.]
But let’s back up a few pages to see what Lee states about the second 911 call made from the Anthony home:
Q Did you hear any of that 9-1-1 call?
A It was in the background because she called in the living room…
hmmm
Somebody’s lying!
Valhall.
Related posts:
- The Anthony Encycliepedia: George and the gas can
- The Anthony Encycliepedia: George and the smell
- The Anthony Encycliepedia: Dominic Casey and the psychics
- Is the G-String George Affair what was delayed?
- Zenaida? Benhaida? George the Gigolo?
Tags: 911 calls, casey anthony, caylee anthony, cindy anthony, george anthony, july 15, lee anthony
438 People have left comments on this post
Hey Val…
Oh goody, I am so glad you decided to start listing the “Anthony’s Lies”….It will probably wind up being longer than the dead sea scrolls by the time you are finished with it….
I also think it would be great to go line by line regarding ALL the” video and audio lies” of what has been said by say Cindy ( in her thousands of “celebrity-media-ho-ing-appearences” ).. ie…listed by category…
For example:..Regarding zanny….” I knew about her for at least 5 years ” (date)….” I really think zanny was made up..”(date) …. ” I think zanny is really Amy or Jesse”(date)….. “there must be a “zanny if zanny had a dog” (date)….”zanny must be real because caylee said she had a dog and caylee is a person “(date)…. blah blah blah
ivoire
Hi Val….TYPO
…”.right ther, in front of George.”
ivoire
P.S….When will the water report analysis be finished?
This is an epic undertaking. I hope you see the light of day while it is still Summer. (joke)
Val, can I ask how much leeway the Anthonys will be given in court on various accounts (such as this one)? What I mean is, when someone is in a highly excited state, confusion in memory happens. The basis of their conversation remains the same (Caylee has been missing for 31 days and Casey knew it) even as some of the details (where they were standing and when) vary.
Is it going to matter where they were standing, at what point during the 3rd 911 call George arrived, and the fact their memories of that very traumatic hour or so is sketchy? Or will the SA just use the real ‘meat and potatoes’ of the matter (confirming Casey knew Caylee was missing and did not inform them at any point during the 31 days)?
Or will the SA use every tiny detail to discredit George and Cindy? Is it to their BENEFIT to discredit them, as some of their testimony seems to me to be extremely important.
I still struggle to see some of their accounts as outright lies. Some clearly are, but some, in my mind, are simply honest errors in memory.
Love reading here. Such wonderful, thoughtful, insightful posts, and always wonderful comments on them. Keep up the good work!
Ivoire: “…longer than the dead sea scrolls.”
HAhaha. Gargantuan undertaking? Hell to the yes.
May the force be with you Val. The lie-pedia might be done by trial time if you spend every waking (and non-waking) minute furiously compiling each and every lie.
I salute you for your effort.
PonderingWhy said: { Jun 5, 2010 – 10:06:21 }
This is just the beginning. No, I don’t think the SA would nail a set of grieving grandparents for one or two inconsistencies in the big picture. But taken as a whole there is a … shall we say … PATTERN that cannot be explained away and should not and MUST NOT be ignored.
It tells a very important story.
Ivoire: “…longer than the dead sea scrolls.”
And just as hard to decipher. Awesome post Val and a great place to start.
this is what’s gonna take place during trial, i presume. very useful for the Pros, i’d think. in the example chosen, it demonstrates coaching between C&G. and is a material fact that they’ve altered. useful enuf to charge w/perjury….every instance is like a building block. thanks Val! sure should keep ppl busy – good summer hinky-ites project!
Sierra said: { Jun 5, 2010 – 11:06:24 }
I hope the prosecution uses it to the fullest. It will only be effective if there’s a building block approach. First time one of them is called on an inconsistency the jury might think, huh, well, chalk it up to their shock and upset.
But then one by one, as the mis-truths are revealed and it is shown they were coordinated, the jury will become angry, hardened and unforgiving.
By the time the Anthonys are dismissed – they’ll be less than zero.
Even with the shock and confusion you should be able to remember if you were in the house or outside in the driveway, if you were present for the call or if you were not. In my opinion the Anthonys will not be charged with anything. However, it is very interesting that they choose to misrepresent even the smallest of details. Good luck Val, it’s quite a project.
» MitchK said: { Jun 5, 2010 – 11:06:30 }
“Even with the shock and confusion you should be able to remember if you were in the house or outside in the driveway”
I agree. As a matter of fact, usually you remember with *heightened* clarity certain shocking events.
To this day I remember the exact moment I heard JFK was shot. I remember who told me, where I was standing, what the weather was like, what the air smelled like, what time of day.
I remember the exact moment I heard about the 911 bombings. Which drawer I was reaching into when the phone rang and I picked it up to hear a friend’s freaked voice urging me to turn on CNN.
Emotional memory can sear certain details into your mind and body forever.
Jenny B
I agree with u, when going thru an event such as this u tend to remember what is happening. It is the fight or fight, u become more aware of your enviroment. They smelled the car, they found there daughter, but not there granddaughter. This would have cause a heighten awareness of what was going on around them. I hope this makes sence I am still crying over the vedio that MIMI made about the oil spill.
George is also the one who reassured Cindy it was rotting pizza that caused the smell. Cindy was not present when George opened the trunk. Cindy was unaware that there was only a very piece of pizza and the boxes were empty.
OMG you never cease to amaze . . . excellent idea. I cannot wait for the lies about knowing who the kidnappers were . . . and that they were being watched by the Anthonys . . . and that Caylee was being moved around . . . God have mercy on their souls if they have one.
Really great post Val, I can not wait for the next installments. There is one place that can be checked to further shed some light. That evening, supposedly Cindy said that she continually called George’s cell phone to try to get him to get home and he was not answering his cell phone. There should be some tracks within his cell phone records, and hers too.
You may remember where you were when JFK was shot, but would you remember events as clearly if you stood there watching your own child (god forbid) get shot? I would guess the bigger picture would never leave your memory, but could you tell me what your other children were wearing that day, or the exact words the paramedics said? Probably not. That’s why I’m asking about what will REALLY be useful in court.
Certainly it’s interesting and useful to see the bigger picture when it comes to what has been said and how things changed, but I think in court some of the details we consider ‘lies’ will just be considered ‘faulty memory’ if they’re considered at all.
» sierra said: { Jun 5, 2010 – 11:06:24 }
this is what’s gonna take place during trial, i presume. very useful for the Pros, i’d think. in the example chosen, it demonstrates coaching between C&G. and is a material fact that they’ve altered. useful enuf to charge w/perjury….
**********
Nothing said in that conversation is going to result in perjury charges. And frankly, the change in their statements DON’T necessarily demonstrate ‘coaching’. If (god forbid) this happened to your family, wound’t you sit down and talk about it? And in the course of that conversation wouldn’t it be entirely likely (or at least possible) one of you would say, ‘Oh yeah…you’re right. I DID happen like that’?
I think the defense would have no problem at all in reminding a jury memories can be faulty as it applies to THIS conversation (others, not so much). These two people were thrown completely for a loop, they were trying to figure out what the hell just happened, and I’d be MORE astonished if they had remembered everything perfectly from the get-go.
Pondering,
I have no idea what the SA will use. I would doubt they’d waste time on this particular inconsistency, but I do not agree that this is a slight memory lapse. This is indicative of what we see in George, Cindy and Casey.
Let’s review…you walk in, your wife is on the phone, your son and daughter are there, your wife starts screaming I’VE CALLED THEM 3 TIMES…ZANNY TOOK CAYLEE!…your daughter is getting on the phone in front of you and saying “I haven’t seen my daughter in 31 days…by the way, do you have tony’s number?”
And you completely reinvent that moment into…
Cindy was pacing in the drive way and I said “what’s wrong” and she said, “We’ve lost her!” and she collapses (like a bad scene in a B-rated TV movie on Lifetime) into your arms and you are there – Superman…THREE TIMES IS NOT ENOUGH…WE MUST CALL AGAIN!
WTF???
gracie,
DON’T GET AHEAD OF ME! lol That’s actually the next installment – the smell. And it will show again how George intentionally affects Cindy.
Pondering,
Just read your last comment. To be clear, the Encycliepedia is not to compose things we may hear in trial, it is to document what a pack of liars they are and that they have some pretty bizarre mental things going on.
Fully agree they’ve lied about plenty of things, I’m just pondering what’s a ‘lie’ and what’s a fault of memory. Perhaps I’ve always misinterpreted what I heard on the 911 call, but I got the impression George had just walked into the house and was immediately hit by ‘We’ve lost her…”
I also had the impression George wasn’t listening to Casey while she was on the phone with 911, he was listening to Cindy. And Cindy was having an almightly freak-out (rightly so). Who the hell can think stright after that?
Maybe I’m far too lenient in attributing less henious motives to SOME of what they’ve said and done (certainly not all; I agree they’ve done things that just turn my blood cold), but I do think it’s too easy to call some things ‘lies’ when they could easily have been mistaken memories. I’m just looking at it with a fair bit of caution since there are many ways to interpret what they did and why they did it. Some of their behavior is crystal clear; some is not.
I agree with Valhall. It would be one thing if there were minor changes in the story; then maybe it could be explained away as forgetting, or blocking certain memories out. But to invent a completely different scenario, not at all similar to what really happen, and have two people tell that same story… screams LIE to me. JMO.
Well, I think this is where we have our disconnect Pondering…
“Maybe I’m far too lenient in attributing less henious motives to SOME of what they’ve said and done…”
I don’t think I’ve implied any “heinous” intent. I think they are:
1. sick
2. liars
That’s different.
And to one statement you made about “I also had the impression George wasn’t listening to Casey while she was on the phone with 911…”
That would absolutely not be the point. Go back up and read his conflicting statements. He first states HE DIDN’T EVEN KNOW CASEY WAS HOME. Then he states (still in the driveway) that he immediately asked where Casey was, Cindy told him, and he wanted to go talk to her.
Come to find out…she was right there in front of him.
There’s severe warpage in there some place….and it can’t all be attributed to faulty memory. It is the same thing we see in Casey and Cindy. The slightest incident gets a HUGE tale spun and attached to it. Detailed stories that never happen. It’s bizarre.
Well trying to list the Anthonys lies will make War And Peace look like a coffee table magazine. Someone mentioned The Dead Sea Scrolls It took the roseta stone to translate them Methinks we need a Roseta Stone the understand Anthonyspeak?
Fair enough, Val. It’s an interesting read, there is certainly a lot to be said about outright lies the family has told and the bizarre way they ‘circled the wagons’. I’ll just proceed with caution about interpretions of what’s a lie and what’s not. No harm done, not looking for agreement (I admit, I’m VERY cautious about assuming I know what someone’s intent might be).
Will be very curious to read more!
I know many people that lie to make themselves seem more important or successful. What I can’t get over is the lying for the sake of lying. This first installment shows their desire to spin everything that they are asked about. The scenarios are completely different. It’s not forgetting what they were wearing or if the neighbor was mowing his lawn etc. but driveway/living room, Cindy on the phone or pacing and collapsing. For whatever reason it seems relevant to them to keep the truth all for themselves.
I love this site! Thanks for doing this..I can’t wait to read more. How quiet George was during that 911 call after driving home that smelly car has always bothered me…not to mention his going back to work and Cindy grabbing a snack. I can’t wait until you get to June 24th..
This is great arduous work Valhall! TY so much. Can’t offer as much as these other great minds. but I do remember, somewhere it was said. after the car got home (stinking up the whole garage. laughing Lee) Cindy said to GA, It was the rotting pizza, right?
And GA said, ya, it was the pizza. When I 1st read that long ago, it told me. Cindy running the show. This was loooonnnggg before we saw their evilness shown in civil depos.
» ecossie possie said: { Jun 5, 2010 – 12:06:44 }
Well trying to list the Anthonys lies will make War And Peace look like a coffee table magazine. Someone mentioned The Dead Sea Scrolls It took the roseta stone to translate them Methinks we need a Roseta Stone the understand Anthonyspeak?
____________________________________________________________________________
Cindy Anthony : “Well, just because a word means something doesn’t mean the word means what it means ” ( or whaterver the F she blathered on about with her chronic case of -diarriah-of-the-mouth-syndrome…
Yep, the rosetta stone will definately be needed to decipher the cryptic lies of “Anthony-speak”…
ivoire
Val,
Great work. I love “in her moment of collapsedness”!!
Hey Val,
what about ALLLLLLL the blatent lies told by the EVIL TRINITY to frame others?….amy and ricardo are drug addicts…people are being watched… ricardo and amy are “zanny” ….. caylee was sighted in puerto rico, then she swung over to georgia, then she went to north carolina and then she was spotted at the IHOP in california ( stated on larry king live)….
how about cindy during her fbi interview when she was trying to “splain’ what went down, emphazing that it was really NO CONCERN that her daughter went awol ( she totally downplayed her SHEER TERROR to the fbi–like it was no big deal etc.)
you just have so much to work with…
lee anthony….. I think my sister lies just to lie…..I believe everything my sister says ( then I guess he will be admitting that he was sexing up his sister–ooohhh ick).
ivoire
Lies will be used by the prosecution if they have other evidence to explain those lies having been made to cover something else up that they can prove. That is how lies will be very useful as well as showing a pattern of strange behavior in the family.
(We all have this wonderful family instinct and intuition and we often finish each other’s sentences!)
George does not mention, for example, that he said, “Who’s Zany?” at the time that he came home and Cindy was on the phone to 911. I am sure I have heard it on the recording and LE probably has methods to make the recording clear enough for anyone to hear. So, since the A’s, at a later time, made statements about knowing Zany was sitting for Caylee…well, here would be a good example of lying to cover something up…to gain self worth (of COURSE we knew our grand daughter’s sitter!) and for Casey…(Of course she, as a good mother, had a sitter for her child and the kidnapper exists!) Very useful to the prosecution.
It’s a huge undertaking, Val, but it is very valuable and I know you’ll do a great job. It really doesn’t matter if the prosecution does not use every single contradiction or lie or even possible forgetfulness that the A’s displayed. The A’s were very kind to give them a wide variety of flavors to choose from and I know the prosecution will pick the ones they like the best.
Why does he lie about something that is so easily proven?
He should have killed Casey in those 5 minutes before the cops arrived.
I once had a friend who was a pathalogical liar. She would lie about anything and everything – usually to make herself seem important and in the know. However, very often she would lie about the most inconsequential things so I would believe her. Why lie about whether someone was wearing a blue shirt or a green shirt? For this reason, I would believe her. We haven’t been friends for a really long time because she created so much havoc among friends and neighbors. She was very distructive.
I would say that beginning with the first 911 call, the lies began. The first call should have been about the car and about the smell, finding Casey, and saying, “and my granddaughter is missing.”
While my family isn’t all american apple pie, I think that my siblings, parents, and I have a pretty good take on one another, even though we don’t even live in the same house anymore or states. The A’s, IMO, may have lived in the same house, but there’s a really eerie disconnect amongst them. You would think that Lee lived in a hermit hole (but I do think that he tried to sort out his relationship with his sister and family truthfully with LE). George acts like a joe jock stoner. Cindy, is a beyotch. Maybe it’s intentional to, in their eyes, “put on a great face” to the public, but it’s always seemed odd to me.
Thanks for the article, Val. Keep digging!
Valhall said: { Jun 5, 2010 – 12:06:30 }
Val, you are so funny!!! I thought that G&C had lied through their teeth… what I had not noticed is that they started minutes away from the third phone call. I guess that we should say:
“Like mother like daughter”… or would be more appropriate…
“Like father like daughter”….
You know what’s funny Val, they should had gotten their lies straighten up, they had time to do so. Go figure.
Lies run in the family. It’s a no no!!!
Valhall,
First let me say what a wonderful site you have made here. I always find your articles very interesting. I enjoy reading all of your contributor’s thoughts.
Your latest endeavor of documenting The Anthony’s Encyclopedia of Lies has forced me out of lurking.
I do believe George and Cindy are lying in this instance. I do not believe it is simply misremembering .
When someone misremembers something, if the truth is brought to their attention, either through words or in this case, a 911 recording, their recollection will undoubtedly be awakened.
George and Cindy have been on countless talk shows, this tape has been played. I would think that in their own search for “The Truth” they have listened and relistened to these tapes.
Why did it not jog their memories? When someone lies, and sticks to that lie, no matter what evidence is given /shown/played for them, -the question must be asked- Why are they so adamant in this lie? What are they hiding? What can be gained from continuing to lie?
Their 2-year-old granddaughter had been missing for over a month. They had just retrieved their daughters car, which held Caylee’s beloved Mama doll, her back pack, and her car seat. The trunk contained a stain, garbage bags, and a smell that was so atrocious, they had to air it out and drive with the windows open. They first described this smell as human decomposition.
Ask yourselves- in this situation, would you not throw caution to the wind, and tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth- caution, self preservation and embarrassment, be damned? The last thing on my mind would be protecting my daughter or myself.
It reminds me of the scene in the movie Parenthood, when the mom and dad are in the principal’s office talking to the counselor, and they first learn something’s up with their son. They begin trying to rationalize how this could have happened and whom is to blame- PP “She smoked pot while she was pregnant with him” You let them sit justlikethis in front of the tv screen…..”
In times of great stress and pain, we often times are the most truthful- with the Anthony’s it seems to be the opposite-
Mom of 3 – Great point.
Why did they assume the decomposition had anything to do with MOTY Casey?
Here you have the smell of death and the baby’s things in the car. You haven’t seen the baby in a long time. OMG! Call LE immediately. Don’t drive away from the tow yard! MOTY would WANT you to call LE right away… right? Right? She’s MOTY after all!
If it was UNPOSSIBLE for Casey to have anything to do with this, call the damn police!
“It’s the pizza, right George?
Denial my foot.
This is the start of the script.
LOVED IT!!!!!!!! always a good read here ! thanks again hinky
» PonderingWhy said: { Jun 5, 2010 – 12:06:33 }
“but would you remember events as clearly if …
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Thirteen years ago my son was on a work platform (Genie Lift) 60 feet in the air when it went off center and tipped over. He should have died in that accident, but survived due to his quick thinking. I wasn’t aware of the accident for several days. I remember VERY CLEARLY where I was and what was said when I received a phone call … My nine yr old grand daughter saying.. “Dad wanted me to call you. He needs to talk to you”, and then my son coming on the line, his voice breaking and then he was crying. This was nothing as nearly tragic as the Anthony’s went through, but I still have chills remembering that call. Whee your kids are involved I have no doubt the memory is quite clear, but these people are adjusting (lying their ass off) their stories.
val-thanks for the marelous post and a great review and comparison of the lies. Let the games begin or rather Let the lies continue. I am a full fledged Hinky addict who has stopped reading books-How about a couple of all nighters to give us the next in the series?
While George was still at work Cindy allegedly tried to call him (allegedly went to voice mail) . Lee finally got through to him and just asked him when he would be home. (Based on Georges statements) If all of this was going on at the home (911 calls, baby missing, death smell) would Lee have just asked what time are you coming home? What was going on with the rest of the family in the time it took George to get home?
This will be a great and mighty task!
George was well aware of what was happening, if the story of his call to Lee – asking him to go to the house is to be believed.
Early on it was quite easy to see George’s discomfort every time he told a mistruth – “KC is a daughter any father would be proud to have” damn near put him under the table. No doubt he ran to bathroom to throw up every time he had to say that lie.
The business of unanswered phone calls from Cindy, after he smelled “that smell” and prayed to God it wasn’t his Caylee – who does that? Job be damned, there was all hell breaking loose at his house.
And there is the “KC carried Caylee to the car” vs “Caylee ran to me and hugged me and gave me a kiss good-bye” vs “I carried Caylee to the car and put her in her car-seat” Do they even know the truth of that evening anymore or have they told so many fabrications or “mistruths” that even they no longer remember.
Good Luck and remember to take a break for your own sanity!
» jennyb said: { Jun 5, 2010 – 03:06:21 }
“It’s the pizza, right George?
Denial my foot.
This is the start of the script.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
That’s why some of their lies sound so lame and we can’t figure out the advantage of their telling them. They KNEW something was wrong but they didn’t know, for sure, WHAT…but they knew it was really bad and they knew Casey was in the middle of it. They tried to anticipate what LE’s questions meant; in their minds before answering questions in fear of answering in a way that would implicate Casey while they, themselves; were quickly coming to their own private conclusions that she WAS guilty of some terrible thing involving Caylee. They began second guessing and answering as they thought would be appropriate rather than telling the truth. They knew, from prior experience, that the truth was going to lead straight to Casey. Also, they wanted to find out what was going on themselves…so it was kind of splitting their brains into two thinking parts at the same time. Appear sincere and cooperative and answer LE as they thought would correctly lead LE away from Casey and all the while trying to gather their own information so they could fix whatever it was before LE found out what had happened before they did. They were literally having a race with LE for information, IMO.
» Marica said: { Jun 5, 2010 – 04:06:30 }
************
I do hear what you’re saying Marcia, and I’m glad your son is ok. Very respectfully and with great compassion for the trauma that must have caused you, may I just say, I think the two situations are somewhat different in that your son WAS ok when you got the call, and Caylee was NOT ok when the Anthonys became aware of her being missing. They spiraled down into an absolute nightmare (every parent/grandparent’s worst nightmare, really, unless you’re the parent who dunnit). Their nightmare did not end when the phone call ended. It got worse by the hour.
I DO get that they lied and lied and lied; there is no doubt about it. I’m just a bit more cautious about WHAT I am willing to call a lie and what I’m not willing to call a lie. It really is that straightforward, and does not intend to say they did NOT lie. They did. I’m just not sure this PARTICULAR scenario involves a lie. That really is all I mean to say, and I await further installments with great interest.
I could be wrong. It’s just how I interpret what I’ve read and heard.
Oh and PS, of course George and Cindy often guess wrong on what should be said and this the frequent changes in answers and story. When they finally got up to speed on what LE was aiming for…they had to readjust their stories. Sometimes they told different versions but, not being sarcastic…Cindy WAS busy and George was, too. How often did they have the energy to get their mutual ducks in a row? Apparently not often enough.
In short (as if I’m ever short), it boils down to intent, in my mind. I’m not sure it was their INTENT TO LIE in this particular situation (meaning, they did not recognize what they were saying was untrue, even if it was). Without a doubt it was their INTENT to lie in lots and lots and lots of other situations.
Thanks JennyB- You’re right Why didn’t they call the police immediately? Why did they take the car home, clean it out, air it out, remove the battery- Then GO to work?
There is no possible way I could have done that- I would have been so sick with worry at that point. I do not even know if I could function, let alone-go to work.
I hope with Val’s new encycliepedia, she/we can make some sense out of their behavior. Because, to this point, it is a complete mystery to me.
PonderingWhy said: { Jun 5, 2010 – 04:06:26 }
Respectfully I don’t even understand what you’re saying.
It was their intent to lie in OTHER situations but not THIS one?
That’s quite a conjecture and how do you even know when they intended to lie and when they didn’t?
This is just way out.
- I agree we shouldn’t rush to judgment-Someone earlier, wrote that we do not know if their intent was to lie- true, we don’t know- but we also don’t know what their intent is at all, ever. Cindy said it was never her intent to obstruct justice by giving LE the wrong hairbrush- but we do know what effect these mistruths, no matter the intent, have on Casey’s case and Caylee’s justice.
And can we please pull the compassion card out of the deck for a bit?
I’ve been reading but not commenting on the Joran thread and everyone seems to want him tortured in some Peruvian jail.
Gee, I’m a big old meanie because I call it as I see it with the Anthonys (no compassion!) and yet I get sick thinking about any incarcerated human being living in unbearable situations.
Let’s have a little consistency here.
Great idea Val – and I agree it might be an undertaking you may regret after typing your fingers to the bone. One thing I don’t get – and cannot even speculate about – is MOTIVE behind some of the lies. Some I get – some I don’t. Like this one. WHY would George and then Cindy lie about this detail? It doesn’t gain anybody anything?
That may be why on some of these early early ‘lies’ – I might be more inclined to chalk it up to faulty memory due to the stress of the situation. If I understood a motive behind some of them – then I could change my mind.
I prefer to play cards with a full deck.
In fact George’s memory is very “faulty” and he contradicts himself in the space of seconds in the July 24/08 OSCO Interview. Just after he describes the scene he arrived home to (the one in which he states he didn’t know Casey was there) he relates a call he made to Lee earlier the evening (about 8:30 pm) of June 15th. On page 19 …” And I said Hey Lee, is everything ok? He said, Yeah (affirmative). Mom just pulled in here with, with Casey. I said, is Caylee there? Dad just get home as quick as you can. That was the extent of our conversation.”
In that interview the officers repeatedly suggest he should listen to the 911 calls which are about to be made public.
Pondering,
Maybe this will help. My first statement in my article…
With it being clearly stated that the Encycliepedia is to document INCONSISTENCIES, I think it’s clear that I’m not trying to assign INTENT, but record where they can’t keep their stories straight.
Whatever the INTENT was, George…and then Cindy…chose to tell a whopper about George’s arrival home. They forgot to let their son in on it, and the 911 audio proves the inconsistency…in this case, I think LIE is more appropriate because they have both been consistently FALSE in their telling of this particular event.
P.S. And that does not conjecture INTENT anywhere. The facts are…they lied.
Thank you, BrendaT! That was exactly what I was hoping for in the discussions for these topics is that others pull in things I missed. I missed that one! But the lies are so numerous, so prolific, so pervasive that I’m not sure all of them CAN be found.
Hi Val,
This is great stuff! This is the kind of stuff when I hear them interviewed, I’m thinking, that isn’t what you said before! lol
The 15th is a great place to start. I’m gonna go look, but I thought Lee said at some point. Dad called me to go over to the house. Mom is on her way home with Casey. We found her car today….etc..etc..
I think, according to Lee, George DID know Casey was home before he got there that night. Because he had called Lee to go over and told him Casey was with Cindy. I’ll see if I can find that. None of what they say makes much sense. George was asked if he talked to Casey that night. George said he only had about ten minutes with her, everything happened so fast. Well, ten minutes is plenty of time to discuss quite a lot! Unless they stood there staring at each other like idiots! lol
Anyway, look forward to your articles of inconsistencies.
Great work Val,
Your the best!
Pondering
” …INTENT TO LIE in this particular situation (meaning, they did not recognize what they were saying was untrue, even if it was)”
Talking about adults here, c’mon now. This is how you explain their lies?
a lawyer once told me that it can take less than a second to form intent
» bj said: { Jun 5, 2010 – 04:06:10 }
Lee very well may not know what death smells like. A lot of people don’t. But daddy and mommy sure did. Oh and Casey!
” And I said Hey Lee, is everything ok? He said, Yeah (affirmative). Mom just pulled in here with, with Casey. I said, is Caylee there? Dad just get home as quick as you can. That was the extent of our conversation.”
I wonder what caused him to ask about Caylee. (SMELL IN TRUNK) cause he now knows Mom and Casey are together.
BLESS YOU VAL!!!
No Val thank you! You have set yourself a gargantuan task! I can hardly wait for the smell of the car lies to come along. That July 24 OSCO interview with George sets a nice stage for that vignette.
Val — THANK YOU!!! Woohoo, here we go!
I probably won’t be able to lend anything important to the encyclipedia because I’m usually too busy assigning intent and rushing to judgment (especially where the Anthonys are concerned), however, I’ll certainly lend my useless opinion about all the lying.
The kind of Antho-nonsense you’ve captured in this kick-off article is EXACTLY why many people assign even more heinous behavior to them than they’re probably guilty of. Because normal, logical thinking, non liars want the “why did they lie about this?” question answered, dammit, and many folks have filled in the blanks using their own imaginations.
It goes something like this: If G, C and possibly Lee were lying right out of the gate about when George arrived home and what Cindy was up to at that precise moment the night of July 15th, then what were they trying to hide? Especially since they’d both smelled the death car earlier in the day and for reasons many can’t fathom … WENT BACK TO WORK, apparently after LOOKING UNDER THE PLAYHOUSE in the backyard and doing a little EVIDENCE TAMPERING with items found in the car and the car itself.
It’s not just their lies that evening — it’s their behavior that afternoon and much of the preceding month — that make those lies lend themselves to theories that other Anthonys were involved in the actual death and disposal of the baby’s body. I’m not in that camp, but it’s so easy to see why so many people are.
Thank you Val.
Pondering, I understand where you are coming from and bless your sweet heart for thinking that way. But I think we have to remember they had picked the car up earlier in the day and who knows what was cooked up between that time and the cops arriving. It just seems to me that everything went down hill from the very first sniff of that car.
jennyb said: { Jun 5, 2010 – 03:06:21 }
“It’s the pizza, right George?
Denial my foot.
This is the start of the script.
That’s what I am saying jennyb. 100%
» PonderingWhy said: { Jun 5, 2010 – 12:06:00 }
Fully agree they’ve lied about plenty of things, I’m just pondering what’s a ‘lie’ and what’s a fault of memory.
***
Exactly.
Jamie Lynn Realander claimed in a sworn statement that Friday, May 23 was the day she met Casey for the first time at Fusion where Casey was managing shot girls. Jamie Lynn said that was the night the pictures of Casey in the blue dress were taken. She said she was sure of the date because it was the same weekend she broke up with her boyfriend. Jamie Lynn’s memory, despite the “calendar anchor” of her break-up with her boyfriend, was wrong because all the evidence indicates Casey never went to Fusian until June 6. According to Amy, Casey and Tony didn’t meet in person until May 24. And the photos of Casey in the blue dress were taken on June 21.
Clint House claimed in a sworn statement that Casey stayed overnight at Tony’s apartment on the night of Friday, May 30. However, all the evidence indicates Casey planned to go to Fusian that night but did not see Tony at all, probably because Cindy stayed overnight with Shirley in Mount Dora because Alex was not doing well. Casey and Caylee stayed overnight on Friday, May 30 with Ricardo at JP’s condo. Clint House was wrong.
Matthew Crisp told OCSO in a sworn statement that he ran into Casey at Subway on July 7 around lunchtime. Crisp said Casey was not driving her own car; she was in a dark, late 1990′s SUV. Casey told him the car belonged to her boyfriend who was out of town. However, Tony had returned from New York on July 5, and he told OCSO that he had only allowed Casey to take his Jeep once to make a quick run to Target and that she had returned 20 minutes later with Target bags. IMO, Crisp ran into Casey between June 30 and July 5, not on July 7.
Chris Stutz said in a sworn statement to OCSO that he saw a female jogger who looked like Casey on the morning of July 15 and sent Casey a text message asking her if she had been jogging that morning. Stutz also testified that he ran into Casey at Buffalo Wild Wings around dinner time when she was in the company of Sean Daly and Iassen Donov. However, it was on July 14, not July 15, when Stutz sent the jogging text to Casey, and it was probably July 5, not July 7 when he ran into Casey, Sean, and Iassen at Buffalo Wild Wings.
I could go on and on pointing out false claims made by witnesses, and it’s my opinion that those witnesses were remembering incorrectly, not attempting to deceive. Just because witnesses believe their memories are accurate does not mean their memories are, in fact, accurate.
No one knows how memories are encoded, whether in a single unit similar to a mutli-sensory DVD with all the variables encoded in one location in the mind or whether different variables involved in the witnessed or experienced event are encoded in separate sections of the brain. One thing all memory researchers agree on is that memories are fragile and easily distorted by post-event information.
It’s well-known to the law enforcement and legal community that witnesses to the same crime can have significantly differing recollections of what they witnessed. And it’s equally well-known that witness memory can be altered by details of the crime that are reported in the news. For instance, a witness may have initially described the aggressor as not wearing headwear, but after reading a newspaper report that the aggressor was wearing a knitted, navy blue watchcap, the witness suddenly recalls the aggressor wearing a dark watchcap. Witness memory may also be altered during police interviews as information not previously reported by the witness becomes known to the witness, and the new information is retrofitted into the witness’s memory.
Confabulation is another trick of memory. Let’s say busy GP Dr. Jones has just finished examining an elderly patient, Mr. Williams. Immediately after leaving the examination room, Dr. Jones takes a call from a colleague and they briefly discuss a new drug for arthritis before Dr. Jones enters an examination room to see Mrs. Smith. A week later, Dr. Jones has a firm memory that Mr. Williams, who has arthritis, is taking the new drug Dr. Jones discussed with his colleague. Mr. Williams does not, in fact, take that new drug, but the two events (seeing arthritic Mr. Williams and discussing the new arthritis drug) happened so close in time and share the common link of arthritis that Dr. Jones formed a faulty memory that Mr. Williams is on the new drug.
As for what really happened on the night of July 15 in the Anthony house versus what George, Cindy, and Lee recall happening that night, I believe the accounts given by the three Anthonys, while not entirely accurate, are mostly correct. Moreover, I don’t perceive any motive to lie about the bits that are not accurate.
The bare-bones sequence on the night of July 15:
8:08p: Cindy called OPD while in car after trying to take Casey to Orlando City Police to have her arrested and finding that the neighborhood substation on 6207 Pershing Avenue was closed. She was told the substation is only open during the day and that her residence put her under the jurisdiction of OCSO. The call was transferred to OCSO (no record of that conversation has been released), and Cindy said she was advised to return to her home with Casey and then call OCSO again to tell them to send out a deputy.
8:30pm: Approximate time Cindy and Casey arrived at the Hopespring residence (I assume she was at the Pershing substation until a little after 8:15pm for the OPD and OCSO calls, then she drove to Hopespring, a 10-minute drive). Lee was waiting, having been called by George and asked to go to the house.
8:44p: After letting Lee take a shot at getting Casey to take them to Caylee, Cindy called OCSO and referenced the earlier call. She reported a three-year-old had been missing for a month and wanted an officer sent to her house to have her daughter arrested for theft of money and a car. In her ZG deposition, Cindy said the dispatcher said it was a non-emergency complaint, and it could take two hours for a deputy to get there. The dispatcher in the 8:44pm 911 call did not mention a two-hour wait but rather said, “We’ll have a deputy out to you as soon as one is available, okay? “ However, we don’t know what OCSO told Cindy when she was still at the Pershing substation because while we know the OPD dispatcher transferred Cindy’s 8:08pm call to OCSO, the OCSO portion of that conversation has never been released. According to Lee’s July 29 OCSO interview, Cindy went outside to make the 8:44pm 911 call to OCSO and then came back into the house, calling out in a loud voice that the cops were on their way and Casey would have to “prove it.”
According to Lee, Cindy kept walking in and out of the house after making the 8:44pm 911 call to OCSO, and she left the garage door up so that she could see LE arrive.
After Casey claimed Zanny had absconded with Caylee 31 days earlier, Lee told OCSO, “So at this point in time I was, I ran out to the kitchen, hoping to grab a pad and paper, you know, a pad and a pen so I could start asking my sister who, where, what, why, so I can already have this info kind of ready to go, or I could even start myself looking into it. And by the time I got back with the sheet of paper my mother had already called 911 again. That was that, you know, that other 911 ticket was released. Called it again to say, you know, she just admitted that you know she’s kidnapped. We have to find her, you know, whatever. When my mother is in the other room on that call that’s when I was sitting there with my sister with this pad and paper and saying ok, so give me something, you know. And then the first thing that I asked her is, “Where have you been staying?” I don’t know why I asked her that question first. It was just the, it was the first thing that popped in my mind.”
9:41p: A clearly panicking and crying Cindy called OCSO to report Caylee’s abduction a month earlier. The entire call lasted four minutes and 24 seconds (4:24).
George said he arrived home at 9:50pm and that OCSO had not yet arrived at the Anthony house; however, George arrived about 104 seconds into the third 911 call, so he arrived around 9:43p. Cindy called to George at 1:24 on the tape:
Dispatch: How long has she been missing for?
Cindy: I have not seen her since the 7th of June.
Dispatch: What is her date of birth?
Cindy: Um, eight, 8-9-2000–oh God, she’s three –she’s, 2005. George, Caylee’s missing!
George: What?
Cindy: (talking to George) Caylee’s missing! Casey said Zani took her a month ago. She’s been missing for a month….
Dispatch: Okay, I just, I need, I understand. Can you just, can you calm down for me for just a minute? I need to know what’s going on, okay? I’m gonna try and …
Cindy: (talking to the dispatcher) I need someone here so we can (inaudible, sobbing).
Dispatch: Is your daughter there?
Cindy: (talking to George, and he probably asked her if she had called LE) I’m on the phone with them!
Dispatch: Is your daughter there?
Cindy: (talking to dispatcher) Yes.
Dispatch: Can I speak with her? Do you mind if I speak with her? Thank you.
Cindy: (talking in the background, probably to George) I called them two hours ago, and they haven’t gotten here. Casey finally admitted that Zani took her a month ago. She’s been trying to find her.
Dispatch: Ma’am, Ma’am.
Cindy: (in the background) Casey, here’s the sheriff’s department. They want to talk with you.
Casey: (Inaudible)
Cindy: Answer the questions.
Casey: Hello?
Then at 4:10 on the tape, Casey said, “I think the officers are here.” That would have been around 9:45pm.
In George’s handwritten OCSO statement at 10:16pm on July 15, he wrote,
“Arriving at 950PM, my spouse was in our garage crying, upset & told me that Caylee Marie (our grand daughter) was missing, taken a month ago, by a person by the name of Zany. I inquired to my spouse about Orange County Sheriff being called, and I was told they were contacted at 830PM.”
That statement was written only 33 minutes after George arrived home, so it is probably accurate that Cindy was in the garage when he arrived.
The third 911 tape is 4 minutes and 24 seconds long (4:24). George arrived at approximately 1:24. The dispatcher asked to speak to Casey at 1:51. At 2:15 on the tape, Casey said, “Hello.” In that intervening 24 seconds, it seems very clear to me when listening to the tape that Cindy was walking through the house and carrying the phone (but not holding it to her ear) while she talked to George. Cindy did not hear the dispatcher call to her around 2:05 on the tape (“Ma’am, ma’am!”), and during that 24 seconds, Cindy’s voice has a distant quality.
http://www.entertonement.com/clips/bdpcpkbgng–Third-911-Call-by-Cindy-Anthony
In his 2008 OCSO statement, Lee said he was questioning Casey (who was sitting on her bed) when the deputy arrived. Lee: “Uhm, so you know, I was just taking down what I could but I couldn’t even get Tony Lazaro and Sutton Place written down on this pad of paper uh, before uhm, the officer, you know the first responding officer was, walked into the room and was, you know, and was kind of starting to question you know, my sister.”
That was clearly an erroneous memory, but Lee could have been conflating Cindy’s handing the phone to Casey to talk to the “sheriff’s department” with the arrival of the first responding deputy approximately two minutes later. Casey’s bedroom is in the front of the house, so Casey, sitting on her bed while talking to the 911 dispatcher, was perfectly positioned to see the squad car pull up, hence her comment to the dispatcher, “I think the officers are here.”
And if you listen to the 911 tape, at 2:48 Cindy can be heard very distantly saying, “I called them.” Cindy was clearly NOT in the same room as Casey when Casey talked to the 911 dispatcher. Cindy was in another room talking to George while Casey was in her bedroom sitting on her bed talking to the dispatcher.
IMO, Cindy probably WAS in the garage making the third 911 call when George pulled into the driveway. Immediately after he pulled up, she probably walked down the driveway toward him and it’s clear from the tape that she began to address him instead of the 911 dispatcher. IMO, when the dispatcher asked to speak to Casey, Cindy continued talking to George while she walked through the house to Casey’s bedroom so she could hand Casey the phone to talk to the dispatcher. The sound quality of Cindy voice on the tape supports that interpretation IMO.
Lee was in Casey’s room when Cindy appeared in the doorway to Casey’s room and handed her the phone saying, “Casey, here’s the sheriff’s department. They want to talk with you.” Lee may have stayed there and taken notes of what Casey was telling the dispatcher. Two minutes after Casey began talking to the dispatcher, Deputy Ryan Eberlin pulled into the driveway in his squad car, which is when Casey ended the 911 call. If Lee had been in the room when Casey talked to the dispatcher, they both would have seen the squad car pull up because Casey’s window faces the street.
For Lee, I believe those two events –Cindy’s appearing at the door saying ‘here’s the sheriff’s office, they want to talk to you’ and the arrival of the squad car two minutes later—became blurred in Lee’s mind and his recollection two weeks later was that his own interrogation of Casey was interrupted by the arrival of the deputy at Casey’s bedroom door.
As for Cindy’s denial that George was present when Cindy made any 911 call, I am keeping in mind that Cindy told reporters rather stridently on July 24 (the same day the 911 calls were released to the public) that Casey had never talked to a 911 dispatcher. It’s preposterous that Cindy (who HAS lied) would have lied so blatantly when proof that Casey HAD talked to a 911 dispatcher was already a matter of public record unless Cindy, when answering that reporter’s question on July 24, had truly forgotten that Casey had talked to the 911 dispatcher on the night of July 15.
As for George’s denial that he was present when Cindy made any 911 call, I am keeping in mind that he was not actually present when Cindy reported Caylee’s abduction to 911 and in the two minutes between George’s arrival home and the arrival of the first of four or five squad cars, Cindy was probably stressing to him that she had called 911 hours earlier and no one had responded. She can be heard on the third 911 tape telling George that she called 911 two hours earlier. And from the point at which George arrived to Cindy’s handing the phone to Casey 24 seconds later, Cindy was not actually reporting anything to the dispatcher. The only thing Cindy said into the phone when George was there was “I need someone here so we can (inaudible, sobbing).” That could have been to anyone.
And as I noted, my interpretation is that after George and Cindy met in the driveway, she began walking into the house to hand the phone to Casey. She wasn’t talking to the dispatcher during that walk; she was talking to George. If George was trailing behind Cindy when she handed the phone to Casey, then George wouldn’t have heard Cindy tell Casey that the sheriff’s department wanted to talk to her. 30 seconds after handing the phone to Casey, Cindy can be heard saying “I called them” in the distant background, so I would guess Cindy was talking to George in the living room. I also note Cindy was using the past tense in reference to calling LE. So if Cindy did not make it clear to George that the third 911 call of the evening was in progress when George arrived, he could well have believed he was not present for any of the three 911 calls.
So IMO, Lee’s testimony that Cindy was “in the other room” when she made the third 911 call could have been true at the beginning of her call to 911, but she could have walked into the garage while talking to the dispatcher, and she probably was in the garage when George arrived. Lee said she walked into the garage for the 8:44pm 911 call, so she could have done the same for the 9:41pm 911 call. She could have been pacing in the garage for all I know. Or she could have walked toward George when she saw his SUV pull into the driveway, and it appeared to George that she was pacing in front of the garage. There is a pause in the 911 call shortly after Cindy said George’s name, and George could have been hugging Cindy during that pause (when she said she was about to collapse). Lee probably was in Casey’s bedroom trying to get some information out of Casey when Cindy and George were outside. Cindy probably walked into the house from the garage to Casey’s bedroom to hand her the phone and then returned to the living room to complain to George about OCSO’s failure to respond promptly to a call made “two hours” earlier. From my perspective, it’s consistent with Cindy’s mindset that she would have been stressing OCSO’s non-response to her earlier 911 calls rather than acknowledge to George that she had only made her first true emergency report of the evening 90 seconds before he pulled into the driveway. George was probably correct that within five minutes of his arrival home about four or five squad cars had pulled up in front of the house.
All told, I find their testimony about that night is probably mostly accurate, and the bits that are not accurate are plausibly explained by the fact that it all happened within 4 ½ minutes in an atmosphere of panic and confusion. Most importantly, I don’t see what George, Cindy, or Lee have to gain by telling the inaccurate bits about the 911 calls and OCSO’s arrival.
For me, there is nothing about their testimony regarding where they were when the 911 calls were made that raises suspicions. Now if you want to talk about the contradiction between George’s claim in the summer of 2008 that Caylee was wearing white tennis shoes on June 16 (a claim Casey supported) and his claim in the summer of 2009 that Caylee was wearing white sandals on June 16 (a claim that Cindy supported), I will be the first to say the change seems extremely suspicious and I cannot fathom why George and Cindy were not questioned about the change in his testimony during their SAO depositions. When did George’s memory change and why did it change?
I still say/believe NO ONE in that family kept tabs on Casey OR Caylee. For a long time.
Oh, but like Cindy said, she figured she was with Casey, so why worry? LOL
Cindy called/ texted Casey several times during the “31 days” to no avail, yet she tells LE she was in contact with her EVERYDAY.
Lee said, he would hope Casey had someone watching Caylee. and giggles.
All this crap from them for almost 2 years now makes me ill.
They seem more concerned with putting up appearances of a “very close family” when it seems to me, they were the opposite! Very disconnected from each other.
What is anyone’s take on how the ANTS have been MIA from media tours since that woman spilled the beans on GA?
I do believe it was their intent to lie and I think Mimi is definitely onto something with her explanation of why.
Pondering – 25 years ago my son was taken by a stranger. The police got him back 45 minutes later. To this day, I can tell you what he was wearing, how every detail played out, the questions the police asked me, etc. NEVER did it even cross my mind to do anything other than be as helpful as possible as quickly as possible while trying to not be hysterical. When I think about that event, I can still feel the panic. I find it extremely hard to believe that they have that much confusion over this very traumatic time, but yet GA can supposedly remember June 15th perfectly…and it was just ‘normal’ day.
oops, June 16th.
Good information, Maura! It fills in a lot of data and makes clear movements.
And proves that neither George nor Cindy’s statements are true.
It’s pretty friggin hard to change a person on the phone, stomping toward Casey’s bedroom and screaming at you all the while into…
*screenwriter’s version*
Cindy’s sweat glistened in the Florida moonlight as she paced back and forth in the garage. George ran to her side…”What’s wrong?”
Cindy – with desparation in her eyes…
“We’ve lost her, George! We’ve lost her!”
“Who dammit, who!” (say it like Captain Kirk)
“Caylee! That evil Zanny person we have known for 3 years took her!”
Cindy collapses, sobbing and weak with worry (but not grief…just immense worry).
George catches her flabby-assed body and says…
“Have you called the police?”
“Three times, George! Three times.” Cindy wails.
“It’s not enough, dammit.” (say it like Bones this time)
Sorry…I don’t buy it.
In reading everyone’s opinion about what would, could, or should be remembered. The importance of the situation or whatever. I think first of all, we all agree that the Anthony’s did agree at some point they were going to cover for Casey to the best of their ability. The problem in my opinion, is before they discussed it, each of them started lying without first. Their stories never, or rarely matched the other. But what always struck me the most, since it’s been mentioned here about remembering details. In all the interviews with George, Cindy, and Lee, they talk a lot without actually saying anything. They all seem to remember things in great detail down to exact times, clothes, etc.. Except when asked a common sense question, one that everyone would normally be able to answer, they ALWAYS answer those kind of questions with, “I don’t remember” “I didn’t think of it” “It didn’t stand out to me” etc.. etc.. It’s a combination of the obvious lies witch they tell in great detail, and suddenly not being able to remember a very important common sense issue that when all linked together may not get them in “Trouble”, but it will ruin their credibility with a jury. Always talking about how close they are as a family. Yet never able to answer a question about each other.
One that sticks out in my mind is George during the bond hearing. He claims how close the family is. Then in the next breath, when asked if Casey ever left the country, George says; “Not to my knowledge”. I’m sorry but that statement alone, tells me this family was far from being even a little close. How can you not know, if your daughter who lives with you, ever left the country or not!? That is an absurd statement. Does Casey have a passport? The father says..”I don’t know?” ! There are many, many statements with this kind of absurd dialog from all of them. July 15th, the story Val begins with here. George remembers the exact time he got home, but his account of what happened changes? I’m sorry, not the moment you find out your granddaughter is “Missing”. A life altering moment. That moment is remembered probably forever if not at least the first couple of months. I think the prosecution will use all of their inconsistencies to ruin their credibility, and to prove their case. And they will be successful in my opinion.
I think it’s the amount of over-acting in the made-for-TV movie that has to been done to pull off a given scene – if it is acted out in accordance with George or Cindy’s version. This particular one would classify as ham-central.
Much akin to the scene that would be required to play George’s version of when he found out his lying, stealing, drop-out teenage daughter’s tumor was actually a 7 month symptom of being knocked up.
According to George the clouds parted, angels sang, he looked toward the heavens with tears of happiness streaming down his face and said…
“As God as my witness I’m by-golly friggin’ happy today! And to hell with the who the daddy is!”
*background chorus of “HALLELUJAH!*
@ Bob, totally agree! The family is and has been totally disconnected from the get go., inspite of what they tried to portray in interviews and to LE.
» Valhall said: { Jun 5, 2010 – 05:06:38 }
P.S. And that does not conjecture INTENT anywhere. The facts are…they lied.
Intent to deceive in telling a mistruth is what defines a lie.
Val -
BWA HA HA!
And I love the doubles:
“George, we lost her. We lost her.” And I said, “Lost who? Lost who?” She said, “Caylee, Caylee.”
Somebody get a script doctor stat!
Maura – thank you so much for that fabulous post. I don’t know how you keep all of this straight.
» Valhall said: { Jun 5, 2010 – 06:06:04 } Much akin to the scene that would be required to play George’s version of when he found out his lying, stealing, drop-out teenage daughter’s tumor was actually a 7 month symptom of being knocked up.
ROFLMAO
lol Jenni – Im getting an image of G in his cape and tights…here I come to save the daaaaaaaay.
It seems very simple to me….
George and Cindy are “misremembering” because they know that their actions make no sense…..
Their accounts of the time when George arrived home don’t allow much opportunity for family conversations. George is an ex-cop. Logically, he would want to question Casey about Caylee’s whereabouts, the smell in the car, etc., etc. He would want to question Cindy about what Casey had said, what Cindy had done, etc.
Conveniently, however, he arrived home to find Cindy unable to talk coherently (she collapsed in his arms, she’s falling apart) and didn’t get “more than about ten minutes” to talk to Casey the whole evening.
His account suggests that he walked into chaos and was unable to get any significant information. But, the facts indicate the opposite could have occurred — he arrived home as the 911 call was being made, and he knew a lot more before the police arrived than he’s willing to admit.
George’s written police stmt. July 15th @ 22:16p.m.
ON JULY 15, 2008 AT APPROXIMATELY 2005PM MY SPOUSE (CINDY) CALLED MY CELL PHONE. I IMMEDIATELY ATTEMPTED TO RETURN HER CALL, AND ONLY GOT HER VOICEMAIL. I CALLED OUR LAND LINE #, AND ONLY GOT HER VOICEMAIL.I IMMEDIATELY THEN CALLED MY SON, LEE TOLD HIM I WOULD APPRECIATE HIM CHECKING ON HIS MOM TOLD HIM BRIEFLY ABOUT CASEY AGAIN , AND MOM AND I ARE UPSET.
AT 2035 I FINALLY GOT AHOLD OF MY SPOUSE BY CELL, AND SHE ASKED WHEN I WOULD BE HOME. I TOLD HER I WOULD BE HOME ABOUT 10-10:30PM.
ARRIVING AT 9:50PM, MY SPOUSE WAS IN OUR GARAGE, CRYING UPSET & TOLD ME THAT CAYLEE MARIE (OUR GRANDDAUGHTER) WAS MISSING, TAKEN A MONTH AGO, BY A PERSON BY THE NAME OF ZANY.
I INQUIRED TO MY SPOUSE ABOUT ORANGE COUNTY BEING CALLED, AND I WAS TOLD THEY WERE CONTACTED AT 830PM.
…he doesn’t mention his hero role in his stmt.
..also, if “they were contacted at 8:30″—–he says he finally “got ahold of cindy at 8:35″ ——surely she would have said something to him at that time?
..after telling cindy he would be home at 10 – 10:30, what prompted him to be home at 9:50 instead?
super val, wow my head is spinning all ready – this will be FUN (right mason) to follow along with you – liars i say, all of them, my ex is still this way – he decides as he goes what you want to hear/know, thats how he’s always been, he lies because he can’t not, if that makes sense, he’s one of the best b#llsh#tters i know – sad that many people believe him – i wish i could record him having a conversation w/ me and you could enjoy yourselves trying to make sense out of it- very true reality, hard to understand to normal folk, they are what they are – 10 minutes, yes bob, what i would have discussed w/ her if she was my daughter – i believe this family knows exactly whats been going on w/ casey for a long time ….thanks val, back to reading
Well nobody ever said that George and Cindy do not have a flair for melodramatics:
On Broadway!
Les Miserables Anthonys
West Orlando Story
Wicked (lead role Casey Anthony)
The Postman Never Rings Twice (with a notice from the tow yard)
Phantom of (the) Orlando
Bad bad bad. I know.
As Scotty would say Dam it Captain Ye Cannie change the Laws of Physics .But the Anthonys sure give it a good try….
» EvertonF.C. said: { Jun 5, 2010 – 06:06:09 }
Good point and I assume that’s what is hanging up Pondering. I look it at differently. I don’t think they always know when they’re lying. So that’s what I meant by I’m not assigning intent. In other words, I wouldn’t begin to try to guess why they can’t just tell it like it happened. Maybe they can’t help themselves. Maybe they intentionally lied to cover up, make themselves look different than they really are, or whatever.
It reduces to…they lied. And in this instance, I think George lied first and Cindy followed along.
cindy was powerless to control kc any longer and knew it
cindy used the police as a tool to get kc to ‘finally tell the truth’
cindy was conducting her own investigation thinking that kc would come clean with where caylee was
cindy finally realized something, because in her frustrated 3rd call to the police she finally finally finally reported her two year old grandaughter missing (anyone else would have done that within the first 2 minutes after picking kc up at Tony’s if not from the tow yard upon the smell of decomp)
kc wasn’t showing any signs of being scared at all, she thought he could still manipulate her parents and quite possibly with her parents help manipulate the police as well
i think cindy was so used to catching kc doing shit and then cleaning up the mess for her that they both expected each other to do their part = kc would bullshit while cindy followed up the rear cleaning up the mess
that’s just the way i see it
» Maura said: { Jun 5, 2010 – 06:06:18 }
**************
Thanks, Maura. I know what I think in my head and my heart, but you put it into terms that stand up to scrutiny. I believe your account is correct, and I especially agree that LE does know people can swear to one thing when it’s clear something slightly (or vastly) different happened.
For those who remember every detail in picture perfect clarity during extreme stress, I say, count your blessings and I’m glad someone can! That is not my experience. My experience during an extended time of extreme fear and grief, I was probably able to recount 60% of the details accurately, and the rest was a blur. But that’s MY experience, and I can fully accept that others can remember 100% with pin-point accuracy.
My questioning what’s a lie and what’s incorrect memory doesn’t discount my perception of the value of these posts. It’s just my point of view, through my filter, and nothing more.
» Jennyb said: { Jun 5, 2010 – 03:06:22 }
Mom of 3 – Great point.
Why did they assume the decomposition had anything to do with MOTY Casey?
Here you have the smell of death and the baby’s things in the car. You haven’t seen the baby in a long time. OMG! Call LE immediately. Don’t drive away from the tow yard! MOTY would WANT you to call LE right away… right? Right? She’s MOTY after all!
If it was UNPOSSIBLE for Casey to have anything to do with this, call the damn police!
Let’s not forget that Cindy was texting with Casey and they were leaving voicemails during that 31 days, so when they smelled the car on the 15th, they knew it was not Casey, but they had to have had a hunch it was Caylee, yet Cindy told a co-worker that she had not called the police about the car smell because she wanted to give Casey time to explain everything to her.
This will be very interesting to map out these lies. I have a feeling that LE has already done so with everything that they have said on public record. But I bet that they went through this massive list of lies and highlighted the ones that really obstructed justice for possible prosecution. Example: when Cindy gave LE the hairbrush that she said was only used by Caylee, or perhaps the lies about the missing Winnie the Poo blanket that eventually was found at the crime scene. There are big lies and there are little ones. I hope that the big ones get prosecuted.
Also George remembering exactly what Casey and Caylee wore one month after. I can’t remember what my daughter wore yesterday. But I can today. But then again when she went missing I know exactly (THAT DAY) what she was wearing, where I was, and what I was eating and drinking. I remember the call to the 911. this was 3 years ago. I ain’t forget it yet and never will.
Oh no! I left out the Virgina Monologues
It’s funny now talking about July 15th. I’m listening to Lee’s police interview. Cindy has tried to make the car ride with her and Casey seem much more pleasant then what was originally told. Cindy even goes as far as to say, “Casey thanked me in the car after I called the police.” “Casey said she wouldn’t have been able to do it.” I have quite a few problems with that lie, and it is a lie. But for now, according to Lee, when Casey and Cindy got home on the 15th, Lee said it was obvious they were yelling and arguing because of how Casey got out of the car , saying; “You won’t even listen to me!” “Why do I even bother!?”….etc. Each family member has told a different story about the same time frames. They have also all changed their stories to match the other person’s story. The problem with that is, they all did it, and obviously without first checking with each other! lol The more I think about it Val, this new line of articles your going to write is a monster undertaking! This family has lied and changed stories about even the most ridiculous details. This will be a never ending quest! lol
Good luck Val!
ha your a pistol Lilly
LOL Thanks ecossie. I love your comments BTW!
Pondering, I understand what you are saying. I guess the question is if they lied or just remembered wrong. But, either way, the story they told is not exactly what happened. I don’t know what their motive would have been to lie about the order of events that happened immediately when George arrived home. And, we’re only talking about a two minute time frame. But, we know the story they told is not correct. We can hear George come home while Cindy is on the phone. So, I guess the real question is if George and Cindy have now listened to the tapes and read Val’s article, would they admit they were wrong? They wouldn’t admit they lied. But would they admit they erred and see and comprehend what actually happened? In the grand scheme of inconsistancies, this one is fairly easy to wiggle out of. And, if not, and they still stick to their version, then they are lying.
if any of you were in this situation, daughter/grand MIA for a month, picking up daughter’s towed car w/ really bad smell, driving it home while it smelled really bad, got it home, spouse tells you – no worries go on to work now – you go,check in w/ son – hey check on mom ok – hours pass, you receive several cell calls, try to get home soon, daughter now accounted for but no grand yet, … so you really just carry on like it’s a normal day? ho hum, gee boss, if it’s no biggie, maybe i could cut out a little early tonight, i got a slight problem at home …. well not exactly in order i think, but REALLY, who would do this – yes boss and job be damned …. you wouldn’t even go to work, he could have put his foot down w/ cindy and said enough is enough – really WHO would act this way????? if my cat was missing i wouldn’t even remember i had a job!!!!
Pondering….
It’s absolutely fascinating to witness two different people “misremember” things in almost the exact same way. Mass hallucinogenic memory warp, I guess.
Long story short – the accounts laid out by George and Cindy COULD NOT have happened in conjunction with the 911 audio.
The smell of death really is like no other. I think they decided together it would be best to go about their day, after Cindy cleaned things up a bit. Get on the ball and actively try to find Casey and go from there. Death is different. Yeah, no crap but they chose to ignore the smell.
The misremembering isn’t what bothers me but the synchronized lie between the two of them.
A bit of Topic but what if ??? George has been absent from Cindys side last couple of court Dates an Cindys been allegedly haveing face lifts ect .What if she also been haveing those hormone injections that allow older women to conceive,Cindys pregnant an DC is the father or some other dude besides George.Would explain the materety dress to court.Can you imagine next year Cindy in court with a Baby on her knee at Caseys trial?
I have to say that having listened to the 911 tape I think Maura’s explanation of events is most likely right.
Given that they had nothing to gain from lying about this sequence of events and actually most likely didnt have time to put together some sort of ‘cunning plan’ I think that the simplest explanation is most likely the right one.
» Lisah said: { Jun 5, 2010 – 06:06:01 }
I’m with you.
Ecossie Possie…. Surely its a sundress?
Ecossie, are you trying to give me nightmares? LOL
» ecossie possie said: { Jun 5, 2010 – 07:06:51 }
God forbid another child be raised in that home.
Maura- Wow! Your post was very thought provoking. I can see how in different circumstances, with different people, this explanation would be very plausible.
You brought up many instances with many people who had a faulty recollection of dates times or conversations. But I have to point out, that in these instances, when shown the facts, either phone records or calenders ect, these people, did not go on in their certainty that they were right, and the facts were wrong.
IMO people who mistakenly , misremember something, do not come up with a whole different scenario (the CPT Kirk/hero script). They say, something like….. well I remember it differently, but after hearing the 911 tapes, I must admit that I might be mistaken- Instead, what the Anthony’s did, was come up with different versions of “their truth.” such as pizza, or any # of other facts that now are muddled with their “mistruths”.
I do not know why they do this. Especially, in this particular instance, I do not understand what continuing on in their mistaken recollection or lie is getting them. But I know it is not getting us any closer to the truth of what happened to Caylee, when or why.
Ponderingwhy- I agree with you. Alot of people in times of panic or stress do not remember things clearly- I understand that there may be an innocent reason why initially their stories did not mesh- But remember, since then , their stories have evolved and became more detailed, not less so, and now they do mesh- time lessens accuracy not enhances it IMO
Everton F C Ive read the technical description of the dress is a Moo Moo dress whatever that is?
Hi,
The 911 call proves George walked into the house while Cindy was on the phone. When George, or any of them lie, they do it in great detail. Never thinking ahead to a follow up question. Therefore always digging their hole deeper! Pathological liars lie in great detail because they feel the more detail, the more believable the lie. “I got home at 10 minutes to 10. etc.. etc.. He remembers Cindy saying twice Caylee is gone, he remembers asking twice what do you mean…on and on. BUT when asked a simple question like; Did you talk to Casey? Suddenly it’s all to stressful to remember, everything happened so fast, etc.. They talk A LOT but never actually say anything. This happened to Cindy during the civil deposition. Cindy would say something long winded. Then a follow up question. Cindy would get frustrated because her follow up answer contradicted her first answer. Then she’d try to twist the question, or answer a question that wasn’t asked. Talk for a long time hoping to shift the focus and never actually say anything of value. Then get asked the original question again. Then a different answer which meant a different follow up. On and on, arguing. It’s very exhausting listening to them being interviewed. lol
Val said: It’s absolutely fascinating to witness two different people “misremember” things in almost the exact same way. Mass hallucinogenic memory warp, I guess.
I think that this makes for a good case that we do not know what happened from the time that C & G got home with the car and LE arrived. Cindy said that she washed a few things of Casey’s and we know they cleaned out the car, but do not know how much cleaning took place. A good idea of how much can be surmised from the fact that there is only one partial print on the exterior trunk of Casey’s car. There should have been Casey’s, George’s, and the manager of the tow yards prints on the trunk if it had not been wiped down.
So what ever they did, they have decided to not tell LE and come up with a common story about what happened and undoubtedly decided before LE got there about 10pm.
Sorry,
I just listened to the 911 call again. It’s been a long long time since I heard it. Cindy, while on the phone says; “George, Caylee’s missing!” ..”What?”..”Caylee’s missing!” “Casey said Zanny took her a month ago.” “She’s been missing for a month.”…Then a few more things are said, Cindy is very upset and I believe sincerely devastated in that moment. She exchanges a few more words with George as she is taking the phone to Casey. Casey very obviously doesn’t wanna talk on the phone, she is very calm and almost sounds aggravated. I believe Casey is now trying to come to terms with this lie she has told and has the attitude of.Ok I finally said it out loud, no turning back now, gotta play it out.
It’s my opinion that is what’s going through her mind at that point, plus again she’s aggravated because of how upset Cindy is over Caylee. Casey even views this reaction of Cindy’s at that moment, as favoring Caylee over her. These recordings of this night are probably the last time we hear any honesty at all come from that house.
I thought the depositions were very telling on the Anthonys consept of what a lie is Cindy was caught in a blatent lie when contradictions over statements made about Zanny.Cindy was shown a clip of a statement she made on TV saying to reporters we know the nanny exsists as Zanny has been a regular topic of convesation in our household for 4 years.Faced with this blatant contradiction to something she had said under oath she was asked were you being truthfull in that TV report she mumbled something inaudable an when pressed to answer she said no I MISSPOKE?Also when she an George were saying on TV we know who the kidnappers are an have them under observation.Melich had Cindy in for an interveui an pressed her on thease comments Cindy at first deney.s she or George had said any such thing,When Melich confronted her with proof positive that she had been saying that Cindy just states well Ive always felt that Jessie Grund took Caylee.That was there whole basis for we have the kiddnappers under observation comments.
Oh in case your reading this Cindy HAPPY BIRTHDAY you know I love you realy…oops I think I just misspoke?
Here are interveius with Casey an Cindy by the Child Wellfare Serrvices or whatever there called in America Casey is still insisting that she does work at Universal an O C S D has got it all wrong an trying to make her look bad ect of course Cindy agrees with her ? http://flawebhosting.net/docdump110608/dcfnarrative.pdf
I just wanted to point out, that they did behave in a reasoned way when faced with the facts and proof-once to my knowledge-
When shown the video footage of Caylee and great-grandpa on Father’s Day, they then said they were in fact mistaken.
But we don’t know if they fought this fact or not, or for how long. What we do know is LE wanted to confirm this with the Home. Cindy was mad, quite understandable.
But this, then became the basis for Cindy’s understanding of Casey’s interview with the police and the whole misconstruing- Cindy said during her jail visit and in the Z depos that they never letCasey talk that they put words in her mouth and she knew that was true because it had happened to her regarding FD and Mt. Dora
Sounds like a Harliquin romance scene out there in the driveway.
Val I hope you don’t mind me asking, or mentioning this in this thread? If so you can delete it : )
I was listening to the 911 calls, the first one in particular. Cindy says “I’d like to report a possible missing child, she’s been missing for over a month.” Then goes on to say about car theft. My point is, Cindy claimed to have never given any thought to the fact that something bad had possibly happened to Caylee during that month. She talked to Casey ever day via phone or text. Even after the car was found with the smell, no thought of it being possibly Caylee according to Cindy’s statements. Even during the State’s deposition, her myspace message did not mean she felt something was wrong or had happened to Caylee. Now, July 15th in the car with Casey, who hasn’t told Cindy anything yet. Cindy says to the 911 operator, she wants to report a possible missing child. Of course we can hear Casey tell Cindy she’ll bring Caylee home tomorrow but Cindy isn’t even entertaining that notion. My point is, all of Cindy’s claims and statements can be proved wrong just from that first call. Cindy obviously feels something is certainly wrong and feels Caylee is at least missing if nothing worse. So Cindy DID suspect something before Casey said anything. That 911 call contradicts a lot of statements Cindy has made since that day.
Take care, Thanks Val
» Bob said: { Jun 5, 2010 – 09:06:25 }
Excellent reminder. You are sooooooooooo right.
I have a couple of personal examples of mixed up recollections to share. One is that when my sister and I were told that our dad had been killed, she said that I wailed and dramatically fell to the floor. I have no memory of doing that, but she says it happened. The other story is not really related to getting bad news, but still remembering something differently than it truly happened. Years ago two co-workers and I were sitting in a conference room holding a meeting with people from other locations on the speaker phone. When my co-worker was speaking her part, she gave out a wrong date, so I corrected her. I didn’t mean to, but I got her so upset and flustered that she couldn’t carry on with her part. I thought she was going to cry. After the call was over and we went back to our desks, I apologized to her, and she said it wasn’t the fact that I’d corrected her, it was the fact that I said it THREE times. Me saying it over and over was what bothered her. I didn’t remember doing that, so I listened to the recording of our meeting, and I truly only said it once. I guess it just threw her off and she kept hearing it in her mind a couple more times?
Excellent post, Val – I hope the next post will be about June 24 and George’s two accounts of whether he saw the inside of the trunk or not during the “gas can” incident.
Regarding the accounts on whether George was with Cindy or not during the 3rd 911 call, I think both you (Val) and Maura are correct: I think they misremembered the events but tried to get it right – but also layered on great embellishments which renders both of them uncredible – yet another long line of embellishments/lies they’ve told to try to protect their image of the “wonderful family”. What they don’t realize is we would have far more sympathy if they dropped the act and say they tried to raise KC as well as we could but we don’t know what happened. And be HONEST in their testimonies. But hindsight is 20/20..
Cindy never mentioned Caylee during the first 911 call (8:08pm) when she and Casey were in the car at the Pershing substation. Cindy only said she wanted to press charges against Casey for theft of money and a car. There was no panic whatsoever in Cindy’s voice. The OPD operator said she was going to transfer Cindy’s call to OCSO, and during the wait, Cindy threatened to take legal custody of Caylee:
Operator: What I’m gonna do is I’m gonna transfer you to the sheriff’s communications section and you can…determine that.
Cindy Anthony: OK.
{Dial tone}
{Phone dialing}
{Phone ringing}
Cindy Anthony: My next thing will be child’s thing and we’ll have a court order to get her if that’s what you wanna play. We’ll do it and you’ll never…
{Casey inaudibly talking}
Cindy Anthony: Well then you have…no I’m not giving you another day. I’ve given you a month.
Orange County Operator: Orange County Sheriff’s Office
During the second 911, which was the first 911 call made from the Anthony house and first 911 call to OCSO (8:44pm), Cindy said she had someone at her house that she wanted to have arrested and also had a “possible” missing three year old. She went on to say she had found her daughter after a month but still hadn’t found her granddaughter. She was just as calm during the second call as she had been in the first call.
All the lawyers have said from the beginning that Cindy was never serious about pressing charges for theft of money and the Pontiac (which had been paid for by Lee and was technically Casey’s even though it was still registered to Cindy and George). Since Casey was an adult on July 15 with full custody of Caylee, Cindy had no legal right to see Caylee. She couldn’t have Casey arrested for not allowing her to talk to or see Caylee, so she went through the motions of having Casey arrested for theft because she knew if LE arrested Casey, they would require Casey to tell them where Caylee was. That’s what Cindy’s goal was and why Cindy was not freaking out during the first two 911 calls. Cindy could get Casey arrested, get the information she wanted about Caylee, and then drop the charges against Casey. It was the only way Cindy could put pressure on Casey.
I do believe Casey thought she could just tell LE Caylee was in safe hands and that Casey, her legal guardian, wanted her to stay where she was rather than be with Cindy (which would have been true). It was only when Lee told Casey that LE would force her to bring them to Caylee so they could check on her well-being that Casey realized her assertion of legal parental rights was not going to carry the day and that’s when she claimed Caylee had been kidnapped a month earlier.
Cindy freaked and called 911 for the third time (9:41pm). As we all know, this was the call during which Cindy said, “There’s something wrong. I found my daughter’s car today, and it smells like there’s been a dead body in the damn car.”
WoW…This should be interesting!
Momof3: I have always wondered about the June 9 date. It just seems very odd to me for two reasons. Fathers Day is always mid to late June. I never know the date until I check a calendar but I know it is a Sunday and mid to late June. Surely cindy could not have forgotten that she took Caylee to see her father for what very well could have been his last Fathers Day? So how did they mistake the date and set it so early in June? Also, when this all came about, it was mid July. They all agreed Caylee was gone 31 days, 1 month. Simple math had to have fixed the date of her disappearance in mid June….not the first week of June. Does anyone have any thoughts on this?
I think all the Anthonys lie just for the sake of lying. However when their stories match identically (at times when they remember their lies) and it’s obvious that they’ve discussed this at length, the more important question becomes, why? What is being hidden that George and Cindy feel the need to syncronize their stories in order to divert attention away from the truth of an apparently insignificant matter? They’ve done this time after time and there must be a method to Cindy’s madness.
Maura…As much as I do not like the anthonys, I will must agree with your last post. I do not think cindy knew Caylee was missing/dead until after she made the third 911 call. That call was heart wrenching to listen to. Now, george…..that is a different story! IMO
Maura:
You mention four statements given by people who have “misremembered” a date, but not the details of the actual event. I think we have to consider that these instances had not taken on any significance until July 16 and later so, it’s easy to accept that, while they might have been off a day or so on the timing, they no doubt had good memory of seeing Casey at Subway, Fusion, Wild Wings or a conversation that took place etc. Who could possibly remember, with accuracy, everything from a given “date” if we have no reason to believe it will be important in the future?
With that said, I don’t believe the examples you gave have any relevancy to explaining the mountain of Anthony lies, even on that first night in July 2008. They weren’t just forgetting a date, they were revising and re-revising and re-re-revising the events of that night. The big question is, WHY? There doesn’t seem to be any logical explanation except that is how the family had always lived and this pattern is so practiced into their normal behavior patterns, they perform by rote. Like circus animals, the Anthony’s perform on cue when asked any question by anybody. A simple, honest answer seems impossible for them.
» Maura said: { Jun 5, 2010 – 10:06:37 }
I have to agree with you. Cindy thought Casey was keeping Caylee from her in a bizarre game of hide and seek to punish her.
Maura,
You are correct. I was listening to the first 911 call from home. Which was actually the second call. Ok, my mistake. But during the second call, Casey hadn’t said anything yet about Caylee missing. My point was that before Casey said anything, Cindy did have a suspicion something was wrong. Which goes against her claiming she never even gave a thought to anything being wrong until Casey finally said so. I totally agree everything you said above
Well, EliGrandma, they were only off by about a day. In Cindy’s 911 call she was off by eight days from when she last saw Caylee. Casey said she hadn’t seen Caylee for 31 days. This was the evening of the 15th of July when she said that. That means she last saw Caylee June 14th. She was off by two days (we think). I guess all I trying to say is that the statements Maura mentioned are more accurate time wise than Caylee’s own family.
Still shaking my head…. and not having read the comments yet (and the answer may be there in the comments), I just don’t get why the importance of the story change, what does it matter when George came in, and who was where, pacing outside, or in the house trying to get info from Casey and who called 911 and who was there or was not there at the time.
The only thing that might make sense, is that someone is hedging the truth because they either know they must and understand why, or they know they must and have a pretty good idea why.
Why the cover up about George and his stay at work, trip home from work, and arrival? What is so special about covering tracks here?
Car cleaning time and going through the car ‘inventory’ is one thing I can think of as happening that they don’t want to explain in detail.
Funny how the A’s memories fade conveniently in some accounts, and in others, the detail increases exponentially with every restatement. Anthonyzheimers??
oh, and Val, as always…. salute!
I think there’s a huge difference in witnesses remembering insignificant events in their lives compared to family not remembering anything correctly about the most devastating loss they’ve ever endured.
Karen Lee, Agree!
My point is that Casey’s friends who were off on their accounts by a day or so is very different than the way the Anthony’s are off on most of what blathers out of their mouths. In other words, the fact that the friends were wrong on a date does not prove to me that the Anthony’s might also just have a faulty memory. To me, they lie intentionally.
» LCoastMom said: { Jun 5, 2010 – 04:06:51 }
(snip) And there is the “KC carried Caylee to the car” vs “Caylee ran to me and hugged me and gave me a kiss good-bye” vs “I carried Caylee to the car and put her in her car-seat” Do they even know the truth of that evening anymore or have they told so many fabrications or “mistruths” that even they no longer remember.
_____________________________________
this is the reason – IMHO – that Conway still exists 24/7/365 for them….my point about “coaching” & who’s doing it with G&C. it’s quite apparent what the impact of Conway has been on their “accounts,” as evidenced by the depos they did with M&M versus State of FL. quite apparent. he’s reallllly worked with them. yet, he’s imperfect as is the job he did with them, & here’s to hoping that come trial time, the areas he messed up in or couldn’t “fix” (like the “31 days” that stands like the gorilla in the room) might just cook his clients’ gooses…geese?….gooses. might.
ps thanks brenda t – good catch! gives ppl like me a “template” to follow for future posts & such.
“Eyewitness” testimony has proven notoriously incorrect over the years. The conviction and then the DNA evidence that freed him on a rape conviction are a good example. Jennifer Thompson, the victim made it her purpose to study the assailant’s face so that he would be brought to justice. She identified the wrong man. Today, Ms.Thompson speaks out about her experiences and the dangers of relying solely upon single eyewitness testimony to convict.
http://www.innocenceproject.org/Content/72.php
http://agora.stanford.edu/sjls/Issue%20One/fisher&tversky.htm
The Problem with Eyewitness Testimony
a talk by
Barbara Tversky, Professor of Psychology
and
George Fisher, Professor of Law
Yeah, I agree EliGrandma. I’m kinda sitting on the fence whether they lied about if George came home during or post the last 911 call. I know he came home during, but maybe they didn’t remember correctly what happened during that two minute time frame.
Val, thank you for starting this Encycliepedia. This was a perfect place to start. As I stated up-thread, this is small potatoes. They can easily wiggle out of this if they want to. There’s plenty of blatent lies to come.
Frankie, June 9 has always bothered me too. I chalked this up to everyone’s life being so different then- George was starting a new job, Cindy had just taken a vacation, Casey and Caylee were gone …
I don’t think Cindy knew much of anything during that time. I know she never expected Casey to leave and not return. Perhaps she deluded herself each night, into believing all of Casey’s lies, and she had to keep telling herself, each night that it really hadn’t been that long.
The way I think of it is- like a really bad first breakup- during the first couple of weeks you are in a daze, and you avoid the calender and the radio and try to keep yourself busy-hoping that things will work themselves out, and you hope it was a bad dream. Maybe this is how they all coped during that time.
But having said ALL that, IMO, it still does not answer how, when faced with the recorded 911 call, they all stick to the story regardless.
Sierra { Jun 6, 2010 – 12:06:24 }
I agree that they may now not now what the truth is. I think they have all lied to themselves so long, that they no longer remember it any other way.
The lies that were told after Casey was jailed are the lies that concern me. The lies about Casey’s employment and lack there of and the true story what she stole and how much.
When people lie like this family does, anything is possible as far as I’m concerned.
When Cindy said her daughter has always told “mistruths,” but that doesn’t make her a murderer, it turns out Cindy was, well … lying.
Lying like these people do is a MAJOR CHARACTER DEFECT, not just a little personality quirk, easily overlooked. Lying is part and parcel of every vile, despicable, immoral, illegal, murderous, heinous activity committed by humankind.
It should be viewed as the serious character flaw it is and not some understandable, forgivable little oopsie people commit under stress. Done on the order the Anthonys do it, it’s an abomination.
Frankie,
That June 9th business has bothered me since I first heard it. When I started following the case, the Father’s Day video had come out. And we all knew then Caylee was missing since the 16th of June. Someone said to me once that it’s possible to rattle off the wrong date, even in a situation as eventful as this date. My problem was/is, it wasn’t just said once, by one of them. It was said repeatedly by Cindy, George, Lee, and Casey! Not just once, a lot of times. I’ve heard them say June 9th many times. It was a date they decided on for some reason? I’ve heard June 7th, June 8th, Cindy said during the 911 call it was June 7th the last time she saw Caylee. Casey said it was June 9th during her interviews at home and at Universal, and it’s in the written report. She knew it was 31 days? But said with conviction June 9th. We’re talking about a life changing date. What are the chances every person in the family will get the date wrong, yet say the same wrong date!? I don’t know if anything will be said about it? It doesn’t make sense to me. Maybe it’s nothing important? They all obviously changed their story when the video was discovered. There will be more said about this I think by the prosecution. No doubt. In my opinion.
jennyb said: { Jun 5, 2010 – 04:06:39 } – sorry dear, but vds beat a complete stranger to a pulp for about 1000 bucks. he qualifies for no compassion from me.
Gracie thanks for the memory posts. And everyone else much interesting stuff going on.
I’m lovin George right now cause that July 24/08 OSCO Interview is a treasure trove on so so many things, the smell, the lying, the thefts, including the armed robbery, and the piece of work that Casey was…. Caylee maybe being dead.
I’m off topic a bit but it is something that has been much discussed. The birth story.
George page 20 “this is going to sound really crazy at the point, but my wife and I still believe that Casey still resents my wife the day that our granddaughter was born. They didn’t hand our granddaughter to my….
JA Casey?
GA Yes Casey. She went to my, went to my wife. My wife says, No No No thats got to go. Well they couldn’t give it to her because she was being stitched up.
JA Right.
GA Medicated and all this kind of other stuff”
Oh yeah and Casey’s lies about her employment will be a volume worth creating!
Anna: “A good idea of how much can be surmised from the fact that there is only one partial print on the exterior trunk of Casey’s car. There should have been Casey’s, George’s, and the manager of the tow yards prints on the trunk if it had not been wiped down.”
……………and——-the prints of the 2 dudes that were kind enough to push the car into the amscot lot for her.
Bob: “She talked to Casey ever day via phone or text”.
( says cindy now—–her email contradicts that).
………..cindy’s email to kc –written a month after they were gone:
“You told me everyday that you were going to call me and you HAVEN’T, but you choose to call when you know I won’t be home. What the hell is going on? I’ve tried not to bug you to death but I still haven’t gotten to see pictures of Caylee or gotten to speak to her. It’s been over a month now.”
» ecossie possie said: { Jun 5, 2010 – 09:06:11 }
Oh in case your reading this Cindy HAPPY BIRTHDAY you know I love you realy…oops I think I just misspoke?
____________________________
Oh in case you’re reading this ecossie possie, using Cindy’s birthday made your dagger extra sharp and personal. How nice you must have felt to deliver such a low blow to her on her birthday ( just in case she was reading).
You’re so kind, you must be proud, really…oops i think I just misspoke!
» ellejay said: { Jun 6, 2010 – 02:06:29 }
…that was particularly poignant for me Elle. TFC
Frankie: “So how did they mistake the date and set it so early in June? Also, when this all came about, it was mid July. They all agreed Caylee was gone 31 days, 1 month. Simple math had to have fixed the date of her disappearance in mid June….not the first week of June. Does anyone have any thoughts on this?”
..i’m sure it’s been a hot topic here ( before you and i discovered this site).
..it IS highly weird.
..( i believe it was lee that said they were all seperated throughout the house to give their initial stmts. to LE the night of july 15th.)
..and yet: (in their written stmts.)
george: ………”i have not seen, nor heard my granddaughters voice since june 9th.”
cindy: ” i last saw my granddaughter june 8th.”
kc: ” on monday, june 9th, between 9 and 1, i took caylee to her nanny’s apt….”
lee: ” my sister has been M.I.A for weeks..”
..it’s VERY weird that cindy, george and kc all “went with” june 8th or 9th.
..we DO know that kc spent june 9th ( and 10th?) at ricardos——did kc and caylee leave the week BEFORE father’s day, and that’s why the date is fresh in cindy’s mind? and she brought her home on father’s day so that cindy could take her to see grandpa?( works for kc——-a day NOT having to take “care of the kid”.)
..as to where kc then spent june 10-15—–there are potentially people out there that “know her”——-and yet don’t want their info plastered all over the internet.
…again——-good question frankie——-how DID they all come to write down that date? it’s not like cindy stood up in the centre of the house ” listen up! june 8 –or june 9 for those who (could have under normal circumstances) seen her the next morning!”
..( lee’s stmt. was short and sweet——way back in the day.)
» Bob said: { Jun 5, 2010 – 11:06:38 }
But during the second call, Casey hadn’t said anything yet about Caylee missing. My point was that before Casey said anything, Cindy did have a suspicion something was wrong. Which goes against her claiming she never even gave a thought to anything being wrong until Casey finally said so. I totally agree everything you said above
***
I don’t see the situation the same way. Cindy and George picked up the car that afternoon and learned it had been towed 17 days earlier; during those 17 days, Casey had been claiming she and Caylee were Jacksonville. Caylee’s car seat and mama doll were in the car at the tow lot. Cindy heard from Amy Huizenga just before confronting Casey that Casey had been shacking up with Tony at his apartment and that Amy had not seen Caylee for a month even though Amy had seen Casey regularly.
By the time Cindy found Casey at Tony’s, she was past the point where she would accept any more delays from Casey, and she was determined to do anything, even having Casey arrested, in order to force Casey to produce Caylee.
Of course Cindy was worried about Caylee or she wouldn’t have driven to the Pershing substation to have Casey arrested. But worried about Caylee’s welfare and believing Caylee was in danger or dead are two different things. Cindy’s calm tone of voice in the first and second 911 calls and her failure to even mention Caylee in the first call do not support the claim that Cindy believed Caylee was in danger, let alone dead.
ecossie——–thanks for the reminder re: cindy’s birthday. ( i could CARE LESS—-but i had forgotten…now i recall why lee said he stopped by the house on june 5th.)
..noela—low blows and daggers?? i AGREE! —–cindy’s stmts./media interviews since july 2008—she’s willing to throw any, and everyone under the bus for PPP. how low WILL she go——i have no doubt that we’ll see.
» ellejay said: { Jun 6, 2010 – 02:06:29 }
Bob: “She talked to Casey ever day via phone or text”.
( says cindy now—–her email contradicts that).
………..cindy’s email to kc –written a month after they were gone:
“You told me everyday that you were going to call me and you HAVEN’T, but you choose to call when you know I won’t be home. What the hell is going on? I’ve tried not to bug you to death but I still haven’t gotten to see pictures of Caylee or gotten to speak to her. It’s been over a month now.”
***
Cindy and Casey did talk or exchange text messages every day during that month.
Cindy’s complaint in that July 14 email that Casey told Cindy she would call but only called when she knew Cindy was not home referred to the previous few days. They had been talking on the phone during that whole period (not just text messages and voice mails). For example, Casey and Cindy talked for 25 minutes on July 8 and for 19 minutes on July 10, but had not had a live conversation since then. So when Cindy, on July 14, complained that Casey had not called, Cindy was referring to a live conversation over the previous three days. Casey had been sending text messages and leaving voice mails to Cindy during those three days.
Following up on Bob’s comments, if the anthony’s had no idea anything was seriously wrong, then why did the search under Caylee’s playhouse, actually digging up a paver, upon their arrival home from the impound?
IIRC, george told LE they did this.
I am looking forward to the prosecution asking them this question at trial.
It is very sad when a childs own family did not have a clue when it was, the last time and date they saw that child. What responsible mother would do that? George described Caylee’s clothing down to her shoes, but got the date he last saw her leaving with her mother wrong. Just doesn’t make sense. And as Judge Judy says, “If it doesn’t make sense, it’s not true”.
No one has yet to make me understand how two people can state the same “dramatic scene” and leave the God-blessed phone out of the recollection. As Maura has shown, Cindy was over a minute into the 911 call when George walks up. If Maura’s “mapping” of the movements that were taking place during that call are accurate (and I feel they probably are) there is no way to change this to what George and Cindy have stated. There is no way to make right “I wasn’t there during any of the 911 calls”. There is no way to make right “I didn’t even know Casey was there.” There is no way to make right ANY of what George or Cindy are stating about that “garage scene”.
And I refuse to equate peripheral characters’ inability to get what would have been a MUNDANE date right with this type of historical rewrite. And, I won’t even equate Cindy’s misdating of the last time she saw Caylee with this type of rewrite….BUT, I will equate George and Casey’s collusive joining in of the 9th as such! AND, I will equate Cindy and George’s recollection of what a joyous life that baby had even though NO ADULT IN HER LIFE COULD RECALL THE LAST TIME THEY SAW HER ALIVE (save Lee) with the same kind of historical rewrite.
So…since “Encycloinconsistencypedia” doesn’t have a good ring to it…it is my decision to stand fast with calling the collection of the Anthonys’ inability to tell the truth…lies. And I find the whole collusive nature of it to fall into the category of…”something’s just not right”.
on 3 july 08, C spent $15 or so parking at Universal & going to customer services to find Caylee, supposedly at a Character Breakfast, but she didn’t know for sure if Caylee would be there.
Let me write this again:
C, the penny pincher who was facing bankruptcy for a second time in her marriage, the first time that caused her to uproot her family from Ohio & move to Florida, mind you), spent $15 for parking when she had no idea the outcome of her search for Caylee.
on 3 july 08, C wrote “My Caylee is Missing”…..not, “I’m Missing My Caylee”
that speaks VOLUMES. it’s not a casual error. it’s deliberately entitled.
» nora said: { Jun 6, 2010 – 08:06:57 }
And as Judge Judy says, “If it doesn’t make sense, it’s not true”.
**********
Is that what Judge Judy says? If so, no wonder she’s an entertainer and not a real judge in a real court facing people with real problems. She’s a babysitter splitting up quarrelling children.
It doesn’t make sense that parents would murder their own children when every ounce of ‘parental nature’ SHOULD compel them otherwise. It doesn’t make sense people would put things into their bodies that are clearly known to be harmful or illegal. It doesn’t make sense that couples fighting for custody would put their own ‘wants’ above the needs of their children. So…is none of that true? It doesn’t make sense so it CAN’T be true. But….
What a silly statement Judge Judy makes.
WOW I missed that they look under Caylee’s playhouse including moving pavers. How did I miss that? That is a big deal.
Sierra,
Good points. Again, COLLECTIVELY, the statements and actions taken by Cindy beginning about the first week of July shows she was virtually consumed with worry about Caylee. Let’s put them all here:
The trip to Universal.
The call to Ryan Pasley (and possibly others we don’t know about).
Sending Lee to find Casey IN ORLANDO.
Looking at Casey’s myspace and/or Facebook pages.
My Caylee is Missing
The email fragment…which indicates…
The requests to SEE PICTURES OF CAYLEE…and…
some type of concern over the fact that SOMETHING has happened in that home that she has questioned George about and he has stated he didn’t come home. What did Cindy find at the home that had her sleepless and questioning George and wondering WHO WAS LYING AND WHO WAS TELLING THE TRUTH?
Her statements in the first 911 call that she has given Casey a month to produce Caylee.
HER STATEMENT IN THE SECOND 911 CALL THAT THERE IS A “POSSIBLE MISSING CHILD…A 3 YEAR OLD WHO HAS BEEN MISSING FOR A MONTH”….this is BEFORE Casey has confessed she has not seen Caylee in “31 days”.
to help with the next installment of the Encyc-lie-pedia, i took a look at what wftv calls George Transcript – Summer ’08 Interview
this is about the stench – to be corroborated (or, not) with Johnson’s Tow Yard Manager, & C (& of course, as one goes through this, one cannot help but comment – mine are in (parens)).
_____________
LE summer ’08 LE interview – GA (pg 7942-7953)
- G went to Amscot to pay bills at approx 11am, has to be at work at 2pm; gets to Johnson tow yard where he finds out that he needs the title for the car plus C has to go to ATM to get money so they agree to meet at their home and go back to tow yard together.
- G states he smelled the decomp stench emanating from car when he was approx 3 feet away from it.
- G looks in the car windows first (detective skills), then checks things in the front & back seat physically, vents the car due to stench, then requests that tow yard manager “walkaround to the rear of the car with me.” (detective skills)
- tow manager asks G, “why?”
- G states that “there’s a smell in this car & I Just Got To Know Where It’s Coming From.” (detective skills)
- G states that as he’s opening the trunk, he’s whispering to himself that he’s “hoping it’s not his daughter or his g/d.”
- G mentions the white, semi-transparent kitchen-size garbage bag in the trunk, & all the contents, but says “he didn’t touch it.”
(-THEN, notice the order G “remembers” in)
- G saw the trash bag with the tow yard manager, who G says “he (tow yard manager) said ‘here’s where your smell is coming from” & the tow yard manager took it “real quick” out & dumped it in the dumpster 20-30 feet away.
(So in this version of G & the stench, the tow yard manager opens the trash bag, G reviews content w/o touching bag or contents, YET then says tow yard manager says “they see the trash bag sitting in the trunk, says “see this is where the smell’s coming from” & quickly lifts it out of the trunk & dumps it, w/o seeing what’s inside first)
- G admits he “looked around in the trunk for a second” & saw the blue bins.
(In this version of G & the stench, G doesn’t admit to seeing the trunk liner stain at that time at the tow yard.)
(After all of G’s detective skills at play, when he smells the stench approximately 3 feet from the car to the time he brings the tow yard manager to the rear of the car, suddenly he loses all his detective skills and doesn’t call 911, doesn’t identify the car as a possible crime scene simply from the stench from 3 feet away, and disturbs the possible crime scene by rifling through front & back seat items, as well as the car trunk & passively “allows” someone else to either open the trash bag in the car trunk or throw it away when it’s first seen depending on which version you wish to accept thus throwing out possible crime scene evidence, and corrupts the crime scene by driving it with windows down to the tow yard front office then out through the city to his home/garage….then, as abruptly as he lost his detective skills, they abruptly return! as he parks the car in the garage & closes the garage door to conceal his actions and contain the stench, and further uses his detective skills by disabling the car by removing the car battery for the purpose of keeping his daughter (who’s “aliveness” or whereabouts are still unknown….if he thinks she’s dead, why remove the battery?…but she’s been in contact with his wife, so he knows that it’s not his daughter who’s dead…..& rather than get LEOs involved at the tow yard so they can determine who’s alive or dead & where they’ve been for a month if they’re alive, since C’s concluded that in the previous week CMA’s been avoiding her she knows that CMA’s alive, sooooo ….guess who they’ve protected from the time “somebody” walked within 3 feet of the car on July 15th.)
- G drove the car to the tow yard office where C was still arguing with the tow yard secretary.
- G states that once he got the car into his garage & opened up the trunk, he saw the trunk liner stain in the spare tire area, & put his nose to it to smell it.
- G states that “if my daughter’s out there, i don’t want her to come back & pick up this car.”
You are correct Valhall. Lies is a good word. It fits. It doesn’t feel good. I for one like to think the best about people and it is ugly when lies happen.
In general I think our society is very reluctant to baldly state that someone is a liar.
Maybe we all watched too many Westerns when we were kids. Most people like to think that we wouldn’t lie about important things and that lies about small things are white and harmless. And yet most people probably do lie, mainly to themselves for a variety of reasons. To stop from causing pain, feeling pain, to get something they want (stuff or love), to get a better job, a better deal. To protect themselves. To protect their loved ones. To not get into trouble. To get out of trouble. To get someone else in trouble.
But as Judge Perry has stated, Death is Different. You gotta draw the line somewhere.
Sierra,
Thank you for that work. That is actually the next topic I will be talking about in the Encycliepedia. And…as a cliffhanger (because I’ve come to really enjoy those!), there’s is something else that has happened in statements that will point to something very interesting about the “smell”.
I shouldn’t have said when lies happen.
They are not a thunderbolt, wind, flood or other act of God. There is always a decision to lie.
The Anthonys have chosen many many times to say the world and their actions are different then what is true.
Poor Caylee.
Noela I hOPE MY DAGGER WAS EXTRA SHARP while I dont know the woman personaly thankfully I hate an detest the way Cindy continues to disrespect CAYLEE an lets not forget she only ever had two birthdays an will never have another on this earth…
» Tob said: { Jun 6, 2010 – 08:06:26 }
In general I think our society is very reluctant to baldly state that someone is a liar.
**************
I’ll ‘baldly’ state that the Anthonys are liars. They lied. No doubt about it. This whole thing seems to have stemmed from the one small comment that a change in their ‘story’ about who was standing where, and whether or not George knew Casey was home, occured, and if that was a lie or not. It was a tiny, tiny moment, an utterly inconsequentail moment, and the only comment made was that they didn’t intend to lie about THAT ONE SCENARIO.
But yes, they’re liars and I have no hesitation in saying so. None. They lied. They lied big. They lied repeatedly. Just…in my opinion…not that time. And there are certainly other times when the term ‘lie’ has been attributed to things they’ve said that would cause me to pause. But really, it was one tiny little pondering, not an excusal of the whole Anthony mentality or the validity of pointing out genuine lies.
I said in general lol. Not you or anyone in particular. We are here to pick apart the various scenarios regarding this case. Everyone can have a different take on any part of it. It is what makes the world go ’round.
You’re absolutely correct Val, something is seriously wrong here. In my heart of hearts, I firmly believe the anthonys consciously decided to LIE the moment they brought that car home.
I have often wondered what they really did after it was in their custody. Just because they claim george returned to work does not mean he didn’t do other things too. Did he despose of certain items? Did cynthia?
I most surely do not believe their accounting of the actions they took after arriving home, they are liars.
val, i wait in suspense ! a cliffhanger ! you’re the best…
btw, did G&C really admit to looking under the playhouse on 15 july 08?
{i thought they did so on 3 july 08, the reason they replaced pavers ….some speculated that it was due to finding Caylee’s shoes – perhaps sandals or white sneaks (as was alluded to earlier by Maura – “why the change in G’s statement, when did he change it”
…which, i believe has to do with 11 dec 08 crime scene digging, the poor display by his clients in M&M depos in Feb/Mar 09 and the 6-10 months or so that Conway had at his disposable to “style” their testimony for the State depos to incorporate their “incongruencies”}
@Tob, I didn’t mean to imply you were speaking to me directly. I was just responding to that comment, and since my comments up at the top seem to have sparked this whole debate I was just adding further comment to address that.
Pondering,
I like debate. It keeps us open-minded and involved in critical thinking. Everything you have said in this thread has merit. Keep it coming!
Cindy self centred disregard for CAYLEE was never more evident in the speach she gave at the memorial…http://seamusoriley.blogspot.com/2010/05/cindy-anthony-memorial-speech.html
http://seamusoriley.blogspot.com/2010/05/cindy-anthony-memorial-speech.html
For instance my personal take on that day in July is that George and Cindy cleaned the livin hell out of that car as best they could, went back to work to pretend to their world that everything was normal. Cindy spent the rest of the day thinkin’ and chompin on gum, trying to think of ways to cover everybodies ass and tracking down Casey. When she found her she did everything possible to force the situation so that Caylee would be home eventually one way or another.
That all this effort morphed from manipulation(lies from all sides) into murder was unexpected to Cindy and George. By the next few days, they were all stuck with the lies and for some reason that I can’t understand they are unable to come clean about any of it. I wish someone in that family would take some remorse to heart and let that poor little girl finally rest in peace.
scampi –
by the LE interview of G (Summer ’08 Interview), the time frame G had that day was 11am – 2pm. He paid bills, went home, went to tow yard, drove to tow yard front office in short enuf time that C was still arguing about payment amount, drove home, shut garage door & commenced disablement & cleaning.
Let’s say for argument’s sake that he returned to the garage by 12pm noon (being efficient at the tow yard & all), & that he prepared for work around 1pm, left for work somewhere around 1:30pm to arrive near 2pm.
This gives him 1 hr to not only sniff the trunk liner with his schnoz, but to use car cleaning products (that might contain chloroform), vacuum, remove the car battery, &/or direct his wife, or collectively decide, what steps they will take to clean the car & start their investigation of their daughter & the stench & find Caylee….er, find CMA & get her side of the story.
i don’t recall from memory when C returned to work, but i thought it was later than G. i don’t recall when C returned home from work but i thought her coworkers told her to go home & she left about 5:30pm. C didn’t go to Amy sooner than 7pm, i thought, & so there’s 1to 1-1/2 hours open there to do some cleanup or clothes washing.
» Valhall said: { Jun 6, 2010 – 09:06:21 }
***********
Same here, Val. Ultimately, without debate how could justice be served? Thank god we have juries in this country and not dictators!
And I would just echo the sentiment to ‘keep it coming’. I REALLY enjoy your blogs!
Sierra -
Thank you for that info. I believe george made the statement to LE about the playhouse on the night of 7/16, that is my memory but I could certainly be wrong in that and if I am I stand corrected.
Do you think that when george went to Amscot that day, he questioned the employee’s there about the car? I think he may have.
i’ve never understood why C didn’t attempt to contact Amy sooner in the day, or hunt down CMA sooner than 7-8pm, after getting the car back at 12 noon.
G said that the stench permeated the house almost immediately after parking the car in the garage & opening all doors/trunk.
it seems to me that C might’ve returned to work to get away from the stench & allow it to dissipate…if it were anyone else, it’d have been so surreal we’d be in a daze going “what job?”…. but they went about their “merry way” & i don’t get the impression they were merry from the way they called their offspring & each other that afternoon/early evening.
that’s the only explanation i can fathom – the stench was too overpowering….it’s not that she was such an exemplary employee that her duties meant more.
Val;
I agree with you so totally, I can’t understand their behaviour and believe this may be a clue that points to the family’s dysfunction. They lie unnecessarily sometimes about things that are so unimportant it defies reason.
I wonder if that is how the family operated with everyone knowing the fibs but ignoring it. I can’t help but wonder what it would be like to live day in and day out for years with people like this. For me I know it would drive me crazy, I would never know what the truth was and constantly wonder about my sanity.
I have known people like this and distanced myself from them quickly however it wasn’t always like that. I knew they were lying but questioned myself, I wanted to believe their lies, especially when it came to any deep emotional feelings.
It is very easy to say the words that you know people expect you to say regarding love for your grandchild but think …… any rational normal grandmother or grandfather could not sit by and let 31 days go by with not a word from a child that TRULY lived in your heart and home daily.
I can’t for the life of me figure out WHY on earth didn’t LE take possession of that car right away.
Sierra and Scampi-
I think she tried mainly to reach Casey directly all afternoon and was probably lied to about where she and Caylee were. I would guess that Amy may have been at work herself and not really alerted to how serious the situation was until the evening. Did Amy come to the Anthony home to pick up Cindy or visa versa? I don’t think they warned Casey, because she would have left before they got there. ???
Thanks,
Tob
I think LE was focused on finding the baby. All else could wait. They were hoping the child was alive. They needed statements and Casey to give info asap.
» Valhall said: { Jun 6, 2010 – 08:06:19 }
The requests to SEE PICTURES OF CAYLEE…and…
some type of concern over the fact that SOMETHING has happened in that home that she has questioned George about and he has stated he didn’t come home. What did Cindy find at the home that had her sleepless and questioning George and wondering WHO WAS LYING AND WHO WAS TELLING THE TRUTH?
Val, maybe I am completely uninformed, but can you tell me what you are referring to in this re: something has happenened in that home?
Tob – no, they didn’t warn CMA they were coming; total ambush. IIRC.
ya know, if C really wanted to throw her weight around, plus find out where her daughter & Caylee were, C could’ve made it easy on herself & called LE for a “wellness check” on both, & indicate that she hadn’t any idea where her daughter was shacking up so do a “missing persons” report on one or both, if LE balked at the idea of a wellness check w/o an address.
she could’ve put it in LE hands after waiting a week for CMA to do this alleged “bonding” (that we all know is ridiculous) if she wanted to “give CMA a chance”. CMA wouldn’t have been able to get around LE w/o producing Caylee or a real babysitter; maybe that Zani story would’ve been a different story.
to me, C would call LE when a blade of grass was out of place yet didn’t use LE when 2 family members were AWOL for weeks. i agree with Bob – they weren’t so close, didn’t keep up with each other, & i wonder if G was even living at the house when CMA left w/Caylee.
shyloh – they needed to establish probable cause; get a search warrant…they were interviewing CMA from approx 10pm 15 july 08 to 5am 16 july 08, then LE returned to arrest CMA, tow the car on 16 july 08, then brought cadaver dogs on 17 july 08.
IIRC – in broad brushstrokes.
I believe each of us thinks we ourselves are “normal” and we project that normalcy onto others. If lying is what we regularly do, then it seems to me it would follow that we would expect others to do likewise. If I lie, you lie. Just that simple. If that’s the case, Cindy and George would have to assume (regardless of their experiences) that Casey lies, right along with all the other people in the world. Wouldn’t that negate the possibility of trust, ever, in any situation? Phfew!
The initial June 8 & 9 recollection-story of the last time Caylee was last seen is very Hinkey to me. Does that mean Cindy just coincidentally visited her father ON FATHERS DAY with Caylee and video cam without knowing what the day/date was? Did she not notice all the advertising (that we all see every year) ‘FATHERS DAY JUNE 15th’…did she buy him a card knowing this might be his last one, and bring Caylee for this special occasion? How on God’s green earth could she have not known the date when she appears to have most of the other related dates in check? Like with Casey and where Casey was doing/going for the 31 days…ie Tampa, Hard Rock, the Zanny accident, her (Cindy’s) time off/vacation etc. In addition, did they not do something for Georgio for his Fathers Day? As Val would say…somethin’ just ain’t right?
EDRN,
I’m referring to the email fragment found on the desktop. I’ll have to go find it. Somebody had reposted it here lately, but I don’t remember what thread.
Maybe I am not “right” but I have to look at calender to remember what day Mother’s Day and Father’s day fall on. I can remember birthday’s no problem but anniversaries & other special days are a blank unless I note them on a calender.
Ladybug said: { Jun 6, 2010 – 10:06:39 }
Not knowing the date is one thing. If asked I’d probably say “It was Father’s Day” and not necessarily give the date first.
Like you said, it’s a Hallmark kinda day.
Let’s stretch it and say it was just like any other normal “visit” day and then became aware of it being “dad’s day” when they stepped into the nursing home (of course I think they were plenty aware when they woke up that morning with plans to see Cindy’s dad but ok!).
We’ll never know if they would’ve admitted the “mistake” if the video didn’t bust their story. I think not.
Here it is, EDRN:
http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/Stories/Local/Anthony%20pgs%202801-2850%20f.pdf
page 2
“can’t sleep, stupid hot flashes wake me up then I start thinking about you and Caylee. Dad said he went to work at 9am and he got home at 630p, he said he did not come home in between. I don’t know who or what to believe anymore. You’ve told me everyday that you were going to call me and you haven’t but you choose to call when you know I won’t be home. What the hell is going on? I’ve tried not to bug you to death but I still haven’t gotten to see pictures of Caylee or gotten to speak to her. It’s been over a month now. Am I ever going to see her again? Are you still with Jeff? Are you going back to work? I saw on the news that Anheiser Busch is being bought by a foreign company that does not want the theme parks only the beer part of the Co. What is that all about they’re talking Disney or Universal may get to buy the theme parks. I thought Universal already merged with them? I’m not sure how much longer I can continue on this day to day course. I’m going freakin nuts not knowing what going on with you. I had a breakdown at work, can’t take much more stre”
To be off by that many days … clearly you are hazy. If someone asks me the date of something and I just can’t reconstruct I might say I don’t remember exactly, or give the date with a qualifier “I think it was a couple of Tuesdays ago but I’m not 100%”.
How many times do you give a definitive date when you’re not really sure? Doesn’t something nag in your brain (ESPECIALLY when it’s something fairly critical like the last time you saw a loved-one alive).
You want to remember, you know it’s important. So you are as truthful as you can possibly be and make sure to mention you’re not positive, because it MATTERS what your answer is. In a life or death situation you don’t just make up/toss out some random date.
Of course, the posters had the wrong date and phone number, the van George was driving around had the wrong date and phone number… It was deliberate.
Thank you Val. I appreciate it.
Cindy states to L E that after she finished cleaning the car I ate a sandwich an returned to work.This is very unlikely haveing smelled human decomposition it permeates everything an invades your nasal pasages an your throat you can litterly taste it.An sitting down to eat a sandwich would not be on the agenda.I M O this was just Cindy trying to mimilise the smell an thought the eating the sandwich would add creadance to her pizza expanation.
George wasn’t stupid enough to get rid of all the evidence….he knew that, if the police got involved, there’d be an investigation, and an obvious clean up job would be suspicious.
He probably did a little bit of cleaning, maybe threw some things away on his way to work, but there’s no evidence of vacuuming or scrubbing of the trunk liner.
George knew exactly what he was doing on July 15. He couldn’t change the reality of the situation, so he did as much as he dared and then got the heck outta Dodge to let Cindy take care of all the dirty details.
All these years, he’s deferred to Cindy and allowed her to call the shots, but IMO that’s only because he doesn’t want to have to be accountable for his actions.
He didn’t WANT to know what was really going on on July 15, but he probably had a pretty good idea of what the truth was, and he knew that the truth couldn’t be hidden forever.
–Why, no, officer, I didn’t get a chance to talk to my daughter on July 15.
–Well, Mr. Investigator, my wife found my daughter and got all the information from her. I showed up after everything had happened.
–I knew something was wrong, but I had to go to work, so my wife took care of locating our daughter.
–My wife has always been the best at dealing with our daughter, so I felt confident my wife could figure out what was going on.
iirc, Amy come home from PR that day and Casey picked her up at the airport. CA may not have been able to reach her earlier…I dont know if she tried or not.
I think what Cindy was refering to in that unsent e mail an George stateing he hadnt been returning to the home dureing the day.Was simply Caseys habit of waiting untill the house was empty an then going in an doing her thing.Obviously Cindy noticed dureing the 31 days Casey was of bonding with CAYLEE.That someone was entering the house when she was out.She probably confronted Casey about it in a text or something an Casey deneid it an inferred it was probably George returning home an not going to work.He may have previous for this an Cindys head was spinning trying to figure out wich chronic liar to belive.
Ecossie “wite click” 2 click RIGHT ON! I totally agree, Cindy (eating a sammy..lol) has tried to minimalize everything! Casey bonding with Caylee? HA! I damn near ripped one my arm-thingys off my puter chair when I read that! Another one that gets my goat is her saying something like “I’m just the grandmother, Caylee is Casey’s child and it was’nt my place to blah blah blah”! oh yeah, and how we’re all gonna see and say Casey is the Mother of the Year! Yes, of course Cindy, and we will call you the Grandmother of the Year with the most perfect family in America.
How could this control freak let 31 days pass? And to minimilize it all is flat out FRIGHTENING.
QUESTION: Do you think Cindy truly believed that Caylee was in capable/good and loving hands?
If the memories fail, that’s one thing, but if they all fail in the same direction, to the same end, the jury will see right through that and it could help the jury understand this family dynamic and the need to protect the accused daughter above all else.
How do we know George is really the quiet family member, and could it possibly be that he defers to Cindy because he needs to control himself and stay cool? Thinking of the video of the reported violence, George pushing the protestors, Lee was seen with hammer that George had been holding, the son had got the hammer from the aggravated father, and Lee is the one who stepped in between George and the protestors and his action was only to move his father back in a calm manner without inflaming anything. That says a lot– the son had more of a leadership role.
Then there was George in the Morgan and Morgan outer office hallway with Cindy pulling a fit, saying in a firm voice to his wife ‘shut up!’ then again, ‘SHUT UP’ and pulling at her to leave it alone. Cindy didn’t bat an eye at her husband telling her in front of people, to shut up, not a quiet mousey tug at her arm ‘let’s go’.
George may be the one who is most like Casey in some ways?
Kleat -
I think George is child-like, I’d say emotionally retarded. I think he has a kinder spirit than Cindy overall but he gets confused, can’t articulate, and when frustrated flails and lashes out, goes into rages. He’s not exactly vibrating at a high frequency. He’s a very weak character.
I have a comment about the script writer. So many believe that Cindy ran the A household. Cindy is a liar but IMO she is not the one who is in charge of the A camp. I believe that George was home before he said he was on the 15th. When he arrived home I think Casey admitted that Caylee was dead, not missing. George, having had a career in LE in the past gave him some insight into crime and this was beneficial to all of them. I’m sure G and C butted heads over the script they were going to use but I think G was more in control of the situation than C. I’ve always felt that G wasn’t the wimp that most others believe him to be. He was the one to come up with the script…if you listen to Cindy and her rants listen carefully, a lot of things she’s stated sound more like questions to me, or as if she’s not sure if she’s saying the correct things the way G instructed her to say…Does this make sense? After time went on I think G got a bit confused over his own made up stories. As we’ve seen in interviews Cindy always seemed to have a firm grasp on G….she either has her hand on his leg or his hand in hers, and she appeared to be in control but only to keep G on track with his script. C as a nurse is very detail oriented, she has to be in her line of work. So although G is the script writer, Cindy is the one who’s doing her darndest to keep the lies straight. Am I the only one who sees this?
Exactly Gracie, me too, and I had to be reminded every year of what day Fathers Day was before my dad passed…actually had to be reminded what exact day his Bday was! LOL! But I would remember a short 30 days later if I had been present or not. I dunno, with Cindy’s selected memory bank, I’d think she would remember due to the state of health her father was in and that might be his last Fathers Day. Did Cindy not tell Casey and Lee “hey kids Fathers Day is June 15th, don’t forget”? It’s just strange to me that nobody acknowledged the day. JMO
Love your posts btw!
I wanted to add, if you remember, after getting the car home and the death stench had filled up the garage Cindy said to George something about the car stinking like death and she then said it’s the pizza right George? He said, yeah, it’s the pizza. I think Cindy is hanging on to G’s every word because she couldn’t accept that what she smelled was death. She wants George to make everything ok which is what he’s attempted to do by lying.
Jennyb~ TY for helping me with my thought! lol Not very good at writing em’…but thats exactly what I was thinkin’! Something like “oh yeah, it was Fathers Day” and you are right about the date part, that would prolly be a secondary thought if at all.
RE: The misstated date of the last time anyone saw Caylee.
I think this was a conscious effort to mislead LE by ALL OF THEM. Why? Because they were talking about a Missing Child, why didn’t any one of them stroll over to a calendar and check that they were correct on the date? Wouldn’t you, I sure would.
But imo they didn’t want the correct date known, because of the circumstances under which the defendant left the home, that is “the fight.” I think cynthia was shocked when the assisted living visitation video showed up.
Respectfully Jrube, what are you smoking this morning? Don’t know how there could be any doubt in your mind that Cindy A. is the TOP SERGEANT in the A. family! JennyB, you are on the money with your analysis of George A. He is a very weak character, and has gotten there mostly from living with Cindy all these years. I think George is a kinder, gentler person, and he knows the truth about what happened to Caylee. He figured it out within himself from the very beginning. That is why he appears to be the person that has suffered the most from this “mess”. I do understand George has lied, but he has been trying to survive with Cindy at the helm. Of course, I am not trying to make excuses for George. At some point, you have to have strength of character and George has none. Within the Anthony family, George is the one person who has SOME saving grace, IMO.
» jrube said: { Jun 6, 2010 – 11:06:27 }
I think Cindy is hanging on to G’s every word because she couldn’t accept that what she smelled was death. She wants George to make everything ok which is what he’s attempted to do by lying.
************
Is there a possiblity George wanted to believe it as badly as Cindy did, so instead of facing the most likely scenario he just agreed and decided not to face it until it was clear that’s what had happened?
At that point they did not KNOW what the smell was (or, more accurately, WHO the smell was), and while their suspicions were peeking into the red, they didn’t want to go there. Some would call that a ‘lie’, some would call that ‘denial’. AT THAT POINT IN TIME, I would call it denial. After it was proven Caylee was dead, and having to face the fact pizza doesn’t smell like a dead body, I would call holding on to that story as…weird and unhelpful. Maybe a lie, but a pretty useless lie. I would temper it with the fact it’s just too horrible to face. They didn’t need to be ‘honest’ about what that smell was for LE to KNOW what that smell probably was. They get a pass from me on the initial comments, “George, it was the pizza, right?” and “Yeah, it was the pizza.”
They get a strange look and some pity for holding on to that comment. But LE doesn’t need the Antony’s opinion to prove that wasn’t pizza, so it’s a lie, if it’s a lie, that does them no good. They are not qualified to testify as to whether it was IN FACT pizza or a dead Caylee, so who cares what their wishful interpretation is.
It rasies the question: can opinion be considered a ‘lie’ when it is not based on factual evidence? They did not know FOR A FACT what was creating that smell, though they certainly suspected, so can their ‘opinion’ about what they hoped was creating it be considered a lie when it comes to testimony in court?
Linda!
Please, not so hostile toward a differing opinion. I don’t think it takes “smoking something” for someone to entertain what jrube stated. I actually do see a two-way ability to affect the other between Cindy and George. And I think we will see more instances of it as the Encycliepedia gets more entries.
I think one of the most “telling” things is George saying “someone” “by the name of Zanny”…Gee thought they knew and have heard the name Zanny, like, forever!!
Great idea for the EncycLIEpedia.
LindaNY…
someone by the name of Zanny
this Zanny person
etc.
I will watch for whether George ever actually refers to “Zanny” without one of these qualifiers. As I sit here I can’t think of a time.
Jrube~I think G & C are co-dependent script writers and partners in crime so to speak. It’s amost obvious to me who wrote what, simply by the body language exhibited by the other. Take the Larry King vids for example…Geo looked at SINdy before and after he spoke, especially when he said “it was pizza, I saw it”. Those vids are so telling as to who wrote what, and Geo saying ad nauseum “well, just like Cindy said” before answering questions; which he has done repeatedly in almost all the TV ‘CASEY IS INNOCENT TOUR’ videos. They are undoubtedly in this together, but I think the one with the money and crib (Cindy) has the upper hand regarding the script. ie “Cindy told me to go back to work”. JMO of course.
@COL:
“Nobody realizes that some people expend tremendous energy
merely to be normal.”
-Albert Camus
Val, Love Love Love this site! I just want to say that your rendition of the screenplay, ie: Trek-ky style, made me spit coffee AGAIN ! I’ve been waiting for the lies to be scrutinized by you and all! Thanks again!
Linda from NY…ROFLMAO @ EncycLIEpedia!
LOL, I think cynthia’s statement can be read two ways, depending on which emphasis you put on those words.
That smell is pizza, RIGHT george! (this way is cynthia instructing george what the company line will beand how I think she said it.)
That smell is pizza, right george? (more of a question and not how she said it because imo she knew exactly what that smell was, she is a nurse.)
» Ladybug said: { Jun 6, 2010 – 10:06:22 }
NO I DON’T! And I don’t think an army of opposing thoughts is going to make me change my mind on this particular point. There are too many points of evidence to the contrary.
The My Caylee is Missing entry is about a grandmother worrying about WHO IS TAKING CARE OF HER GRANDDAUGHTER! If she thought Casey was this MOTFY then she wouldn’t have concerns…now would she? She would have written about MISSING her granddaughter, but not about Caylee’s welfare!
The email fragment – a dire need to SEE A PICTURE of Caylee. I’m sorry, but (sorry for stealing from you Boz) CHEESEANDRICE! She needed a picture bad enough to be up battling with the concerns she had that she had not received one.
NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO…Cindy did NOT think Caylee was in capable hands.
I think it takes a certain level of well-entrenched corruptness to cover for a child’s bad (and criminal) behavior to the degree and for the length of time I suspect the Anthonys covered for Casey. In order to develop a habit such as automatically beginning cover up behavior upon discovering their kid’s latest screw-up, they had to have done it repeatedly, and they had to be OKAY WITH IT to some extent when they applied their own malfunctioning moral compasses to the situation. In fact, I can step my theory back even further and say I believe much of Casey’s bad (and criminal) behavior, and in particular the lying, was learned at home and/or condoned at home.
This is the reason I don’t particularly believe the Anthonys were ruled, even from the very beginning, by shock or denial when they picked up the car at the tow yard. I don’t think they were behaving in an out-of-the-ordinary fashion when they secreted the Pontiac in the garage to keep their movements and the horrific smell away from prying eyes and noses. Why would they bring the wretched thing into an enclosed space connected to their presumably pristine home if not to practice cover up behavior?
I don’t think they were displaying out-of-the-ordinary behavior when they checked under Caylee’s playhouse and rifled through the Pontiac that day, either.
In many ways, the Anthonys behave like a crime family or criminal organization.
Valhall said: { Jun 6, 2010 – 11:06:44 }
Val, Don’t hold your breath……
Monica here’s a few more:
‘Tis hard a new-formed fable to express,
And make it seem your own well-managed mess.
-Latin Proverb
A wise man does not waste so good a commodity
as lying for naught.
-Mark Twain
A lie with a purpose is one of the worst kind,
and the most prifitable.
-Finley Peter Dunne
There are a terrible lot of lies going about the world,
and the worst of it is that half of them are true.
-Winston Churchill
Thanks, Ladybug…these desk quotes always come in handy somewhere,
don’t they? I have a folder of quotes I wrote down over many years,
also on my desk. Yours are quite apropos. And I would add another
Camus:
“He who cannot maintain his place above the law
must seek refuge in madness.”
Val,
It becomes even more bizarre when you plug in a more standard name that’s not so cartoon-characterish. Like say, if the babysitter’s name was, uh, Deborah.
This Deborah person. Someone by the name of Deborah. Like that.
You just DON’T reference a person you know that way.
Jan, Jan, Jan!
Wow! That was a BULLSEYE!
Monica said: { Jun 6, 2010 – 12:06:41 }
Or one of my favorite Dylan lyrics: “To live outside the law you must be honest.”
Monica~
Linda From New York said: { Jun 6, 2010 – 11:06:50 }
Oops I should’ve quoted you on the Zanny “person” comment. You are spot on!
@Jennyb…Good one!…For sure. Keep good karma and stay off the radar.
Val~
OMG!!! My eyes are watering! “MOTFY”! LMFAO!
Jan said: { Jun 6, 2010 – 11:06:12 }
Jan, YES. I feel certain Casey was “home-schooled” in the ways of deception and how to disrespect authority. From an early age. And they do remind me of an insular crime family entrenched in their own twisted mores.
Jennyb~
LOL! “Deborah” is that what they’re calling xanax now? Crap, I need to get out more often! jk…but seriously, Deb, Debs, ‘Deborah the Daysitter’ just doesn’t have that Casey Spice or Hollywood Pizazz that Casey likes! Not to mention Deborah sounds resposible, real and expensive! LOL!
responsible
Hee hee, Ladybug!
Deborah the Babysitter would not work for free, that’s for sure!
Scampi~ “a nurse of composition”-Cindy Anthony LOL! C & G play on each other so much so it makes me wanna hurl. G’s always preficing his comments with “just like Cindy said” and SINdy is the same with her “It was the pizza RIGHT George”? LOL! -OR- “Gee, you’ll have to ask my husband” -OR- “Gee, you’ll have to ask Cindy”. The clencher is that they CANNOT BELIEVE they “raised someone who was capable of hurting anybody”! ? ? ? Say Whaaaaaaa?
Actually Zanny not only worked for free, she paid for the privilege. She bought duplicates of everything Caylee had, down to the car seat, just for the joy of caring for an Anthony.
Who comes up with this stuff? I mean… REALLY.
Ladybug said: { Jun 6, 2010 – 12:06:16 }
I don’t think Cindy ever leans on George or tells someone to “go ask him” unless it suits her express purpose of the moment. Day to day life I doubt George was respected or looked up to or deferred to in any way.
Just like when she got flummoxed by tough questioning in her depos and interviews about Casey’s activities and if she ever met the nanny or had the correct contact info, she would suddenly revert to…I trust my daughter. She’s an adult, a great MOTY. Why would I question her, etc.
Only when it suited her purpose.
We all know she called Casey non-stop when she was out with friends, at the mall, whatever. She dogged her daughter and certainly did not trust her one iota.
» sierra said: { Jun 6, 2010 – 09:06:52 }
Let’s say for argument’s sake that he returned to the garage by 12pm noon (being efficient at the tow yard & all), & that he prepared for work around 1pm, left for work somewhere around 1:30pm to arrive near 2pm.
This gives him 1 hr to not only sniff the trunk liner with his schnoz, but to use car cleaning products (that might contain chloroform), vacuum, remove the car battery, &/or direct his wife, or collectively decide, what steps they will take to clean the car & start their investigation of their daughter & the stench & find Caylee….er, find CMA & get her side of the story.
i don’t recall from memory when C returned to work, but i thought it was later than G. i don’t recall when C returned home from work but i thought her coworkers told her to go home & she left about 5:30pm. C didn’t go to Amy sooner than 7pm, i thought, & so there’s 1to 1-1/2 hours open there to do some cleanup or clothes washing.
***
The car was released to George and Cindy at 1:55pm when they paid the bill. The receipt is time-stamped.
Then George and Simon Burch went to the yard to get the car, opened the trunk and threw out the trash bag. George tried to start the car and couldn’t. After he put gas in the tank, the car started, and George drove the car to the office. That all took roughly 8-10 minutes.
George and Cindy drove to Hopespring Drive, which is 7 minutes from the tow yard. They arrived home around 2:10-2:15pm. George removed the battery and then would have cleaned up before leaving for work.
EPass records show George’s SUV was on the 528 westbound toll road hitting the first transponder at 2:29pm. It would have taken him five minutes to drive from the house to that toll booth.
Given the time constraints, George did not have time to do anything other than remove the battery and wash himself up before leaving for work.
Cindy’s co-worker Debbie Bennett said Cindy returned to work around 1:30-2:00pm, but it had to be closer to 3:00pm since George and Cindy left the lot around 2:05pm, then went home, took the battery out, etc. Cindy looked on the computer at a Facebook account at 2:40pm, and Cindy had to drive 15-20 minutes back to Winter Park. Cindy probably returned to Gentiva around 3:00pm.
Debbie said she herself left work that day between 3:00pm and 3:30pm and Cindy was still there so Debbie didn’t know what time Cindy left.
Cindy’s other co-workers said she stayed at work for a while before they talked her into leaving. I would guess she returned home around 4:30pm because that is when she began texting Casey to call her about a “major prob.”
At 6:18pm, Cindy’s SUV hit the airport toll booth on 528 westbound on her way to The Florida Mall to pick up Amy. She had probably called Amy for the first time between 5:45pm and 6:00pm when Casey would not respond to her text messages or answer Cindy’s phone call (Casey’s cell records show she “missed” a call from Cindy’s cell at 5:31pm). After Cindy talked to Amy the first time, Amy said she needed to consult with JP before getting back to Cindy. Amy called her back, they made arrangements about where to meet and how to identify each other, etc. Cindy probably left the house shortly after 6:00pm.
I’m leaning toward they knew from the moment they smelled the car….or at the very least it was a strong feeling and they suspected this could have been the case. I’m saying that as much as we freak about Cindy letting her stay….and I do as well. It wouldn’t suprise me one little bit if KC hadn’t already threatened this with them before. Look at the way she talks, how she wants to be in charge. I can easily hear the scenario:
Cindy: KC we know you’re not working and all, we’re not watching Caylee for you to hoe around with every Tom, Dick & Harry. You better straighten up and be a better mother or I’m going to take Caylee and kick you out!
KC: You can’t do that…..That will never happen!
Now here’s the big argument where Cindy explains to KC all the reasons why she would gain custody of Caylee if she did indeed take this to court, and KC has no choice but to realize that she’s right….the courts would probably deem her unfit and give Cindy custody…..so her next response goes as this
KC: F#(K YOU…..you are the worst mother ever….you made my life terrible and never really loved me anyway….you screwed me up and then loved Caylee more than me anyway. You wouldn’t even have Caylee if it weren’t for me……You’ll never raise her……I’LL KILL HER BEFORE I LET HER BE RAISED BY YOU. Afterall, I brought her into this world….I’ll take her out!
As a matter of fact….I’d be suprised if this type situation never did go on in this house. Not that we’d ever hear about it even if it did. This is pretty much why I think they pretty much knew from the minute they had that car in their possession. Not to mention all the other reasons you all have mentioned. G’s background in LE, C’s nursing, etc…..on down the line of all the b.s. spewed.
My oldest daughter claims I’ve been the worst mother ever right now….she’s 16 and I’m a pretty strict parent…as far as she isn’t allowed to run the roads and be where ever she is doing whatever she’s doing. I keep tabs on her, oh and she can’t skip school with her friends without getting grounded. The more I tried to put my foot down and make her follow the rules the more she broke the rules! It progressivley got worse and the things she did, more rediculous and I always tried to give her chance after chance, and she could easily manipulate me into believing that things have changed and she finally gets it and we should try again….only to F it up again and in a little bigger way this time….on down the line. Bad enough that she is 16 and doesn’t even live in my house right now because it was truely the best thing for my family, her younger siblings. Very sad, but true! She was always a defiant child, but things started getting out of control with her around 12ish and progressivley got worse to what it is now.
She never ever ever takes responsiblity for her actions, always blames it on someone else and when she tries to make me out to be the bad mom….it’s always to people who do not know me and she tries to keep it that way.
I will honestly tell you, I was not a perfect mother…..(show me one perfect person) I had her at 17, but did the very best I could with her best interest in mind from the moment I knew she was on the way. Such as, she never knew her bio dad, but the only man she ever met was the one I married and he adopted her. I sometimes they turned out not the best, but I always tried my best. Never the less, all of her probelms are my fault, I’ve been a horrible parent, never really loved her on down the line.
She even screamed in my face the day before I booted her that she hates me and she’s going to run away and get pregnant on purpose and it will be all my fault and not only would I be ruining her life, but it would be my fault and I will be ruining her kids life too!
It’s strange, and this is where I have a hard time completly faulting G&C for all of the way KC is acting. I mean, I know that while I may not be MOTFY, I love my kids, they know it, there isn’t man after man after man in their lives, I’m home with them almost every single day and night, I spend time at their schools, blah blah blah
But again, there was a time when as parents they should have seen what was going on with her…..long before it got to her killing her child…..their beautiful grandchild combined with the lies and cover up afterward…..This is where I can’t even begin to understand. I had no choice but to make a decision in my house…..literally the safety of 3 children or the so called happyness of 1…..and I choose to keep the 3 younger ones that aren’t even close to taking care of themselves safe and had to let the other one go and learn for herself, because there was obviously nothing I could do to change her or her mind and it was bringing no good to any single member of our household. That was not an easy decision to make, and it still makes me crazy to this day, but all I can do is hope and pray that she figures things out before it’s to late!
Sorry for the long A$$ post, just a little of my insight on KC and her family. Just another possiblity.
Jennyb~
ROFLMAO! “Who comes up with this stuff? I mean…REALLY”. Theres NO WAY Deborah the Daysitter would go to that extreme! Only Zanny the Nanny. LOL!
George said he and Cindy checked the sheds and he moved the playhouse and looked underneath for “signs of foul play” on July 17. Cindy also said she asked the K9 handler to take the dog near the pool because of the pool ladder incident that happened during the week of June 16.
Thanks Maura. lol. again. I didn’t know how Cindy and Amy hooked up that night. And I assumed they knew each other on sight before then. Not so I guess.
My mistake — so George waited a couple days after retrieving the death car to look under the playhouse (this according to George, of course, so salt shaker please).
And Cindy *directed* the dog handler to the pool area (again, according to Cindy, so salt lick please).
Helpful, are they.
I’m thinking if I didn’t suspect my daughter in my granddaughter’s disappearance, not only would I NOT be digging up my backyard and directing cadaver dogs to specific spots … I wouldn’t be in my backyard at all.
If I DID suspect my daughter, the ne’er do well, I would STILL not be out in my backyard looking for “red flags” and “clues” … I’d be wherever my daughter was, about an inch from her lying face, threatening her within an inch of her lying life to tell me what she’d done with my granddaughter.
But … that’s just me.
Right on Rhonda, I believe they knew something VERY SERIOUSLY WRONG AND ALL THE “BENEFITS OF THE DOUBT” came crashing down, and they hustled their asses home>>>>OPEN GARAGE>>>>GET CASEY’S CAR INTO THE GARAGE>>>>>SHUT THE EFFING DOOR>>>>OPEN UP THE DEATH MOBILE AND THIS WHEN THE BIG WTF? WTF? WTF’s EXPLODE IN THE CAR,ie Caylee’s babydoll, her car seat, her lil backpack and the stench of death sealed inside the garage seeping into their prestine fake home…..they knew. Why not put the INNOCENT STINKING CAR on the road or at least in the driveway? Hinkey.
Also, OT thank you for sharing a bit of your journey…I think you are doing the right thing. You and my mom would get along great, she had to do that w/3 of my bros (9 kids total) but it works almost every time! You sound like a great mom.
Cindy took the first week of June off and believed she and Caylee had visited Alex at the nursing home on the last weekend of her vacation, which was June 7-8. She also originally thought she and George went to Cocoa Beach on the last weekend in May. But she was off by a week because the Cocoa Beach trip was on the last weekend of her vacation on Saturday, June 7. She visited Alex on May 30 and June 15, not on June 8, but she may also have been thrown off because Casey and Caylee spent the nights of Saturday, June 7 and Monday, June 9 with Ricardo.
At any rate, it’s my opinion that on the night of June 15, Cindy honestly believed she had last seen Caylee on the weekend of June 7-8. She told the 911 dispatcher on the third call that she had not seen Caylee since June 7, but when she wrote out her OCSO statement 30 minutes later, she wrote the date Sunday, June 8. I think she did know she had last seen Caylee on a Sunday when they both went to Mount Dora, and she possibly changed the date from June 7 to June 8 after realizing June 7 was a Saturday.
Cindy strikes me as being the person in the house who makes the trains run on time, so I am not surprised that George would have accepted Cindy’s date as correct and therefore assumed he had last seen Caylee on Monday, June 9. I do not believe there was any nefarious collusion to “get their stories straight for the cops.” I simply believe George was confident that Cindy had the correct weekend.
Casey is another story. I do believe Casey knew the June 9 date was wrong, but it was in her interests to throw off the timeline, so she used the same date that her father used. Lee said he and Casey could hear every single thing George and Cindy were saying to the deputies, which is how Casey knew what date they were using. I also suspect Casey heard George tell the deputies what he recalled Caylee wearing on June 9, which is why Casey’s description of Caylee’s clothing is a near-perfect match to George’s description. And I believe Casey knew Caylee had not been wearing a pink top, white sneakers, and a blue jean bottom, which is why Casey was so confident in stating to Tracy McLaughlin in late August something like, “They haven’t even found the clothes she was wearing.”
I do think The Anthony’s rely on one another to bolster their lies. I also believe that at first, they were in denial about the smell, and alot of other issues.
During George’s FBI interview, the officer attempts to let George know that the woman who he fell in love with, the strong, independent, tell it like it is, Cindy- is not there anymore. She has been replaced by a mother who is in extreme denial and will use her words inorder to lie/cloud others perceptions of her child and family.
The FBI agent goes on to say that Cindy as always been proud of the family she and George raised and right now she is having a hard time coming to grips with the reality of the situation. The FBI agent then brings up the questionnaire, that they had both George and Cindy fill out on Casey- It is more than obvious that Cindy has lied throughout the whole questionnaire.
The FBI agent basically states that it is going to be up to George to help his wife come to terms with all of this and it won’t be easy.
Now, my question is- Was Cindy lying in her questionnaire? Was she in denial? Was she aware she was glossing over the truth? I believe the answer is yes, to all of these questions.
Rock ON JAN!
LOVE that last line! No, I loved the whole post! I woulda’ severely beat the shit outa’ any family member under these conditions! Grrrrrrrdamn. And Cindy and Geo are like “well, we really have’nt had a chance to talk to Casey” drivel. I DO THINK that when Geo’s friend was in from Ohio, Geo was ready to do just like what we’re talkin’…beat the TRUTH outa’ this 2-bit lying whore…too bad Cindy was there.
OOPs Sorry ValHall, I accidentally put the wrong “name” in the name box-Mom3.0 instead of Momof3- Could you please change it back to Momof3?- Sorry about that.
» Maura said: { Jun 6, 2010 – 01:06:39 }
Cindy strikes me as being the person in the house who makes the trains run on time, so I am not surprised that George would have accepted Cindy’s date as correct and therefore assumed he had last seen Caylee on Monday, June 9. I do not believe there was any nefarious collusion to “get their stories straight for the cops.” I simply believe George was confident that Cindy had the correct weekend.
Casey is another story. I do believe Casey knew the June 9 date was wrong, but it was in her interests to throw off the timeline, so she used the same date that her father used.
************
Agreed, completely. Again, it speaks to ‘intent’. If you believe everything George and Cindy do is based on pure evil or spawns from sick, twisted minds, you’ll come to a different conclusion than this. I do not believe their initial intent was to lie, lie, lie, and then lie some more. I do believe their intent changed as things progressed.
Now, I can easily believe Casey’s full intent was to lie, and she did so knowing she was lying. It is my belief her intent never changed and has not changed to this day; she will do anything or say anything to avoid telling the truth about what happened to Caylee, and her role in it.
Have a great day everybody…I’m gonna go around the Hinkey Library and do some reading…my 2 typing fingers are whooped!
Ladybug — yup, the dancing around Princess Poopie Pants by her parental units is one big fat twisted mystery to me. What were they afraid of — her tiny fisties and her wittle red face? Really? And did they think things could get WORSE at that point — the point where their defenseless, voiceless, vulnerable 2 year-old was missing at the hands of their lazy, unemployed, lying, thieving, bed-hopping evil spawn? Really?
Cindy created a little Frankenprincess in her own liking, alright, and it never served her worse than when she *teamed up* with her little monster against her own husband. When George was all about confronting Casey while she was out on bail, not only did Cindy tell him to back off, but Casey screamed the same at him (and then surely stormed off to her bedroom in a bit of righteous drama to put another coat of blue nail polish on her wittle toes).
Wherever Caylee is, it’s an improvement.
Thanks Ladybug….
! It’s great to know that it has worked out for the better in some cases.
Isn’t it odd that when Cindy picked Casey up from Tony’s that she did not ask Casey where Caylee was? Isn’t that what Amy said? That says to me that Cindy had some bad thoughts running through her head & did not want to confront Casey in front of Amy.
Jan:
“I’d be wherever my daughter was, about an inch from her lying face, threatening her within an inch of her lying life to tell me what she’d done with my granddaughter.But that’s just me.”
..and me
Jan & Ellejay…..me too!
» Maura said: { Jun 6, 2010 – 01:06:39 }
Agree totally. I do not think that Cindy misremembering the trip to Dora was anything but misremembering. Which is sad enough in and of itself. But I don’t think there was some nefarious plot to throw things off by using the wrong date. And I think Cindy’s explanation about how she got the last trip to Dora WITH Caylee mixed up makes sense. She took Caylee up there with her often, and she went often. She just got her weekends mixed up.
Personaly Ladybug I feel they all new CAYLEE was murdered by Casey on the night Cindy door belled her an pounced on Casey at Tonys nuetral space though from what I here It was a fairly highly charged space.Amy says Caylee was never mentioned beetween Casey an Cindy whilst she was in the Car an Caseys demeanour was that of a naughty teenager getting busted for something That would have changed when they dropped her of ..Even Lee admits they were at each others throats as they stepped out of the car at hopesinks drive.George an Cindy already new CAYLEE was dead when they found the car an George an ex police officer began sanitiseing a crime scence an destroying evidence .Finding Casey she an her feeble lies would have just confirmed it for them Casey I think probably caved an told the truth when the police were on route an they all decided to go along with the gospel of saint Casey.Thats what Casey was code talking? to Cindy in that first jailhouse visit …dont worrt I havent said anything.Not the sort of message a Greiveing Grandmother would want to hear about a missing grand child.Casey wasnt refering to CAYLEE though she was confirming she hadnt caved to to the detectives an was continuing the lie .Its weird as the lie became self perpemtuating an evolveing an then the lies took on a life of there own an seperated an we actualy witness the birth of a new species the Anthonys lies gained sentiance an split started mateing with each other an new lies were born to go fourth an multyply.
» L. Smith said: { Jun 6, 2010 – 02:06:44 }
Isn’t it odd that when Cindy picked Casey up from Tony’s that she did not ask Casey where Caylee was? Isn’t that what Amy said? That says to me that Cindy had some bad thoughts running through her head & did not want to confront Casey in front of Amy.
***
According to Amy, Cindy immediately and repeatedly demanded Casey to take her to Caylee but Casey kept refusing. And all of it was in front of Amy.
From Amy’s July 16 OCSO interview regarding the initial confrontation between Cindy and Casey at Tony’s apartment:
OCSO: What does Casey say to the mom?
Amy: She was like, what are you doing here?
OCSO: Uh-huh. (Affirmative)
Amy: And she was like, you’re taking me to see Caylee. And Casey was like, she’s fine, she’s with the nanny, she’s fine. Pretty much with that inflection. Actually a little angrier but I can’t do it as well. Um, and that’s pretty much the extent of what she kept saying.
OCSO: Uh-huh. (Affirmative)
Amy: She’s like.. pretty much just kept being like, you don’t need to see her, we need our space, blah.. blah.. blah. Even though she’s been apparently with the nanny for the past month.
(snipped)
Amy: Um, in the car ride back to drop me off um, Casey..
OCSO: So, she comes with you guys?
Amy: Yeah, no Casey’s mom was pretty much like you’re taking me to see Caylee now. I have to see her and I have to make sure she’s okay. Casey kept saying, she’s fine, she’s with the nanny, she’s good. . . .
Valhall said: { Jun 6, 2010 – 02:06:12 }
But if a search for your grandbaby rests on what you remember or mis-remember (can’t believe I’m even using that term) then you damn well walk over to the calendar and check out your mis-rememberence. You do a little research, a little back-tracking, head-scratching. Call the nursing home, call your mom Shirley, try to confirm the date before LE takes the date as gospel. Do you print up flyers with this mis-remembered date? Do you plaster the side of a van with this mis-remembered date? At what point do you figure out the date MIGHT be incorrect and scramble to inform authorities so they can do their job?
Oh wait. You do that after they confront you with indisputable proof that your date is wrong.
Sorry. I AIN’T BUYIN.
…i’m sure an entire encyliepedia entry could be done on when exactly george,or cindy,actually claims to have heard of zanny.
..2 instances only , from george:
Civil depo:
Page 17:
A You just asked me about zenaida Gonzalez.
I didn’t hear that name, sir, until July of 2008.
Q okay. when is the first time you ever heard
the name zanny? would it be –would that be the same time?
A No, sir. I heard that about a year prior to
that.
Q okay. Tell me what were the circumstances
when you heard zanny a year prior to that.
Q And when you say about a year earlier, you mean
earlier than July ’08, so around the summer of ’07 is when you
say you heard that name?
A Yes, sir. That’s probably an accurate
statement, yes.
Q And who did you hear it from?
A My daughter.
Q And what did she tell you?
A A lady by the name of zanny was watching her
daughter occasionally when she went to work.
State depo:
Page 139:
Q Okay. Did you — when did you first hear the
name, Zanny?
A Not until probably about the beginning of
2008. I mean, that’s — I’m pretty specific about
that. I’m pretty doggone positive.
Page 144:
THE WITNESS: I really did not hear the name
Zanny until probably January or February 2008,
specifically Zanny.
BY MR. ASHTON:
Q In what context would you have heard that?
A I can’t remember if it was Cindy or if it was
Casey telling me that her — someone that she had met
and this name was given to me as — you know, as Zanny,
someone who was actually taking care of Caylee.
……….make up your mind george.
If you do the same thing week after week (and I don’t recall Caylee going EVERY week with Cindy to the nursing home but whatev… then you KNOW there’s a chance of confusion. Which is why you step back and try to organize your thoughts.
Every member of the family mis-remembered?
Ellejay
“…i’m sure an entire encyliepedia entry could be done on when exactly george,or cindy,actually claims to have heard of zanny.”
No kidding. I hope that epic chapter comes soon. It’ll probably exhaust Val’s bandwidth and the whole blog’ll spontaneously combust like a Spinal Tap drummer from the sheer volume of the lies — but it would be a good juicy read…
Ack. My temperature’s starting to rise. I’m leaving before Val boots me off the island. Be back laterz.
jennyb,
If I recall correctly (<===flag that Val is going off memory and odds are this is wrong! LMAO), I think Cindy said they DID look at the calendar.
I believe Father’s Day would be one of those “RED LETTER DAYS” in the literally sense. She still got it wrong.
But I’m still not ready to say it was deliberate….I’m more than ready to say it is disgusting, sad and heart-shattering. You can’t remember the last day you saw your granddaughter before she was TAKEN from you….and that’s what the past month had been for Cindy, Caylee had been TAKEN from her. No matter what bonding stories, work stories, etc. she wants to tell, her writings show Caylee was TAKEN from her life and her pleas to see even a picture of Caylee were being refused. And she couldn’t remember the last day she spent with her. It makes my stomach turn.
I still wonder what Casey meant when she told George and Cindy, “Don’t worry, I haven’t said anything”, when they went to see her at the jail. And another thing that has always bothered me, is the fact that when the officers responded to the 911 call to the home on hopespring drive, the garage was opened, how come they did not pick up on the smell of decomposition coming from inside? How many units showed up? 3 or 4 I think George stated. Enough law enforcement for at least one of these officers to detect the smell.
Maura:
Thanks so much! It is still odd that Cindy would say to Casey that she needs to see that Caylee is okay. Cindy did not trust Casey, that’s for sure.
AWWWWWWHA!
Maura…thanks for the times for when Cindy had to have gone back to work. If her co-worker left at 3 pm and Cindy had returned to work BEFORE this coworker left, and had not left work again before that co-worker left…
CINDY WAS NOT THE ONE ALONE WITH THE CAR!
I see a future Encycliepedia entry!!!!
From George’s state depo:
GEORGE, is the one that was alone with the car!
I remember about 30 years ago, I had my nephew w/ me at the mall and I hate to admit it, but I lost him. He was playing under the clothes rack and somehow he snuck out of the store.
When I realized he was missing, I had completely panicked (sp?). The store closed their doors, and the mall was shutdown. I was in such a panic, I couldn’t remember what he was wearing except for the brand new sneakers I just bought him an hour earlier – with lightening rods. Luckily, he was picked up by security and was eating an ice cream cone when I got to him. He had a such a big smile and just said “Hi, Aunt Chrissy!”. Meanwhile, I was shaking and just totally out of my mind.
To get to the point, I could never imagine having my own child taken from me (as KC states) and then remain calm and carry on like nothing ever happened. I guess it takes a ‘special’ person to be able to not tell anyone, watch videos, and party for 31 days after it happens.
Val, in Maura’s post { Jun 6, 2010 – 12:06:18 } she says: George and Cindy drove to Hopespring Drive, which is 7 minutes from the tow yard. They arrived home around 2:10-2:15pm. George removed the battery and then would have cleaned up before leaving for work. EPass records show George’s SUV was on the 528 westbound toll road hitting the first transponder at 2:29pm. It would have taken him five minutes to drive from the house to that toll booth. Given the time constraints, George did not have time to do anything other than remove the battery and wash himself up before leaving for work.
************
Are you thinking George did some evidence tampering? If this time frame is correct, when would he have done it and what would he have done? Or do you think the time frame is not correct?
Valhall, George’s EPass records show he was on the 528 toll road heading west to Andrews International at 2:27pm. That was his Chevy that hit the westbound airport toll. He was late because he said in the summer of 2008 that he had a meeting to go to that afternoon at the office. He went to his security assignment after the meeting. His Epass records show he left Andrews shortly after 5:00pm and drove farther west on the 528 to his assignment at the Premier Theater.
Cindy’s SUV hit the westbound 528 airport toll at 6:18pm when she drove to The Florida Mall to pick up Amy.
George was not in the house when Cindy left for Gentiva that afternoon. He left first.
As for his testimony in 2009 that he left at 4:00pm . . . isn’t this whole thread about honestly versus accuracy in witness testimony? In the summer of 2009, he may have honestly believed he left the house at 4:00pm on July 15, 2008, but his Epass records for that day tell a different (and more accurate) story.
Got it, Maura! Thanks for straightening me out. I forgot not to take their words for anything.
I think Cindy KNEW she could not call LE until she retrieved Casey and all of them syncronized their stories. Cleaning that car tells me that both Cindy and George knew exactly what they were doing and what needed sanitizing. There was no urgent need to clean the car to that degree when both needed to go to work unless there was something that immediately needed covering up. The fact that there is only ONE print is more suspicious than if there were several. This was not simply a ‘wipe down’, it was a thorough cleaning. Knowing they smelled decomposition and knowing Casey was fine, must have known it was Caylee who met her demise…. unless of course they assumed Casey drove around with someone else’s body in that trunk. Either way, they knew Casey needed a smoke screen and cover story. I think Cindy planned to call LE from the time they found the car but needed some additional time to get her ducks in a row first.
Here’s something that caught my eye…
And that’s when she told me that Caylee was missing; Caylee had been taken. And she said someone by the name of Zanny had her and Casey was inside with Lee.
SOMEONE BY THE NAME OF ZANNY HAD HER?????? We’re supposed to believe that Caylee’s nanny of 2+ years has kidnapped Caylee and Cindy tells George “Someone by the name of Zanny had her”. Why is it worded that way? Why isn’t it’ Zanny the nanny has Caylee’? They way that Cindy says it, she’s only hearing the name Zanny for the first time in her life. This is not a woman who has been watching Caylee for 2+ years. This is a new character that Casey has suddenly introduced to her family, IMO.
I agree Steph, at the time, Cindy had no idea who she was about to frame for the entire scenerio. She was unfamiliar with this name.
@Scampi said: { Jun 6, 2010 – 11:06:34 }
RE: The misstated date of the last time anyone saw Caylee.
“I think this was a conscious effort to mislead LE by ALL OF THEM.”
~~~
I agree with you – drawing attention away from the actual date Caylee was last seen alive.
What else may have gone on in her last days that would necessitate the quite obvious deliberate falsification of this very important date ?
» sierra said: { Jun 6, 2010 – 10:06:31 }
Thank you hon!!!
Jennyb — you said: If you do the same thing week after week (and I don’t recall Caylee going EVERY week with Cindy to the nursing home but whatev… then you KNOW there’s a chance of confusion. Which is why you step back and try to organize your thoughts.
Every member of the family mis-remembered?
*****
‘Xactly. Why on God’s green earth did these people, if the oddly uniform June 9th date was nothing more than innocent confusion, not spend MORE time studying a calendar and trying to nail down an accurate time line TO HELP FIND THE BABY, and LESS time defending their position on the date they all last supposedly saw her?
And how the blazes did CASEY arrive at the same June 9th date as the rest of them, when on July 15th she’s announcing that it’s been “31 days” since she’s seen Caylee, and she was the last one to see her?
Does that not just SCREAM that she and Cindy colluded before they filled out their individual written statements that all cited the 9th? And does it not just SCREAM at Cindy’s massive level of influence (and decided lack of brain power), that she could bend Casey over to HER June 9th date? What was THAT conversation like, I wonder? How does Cindy’s *faulty* memory of dates trump Casey’s recounting of leaving her daughter at the bottom of the concrete stairs leading up to Zanny’s apartment “sometime between 9am and 1pm” on June 16th?
HI,
I don’t know the reason why they all kept saying the 9th of June? I’ve heard them mention a few different dates also. The 7th, (9th mostly), They’ve said the 14th, and a couple of others.
I believe this was done for a reason. What? I can’t figure out? I really believe it wasn’t just a “slip”. I don’t know how they feel they could benefit from trying to lie about the date? The only thing that comes to mind, but I’m not sure why, but I have a feeling it has something to do with the car? Cleaning that car out as fast as Cindy did wasn’t necessary. They knew they had to cover up a crime, and they both knew what that smell was. I’m just wondering if the date they tried to give had something to do with the time frame of the car being in Casey’s possession somehow? Maybe I’m totally off base? Hmm?
» Valhall said: { Jun 6, 2010 – 11:06:30 }
» Ladybug said: { Jun 6, 2010 – 10:06:22 }
QUESTION: Do you think Cindy truly believed that Caylee was in capable/good and loving hands?
NO I DON’T! And I don’t think an army of opposing thoughts is going to make me change my mind on this particular point. There are too many points of evidence to the contrary.
I don’t either, and cannot find a way to understand how Cindy ever let Casey leave with Caylee, hanging that baby out there. Law or no law, rights or no rights, Casey’s parenting and Cindy’s interventions were already mundane, happening repeatedly with phone calls or requests to baby sit while Casey galavanted all over. Cindy knew that Casey’s first concern was going to be Casey, how did she ever let them walk out that door?
Val,
Do you remember who said that KC had a photo of Zanny and Caylee together?? In my mind I believe it either was JB or Cindy.
Please and thank you!!!
IvysGrama said: { Jun 6, 2010 – 06:06:20 }
Even if she couldn’t get LE on a wellness check she could’ve reported her car stolen, or financial theft, which she eventually did, but the baby was already dead.
I can’t even imagine the panic, fear, worry every second of every day knowing the baby was probably being horribly neglected at best and in grave danger at worst.
It makes me sick to think Cindy did nothing. Didn’t even try. Sending Lee to a nightclub/bar was what she called “trying”. That’s like Casey looking for clues at Fusion. Two peas in a pod.
I think one of the bigger lies she told to divert LE as to the intensity of the problem and absolve herself of culpability and ignorance was to insist she’d spoken with Casey by phone or text EVERY DAY. She told the media that too. We know now that most days they did not connect at all.
Cindy told OCSO investigators that George’s first day at his new job was Monday the 14th of July. She told FBI investigators that he was starting his new job that day.
George told OCSO and FBI investigators that he started with the new company a week prior to Monday the 14th.
From Cindy’s SAO interview on page 344:
Q: Okay. Okay. After you removed those items, put them on the ice chest, was George gone when you did that?
A: Yeah. Once we got the car home he was late for work.
Q: Uh-huh.
A: And he had only started that job a week before all of this, and I didn’t want him to, you know, get in trouble.
IMO, Cindy said in her deposition that George started that job a week before all of this because she anticipated that was what George was going to say in his deposition, but that’s not what he said.
From George’s SAO deposition on page 295:
Q: All right. You said the week that encompassed July 15th of last year you had just started a job with — and you said the name.
A: Andrews International. I started with them, as a matter of fact, on June 30th. I think I accepted the position on June 30th. I think my first date was, like, July 1st or 2nd, something like that with them. Great Company. I lost a great job –
IMO, George probably either knew or suspected that OCSO investigators had issued a subpoena to Andrews International requesting his work records and he didn’t want the SA to catch him in an easily provable lie.
Cindy told OCSO investigators that Monday the 14th was George’s first day at his new job, so he went to the post office on the 15th because he didn’t have to go into work until later in the afternoon.
George told OCSO investigators that he didn’t get a chance to go to the post office on Monday the 14th because of work. He elaborated on that in his FBI interview:
GA: …I didn’t get to the postal service on Monday [July 14th] –
SB: Uh-huh.
GA: Because of work. I got called into work earlier than was usually expected. Just started with this new company a week prior to that, but they needed me in early for a meeting and some other stuff. And so my meeting and my day went by. I didn’t get a chance to make it to the postal service.
SB: While they were open.
GA: So I told my wife that night, I said, listen, I didn’t get a chance to stop but I’ll find out. I’ll get it tomorrow for sure ’cause I don’t go into work until the afternoon.
SB: Uh-huh.
GA: Okay. That morning [July 15th] I got up and did my thing. My wife was already gone to work. Just killing some time. Finally about eleven o’clock, I knew I wanted to go to the post office. I had to go pay a utility bill. Went up to the local Amscot; this is right up the street from us. Paid our utility bill. I think it was my electric bill or was the water bill. I can’t remember which one I paid at the time. I think it was the electric bill; also paid also my cell phone bill the same time. After I got done paying that, I drove down to get this letter ’cause I had to be at work at two o’clock…
From George’s SAO deposition on pages 214-215:
A: …The next day [Monday the 14th] I didn’t get a chance to go to the post office like I wanted to. Couple distractions, something just happened. I went, I remember, and paid a utility bill and just didn’t have enough time. Tuesday the 15th of July, I made it very specific that I needed to go and take care of that. Because Cindy asked me and I said I didn’t bother going on Monday. So I went on Tuesday and I know it was probably about noontime, could have been a little bit after noon…
It seems to me that both George and Cindy lied to OCSO and FBI investigators about when George started his new job and used it as the reason he didn’t go to the post office to pick up the registered letter on Monday the 14th. It doesn’t make sense to me that they lied about that unless their intention was to cover something up. My speculation is they lied because they found out either on or prior to the 14th that the car was at the tow yard, but they decided not to pick up the letter or the car until July 15th.
From Cindy’s SAO interview on pages 282-283:
Q: Okay. Do you have any knowledge of someone other than Casey having — aside from the tow company, having the car from June 16th to June 30th.
A: No. I have no knowledge. I know George at some point thought he had seen Casey’s car on Chickasaw, but I kept telling him it can’t be because Casey is not home. But there is a car similar to Casey’s car in that area, but it doesn’t have the bra.
Q: Uh-huh.
A: It’s a white Pontiac. Because I used to see it and think it was Lee when he was driving the car. But this one, George had thought there was a male with a ball cap driving Casey’s car sometime between the 16th and the 27th. In fact, he called me on his way to work one day and said he thought he had seen it somewhere on Narcoossee because he was going to work that way. Narcoossee is right around the corner from us. In fact, that’s where Johnson’s Towing is –
Q: Uh-huh.
A: — is on Narcoossee Road. And — and I just kind of blew it off. And then I remember one night coming home from work, he told me he had seen the car again in the area. But I — I had not seen the car.
IMO, George may have told Cindy that he thought he had seen Casey’s car on Narcoossee Road sometime between the 16th and the 27th, but he probably told her at some point after June 30th, that he thought he had seen it in the lot at Johnson’s Wrecker Service when he drove by.
My speculation is that after George and Cindy received the postal delivery notice informing them that there was a registered letter at the post office from someone by the name of Johnson’s, they talked about it and tried to figure out who it was from, and the name Johnson’s rang a bell — George may have recalled that he thought he had seen Casey’s car in the lot at Johnson’s Wrecker, so he drove by to check it out, and he observed that the car was still there.
Another possibility, IMO, is that George decided to go to Amscot to pay the utility bill on July 14th, after Cindy left for work. He may have observed the tow away sign and noticed that Johnson’s was the name of the tow company. He knew the registered letter at the post office was from someone by the name of Johnson’s, so he decided to drive by Johnson’s Wrecker to check it out, and he observed that Casey’s car was in the lot. Maybe that was one of the distractions George mentioned to Mr. Ashton in his deposition but didn’t elaborate on.
According to Casey’s cell phone records, George rarely used his cell phone to call her between June 16th and July 15th, so it is interesting, IMO, that he called her at 8:21 a.m. on July 14th. My speculation is that he was trying to get in touch with her to tell her that he found out where the car was at and to ask her why it was there, but she didn’t answer her phone. It was a missed call.
I think George probably decided to put off going to the post office to pick up the registered letter until he discussed it with Cindy. She probably decided that she would try to find out from Casey why the car had been towed and what was going on. She probably wasn’t getting anywhere with Casey, so she decided that George should go ahead and pick up the registered letter and retrieve the car on the 15th. IMO, she knew that Amy had gone to Puerto Rico and was returning on the 15th, and Amy would probably know where Casey was at. She did say in her deposition that she knew Casey and Amy had been speaking in the last several months, and Amy seemed to be, like one of her new best friends. She said she figured if anybody saw her it would be Amy.
I don’t believe it’s just a coincidence that the car was retrieved on the day that Amy returned from Puerto Rico and Amy is the only person Cindy called to ask for assistance in locating Casey.
» FRG said: { Jun 6, 2010 – 06:06:38 }
Val,
Do you remember who said that KC had a photo of Zanny and Caylee together?? In my mind I believe it either was JB or Cindy.
Please and thank you!!!
……….i personally don’t ever recall hearing of a PICTURE of zanny ever, or anyone other than kc, cindy and george “talking about her in normal conversation” for 2 1/2 yrs… (according to cindy) around the house…
…cindy DOES recall seeing a picture of (imaginary) jeff hopkins and (his imaginary son ) zach…
civil depo: page 18.
I saw a picture of Zachary and
Jeff. I could pick them out because I saw pictures of
them.
Q Have you ever seen a picture of Zanny?
A No, I haven’t.
Q Now, I wanted to clarify –
A But I have a picture in my head from
descriptions from the last two and a half years.
So interesting, Inquisitive. Thanks for the information.
Another inconsistency I’ve discovered after reading comments here:
If George arrived home when Cindy was on the phone to the dispatcher during her third call and George followed Cindy into the house and Cindy gave the phone to Casey who stated that the police had arrived while still on the phone to the dispatcher…then why does George claim to have spoken to Casey for about 10 minutes?
I also believe that Cindy had the garage door open to air out the stench in the car rather than to “watch for the police to arrive” as I believe it was Maura who suggested. And that does not mean for a moment that I don’t think she’s some kind of genius, believe me, because I do.
(Just writing down thoughts that occur to me as I go along here…there is so much to learn in retrospect. I love this kind of thread; going back in time and seeing things differently from so many people.)
» ellejay said: { Jun 5, 2010 – 06:06:50 }
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Of special interest to me:
» ellejay said: { Jun 5, 2010 – 06:06:50 }
George’s written police stmt. July 15th @ 22:16p.m.
ARRIVING AT 9:50PM, MY SPOUSE WAS IN OUR GARAGE, CRYING UPSET & TOLD ME THAT CAYLEE MARIE (OUR GRANDDAUGHTER) WAS MISSING, TAKEN A MONTH AGO, BY A PERSON BY THE NAME OF ZANY.
Now, let’s see…George is very exacting…
(HIS SPOUSE MUST BE HIS WIFE CINDY)
And he makes sure that the police know who Caylee is…
(OUR GRANDDAUGHTER)
but he can’t tell them who Zany is…
(A PERSON BY THE NAME OF ZANY)
Why not? Isn’t she,
(CAYLEE’S BABYSITTER)…?
So, he, in my opinion has no idea who Zany is and any statements by the A’s about knowing all about her for years…
(BULLSH*T)
From Shirley Plesea’s 7/22/08 OCSO interview on pages 3 and 4:
SH: Uhm, that’s kind of what we wanted to do is try and figure out when the last time that Caylee was here. And you’re positive it’s Father’s Day?
SP: On the 15th, uh, Father’s Day, yeah (affirmative).
SH: Okay.
SP: (Inaudible) Because in the letter I said to her, Mary Lou, I said, “Cindy brought a nice card. I told her not to buy any presents for Dad because it cost so much for the gas.” And I says, “Caylee ran right up to Grandpa so he could hold her.” And she wasn’t afraid of him. And she hadn’t seen him for a while.
It seems to me that it had been a while since Caylee had gone with Cindy to visit Mr. Plesea in the nursing home.
Inquisitive: “Mary Lou, I said, “Cindy brought a nice card. I told her not to buy any presents for Dad because it cost so much for the gas.”
Huh. I guess Cindy did know it was Father’s day, huh?
Quel surprise. *snort*.
Probably didn’t have to even strain herself looking at the calendar. I’m sure LE would’ve gladly extrapolated the date if she’s just said “Father’s Day”.
Poor thing. She was in too much denial and shock to remember that. But she had the energy to find a date on the calendar. And she had the energy to recount Zanny’s accident, Zanny’s sister’s names, her roomates’s names, her mother’s name.
Amazing!
Denial is just so selective. It comes and goes like a poltergeist… kwazy.
Oh and Cindy even remembered the name of Zanny’s fake nurse at the fake hospital treating her fake injuries from her fake accident.
Amazing!
Jennyb — you said: It makes me sick to think Cindy did nothing. Didn’t even try. Sending Lee to a nightclub/bar was what she called “trying”. That’s like Casey looking for clues at Fusion. Two peas in a pod.
Like Casey, Cindy’s first concern is always Cindy. As completely bizarre as it seems to non-narcissists, Cindy and how Cindy felt was Cindy’s primary concern. Casey was a secondary concern, simply for the way she was making Cindy feel. Caylee was only the object Cindy was missing and wanting to see.
To my recollection (and one of the things that absolutely infuriated me from the start), Cindy never once said she was afraid FOR Caylee … concerned ABOUT Caylee’s welfare … hoping CAYLEE wasn’t feeling scared, wasn’t cold or hungry or thirsty or not getting enough rest. Cindy’s public statements were about CINDY and how CINDY was holding up. She mentioned Casey only when she went on the defensive, because Casey is a reflection on CINDY, and Casey’s behavior can affect how CINDY is feeling.
Most relatives of legitimately missing children visibly muster up a bit of composure long enough to make a plea for the cameras if they have the opportunity. And almost without exception, as they reach the end of their statement, their voice breaks, their fear they is palpable and they step away before that little bit of composure is gone completely. There’s an enormous contrast between the demeanor, behavior and statements of THOSE people as compared to the Anthonys.
» Mimi said: { Jun 6, 2010 – 07:06:35 }
Another inconsistency I’ve discovered after reading comments here:
If George arrived home when Cindy was on the phone to the dispatcher during her third call and George followed Cindy into the house and Cindy gave the phone to Casey who stated that the police had arrived while still on the phone to the dispatcher…then why does George claim to have spoken to Casey for about 10 minutes?
I also believe that Cindy had the garage door open to air out the stench in the car rather than to “watch for the police to arrive” as I believe it was Maura who suggested. And that does not mean for a moment that I don’t think she’s some kind of genius, believe me, because I do.
(Just writing down thoughts that occur to me as I go along here…there is so much to learn in retrospect. I love this kind of thread; going back in time and seeing things differently from so many people.)
***
George said he only had about 10 minutes with Casey that whole night, not 10 minutes before LE arrived.
The garage door was closed when Lee got there. He said the Pontiac was inside the garage with the doors and trunk wide open, obviously to air it out. Cindy and Casey arrived a few minutes later, and it was Lee who said Cindy kept the garage door up so she would hear LE arrive. He also said she was walking in and out of the house while he was talking to Casey. All the Anthonys have said they go in and out of the house through the garage door, not through the front door.
That doesn’t mean the opened garage door didn’t also help to air out car, but if they really wanted to air out the car at that point, they would have moved the Pontiac to the driveway. The Anthonys asked LE if they could move the car out of the garage because of the odor. When the car was picked up by OCSO on July 16, it was parked on the street.
…more fodder for the ( when / if / ever / never ) did george hear of zanny :
( in addition to: civil depo: he apparently heard ofzanny back in the summer of 2007—–by the time the state depo rolls around, he changed the date to “early” (jan/feb) 2008…
george’s written stmt. july 15th @ 22:16 p.m. ( 26 minutes after arriving home at , per george, 9:50 p.m.)
ARRIVING AT 9:50PM, MY SPOUSE WAS IN OUR GARAGE, CRYING UPSET & TOLD ME THAT CAYLEE MARIE (OUR GRANDDAUGHTER) WAS MISSING, TAKEN A MONTH AGO, BY A PERSON BY THE NAME OF ZANY.
———–( a “person by the name of??? rather than—”zanny”, a person i’ve heard of since january—-or last summer…?)
state depo: page 248
BY MR. ASHTON:
Q All right. I think when we broke we were at
the house July 15th. believe you said you had about
ten minutes to talk to your daughter, and she told you
a bit of the Zanny story. Is that where we were?
A She told me a lady by the name of Zanny, or
actually her name was Zenaida Gonzalez, who drove a
silver Ford Focus, had Caylee.
Page 251
Q So after that brief — now, did she give you
any information during that brief conversation?
A Just talked about the lady’s name was Zenaida
Gonzalez, basically how tall she was, how — what her
age was. She was supposed to have been a very
attractive lady.
Q Uh-huh.
A I can’t specifically remember where she said
she was in Orlando. I can’t remember that. But I do
remember she told me about — being this car guy that I
am, she told me about she drove a silver Ford Focus. I
remember that specifically. I remember she told me
that. She said it was a newer-type car, like,
2007/2008. And I remember that specifically she told
me.
———–he talks quite a bit about the “silver ford focus” here—-as something that kc told him about that very night/next morning (july 15/16) ——perhaps i’m completely wrong, but i didn’t think we heard about “zanny’s car” until “the story” changed to the kidnapping at blanchard park?
..i don’t remember hearing the car details the 1st night..( but george sure does—-specifically!)
Ellejay:
“She was supposed to have been a very
attractive lady.”
OH FGS.
Noela I hOPE MY DAGGER WAS EXTRA SHARP while I dont know the woman personaly thankfully I hate an detest the way Cindy continues to disrespect CAYLEE an lets not forget she only ever had two birthdays an will never have another on this earth…
**********************************
Never doubted that you hoped your dagger was extra sharp, ecossie,wasn’t questioning your hate and that you detest Cindy’s ways, I know that. You misunderstood. It’s just I’d never seen Cindy’s birthday used in a comment against her. Maybe her clothes, her hair, her taste in living room furniture, her choice of having Yorkies as pets, her fondness for a certain color lime green color she favors, lmbo. But, I have to say that it was the first time I’d seen someone figure out a way to even use Cindy’s birthday in a mean comment against her, lol. So you do get a gold star for creativity. What I was trying to say in my comment was that I thought it was harsh, thinking that even the ones that hate and detest wouldn’t go there (using her birthday). That where my comment came from, not that I ever doubted how you felt about Cindy. Sorry, I should have been clearer.
For you to bring Caylee’s birthday’s up to me that she missed, telling me not to forget to me is saying that you think that I have forgotten Caylee or what she has missed.
Just because I defend Cindy and feel for her in every way, does not mean that I don’t hurt for Caylee and what she went through.
Jan, yes. It doesn’t compute at all, according to human nature.
The only way to interpret the lack of panic is Cindy knew the baby was dead.
Thus, the subject could turn naturally to herself.
Ellejay
Hi there!!! Well, I knew I was not crazy!!! Found an old article posted by Ritanita on October 12, 2008 and JB was looking for a person who took a photo of Caylee, Zanny and KC at this park (good luck on that… LOL). Was mistaken but not totally. Good thing os when you go back and read JB’s statements I understand the reasons why I dislike him!
http://sprocket-trials.blogspot.com/2008/10/casey-anthonys-attorney-jose-baez-then.html
Jennyb, that ISN’T the only way to interpret Cindy’s actions/reactions. That may be the way YOU interpret it, but it isn’t the ONLY way to interpret it.
I see it very differently to you. Perhaps one of us is right, perhaps both of us are wrong. But to state emphatically that there is only one way to interpret someone’s actions when there is no hard, fast evidence to support that interpretation (you aren’t in her head) is simply not true. You do not have a direct insight into Cindy’s motives or her thought on the matter. I do not have an insight into those things either. We can make judgements about the ‘situation as we see it’, but there is never only one way to interpret a thing you are not privy to first-hand, or a thing that is based on conjecture.
Thinking in absolutes about something that is purely interpretation seems unfair and unrealistic to me. It is equally valid to wonder if Cindy did NOT know Caylee was dead, and so was reacting in some other way than that which would purely benefit herself (as there is no firm evidence to prove what she was THINKING or what she KNEW at that time). I do not for one moment believe she did know the baby was dead and I belive very firmly that she would have reacted far differently had she known. The single thing Casey said that MAY have been true, in my mind, is that Cindy loved Caylee just that tiny bit more than she loved Casey.
Maura, thank you for the time line of the activities of George and Cindy on July 15 from when they left the tow yard through when Cindy picked up Amy. If those times are correct, and I am assuming that they are, George had no time to be involved in any of the cleanup except for removing the car battery and that probably Cindy had several hours after she got home from work until she went to pick up Amy to do all of the major cleanup. I have always assumed that George had played a bigger role in the clean up and was lying about it. It looks like Cindy did a lot of cleaning both inside and outside of the car, plus washing Casey’s cloths and cleaning Caylee’s doll that was left in the back seat of the car.
PonderingWhy said: { Jun 6, 2010 – 08:06:31 }
Hey now. This is a blog. I’m giving my opinion. Bug off.
Ok, I’ll amend that last part to say, Cindy may have loved Caylee equal to how much she loved Casey, but differently. As an example, my mother loves me with the intensity most parents feel for their children. My mother would lay down her life for me. But she loves my son in a way that encompasses a certain joy that comes from being slightly removed from the responsibilty a parent feels to the pure ‘fun’ and ‘wonderment’ a grandparent feels. It is equally valid and equally loving, but just…well…that little bit different.
Thank God Almighty for grandparents and their ‘just a bit freer’ love for their grandchildren! That’s what I am referring to when I reference the way I see Cindy loving Caylee. And I do belive she did, and still does. She just felt she had to kick into ‘save Casey because I’ve already lost Caylee’ mode. But that’s a whole different story….
Jennyb, it IS a blog. And I’m giving MY opinion. Yours may be right, mine may be right, we both may be wrong. But you spoke in an absolute, and I’m responding to that absolute.
PonderingWhy said: { Jun 6, 2010 – 08:06:10 }
Excuse me. Have we been having a conversation and somehow I missed it?
I did not attack your opinion. I have not addressed you at all. Chill.
PonderingWhy said: { Jun 6, 2010 – 08:06:14 }
Did you even read the comments between Jan and I?
Go back and read them. We’re not talking about if Cindy loved Caylee when she was alive.
I don’t know what you’re even talking about.
DONE.
@Jennyb: I’m about as ‘chilled’ as it gets.
We weren’t initially having a conversation. I was reading along, happy as you please, thinking about what each poster has said, wondering if it fit with my views, if it was outside my views, or if it was just someone venting, which we all do sometimes. When I read your post, referenced as follows:
» jennyb said: { Jun 6, 2010 – 07:06:37 }
The only way to interpret the lack of panic is Cindy knew the baby was dead.
I chose to respond by saying your ‘statement of absolute’ may not, at least in my mind, hold up to scrutiny. I feel it does not hold up to scrutiny because others here, including myself, do not interpret Cindy’s actions as you do. Some amont us do agree with your interpretation. But because not ALL of us see it exactly as you do, it stands to reason that it is untrue that ‘the only way to interpret th lack of panic is Cindy knew the baby was dead.”
It is fair for me to address that comment. I do not state that my interpretation is the only interpretation, nor do I state that you are wrong in your interpretation. I simply state that you are wrong in your ABSOLUTE interpretation. Your intrepretation is NOT the only way to interpret Cindy’s motives or knowlege. It is just ONE way to interpret it. No more, no less.
sorry, not some ‘amount’ us, but some ‘among’ us. Must be a bit too chilled!
Well my interpretation assumes Cindy loved Caylee VERY MUCH. And the reason she didn’t panic and cry and wail and hyperventilate and worry about Caylee’s possible suffering in the hands of kidnappers to the press is because she knew Caylee was in a far better place.
I think it was rather nice of me, now that I think about it.
Up thread Maura stated “Casey and Cindy talked for 25 minutes on July 8 and for 19 minutes on July 10.”
Those are long conversations. What do you suppose they had to talk about? With all that was going on I find it hard to believe Casey would have spent that much time on the phone with Cindy.
Well, there you go! See? Now that we’ve had a good chat about it I can understand your interpretation is based on the belief Cindy feels Caylee is better off murdered than kidnapped! I would not have known you thought that had we not had a good back-and-forth about it.
So…fair enough. You feel Cindy may possibly think Cayee is better off dead than kidnapped. It’s a unique interpretation, but a creative one, and I can respect that. I may not agree, but I can certainly appreciate the though you’ve put into it.
All disagreement aside, I do appreciate you have strong feelings about Cindy Anthony. I wonder if they pass through your own filter, as mind do when I come to conculsions about this case. I assume they do, so while I do not agree with your views I respect that you hold them most firmly and you’re not wimpy about putting them forward. I have great respect for that, even if I don’t agree with the final result.
Geez…clearly too chilled. Change though to thought in the sentence “I can appreciate the thought you’ve put into it.”
“So…fair enough. You feel Cindy may possibly think Cayee is better off dead than kidnapped.”
WHAT?
OK, I need a break.
Jennyb { Jun 6, 2010 – 08:06:10 } –
I sure wasn’t talking about Cindy’s “love.” Narcissists aren’t capable of it, from what I’ve seen.
“NARCISSISTS ARE PEOPLE WHO never learned to make it on their own. Except for their fantasies of perfection, envy of others who have what they lack, and unacknowledged fears of humiliation, they are empty on the inside. They have no real Self to bring to a relationship with another person, but they desperately need someone else to join them in their emptiness and help them maintain emotional equilibrium. The ideal candidate is someone willing to become an extension of the Narcissist’s fragile ego, to serve as an object of admiration, contempt, or often enough both. The sign over their door ought to read: Abandon Self All Ye Who Enter Here.”
I found that quote here: http://www.echo.me.uk/npd4.htm
… but apparently it is contained in this book: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0743214285?ie=UTF8&tag=echomeuk-21&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=6738&creativeASIN=0743214285 …
The title of which, “Why Is It Always About You,” is I would imagine a familiar refrain at Casa Anthony, rife as that family is with narcissists.
Stef:
I noticed that too awhile back and always wondered if the SA caught that as well. She does say a few times someone by the name of Zanny has Caylee and she is so comfortable saying it too. They are consistent but so are we and they know we know. Most people that do give them the benefit in this case have to be abnormal IMO.
Jan,
LOL. Well, love Anthony-style anyway.
I certainly don’t think she was Gramma of the Year by any stretch.
» jennyb said: { Jun 6, 2010 – 08:06:25 }
And the reason she didn’t panic and cry and wail and hyperventilate and worry about Caylee’s possible suffering in the hands of kidnappers to the press is because she knew Caylee was in a far better place.
*************
» jennyb said: { Jun 6, 2010 – 09:06:54 }
“So…fair enough. You feel Cindy may possibly think Cayee is better off dead than kidnapped.”
WHAT?
*********************
Did I misunderstand this? Perhaps I did. When I read your statement (first one, above) it sounds to me like you’re saying Cindy felt ‘Caylee was in a far better place’ than she would be if she were ‘suffering at the hands of kidnappers”.
Did I read that wrong? If so, please feel free to correct me. I’m open to being wrong, and I’m open to being teachable.
PonderingWhy said: { Jun 6, 2010 – 09:06:15 }
I’m saying, Cindy being the ultimate pragmatist was not going to wail and scream and worry about Caylee’s well-being when she was being interviewed BECAUSE SHE KNEW CAYLEE WAS DEAD.
There I said it.
I believe Cindy loved Caylee in her way. But Caylee was “no more”. THEREFORE, she was free to talk about HERSELF and her own needs NON-STOP. Instead of what you would see in 99.9% of these types of cases where the family members are HYSTERICAL thinking about their baby suffering and not knowing where they were or how they were being treated.
ASSUMING Cindy loved Caylee and seeing she was not crying out for help to find the baby, had the date of her disappearance off by a week, told tipsters NOT to call LE but to call her, had the wrong date and phone number plastered on posters and the Caylee-mobile…
Treating TES and LE like DIRT.
Gee, do I have to go on and on?
These are not the NORMAL reactions of someone who wants their baby found.
SO ERGO. I believe she knew Caylee was dead.
GEEZ.
Fair enough! I’m happy to agree to disagree, and I wish you a very restful evening. God forbid you should ‘go on and on’!
“I shoulda given them the dog’s toothbrush!”
HARDEE HAR HAR.
PonderingWhy said: { Jun 6, 2010 – 09:06:11 }
OK Pondering. Why do you think Cindy gave no help to LE and why do you think she showed no anxiety at what Caylee might be suffering at the hands of the kidnappers?
You’re very good at “agreeing to disagree” but I’d like to know your reasoning.
MAURA -
» Anna said: { Jun 6, 2010 – 08:06:30 }
Maura, thank you for the time line of the activities of George and Cindy on July 15 from when they left the tow yard through when Cindy picked up Amy. If those times are correct, and I am assuming that they are, George had no time to be involved in any of the cleanup except for removing the car battery and that probably Cindy had several hours after she got home from work until she went to pick up Amy to do all of the major cleanup. I have always assumed that George had played a bigger role in the clean up and was lying about it. It looks like Cindy did a lot of cleaning both inside and outside of the car, plus washing Casey’s cloths and cleaning Caylee’s doll that was left in the back seat of the car.
****************
Thank You from me too! I was fuzzy on details. The blogosphere is enriched by “Maura-pedia”, that’s for certain ! Don’t know what we’d do without you…or Val.
Pondering — I think it might be to your benefit to assume when we post here that each of us is speaking for ourselves, not for others.
When Jennyb said: The only way to interpret the lack of panic is Cindy knew the baby was dead.
… I assumed that to mean that’s the only way Jennyb can reasonably it. She’s not interpreting for me. Or for you.
Sometimes we may seem to speak in absolutes because blessedly, we’re not required to do the IMO, JMO, MOO disclaimers here that other forums so tediously insist upon.
But I think it’s safe to say that in general, what people post on forums like this is their opinion, unless they’re quoting others, citing sources and that sort of thing.
Jennyb — I actually don’t think Cindy needed to believe Caylee was dead — out of sight, out of mind — in order to blather on about herself at every opportunity. It’s how she rolls. As does her daughter.
shyloh – thanks for your thanks too dear
Jan:
“Sometimes we may seem to speak in absolutes because blessedly, we’re not required to do the IMO, JMO, MOO disclaimers here that other forums so tediously insist upon.”
That’s true, and in all honesty I’ve been lazy about adding the MOO’s. It’s become assumed (at least I thought it was).
Thanks for bringing that up.
I’ve had my grandkids live with me for a period of about six months. During that time, if my son had taken them unexpectedly and abruptly, I would have demanded to know what was going on since they had a routine worked out here. Not only would it be important to me to know where they are going to be and when, it’s very important to the kids as they require structure and need to be eased into a change of living arrangements. If I had no idea where the children were, after calling every friend and acquaintence, I would then call the police to ease my mind and locate them. I certainly wouldn’t wait till almost three weeks later to visit the work place of the mother who had this child/children . Considering Cindy harrassed Casey endlessly when she was caring for Caylee, why not make the same effort to find a two year-old baby who’s been out of sight for a month. Her lack of initiative is very suspicious, in my opinion. It’s almost like she knew it was a lost cause. Cindy herself said that Casey was a sociopath. How many grandmothers would allow a sociopath to ‘care for’ a child let alone keep her out of sight for an entire month ?
When Casey and Caylee left, normal parents/grandparents would have counted the days and weeks since they were last seen. One would think George and Cindy would have discussed this and said that it’s been a day, a week or a month since they last saw their loved one. Considering Caylee was such a big part of their lives, I can’t understand their lack of concern – unless they knew it was too late.This was not a casual event and it would have stood out in the mind of anyone who missed their loved ones. As far as I’m concerned, Cindy, if not George, knew the date but lied about it then mimicked each others’ timeline. This raises suspicion even more since they both obviously ‘agreed’ to it. To quote Cindy, “we’re talking about a two year old child here”. Where the hell was this concern for an entire month?
jenny b -
by the time the 2 parental units of CMA arrived for their first jailhouse visit, they were steeped into creating a Foundation that carried Caylee’s name; you could see non-verbal behavior of C indicating the kind of emotional stress when you are in mourning for someone but must continue to “maintain face” publicly…others might interpret it instead as stress in dealing w/a missing child, but that’s not what my intuition tells me.
(…..if a child is missing, in the first week or two of hearing the news from your daughter, would you have created a Foundation already, like the CMA parental units ???….look at Mark Klaas, or Natalee Holloway – did they create a Foundation in the initial period their children were missing, or did it take some time, as in months or at least 1 month: learning whether their children were alive, well, injured, or dead? )
there’s other evidence that points to C knowing or having a pretty darn good idea that Caylee was never coming back after smelling the stench & after CMA couldn’t “produce her”…but it’s both intuitive & my own opinion.
JMHO.
Sierra. ITA.
MOO JMO JMHO, etc.
I have been reading the comments and I have a couple of questions floating around in my head(its pretty empty in there…lots of room to move around) anyways… was there ever any statements from kc or LE concerning what happened when kc went to pick up caylee from sawgrass…..did kc go beat on the door of zany’s apartment or did she see it was empty and run to the management office and demand to know when zany moved out and if she had left a forwarding address….or was there a note hanging on the railing telling her to have fun for 31 days then your mom will find you and the sheit will hit the fan?
ok maybe more than a couple….sorry
Jan, Jennyb & Pondering:
I agree that we should remember that we have just about as many opinions as we have posters & should not be attacked because we forget to say ‘IMO’ or whatever.
On that note…..IMO, Cindy knew Caylee was dead & there was nothing she could do about it so she tried to cover-up & mislead everyone because she was horrified that we would find out that Casey murdered her. And to be perfectly honest, IMO, when Cindy, a narcissist, saw that she could make lots of dollars & get lots of attention for herself, she put herself above Casey even. Cindy has only continued to act nutty & support Casey because it gets her lots of attention. Cindy started talking about writing a book early in the case. Have people forgotten the media tape of Cindy & George, early in the case, leaving from LE office, jail or somewhere & they start running from the media & Cindy is LAUGHING??? Whoa, that was bizarre! IMO, Cindy is a fake!
sorry – meant Beth Holloway
Eastcoastdeb { Jun 6, 2010 – 09:06:24 } –
Great reading … thanks!
Don’t know whether you’ve tortured yourself with a complete reading of part 1 of Cindy’s deposition with the state dated July 2009, but Linda Drane Burdick tried several different approaches with Cindy in an effort to determine what Caylee’s daily life was like — her schedule, her routine, what she liked to do, her little 2 year-old habits and interests and such.
I’m telling you, reading that was like watching someone try to nail Cindy flavored jello to a tree . I came away with the distinct impression Caylee had no particular structure. Bedtime was “somewhere between 8:30pm and 9:30pm,” per Cindy. Late for a 2 year-old, imo. She was on her own for breakfast many mornings — grabbed a sippy cup of milk, poured the night before I gathered, and she could get her own cereal and cheese from the fridge. She could also put her own videos in and watch them while she ate. Alone. At 2.
Jan:
That was sad, wasn’t it? It made me see that there was a lazy mother & lazy grandparents in that house! It was also dangerous to let Caylee be unsupervised, IMO.
When I was kid I had the fear of God put in me. Church was every Sunday no matter what. The worse thing we could ever do as human beings was to tell lies and steal these were actions that never held a good enough excuse no matter what. If we lied there was such a high price to pay. The elderlies were always the first to know because it was that big of a deal. The little white lies were never acceptable and us kids really couldn’t keep anything to ourselves. C&G had to discuss KC’s lying for many years and possibly laughed about it behind closed doors at times. KC’sies were rarely insignificant and IMO she was never taught RESPECT for her elders. I have friends that only had one sibling and these families are so close to each other. They have so much support of each other and criminal activity isn’t even ever an issue.
Who are these people? I hope the grandma can shed light into this in trial. This isn’t something that just happened. This took YEARS of work and the desire to master it and it really blows my mind. Even in school if a teacher caught you lingering in the hall and asked you where you were suppose to be you had concern that we were doing wrong and it mattered to us. It seems it never mattered to the A’s that soooooo many people including themselves knew KC was just a liar and a big liar. CA answering Amy’s questions in route to TL’s and confirming KC is a liar to a friend of hers with no problems and actually hearing herself say it out loud on a regular basis was never a problem for CA, but having your grand-daughter missing for 31 days wasn’t either, knowing that all these lies are in her face just as they are in KC’s and denying even the lies that are so blatantly proveable has got to be second nature. These two people are creatures of habit IMO.
L. Smith — so utterly sad. I still don’t know where to put that information. It just keeps knocking around in my head, reminding me of Caylee’s short and not-so-sweet life here on earth.
I realize way too many children have it a lot worse (while alive) than Caylee did … but come on. All the money spent buying *stuff* … all the time spent cleaning and *detailing* … texting and calling and IM’ing … collecting cute phrases and stuffed pandas and other nonsense … all the time spent in lies and manipulation, thievery and game playing, fighting and one upping each other. Just no time left over for a 2 year-old, I guess.
Sunnydeeds — you said: The worse thing we could ever do as human beings was to tell lies and steal these were actions that never held a good enough excuse no matter what. If we lied there was such a high price to pay.
Same here. It starts with the lies. Always, the lies.
If KC had never gotten caught and C&G had had an opportunity to keep this henious secret do you think KC would have gotten grounded for the rest of her life at 21? I mean these people would have gone to such high extremes to protect their image and Caylee would have ceased to have ever been. Look at what they have done to show us this at every opportune.
We owe Cindy a “thanks” for caring about her car and her credit cards because we would never have known Caylee was killed.
@FRG: To my recollection, it was Cindy who said that she had a picture of Caylee
in Zenaida’s apartment – but it actually was Ricardo’s and this was proven because
in the background was a drum he had at his place that Caylee played with.
I’d like to see a bit more chilling if we could get to that mode.
I speak in absolutes a lot of times too. It goes without saying I don’t have a damned clue what really happened, so my opinion is worth squat on speculative matters.
I’m okay with you not having to say “in my opinion”. But I’m also okay with other posters coming and saying – I don’t agree with you stating that as a fact….just as pondering did. (or Maura does to me very often). That SHOULD make us back up and think about things. Not get pissed. So don’t take some one disagreeing with you as a personal affront. Maybe a better practice would be when some one disagrees and the first reaction is to get snippy – that means you should take the time to re-read and contemplate what they have said. Because there may be something in there that can help you develop a fuller view of the situation.
It is clear to me that delving into the long string of lies (we even started out arguing about the use of that word, if you’ll recall) that have issued from the Anthonys will cause emotions to flare and people to get “touchier”. Let’s be cognizant of that and try to maintain our critical thinking, and keep open minds. And above all, let’s aim for debate…not heated argument.
There have been a number of comments on this thread that have been EXTREMELY eye opening to me on inconsistencies by the Anthonys that I had not noticed before. I am grateful for those posters sharing their observations. I look forward to continuing these installments to see what else others can show me that I hadn’t seen before.
I really believe that if CA had not made the 911 calls C&G&L&KC would all be saying Caylee is in a 2 year old camp getting music lessons, ballet lessons, singing lessons for the rest of their lives and would have happily accepted the fact that their whole entire lives would be a LIE. Caylee being found and KC being convicted might let them see that not EVERYONE can or is wrong. There will never be any truth from them because they still have the rest of their lives to lie.
Nauseated said: { Jun 6, 2010 – 08:06:02 }
Up thread Maura stated “Casey and Cindy talked for 25 minutes on July 8 and for 19 minutes on July 10.”
Those are long conversations. What do you suppose they had to talk about? With all that was going on I find it hard to believe Casey would have spent that much time on the phone with Cindy.
……………….per the timeline here on the hinky…,( kc’s current BFF/person to steal from)– amy– had left ON the 8th–
-we KNOW kc didn’t have a child to take care of by then, kc certainly didn’t have “a job” to go to, tony had only been back a few days, possibly had homework to do—–
..so—-kc calls cindy . ( george had also spoken to kc the morning of the 8th for 5 minutes——–maybe a “call your mother!!!?)
( it maybe took those 25 minutes for kc to smooth over the events of july 3rd, when cindy sent lee ut looking for her?)
..also——having listened to a “cindy interview”——19—-or 25–minutes , is a drop in the bucket of blabbering away for her!
timeline—–july 8th and 10th…
8 –
9:05 am GA calls KC, 5 minute conversation.
11:59 am KC makes $111.01 purchase at Target using AH’s checkbook
3:42 pm KC attempts to call Anthony home.
AH leaves for Puerto Rico and leaves her car with KC. JH says he saw KC out drinking with a bunch of guys. One was SD.
10 –
10:33 am KC makes $137.77 purchase at Target using AH’s checkbook (University and Goldenrod) goes shopping with AH’s stolen check book at Target.
12:00 pm KC goes grocery shopping and makes $155.47 purchase at Target using AH’s checkbook .
7:40 pm attempt to call KC from Anthony home.
7:42 pm KC calls Anthony home, 19 minute conversation. KC claims she got her car back from the shop in Jacksonville. She tells CA her and JH will be returning the 12th.
P.S. Disclaimer added to footer of website.
» FRG said: { Jun 6, 2010 – 08:06:55 }
Ellejay
Hi there!!! Well, I knew I was not crazy!!! Found an old article posted by Ritanita on October 12, 2008 …..
http://sprocket-trials.blogspot.com/2008/10/casey-anthonys-attorney-jose-baez-then.html
…hey there! glad i could help—to confirm that YOU are not crazy! it’s TFC!
..great article! by the way——hadn’t read that before..thanks.
Val — I think it’s almost always HOW something is said vs. WHAT is said.
Pondering didn’t say, per your post, “I don’t agree with you stating that as fact.” What she said was: “Jennyb, that ISN’T the only way to interpret Cindy’s actions/reactions. That may be the way YOU interpret it, but it isn’t the ONLY way to interpret it.”
Same message, more or less, but very different delivery.
To your point, emotions will run high as we delve deeper into our encycliepedia studies. If I can suggest a different approach, leaving the personal references out altogether and simply starting responses with, “The way I see it …” or something along those lines, might be a good way to keep a nice polite lid on things.
Or not. Your place, your rules.
» Valhall said: { Jun 6, 2010 – 10:06:00 }
P.S. Disclaimer added to footer of website.
CUTE VAL!!!!
IMO the A’s actually treated Caylee’s death as a business or corporation IMO they lost nothing and gain wealth and fortune. I mean they chose to take their losses in order to gain and gain they did. Has anyone seen the commercial for cable and the 100 dollar finder’s fee you get when someone signs up and gives your name and the guy answers his door and his friends come in and their faces turn to Benjamin Franklins? This is what I think the A’s did and will always do.
I tend to speak bluntly, so I didn’t take pondering’s delivery as abrasive. But then, others take me abrasive so I’m not sure I’ve got good litmus paper on these things.
But to add to that…I didn’t take jenny’s statement the way pondering did, so that shows you that we all view with different filters, different thought-processes and the cool thing is if we can keep our heads, we can bring all those unique perspectives together and getter a better handle on things. We MUST allow opposing views – that’s the abridged version.
All’s good! I’ve really enjoyed this thread – every single comment. It has been a VERY informative discussion. Lots of eye-openers on this one.
Jan:
“She was on her own for breakfast many mornings — grabbed a sippy cup of milk, poured the night before I gathered, and she could get her own cereal and cheese from the fridge. She could also put her own videos in and watch them while she ate. Alone. At 2.”
……………and yet, when george and cindy brought these facts up——it was as if they were BRAGGING about “how advanced” she was!
..instead of admitting that their lazy-ass daughter was sleeping ( after being up all night texting –or from dragging in at 2 in the a.m.) , so caylee had to fend for herself. pathetic.
Ellejay –
The bragging to Linda DB is a good example of how troublesome the mix of arrogance and stupidity can be.
Linda is a mother herself, as she stated in that depo, and by way of trying to help Cindy give coherent answers, she cited examples of the phases her own daughter went through, which toys and characters she liked at what ages — stuff like that.
But shallow Cindy, who couldn’t recount that sort of information about her own daughter much less Caylee, couldn’t think the situation through well enough to realize LDB was looking for how Caylee was NURTURED by her family, not how she was left to her own 2 year-old devices, for God’s sake.
But in the end, Linda got all the information she needed, and then some. And I imagine many of her suspicions about Caylee’s life were confirmed as Cindy bragged about the insanity in that household.
Sigh. I think they’re all just horribly habitual, with the exception of Casey who’s perplexingly pathological; but that’s just my most humble opinion. Perhaps it’s not so much that they “intended” to lie, so most of the time; they just don’t know how not to.
Now back to catching up, so needing a break from ROVs and POVs and risers and flanges; with a note to Val:
YES! I have been waiting months for this! The inconsistencies have been driving me nuts!
So tell me, will you be addressing the events surrounding the night of June 15th through June 16, and that little matter of Cindy hearing Casey and Caylee sleeping, whereas George has he and Cindy making Caylee breakfast the morning of the 16th, as well as the cooking show that George said he watched, but how could he have done that when it wasn’t on? Do they … Tivo?
Did George carry Caylee out to the car, or did he not? Was all of that a mere misremembrance, or a deliberate attempt to cover up the fact that no one saw Caylee on the 16th, with the exception of, perhaps, Casey?
This is gonna be good! Though you may well be bonkers by the time you’re done! I mean, who the heck could spend so much time dwelving into the mottled minds of the Anthony’s and come out unscathed? Then again, if any one can, you can!
Back to reading. Only half way through this. Thanks, Val.
moi
Mimi:
“but he can’t tell them who Zany is…
(A PERSON BY THE NAME OF ZANY)
Why not? Isn’t she,
(CAYLEE’S BABYSITTER)…?
So, he, in my opinion has no idea who Zany is and any statements by the A’s about knowing all about her for years…
(BULLSH*T)”
——exactly——-george has sooooooo many discrepancies in his “zanny” stories——i don’t know if even HE knows which is the “correct one of the moment”.
..i tend to beleive what he said the very 1st night in his written stmt. ……” a person by the name of…..”
..that stmt. screams “stranger”, definitely “someone you’ve never heard of before”—-yet as interviews and depos progress, his “memory” becomes clearer…..( as does cindy’s ) ——suddenly, they’ve been talking around the home about zanny for years!
( to the point that cindy “now remembers” kc giving her, on a regular basis, new ph. #’s , addresses, for zanny………
…UNbelievable.
i find it really sad how lonely little Caylee must have been
chokes me up
Jan said: { Jun 6, 2010 – 11:06:42 }
Ellejay –
The bragging to Linda DB is a good example of how troublesome the mix of arrogance and stupidity can be.
……………great reply. ( please don’t be shocked when i use that “arrogance/stupidity mixture” ——in describing cindy in the future!
» marlene said: { Jun 6, 2010 – 10:06:24 }
I have been reading the comments and I have a couple of questions floating around in my head(its pretty empty in there…lots of room to move around) anyways… was there ever any statements from kc or LE concerning what happened when kc went to pick up caylee from sawgrass…..did kc go beat on the door of zany’s apartment or did she see it was empty and run to the management office and demand to know when zany moved out and if she had left a forwarding address….or was there a note hanging on the railing telling her to have fun for 31 days then your mom will find you and the sheit will hit the fan?
ok maybe more than a couple….sorry
……………..kc’s stmt. to OCSO july 15th.
Q-Okay. Get off of work and go from there.
A-I got off of work, left Universal, driving back to pick up Caylee, like a normal day. And I show up to the
apartment, knock on the door. Nobody answers. So, I called Zenaida’s cell phone and it’s out of service.
Says that the phone is no longer in service. Excuse me. So, I sit down on the steps and wait for a little
bit to see if maybe it was just a fluke, if something happened.
And time passed, I didn’t hear from
anyone. No one showed up to the house, so I went over to Jay Blanchard Park and checked a couple
other places where maybe, possibly, they would’ve gone. A couple stores, just regular places that I
know Zenaida shops at and she’s taken Caylee before. And after about 7 o’clock when I still hadn’t
heard anything, I was getting pretty upset, pretty frantic. And I went to a neutral place. I didn’t really
want to come home, I wasn’t sure what I’d say about not knowing where Caylee was. Still hoping that I
would get a call, or you know, find out that Caylee was coming back, so that I could go get her. And I
ended up going to my boyfriend, Anthony’s house, who lives in Sutton Place.
Q-Did you talk to Anthony about um, what happened with Caylee?
A-No, I did not.
………….so——–no, kc did not go and beat on the door ( like a normal person) or immediatley call the police! ( like a normal person) or go to the management office and ask “WTF????” ( like a normal person).
…………instead—–she thought “it was maybe a fluke” ——-so she went to a couple of stores, a park, and then “neutral place” (tony’s apt.)
..where——-thankgod! she was able to “get over it” by going out to rent movies and begin her month of “sleeping over”, here, there, and with whomever–until july 15th.
I had no idea that Caylee was unsupervised to the degree stated above. It seems that Caylee was more of an inconvenience than a welcome addition to the ‘family.’ If this is the case, I’m wondering how safe she really ever was in that household. When Casey was on the phone or computer, was Caylee just left to her own curious devices. Any mother knows that kids will get into anything that isn’t nailed down or locked up. Is it possible that she got into Cindy’s meds or some toxic cleaning agents herself? In Wendy Murphy’s article “The Evidence We Aren’t Allowed to See”, she elaborates on the search warrant obtained by LE that authorized them to remove sedatives from the Anthony home. Wendy states that in order for the judge to issue this warrant, there would need to be a belief that these drugs were somehow related to Caylee’s death. Although most evidence points to a deliberate act, Cindy’s involvement in the cover up has always made me wonder if she felt somehow responsible. It doesn’t necessarily mean she caused the death but possibly feels her neglect contributed to it. Cindy’s defiance in accepting any accountablility for her own actions as well as refusing to allow Casey to do so has always made me feel that her own guilt (whether justified or not) has played a role in the cover up.
» Stef said: { Jun 6, 2010 – 03:06:39 }
Here’s something that caught my eye…
And that’s when she told me that Caylee was missing; Caylee had been taken. And she said someone by the name of Zanny had her and Casey was inside with Lee.
SOMEONE BY THE NAME OF ZANNY HAD HER?????? We’re supposed to believe that Caylee’s nanny of 2+ years has kidnapped Caylee and Cindy tells George “Someone by the name of Zanny had her”. Why is it worded that way? Why isn’t it’ Zanny the nanny has Caylee’? They way that Cindy says it, she’s only hearing the name Zanny for the first time in her life. This is not a woman who has been watching Caylee for 2+ years. This is a new character that Casey has suddenly introduced to her family, IMO.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Oh, wow, Stef…that’s the best proof yet. You nailed that one.
I had not read that Caylee would/could get up on her own. How sad and dangerous. No wonder Cindy was worried about how much hydrogen peroxide Caylee could safely consume. What a moron.
Poor Caylee. So lonely. I hope the stories George tells about going for walks with her happened a lot. I hope the pictures of her swimming and laughing with Cindy happened a lot.
Maura —-While we are on this subject – - awhile ago I was quoting something from Charles Crittenden’s interview (co-worker of Cindy) and you stated that much of his recollection was faulty. In his interview (in searchable discovery) he states that he and co-workers heard about Zany from Cindy beginning in the fall of 2007 I believe. Do you think that part of his story is false, and if so, can you tell us why it is false? TIA
» ellejay said: { Jun 6, 2010 – 07:06:43 }
_______________________________________________________________
civil depo: page 18
Q Have you ever seen a picture of Zanny?
A No, I haven’t.
Q Now, I wanted to clarify –
A But I have a picture in my head from
descriptions from the last two and a half years.
________________________________________________________________
My question is, who in the heck has to SPECIFY “from the last two and a half years”. I mean, REALLY? Those Anthony’s just keep bolstering their lies by adding in comments like this, as though it proves they knew Zani. Wouldn’t it have been enough to simply say…I had a picture in my head from Casey’s description? This whole family has such a bizarre way of speaking, always in circles and mega tons of extra info.
Maura said: { Jun 6, 2010 – 07:06:42 }
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Thanks for the clarifications! Me brain don’t bend and stretch so easily as yours…
My daughter is only a couple years younger that Casey. Thank God she hasn’t blessed me with a grandchild yet. Hopefully one day this will happen, but hopefully not for a few more years. It feels like just yesterday that she was a little girl Caylee’s age. That was the happiest time of my life. It must be so hard for G and C to have lost both girls. Caylee was at such a wonderful delightful age and also they have the memories of Casey at that age as well. I wonder what Casey’s life was like back then. Did Cindy work? Who looked after Casey? I have seen so many pictures of Caylee. Why none of Casey? I’ve seen a yearbook picture and Ric’s wedding picture, but nothing prior. Have I missed them? If I haven’t missed them any idea why none have been released? Are they all just happy good baby pictures of Casey and the DF might not want us to know her life was good growing up? I have oodles of pics of my daughter growing up. I’m surprised Cindy hasn’t shown the world through pics of what good parents they were to her.
According to the Timeline, Casey called Cindy at 12:58 p.m. on July 15th (a 3 minute conversation), and Casey received a call from Cindy at 1:11 p.m. (90 seconds long). I was looking at the ping map for July 15th, and Casey’s phone pinged at a cell tower in the area of Tony’s apartment (Ping 16) when she received the call from Cindy, but then she was on the move. Pings 18 and 19 are in the area of the Sawgrass Apartments. I think she drove in a north/northwest direction after she left the Sawgrass Apatments and drove past Ricardo’s apartment, and then she drove in a south/southeast direction, and then south/southwest, and she may have passed by the Sawgrass Apartments again before going to the tattoo shop.
I know I didn’t explain that well, so here’s the link to the ping map:
http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=en&ie=UTF8&msa=0&msid=103915041605280294744.00045adc48fb78793d1bd&ll=28.527829,-81.314621&spn=0.271474,0.433273&t=h&z=11
IMO, when Cindy talked to Casey on the phone, she may have told her that she was going to be calling the police that day, and Casey went to or by the Sawgrass Apartments to choose the apartment that she was going to say she had dropped Caylee off at, and then she drove around the area of Ricardo’s apartment to choose the apartment building that she was going say Zanny had previously lived in.
ellejay said: { Jun 6, 2010 – 11:06:13 }
Mimi:
“but he can’t tell them who Zany is…
(A PERSON BY THE NAME OF ZANY)
Why not? Isn’t she,
(CAYLEE’S BABYSITTER)…?
So, he, in my opinion has no idea who Zany is and any statements by the A’s about knowing all about her for years…
(BULLSH*T)”
——exactly——-george has sooooooo many discrepancies in his “zanny” stories——i don’t know if even HE knows which is the “correct one of the moment”.
..i tend to beleive what he said the very 1st night in his written stmt. ……” a person by the name of…..”
..that stmt. screams “stranger”, definitely “someone you’ve never heard of before”—-yet as interviews and depos progress, his “memory” becomes clearer…..( as does cindy’s ) ——suddenly, they’ve been talking around the home about zanny for years!
( to the point that cindy “now remembers” kc giving her, on a regular basis, new ph. #’s , addresses, for zanny………
…UNbelievable.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ellejay,
More like unbe-LIE-vable!
You said it well.
None of us, in the trauma of a moment, refers to “someone by the name of……” or “a person named……” when it it someone with which we have a degree of daily familiarity.
Those are Freudian slips that tell the truth. At worst, C & G should have unthinkingly referred to Zanny the Nanny as “Caylee’s nanny” or “Caylee’s babysitter.” After all, Caylee lived in their home, and they were familiar with her contacts and her routines on a daily basis. The very way that they refer to “Zanny” (esp. in the 911 call background) as a barely known name/person, speaks volumes as to their initial truthfulness.
IMO, this is key to Casey’s initial story:
Casey NEVER claimed Zanny was a NEW presence in their lives.
And NONE of Casey’s family, friends, or acquaintenaces had ever met, seen, drank a beer with, or photographed her.
My parents live 1000 miles away from me, and if queried about my child’s caregivers, would be able to give a more definitive answer about the person/ people who care for her. And they see my daughter, at best, twice a year.
So, as far as George’s words and behaviors regarding the Pontiac. There is NO question in my mind that he had serious concerns when he learned the car was in impound. These concerns magnified when he located the car, and was processed thru the paperwork to claim it.
The other incident that makes NO sense to me is when Cindy went looking for Casey and Caylee. It is quite clear to me that by then she knew something was VERY, VERY wrong with the supervision and nurturing of Caylee. She DID NOT believe a single word, text, email, or smoke signal from Casey. I think she KNEW something very bad had occurred involving Caylee.
And I believe she KNEW that the “something bad” was directly at the hands of Casey. And so the obfuscation/ lying bloomed.
eastcoastdeb said: { Jun 6, 2010 – 11:06:55 }
“I had no idea that Caylee was unsupervised to the degree stated above.”
karen lee said: { Jun 7, 2010 – 12:06:11 }
“I had not read that Caylee would/could get up on her own.”
Cindy—state depo—-page 90
A“…as she got older, she could get her own
breakfast. She could go in and get a cup of cereal and
go in and watch her movies, put them in herself and
watch them.
Q You let her pour milk?
A No. We’d usually have a sippy cup ready for
her.
Q Okay.
A She could open the refrigerator and get stuff
out. She’d open up the bin and get cheese out and
whatever she wanted.”
Page 202
Q You talked about Caylee being able to get her
own breakfast, open the fridge, operate the TV.
A Uh-huh.
Q Did you have a VCR or a DVD player?
A Yes. She could do the DVD and VCR as well.
Q So she was able — she had enough dexterity
to –
A Oh, absolutely.
– do all of those things?
A Yeah.
..she could do the dvd AND vcr players! absolutely!( “if you want to watch a movie—-pay attention——and learn—–i’m not getting up to do it for you.”
..put movies in and watch them—-by herself! ( what fun).
..( they DID draw the line at her pouring her own milk—–after all THAT would have made a mess on the floor..)
KZ:
“……And NONE of Casey’s family, friends, or acquaintenaces had ever met, seen, drank a beer with…..
….She DID NOT believe a single word, text, email, or—– smoke signal—- from Casey.”
………………….drank a beer with……rec’d a smoke signal from……..love that. ( it’s like you’re canadian.)
…seriously though:
KC: “My parents live 1000 miles away from me, and if queried about my child’s caregivers, would be able to give a more definitive answer about the person/ people who care for her. And they see my daughter, at best, twice a year.”
no kidding!
..3 of my sisters have young grandchildren in daycare/babysitter situations. they all live hundreds of miles away from me———-and i know the names of all of their “nanny’s”. AND how the daycare operates…..AND what they did last week….AND how the “jell-o flowers-for-mothers-day ‘flopped”…..and, and , and…..
Karen Lee, I’m sure Casey’s life was a miserable one. A person doesn’t get to the point that she did by being a ‘happy camper’. I’m not saying she’s not guilty or has any defense because I feel she knew exactly what she was doing and that the murder served as a personal gratification for Casey. However, I do feel that at one time, Casey was an innocent. She was once a child who should have been nurtured in the same manner that Caylee should have been. The difference is that Casey had nineteen years longer to be conditioned and moulded into the revolting trainwreck we see today.
I hope no one takes this the wrong way because I hold Casey completely responsible for Caylee’s murder, but considering what a pathological liar Casey is, doesn’t it seem odd that most of the lies have originated from Cindy?
Ellejay, thank you for the quotes from the depo. It’s good to know what kind of ‘upbringing’ Caylee received. Maybe ‘Nanny’ was the nickname for the VCR or DVD player. Pathetic. I wonder if she did her own laundry too. These people are unbelievable.
» Sunnydeeds said: { Jun 6, 2010 – 10:06:09 }
I really believe that if CA had not made the 911 calls C&G&L&KC would all be saying Caylee is in a 2 year old camp getting music lessons, ballet lessons, singing lessons for the rest of their lives and would have happily accepted the fact that their whole entire lives would be a LIE. Caylee being found and KC being convicted might let them see that not EVERYONE can or is wrong. There will never be any truth from them because they still have the rest of their lives to lie.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
…and argue and punish each other, too.
Casey: “it’s your fault I killed her.”
Cindy: “No, sweetheart, it’s your fault you did what you did.”
Casey: “You never listen to me…it’s your fault.”
George: “Well, I think that….”
Cindy: “Oh shut up George. That’s the problem around here…you try to think.”
George: “No, YOU’RE the one who tries to think.”
Thanks Ellejay. How pathetic. It wasn’t like Casey was working night shifts and from what I’ve read, she didn’t go out a whole lot or very late while while both girls lived at home. Lazy cow had to get Grandma to pre-pour milk for that poor baby. AND, what kind of cheese was she eating??? My cheese comes in bricks that require a knife and a cutting board and even then that is often less effort that removing the plastic from the Kraft singles. So, unless Grandma prepared the cheese, I call BS on that too. And is Cindy saying that Caylee could make herself a bowl of cereal using the milk in her sippy cup? God, I’m all for independance, but this is too much. Everyone is sleeping or working. Caylee gets up by herself, mixes a bowl of cereal, then either plops down on the kitchen floor to eat it or wobbles it into the living room, puts in a Dora DVD and chows down? As if. More like Caylee gets up by herself, gets her milk, starts a movie and waits for someone to feed her.
Eastcoastdeb, I love the term “revolting trainwreck”. I’m a weirdo and I love certain words. I am adding “revolting” to my mental list of loved words. I must try to use that more. Revolting… I love the way it slowly rolls off my tongue and the first syllable makes the right side of my face rise an inch.
Okay, I guess I have to go to bed now. Have a great night everyone. Val, please do me a favor at some time in the future. Please title one of your articles, “The Bitch in the Bedroom”, or a book, or movie… Good night folks.
“Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves.
What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of
law enforcement it insists on.”
– Robert Kennedy
Val – great discussion….cant wait for the next chapter.
karenlee & eastcoast deb:
..george was equally “impressed” ay caylee’s ability to fend for herself:
state depo george: page 281:
Q And how was her physical development and her
mental development?
A Well, she couldn’t carry on conversations
like you and I are having. I mean, she didn’t have
that mental capacity yet. But she still was a very
bright girl. I saw her at the age of maybe 14 or 15
months knew how to turn on the TV, knew how to put the
DVDs in, learned how to turn on a computer, do things
that I was just amazed at just being the grandfather,
being that.
Q Right.
A As far as age two, up until the last time I
saw her, I don’t think there was anyone — any child
smarter than her.
Q In terms of manual dexterity, could she tie
her shoes yet or tie knots yet?
A No. Not really. She was starting to get to
that. We were — she was — I don’t want to say the
word clumsy. That’s a bad thing to say. But, yeah,
she was getting to that point. Yeah. She could do a
lot of — I mean, she could open up doors. Even though
we had the child-proof things on it, she knew how to -if
she really pushed on it, should could have pushed it
open. I mean, there’s a lot of different things
that –
page 283:
Q She could — could she dress herself, like
button and unbutton clothes?
A It was a little bit hard for her yet, I
think. But –
Q O k a y .
A — she did a pretty good job. I mean, she
couldn’t pull up a zipper or anything like that type
stuff.
………………george: . she can’t pull up a zipper and “i hate to say the word “clumsy” ( in that she can’t tie her shoes or tie knots ( BECAUSE SHE HAS NEVER BEEN SHOWN HOW ).
..( i don’t have a 14 month old —–but— turning on the tv?—- putting in dvds’?— turning on the computer? —- at that age? ……….and yet , not yet potty trained a month shy of her third birthday?? does not add up to me.)
so——-no one took the time to teach her how to work a zipper, tie her shoes, focus on potty training——-but damnit! at 14 months she could stick in a movie and amuse herself. (wonderful).
Agree with Stef and Eastcoastdeb that Cindy had no idea who Zani/Zanny was when she called 911, much less know that she was falling right into Casey’s plan of framing “the nanny” when she made the 911 call.
No way do I believe she planned or schemed what to tell the 911 operator. When she called, you could hear in her voice that she didn’t know if she was coming or going! She was clearly a panicked wreck. Don’t think Cindy saying the car smelled like a dead body had been in it would have been part of her scheme.
Also, agree with Ponderingwhy that it won’t be a big deal that there are many, many discrepancies in G & C stories, and that it would be unusual if they did match with no difference.
Can’t see the prosecutors even making a point of, or mentioning any of the lies. Even the obvious ones, along with all their half truths and misspoken words, lol, of either George, Cindy or Lee.
Casey’s actions caused them to do and say whatever they did or said. Don’t believe they’ll be charged with a thing, no, not even Cindy for giving the dog brush, lol.
Only see that the focus will be on cold hearted Casey and how she murdered Caylee and how she systemically knocked friends and family down like dominoes, until she did.
Can’t see the jury looking at G & C in any way but sympathetic, even if all was told about G & C and in detail. Even if every lie and discrepancies was charted out with precision, as so many can do.
Could only help and serve a purpose if the State thought they helped Casey kill or place Caylee in the woods, or move her, which I’ll never believe they did.
Why care what G & C said or did if they were not involved, they just want to convict Casey.
Not bad mouth parents that had been screwed over by Casey.
Anyway, that’s what I think the defense will do-cut them to shreds.
Hi,
I have enjoyed refreshing my memory on a lot of these small but important details. I agree Cindy didn’t know of “Zanny” till the 15th. I made a comment on youtube which someone mentioned here as well. Saying, “Someone by the name of..” isn’t how a person refers to someone they already know or know of. I think the prosecution will spotlight that during the trial. They aren’t only using that recording for Cindy’s description of the smell in the car. Just my opinion. There has been a lot of testimony over the length of time they supposedly knew of “Zanny”. Like Noela said above, I agree they won’t get in trouble because of their lying. But it will ruin their credibility. The prosecution will prove they have been lying and their testimony only proves a cover-up. Cindy has gone as far as testifying she had phone numbers and addresses of this nanny! Then when someone asked her if she called Zanny or went to the address, her answer is; “I didn’t think of it”. Totally ridiculous. Or these times George and Cindy claim Casey said she was going to “Crash at Zanny’s because I have to work late and don’t wanna wake Caylee up and disturb her sleep”. A normal parent would say; “Well, don’t worry about it. Your mother or I will pick up Caylee when we get done work. Then you can just relax and come home after work” … But this was never mentioned and I believe the prosecution will bring these kind of things up.
Take care
Tob, at the end of one of your comments you say, “I wish someone in that family would take some remorse to heart and let that poor little girl finally rest in peace.”
Whether remorse or anything else is ever felt by anybody in the Anthony family, it has no bearing on whether Caylee is at peace.
I choose to believe that Caylee is at peace, feeling the warmth of loving Arms, with no memories of the pain and Hell she endured at the hands of Casey.
To whomever was theorizing that George and Cindy may have known that Casey’s car was in Johnson’s tow yard before they picked up the letter from the Post Office on July 15th –
I have a hard time believing that they would purposefully leave it there letting the daily charges accumilate. They had to have known or at least figured that it was expensive. Cindy threw a fit to the desk clerk (Nicole Lett) about how much it was going to cost them to get it, and in Simon Burch’s interview he states that Cindy was trying to negotiate a deal with Nicole, trying to lower the fee. Nicole stated to her that the fee is not negotiable and eventually Cindy relented, however she was super hotheaded about it to the point where George kept apologizing for her behavior. She’s so classy.
———————
Bob, I could believe that they had heard of “Zanny” before but never as “Zenaida/Zenaida Gonzalez or Zenaida Gonzalez-Fernandez”, etc. Nothing more, just “Zanny” and they accepted knowing that little amount of info for whatever screwed up reasons they believe anything Casey says for. I think that would be hard to hammer down a specific date that they first started hearing it, but they probably felt they should hammer down a date and all of them try to be consistent about it. The MAIN reason I believe they may have heard of Zanny well beforehand is that Shirley Plesea, in her Aug’08 LE interview, even said that she had heard the name “Zanny” before and she is definitely someone that I believe is being truthful. She had no problem with dishing on Casey, Cindy or George in her interviews. She seemed to be most concerned with being truthful, no matter the consequences for those people, even if it were her own daughter, granddaughter, etc. Her utmost concern seemed to be for Caylee and she will speak the truth, do whatever it takes to find Caylee. Caylee was only considered missing when Shirley was interviewed, but she even expressed that she wouldn’t be suprised if Caylee was no longer living at that point.
It’s funny, I typed out one of Shirley’s interviews for Val’s Hinky Searchable Database and it’s so different when you’re typing out every single word of an interview instead of just reading it. I feel a weird connection to her, Jeff Hopkins and Charles Crettenden now. I almost feel like I need to go take a shower. I feel sorry for the people who typed out Casey’s, Cindy’s and George’s.
————-
Hey Jan, I love polite lids! What color would Cindy-flavored Jello be? Brown? I’d imagine it’d look like Head Cheese. If you could imagine Head Cheese in Jello format.
» Noela said: { Jun 7, 2010 – 05:06:02 }
I can’t agree with this, sorry. I do not believe that Cindy is capable of behaving appropriately on the stand when being asked questions or pushed to give answers on a topic she doesn’t want to talk about. I think she will turn in her sympathy card with the jury shortly after the state starts to question her.
Woobabie,
You know what your right! I forgot about Richard Grund. He said, (If I remember right?) that they were also helping Casey watch Caylee. But she needed to find someone else because it was hard for him to watch her since he worked from home. I don’t think Jesse and Casey were a couple anymore at that point? Anyway Casey told him, verbatim, the same story about “Zanny” that she has since repeated many times. So your right, and it was probably at that time, when Richard asked her to find someone that the Zanny story began.
Take care
Val – I agree. I started out with the utmost sympathy for Cindy, but she’s cashed in that card, and is overdrawn on her account.
Hi,
If George and Cindy, come off at trial as arrogant, smug, and disrespectful of the process as they did during the civil deposition, and I believe they will, A jury will not view them in a very sympathetic light at all. Especially Cindy, but also George. They both give long useless answers to questions that weren’t even asked. They NEVER just say yes or no. They both try to twist and control every question. I believe they will do the same during the trial, especially when they are called on their inconsistencies. Just my opinion.
Woobabie,
But, continuing from above. I think like you said, the name “Zanny” may have been thrown at them a couple of times but I don’t believe ever discussed. It wasn’t a name Cindy was at all familiar with because of her statement during the 911 call where she says; “Someone by the name of Zanny took Caylee”. Or I should say it was the first time George heard of that name. That’s how Cindy put it to George when he walked in. Since it isn’t a name George ever heard, and Cindy only heard mentioned in passing maybe. It was said in that context to George. The bottom line is, it wasn’t a name they have been discussing for a couple of years. If Cindy had a phone number for real, she would have been calling it and going to her address if she had one. That is where they sound ridiculous. When Cindy is asked if she called or went to Zanny’s, and Cindy says, “I didn’t think of it”. Sorry Cindy, not even close to being a reasonable answer! lol
Anyway, enough of my rambling!
Thanks Ellejay for your response
» Noela said: { Jun 7, 2010 – 04:06:26 }
Can’t see the prosecutors even making a point of, or mentioning any of the lies.
***********
Noela, I’m very curious to see whether they do or not, too. It’s interesting to see what the Anthonys have said as they’ve tried to cover their daughter’s arse, but I wonder how much, if any of it, will make it to court. I honestly don’t know what will count and what won’t count, and how (if?) it will benefit the prosecution by showing them up as liars. I’m hoping that will be part of the Encyc-lie-pedia; pointing out HOW the prosecution might use these things and to what end.
I went through an extended legal battle once and at the very start I was made aware of the ‘lawyering statement’ that says, “you may get justice but you won’t get your pound of flesh.” It’s interesting to pick apart every statement the Anthony’s (and others ) made, but I wonder how much of that is just ‘getting our pound of flesh’ and how much of it will contribute toward justice.
I honestly don’t know. It will be interesting to see…
Val, I’m cracking up over your new ‘disclaimer’.
Well done!
Please don’t take my comments up thread as indicating someone should not state what they believe even if they have no way to back it up. I only meant to give my opinion on the opinion, not to state the opinion should not be given.
GM Val,
I agree, (if this goes to trial) the Ants are going to be total arses on the stand! There is’nt a coach on the planet who could possibly help/polish them. Cindy will have to face Princess Poopy Pants Casey and try to tell the truth? HA! That should be rich!
I still have my doubts though on whether we’re gonna see a trial. With 11 months remaining a lot can happen to hopefully get a plea. I, myself, want to see the “Show” (Trial) and watch Ashton and Linda force the Ants hand, and expose this family of self-centered lying POS’s for what they truly are. Pure GARBAGE.
No wonder Caylee looked dazed and confused. I also agree with you about Caylee having to live a double life. What disturbs me hugely, is all of the unaccounted time of her little life…I mean wth did Caylee do all day while MOTFY was texting nonstop and playing on the computer? I would’nt be able to do any of that if I had an active 2 1/2 yr old to care for. Poor baby was prolly ignored a lot….pizzes me off.
GM Everybody!
» angela_nw said: { Jun 7, 2010 – 12:06:46 }
Maura —-While we are on this subject – – awhile ago I was quoting something from Charles Crittenden’s interview (co-worker of Cindy) and you stated that much of his recollection was faulty. In his interview (in searchable discovery) he states that he and co-workers heard about Zany from Cindy beginning in the fall of 2007 I believe. Do you think that part of his story is false, and if so, can you tell us why it is false? TIA
***
I don’t have confidence in Charles Crittenden’s memory, but I do have confidence in Debbie Bennett’s. And Debbie Bennett is only one person who heard about Zani/Zanny long before June 16, so while I do believe this babysitter is a fabrication, I do not believe Zani/Zanny was fabricated after Caylee’s disappearance or by anyone other than Casey.
Here is a rough timeline of when various witnesses claim to have first heard of a babysitter named Zani/Zanny/Zenaida/Zenaida Fernandez-Gonzalez:
April 2006
Richard Grund was interviewed by Yuri Melich on September 5, 2008. Richard explained to Melich that babysitting Caylee had become a burden to the Grunds in the spring of 2006, so he asked Casey to make alternate arrangements for babysitting:
“So I began to press Caylee [sic] about, “Have you found anybody yet?” . . . She finally said, “Oh, yeah (affirmative), I found this lady, uh, Zenaida Gonzalez, and she, she watches my friend Jeffrey Hopkins’ son, Zachary. And Zachary and Caylee play together and they, they love to be together. So this’ll work out great.”
However, when Richard Grund appeared on Nancy Grace about two weeks later on September 22, 2008, he only used the nickname Zani:
“Finally, one day when Casey came home from work to wait for Jesse and hang out with us, I kind of greeted her at the door with, What are we going to do about this baby-sitter thing? And she says, I found one. I have a nanny. Her name is Zani, and I got her from Jeffrey Hopkins, who has a son named…”
Summer 2007
Cindy’s Gentiva co-worker Debbie Bennett was interviewed by OCSO in November 2008. Debbie testified that Cindy had spoken in some detail about Jeff and Zach during the summer of 2007. Casey claimed to be dating Jeff, so Cindy had invited Jeff and Zach to the house a few times that summer (backyard barbecue, dessert, etc.), but Jeff always canceled so Cindy never met him. Debbie said both Zach and Caylee had a common babysitter named Zani.
August 2007 (or earlier)
OCSO interviewed Shirley Plesea, Casey’s grandmother, in August 2008. Shirley told OCSO that she had heard the name Zani for at least a year, which would go back to at least the summer of 2007.
December 2007
Jesse Grund told OCSO during a July 2008 interview, “I never met Zani before, but I’ve heard the name Zani for at least six months.” In another interview, Jesse said he first heard the name Zani in fall of 2007 when he and Casey had briefly resumed their romantic relationship. He said he heard the name Zani at his police academy graduation on December 7, 2007, which was also the last day he and Casey were romantically involved. In an appearance on Geraldo on September 20, 2008, Jesse clarified that he had only hear the name Zani, never Zenaida Gonzalez.
Geraldo said “You mean Zenaida Gonzalez?”
Jesse replied, “No, all I knew was Zani.”
February-March 2008
Ricardo testified in July 2008 that early in his relationship with Casey (which began in early February 2008), Casey told him Caylee’s nanny’s name was Zani and that he asked Casey what the name Zani stood for.
Detective Edwards: “What did she call the nanny? What, what name?”
Ricardo: “Zani. Uhm, and she did confirm at the time that her actual name was Zenaida.”
Ricardo: “Because I had asked her, ‘What does Zani stand for?’ And she told me, ‘Zenaida.’”
May 6, 2008
During an IM conversation with Tony Rusciano, Casey said she was waiting for the nanny to return from Tampa and referred to the nanny by name when she wrote, “I’m playing phone tag with both Zani & my mom.”
» Valhall said: { Jun 7, 2010 – 05:06:02 }
I do not believe that Cindy is capable of behaving appropriately on the stand when being asked questions or pushed to give answers on a topic she doesn’t want to talk about. I think she will turn in her sympathy card with the jury shortly after the state starts to question her.
***
She might be able to stay composed if Conway can make her understand that any hostility she shows toward the prosecutors will hurt Casey. She held herself together during the SAO deposition when she was asked questions that clearly made her uncomfortable, but she didn’t lash out at anyone.
When George was on the stand at a hearing last year, Linda Drane-Burdick asked him for the name of his Ohio LEO friend, and George said he didn’t see the relevance of her question. Judge Strickland immediately told George that the relevance is that she wanted the man’s name.
George and Cindy have been watching Judge Perry, and they surely know that if even amiable Judge Strickland was not going to tolerate their snippy challenges to state questions that Judge Perry will likewise not tolerate any attitude from them and might even give them a harsh dressing down in front of the jurors.
My daughter will be 3 years old next month and NO WAY would I ever make her or ALLOW her to get her own breakfast. That sounds like lazy parenting to me. She does try to turn on the TV and put a dvd in the dvd player but I am always there to help her when she doesn’t get it quite right.
My sister-in-law to this day makes my niece and nephew (in their teens) go get things for her while she sits her butt on the couch. That irks me to no end.
I believe it was the first article written in the Orlando Sentinel that stated,
“The last time her grandma and grandpa saw her, she was moving out of their Lee Vista-area home with her mom.”
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/crime/orl-missing1708jul17,0,3295407.story
This was the first “explanation” given as to why Casey and Caylee were gone for that month. So it must have been Cindy who concocted this reason, since she was quoted in the article.
It soon after turned into a “bonding vacation”.
This LIE was one of the first that I can recall being fed to the media. The story that Casey and Caylee had moved out never surfaced again, to the best of my knowledge.
It was the first idea Cindy had when she was still working around the June 9th date.
» Nauseated said: { Jun 6, 2010 – 08:06:02 }
Up thread Maura stated “Casey and Cindy talked for 25 minutes on July 8 and for 19 minutes on July 10.”
Those are long conversations. What do you suppose they had to talk about?
N – I am thinking these must be calls in which she is explaining all the convoluted goings on with imagi-Zani and crew. It must have taken a while to tell these stories, for example:
Car accident/hospital/who’s watching the ‘girls’/who are all these people anyway?;
how are they releated? why are they all together on this expedition to Tampa? How
does work fit in? why not just bring Caylee home and Cindy will watch her?
Why is Casey back in Ant home when she is supposed to be in Tampa at hospital w/Zani? Oh of course, get insurance card for her. Uh hum. And stealing gas, but somehow is driving all over central FL on fumes.
Trying out family life with Jeff/Zach; Jeff’s Mom has cancer, oh and she’s getting married this weekend; Jeff’s fixing my car;
Now were going to Hard Rock, Jeff’s there, along with the rest of the Zani crew too.
I would think all those explanations would take a while. Look how long it took Cindy to recant these conversations to the FBI?
oops — recant -> recite
I guess I mean to write
Re: C&G on the stand during PPP’s trial …
Conway has thus far been unable to coach either of them, unless he’s the one responsible for the fact we haven’t had to listen to much media screeching from them lately. (And if that’s so, I need to send Brad a thank you card.) Anyhoo, I really don’t think a living soul can tell Cynthia Anthony anything she doesn’t already know.
But even if Conway can convince them to try to behave on the stand, let’s not forget the prosecution has their number now and I have complete confidence Linda and/or Ashton will be able to elicit exactly the type of responses — and the manner they want them delivered in — from the Anthonys. The Ants aren’t bright. They’re incapable of out-thinking the prosecutors. If it’s the goal of the state to have Casey’s immediate family show their behinds to the jury … it will be done. lol … and imo
As far as Cindy not behaving on the stand and cashing in her sympathy card early with the jury, I don’t think a sympathy card will be needed, whether the jury feels it or not won’t even matter. There wouldn’t be any reason to attempt catching them in lies or start throwing dates, etc. at them to prove they’re lying. I don’t believe they’ll be hard on Cindy or George in any way to make them lose their cool. What purpose would it serve? They’ve known they were lying all along, why would they use Casey’s trial to bring up what her parents lied about? What’s the connection? They didn’t help Casey, so what would their lies have to do with the price of rice in China? lol Just can’t see them grilling Cindy and George about lies, cover ups or whatever, none of it made Casey kill Caylee and that’s what the trial is for isn’t it? To prove Casey did it and convict her? How, how, how would George & Cindy’s actions after the murder play any part in getting a conviction? Truly do not see how. I’m not understanding how it matters what they did or said when it comes down to proving Casey killed Caylee. Can see how the defense might make them explode if they plan to paint them as abusers, etc. Let them explode all they want, whether the jury has sympathy for them or despises them will not matter and won’t change their minds about Casey being guilty of killing Caylee.
Noela,
I cannot take your comment any other way (and it make sense) than to assume it was based on an assumption that Cindy and George will be honest during the trial. What in the heck makes you think that?
The reason their lies will be brought up??? It’s called impeachment of the witness, Noela. When they don’t answer forthright and they don’t answer honestly on the stand, the inconsistencies of prior statements and ANY ACTIONS they may have taken and tried to cover up WILL BE RELEVANT TO THE POINT AT HAND!
» Noela said: { Jun 7, 2010 – 01:06:28 }
***************
I echo many of your sentiments, in that I’m not entirely clear on how most of their outright lies are going to be used, if they’re used at all (there are plenty of comments they’ve made that I don’t believe will ever see the light of day).
I ask in all sincerity; what will matter and what is just us outraged followers crying for our pound of flesh?
Val? Maura? To what extent do you think the Anthonys will be ‘discredited through their lies’, if at all? I honestly don’t know what will matter and what won’t. It seems logical there is a great deal of information that only they can speak to, so certainly some of what they’ve said and some of the subsequent changes in their stories will have to be addressed. But will there be any benefit to the SA to ‘discredit’ them? I really am curious as I simply don’t know.
I realize the Encyc-lie-pedia just points out what has been said and what has changed, and isn’t intended to be information that will be used in court, but I do keep wondering what will ultimately matter and what won’t.
Agree Valhall. Once they are established to be liars, then the question becomes, WHY lie?
The REASON for G/C coverup actions is important. It is because they think Casey is guilty.
You wouldn’t lie and tamper with evidence if you thought your daughter was innocent and your granddaughter truly kidnapped.
To me, their actions help convince me of her guilt, and I can imagine many jurors coming to the same conclusion.
Sorry, Val. Posted at the same time.
So you DO think they’ll try to discredit the Anthonys so that their testimony is in question? What happens to the 911 call, and the other things they HAVE been honest about?
I really do ask in all sincerity. If they are discredited, how does that impact some pretty important things they have said that DOES support the SA’s case?
I’m struggling to express what I’m thinking as regards discrediting the Anthonys. Obviously, if they lie on the stand they’ll be called on their lies. My question is more along the lines of will the SA SEEK to discredit them as having any value whatsoever, or do they have to walk a rather fine line, as the Anthonys HAVE said things that are important.
So…how do they have it both ways if they’re saying, “The Anthonys are liars when it comes to a, b, and c, but you should believe what they said about x, y, and z?”
Noela~
Yeah, but…BIG BUT it’s all an intrigul (sp-crap) part of the web spun by Casey and her back-up spiders (WHO MIGHT THAT BE?). Law Enforcement busted their arses (biggest child investigation in HISTORY) in the State of Florida! The Anthony’s LIES and DECEPTION and TV BS made it far more difficult for not only the police, but TES, FDLE, FBI to name a few. I know, I live in Florida. The Anthonys effed up so much for every person involved in finding Caylee.
The Prosecution will use this to make clear just how rottenly guilty Casey is, and a LIER BIG TIME. Why? To show the Jury that even her (naturally protective) parents knew she was guilty (Ashton points out the inconsistancies) along with using all these lies to debunk anything Casey or her parents say at the mitigation/penalty phase…PROVE THEM TO BE THE LIERS THAT THEY ARE!
Therefor, the Jury will not believe this MOTFY BS, and whatever sparklies her dumbass parents say about how frickin’ proud they are of the georgeous sweetheart POS lying theiving, skanky unemployed perfect All American daughter who was known by her friends as “mom”! HA! Gag me w/a dead squirrel. They prolly called her “mom” cuz she was the ONLY FRICKEN MOM in their circle. DUH?!
Well, this is why these lies will come into court…simply to discredit the superficial Anthony candy coating, and get justice for Caylee. The Defense et al are gonna try to portray this Socio-Skank and her endearing FAKE parents as the All American Family.
Tell it, Ladybug!!!
We won’t know how the state will use the Anthonys until the trial, I don’t think.
But make no mistake — they are as integral to this case as the accused murderer herself. Casey and Caylee lived under their roof. Despite their outright, abominable lies to the contrary, they are thoroughly wrapped up in the reasons she bolted in mid-June 2008 from her sweet set-up, with her toddler in tow.
They funded Casey’s lifestyle (willingly and because Casey stole from them). The Pontiac is their car. The computers she used are theirs. Everything found with Caylee’s remains came from their home, including quite likely whatever was used to kill the child. They have been lying outrageously, tampering with evidence and attempting to mislead the investigation with “live Caylee” sightings and tips since she was reported missing.
Both LE and the prosecutors spent an unholy amount of hours interviewing and deposing these supposed “unimportant” witnesses in this case. Horse plop, I say. However they come into play at trial, they WILL be played.
» Jan said: { Jun 7, 2010 – 03:06:22 }
We won’t know how the state will use the Anthonys until the trial, I don’t think.
But make no mistake — they are as integral to this case as the accused murderer herself.
**********
Jan, I agree, they are quite important to this case, and some of their testimony is going to be important in getting a conviction (even if that’s not what they intend). That’s why I wonder how they can be proven as ‘liars’ on the one hand, but ‘credible’ in the testimony they will have to give that does aid the SAs case against Casey.
It seems a very fine line. I’m sure the SA is up to the task, but I do scratch my head over what they’ll address and what they’ll leave on the cutting room floor.
Aren’t the Anthonys on the PROSECUTIONS witness list? They’ll have to be declared hostile witnesses, for sure, but that just gives the prosecution a little more latitude with their questioning. I don’t think they’ll ask anything to impeach the Anthony’s entire testimony, but if the issue arises, will use their own statements, testimonies, and facts to impeach certain parts of it when they start trying to lie and evade.
» Noela said: { Jun 6, 2010 – 07:06:54 }
Never doubted that you hoped your dagger was extra sharp
All I can say is wow.
Why care what was said by Cindy and George? In short, they tampered and obstructed a case to free their daughter. I cannot for the life of me see them being sympathized with by the jury. Too many of their actions have been arrogant and outrageous prevarications. As guilty as I KNOW Casey is, from what I”ve seen, it seems to be that she has been royally screwed over by her entire dysfunctional family and it was only a matter of time until Cindy and Casey did the very same thing to Caylee. George and Cindy’s outright fabrications have cost thousands and thousands of dollars for the Florida taxpayers while they insisted that LE go find Caylee and in other directions.
The Anthony tales are not discrepancies. They are clearly thought -out lies that have been discussed for detail and precision. If there stories differed, I could feel that there was a variation on each witness’s perception of events. However, since they are so similar, I think there was a calculated plan to steer away from the truth.
The jurors are only going to hear what Judge Perry allows them to hear.
Last month, he said he was going to reserve ruling on the issue of the 911 calls, and if the admissibility of those calls wasn’t an easy, cut-and-dry, black-letter law decision, then it’s crazy to believe the jurors are going to hear all the information that has surfaced in the discovery that forms the basis of so much anger toward the Anthonys.
Perry has said several times in different hearings that ours is a memory-dependent legal system and that memory fades over time. He is not going to be surprised by witnesses whose testimony in 2011 is different from what it was in 2008, and I doubt he is going to get ruffled by modified testimony unless a change directly concerns a material fact in the case.
» Valhall said: { Jun 7, 2010 – 02:06:46 }
Noela,
I cannot take your comment any other way (and it make sense) than to assume it was based on an assumption that Cindy and George will be honest during the trial. What in the heck makes you think that?
The reason their lies will be brought up??? It’s called impeachment of the witness, Noela. When they don’t answer forthright and they don’t answer honestly on the stand, the inconsistencies of prior statements and ANY ACTIONS they may have taken and tried to cover up WILL BE RELEVANT TO THE POINT AT HAND!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Also, there could be points the state is trying to prove that will seem more possible if they can show that others around Casey are lying to protect her…example will be if the state can prove Cindy invented and spread the Blanchard Park Farce…then, why did she do it? Well, because Casey’s story of leaving Casey at the apartment was blown out of the water when the apartment was found to be vacant.
Which translates to the jury:
Cindy knew Casey was lying = One of the people who knows Casey the best knows she’ lying.
(Yes, I think her parent’s lies are very important.)
hinky meter reader (unkronked) said: { Jun 7, 2010 – 02:06:21 }
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I posted and then went back up and found this post…so, obviously we’re thinking alike on the reason the A’s lies are important. I know there isn’t time during the trial to cover all the lies they told and I don’t expect to see that sort of thing. THEY are not on trial. But, I do believe dishonesty will be established by using the lies they told that MOST benefit the prosecution in their goal of exposing Casey as being a chronic liar (who has parents who will lie right along with her to protect her.)
Just one more thing and I’ll back stop…I think George and Cindy’s lies will be exposed IF and WHEN the prosecution thinks they’re lying on the stand during trial. The prosecution will leave them alone as long as they tell the truth on the stand. If they don’t, then the prosecution will begin showing their contradictions to them and asking them why they have 2 or 3 or 4 answers to 1 question. In fact, I have seen this method used often during trials to establish the fact that a person is lying on the stand so why would George and Cindy be exempt from this kind of questioning?
Mimi — I agree. The dishonesty of this group will be established, as it is INTEGRAL TO THE CASE. In my view, it’s integral to both the victim’s demise and to the fact her COD could not be established because she laid out in the elements too long, because at least one person related to her wanted it that way.
The jurors will indeed hear what Judge Perry wants them to hear, however, Judge Perry will also allow the state to present its case. Linda DB is the lead for the state, and she isn’t given to dramatics that I’ve seen. She’ll be allowed to present her case, and I’m confident whatever role the Anthonys play will be part of the state’s strategy.
I believe GA cleaned the car of finger prints because he knew that was key evidence. As a detective most times the first words out of their mouths is are there any finger prints in an investigation. No one other than GA would have that mindset. Cindy washed KC’s pants out of being a clean buff. I don’t think she washed them for any other reason than that. But GA had the inclination to wipe the car off for specific reasons. If anything he would know this may lead LE in another direction of thinking or even looking. He knew KC was alive and he knew Caylee wasn’t. IMO unless someone has experience in how an investigation is conducted and how vital finger prints are to most cases GA felt the need to stall the investiation and the discovery of Caylee being deceased for his and his wife’s peace of mind.
I am glad he is no longer in LE, if someone in his family committed a crime he would go through all the xtremes to hide evidence. He should be charged for tampering with evidence. When the jury learns of his past employment all of their lies will be accepted as evidence because they were at an advantage when they got the car first. As a prior detective he knew he should have contacted LE based on the odor immediately. He also knew as an ex LE employee that he should have called as soon as he smelled that familiar smell. Here we have Yuri testifying to what he believed the smell was, and here we have him testifying in the same capacity that is expected of GA. Good luck GA you are gonna need it at trial. Thank you Cindy for getting one dirty cop of the force if what you said is true in wanting him safe and home.
The only thing I worry about with the Anthonys’ lies being exposed in trial is that the jurors will start to develop some sympathy for Casey and/or get distracted from the real issues while they try to figure out the who, what, when, where, and how of George and Cindy’s version of events.
» janielane said: { Jun 7, 2010 – 03:06:12 }
» Noela said: { Jun 6, 2010 – 07:06:54 }
Never doubted that you hoped your dagger was extra sharp
All I can say is wow.
*******************************
Well, I’ll join you and say wow too. Make it a puzzled wow for me. Is yours is a shaking my head wow? I don’t umdertstand. You say it as if you’re speechless or shaking your head. How does saying I never doubted that ecossie hoped her words hurt Cindy (dagger sharp) when she explained so well that was her intent? Never doubted that for a minute, that was never questioned. I knew she wasn’t sending a real birthday wish, I knew she meant it as a cut. I’m not able to speak as well as others, but I’m not slow, I never doubted her feelings toward Cindy. It was a wow can’t believe you went there (Cindy’s birthday wish) comment I was making. Not that I doubted her intent to hurt Cindy, I understood her on that, never doubted it and I told her. So that gets a wow?
Not understanding. I’m not able to say what I want
and it be taken how I meant it, think I’ll follow you and just start saying “wow”, leaving it a mystery as to what I wowed about.
Hey, I know what! PonderingWhy? You always say what I want to say and ask the same questions that pop in my mind, but I can’t seem to express it as well as you can. So I’ll just back out of this wonderful debate and ask you to kindly multiply your comments times 2, would you do that for me? I’ll never doubt your ability to speak for me, just as I never doubted ecossie’s dagger was razor sharp. WOW. You can simply say wow. One of those wows as in, WOW, I’d be glad to multiply my comments times 2 and speak for you kind of wows.
Deal or no deal? Wow or no wow, PonderingWhy? Will ya, huh?
Will ya wow me PonderingWhy?
Val, No, I’m not saying that I think George and Cindy won’t lie. I’m saying whether they do or not, it won’t matter at the end of the day. That instead of trying to catch the grandparents in a lie or present evidence of their lies, they will be focused on Casey’s guilt. Never said they won’t be mentioned at all, my God with Casey living there, etc. of course they’ll play a HUGE part. Just saying that their lying had nothing to do with Casey killing Caylee. Why would they have to show her parents are liars, to prove that Casey is a liar? Casey alone told enough on her own, without dragging the lying grandparents into it. Why would they want to crucify G & C on the stand? To gain what advantage? They are liars, so she is a liar? Why? When Casey can carry that title without any help from her parents lies or anyone else.
I know, I know, I’m repeating myself, I’m up against that wall again.
PonderingWhy, don’t help me over it. I’ll just stay here at the bottom for now and let what you say go for me too!
Yes, it’s a shaking my head saying WTF! I”m saying WOW that I can’t believe that you seem to be taking up for Cindy. I was being nice by only saying WOW. I’m flabbergasted that so many people are willing to give Cindy and George the benefit of the doubt when it has been proven time and time again that they have no regard for the memory of Caylee or for seeing her KILLER brought to justice. Krect me if I’m wrong, but I have never, EVER, seen one shred of evidence that any of the Scamthony Family cared about Caylee. We can sit here for the next hundred years and debate whether any of the Anthony’s INTENDED to lie about what the hell happened to Caylee. People can talk in circles about what it means to INTEND to lie. My definition of an INTENT to lie is when a mouth is opened and the truth AS THEY KNOW IT does not come out of that opened mouth. End of Story
Janie,
It’s okay for Noela to make her point. The original jab was a personal jab and Noela took issue with it.
It’s cool.
Thank you Val. I apologize if I was out of line.
You weren’t. But I was just pointing out neither was Noela. She made her point in a not so hostile way…just a minorly sharp dagger stab.
No one is trying to ‘catch’ the grandparents in a lie. They’ve caught themselves with their publicity- seeking natures. Cindy and George’s lies are very relevent to the murder of Caylee. Why did they lie? They KNEW about the guilt of their daughter and the death of their granddaughter.
The only thing that bothers me is if George wiped down the car with the intent of getting rid of fingerprints, than in his mind, Caylee was dead and Casey was her killer. If prints belonging to someone else were on the trunk lid, they could have been linked to the source of the smell, the body that was in the trunk. Surely,George would want to preserve such evidence. Casey’s prints would be expected to be found on the trunk lid and wouldn’t prove anything.
I have to say for the first time in my life I have begun to understand the In-Justice System that we have in America. This Biotch could possibly walk FREE because of ONE juror! How can that be? If there is one juror that can’t wrap their head around the FACT that a mother could do such a horrible thing to their child then what would the outcome be? Guilty because they didn’t know for sure she (Casey) was lying? Guilty because Casey didn’t INTEND to KILL? and then INTEND to LIE about it? The thought that Casey could walk free is not that far fetched given a few people’s view in this blog. It’s a scary thought that this could happen.
Okay, time for me to go Nite Nite, hope you all have a great evening.
Justice for Caylee!
I re-read my last post? Wait a minute the car wasn’t a crime scene yet? I have managed to confuse myself lol. So now I am thinking and feeling is that GA was wiping finger prints off the car because he felt eventually LE would have to be called. So he was in preparation of protecting KC. Mr. Birch said he looked in the window of KC’s car as it sat there kind of like admiring it. He may have rested his hand on it somehow. Does anyone think the crime lab had names of who may or may not had reason for their finger prints to be on this car? Boy I have lost myself reading all the lies and knowing there are so much more to come
Is there going to be a quiz after all these lies are brought out to the light? lol
So I still stand on my feelings that GA knew immediately Caylee’s little body was in this trunk and he had to make that realization go away so he wiped it clean. If SB rates the odor to a seven out of 10 and 10 being the worst that is pretty high. Val or maybe Maura how many people have said the car smelled really bad civillian and le? I just have to wait til 5/9/11 and I don’t want to…Does anyone know when there is another hearing in this matter? Have a good nite and thank you for considering answering my questions.
At times, I’ve felt that George and Cindy were trying to protect Casey but other times, they’ve seemed to abandon her. I can’t decide whether they were looking out for Casey or simply trying to distance themselves from her and the crime. Why would George go to the trouble of cleaning the car of prints yet practically give Casey up in his interviews? I believe that George and Cindy knew their hours were numbered. If Simon Birch reported the odor, and they didn’t even bother to report their grandchild missing, it would have raised suspicion and LE would have been questioning their motivation for remaining silent throughout this ordeal. Making a preemptive strike mitigated their perceived involvement as per their knowledge of Caylee being missing for a month.
Janie….you have to have faith in the justice system. And you have to allow others to see things differently.
It really will be all right in the end.
from the OC clerk site:
http://myclerk.myorangeclerk.com/default.aspx
06/01/2010 Notice of Hearing
6/17/10 @ 2:00 pm
06/21/2010 Status Hearing (1:30 PM) (Judicial Officer Perry, Belvin, JR)
07/20/2010 Status Hearing (1:30 PM) (Judicial Officer Perry, Belvin, JR)
08/30/2010 Status Hearing (1:30 PM) (Judicial Officer Perry, Belvin, JR)
09/27/2010 Status Hearing (1:30 PM) (Judicial Officer Perry, Belvin, JR)
10/29/2010 Status Hearing (1:30 PM) (Judicial Officer Perry, Belvin, JR)
( i believe at the last hearing ——where the incareated one fell and did not attend—–baez said he couldn’t make the june 21 status hearing—-JudgeP told him to get with the SA, and his calendar, and re-work a date. )
06/07/2010 Order Denying Motion To Strike
State’s Notice of Aggravating Circumstances
06/07/2010 Order Denying Motion to Compel
Forensic Discovery
06/07/2010 Order Denying
Motion to Seal Jail Visitation Log Records
( this “jail visitation” was the motion baez and cheney were going on and on about—–having to produce ID, fax letters, blah blah——JudgeP said he would do his own research—did—–DENIED.)
Curiousmom said: { Jun 7, 2010 – 06:06:30 }
The only thing I worry about with the Anthonys’ lies being exposed in trial is that the jurors will start to develop some sympathy for Casey and/or get distracted from the real issues while they try to figure out the who, what, when, where, and how of George and Cindy’s version of events.
………………not if the state lays out that they are lying FOR kc…… (they will have already heard from the state, in opening arguments that kc IS a cold hearted bitch murderer.)
..perhaps once she’s found guilty——-and andrea gets “her turn at bat”—SHE will then show what a pack of liars the anthony’s are—–always have been—–poor kc growing up in such an atmosphere…sob..( as a mitigating factor?)
.at trial, the defense can dress her up in pink, yellow, and rainbows ———-but they’ll never be able to disguise her cold, heartless, evil eyes.
IMO the A’s and their trunks full of lies won’t confuse a jury. The SA knows what it should do in attempting to hold back destroying the A’s. The defense though will be the ones to open every effing door to the state to slice the A’s up. JB, CM, AL will ask some dumb a** question of them like KC is MOTY material and on cross the SA will eat them up. All along the SA has given them enough rope and all along Conway, Jose Baez and Chunky Monkey, I mean Cheney Mason, have allowed Ca&GA and more importantly KC hang themselves.
I don’t care who visits KC in jail, it doesn’t change her position in the least bit. Besides what can KC say to any of them that her family and defense hasn’t already shown us? Special doctors, so what, Val already diagnosed her for me, an ERaser Killer, Narrcistic, pathological & habitual liar, thief, lazy, delusional, conceited & convinced, horny, two timing, fastest texter in Florida, computer smart to some extent, non event coordinator, cold hearted squirrel killer, oh and Baby killer!
I think that the prosecutors will concentrate on hammering home that Casey deliberately killed Caylee and therefore deserves the ultimate punishment.
I agree with Noela and PonderingWhy that the prosecution won’t spend much effort attacking G & C. I can’t think of ANYTHING George or Cindy have ever said that “helps” Casey. Both G & C locked themselves early on into the most damaging evidence of all against Casey. It is in writing, on audio and on video. I’m wracking my brain and nothing comes to mind that they have ever said that really “helps” Casey.
The prosecutors want the jurors to go back to the jury room thinking of Casey’s lies not Cindy’s. They the jurors considering the duct tape over half of Caylee’s face and Caylee’s last moments with her mother not sympathizing with Casey because they don’t like her parents.
The problem I see with the “the state won’t spend time on C&G’s lies” is that you guys are acting as though the defense won’t call Cindy and George.
Might I just point out that Casey has (at best) THREE character witnesses. She has (at best) THREE people who MIGHT attempt to back up her “story”.
Are you saying that the defense WON’T put anyone on the stand but expert witnesses?
Let me answer how I think the defense SHOULD act…the answer would be YES…only expert witnesses. Let me now answer how I think THIS defense will act…NAH…lol, the Anthonys need to talk about the MOTFY.
In this case C&A will have to tell the truth????That on it’s own will be history! I can already see it Cindy melting the wicked witch of the East, no the west, no the south, no wait the north…
jolynna:
” I can’t think of ANYTHING George or Cindy have ever said that “helps” Casey”.
…………….”zanny? we’ve talked about her in regular conversation in our home over the last 2 1/2 years. kc always gave me new ph. #’s, new addresses for her……kc is an EXCELLNT mother, she loved “that child”, “kc, is a daughter that ANY father would be proud of..”"caylee was her world”.” kc may be telling “mis-truths”, but she’s not a murderer——–get off your asses and find my granddaughter! ”
..of course they’re lying the entire time…….( but i think they were (then) trying to “help” kc..)
..(now) i’m sure cindy still IS——george? no show at court lately? either he has a job——–or a conscience.
» Bob said: { Jun 7, 2010 – 06:06:21 }
Woobabie,
But, continuing from above. I think like you said, the name “Zanny” may have been thrown at them a couple of times but I don’t believe ever discussed. It wasn’t a name Cindy was at all familiar with because of her statement during the 911 call where she says; “Someone by the name of Zanny took Caylee”. Or I should say it was the first time George heard of that name. That’s how Cindy put it to George when he walked in. Since it isn’t a name George ever heard, and Cindy only heard mentioned in passing maybe. It was said in that context to George. The bottom line is, it wasn’t a name they have been discussing for a couple of years. If Cindy had a phone number for real, she would have been calling it and going to her address if she had one. That is where they sound ridiculous. When Cindy is asked if she called or went to Zanny’s, and Cindy says, “I didn’t think of it”. Sorry Cindy, not even close to being a reasonable answer! lol
———
Bob, I dunno if you’ll even be back in this thread since a new one was started, however I do agree with you. I haven’t listened to the entire audio recordings of the 911 calls. The “highlighted” portions stick out in my mind because they were played over and over on TV. If she did make that particular statement in that way, it would definitely come off as if she was completely unfamiliar with Zanny.
See ya around!
I agree upthread. Cindy didn’t know Amy from Adam but she went out on a limb and called her from the number she found on the resume. She volunteered to go pick up a total stranger at the mall. If she had Zanny’s address and phone number she could have just as easily done the same thing. In fact that is where I would have started once I found out my car smelled like death of course after I called LE. I would have called LE to tell them that my car smelled like death and that I called Zanny and went to the address my daughter provided me with on numerous occassions and didn’t find the babysitter because she moves alot and her number changes alot and now I am really concerned about my grand-daughter and my daughter.
I guess only the real concerned one’s would do something like this. I know Cindy was concerned her myspace and her frantic calling to KC show that, but anyone that is familiar with the limits that their child has gone to to have her way should have called 911 as soon as they smelled that car!
I wonder if they read the blogs and think we’re completely backwards in our thinking. I bet.
No reasonable person would call LE. They can’t be trusted. Look at what they did to Casey. They completely railroaded her. They tried to nail her instead of go look for Caylee, they wouldn’t even issue an Amber Alert when we told them she vanished 31 days ago and her car smells like a dead body that smells like pizza.
sunny:
“If she had Zanny’s address and phone number she could have just as easily done the same thing.”
———–if she HAD zanny’s ph. # and address—-she would have been there long before the date they found the car. she most definitely would have been there on july 3rd—–the day she drove out to universal——had lee go out looking for kc—–wrote her myspace entry.
……….therefore, cindy did NOT have a zanny ph. #, did NOT have a zanny address, ——did NOT have a CLUE——as to where on earth kc and caylee were.
( i actually read on a forum somewhere when this tragic story began to unfold—–that maybe cindy was too SHY to go over to zanny’s—( yeah, she’s the epitome of “shy” )—good grief.
The state will use Cindy and George’s questionable conduct to show the jury that they felt their daughter was guilty as is evidenced by the lies and ‘red herrings’ the Anthonys have thrown out there to misdirect LE away from the truth
Also, the Anthonys are the authors of the lies that have muddied upt his investigation to begin with. If they felt Casey had no accountability in the murder, they didnt’ need to resort to theatrics and liesl
They didn’t just misdirect, the misunderexindirected.
Hi, haven’t completely read the up-to-date comments so don’t know what I’ve missed, but today WFTV has all three 911 calls along with the prosecutions motion to allow admissibility of Cindy’s 911 calls into evidence.
First thought was, they (wftv) lists the 911 calls by name, which is a bit confusing as to order of the calls. The timeline of the calls is revealed in the attachment, a photocopy of the labelled ‘Exhibit A’ audio disk, which gives the times of each of the three calls as:
Orlando Police Dept 911 call— 20:05 HRS
Orange County PD 911 call — 20:44 HRS
Orange County PD 911 call — 21:41 HRS
(there’s always been confusing about media numbering the calls as first or second, or third– that problem might have been caused by the actual document label on the transcripts and the change in jurisdiction for the calls, for example in the transcript attached to the state’s motion, the ‘third 911′ call is listed on the transcript computer label (bottom of the pages) as “Anthony.Second.911.Call.051508/Case#…. etc”.)
In this second call transcript, it’s clear that the transcript is NOT verbatim from the audio and it may be an early transcript in which certain names have been redacted. George, if he had read the transcript, would not have seen his name in print, although it’s clear in the audio, including his responses to Cindy as she relates ‘Caylee is missing’ and ‘Casey has admitted Zanny took her a month ago’.
(the spelling of Zanny in the transcript version, may be the source of the mis-spelling of the ficticious nanny, vs Casey’s own IM spelling pre-Caylee going missing, of Zani)
Listen to the audio and compare the transcript– there’s much missing in those typed words, the audio may actually be more clear than some we’ve been hearing, if the media has actually used a cleaner or fewer generations off original, by using a copy of the newer audio attached to this motion by the state. (if not, maybe they should, it may reveal more background speech?)
(look at page 2, lines 12 through bottom of the page– contrasted with the audio with George– Cindy even says ‘George’ during this part of the conversation yet the transcript eliminates his name. It is clear that George and Cindy are speaking to each other, Cindy ends with annoyance, saying “I’m on the phone with them!’ )
One other unrelated point, Cindy tells the operator about the ‘stolen car’ and when the operator asks when the car was stolen, she finally gives a date of ‘June 30th’.
Cindy is clearly separating the issue of Caylee missing date of June 7th, which was the date she gave as the last time she personally, saw Caylee, and the theft report of the auto. Why would she do that? Why was the 30th given as the date of the theft? Was she just making things up on the go, or was there a reason to separate the missing child from the ‘stolen’ (missing) car?
(I said the ‘second’ 911 call when it was the third or last call I’m referring to– because it’s labelled ‘second’ because it was the second OCPD 911 call)
Let’s see the exact time George was spoken to by Cindy in that 911 call.
Start time is 21:41 HRS, that’s 9:41 and the call lasts 4:29 minutes.
http://www.wftv.com/video/16980866/index.html
Cindy says: “George, Caylee’s missing!”… [ background voice]… “Caylee’s Missing!” (this would be starting with Cindy at line 12 of the transcript and about 1 1/2 minutes into the call.
So George is in the house and within earshot of Cindy on the phone by 9:45 pm. And Cindy clearly knows this too because she’s speaking to him.
9:41 pm call starts, and a few seconds after 4 minutes into the call, Casey tells the operator that the officers have arrived at the house.
Could Cindy have been making her call from a cell phone and not the landline as she paced outside as per George’s story? But that makes no sense if George just arrived and she had to call out his name, if she were talking on the phone in front of his car as he arrived in the drive way, she wouldn’t need to call his attention to her, he knew something was wrong as he called Lee to go to his mother already. George would be paying attention to Cindy if she was out in front waiting for police and pacing with the phone in hand– he’d be worried about her at a minimum, as he expressed to Lee, apparently.
What a difference 5 minutes makes….
I have been out of pocket for a week so forgive me if someone has already stated this, but as much as I would like to see the Anthony’s pay for their lies and cover-ups, I don’t believe it will be a focus of the trial. It will be brought up as testimony warrants, but I believe the focus will be on the forensics and KC’s actions. If the prosecution focused on the lies the trial would never end.
Also, I could see the reasoning for the lies about what went down that night as being a cover up for perhaps getting “a” version of the real story out (that Caylee was deceased). I think, as so many stated, that the Anthony’s got some answers from KC and they all lied about what happened to cover for the fact that they did talk extensively to KC and did get some answers. In an interview GA stated they didn’t really discuss the situation with each other and I found that very hard to believe. If my grandchild was missing, that would be all I talked and theorized about. I think that statement was made by George in the Mason depo, but it may have been in the LE interview. Bottom line is that people lie to keep the truth hidden. A good reason for the diverse stories is that they did not have time to come up with an alternate story together initially. IMO those initial lies were told to hide the fact that they did get some answers from KC (told with her own spin, I am sure). At least, they knew that Caylee was no longer among the breathing. I am not sure when they determined where Caylee was, but I do believe it was Cindy that told DC where to look.
Knowing that Caylee was dead, it would only make sense for them to steer LE in the wrong direction to protect KC. That would be the reason for Cindy to get so mad at Tim Miller and others who looked for Caylee.
Got to run, the grandbabies just came in.
Ellejay:
That is why $indy knows she lied in her depo with M&M. She stated that she gave info from the sticky to LE of Zanny’s information. I know she lied, but the important fact is she knows she lied and is comfortable doing so. So long as days go by I will never forget the faces she made to M&M. Hehe! Those videos are funnier than the cartoons they have made of her because they are actually her. I am proud of AH, TL, and the many victims in this tragedy for having sense enough to lay low and not make themselves look like effing fools by being tripped up as G&C have. Even the so called professionals from the dufense couldn’t refrain from looking like fools.
Too me these victims deserve applause and for some reason I feel by their desire to tell their side of things indicates they want Justice for Caylee. A family member of mine was dating a gal with a little baby and the baby died due to medical reasons at 1.5 years old, she remains in his prayers and he takes his two daughter’s from his current marriage to place flowers on her and he tells them she was his first angel in life. I often wonder how TL feels when he thinks about Caylee. Maybe he wishes he could have done something to protect her. I know he could not possibly know what he was involved with and I say what because I don’t feel KC is a human being. I worry about the people that affiliated themselves with her and their mental struggles from 08 throughout the rest of their young lives. This had to make them age substantially IMO.
Maura said: { Jun 6, 2010 – 02:06:03 }
…
I don’t see the situation the same way. Cindy and George picked up the car that afternoon and learned it had been towed 17 days earlier; during those 17 days, Casey had been claiming she and Caylee were Jacksonville. Caylee’s car seat and mama doll were in the car at the tow lot. Cindy heard from Amy Huizenga just before confronting Casey that Casey had been shacking up with Tony at his apartment and that Amy had not seen Caylee for a month even though Amy had seen Casey regularly.
By the time Cindy found Casey at Tony’s, she was past the point where she would accept any more delays from Casey, and she was determined to do anything, even having Casey arrested, in order to force Casey to produce Caylee.
Of course Cindy was worried about Caylee or she wouldn’t have driven to the Pershing substation to have Casey arrested. But worried about Caylee’s welfare and believing Caylee was in danger or dead are two different things. Cindy’s calm tone of voice in the first and second 911 calls and her failure to even mention Caylee in the first call do not support the claim that Cindy believed Caylee was in danger, let alone dead.
———————-
Maura:
I agree, Cindy was worried, but let’s not forget that they already had the car that smelled like decomp and Caylee’s things were in the back seat. Cindy had already asked George the pizza question and the car had been cleaned up and KC’s pants washed. I’m not sure I can honestly say Cindy had no reason to believe Caylee was in danger or was already dead. She had to fear something because she finally took action. Something she had not done for the past 31 days.
sunny:
…..” she remains in his prayers and he takes his two daughter’s from his current marriage to place flowers on her and he tells them she was his first angel in life. I often wonder how TL feels when he thinks about Caylee. Maybe he wishes he could have done something to protect her. I know he could not possibly know what he was involved with and I say what because I don’t feel KC is a human being. I worry about the people that affiliated themselves with her and their mental struggles from 08 throughout the rest of their young lives.”
———–i’m sure that with today being the 2nd anniversary of her MURDER, there will be a lot of people thinking about her. in addition to the “multitudes” that have come to care about caylee online———i do wish there was “a gravesite/a headstone” , for those that had real personal contact with her, some place for them to go.
..kc’s Xfriends—-from their interviews, it sounds like they all had a lot of fun with her, until “zanny” whisked her away in an instant on june 16th.
..it was sad, to me, that at almost 3—-caylee had no little playmates ( she did play with kristina’s kids a few times ) ——–we certainly haven’t seen pictures of caylee and a playdate friend, playing out in the anthony backyard together–in the sandbox, her playhouse, the little pool…..THAT would have been fun!
..( of course——-how on earth would kc be able to keep her eye on TWO kids playing?—-while she’s on the computer——texting on her phone—–nope—-it’s “in front of the tv, alone, for caylee.” )
…and yes—-i agree, her Xfriends, will have mental struggles for years to come——surely they have “trust issues” with new friends..
Valhall,
Great idea with the Encycliepedia, but I hope you have good health insurance… I’m worried about carpal tunnel syndrome. Typing all those lies might be injurious to your poor fingers. Thank you for your excellent and funny (at times) reporting.
Best, Lili