Miscellaneous Topics on the Caylee Marie Anthony Case – Part 7

Finally the first to comment! Almost like being the first kid outside on a snow day!

Along with the new hearing, it also states the defense has not decided yet to argue the release of the jail letters. If they dont argue it , then my guess is that there isnt much in the letters that they care about. Still I would love to see if she said anything about her feelings toward her parents these days. Hope they are released

http://www.wftv.com/news/23005410/detail.html

The content of the jail letters has me curious, too. What could she possibly talk about in 50 letters to an inmate?? I wonder if they had a “relationship” (if you know what I mean)??

Fran, I’d love to see the letters just to maybe get a bit more insight on how her mind works. I wonder if the letters were just blah, blah, blah, the food here sucks, showers are cold, etc. For entertainment purposes, I want to read things like, “Okay, so when we get out, I’ll get you a job and we’ll get our own house. I’ll be set for life when this miss-understanding is cleared up.” Your BFF Casey.

Lol Karen, that would be an awesome read !

My guess is we’ll be seeing those letters next week.

Valhall….. yet another thread!!
WHEN are you going to write a BOOK?! – I’m persistent, what can I say… love all your articles. Wonder what ur take on Joe Jordan is…. I value your opinions.

Keep up the great work, Valhall… the number of comments speaks for itself. Brava…

Justice for Caylee Marie Anthony

http://www.wftv.com/pdf/21703813/detail.html

..as usual, baez is crying the blues, it sounds to me, that in his motion, he’s getting in his little ( school yard ) digs—–boo hoo, you like nejame better than me…sobsob.

( the court “seems to RELY on the rep. of TES,and, “likely accepts TES statements”.
( while placing a burden——then a HEAVY burden on the defense ).

.page 9……the court, seems to rely upon the representation of TES’s description of the contents of the documents in it’s possession. This court required disclosure of documents pertaining to the 32 searchers identified as having been on suburban drive.

……this court, placed a burden upon the defense to review documents at the office of counsel for TES and identify further documents for an in camera review. .

…..the reason for placing such a heavy burden on the defense was likely that the court accepted TES’s statement that it had already carefully examined the docs, and the 32 identified were the ONLY volunteers to search the suburban dr. neighbourhood.

» CarrieK said: { Mar 30, 2010 – 11:03:05 }
The content of the jail letters has me curious, too. What could she possibly talk about in 50 letters to an inmate?? I wonder if they had a “relationship” (if you know what I mean)??

……..not this time, as she is in protective custody, and not allowed interaction with other inmates.

..i’d love to see her out in “general polulation” , watching her back all of the time…( trying to hide from some inmate that DID want to have a “relationship” with her. )

I just wanted to insert how much I appreciate how you guys have hung with me while we were enduring all the server problems. I know it had to be exasperating and I just appreciate you not going away forever because of it.

I hope to get back on my stride soon and to get back to both the Anthony case and some new cases I have been researching.

Thank you so much for the awesome content you provide here. You are all so appreciated.

I know I bring Karla Holmolka’s name up once in awhile but there are so many similarities. However, I was just reading comments on another thread about whether or not GA was planning on doing some renovations on his house where his granddaughter may have been murdered?!? If that’s true then that’s where the similarities end. The house that Holmolka and her husband used to rape and murder their victims was demolished by LE as soon as the trial was over. And from 1990 to this day there has not been even one leaked photograph or video!

Another useless motion. Bozo was invited to review all files at NeJeme’s office but was to busy to go. So Mr. NeJeme sent the court ordered 30+ files. I wish the judge would blast him and tell him to stop wasting taxpayers money. Since we are now footing the bill. Also Laura Buchanan told Joe Jordan she was a cop from KY yet her signed statement says she lives in NJ. Anyone know who she is? It appears a bozo plant!

Val, I am so glad the issues with the site are fixed. You never have to worry about me leaving, though. I’d wait for weeks just to read something new that you posted.
I suspect most everybody else who visits here feels the same way.

Regarding the 50+ notes from jail…..probably the most remarkable thing (and the thing that, no surprise, the defense probably won’t even consider) about them will be the lack of real emotion in them. Just like Casey’s texts during the 31 days.

Blah, blah, blah, spicy peanuts, blah, blah, blah, bottled water, blah, blah, blah, new music on the radio.
No mention of Caylee, no sadness, no fear, no anything meaningful.
Just one more example of her sociopathic tendencies.

I’m running all over the place reading comments that I thought were on a different thread, but . . . no. I’m easily confused and I do apologize for that.

Has there been some discussion about The Hinky Store? If there is, I’m embarrassed to say I haven’t found it yet, will look again. Was anyone being critical of advertising? Cause I read a couple comments in favour of ads. I don’t mind them. If it means that the blog can stay up, then I’m really all for it. We get such a good range of people who have really put their time and minds into this and I hope you know how much we this blog (I wanted to use the icon)!!!

So, I just stay here then, this being Mis. Top. – Part 7?

I’ll be back, have gone to read some comments on the closed thread!

Bees Knees said: { Mar 31, 2010 – 12:03:08 }
..i followed the bernardo-homolka case too——of course, during the case there was a gag order——-but after, we’ve seen quite a bit.

Bees,

The Hinky Store is on the right banner….go shopping!

Bees Knees said: { Mar 31, 2010 – 12:03:08 }

True to some degree, but our laws are so different, plus the Bernardo Holmolka case happened almost 20 years ago, before most people participated in on line forums and there was no social media as we know it today. As I recall it, there were a lot of rumours discussed on web sites and BBS’s, but nothing nearly as pervasive as we see now.

Much as I’ve been an avid consumer of the discovery docs in Caylee’s case, I’m quite glad that we didn’t have Sunshine laws here during the French/Mahaffey cases. Trunk stains and duct tape are gruesome enough. On the other hand, if we had the same degree of openness prior to trial, I don’t think the deal with the devil could have happened.

Throughout this case I’ve thought often about the difference the Sunshine Laws make, both pro & con.

Yeah, we have seen quite a bit by now. Not in the same ballgame as this case though!!! Remember the public was outraged after The Deal With The Devil and THEN they found out she was an eager and more than willing participant in the murders!!! There was a website up from her first day in prison where you could place some kind of bet on the date someone would off her. It was really intense. She’s managed to relatively disappear and is supposedly living in Quebec with her new true and her son!!!!

Potatohead,
Was it you that recommended the Jeffery Deaver book?

In Canada the justice system is quite different. The Beranardo – Holmolka case was very gruesome and the victims families ensured that the disgusting videos made by Bernardo & Holmolka were destroyed once the criminal case was completed. THe travesty of that case was the deal Holmolka got. She got her deal before they found the videos (which were actually recovered by Bernardo’s attorney not the police. She got 12yrs, was released on parole once she served her sentence and then had a baby. It makes my skin crawl to know she is walking this earth a free woman now. The laws in Canada protect her as much as the victims. Actually it protects her better than the victims.

Public outrage about Homolka’s sentence had barely cooled by the time of her extremely high-profile release from prison in 2005.
She lived in the province of Quebec for a time and in 2007, was speculated to have left Canada for the Antilles, new partner and baby in hand.
As of December 2009, respected La Presse, Canada’s top French-language newspaper, claims that Karla is now back in Ontario studying Law and living with her partner Luka Magnotta.

….i knew that she had moved to a carribean island somewhere—-didn’t know she was back, and—-…….studying law ???

..i can see kc doing that in prison, pouring over thelaw books, working on her appeal..

You know, you may be right. That deal with the devil might not have happened.

Me too (the Sunshine Laws). Albeit the crime was horrific and I have been through a range of emotions, like you all, I admit it has had the air of fascination about it, too. And many different elements came together in this case. Nothing seems to be black & white simple but that’s not because the players were masterminds who pulled of the crime of the 21st century, it’s because so many dark-hearted, soulless, con-artists and flim-flam artist all came together with all of their lies. That’s the only reason there’s such turmoil and mess now associated with this stinky case. The entire case has been constructed with lies ~ mistruths, half-truths, defamation’s, falsehoods, fibs, blah, blah, blah . . . it’s all they know, I guess?

That’s right, Gracie. Also when she was incarcerated she never applied for an appeal or an early sentence, nothing, She did every single day of those 12 years so that when she was released she didn’t even have a probationary period where authorities could keep their eye on her. They couldn’t even demand an address from her. She was free and nobody knew where she was for a few years, I think.

Me too, Ellejay. That’s exactly what she’ll do.

KZ said: { Mar 31, 2010 – 12:03:37 }

Yes, it was. I’m really enjoying it. A few parts are implausible, but I am appreciative of how well Deaver researched and understands all sorts of different on line communities, including forums, blogs, gamer guilds and social media channels. Add to that the whole new investigative aspect for LE, and I think it is a good read for anyone who follows crime cases on line.

You’d recognize many, many characters as personalities you’ve stumbled across on line.

PotatoHead,

What is the title of that book if I may ask?

ellejay said: { Mar 31, 2010 – 01:03:43

Magnotta as in Magnotta wines/winery family? Interesting. Must check into that.

Back to this case, I wonder how people in Florida feel about the Sunshine Laws in relation to Casey’s case?

I do wonder if there might be a happier medium that would negate the sensationalism we’ve seen in the media? I’m not sure I am thinking so much about the release of info itself. Maybe I am more disturbed by the way some MSM play it out, without any sort of factual context?

On the other hand, if we didn’t have the ability to read and think about all the interviews, forensic reports, and watch the hearings, I also wonder if this many of us would still be following this as closely as we are?

Many of us wouldn’t buy a book about the case, unless written by a diligent soul who was committed to detailing the facts, which many are drawn to learning more of. Some of us probably have purchased books on other true crime cases because we saw no discovery releases and wanted to find some facts in the writing.

EDRN said: { Mar 31, 2010 – 01:03:44 }

Roadside Crosses – Jeffrey Deaver

I only mentioned it here because in reading it I was reminded that OCSO LE has likely had to immerse themselves far more into on line investigation than they’d hoped to. Investigative techniques are changing, even for non-technical personnel.

As I mentioned previously, I doubt that John Allen was a MySpace creeper prior to this case. Amongst other things, the book illustrates the learning curve detectives have these days when dealing with online personalities relevant to their case.

(After all of these plugs, I really think Deaver should send me a free copy of his next book, I do.)

Canuck Kids – do a quick Google on Luka Magnotta. 3rd hit is worth the read, and topical.

Last line, “It could also serve as another example of just how powerful the Internet really is.”

Same is true in regards to countering rumors with facts, as we’ve seen in Caylee’s case. Which is why we’re here at Hinky.

Hey, Bees Knees. I followed the Karla case when it was going on. Geez, that brings back some memories. Didn’t she have a couple love affairs while in jail? I just read that Paul is up for parole under the faint hope clause in 2010. I gather you followed the case too when it was happening? I only had TV back then. Imagine the blogs we could have had about that case. You are in Ontario? Did she not live there for a while before leaving the country after her release? I’m way over in Alberta and have not heard much news about her. I think she has left Canada, do you know anything for sure?

Potatohead,
I just received the book yesterday from the library. Thanks for the recommendation! I’m only 20 or so pages in. Sounds like a great author– lots of twists and turns mentioned in the book reviews. I’m always up for a new book…usually NF, but I venture into fiction every now and then. This sounded intriguing.

(Val may have to start a book club thread! Book mobile?)

While looking up Darlie Routier (DP mother in Texas, horrifying crime), I stumbled across this:

Dena Schlosser (roomate of Andrea Yates in psych hospital):
“On November 6, 2008, it was announced that Schlosser would shortly be released into outpatient care. The order requires her to see a psychiatrist once a week, take medication, be on a physician-approved birth control and not have any unsupervised contact with children.”

Dena Schlosser, born in 1969 in Plano, Texas, killed her eleven-month-old daughter Margaret Schlosser in 2004, amputating the baby’s arms with a knife and supposedly believing that she was offering her to God.

4 years and she’s “cured” enough to be in outpt care?????? WTF?

I think the defense is not crying about the letters because they wanted Casey to write them. I think the letters will help to throw someone (probably a family member) under the bus. Just my opinion.

KZ said: { Mar 31, 2010 – 02:03:15 }

I’ll give you the shirt off my back, my last dollar and every crumb in the cupboard, but don’t even think about going near my precious booksies. I’m the inspiration for the episode of Hoarders on book collectors.

Guess you can kick me out of the bookmobile right off. I do not lend books. Every human on the planet looks the same to me. You know, THOSE PEOPLE that don’t return books.

I would be interested in hearing your review though so if you have a favoured book site forum, link us up. I’d love to book chat somewhere else so we don’t mess up Hinky.

Amazing that we do still have interests beyond this case after almost 2 years, isn’t it?

Potatohead,
Your collection can’t POSSIBLY be any bigger than mine! But I do lend…carefully! And I’m using the library more so as not to go broke buying books.
So…..I don’t really know any book blogs cuz I haven’t looked! (Time, ya know!)” Recommendations?

I won’t hijack the topic either– just wanted to say thanks for the recommendation! Also reading Silver’s recommendation “Guernsey Literary and Potato Peel Pie Society”.
TY Silver.

I confess that I’m rather new to blogging. I used to think “blogger” meant you OWNED the blog, and others merely flocked to read at your feet. I follow several diary-type blogs, but no one comments on anything posted. I didn’t know blogs were interactive in a “discussion” format until 2 months ago! lol! (Hooked on Hinky! Should be a t-shirt for that!) The medical sites I frequent post about twice a month, so keeping up wasn’t difficult. I stumbled onto Hinky because I thought I was the only person in the northern hemisphere that was still following the case, and once I looked online, I was astonished how much stuff there is out there. This site is BY FAR the most intelligent discussion I’ve found. (Thanks to all!)

Potatohead & KZ – Let’s start a Hinky Book Club. KZ, I too am crazy about not lending books. That what libraries are for. Have either of you ever read a book called ‘Salt of the Earth”? It is the true story of what happens to a family after their daughter is murdered. A very compelling read & very heartbreaking. Ann rule was a favorite of mine but it’s been awhile since she wrote a really good one, I wish she would write about this case.

EDRN:To your question:

Do you think anyone, anywhere will ever delve into the minds of the Anthony clan, and give us some answers for their behavior?

While we are no behavioral specialists ourselves, I think you and everyone else here have pretty consistently hit their behaviors squarely on the head. It’s all been laid out and the only thing that remains to be seen is the time and place when one of them will sell their “exclusive story” somewhere or get and Editor and come out with the book. So sad to know that they are banking on that, too.

I agree once again with everything in your last post—so much of it is beyond understanding——-what kind of love do or did they have for Caylee that has been keeping them from telling the truth for so long? It defies everything that we as caring humans know.

Ohhhh, Yay! Hinky Meter Merchandise on Sale now! I am ordering my HM MousePad tommorrow !

This is way cool and my kids will be sure to comment on it—-Love the slogan—-”because something’s just not right”………Kind of what we parents use when going in to spy mode to look at the teenagers Facebook postings and saved text messages in their cell phones….. heh he heh

When we moved did we move to a parallel universe in a new time zone? Did we gain a day for the lost posts. I had a small anxiety attack thinking I had missed an appointment I have on the 31st. I’ve only had time for a quick skim so apologies if there has been more than enough said about what day it actually is.

KZ said: { Mar 31, 2010 – 02:03:09 }

Interesting. To me, bloggers are the authors of the blog articles. In context here, we would be commenters or posters while JWG and Val would be the bloggers (authors) on Hinky.

But, I think I’m a little old school when it comes to online media channels, as many people seem to use ‘blogger’ now to mean that they post/reply/comment on blogs in shared conversations. Back in the days of yore, (less than a decade ago,) blog authors usually fell into only a few categories: political, corporate, academic. As more tools like Blogger and WordPress hit the web and became easier to use people were enticed by the ability to share their views worldwide.

I’ll stop there, I could go on forever on this topic. ;> I guess I should just go blog about it. LOL.

@ Susan…Sorry but I just now read your comment on thread #6 so didn’t get a chance
to reply earlier…I fully agree that the Anthonys’ main defense mechanism is to
refuse to embrace the seriousness of anything happening. I have been bewildered
on this since day 1 and wondering how these people survive with no sense of
GRAVITY. It’s like they still haven’t gotten to the REAL IMPACT of the loss of Caylee
and they refuse to be fully aware of the serious trouble Casey is in. It’s like they think
that if they refuse in their mind to allow the hard reality in, it can’t happen. Personally
I tend to do the opposite in any crisis, go into hyper-reality / survivalist mode,
so this is far out to me. On some level they know the truth, but their willpower is
directed to maintaining the charade at all costs because the truth is too scary and
unfathomable. This is only going to get uglier as the trial progresses. Eventually
the bottom will fall out and REALITY will make them all come out with their hands up.

If any of them sold their “exclusive story”, it would be from their point of view and most likely full of mistruths. I would like to see a professional, in depth assessment of all of them. Why is Cindy the way she is? What, in her childhood, contributed to her present mindset? When did George become a spineless wimp? How was he raised? And Lee…what REALLY went on in the Anthony household during your and Casey’s formative years? I don’t think we will ever know the absolute truth of what happened to Caylee, why it happened or what contributed to the eventual outcome. I would like to know one thing….what kind of cosmic joke is it that G&C found each other, procreated and had Casey, screwed that up, then got a chance to redeem themselves with Caylee and again, they failed, with tragic results.

Good night and sweet dreams everyone. See ya tomorrow.

karen lee said: { Mar 31, 2010 – 02:03:02 } I think she has left Canada, do you know anything for sure?

…briefly, on karla homolka ( which, to those who don’t know why she comes up here—-she’s a canadian diabolic lying sociopathic killer…

..out of prison in 2005,was living in quebec, went by (karla) Leanne Teale, tried (unsuccessfully ) to change her name to Emily Chiara Tremblay.dyed her hair black, worked at a hardware store in longueuil.neighbours feared her.
.had a son, moved to the Antilles—-and is now living in ont. with partner luka magnotta—and is studying law.
——–(-just google her name, or paul’s—gag order at the time—but tons out since.)

karen lee……..and canadians…

..last “karla” post–i promise! this site:

http://watchingkarlahomolka.yuku.com/
..has all you want,LE interviews,transcripts,media articles,pics.etc etc….

..of course,in canada, we got it all AFTER the fact.

..i personally think the florida “sunshine law” is something that all states and countries should have.

The “Sunshine” Law
119.01 General state policy on public records -enacted 1967
(1) It is the policy of this state that all state, county, and municipal records are open for personal inspection and copying by any person. Providing access to public records is a duty of each agency.

— Florida Statute, Chapter 119.01

……….if everything is out in the open, “out in the sunshine” for all to see , and have access to, how can that not be a good thing for the people ?

“Florida voters have overwhelmingly showed their support for government in the sunshine at all levels of government. They have made it clear they believe that open government provides the best assurance of government that is responsive and responsible to the needs of the people.”

Ellejay and those interested – re classic sociopathy – not to showcase Canada’s worst but now this – the Air Fore Colonel charged in the 2 1st degree murders of young women and also 2 separate home invasions/sexual assaults. He was an avid photographer and apparently carpeted his photo shoots with bed sheets which he took with him to limit physical evidence.

From him I suspect we might actually learn something. Seems he’s talking and being such an academic guy I bet he offer up his expertise. Such an accomplished good guy.

For those of you – most – I expect not knowing what the hell I’m talking of – he is the youngest Air Force Colonel in Canada and there aren’t many of them. He had a huge command. His poor wife has supported his career while excelling at her own. For her I pretty much can’t express my ability to put myself in her position.

Hilary Clinton is here kicking ass and it is great!

PotatoHead said: { Mar 31, 2010 – 01:03:20 }

Back to this case, I wonder how people in Florida feel about the Sunshine Laws in relation to Casey’s case?

On the other hand, if we didn’t have the ability to read and think about all the interviews, forensic reports, and watch the hearings, I also wonder if this many of us would still be following this as closely as we are?
__________________________________________________________

…if we didn’t have discovery, interviews, live hearings etc——-what would there be TO follow ? especially if there was a media gag as well until after the trial was over.

..then——-we’d be discussing it all after the fact—-in 2020???

..( of course we’d still get the odd picture, from some reporter, or some delusional person – hanging from a tree taking ‘spy’ photos.)

One thing I dont understand is the sunshine law gives us all the addresses of witnesses. I think that is so wrong ! And I felt so sorry for Jesse that all of his school and job history was handed out for millions of people to see. I see no good reason for that all to be released

» BrendaT said: { Mar 31, 2010 – 05:03:02 }
— the Air Force Colonel charged in the 2 1st degree murders of young women and also 2 separate home invasions/sexual assaults. He was an avid photographer and apparently carpeted his photo shoots with bed sheets which he took with him to limit physical evidence.

……and this pyscho, ( linking it back to karla h—he went to school with karla’s deranged husband paul bernardo)( as russel sovka).

..they are now looking at “old unsolved cases” in relation to col.williams.
..he is SUCH an avid photog—in the home invasions, he burst in—grabbed these women out of their beds—raped then, tied them up—-then took pics.

..and yes, i feel a lot of sorrow for his wife, a prominent assoc. dir. of the heart and stroke assoc.
..at 46, lt. colonel,commanding officer—-bet he thought he was invincible.

» ellejay said: { Mar 31, 2010 – 05:03:09 }

I know….

..i wonder if, with the “new Boss” at the table—-will baez be the one doing the arguing on this motion on monday?

» Fran said: { Mar 31, 2010 – 05:03:24 }
One thing I dont understand is the sunshine law gives us all the addresses of witnesses. I think that is so wrong ! And I felt so sorry for Jesse that all of his school and job history was handed out for millions of people to see. I see no good reason for that all to be released.

..i certainly see your point there. but, if one thing is “out in the sunshine”, it all is ( as i understand it.)
..it’s not FAIR, just b/c you happen to KNOW a criminal, and then your personal info is out there as well, but, for it to work, it has to be all or nothing.

..i feel quite sorry for a LOT of the people in this case—-whose lives have been scrutinized—–thanks to kc.

ellejay said: { Mar 31, 2010 – 06:03:33 }

..i wonder if, with the “new Boss” at the table—-will baez be the one doing the arguing on this motion on monday?

I’m betting not but know that I should wait and see. On the other hand it seems such a stupid motion why not let him argue it.

» BrendaT said: { Mar 31, 2010 – 06:03:09 } I’m betting not but know that I should wait and see. On the other hand it seems such a stupid motion why not let him argue it.

…….if he does, it will be a series of uhhhh…ummmmmmm..errrrrrr..stammer, stammer, …while the camera pans to kc doodling on her legal pad/ andrea shooting daggers out of her eyes AT jose.

@Fran: I totally agree about the wrongness of publishing witnesses addresses and
phone numbers due to “Sunshine Law.” They must be getting bombarded with all
kinds of wackos desperate to inject themselves into this case.
The very worst private data I’ve seen so far in this case has to be the publishing
of text messages between Casey and her friend Amy discussing Amy’s
inability to have orgasms. If that isn’t ripe for a lawsuit I don’t know what is.

omg Monica – I have never seen those texts !!! I would die if that was my text and got released to everyone and really why couldnt that delete that , no one needs to know, nothing to do with the case

Monica said: { Mar 31, 2010 – 08:03:02 }
————————————————–
………..as with fran—–i also have never seen that “private data”.

…if it IS out there——-i do agree——-somethings SHOULD be exempt from the “sunshine law”.

Definitely I’m not making that up. I don’t have an exact link but if you look at the
various “doc stock” type sites under the heading of text messages eventually
you will find it. Few people have the endurance to read through all that stuff
that’s why you don’t hear much about it. Most of it is trite greetings but here and
there you can find some entertainment. I can’t imagine who would text to their
friends on these subjects but apparently some people do.

Well, I think by and large if those texts do exist, we don’t need to go there, so let’s move on to something more relevant.

KZ said: { Mar 31, 2010 – 02:03:15 }

(Val may have to start a book club thread! Book mobile?)

I second and third this!

Val, I know we just moved in but we NEEEEEED a library. I’m having trouble catching all the recomendations. ( and a book worm smilie would be nice too )

I’m in for a book thread-avid true crime reader here (non-fiction snob, if you will). Catherine Crier might be able to do a bang up job on Casey Anthony, but I don’t think anyone can surpass the job Valhall did on Casey – the most insightful I’ve ever come across (and I’m not just sayin’ that either…

All good questions, EDRN. IMO, Lee is like his Father —a spineless Jelly fish that is only half a man and not willing to speak up since the very beginning. He is quiet for a reason, and was advised to clam up, IMO. Again—all links back to the observations you made.

I agree with you though—I find different behaviors from people extremely interesting. Even though much of what we wish to discover is disturbing, it is still fascinating to me. It’s the folks like Tim Miller—the Owners of these types of Blogs—Valhall & Blink that continue to give us hope that there really are lots of “good peeps” left out there in a world filled with various hate crimes, murders, kidnappings, exploitation of children & adults and all crimes of passion.

It certainly gives us all something to comment on and exchange ideas with one another—all of which we have in common that we obviously find quite enjoyable as we return here for our own private time or time to unwind. Really, truly—other than exercising, taking a nice walk outside and enjoying nature and all of the other million and one things we can do to keep ourselves occupied—-here is one small slice of something fun and thought provoking we all chose to do with a little of our spare time. My other half can have his stock market and yahoo finance pages (uuughh)— after the daily news, I’ll stick with these pages.

I was laying down with my 2 year old little girl (3 next month) last night and started thinking about the shirt Caylee was found in. I’m not sure if this has been discussed so I’m sorry up front! It seems to me that the shirt was packed for any overnights Casey had at Richardo’s, for example. I assumed this because of the pics of Caylee wearing this shirt in the Globe article. If Casey had these clothes packed and in her car to use as emergency overnights, how did Caylee get these clothes on that day? George’s description was totally different clothing so when did Casey change her? Almost seems like it suports the idea that she let the night before. Usually don’t post too often so thank you for all the had work and love you all put into this case. Caylee sure is a lucky little girl to have so many people she has never even met love her so much. When I look at her pictures it makes me cry and I thought about how many tears have been shed for Caylee by all of us…….you all are amazing!

My other half can have his geneaology and basketball, both so boring.
This is a great place to keep our minds open and functioning. The variety of opinions, and the strength of arguments, give my mind a great workout everyday. Maybe this is better than crossword puzzles to keep our minds active and young (we can only hope).
I too, find this case very intriguing. The recesses of the minds involved are dark, dark places. The psychology of this bunch is beyond understanding to the normal person.
Isn’t it interesting that they all (C&G, Baez, Conway) found each other? What are the chances that the personalities would all mesh together to a common goal? Where do they all find one another? Was there a great vortex in Florida that drew all the characters together? (insert tornado icon here)

NGBoston, I can SOOOO appreciate what you are saying.

» EDRN said: { Mar 31, 2010 – 03:03:14 } — you’ve expressed my exact thoughts and questions, too. I’m hoping Lee will write a book not unlike Scott Peterson’s half sister wrote, but there will be many books after the trial (or deal if one is ever struck). Possibly, someone from either side of the family will be looking to defend what’s left of their honor.

This clan certainly gives us a strange view into family dynamics and transgenerational behaviors. I’d be very interested in reading about these people and others (the Croslins) from a social scientist’s viewpoint. It goes beyond a simple query of what makes them tick.

» EDRN said: { Mar 31, 2010 – 01:03:28 }
Was there a great vortex in Florida that drew all the characters together? (insert tornado icon here)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
A woman after my own mind…lately I have been thinking of this case as, “The Perfect Storm.” Hasn’t it been, though? I have never followed a case so closely and I’m wondering if high profile cases always attract such a large number of vermin out for the all mighty dollar. I do think that the quest for profit has written a lot of the pages of information about this case…with so many characters inserting themselves into it for NO other reason but for the lure of money.
My mind always goes back to the visual picture of buzzards by the side of the road with Caylee being nothing more to them than road kill. It seems so clear to me that there are two very separate types of people in the world but to closely and ironically paraphrase Cindy and use her own words against her…
“WE will win.”

Chat,

Again, someone said it better than I. That is exactly what I was saying.
Remember Vincent Bugliosi? The prosecutor of Charles Manson? Maybe someone from the SAO will write a truthful book. I don’t think a book from any of the clan, will offer us any insight into why they are the way they are. It will just be filled with the persecution of Casey.

Monica, IMO a large part of Cindy’s (and Casey) denial mode is arrogance. In the end, everyone is wrong they are right. They are smarter than everyone else. If I say it it is true. I will lie and fool everyone else. If we get enough celebrity lawyers on the defense team they will figure a way to get Casey out of another one of her situations whatever/whoever they have to do. When Casey gets home life will go on as before, and Caylee’s name will never be mentioned again. Before I went to sleep last night I let my mind drift to how Casey went through the act of planning and carrying out the murder of this child. To imagine a human being perpetrating an act like this against a child in particular. not to mention preparing and tossing the little body away in the woods is too horrible for me. This has got to be one evil person. If a jury finds her guilty she deserves no mercy.

Below is my theory regarding how Casey murdered Caylee and the question about the shovel. I try to follow simple logic but when new evidence in presented I reevaluate my theory.

Due to cadaver dogs not hitting in the house but in the Anthony’s backyard, I have to go with my belief that Casey murdered Caylee in the pool. Whether she drugged her first or not I’m not sure but evidence of Casey looking up chloroform recipes etc. leads me to suspect she probably did. I believe Casey duct-taped Caylee’s mouth shut to make sure she didn’t scream then dumped her in the pool to drown. Most of us keep garbage bags and duct tape in our garage and the side door to the Anthony’s garage is near the pool area so it was easy access to those items.

Once Caylee was dead Casey probably ran in the house to grab something and spotted the Winnie the Pooh blanket first (Casey didn’t leave Caylee’s most precious doll with her so she certainly wasn’t looking for something sentimental to wrap Caylee in.) Casey probably picked Caylee up with the Pooh blanket and stuck her in a garbage bag and maybe did not secure it tightly, thus the leak. When Casey noticed the smell and leakage she came back to the house on June 18th, pulled her car in backward and put Caylee’s body in another garbage bag then the laundry bag, both were close at hand in the garage.

Now we know that when Casey borrowed the shovel on June 18th, Caylee’s body was most likely still in her trunk. From my understanding the neighbor did not know if she left the house with the shovel or not because they were not looking out the window. So, maybe Casey drove the short distance to the wooded site, near the school, with intentions of digging a shallow grave there but found the lower area covered in a little water so instead of digging she threw the bag in the water. The heavy storms came later and covered the bag even more.

Now, my one drawback is… would Casey have been stupid enough to go to the wooded area to dispose of the body in daylight? After thinking about it for a while I decided that sociopaths fear nothing and believe they are beyond getting caught. That task would have probably taken her less than five minutes and she was out of the woods so to speak. She knew that area very well and felt comfortable knowing that the road dead ends at the school. She would have known if school was still in session or out for the summer. She would know the hours that the road is traveled by students walking, buses traveling or parents dropping off or picking up their kids. So zeroing in on when that road was empty Casey felt safe in her old stomping grounds in daylight. So yes, I decided she would be bold enough to take what she considered garbage and dumping it there.

But, it’s just another theory.

Thinking – just one little problem with your theory. Caylee’s mouth and nose were duct taped, so she would have died without having been dumped in the pool. The rest of your theory is very plausible.

Nom De Plume said: { Mar 31, 2010 – 02:03:04 }
“Thinking – just one little problem with your theory. Caylee’s mouth and nose were duct taped, so she would have died without having been dumped in the pool. The rest of your theory is very plausible.”

Good point Nom De Plume… But did Casey want to make SURE Caylee was dead by throwing her in the pool? Remember, it may have been difficult for Casey to detect if Caylee was dead or not. Just a thought.

Thinking Out Loud, I think your theory is very interesting and based on logic.

I have always rejected the drowning theory although George and Cindy said the pool ladder was down when they got home June 16 indicating Caylee might have been in the pool that day.

The only problem I have with your drowning theory is that Casey didn’t just duct tape Caylee’s mouth shut. She duct taped Caylee’s NOSE and MOUTH, which would have killed her so why did she have to go to all the trouble to drown her?

I agree with the garbage bag theory.

As for her driving to the wooded area to try to bury Caylee’s dead body, I believe Brian Burner or one of his kids would have heard the car leave. He said she backed it up to the garage so he could see if the car had been moved. I don’t know how long she had the shovel.

Since Casey will never confess, we will never know where Caylee was killed, how she was killed, when she was bagged and if Casey intended on burying her in the back yard. I doubt if the cadaver dogs would have hit on three different areas in the back yard unless she placed Caylee in different areas while attempting to dig a grave.

However, it doesn’t matter. Since everyone on the blog agrees Casey did it, I don’t think the jury will vote anything but guilty of aggravated child abuse and first degree murder. I would like to see her get the death penalty because she has no remorse, no love for her dead toddler and her rubbing her hands with glee, bursting out in laughter and smiling at her last hearing indicates she believes she will get away with murder.

I see your point.

I was writing my post when Nom de Plume and Thinking Out Loud were posting.

Casey is lazy. I doubt if she would drown her to make sure she was dead after chloroforming and duct taping her. When someone is dead their eyes are glazed over and you can tell they are gone. She would have known Caylee was dead.

Hello all, Long time lurker here. The pool ladder could have been staged by Cindy. She knew Caylee was gone. Accident theory right from the beginning. When was the pool ladder out of place?? Anyone remember?? I don’t think it was June 16th.

Sally said, you brought up some very good points! Thanks!

I’m hoping that by the time this case goes to trial the prosecution team will be able to piece it together enough for the jury to understand and visualize how it happened.

Thinking out loud! said: { Mar 31, 2010 – 03:03:21 }

I’m hoping that by the time this case goes to trial the prosecution team will be able to piece it together enough for the jury to understand and visualize how it happened.
——————————————-

I wonder if we’ll see any reactions from Casey during her trial that will give us clues as to when the prosecution is right on a detail, and when they aren’t. She certainly had a strong reaction when Ashton discussed Caylee being duct taped. I believe she uttered, “Make him stop!” because the description was so accurate.

She does not seem to be responding well to coaching thus far. Perhaps she’ll shake her head at parts, i.e. the pool, and we’ll get non-verbal clues? If we watch closely when the State lays it out, she just might tell us more than we know now.

I love what Bill Sheaffer said about the defense and all the damning evidence that keeps coming up and that the are up against. He said something like “it’s like holes in the dam and after a while even Cheney Mason runs out of fingers,”

Neen said: { Mar 31, 2010 – 03:03:24 }
Hello all, Long time lurker here. The pool ladder could have been staged by Cindy. She knew Caylee was gone. Accident theory right from the beginning. When was the pool ladder out of place?? Anyone remember?? I don’t think it was June 16th.

***

I don’t believe Cindy staged the pool ladder incident. Cindy’s Gentiva co-worker Debbie Bennett specifically recalled that the pool ladder incident happened the week prior to the shed break-in. The shed break-in was discovered on Tuesday, June 24 (Cindy told Debbie about it the same day), so the pool ladder incident happened during the week of June 16.

Cindy would not have had reason during the week of June 16 to believe any harm had come to Caylee, let alone that she was dead.

» kari said: { Mar 31, 2010 – 01:03:26 }

Agree! and I’ve had the same thoughts

Sally Said said: { Mar 31, 2010 – 02:03:56 }

I have always rejected the drowning theory although George and Cindy said the pool ladder was down when they got home June 16 indicating Caylee might have been in the pool that day.

***

Cindy got home one day after work during the week of June 16 and found the gate to the backyard unlocked and open and the pool ladder up. George said Cindy immediately called him and asked him if he had used the pool that day before leaving for work. He said he had not used the pool that day. Cindy’s co-worker Debbie Bennett said Cindy believed someone had broken into the backyard and used their pool.

The following week, George discovered his shed had been broken into and his gas cans had been stolen. Debbie said the pool ladder incident had occurred a few days prior to the shed break-in.

No one has said the pool ladder incident occurred on June 16.

To Thinking…Well I think you are the only one on this site who thinks like I do about
a pool drowning theory. From the very beginning when I started lurking and reading
discovery docs, watching jailhouse videos betw C&G n KC the one thing that absolutely proves to me that KC drowned Caylee is when Cindy says that the new media theory is that Caylee was drowned- KC’s eyes bulge out, she gulps and v ery quickly recovers and says something like “well, there you go” meaning reporters are going to start with their rediculous speculations.

Another thing that sticks out in my mind is on a NG Show the week of Dec 11 2008 when NG was interviewing a reporter at the recovefry site on Suburban. The woman (KB?) don’t remember -stated that they had recovered a child’s bathing suit amongst
the remains. I’m beginning to think i’m delusional about this cuz it was never mentioned again. The reporter continued to describe further the scene and then I remember Nancy screaming WOWOWOWOWOW STOP! WHAT a child’s bathing suit was found? I have attempted to find an archived video of that show but have been unable to locate one on the NG site. This bathing suit find was never mentioned again and have seen nothing of this in any discovery released so far. I don’t think I dreamed this. Does anyone else have a recollection of a childs bathing suit being found and why would LE disregard this?

Thanks Maura. So it could have been the 18th or 19th when Casey borrowed the shovel. Maybe Casey jumped in the pool to wash off after handling Caylee’s dead body.

Here’s the problem/s I have with the idea Casey use the pool to wash off (or for any reason, really): Would you jump into the family pool to wash off decomp yuckiness? Why wouldn’t she just take a shower, where there is soap and shampoo?

If she just handled Caylee’s decomposing body, is it fair to assume she didn’t do it in a bathing suit? Would someone really jump into a pool fully clothed? Would they strip down in the middle of the day and then jump in the pool? Not sure I can get my head around why she’d jump in the pool when there was a perfectly good shower nearby. If she got caught showering it would be much easier to explain than if she got caught in the family pool nekkid or fully clothed.

I do not think the swimming pool had anything to do with Caylee’s murder. A couple of you have made reference to the burial of the shovel. What is this? I understood the shovel was returned to the neighbor about an hour after Casey borrowed it. Incidentally, I have the same never-ending battle with bamboo growing in the back of my property as was discussed as an excuse for Casey borrowing the shovel. I can tell you with some experience – you don’t use a shovel to do anything with bamboo roots. My theory of how Casey murdered her child is that of several of you – she used some sort of chemical/drug to sedate Caylee and wrapped her face in duct tape so that she could not breathe when she gained consciousness from the chemical (choloform?). I think she did all of this at the same time and then immediately bagged her, and put her in the trunk where she drove around with her until she dumped her in the woods. Maybe Casey considered the pool as a weapon for death and set the stage by removing the ladder, and when she didn’t use the pool never went back to put the ladder back in its place in the shed.

Glad you remember all the little details Maura. Thank you!!!!

I’m not too quick on the draw, but I still don’t get why Casey would use chloroform to ‘sedate’ Caylee in preparation for duct taping her. Why? It wouldn’t have been hard to kill her with JUST the chloroform or JUST the duct tape. Why go to all the trouble of whipping up a batch of homemade chloroform just to sedate a toddler so you could suffocate her with duct tape?

Sally Said said: { Mar 31, 2010 – 04:03:25 }

Thanks Maura. So it could have been the 18th or 19th when Casey borrowed the shovel. Maybe Casey jumped in the pool to wash off after handling Caylee’s dead body.

***

Casey’s cell pings show she was at the Anthony house on June 16, 17, 18, and 20. George had June 19 off, so it’s not likely Casey went anywhere near the house on Thursday. The testimony and ping evidence indicates she borrowed the shovel on June 18.

Burner said she was wearing shorts and a sports bra when she borrowed the shovel, and she was wearing the same outfit when she returned the shovel 60-90 minutes later. He said she did not look as if she had exerted herself in any way (she was not sweaty or dirty). So I don’t believe she jumped into the pool on the day she borrowed the shovel to wash off after handling Caylee’s body.

..shocker,baez claims in this news clip that kc borrowed the shovel while caylee was not yet missing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCvv0V8Tj4Q&feature=player_embedded (@3:40)

..in fact he says “she borrowed the shovel around the time she “went disappearing”…oh jose.

Ok, here’s my latest theories. I’ve tried to be as careful as I can with any of my thoughts.

The tape: Caylee would have pulled it off if she were able. 3 neatly cut pieces deliberately placed in order to _____? What? Keep the child from resisting if awakened? Keep the child silent? Make the child appear as if abducted? As part of a ritual only the killer would have dreamed up?

The shovel: Used in an attempt to dig a grave, but plan scrapped. Maybe used to lift items contaminated by decomp, but not necessarily the body. Possibly it was leaned against areas where dogs hit – possible to have transferred scent from trunk to back yard area. Returned in clean condition to Burner – rinsed off in pool or with garden hose(?).

Caylee’s clothing. George’s description has always been suspect. Casey states they haven’t found it. Tee shirt that was found with the remains appears in old photos. No shoes? Baby doll, car seat and backpack left intact as if it would appear ready for the child’s use.

The pool: As I recall it was reported to have been raining lightly on 6/16/08 – enough so you wouldn’t be in the pool. Casey had plans and probably wasn’t going to mess her ‘do. Don’t think the pool comes into play in this crime altho’ it seems like an obvious method.

Chloroform – just can’t get a logical grasp for that. How did it come into the household? For what purpose? Yes, yes, there’s been mention of nefarious uses by both Geo. and Casey. It seems very archaic and bizarre with all the other readily available substances on the street today. So, it was on the premises. I’m ok thinking that it was used in effort to rid the odor in trunk. I’m ok thinking that it could have been given to Caylee while she was napping but she probably would have woken up and resisted (unless given yet another form of sedative beforehand). The placement of the duct tape would have prohibited the intake of the fumes while she was alive.

I think the poor baby was drugged, then ‘fumed to make certain she was dead, and then Casey put her thoughts about how a kidnap victim would look and taped the facial area. She may not or may not have laid Caylee in the trunk in any bagging material that first day, but she had a hot date and she HAD TO GO, so everything was done in haste in order to meet Tony. Caylee was again put on “hold” until she could get back to her.

Has anyone ever watched that TV show that Casey downloaded about the nanny – any description of the child victim? Did the child die in that episode? I do not care to do so.

No chat, the child did not die in the One Tree Hill episode.

About the shovel – there were pavers found at the dump site. When I have to lift a patio stone or block in the yard, I will use a shovel on the edge so as not to do nail damage. Possible?

Just read Chat asked about child description – male about 3.

In the jail visit from George, on 8/03/08 they talk about how Caylee loved Spongebob Squarepants anyone remember? I was watching it today and the one character “Pearl” I noticed has a red heart as a mouth..

Look..

http://www.unitedspongebob.com/page.php?page=pearlbio

creepy.

Here is the video from that day where George and Casey talk about it.

@ :58

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4abiZ5t3VA&feature=related

Chat, what is your thinking about why Casey would drug Caylee, then use chloroform to ‘make sure she was dead’ when it would be so much simpler just to use the choloroform, or just to give her a massive overdose of a drug (any drug)? And why would she use a drug if she had chloroform on hand?

I don’t get the idea of using two murder weapons when one would do. A pulse, or the lack thereof, would tell you if the job was done or not.

Chat Lunatique said: { Mar 31, 2010 – 05:03:21 }

Caylee’s clothing. George’s description has always been suspect. Casey states they haven’t found it. Tee shirt that was found with the remains appears in old photos. No shoes? Baby doll, car seat and backpack left intact as if it would appear ready for the child’s use.

The pool: As I recall it was reported to have been raining lightly on 6/16/08 – enough so you wouldn’t be in the pool. Casey had plans and probably wasn’t going to mess her ‘do. Don’t think the pool comes into play in this crime altho’ it seems like an obvious method.

Chloroform – just can’t get a logical grasp for that. How did it come into the household? For what purpose? Yes, yes, there’s been mention of nefarious uses by both Geo. and Casey. It seems very archaic and bizarre with all the other readily available substances on the street today. So, it was on the premises. I’m ok thinking that it was used in effort to rid the odor in trunk. I’m ok thinking that it could have been given to Caylee while she was napping but she probably would have woken up and resisted (unless given yet another form of sedative beforehand). The placement of the duct tape would have prohibited the intake of the fumes while she was alive.

***

Casey made the clothing comment back in August 2008. During the period August 21-29, Casey made a comment to Tracy (LP’s female guard) as they were watching a news report about the search for Caylee that “They haven’t even found her clothes yet” or “They haven’t even found the clothes she was wearing.” She has not made any statements about Caylee’s clothing since the remains were found.

On June 16, the weather station at OIA (a few miles from the Anthony house) recorded very heavy thunderstorms and lightening between 2:20-3:53pm with the heaviest rainfall between 3:24-3:44pm.

The levels of chloroform in the trunk were higher than what would naturally occur during decomposition, but the amount of chloroform in the air sample was nevertheless very low (a trace level). I have never understood the theory that Casey would use a knock-out drug like chloroform to clean the carpet of her trunk. She would have know from her March Internet searches that it’s a highly dangerous substance that is so deadly and difficult to regulate that it’s no longer used as an anesthetic. Why would she pick chloroform to clean a basketball sized stain on her trunk liner?

Long time lurker, 1st time poster

Cindy got home one day after work during the week of June 16 and found the gate to the backyard unlocked and open and the pool ladder up. George said Cindy immediately called him and asked him if he had used the pool that day before leaving for work. He said he had not used the pool that day. Cindy’s co-worker Debbie Bennett said Cindy believed someone had broken into the backyard and used their pool.

I think the pool ladder was put there by Casey, to cover “an accident” theory she used on Cindy & George to cover her killing Caylee. After she was out on bail the 1st time, I think she told Cindy that Caylee had an accident and drowned in the pool. She told Cindy she was too scared to tell Cindy what had happened, cause Cindy had already called her a bad mother, so she told Cindy the Zany at the apt story. That is when Cindy knew Caylee was dead. Since there was nothing she could do change it, she decided all she could do now was save Casey. I think she came up with the Blanchard Park lie then. As for the duck tape, I don’t think she really knew about it until Caylee’s body was found. I think Casey did tell her where she put Caylee’s body and that Cindy sent Dominic Casey to look for Caylee’s body.
I know my idea has a lot of holes, but I’m trying to think about this how a sociopath thinks. It’s not easy to do that! LOL!!

Joiseyjuls said: { Mar 31, 2010 – 05:03:07 }

I agree that Cindy didn’t know about the duct tape until the body was found.

I also think Cindy sent Dominic to look for Casey’s body because she KNEW where it was.

Casey might have told Cindy that Caylee had a drowning accident after Cindy hung up from the 911 operator and that the Zanny story was bs, created on the spot because she was scared to tell the truth.

I think Cindy knew before LE arrived that Caylee was dead.

I don’t feel Casey set up the pool theory as far as placing the ladder, etc. though. Too much forethought/afterthought. And she had a movie date with Tony that night – Blockbusters can’t wait. I think she left it to Cindy to tend to the details as usual.

Lots of holes in my thinking too because it seems they continued with the Zanny theory while still dangling the pool idea. How the two would mesh I have no idea.

Also, as convinced as I am that Casey told Cindy where the body was, if Dominick had found it the duct tape would have been known. Casey must’ve chosen the lesser of two evils. Let Cindy find the body or there’s the chance someone outside the family would stumble upon it.

Since I think Casey “spilled” after she was bonded out maybe by that point she didn’t care if her parents found out she taped the baby — maybe it was more important to find the body and make sure it was moved to a better, more remote, spot. Maybe Cindy didn’t tell Dominick what to do with the body (I can’t imagine even THAT woman saying “toss Caylee to the alligators) but I can see her saying, “Dom, just get rid of it and don’t tell me how you did it.”

Just my thoughts like Swiss cheese too.

Ahh, yes, heavy rains. I was influenced about that from another account on a florida-based blog where it was stated that parts of Orlando can have heavy rain and across town it may be light(er). I did know it was enough NOT to be out in the pool, tho’. That fact has always helped my to eliminate the pool as a weapon.

I was thinking more about the Big Trouble tee-shirt surviving the bad conditions and the fact that photos of Caylee wearing it exist giving us something to hang on to with regard to Caylee’s will to tell the world who she was. Mom didn’t get rid of the car seat, back pack or baby doll. Was that Casey being inept or cagey? No shoes lets me think Caylee was killed at home, possibly in her own bed.

And as I said, I can’t get any logic for chloroform in this case – and it certainly does not bode well for the accused.

Said it before but I do not think Caylee was sedated before she was murdered. I also think chloroform was an ingredient in the cleaning agent used in the trunk. Either pure chloroform which George or Cindy accessed or were able to concoct or something commercial or industrial with a chloroform mix.

ha ha Chat. As much as I’d like to find out the answers I’m anti-torture. Even for someone like Casey. I know you were just joking but I hate the way waterboarding has become part of our common vernacular. I could go on a political rant right about now re: our past buffoon of a president but I’ll contain myself. lol.

Hey, on the plus side if this was not such a complex case with all the lying and mystery we wouldn’t be chatting it up everyday. Which I enjoy.

Mrs C Hop said: { Mar 31, 2010 – 03:03:57 }
» kari said: { Mar 31, 2010 – 01:03:26 }

Agree! and I’ve had the same thoughts

Thanks for answering me..It seems to me that the shirt was packed for any overnights Casey had at Richardo’s, for example. I assumed this because of the pics of Caylee wearing this shirt in the Globe article. If Casey had these clothes packed and in her car to use as emergency overnights, how did Caylee get these clothes on that day? George’s description was totally different clothing so when did Casey change her? Almost seems like it suports the idea that she let the night before. How do you think you ended up having it on? Was it just thrown in the bag or do you believe she was wearing it? If Casey was home when Caylee died, why was Caylee wearing a shirt from a backpack for overnights? sorry for repeated post and more questions than any answers…. Thanks again Mrs. C Hop

I don’t feel Casey set up the pool theory as far as placing the ladder, etc. though. Too much forethought/afterthought. And she had a movie date with Tony that night – Blockbusters can’t wait. I think she left it to Cindy to tend to the details as usual.

Good point jennyb. She is very lazy. I was just thinking she used the ladder, to say Caylee drowned cause she knew it was plausable enough for Cindy to believe.
For Casey just putting the ladder against the pool was not that much work. At least it was not as much work as trying to use the shovel to bury her.

Just to add to the conversation, wasn’t there a 4th piece of duct tape that the SA alluded to? Possibly used to restrain Caylee’s wrists? I could be completey off base. Also, do we really know that Caylee was wearing the big trouble t-shirt? In my mind, I think maybe Casey was trying to set Ricardo or Amy up. Were these Caylee’s clothes that were left at Ricardo’s and later put into the woods? Is it possible that the chloroform/gatorade bottle was a set up? Ricardo could be linked to chloroform even if only by association of the My Space or Facebook chloroform icon thingamajigee. Both things that might implicate Ricardo and company? I’m not convinced yet that Caylee was dressed at all when the murder occured but there may be evidence out there that I just haven’t yet strung together.

There was a Law and Order (SVU probably), that involved a child (with low chance of being missed) kidnapped into the sex and child porn industry, held in a basement room, got a hold of a phone and began communications with the woman detective. Ended up with a reveal to the perp of the detective on the line so they had critical time to find where she was from the few clues given by the child.

Ended with finding the perp and a cleaned room, no child. But clues on shoes of the perp, led detectives across the street to a burned out business. They located new disturbance and found a garbage bag of clothes and then the child buried and the show’s writers had the detectives note the smell of ‘chlorophorm’. Ended well, child was still alive.

But the history of Law & Order, the original shows, followed real events in the news for ideas, so how would the writers come up with ‘chloroform’, from current news stories related to the sex/porn/child rape ‘industry’? (or did they have a retro moment in writing and the chloroform was a flashback to the old crime films and is out of place in a modern setting?)

If these writers used the chemical in their script, then was the use of chloroform in crimes against children, in the news recently to give them that idea of it’s place in today’s crimes against children/human trafficking etc etc?

Thinking out Loud!
Awesome post! I’ve always thought that she drugged her, taped her poor little airways and threw into the pool to drown. Soft kill for KC. However, I didn’t know what she was trying to do with the shovel till I read your post. I didn’t think KC tried to bury her in the yard, I felt the cadaver dogs hit on the yard because KC laid her there (remember in the beginning when George seemed to be telling the truth when he said there appeared to be an indentation in the yard?). Your thoughts make perfect sense. How tragic and sad.
I love this site, thank you Val for EVERYTHING!
JUSTICE FOR CAYLEE

Chat Lunitique, I live in AL, but can be in Orlando in a few hours. Is there anything I can do?

Just love the way you think Jennyb! I always look forward to your posts.

I don’t believe Casey told a soul where she dumped the garbage bag containing Caylee’s remains because she wanted everyone to believe Caylee was alive. She believed she couldn’t be convicted of murder with a body. That’s why she hyperventilated when she learned the remains had been found.

These words in her Myspace poem posted July 7, 2008 to Cindy says it all:
Trust no one,
only yourself.
With great power,
comes great consequence.

Like other sociopaths, Casey believes she is smarter than anyone and most people are stupid. I think Lee, George and Cindy guessed where the remains were based on clues Casey gave in jailhouse visits. I think the Anthonys sent Dominick Casey out to the site in November.

These clues:

1- “I have a gut feeling that she is close to home” or “She is close to Holt,” The remains site was close to the Anthony home and Holt Elementary School, where Casey attended.
2- “Look (for Caylee) where we played as kids and a friend knows about.” Kiomarie Cruz said Casey and her played at the remains site, buried their pets there and suggested police search the very area where Caylee’s remains were found.
3- “Look (for Caylee) where I took pictures for Mom.”

If Caylee was alive and kidnapped, the last place a kidnapper would hide a live child would be close to the family home and a place where the Anthonys were familiar. So that didn’t make sense.

I’m confusing myself. Just skimmed the Defense’s motion for all the TES records. Is it just me or are they all delusional about the fact that when Jordan and Buchanan were (allegedly) there in SEPTEMBER, Caylee’s body couldn’t have been there because they didn’t notice any particularly busy insect activity and didn’t smell any human decomp.

This was over two months after that baby’s body was dumped. Wouldn’t she have been skeletonized by then? Wouldn’t the critters have taken away anything that could have been eaten? So, why would anyone think there would still be an odor or heavy insect activity? The only thing there would have been bones. The smell and insect activity would have been long gone by then, wouldn’t it?

Question: If DC did know that Caylee was out in those woods, why did he stop looking?

I think he did know, and that Cindy sent him there, but I always stumble over the question above. Was it only a rumour even to Cindy, so once DC ‘cleared the area’ then they let it go? If they were positive Caylee was there I don’t know why any of them would stop looking.

I believe they did search the woods for a reason, but I am not yet convinced they had definite knowledge.

Hey Tater -

I’m thinking he searched 3 times (that we know of) and maybe he reached futility stage. Perhaps he communicated the idea that the bag had been dragged away by animals or washed away by water and he just gave up.

Sally Said – I believe Dominick was heard on the audio saying something like: “She should be right here.” That’s no vague gut feeling of a search. She Should Be Right Here. That sounds like someone with an exact spot in mind. Exact. Also, he told Jim Hoover that they were going to get the baby and that she was dead. If you believe Hoover, which I do.

Hinky Meter Reader UnKronked (lol) – Thanks for saying such a nice thing.

Should say: She didn’t believe she could be convicted without a body.

Also, Caylee was not found where Casey and Kio buried their pets. “Close to Holt” means nothing. Yeah, it wasn’t all that far but every square inch of that entire area was pretty overgrown to the point where you’d need a machete to carve a path if you didn’t know exactly what you were doing.

Saying “close to Holt” or “familiar area” or “where we played as kids” doesn’t cut it for me.

I agree that Dom knew Caylee was there, when I watched the short video of him at Suburban, I see him exit the woods and look around like he’s trying to get his bearings. He looks side to side, and up and down the street as though trying to find some landmark.

That and the fact that he was THERE at all. Add to that, Cindy’s statement that she had “her people” search that area and they found nothing, and that tells me cindy knew Caylee was there as well,

How could she sleep at night knowing her grandbaby was down the street rotting in the woods? How could she not choke on every bite of food?

@Linda Pope: Definitely I agree on all counts. But also add to it that I am still perplexed
as to why she would have snapped to this radical extent. She could have easily given
the child up for adoption and split with far less hassle, even if she didn’t want that to
be Cindy. Even though her family may be dysfunctional, they’re still not the Dahmer
family – there’s a real lack of extreme circumstances there which would push someone
this far. Her friends that are known all seem nice and even wholesome. So there’s this
big gap – what went down to make her go postal? We’re missing a critical piece to
the puzzle. Even if she is a narcissistic sociopath, she could have just ditched the kid
and not put herself at risk. There’s one more factor to this drama we still do not
yet know.

I think Cindy knew where the body was by instinct.She knew Casey all to well and by deciferring Casey comments she figured it out(not trying to say Cindy is intelligent)
She sent “her people” because she didnt want to be the 1 to find Caylee.
I just wonder if DC will ever come clean-we know Bozo and Casey will never spill the beans but George ia another story.he does not like to bow down to Cindy and when it is all said and done-he will crack -to someone he trusts : for al the wwrong reasons.
JMO

Monica,

Val did a fascinating series on erasure (or is it *eraser*) killers. Read about the people who murder their families. Why not divorce? Seems like the most practical solution, no?

To me it’s the same kind of breed of person. They want to ERASE permanently. Casey would never have been free of Caylee, even if she felt Cindy would have taken her willingly. Which she probably didn’t. Cindy would have taken the baby most likely but Casey would never have heard the end of it.

Casey wanted Caylee GONE. She wanted out of that TRAP and she wanted Cindy out of her life for good. Would the phone calls and the demands have stopped if Cindy took Caylee? No way. Only one way to get her freedom (in her sick mind) and that’s to do what she did.

When did Cindy make her “We don’t believe she’s in the woods” slip up

Well there’s reality and then there’s perception. The only way Casey could have left Caylee behind and alive would be if Casey could truly leave, have the means to take care of herself, disappear and never look back.

Even though Casey had a fantasy of tagging onto some man — she probably knew deep down that she’d have to ultimately stand on her own two feet. And she had no tools for living, no idea how to manage.

We know realistically Casey could’ve gone out in the world never to be heard from again and Cindy would’ve been the ultimate martyr of a grandmother — it’s been done before. But in Casey’s little mind it was not possible without eliminating the PROBLEM. The GLUE that held her like flypaper to her despised mother. Caylee.

That’s my opinion!

jennyb said: { Mar 31, 2010 – 08:03:05 }
Sally Said – I believe Dominick was heard on the audio saying something like: “She should be right here.” That’s no vague gut feeling of a search. She Should Be Right Here. That sounds like someone with an exact spot in mind. Exact. Also, he told Jim Hoover that they were going to get the baby and that she was dead. If you believe Hoover, which I do.

The point is Dominic Casey and Hoover didn’t find the body where he said it would be. The remains were found in the same area a month later but not where Dominick pointed to which indicates to me that they were following a hunch and not a tip from Casey. I just can’t picture Casey telling anybody where she put the remains because she wouldn’t trust anyone and she didn’t want to get caught. For a month, she didn’t tell a soul Caylee was dead. After she was arrested, why would she tell anybody where the body was when they could turn her in and testify against her? Without a body, her defense would be Caylee was alive.

@Jennyb: Maybe so…but then I would also think that in killing her daughter she would
NEVER be free of it – would be haunted by it and on the run for the rest of her life.
She could have easily given her for adoption to her good friend KioMarie who lived
in the same neighborhood and would allow Cindy access to her – and then split
with any one of her sucker boyfriends who would have supported her, even if only
for awhile. This still seems so convoluted and stupid, even from a sociopath’s view.
If she wanted to do things for her own convenience there were definitely more
convenient, easy and faster solutions. So I have to think it was more a breakdown,
a snapping, a loss of control. Some kind of mental/emotional disturbance where
she went over the edge completely and acted from rage in the moment. I will still
hold that there’s more to the story we don’t know yet.

Great posts everyone and now perhaps a post a put up a few months ago may be better received today.

I sense, that for the most part, people do not like to speculate however for piece of mind the only way we can comfortably go along in our daily lives IS to speculate on what Casey did and to delve into her psyche.

I am no clinical psychologist or psychiatrist but she expels the classic case of a sociopath with a tendency for narcissistic rage. Like everyone has mentioned here and in older posts it best explains her reaction in December when he body was found. Furthermore her irritation with investigators or her family when she was first bonded out and the subject would turn to Caylee. And, as it has been mentioned numerous times, everyone was told to look for a live Caylee but she was telling Lee to look where they used to hang-out as kids. And my fav “I feel she is very close to home”. I agree whole-heartedly that she had been playin detectives from the get-go along with her parents.

But I go back to my theory, and perhaps you all can tell me I am off my rocker We can all agree that there are many uses for chloroform however only one use for little ol’Casey. She used it to knock her daughter out. Now referring to Maura’s timeline (which is a very good read and well put together and the cell phone pings provided by JWG) it is shown that for the time while Cindy was on vacation Casey was not at home however her cell phone pings show her in close proximity to the Anthony residence. Taking into consideration that Casey and Cindy had an argument (probably about Casey’s parenting and Cindy wanting to have a couple relaxing days w/o her grand daughter) Casey stormed off. Obviously her night time life was more important then being a parent so my thought was that, in a fit of rage, she used the chloroform on her daughter and put her in the trunk, she then duct-taped her (mind you she used 3 strips of duct-tape) and put her in the trunk. My thought was that she used the duct tape in case Caylee awoke (but then why 3 strips and my thought is, as well as anyone else, she did that purposefully knowing she wouldn’t be burdened with being a parent and start her “Good Life”). Once she was certain that Caylee was “expired” she then borrowed the shovel from her neighbor to simply put Caylee in the laundry bag found at her home. The stains in the trunk, IMO, are consistent with Caylee in the laundry bag because, IMO, if she was lying on the trunk carpet directly there would be an even better outline, IMO.

This would lead right into her dad hitting a squirrel and its remains plastered to the underside of her car (I am not sure but I could’ve sworn tests revealed that there were no traces of a dead animal). I myself see no reason for George to ever borrow her car let alone if he ever borrowed her car. Within days of Caylee’s death Casey dumped her in the woods knowing full well that heavy rains would develop and fill-up the canal. What she hoped for was that water would carry her away but it didn’t, it held her down and plant growth began and it is mentioned in Dr. G’s medical examination report. Either way, the fluids that soaked through the laundry bag left a pretty good outline (my guess is that Casey never suspected it would leave a trace outline) and nonetheless the smell permeated her car throughout. So in order to try and cover-up the smell, better yet explain the smell, the story of her dad hitting the squirrel was circulated and to make it sound even more believable she took trash from her boy toy’s appt. and put it into the trunk in an attempt to mask the odor. She then ditches the car in a parking lot nearest a large garbage receptacle and that is when her questionable intelligence comes into play because, if I am not mistaken, the parking lot in which she abandoned her car was largely paper products which, at least IMO, do not emit a foul smell. Its at this point, IMO, that she screwed herself because she knew her car would be towed and contact would be made to the title holder.

What I find funny today is Baez having issues with TES and pointing out that they observed nothing unusual. And, all of those who filled out a deposition are right, there is nothing unusual about a canal with water therefore why would it be in a statement (that’s my thought at least).

Pstttttttt! To Valhall:

Just wanted to comment that the site is really super duper fast now. Just placed an order for some HM merchandise, too.

Best wishes from Boston for your continued success & Happy Easter !

Question – Why is it that when I copied and pasted a post from another blog, I was stomped and it was deleted, but when another copied and pasted the exact same post, they were thanked?

EDRN says:

Was there a great vortex in Florida that drew all the characters together? (insert tornado icon here)

Hahah, good one. What a mix, eh?

@ Chat Lunatique—-completely concur about your musings on the borrowed “shovel”…she returned that in a rushed fashion—IIRC, there was no forensic evidence found on it so appears she had planned on some digging—but as we know from how poor Caylee’s remains were disposed—seems Casey did not use it for it’s original intended purpose.

@Jenny B=====Bingo! Excellent observations about Casey’s mindset and probably very close to 100% accurate, IMO. So true and so cold and cunning of her. This is when I want to go rattle those bars in her jail cell and holler– You Selfish “Beeeeeep!”

Sally Says: “which indicates to me that they were following a hunch and not a tip from Casey.”

Why would Dominick go into the SAME snake and bug infested area three times on a hunch? He went to a very specific place — he was on the telephone saying: She Should Be Right Here. Or some such phrase.

That’s quite a hunch. There were many leads and tips flowing into the Anthonys. Why follow this HUNCH so many times? What was it about this hunch?

He told Hoover he knew she was dead. And they were going to go get her. They were going to retrieve a dead body from a specific spot. As fab as Dom is he can’t control nature and that’s what he probably thought he’d come up against. No, she wasn’t there where she was supposed to be. Why? Because he got the spot wrong and he couldn’t see one inch in front of his face in the densely packed foliage. But he probably thought she’d been swept away by water or dragged by animals. A guy can only do as much as a guy can do.

He was a busy PI too. Why waste his time rambling around on a hunch for a FOURTH or FIFTH TIME when he could be digging up dirt on innocent people, taking pics of mall children and creating false rumors of Caylee being alive in Puerto Rico, Guadalajara or wherever.

Sorry. He was at that spot for a specific reason and for the grace of God he didn’t find the body (some think he may have but I’m not one of them).

He was very very close to finding the body. A mere few feet away if I recall correctly. It’s a miracle he didn’t see Caylee, truly. Whoever told him to look at that spot couldn’t give him a road map with every tree and branch and leaf. I believe he missed her by a hair and that’s all there is to it. Maybe Caylee made herself invisible to him but visible to Kronk. I think she will finally point the way to justice in this case.

Just another view on Casey’s mindset. From her jail calls and videos, it looks to me she wanted to be in the princess spot with no competition. She doesn’t even feign fear,sorrow, stress, nada, zip. She boldly demands attention. She demands bail. She throws tantrums. It’s clear that she did erase Caylee and once it was public knowledge that Caylee was missing (dead), she for all intent and purpose became the center of Ga & CA’s universe again, with no interference from Caylee.
The A’s actually restored her to her princess position. Her outlandish behavior was never condemned, she had the family defending her at all opposition, she had “people” to talk for her, make important deals for her. It’s revolting to realize that even as a convicted felon sitting in a isolated cell, she arrives in court as if she’s a debutante.

I’m going with Bman’s theory. At least that is the way that I have always suspected it went down. I also believe she used tylenol, benedryl,,, meds quite often as a sitter/nanny-then advanced to chloroform in the end.

Does anybody know if Dominic Casey had prior knowlege of Kronk’s previous calls to LE before he actually discovered the body? I am just wondering if that information landed in the defense’s hands in some discovery docs? Cindy spent days pouring over the discovery docs she got from Baez and she generated alot of her goofy theories from these docs? That might be why DA knew where to look?

Is there anyone that has been close enough or a report given , whether neighbours can actually see into the pool area of the anthony home ? They dont live in a rural area, houses look close together. If you have neighbours that can see into the yard, then there is no way casey is gonna throw caylee into a pool to drown. It seems very risky to have been doing anything with a dead caylee in a back yard and feel the dogs hitting on the backyard could have been more to do with cindy laying out stuff from the car in the backyard. And lifting a dead caylee with a shovel , how does that work ? There has to be some reason for the shovel but I havent found anything yet that really explains it to my brain

WESH has an article up that the guard who may have helped pass the letters is suspended with pay as of today. Sounds like the investigation is still ongoing. It also states that Casey may face punishment herself.

http://www.wesh.com/caseyanthony/23017611/detail.html

jennyb said: { Mar 31, 2010 – 08:03:05 }

Good point, Jenny. Perhaps he did think it had been washed away.

Altho she may have privately confessed to an accident, I’ve always believed that Casey put Caylee in the pool and calmly watched her drown. Quick, easy, quiet. No muss, no fuss. There was little danger of being observed because it’s a neighborhood of one-story homes. If caught in the act, I believe she could/would have quickly switched to either rescue (Caylee alive) or recovery (Caylee deceased) mode, and easily have fooled anyone who did look over the fence at that moment in time.

Caylee was getting to the age when her verbal skills were progressing rapidly. She may not have offered up information as such, but may have repeated names, words, phrases and/or imitated behavior which Cindy found suspect. She may have been able to give simple answers to questions asked by Cindy, answers which did not bode well for Casey. As for the duct tape, I think it was symbolic of shutting Caylee’s mouth once and for all and was placed after the drowning.

Re the chloroform level in the trunk, I remember reading some comments about a year ago, I can’t say exactly where. But the comments were related to chloroform as a by-product when chlorine dissipates. I’m pressed for time today, but did locate this, first paragraph, page 4:

The permittee may elect to use a dechlorination unit, or if space allows, may elect to construct a temporary holding pool and allow for chlorine dissipation. Either method is deemed satisfactory, provided that complete removal of chlorine is achieved. Also, due to the generation of chloroform in chlorinated water supplies, it is proposed to limit the discharge of chloroform to 1.24mg/1m in accordance with the Water Standards of Series I, Section 8.22 of the WVLR.
http://www.dep.wv.gov/WWE/permit/general/Documents/5941_GP_Hydro_factsheet.pdf

I’m at a loss to explain the computer search for chloroform, unless it was related to the bf’s Win Her Over With Chlorform posting, in which case it’s just a coincidence (not that I believe much in coincidence).

Gracie34, I wonder about that too. Did the Anthony’s have a police scanner and could have heard Kronk’s calls? Did an Anthony (or a neighbor who told them) see a cruiser in that location? I don’t think Casey told anyone where to find Caylee.

“Maybe Caylee made herself invisible to him but visible to Kronk.” Jennyb, you just sent shivers down my spine. What an awesome little girl we are all seeking justice for. She didn’t live to see her third birthday, but she has changed the world. Friendships have been formed, communities developed and money grabbers have been outed for the pigs that they are. Heroes have been made and anti-heroes have been exposed as the scum that they are.

I got my large size Hinky mug today — yippee!

Is it good quality, Steffiee. I sure hope so.

Because the Anthony’s so called foundation is set up as a non profit do tey not have to disclose financial records? If so has anyone seen those records or where would you go to get access to them?

Could some one please respond back and let me know how the speed of the site is right now? Is it loading quickly or lugging down?

Thanks in advance.

Good speed here

Good speed here, too. The mug is very nice quality, nice rounded edges, nice heavy weight, tall. I’m pleased with it and the tasteful border Hinky logo. Perfect for big morning coffee checking the site.

MJ said: { Mar 31, 2010 – 10:03:49 }

I agree with every insight you’ve written there. To me this also answers
jennyb said: { Mar 31, 2010 – 08:03:16 } post – this is why Casey didn’t just leave.

She wanted to be free of Caylee and go back to being Mom & Dad’s only, precious little girl.

“All they care about is finding Caylee.”

When spending time at the Anthony home Tracy recalls Casey drawing the subject away from Caylee and hauling out pictures of her own childhood birthdays and talking about the parties Cindy threw for her.

It wasn’t just that Casey resented being a young Mom. She didn’t like sharing the attention and role of Princess with Caylee. Even before Caylee was murdered Casey didn’t seem to talk about Caylee that much to her friends, other than when she was whining about needing a sitter so she could go get busy. That’s always seemed like a precursor to trouble to me.

Any Mom of toddlers that I’ve encountered is always filled with cute stories about their kids, and most talk incessantly about them. Especially during the toddler years because they grow, learn and change weekly. That Casey’s conversations weren’t peppered with many mentions of Caylee long before she was gone strikes me as very unusual.

Val,

The speed is great!!
I just read the link posted above regarding the letters. Isn’t it funny how Baez calls the person who told of the letters is a jail house snitch. I’d say it’s better to be a snitch than a B!tch who murders her own child. I hope she is prosecuted for writing the letters. She’s gotten by with too much in her life and she needs to learn that she is not above the law.

Hi, Willow – thank you for sharing about your son. You’re right, it’s mind-blowing how people just throw away or walk away from LOVE. Life is full of troubles. It’s love and nurturing your inner goodness through sharing, service, commitment, loyalty, fun!, comfort, hard work — that’s what a good life is about, in my humble opinion.

Willow “Teeb”

» jrube said: { Apr 1, 2010 – 12:04:55 }

… it’s better to be a snitch than a B!tch

***

HA HA LOL HA HA love that

PotatoHead~ the other astounding aspect in addition to the ones you mentioned is that Casey didn’t have any visible fear of Cindy. She was angry about being hauled away from TL’s, she was exasperated about having to talk to the LE but seems like she was very sure in her own mind that the cards would fall and Cindy would pick them up for her …and she was right.
The only consequences she ever had to endure revolved around her crummy mothering of Caylee. It appears that her laziness about taking care of her (Caylee) was the one and only thing that she got called on. It was a big gamble, but she had an entire lifetime of monopolizing the household and she has no remorse so there’s no chink in the armor for Cindy to pick at. When she was out on bail it was Cindy that circled the wagons, the dysfunction in that house is unfathomable.

The most mind blowing thing about it all IMO is that she hires a lawyer that is just as delusional as she is. He seized the opportunity and has been about as unethical as one can get. His ambition seems as skewed as hers does to me. They want something so badly and don’t care who they destroy to get it.

There are some really good minds musing over theories on this blog but I’m not getting the whole “tape-her-nose-&-mouth” and THEN throw her in the pool? It doesn’t make any sense to me. The second she put the first piece of tape on her face Caylee began to die. That would immediately be made clear, no?

Where can I find Maura’s Timeline? Is it right under my nose?

MJ,

Its that vortex there in Florida that drew all these crazies together.

Bees — the timeline on this site is at the top of the page, on the right under “library” called “timeline and discovery.”

I think she put her in pool after the chloroform so she wouldn’t struggle and then put the tape on afterward in some kind if sick little ritual. Casey’s way of saying Caylee could never tell on her.

Val,
Do you think that Casey had a larger plan – one that included Caylee getting kidnapped , Cindy and George knocked out with chloroform and slain with a household weapon (by the kidnappers), The lone survivor Casey could have the house and Amy could move in . Hell Amy already changed her address!

vicki said: { Mar 31, 2010 – 11:03:53 }
Altho she may have privately confessed to an accident

Vicki, an accident is not a crime. If Caylee died as a result of an accident, Casey would be set free. If Casey “privately confessed to an accident” she would have told the investigators it was an accident when they gave her a chance and she wouldn’t be sitting in jail facing the death penalty. She would be out pole dancing and partying.

Also, whoever she confessed to would be telling the prosecutors rather than let an innocent person sit in jail. Casey never confessed to anything. Up until Caylee’s body was found, she claimed Caylee was alive. Now she just professes her innocence and has never budged from her The Nanny did it story.

Thanks, Steffiee! I have to go check that out.

@Raceyrin: My friend in Orlando told me exactly what you just posted and that
it was considered well-known among locals that she definitely was potentially
that violent. It is popularly believed that she killed Cindy’s dogs and made one
attempt – however failed – at arson on the home. I have to think that if she
went that far Lee would totally kick her butt.

Anyhow…on to the good news…I am right now drinking green tea out of…
my brand new official Hinky Meter coffee mug!!!
Kudos to Val on these cool products…the graphic has an interesting sort of photo
finish like a photo negative but in color. Hooray!!!
This got me thinking I might like some funky Joy Wray merchandise…
Like perhaps a baseball jersey with long sleeves and the heading
“Joy Wray Baker Act Tour 2010″ with all the names of the various places she
was held in during the year – or might be. And on the front it would have
Joy in the figure of a Medusa with a baseball hat and searcher’s stick and
Casey celebrity cheap sunglasses and a sign “Casey is Innocent!”
But that might bring a lawsuit huh?…

Sally, I wholeheartedly agree with you. If the death had been accidental we’d know about it by now. Casey would not be sitting in jail waiting to be prosecuted in a capital one murder case. She couldn’t even lie now and try to say it was accidental because the State would insist that whatever scenario she painted foe them would have to fit perfectly with the evidence they now have. She can’t do it and she knows she can’t.

Monica said: My friend in Orlando told me exactly what you just posted and that
it was considered well-known among locals that she definitely was potentially
that violent.
****************
I’m a local and can assure that that certainly ISN’T ‘considered well known among locals’. Sounds like someone making a pretty bold statement hoping no one calls them on it.

I’m callin’ ‘em on it.

PS: Valhall, site is moving beautifully for me. Well done, you!

What can I say? I guess . . . WOW!!! That timeline is a thing of beauty!!! I shudder to think of how much time must have went into creating it. And all of those links referencing where the info came from? Incredible. It is the definitive Timeline. A million thanks to Maura and to anybody who may have assisted her. Very, very cool !!!

EDRN Wish that vortex would deposit them all over a large oozing FL. sink hole and they would all go buhbye forever…………….

Unfortunately there would only be others to take their place…we can’t escape them.

Pondering: I did not assert it as FACT. I have only relayed what was told to me
from a very credible source in Orlando. I’ve not known her to be inaccurate.
Then today I read someone here relaying the same ideas so I wanted to verify
that yes I have heard this from other sources, bloggers but also someone I know
to be especially credible.

MJ said: { Apr 1, 2010 – 12:04:06 }

Again, I agree on all statements. I don’t think Casey was afraid of Cindy at all.

I do think that Casey worried about Cindy trying to get custody of Caylee. Not because Casey had a great love of caring for her little child, but because Casey wanted to keep up appearances. What would her friends say if Cindy got custody? Casey couldn’t spin that very well, as Cindy did seem to have some contact with several of Casey’s friends. Likewise, Lee did, too.

That is just one more reason Casey opted for murder. She didn’t want Cindy to ‘win’ anymore than she wanted people to know the true extent of her poor mothering abilities.

For me, the strongest example of her twisted psyche that couldn’t engage as a Mother prior to the murder has always been the eerily quiet video of Caylee. There is not a bit of interaction or communication from the person behind the camera. It is as if the person filming was entirely disengaged. Like they were doing a documentary studying a bug.

A couple of things about this case never leave me. One is Caylee’s Mama Doll and that video is another that haunts me. The duct tape and the stains and all of the rest really bother me. But that video truly does haunt me on a more emotional level in that I wonder how many times Caylee was treated like that when alone with Casey long before she was murdered?

@PotatoHead: I think the only things Cindy held over Casey were financial support
she couldn’t do without and the potential she could take over custody of Caylee.
I totally agree that the video was disturbing. Caylee looked to me to be heavily
medicated in some way and it’s creepy the way she was filming the camera under
the table and between her legs. That suggests to me that Casey could possibly
been sexually abused and acting out, with potential to pass on that abuse to her own child. It’s definitely not normal for a mother to refuse to speak to her child and then
make a film from these angles.

raceyrin,

After we heard about the chloroform, household weapons and shovel searches I immediately thought the same thing. She was going to off G and C and stage it as a break in and that is why Casey had Amy believing that she was moving in. Her plan went awry after the fight on fathers day. Her rage at Cindy put a kink in her plan…the only thing she had on her mind was getting Cindy back right then. God love little Caylee, Casey took it all out on her. I’m not sure if she was going to kill Caylee in her original plan or not…but knowing what we know of her thus far more than likely she would have been murdered also. I can picture Casey sneaking in during the wee hrs of the morning to take out G and C. Darn that Cindy, she went and ruined Caseys plan…Cindy should consider herself lucky. I wonder IF this was her plan, would Cindy be screaming for Casey to be prosecuted then?? Why they’ve never stood for little Caylee is something that any normal person cannot understand.

Monica, what video are you talking about? I don’t think I’ve seen this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=807kMNkVl0k&feature=PlayList&p=826EE5365B245FD3&playnext_from=PL&playnext=1&index=2

@Jrube: There it is…most of them come up “internal server error”
and won’t play but this one did when I tried it just now…
Many bloggers insist that Casey coaches her saying the word “kill”
early in the video and that she is mimicking the words “I’ll kill you”
but I’m not sure what to think on that one.

Nauseated, without checking the timeline, Cindy made the statement after the body was found and when Sgt Allen and team served a search warrant on the home. George was sent off to the back patio with the Milsteads, and Cindy was the LE front person, it was then that she made the statement that she had sent people to search those woods. Check around December 08′ in the timeline, it should be in there.

Thanks Monica, I had not seen that until now. It does sound like she’s saying kill doesn’t it? It gave me the creeps because no one was talking to her and why the shot under the high chair?? Weird, very weird.

I’m sure Cindy had threatened to throw Casey out many times, just as she threatened to take custody of Caylee. Casey knew she wouldn’t kick her out because of Caylee. Now, if Cindy had actually gotten custody, then Casey would have really had something to worry about. I believe at that point that Cindy was fed up enough to withdraw financial support from Casey if she was sure Casey couldn’t take Caylee, JMO. Caylee was the pawn and Casey know George and Cindy would pick Caylee over her. How things have changed — what was given has been taken away — with the result that the A’s now choose supporting Casey over standing up for Caylee and seeing that her murderer is held responsible and punished.

Bees Knees said: { Apr 1, 2010 – 01:04:05 }

What can I say? I guess . . . WOW!!! That timeline is a thing of beauty!!! I shudder to think of how much time must have went into creating it. And all of those links referencing where the info came from? Incredible. It is the definitive Timeline. A million thanks to Maura and to anybody who may have assisted her. Very, very cool

***

That’s 100% Valhall’s timeline, Bees. And it is a thing of beauty!

“THE LINE” =

Oh, there was room for more stars!

I wouldn’t put it past Casey to practice her poison on a innocent little dog though ! Casey had this whole fairytale worked out in her head .She probably pictured everything going smoothly and calmly. I agree the fight with Cindy prob set everything in motion. Can you imagine the words between the two ? Unfit mother, spiteful b**ch,liar and thief probably set casey’s blood boiling. If Cindy left(according to neighbor) and Caylee was crying …too awful to type the next part. Gerorge said he didn’t see casey and couldn’t remember if her car was there or not that night. Then Says Cindy left for work same time as every morning. Cindy says she left 30 mins early and “heard” them sleeping but did not look in on them. They covered up to hide thier little darling Casey’s motive.

Looking at post times Val……

April Fools Day already???

I look at the time line almost every day. Today I looked to remind myself what was found with the remains. I have been corrected many times by you great posters. I am learning to do my own research before I post. I love the hinky so much. Other sites are all just Casey is guilty and justice for Caylee. I love that we can think here and bounce ideas off one another.

Maybe my time-lines off….????
10:38 cst March 31rst…… maybe! twinkie:

okay nobody seems to think that anyone can see into the back yard, but I cannot believe that some people think she would Murder her little daughter on a summer day afternoon or evening in her own back yard. Geez when I am my back yard I have had people suddenly appear that I had no idea until they were right up to me. If the state tried that theory in court I would have to vote her innocent cause I dont for a second believe anyone would do that. I dont know how or when it happened but no one, not even sick Casey is going to murder someone when someone else could easily walk in on her. Murdering her in the bathtub in her own house doesnt seem plausible to me either. Her putting caylee in the trunk and caylee dying there is one of the few believable theories I have heard. Dont get me wrong, I think Casey killed her but how and when are still a mystery to me

» WHAAA?? said: { Apr 1, 2010 – 03:04:22 }

Looking at post times Val……
Clock
April Fools Day already???

I asked about that last night. I’ve been wondering too.

Otherwise still reading and restraining myself from posting my thoughts.

Cool… I’m not alone on the warp….
Anyway it’s April Fools Day in Texas!!!!!

Where the hell is Clockwatcher?? (Just fooling around)

No shoes:
Just hit me the NO shoes certainly would be inappropriate for the Blanchard Park kidnapping. I cannot imagine allowing a child to go barefoot in a public park.

Monica: Re: More to the story that we don’t know. I agree with you on this point. Have thought it for some time. Do you have any specific thoughts?

Abandoned car: Just a thought on this. I am recalling Casey left her purse and other items in the car (keys?) not sure on tat but am thinking so. I am wondering if she may have left these items so it might appear the owner driver was near by, and thus possibly less chance of the car being towed.

» Gracie34: makes sense that Cindy may have found reference to calls Kronk made earlier that she sent her search team out.

» Vicki: As for the duct tape, was placed after the drowning.
I have doubts on this because, I don’t feel she would have been able to make it stick securely,
especially to wet hair.

Re: Casey’s plan… I am feel Casey had every intention of killing her daughter, and Caylee never being found. Casey would have used the fact that her child had been kidnapped and never found as a means of sympathy. She would have used this on friends past present and future to her benefit.

Sally Says said: { Apr 1, 2010 – 12:04:52 }

vicki said: { Mar 31, 2010 – 11:03:53 }
Altho she may have privately confessed to an accident

Vicki, an accident is not a crime. If Caylee died as a result of an accident, Casey would be set free. If Casey “privately confessed to an accident” she would have told the investigators it was an accident when they gave her a chance and she wouldn’t be sitting in jail facing the death penalty. She would be out pole dancing and partying.
Also, whoever she confessed to would be telling the prosecutors rather than let an innocent person sit in jail. Casey never confessed to anything. Up until Caylee’s body was found, she claimed Caylee was alive. Now she just professes her innocence and has never budged from her The Nanny did it story.

~ ~ ~

I’m sorry, I was in too much of a hurry when I posted earlier and I left out the word “falsely” … I meant to say: Altho she may have privately [and falsely] confessed to an accident, I’ve always believed that Casey put Caylee in the pool and calmly watched her drown.

Which is not an accident by any stretch of the imagination, and I thought my post clearly stated that.

Admitting an accident to investigators when offered the opportunity to do so would not have resulted in a continuation of pole dancing and partying. It’s not a simple thing to change your story under such serious circumstances. LE was not about to say “OK, thanks for clearing that up” and close the investigation. If a person provides a story which proves false at every turn and then changes up to an accident, a lie detector test (at the very least) comes into play.

#1, Casey knew she wouldn’t pass a LDT because it wasn’t an accident and #2, Cindy’s massive ego and need to control everything wouldn’t allow her to even consider going to the prosecutors: the perfect daughter who was a perfect mother had been negligent enough to allow an accidental drowning? Not on Cindy’s watch, where she is hell-bent on protecting the facade which the Anthonys present to the outside world.

IMO, it was Cindy who decreed that they would tough it out and stay with the original ZFG scenario. Casey’s [false] confession to Cindy is what changed “it smells like there’s been a dead body in the damn car” to “it was rotten pizza”.

A toddler of that age with no ability to swim, how long would it take for them to drown or to reach the point where they will not survive without CPR? One minute, two minutes? Their instinct under water is to continue breathing, not to hold their breath. They can’t dogpaddle and rise to the surface and then sink and then rise again, etc, while calling out or making noise of some kind. A toddler who can’t swim will sink like a stone and be quiet while doing so. They might flail their arms and legs but what will that accomplish and how much noise does it make? (I hear splashing in the pool next door = yawn). Given that Casey has a bold nature, is not averse to taking risks, has skated on a variety of misdeeds and possesses deep-seated anger and hatred, I can definitely see her taking a two-minute risk in the backyard.

..i definitely believe that kc murdered caylee in an act of rage.probably due “the fight” with cindy ——–after cindy stomped off to bed , after having her hands around kc’s throat—-kc was still enraged—-and took it out on caylee.

..”take that!!!!! (cindy) —-as she, possibly, smothered , caylee.

..caylee, being almost 3, and “talking in paragraphs” as cindy has stated, may have said something “bad about mommy” ( to/from the fathers day drive to mt. dora with cindy) and then ( prompted by cindy ) repeated it again once kc got home that night–which started “the fight”.

..thus, the duct tape over caylee’s mouth—-to ShutHerUp!!!

…if kc had ONLY wanted caylee out of her life—( in a PLANNED scenario)—it would have been so simple to just drown her. ( statistically—-unfortunately—THOUSANDS drown every year in the u.s alone.)

..toss her in the pool , without her “swimmies” —if she did make it to the surface, just push her down again—–and then! call 911, sobbing hysterically—-”omg! i was getting her swimmies—she—she—must have run up the ladder—jumped in! sob sob sob”.

..she would have had it made—-no caylee—and TONS of friends/family/public sympathy.

..therefore, she didn’t “plan” the murder beforehand. ( because it WAS murder—-an “accident” could have been pre-planned, but she didn’t do that.)

………………………( i could never have a blog—what i say makes sense to ME—reading it back, hmmmmmmmm…..).

..she couldn’t admit ” the accident” scenario to LE—–b/c OF the duct tape.

..”sob! (fake tear) she drowned! i panicked! hid her in the woods!…..”

..” ok-we found her—ummmm–can you explain the duct tape over her nose and mouth?”

..”i lied—she choked in bed, and just—-just…sobsob–died!”

..”ok, we found her —can you explain the duct tape then over her nose and mouth??”

Great article with links to Baez`s newest motion filed for court monday and Nejames answer to Baez`s motion. I definitely want to watch the court hearing on monday, sure wish I could be there, I would love to see the judge rip on Baez for this garbage, or at least that is what I am hoping for

http://sprocket-trials.blogspot.com/2010/03/casey-anthony-hearing-monday.html

I think that some people are missing a very obvious flaw with the pool/drowning scenario…

Even though Caylee was a small child, a drowning is not going to be a silent event. There’s just no way that Casey would drown Caylee… in their pool… in their backyard… with neighbors within earshot… and, theoretically, within view. She would’ve been splashing, coughing and prolly screaming/crying. That would definitely get a person’s attention. And if you wanted to say that she put the duct tape on her and then put her in the pool… that might decrease the noise (the vocal sounds), but there would still be disorganized, frantic splashing. And if you wanted to take it another step and say that she had her wrists taped, too… that might decrease, or even eliminate, any splashing sounds, but then you still have the chance of being seen. How would you explain to a neighbor, why your child is duct taped and thrashing in the pool? If she was going to drown her, it would be done in the house, in the bathtub. It would allow her a lot of control over Caylee’s movement. But that still wouldn’t explain why she’d put the tape on her. If the tape was put on prior to any sort of drowning scenario, the water would have decreased the adhesion of the tape, around its borders. And if she was drowned and THEN the tape was put on, she’d have wet hair and skin (I don’t see Casey taking the time to dry her off) and that would interfere with the tape’s adhesion, as well. Logically, if she died from any sort of water/drowning event, the tape wouldn’t have been necessary.

Something I started thinking about, a few minutes ago…

What if the tape wasn’t there as much to suffocate her, as much as it was there to keep something in her mouth… or something depressed against her face? If a person attempts murder, or suicide, with a drug… or an ingested chemical… too much can make you sick, making you vomit it up. What if she tried to give her something, orally, and she vomited it up, and so she put the tape on to hold it in/keep her from vomiting it out… and she put so much tape on her that she actually died from suffocation, versus the ingested substance? Or, if she actually did make/acquire some chloroform, she could have put it on a papertowel, put it against her nose/mouth… then put the tape on to hold it in place. That would allow her to leave the room and “let nature take its course”, and then come back and check to see if she had died. If it was a papertowel or toilet paper, as her body became skeletonized, there would have been enough access to the adhesive side of the tape, where the PT/TP would’ve been against her, through an open skull, that it could have eroded away. Ever had TP in your toilet and then had to plunge it? The TP just shreds to nothing. Imagine months of exposure to the elements… it would be pretty much indetectable. And if she had something with chloroform, between her mouth/nose and the duct tape, that would allow for increased amounts of chloroform to be circulating within her car.

oops be sure to read Nejames answer to the motion

Carrie said: { Apr 1, 2010 – 06:04:19 }
I think that some people are missing a very obvious flaw with the pool/drowning scenario…

Even though Caylee was a small child, a drowning is not going to be a silent event. There’s just no way that Casey would drown Caylee… in their pool… in their backyard… with neighbors within earshot… and, theoretically, within view. She would’ve been splashing, coughing and prolly screaming/crying.
———————————————————

..drowning——–with little kids—–IS a silent event. they don’t have the capacity to splash to the surface, coughing and yelling for help. without their “swimmies”/life jackets, they simply sink to the bottom.

http://www.momsmiami.com/?a=profile&u=2&t=blog&blog_id=1762

“More children ages 1 to 4 die in South Florida every year by accidental drowning than by any other cause.”

“Parents think they will hear a scream if their child falls in the pool, but the opposite is true,” Llau said. “Drowning is the silent killer. Water fills their air passages and they can’t make a sound.”

Fran said: { Apr 1, 2010 – 06:04:35 }
…… I would love to see the judge rip on Baez for this garbage, or at least that is what I am hoping for.

..i would love to see baez up there, doing his usual ” ummmm..errrrr…” ” but, judge…” ( you would think by NOW —he would have learned to address him as “your honour”.)

..i won’t be shocked to see baez benched–and someone else arguing the motion.

…”river” , out of hospital and appologizing:

http://tinyurl.com/yad8ynb

…email to dr. lillian glass:
Dr.Glass,

“I first want to apologize for letting you down. Things got so bad and I think that because I hadn’t been sleeping for days, I finally snapped. I truly am sorry for disappointing you.”

..”.She has new legal counsel with a top of the line Miami based criminal attorney “.

..( new counsel—–who was her old counsel ?)

@Marica…Re: the unknown “X Factor” in the Anthony family…indeed there has to be
some mondo hinky well-kept secret because we don’t see enough everyday conflict
there to merit the kind of rage behind choking or killing a family member. Breaking
dishware maybe but not to justify the kind of submerged hate here. I can only think maybe there was some sort of sexual abuse of Casey that Cindy overlooked in her
state of denial. Or…maybe the Anthonys, specifically George who usually appears to
not be working, was into something illegal they were profiting from which they now
desperately don’t want known? Where does such extreme pathology come from?
I just listened again to the Tracy McLaughlin interviews and she also mentions
witnessing George attempting to choke Casey. Another theory I would consider is that
maybe Casey had some sort of nasty double life, something lowlife, like maybe
prostitution or trying to sell Caylee for child porn and somehow was influenced
by criminal scum not typical of her family or friends. And maybe the possibility
of some sort of hidden drug use, specifically something like meth or speed
because I’ve heard several reports online of people claiming that there was a
meth lab not far from Hopespring where lots of young people shopped for partying
and the way that a drug like meth or speed would influence certain characteristics
such as: 1. detachment from normal human emotions which would prevent someone
from doing something stupid like murder, 2. glamorization of aggression and
violence 3. hyper-activity and living only in the moment 4. wanting to do nothing
but party 5. narcissistic behavior detached from practical considerations or
other people. But definitely I can’t say I know. I’m certain that if this goes to trial
Casey being typical Casey has to throw some sort of big crazy hideous curve ball
that nobody sees coming. From what we’ve seen of her she couldn’t have it
any other way. I do think that whatever the secret may be it’s going to throw
G+C into hostile totally insane radical mode. Something big and crazy has to
go down to explain the missing piece. It’s just too big a rubicon to cross from
suburban princess to psycho-killer without some sort of big negative influence.
I also have to marvel at how she might have thought she was going to off
her entire family and take the house. She’s a very small person. My money would
be on any of the family members to easily fight her off or take a gun from her,
unless she had an automatic and did some sort of sucker attack really darn fast.
Most likely she’d get some gullible fall guy boyfriend to do it. It’s just too much
work and unless she’s really delusional physically the odds are against her.
If she is that delusional I could only guess it came from drugs, watching too many
glamorized violent movies and TV shows and hanging around some hardcore
people who have not surfaced for the police. I just don’t know. I’ll bet I haven’t
hit it. It’s got to be something far weirder than any of this because this is the
Anthony family. Stay tuned I guess…

I got the time fixed. Sorry about that. Must have gone through a temporal shift in the server move.

vicki said: { Apr 1, 2010 – 05:04:31 }

I meant to say: Altho she may have privately [and falsely] confessed to an accident, I’ve always believed that Casey put Caylee in the pool and calmly watched her drown.

Which is not an accident by any stretch of the imagination, and I thought my post clearly stated that.

Vicki, my point was Casey is not going to confess to anything privately or otherwise. Sociopaths only say what benefits them. It is not going to benefit Casey to “confess” that she did anything wrong except as she said “trust the wrong person” to babysit Caylee. Casey never told a soul Caylee was missing for 30 days until Cindy called the cops and she couldn’t produce Caylee. So she told the cops and Cindy and George, Zanny the Nanny took her, Caylee called me and she is fine, Caylee is alive I can feel a connection to her” up until the body was found in December 2008. Casey hasn’t talked to Cindy and George since the body was found. She would have had to “confess it was an accident” before the body was found. That wouldn’t benefit her. It benefits her to play the victim. “I trusted Zenaida and she betrayed me and ran off with my daughter and I am afraid I’ll never see her again.” Besides until the body was found, George and Cindy wanted to believe that Caylee was alive and kidnapped by someone who loved her. It benefited Casey to keep telling everyone around her that Caylee was alive because she believed if the body was never found, she could never be convicted.

Good morning Val and everybody!!!

Cindy talking to M&J… talking about pizza smell :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZvEhnzlobA&feature=player_embedded

Monica – very exacting points you make. I’ve always held a theory about a deep dark family secret – that’s why it was so e-z for Casey to say she was protecting the family with her 31 day silence. That, to me, was some sort of family code. I have some very ugly thoughts on the basis for this secrecy, but it woudl serve no good purpose to express them.

The factor that eliminates the pool as a death weapon (in my estimation) is the heavy storms over Orlando on 6/16/08. As diabolical as Casey is portrayed, she could have staged a drowning of the child on many opportunities, but yet she didn’t. I do think she was studiously careless with Caylee in public (possibly hoping for an “accident” but on the other hand (there’s that darned other hand again), it strikes me that even lazy Casey wouldn’t attempt to use the pool in a thunder & lightening storm.

no smiley face, that was supposed to be a closed quote character – no smiley faces when I discuss Caylee’s demise. please excuse.

Regarding the pool theory, I think someone had already pointed out months ago that on June 16, 2008 it was raining pretty hard that day all day long. I can’t imagine Casey out in the pouring rain in her backyard that day IMO.
Also I think the story of the neighborhood kid seeing Casey’s car parked near the woods is true and the family figured out that is where Casey dumped Caylee’s body.
Then you have the psychic and her friends suggesting that area. The Anthony’s put two and two together. I think they have justified in their minds that Caylee died due to an accident and Casey covered it up. Hence the Anthony’s are covering for Casey.

also based on that interview back in August where Cindy looks sedated and wasn’t her usual mean self, I think she made the realization that Caylee was dead. She privately knew but publicly came out and continued to insist she was alive. coverup, lies, deceit, fraud, obstruction….

IntenseinNJ said: { Mar 31, 2010 – 04:03:07 }

Another thing that sticks out in my mind is on a NG Show the week of Dec 11 2008 when NG was interviewing a reporter at the recovefry site on Suburban. The woman (KB?) don’t remember -stated that they had recovered a child’s bathing suit amongst
the remains. I’m beginning to think i’m delusional about this cuz it was never mentioned again. The reporter continued to describe further the scene and then I remember Nancy screaming WOWOWOWOWOW STOP! WHAT a child’s bathing suit was found? I have attempted to find an archived video of that show but have been unable to locate one on the NG site.

**

CNN doesn’t archive videos, but you can find all the show transcripts for NG on the website:

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/ng.html

As for the bathing suit . . . there was no bathing suit found with the remains. There were many rumors floating in those first two weeks, and the bathing suit rumor was one of them. Another rumor that proved false was that the remains were found with a pillowcase.

Here we go again… one more correspondence to KC’s docket, what’s it now?

04/01/2010 Correspondence

http://myclerk.myorangeclerk.com/CaseDetail.aspx?CaseID=6236234

Sally says, I agree with what you said about “Casey is not going to confess to anything privately or otherwise.”

I would bet my bottom dollar that George and especially Cindy are eager to confront Casey to beg her to confess to it being an accidental death rather than a murder because they have falsely convinced themselves that their princess could not have murdered their beautiful granddaughter in cold blood. But they know that Casey would go ballistic if they approach her letting on to the fact that they don’t believe her Nanny story. So these two willing participants will continue dancing to Casey’s music of lies and pretend to believe her.

It’s Baez who is keeping the Anthony’s away from visiting Casey knowing that it’s in her best interest NOT to be viewed, by the public and potential jurors, in her normal state. The defense team is desperately trying to groom her for the trial so she comes across as normal.

I’m still not sure what I think. But:

I don’t think it was an accident.
I don’t think it was a conspiracy to set Casey up.
I don’t think the pool was involved in the death of Caylee.

I think that Caylee singing the “Please don’t take my sunshine away” song is a big clue that Casey would threaten to take her away from Cindy and George if she didn’t get her way. (spoiled brat! )

I also think Casey’s “spiteful bitch” comment was *absolutely* true.

My best guess is that Caylee said something that made Casey feel the need to shut her up forever and take Cindy’s “sunshine” away.

My original thought was that after the alleged fight on June 15, Casey stormed out of the house w/ Caylee. Caylee was crying for Cindy, wanting to go home and Casey suffocated Caylee in a fit of rage to shut her up and be rid of the problem of having a toddler in tow that was ruining to her newfound party lifestyle. However, there hasn’t been any proof of the fight or of Casey leaving the house. So… IDK.

The most painful of all was to see how the Anthony turned what was suppose to be Caylee’s memorial service in to a tribute to her murderer instead. It was disgusting beyond words.

I don’t think Casey ever expected it to go as far as it has. She never planned on LE being involved. The only thing she thought about was how to hide what she did from her parents. She never thought about getting away with it from a legal standpoint, cause she never thought it would get to that point. When the police did get involved, she was convinced that she could make them believe her lies, like her parents always did. She was surprised when LE checked out everything she told them. That had never happened to her before, cause her parents never questioned anything she said or did. She thought if she made her lies sound elaborate enough, they would just believe her and let it go at that. When that did not happen, she got mad and was really pi$$ed that her lies were questioned. She thought “how dare they question what I say” Then she figured she would still be fine, cause her parents would be able to lie and get her out of everything like they always had. When that didn’t happen either, she go PO’ed big time at her parents. That I believe that is why she ignores them in court, she is mad at THEM for what has now happened to her. It is all THEIR fault, she is in jail, because they were not able to lie and cover for her like they always had before.

Joiseyjuls, I think you are absolute right in what you said in your
(Apr 1, 2010 – 10:04:27) post.

Casey believes she is in jail for one reason and one reason only and that is because Cindy called 911.

DEAR ABBY: Please help me make my life better and answer a question that has been troubling me for some time. How do men on death row get their toenails cut? Are they actually given sharp objects to do it for themselves? I can’t figure it out. — PERPLEXED IN SOUTHWEST FLORIDA

DEAR PERPLEXED: Your question is one I have pondered for some time, as well. Because men on death row are not supposed to have sharp objects, they take turns chewing each other’s toenails off. I have this on good authority — and I’m not conning you.
—————–
OKAY WHICH ONE OF YOU IS PREPLEXED IN SOUTHWEST FLORIDA???????????????/

ya know what….
if george and Cindy deny that is was an accident then they are saying that they know Casey murdered their grandchild….

LOL Christine,

I am NOT Perplexed, never gave any thought to how death row inmates took care of pedicure issues!

@Chat L: I would be very curious to hear your theories on the unknown factor,
however macabre or off the wall. You might very well be sitting on the answer!

That video with Cindy posted today is beyond absurd. I’ve seen it before but
maybe didn’t know then what I do now. She’s actually blaming the media
for Caylee’s death? Wow…even with grieving considered, that’s just plain nuts.
There had to be some sort of blackmail going on between Casey and her parents
because they first reacted normally – calling police and talking decomp in trunk,
but then suddenly shut up and reversed the story and have been clinging to it
since. It seems like more than just a desire to protect Casey. If they really
believed she was innocent they would be sure in that and not make so many
excuses and use hostility to hide the facts. And they’d be a lot more outraged
at her being imprisoned and tried than they are. I have to think like most here
that she snapped and did it in a fit of rage. But again, only a crazy person
or true psychotic would not put the brake on and stop from actual murder.
To cross that line something far more extreme has to be involved.

LOL – I’ve wondered about eyebrows. Seriously. If I were locked up for a month, I’d have one ugly unibrow. Casey’s look ok. Is she (inmates, in general) allowed tweezers, clippers, nail files, razors, etc?

My opinions re: Cindy’s behavior:

I think that first it was Cindy vs Casey. After about a month, Cindy was able to get to Casey and claim “the win”. Unfortunately, there was no prize of Caylee to be found. So the authorities were notified.

Then, the “facts” made their family look flawed. Cindy couldn’t have that. So she had to do her thing and fix it. She tried to make Casey and the family out to be the victims.

Then the money/fame took it to another level. I think Cindy has justified it in her own mind that she’s had to put up with George and Casey. She’s worked hard for years yet she is in a financial mess because of them…. then she deserves to be compensated for it.

Joiseyjuls,

I agree completely with your above post. When Lee was in the bedroom with Casey on July15 she said, “Well maybe I’m a spiteful b!tch,” No truer words were ever spoken by her. Remember she also stated that Maybe Mom should have done something a long time ago….again putting the blame on someone else right from the very beginning. Her parents taught her that she is not accountable for anything and now she’s mad as heck. It’s easy for her to turn her back on her parents and have no contact with them.

I watched the video of M&J and Cindy. Cindy’s anger is apparent and she lashes out at anyone who even questions her about Caylees “disappearance”. At about 7:56 into the video in regards to another video Cindy said, “I have seen the video, I haven’t seen blah blah blah…get it right Cindy. She is a piece of work just like her daughter.

Both parents display the ability to become physically violent – where di that originate in the marriage, do”ya ‘spose? I’d say George came into the marriage and Cindy learned to “handle” him. I’d also say George came into the marriage fiscally irresponsible and Cindy learned to “handle it” as best she could – she worked and wore the pants and he let her think she was in control. Cindy came into the marriage at age 22 from a working class family where, as the only girl, she was treated and even necknamed “Princess” and thus, she carries a certain air of entitlement. In studying Casey as much as has been revealed, I see the worst traits of both parents in her. Quite frankly, I struggle to see positives in any of their respective character makeups and I do not mean to be unkind when I say that. OK, I’ve got one: Cindy is good to her mother and her co-workers seem to have a good opinion of her, but then again, they were fed her “corn-syrup.”

Did Casey or Lee ever have after school jobs to earn their own money?

ooops, in a hurry again. I meant that I think George brought the proclivity for violence into the marriage. The other point I’d raise is how they are both such accomplished and ready to go liars. Someone called this union the perfect storm in an earlier post. I don’t know about that, but it sure is some sort of strange kismet.

Chat Lunatique said:
Did Casey or Lee ever have after school jobs to earn their own money?

..george says in his state depo that kc worked at 2 different places. anthony pizzeria, and USA dry cleaning. .

.. ” she was working both jobs because she wanted a car—that’s the only way our children could ever get money, they had to work for it”.

The car Casey was driving was Lee’s car first. he worked while still in high school and paid for the car himself. Casey was supposed to make payments to Lee for the car but he only received a couple of payments. This is in Lee’s interview with OSCO. I think Lee got the hell out of that house as soon as he could.

Chat Lunatique said:
The other point I’d raise is how they are both such accomplished and ready to go liars.

..right after george states in his depo that if ‘his children’ wanted something, they had to work for it…

Question:and what was her 1st car?
george: a 1989 toyota camry
Q.: and when did she get that?
G: right around her junior year, before her senior year. it was an old car of mine that i had given to her.
Q: you made a comment, if your kids wanted something, they had to work for it, obviously that car she didn’t.
G: well, if she wanted gas in it, she wanted insurance…..

..( they just make it up as they go along……and kc probably knew even back then that if she wanted gas——-to take it from the shed!)

Gracie34 said: { Apr 1, 2010 – 12:04:13 }

True but the momma’s boy only moved a few blocks away. lol.

Here’s a thought…re: why G+C don’t strongly urge Casey to plea bargain.
Maybe if she has something big she’s blackmailing them with,
getting her put away for life – or even executed – could end whatever
threat she has over them? Maybe the charade is not so much to defend Casey
as to act foolishly to assure she gets more serious consequences?
Either consciously or unconsciously…

Lee Anthony had to pay for his own car…..
George and Cindy made the downpayment and gave him the payment book for his 16th birthday……
Lee was always the backseat baby…….
Cindy stated that they paid all insurance on Casey’s car ….. because Caylee was in it…… that made me sick…….

Carrie said: { Apr 1, 2010 – 06:04:19 }
I think that some people are missing a very obvious flaw with the pool/drowning scenario…

Even though Caylee was a small child, a drowning is not going to be a silent event. There’s just no way that Casey would drown Caylee… in their pool… in their backyard… with neighbors within earshot… and, theoretically, within view. She would’ve been splashing, coughing and prolly screaming/crying.

———

» ellejay said: { Apr 1, 2010 – 07:04:45 }

..drowning——–with little kids—–IS a silent event. they don’t have the capacity to splash to the surface, coughing and yelling for help. without their “swimmies”/life jackets, they simply sink to the bottom.

———

Not exactly true.

Babies are born with the fight-or-flight reflex, but it’s in the form of the “Moro Reflex”. If you clap your hands, move them quickly, or if something else startling occurs, the baby will flail its arms, arch its back, and then cry. That is the most predominant reflex the child will have at birth. As they get older, the Moro Reflex dissipates, it will be replaced with a wider variety of “reflexes”… such as the full-fledged fight-or-flight… fear paralysis… conscious response (appropriate and deliberate response to stimuli… sunshine’s bright?, cover your eyes… loud noise, cover your ears… take a bite of hot food, spit it out… a baby or young toddler just acknowldeges the simuli, but doesn’t know how to correct/stop it), etc… In a very young toddler, these “reflexes” can lack organization, and the “reflex” that they respond with, may not be the “appropriate” response for the situation. As the child matures and develops, these responses will become more organized. When a child is edging out of toddlerhood, their reactions are more “mature” and situation-appropriate.

In a baby, or a young toddler, they are going to have an automatic reflex to hold their breath in water… and they will likely exhibit fear paralysis. In a fear paralysis respond, the hearbeat will actually slow down, lessening the body’s needs for oxygen. This fear paralysis is actually seen at birth in the “fetal diving response”, where their heart slows and they are extremely passive, in order to go through the birthing process. Imagine an adult trying to be born! LOL… they’d be clawing their way out, whereas, a baby becomes very still and their system slows. Alot of women will hear their doctor/nurse refer to a “decel” as the child is moments away from birth. This is part of that “fetal diving response”.

In an older toddler, like Caylee, she would have been to the point that her neuro/cognitive development would have been advanced enough to trigger an active fight-or-flight event. She was too old for her to have had fear paralysis to be the first go-to reaction. She would’ve probably had the breath-holding instinct, but since fight-or-flight would have increased her heartrate, instead of dropping it, in the case of fear paralysis, her body would have been demanding oxygen. And with the instinct to NOT breathe, but craving oxygen, her body would’ve responded with vocal cords spasms, thus entensifying the whole event, making her fight for air even harder. Within a short matter of time, the lack of oxygen would have started to render her unconscious… her heart rate would’ve slowed (body response to preserve blood/oxygen to vital organs)… her vocal cords would’ve relaxed… and then the water would enter the airway. A lot of kids that die from drowning don’t die from tons of water in the lungs, it’s mostly from lack of oxygen, and then as the child becomes unconsious, water enters the lungs/airway passively

So, with Caylee’s age, a drowning wouldn’t have been a silent event. If you held a baby… or an 18mo old… and maybe even a 24mo old… over the edge of a 10-story building, the child would have little reaction, nor scope of the gravity of the situation. A child that was less than 6wks away from her 3rd birthday WOULD understand and would not just wait for the person holding them, to protect them… she would go to means to protect herself, which would be a physical response… clawing her way up the person’s arms, screaming, etc…

And in addition to the scientific/developmental portion above, I have also witnessed two children in a potential drowning situation.

When my brother had just turned 3 (he was between 36 and 38mos), and we were on vacation, he had been standing on the edge of the pool and jumping it. For some reason, he got out and walked over to the other side of the pool… not realizing it was way over his head, versus the 3ft he had been jumping in, despite adults close-by. Nobody saw him walk to the other side, and only when he jumped in, did anyone see. He jumped in, and when he didn’t feel his feet hit the bottom, allowing him to push of and surface again, he started struggling. Horribly. He was splashing, coughing and screaming. That’s been almost 28yrs ago, and I remember it vividly. And was just a matter of weeks older, than Caylee.

The second event I witnessed was with my own daughter, when she was 2yrs 3mos old. We were on vacation and my son had just learned to swim. Of course, she had to be like her big brother, so she wanted her floaties off. We took them off of her and somebody was hands-on with her constantly. My son was jumping in off the side, and my daughter wanted to jump in, too… so he’d go to the 5ft and she’d jump in to us, in the 3ft. She had to take a pee-pee break and a family member took her to pee… and when they got back inside the pool area, she ran right to the side and jumped in, with no warning. In 5ft of water. She was 8mos younger than Caylee, and she immediately started thrashing around and splashing. I was over to her in 3-4 seconds, and she was totally fine, albeit quite scared, but it was a definite eye-opener to how scary drowning could be.

So, for not one second, do I believe that if Caylee had been put in that swimming pool… duct tape, or not… clothes or not… no matter what circumstances (outside of heavy sedation) would she have just floated in the water, and not made any attempt to keep herself above water, causing a notable amount of noise and visual attention.

Oh Monica! Sigmund Freud would have a field day with that and I think you could be right, too!

Response to Motion;

http://www.wftv.com/pdf/22824888/detail.html

Does anyone else just want to give NeJame a hug, or a slap on the butt for you guys.

I got my Hinky mug today. That was quick!! And it looks great!

http://myclerk.myorangeclerk.com/CaseDetail.aspx?CaseID=6236234

03/31/2010 Correspondence
From Wineinger To Judge Rec’d From Judge
03/31/2010 Correspondence
from Dolores McGuire to Judge
04/01/2010 Correspondence

More letters to judge Stan…

CarrieK said: { Apr 1, 2010 – 04:04:53 }

Me, too! I just opened my Hinky mug, which is just waiting for a fresh cup of joe, AND … now I have all this wonderful bubble-wrap to play with!

Kudos to Cafe Express, Val. That was really fast even outside the US. You picked a great vendor.

to Mark Nejame! s-c-a-t-h-i-n-g! The 3/10/10 motion was a little over the top for court decorum, but every once in a while it HAS to be done and this was one of those times. Legal Professionalism demands courtesy but as with all things in this case, there is always a step outside the “norm” and the Defense (ok, namely JB) has just been asking for opposition in the form of whup-ass! Go Mark, Go TES, Go…

Liz,
I got an error message…could you repost that link please?

I’m really curious as to what is in the letters to Judge Strickland. Do any of you think they will become public knowledge? Another question, how do I get my very own Hinky mug??

Carrie, thank you for explaining what would happen when a child drowns. I didn’t think that a child her age would just float to the bottom of a pool. A pool accident is possible but I believe that Casey murdered her out of anger.

Questions, questions.

On the Tim Miller OCSO Interview thread some are speculating that Casey may be portrayed as abused either as part of the main trial or in the mitigation phase. This has me wondering about some new legal questions.

1. How would they even get it into evidence if Casey doesn’t testify?
2. How could they prove any allegations of abuse? Even if someone like Ricardo or Jesse was cross-examined about allegations wouldn’t it be hearsay?
3. Do the hearsay rules apply during the mitigation phase or is there a bit more leniency in what is allowed?
4. Can statements in the mitigation phase be challenged? Can you cross examine a character witness or a witness alleging abuse that wasn’t brought up in the trial before sentencing?
5. If they do go with SODDI and Casey is found guilty, is it common to switch strides during mitigation and go with a different tactic like an emotionally-battered child defense?
6. I’ve never watched a criminal case before so I don’t know if it is normal to drop pretenses during mitigation and go for ‘she did it because…’ If that is normal how does that effect future appeals? It is almost like an admission, yet they’ll still volley later for an appeal based on trial errors, I guess?

I can’t fathom how they could effectively mount an ‘abused child’ defense for Casey short of her testifying during the trial itself, which isn’t likely to happen.

I can see I need to research the mitigation phase a lot more. Any good insight or links would be appreciated. How does this play out during trial and in appeals?

Thanks.

» ellejay said: { Apr 1, 2010 – 07:04:45 }

..drowning——–with little kids—–IS a silent event. they don’t have the capacity to splash to the surface, coughing and yelling for help. without their “swimmies”/life jackets, they simply sink to the bottom.

Ellejay, I agree, having been a medic and worked numerous drownings. The words, “I never heard anything!” “There wasn’t a sound!” became my own nightmare when my own two year old fell into our pool, in spite of every precaution (the pool service guy left the safety gate unlocked). An older child and I had to break through child proof locks, that locked with a key, a sliding glass door and screen to get to him, and when we did he was — to put it bluntly — dead.

He’d not made a sound. We would have heard him, as the bay window that looks out toward the pool isn’t but 10 feet away, and the windows were open. I was in that room and heard nothing.

Our saving grace was that the water was cold and I was a medic, though it was, by far, the worst CPR I have ever done, and I had to work him for more than 20 minutes. He’s with us today, I am beyond grateful to say, and he’s okay. So many aren’t.

From a whole lot of first hand experience I can tell you, then, that drowning among young children is a silent killer.

Willow

PS… my son was just a few months shy of 3.

» willow said: { Apr 1, 2010 – 09:04:06 }

PS… my son was just a few months shy of 3.

————

I think that when kids are in that 2-3yr old range, there is some gray area, in terms of their development, and what type of response they have to the act of drowning.

Children that are anywhere from a few months old, to 2ish, are more prone to have a silent drowning because their fight-or-flight response is not mature. At that age, their response is more biological. The body starts conserving oxygen, the heard slows, and circulation changes what it considers priority, in order to protect the brain and heart. And that biological process is aided by lack of movement.

From around the age of 2, and up, their response will be more of a “classic” fight-or-flight, and will be more instinctive…with a drive to get that oxygen, rather than the body adjusting for the lack thereof.

The younger group will typically have the biological response… And the older group will typically have the instinctive response. But as with pretty much every other situation in life, there are exceptions to the rules, and some kids will respond in a way that’s opposite of what you’d expect based on their age-group/developmental level. Abuse can alter normal-for-age response. Chronic/Acute health situations can alter the normal-for-age response, as well. And then there are outside forces that can alter their response, too. Like you had mentioned, the cold water worked in your son’s favor. But not only did the lower temp help protect him, it may have played a huge part in how your son responded to the situation. Cold water can, alone, cause silent drownings, simply because of how the body responds to low temperatures. Hypothermia = slow all body responses, including movement…vocalization…and the cough/gag reflex. Those lower temps have the potential to overide the normal fight-or-flight response, and induce a much calmer, biologically-prompted response.

Had Casey actually drowned Caylee, I would venture to say that she may have been more prone to have a silent drowning, just because she had such a limited lifestyle. Not diminishing her, or speaking ill of her, but I doubt Caylee was meeting all her developmental milestones…and may have been behind. Casey obviously did little to give her stimulating surroundings. The less Caylee did, or said, the better for Casey. So, I’d say that Caylee would have had more of an infantile, biological response, and wouldn’t have fought much, just because she was used to poor situations and, I’m sure, developed a defense mechanism that blocked things out, rather than to try and escape.

I hope that makes sense.

» willow said: { Apr 1, 2010 – 08:04:52 }

..thank you for sharing that. i’m VERY happy to hear that your son survived.

» jrube said: { Apr 1, 2010 – 08:04:10 }
I’m really curious as to what is in the letters to Judge Strickland. Do any of you think they will become public knowledge? Another question, how do I get my very own Hinky mug??

..there’s a hinky gear——hinky store link on the right hand side of the page.

..and yes, i believe these new letters to judgeS will become public——-the rest have.

» Carrie said: { Apr 1, 2010 – 10:04:08 }
(Snip) Had Casey actually drowned Caylee, I would venture to say that she may have been more prone to have a silent drowning, just because she had such a limited lifestyle. Not diminishing her, or speaking ill of her, but I doubt Caylee was meeting all her developmental milestones…and may have been behind. Casey obviously did little to give her stimulating surroundings. The less Caylee did, or said, the better for Casey. So, I’d say that Caylee would have had more of an infantile, biological response, and wouldn’t have fought much, just because she was used to poor situations and, I’m sure, developed a defense mechanism that blocked things out, rather than to try and escape

I agree! I was raised in FL and both of my kids were born here. They were both swimming before the age of 2. No arm floats or life vests. They initially swam only underwater to the sides of the pool but by themselves. The video of the A’s with Caylee in the pool always set my hinky off. The pool video looks as if Caylee was very young in her short life. If they were devoted caretakers to Caylee as they say, she would be swimming. It takes commitment on the part of the adult but young children that enjoy the water are easy to teach and want to please. I have a hard time with an accidental drowning as cause of death.
What does bother me is what the A’s portray as involvement in Caylee’s young life. Looking at the pictures, most of those were when she was much younger, in comparison to known dates of RM in the Globe. After typing this I get so mad about the money paid for the pictures to Casey and the A’s.
Tim Miller will be put through the ringer I am afraid by the defense. Including the e-mail from Helen (I think that’s her name) regarding the search on Suburban. He is in my prayers to stay strong seeking Justice for Caylee.

Willow I am glad your son made it. It must have been horrific!

PotatoHead said: { Apr 1, 2010 – 08:04:57 }

My thought was that Casey would admit guilt by either testifying or by plea. Nothing second hand. The defense would put on a fierce argument as to her victimhood as a horrifically emotionally abused person throughout her life. She’d have speak on her own behalf for the abuse excuse to work… ???

That’s my thinking on it. Perhaps it can’t be done as I imagine.

About changing horses mid-stream during mitigation though… I do think I remember cases where the defense argued vigorously during the trial as to their client’s innocence and then as soon as they’re convicted they turn 180 degrees and throw out every mitigation factor in the book. It’s bizarre but I’m sure it happens. And sometimes there is mercy.

willow said: { Apr 1, 2010 – 08:04:52 }

Willow, I’m so very sorry that you’ve had firsthand experience with infants drowning; and so glad that your Son is fine.

Your posts gave me chills. Can’t even imagine the fear you faced giving your own wee babe CPR. Do you ever wonder if it was just meant to be that you became a medic? This will be that Mom moment that you relive your entire life.

Thank you for sharing your own terrifying experience with us. You’re a real Mom.

Unlike Casey.

Accidents do happen. And when they do loving moms rush to do everything in their power to save the people who own their hearts. Like you did.

jennyb said: { Apr 2, 2010 – 12:04:21 }

I’m still hoping for a plea. and more optimistic now that we have a real lawyer leading the charge.

Yet, I’m still not at all convinced that better lawyering will get through to her. I can certainly see Cheney Mason having a CTJ moment with Casey in which he’d let her know that they’ll play this out as long as they can, then must plea. But, even the best advice in the world can’t force her to agree to a plea that requires allocution.

She’d likely play agreeable and go along with it right up until she had to confess and provide details; details which I am certain the State will verify, else no deal. I just can’t see Casey ever admitting truthfully to any guilt as she has too much invested in gaming the system, her folks and society. She is a far bigger celebrity in jail than she would ever be if acquitted.

What is she going to say?

“I wish I had have been a better .”

It isn’t like the check fraud trial where she can shed a few tears, offer up a fake apology and take time served. She’ll need to cast blame. She’ll trade-off her freedom to be a spiteful b*tch. I just cannot see her admitting guilt or testifying, unless she commits felony by statement to use the opportunity to strike out at her folks.

Which leads us right back around in the circle of ourobouros, swallowing her own tail.

You offered up informative insight on the mitigation phase. One further question: if she doesn’t plead guilty and she doesn’t testify during the trial, is she able to speak out during the sentencing/mitigation phase?

That might be when we see the performance of her life to date.

Quoting own post for clarity.

PotatoHead said: { Apr 2, 2010 – 01:04:10 }
“What is she going to say?” lost some detail in html translation. It should have read ‘What is she going to say? “I wish I’d been a better… (insert Friend/Mom or any other term here.)”

It is an entirely different ball game with the DP charges which are more reliant upon circumstantial evidence than direct evidence.

On the fraud charges they had direct evidence. Casey on tape passing checks at the stores and the bank. Casey’s own handwriting on the checks. Casey’s ID used. Plus, there were indications even before the final check fraud hearing that Judge Strickland was inclined to lean towards time served on the most weighty charges and adjudicate on the remaining charges.

It caused Casey no pain or damage to utter her scripted remorse publicly because she already knew this was the plea deal. It was a moment that the Defense worked to display Casey as a remorse-ridden being. A convicted felon, but a sorrowful convicted felon.

The fact that she is now a convicted felon got far less press and genuine legal analysis than her eye-poking apology did.

I’d love nothing more than to see Casey agree to step up, offer a truthful confession and finally offer up some shred of dignity and decency, but my instinct (guts) lead me to lean towards yet another bombshell during the trial or mitigation. She won’t plea or testify, but it is my belief that she will come out with ire, resentment and blame firing on full auto during mitigation is she is allowed.

Game on – after the fact. And she’ll pull the rug out from under her defense team along the way.

» PotatoHead said: { Apr 2, 2010 – 01:04:10 }

I can certainly see Cheney Mason having a CTJ moment with Casey.

…ok, what’s a CTJ moment ?

CTJ = Come to Jesus

Just a guess…a Come To Jesus moments?

ellejay said: { Apr 2, 2010 – 02:04:22 }

At the risk of sounding flippant and offending anyone… which is not my intent:

A CTJ moment is a ‘Come To Jesus’ moment.

Not affirming or denying any religion at all. It is simply a colloquialism I really should drop from my speech and posts.

To me a CTJ moment translates as that moment is when a person is educated in such a way as to remind them of their humanity. “Step up and take responsibility, for you will be judged. Come to your preferred Deity now or face Karma later.”

(In this life or another.)

CTJ has nothing at all to do with religion, and everything to do with being provided with clear facts. Bad reference all around.

Maybe, ‘Day of Reckoning With Your Defense Team,’ would be better going forward?

Questions:
Does anyone know anything about the state of the clothes found with Caylee’s remains? Where were the clothes found in relationship to the body? Any sign of animal activity? Were any of the bones found within the clothing? Does anyone know of any references to other cases where clothing was found with remains and what the condition might be?

On a different note regarding the pool theory, its interesting to know that, being as where we have a case where both chloroform and a swimming pool are present in some manner and plausibly connected with Caylee’s death, chloroform can be produced by using pool shock as an ingredient. This handy bit of information can be found on one of the sites from the google searches: sci-spot.com

Hi, everyone,

Val suggested I put this information in this miscellaneous thread…..

Last week I responded to a commenter that I would try to go by the
Anthony’s home to see if there was evidence of any remodeling. I also
suggested that if they were remodeling they should have a permitting
posting display board in their yard, per code enforcement
requirements for Orange County. Well, I just went out there and saw
no indication of any work going on and no permit boards. Moreover,
the place looks terrible. It almost looks as if noone is living
there, very dead yard, etc.

I drove by the dump site too and the area once again has standing
water. It isn’t deep, probably about 6 inches. But what is evident
is that with more rain, that would be standing in water well over a
foot Sad place there.

Regarding my comment about the dead yard at the A’s house……actually many/most yards were hit hard by our freezing winter. Tropical plants don’t take kindly to several nights below 40 degrees, and we had plenty.

» PotatoHead said: { Apr 2, 2010 – 12:04:05 }

Do you ever wonder if it was just meant to be that you became a medic? This will be that Mom moment that you relive your entire life.

Oh yeah, PotatoHead. Taking care of people, in all sorts of situations is pretty much all I know how to do, well, having done so throughout my lifetime, and still.

I believe that when you place your life in the hands of God, you’d best prepared for how He prepares you for the life He knows you’re going to lead, and what hard issues you’re going to have to deal with, and all so that you know what to do to help someone else when they are where you’ve been.

I’m sorry to be long in writing again, but I just can’t say enough about the wonder of God so clearly presented in such things as: after our mother died of cancer, which left us orphaned, we (the three of us, of whom I am the oldest) became the first foster children of a wonderful couple who made room for us among their own three children. We weren’t able to remain with them because (and this is in the court record) though they would have adopted us all, the judge who presided decided and to quote, regarding me,

“It’s high time this young lady (I was 15) was freed from the lifetime of responsibility she’s endured (by the grace of God) in an attempt to salvage what is left of her youth.”

What he didn’t understand was, taking care of my younger brother and sister, and our mother through her battle with cancer, was all I knew how to do, it was the whole purpose of my life, and so when he separated us, in attempt to free me, he actually shattered me, leaving me floundering for meaning and purpose.

To make a long story short, I ended up living with our father who had abandoned us when I was 4. He was pretty much “made” to assume the responsibility he’d always managed to shirk, and he resented it terribly, as he had gone on to start a second family.

At that point it was only my faith that got me through the many abuses. It was my faith that found me walking along a river bank and looking to God for some sense of things when I happened upon (emphasis here) a crippled children’s home, and for whatever reason I went inside. I found my new purpose there in taking care of the children as often as I could get away from home, and indeed I so loved them all.

So here I am now so many years later with Stephen, my own disabled child, who God so well prepared me for the day I found the home by the river. I look upon Stephen as a gift God gave to me for the love I gave to those long ago.

I’ll even go further in saying that the family who took us in went on after us to take in close to 200 foster children. 200 children whose lives were changed and for the better, and all because once there was us, and for such things as that there isn’t a single thing that I would change, that was about my life, and I thank God for it all, as well as I trust Him with all that is, no matter what is.

Willow

P.S.

He never said there’d always be sunshine.

He never said there’d be no rain.

He only promised a heart full of singing…

At the very things that once caused pain.

Laura Buchanan’s statement:

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/32326505/Casey-Anthony-Defense-team-Laura-Buchanan-signed-statement

Since there is so much time until the trial arrives, it would be interesting to take all the components of the garbage in the trunk, the frozen meals and pizza, and allow it rot under the same conditions and heat, this summer. If Dr Lee insists that there was meat in the trunk, it would be interesting to see how this all ends up smelling. I know that another test was done by media, but only on the pizza. Hopefully the real death trunk is well sealed and emits the same foul odor by next year. I would be curious to see what the air test might yield as well, aside from the good old olfactory comparison.

» Kerflunkled said: { Apr 2, 2010 – 03:04:36 }

On a different note regarding the pool theory, its interesting to know that, being as where we have a case where both chloroform and a swimming pool are present in some manner and plausibly connected with Caylee’s death, chloroform can be produced by using pool shock as an ingredient. This handy bit of information can be found on one of the sites from the google searches: sci-spot.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This information made me write on another blog about the possibility of Casey adding some pool chemicals into the bags containing Caylee’s remains in an attempt to mask the odor and speed up the decomp of the body. But, I rejected my own theory when I thought maybe such chemicals leaking into the car trunk would bleach the rug in the trunk. But, I am not familiar with these chemicals and don’t know if this is true or not. I was also interested that LE removed pool chemicals as potential evidence…and I am almost certain they did this immediately after the body was found.

PS: Could she have added chemicals to the bags on her last visit to the house and after she might have fixed the leaking problem…so that no chemicals spilled into the trunk before she disposed of the body? Of course, I think adding chemicals like this might have discouraged any animal activity because the animals would have avoided any caustic chemicals and I wound think insects would have, too. Maybe LE took the chemicals to see if they were used in the process of killing Caylee. Oh God…it isn’t good for the soul to think too deeply into this case. All the speculations are just too horrible to imagine.

Wow Willow. What a story! I’m glad that life turned out ok for you after all you’ve been through. The Lord certainly does work in mysterious ways. A perfect example is how He prepared you for your adult life. Good luck to you and a Happy and Blessed Easter!

@Kerfunkeled, you can find photo’s of the clothing found with poor little Caylee’s remains in the discovery. It is very disturbing. The tshirt had all but disintegrated but the letters spelling out “Big trouble comes in small packages” were found. hEr little shorts are horribly stained and have holes (animal activity?) There are photo’s of her Winnie the Pooh blanket as well along with the laundry basket.

PotatoHead said: { Apr 2, 2010 – 01:04:10 }
“I wish I’d been a better… (insert Friend/Mom or any other term here.)”

I knew that Tater! lol.

Skipping the pesky details of the legalities and how a court works (as I am wont to do) I can overall see an imaginative and canny attorney twisting this case into a *feel sorry for Casey fest*. Either during the trial or in mitigation. After thinking about it I don’t think the state would offer a plea unless, as you say, Casey develops some decent credibility. Which I really don’t think she can. Not enough to satisfy.

Heck, all they have to do is play Cindy’s voicemail to Tim Miller (and was it Sergeant Allen?) about 50 times to the jury and say… “Think of a young girl being subjected to this type of harangue every day of her life, magnified in intensity by 1000.” The jury would probably let Casey walk out of the courtroom a free woman and put Cindy away for life. Just kidding.

Anyhoo… I’ve exhausted my thoughts on this theory and I don’t know what it would take for the defense to actually do this, or when, or how… but to me it’s her only chance. And Cindy has given them plenty of material. Just think if she’d kept her mouth shut and really acted like a grieving grandma. The jury would be completely offended by this tactic, so much that it would completely backfire. As it stands now though, it’s a reasonable defense because Cindy has shown the world what type of person she is. And it ain’t good.

Should be an interesting trial that’s for sure!

btw, there’s nothing offensive about the phrase CTJ moment. Nada.

I don’t think Mason will have a CJM with Casey. On the contrary, we saw evidence of his promises to her that he would walk out with her arm and arm. I don’t think his conversations with her will change. His strategy, as Sheaffer has pointed out will be to tear down and discredit the prosecution’s witnesses. He has a lot of experience/success doing that. And, frankly as I have said repeatedly, for the first time in following this case from the beginning, I am afraid for the prosecution of this case. I am clinging to the hope that there is so much evidence against her that even Mr. Mason doesn’t have that many fingers. This hearing on Monday will be interesting. It will pit Mr. Nejame against Mr. Mason. I am also hopeful that, although we have been told the letters Casey wrote do not contain a confession, they do contain damning evidence again her. If nothing else, it certainly tells us how stupid she really is!

Jennyb, Just because Casey has been subjected to Cindy’s wrath, or whatever term you want to use for Cindy’s behavior, all of her life doesn’t in turn mean that the jury would be sympathetic to Casey There is a lot of hate to go around when it comes to those two.

Linda Pope said: { Apr 2, 2010 – 11:04:19 }

For all of my speculating about the abuse excuse not for ONE MOMENT do I fear for the prosecution. Casey will go down. It’s just a matter of how much time she does, and I doubt it will be less than LWOP unless the defense puts on the mother of all abuse shows.

If by some crazy chance there is a hung jury the state will try Casey Anthony again and again and again. That’s how determined I think they are to see justice in this case.

And then I hope they nail George, Cindy and Lee to the wall. I’d love to see them wriggling on pins like the insects they are. Every last one of them.

Although Cindy may be a bully and a liar to others when covering up for Casey, I don’t see any evidence of past abuse in Cindy’s child rearing so I doubt that will ever come in to play. Contrary to being abusive, I see Cindy as overly permissive and George as a father with no backbone, but none of that gives us a clear insight as to why Casey turned out the way she did. I believe that Cindy was most likely raising Caylee in much the same way she raised Casey, however, each child is different thus they respond differently to their upbringing. We have to remember that experts still do not know if sociopaths are a product of nature, nurture or a little bit of both. Everybody has opinions on sociopaths but nothing has been proven, however, at this time we do know that there is no therapy, medication or cure for an antisocial personality. So, there was never any hope for Casey to be anything other than who she is.

I dislike Cindy for all her lies, deceit and for turning her back on her granddaughter in favor of her murderer. But, I think we have to be fair in remembering that Cindy once loved Caylee dearly and would have never harmed her and CASEY IS THE MURDERER.

Personally, I am hoping to see Casey get the death penalty for the horrible crime she committed on an innocent child. Cindy and George may then be free of the hold that Casey has on them and one day come to the realization that their daughter was indeed a murderer.

..concerning laura buchanan, who gives an adress of new jersey on her stmt., but told joe jordan she was LE from kentucky, it turns out she “knows” cindy and george.

..WSer TWA found her message on a site containing respects to caylee:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=97090&page=6 ( #131 )

“October 20, 2008 by Laura Buchanan:

There could never be two people who have loved you more than your Grandparents.. I wish nothing more than for you to come home.. Your beautiful face is on my mind every night.. As I lay and pray for your safe return. Cindy and George are wonderful people if only others could see that!! I know them very well and you could not ask for better Grandparents.. We love you all”

OMG- I just subjected myself to watching GA’s deposition again.. He has got to be the most arrogant, haughty, 12 yr old acting person I have ever seen (did I mention smug) .I just want to pop him in his mouth.

Off to take a blood pressure pill lol

Arkie3, I agree with you regarding GA’s deposition. I vividly remember George getting angry when he was asked about Caylee’s remains and he said something like “Don’t you ever refer to my granddaughter in that way.” I bet it was difficult for the attorney to refraind from saying ‘Hey, all I did was refer to Caylee’s remains, but it was your evil, sociopath, princess of a daughter who murdered Caylee in cold blood and dumped her like garbage in the woods to decompose to skeletal remains. So buddy focus your anger on the devil herself and not me.’

I couldn’t believe it when the mailman delivered my mug and journal today! I just ordered it a few nights ago and the order is here already. Love the mug and journal. Val..you picked a winner when you chose Cafe Press to host your store.

Carol
Orlando, FL

I can’t envision how the D could introduce Casey’s childhood encounters unless she testifies. There do not appear to be anyone who can speak to such issues as a direct witness.

..going through supplemental docs., it’s “odd” ( or not , since it’s joy wray ) that for someone so paranoid that she’s being followed etc——that on the day she’s to go meet with sgt. allen, she send a message to ‘marinade dave’ asking him to contact wesh 2 news to let him know about it.

.”.hey dave, call me, the meeting is monday @ 10:30 with sgt.A and my lawyer——they took a warrant for my comp. ( call bob @ wesh 2 news, no one else.) p.s.call me.”

..i also found (team leader) helen’s email ( sept.4 2008) to tim miller VERY strange:

..”hey tim, i don’t care about the drama——but if that area is not ruled out, and caylee is found there one day—-that would be f–cked up……………i don’t know why you have searchers, if you don’t check out the ones that are credible…………….i’ve never thought of the searches as vacation——–getting laid or how drunk i can get…….call damnit….helen.”

http://media2.myfoxorlando.com/documents/032310-anthony1.pdf

…joy……….page 133 helen……….page 69

Arkie3 said: { Apr 2, 2010 – 02:04:40 }
OMG- I just subjected myself to watching GA’s deposition again.. He has got to be the most arrogant, haughty, 12 yr old acting person I have ever seen (did I mention smug) .I just want to pop him in his mouth.

………….if george had jutted his chin much farther “up in the air”——-his neck would have snapped.

Hi Val, I received my mouse pad and travel mug today! I love them ! They are vey high quality…very impressed. Thank you very much for all your dedication and hard work.You’re my fav.

Mrs C Hop said: { Apr 2, 2010 – 06:04:57 }
*Groan* i’ll be back after blogdom is done jumping all over this chicSorry but i can support these group efforts on trashing people No one can KNOW what her motives were/are…Now do i believe she is totally credible and in it for all the right reasons (justice for Caylee) ? NopeBut there IS a reason she has been interviewed multiple time by LE, i wonder what Exactly they are investigating

CHOP
I questioned, I hope, on both sides…I mentioned she may have info, or not. I tried to be fair. Maybe I am not. I am practiced in tough questions. I tried to explain that my intent wasn’t to demean or condemn, but rather to know the truth. If I crossed that line in bias, let me know. My quest for knowledge can be fierce, at times. I don’t always intend to pull others to my thought or point of view. Sometimes I am clarifying what my own thoughts are. Don’t be pissed that I posted this Val. (since you closed the thread) Because I participated a great deal in today’s conversation, I felt that I was at least partly responsible for it’s tone. Melissa was likely more upset with me than you. Apologies.

..”hey tim, i don’t care about the drama——but if that area is not ruled out, and caylee is found there one day—-that would be f–cked up……………i don’t know why you have searchers, if you don’t check out the ones that are credible…………….i’ve never thought of the searches as vacation——–getting laid or how drunk i can get…….call damnit….helen.”

http://media2.myfoxorlando.com/documents/032310-anthony1.pdf

…joy……….page 133 helen……….page 69

Interesting Ellejay. Wow. That’s pretty detailed evidence of people being suspicious of where Caylee’s remains were likely dumped if she was in fact talking about the dump site. It sounds like alot of people had suspicions about that area. Of course Tim Miller had already publically announced that he had chosen to wait until the water subsided before continuing with the search.

Nothing to apologize for, WSH.

I find it hard to believe how people who are involved in this case for whatever reason think a parade will be planned and that no one will question anything. I have been reading here for a long time and am appreciative of the information and questions asked. How else could this blog be called the Hinky Meter?

Keep it up Val!

» WSH said: { Apr 2, 2010 – 08:04:43 }
I tried to explain that my intent wasn’t to demean or condemn, but rather to know the truth.

That was everyones objective WSH, to get to the truth, unfortunately that in itself was the problem!

You did nothing wrong IMO.

So now I am going to move on to the Helen Davis e-mail to Tim Miller.

Helen was responsible for a search team that was in the area (not exactly) where Caylee’s bones were found. She thought that the entire area should have been searched and requested that Tim take a look at it Tim got busy in something else and did not make it to that particular site (according to Tim). I think that is what caused the e-mail.

Ellejay- I find your comment interesting that Laura Buchanan says she “knows C&Gwell and they are wonderful people”. Things that make you go Hmmmmm

Val,

Is there an area on the blog for just chatting or do you prefer that everyone just stick to the blogs posted? I am just curious.

Things that make you go Hmmmmmmmmm:

Lee Anthony telling Tony Lazzaro and OSCO his sister is a liar and then stating in the civil case deposition he believes everything his sister tells him.

Asking his sister during jailhouse visitation “Is this like last time?”

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=7374.msg1104087#new

Would someone please take a look at this and give some thought as to whether or not this Call for Service , from a company called Tiburon. Could this be a HOA security Company for the Anthony neighborhood?

Here you go Gracie,

http://www.tiburoninc.com/

Up until now, there hasn’t been one, but I made one because you asked.

http://www.thehinkymeter.com/?p=2168

Wow Gracie; that is some log there. I wonder what the rescue means on Feb5, 04. Interesting that so many calls were filtered through them to the police.

Well that was quite the roller-coaster ride! Just caught up on the Melissa article comments.

FWIW, I expect we’ll read more about Bekki Sowerby soon.

Thanks for the help in reviewing. Just wanted to make sure I wasn’t seeing things. Did you notice the calls about “Verbal”. Very interesting. I wonder if they will be asked about this at trial?

» gracie34 said: { Apr 2, 2010 – 10:04:36 }
Thanks for the help in reviewing. Just wanted to make sure I wasn’t seeing things. Did you notice the calls about “Verbal”. Very interesting. I wonder if they will be asked about this at trial?

Maybe it will be used to show how much turmoil there was in that house. I wonder if Val or any of the other wonderful sleuthers can figure out what was going on during those calls.

For example; 2/5/04 GA left CA (only an example)

» MLR said: { Apr 2, 2010 – 10:04:05 } For example; 2/5/04 GA left CA (only an example)

I forgot they were seperated in 05.but 2 calls on 4/21/2005 and then again 4/30/2005 and then 5/29/2005. Possibly Cindy & George but wonder if it could have been Cindy & Casey. Cindy would have been under tremdous stress then. She was paying all of the bills.

6/24/08 BURGR-Gas Cans I am assuming.

I wonder about the one made Aug 9,08…hmmmm

Aug 9/08 could be protesters, by then it was getting crazy there.

RE: Laura Buchanan – friend of the Anthonys – working for Defense – Kentucky law enforcement

In the last doc dump, Laura’s form says she has an address in Kentucky, and is employed by “Dept Fish” (and Game?). This would be law enforcement. I think she wanted Joe J. to think she was with a police dept or Sheriff’s Office though.

Joe J. said in his interview that he had looked up Laura B. and found about 10 pages on the internet about her, and that she was a friend of the Anthonys! Joe said he would get the info he found on Laura and give it to LE.

PDF: Documents Part 1
http://media2.myfoxorlando.com/docum…0-anthony1.pdf
282 pages
page 217 – Laura Buchanan search form signed 8/3/08 – “Employed by Dept Fish” – address in Kentucky

Laura called Joe from 859-608-6340 (page 137)

PDF: Documents Part 2
http://media2.myfoxorlando.com/docum…0-anthony2.pdf
644 pages

page 78 – 151 – Joe Jordan Interview – Nov 5, 2009

pg 230 – Joe said Laura B claims to be good friends with Cindy Anthony – on her Facebook and MySpace pages

JJ: …. and I know for a fact that she ah, you know she claims to be good friends with Cindy Anthony. So…
SA: Who claims to be good friends with Cindy Anthony?
JJ: Huh?
SA: Who claim to be good friends with Cindy Anthony?
JJ: This Laura Buchanan.
SA: Okay.
CE: Wait, where did you hear that?
JJ: …. said these things I printed out from the internet like they’re public post. Um, and her Face Book… her My Space profile where she says she’s, she.. she’s um, upset about her friends in Florida. And then it says um, then it says, you know she’s on like one of those memorial sites and she’s typing in that ah, um, that she’s really good friends with Cindy Anthony and she knows that this is you know, this is really hard for them. And they wish that more understanding for the grandparents and blah..blah..blah..blah..blah. So, you know I, I have a, I have like ten pages that I compiled of stuff I just found out in the open and I’ll, I mean I’ll, I’ll give to you guys and you can look at it. And for what it’s worth that’s why I was a little nervous about why this lady would even contact me.

Laura B. says she knows Caylee’s grandparents “very well” at this memorial site
http://www.respectance.com/Caylee_Anthony/memorial/index/page/236/

laura buchanan:
..and in baez’s motion, exhibit “B”, she says she lives in new jersey.

http://www.wftv.com/pdf/21703813/detail.html (page 17).

Where do these people come from? One after the other it seems. Are they just trying for there 15 mins of fame? There is something deeper and sadder going on here than I think most of us want to know. These people seem to have no morals or ethics and in one case serious mental illness problems. there is a big difference between being an armchair detective and actively involving yourself directly into this mess. No wonder Cindy went looney toons. Between the MIlstead’s , Joy WrAY, Dominic Casey, Hoover, Padilla, Garrison, Earnest and her buddy Rebecca. Did I miss anyone?

Gracie – I think you missed some of the attorneys.

If Laura Buchanan is really a friend (or relative?) of Cindy then you missed her. http://www.respectance.com/Caylee_Anthony/memorial/index/page/236/
Interesting on this site (linked above) there are 5 Buchanans listed; Donna, Pat, Lyndsey, Anita and Laura. Same family or just the same last name? There are maybe 100 members listed. Approx. I didn’t count.

I meant to say the Buchanans from Thinker’s link above. I didn’t just pull the link out of the sky, or any where else for that matter.

.» Thinker said: { Apr 2, 2010 – 11:04:38 }
RE: Laura Buchanan – friend of the Anthonys – working for Defense – Kentucky law enforcement

.the links don’t work, this one does, ( for the laura buchanan info that you posted.)

http://media2.myfoxorlando.com/documents/032310-anthony1.pdf

\Site is running fastt an smooth at my end the U.K.Thanks for yje site an thoughtfull Posters…

..this is very weird, to me anyway.

..i knew james hoover had given a tip to a searcher from TES to go to the woods ( “but don’t use my name—-b/c i work for the anthony’s, and i’ll get fired” —-or some such thing.)

..i DIDN’T know that hoover signed up AS a volunteer FOR TES.

..on 11/08/08 ( just a week prior to the video tape creep show? or aug.11th/08?)

..i don’t recall in any of hoover’s stmts/depos that he mentions JOINING TES ??

http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/12379-12661-redacted.pdf

..hoovers volunteer registration form, page 214.

jmlm said: { Mar 31, 2010 – 12:03:16 }
. Also Laura Buchanan told Joe Jordan she was a cop from KY yet her signed statement says she lives in NJ. Anyone know who she is? It appears a bozo plant!

..she IS “hinky” and beyond…

..as Thinker posted:
http://media2.myfoxorlando.com/documents/032310-anthony1.pdf

..page 217 she lives in kentucky-09/2008–is LE (fish and game).

..then : baez’s motion:
http://www.wftv.com/pdf/21703813/detail.html

..page 17 she lives in new jersey 10-2009

..additionally, she is possibly “friends of cindy & george”.!

Laura B. says she knows Caylee’s grandparents “very well” at this memorial site
http://www.respectance.com/Caylee_Anthony/memorial/index/page/236/

“October 20, 2008 by Laura Buchanan:

There could never be two people who have loved you more than your Grandparents.. I wish nothing more than for you to come home.. Your beautiful face is on my mind every night.. As I lay and pray for your safe return. Cindy and George are wonderful people if only others could see that!! I know them very well and you could not ask for better Grandparents.. We love you all”

…….good question: WHO is laura buchanan ?

..kentucky “LE” ? she told joe jordan that, (and that she was working also for baez)…
..a kind soul from new jersey volunteering for TES?
..a “friend” of the anthony’s ? a “plant” in TES to “discover what people were doing/saying against kc?” ( as george apparently said people were doing..)

..someone who ( thought they ) wanted “their 15 minutes” ( and is now digging a hole under a rock somewhere…..) ??

FRIENDS: It seems that the word/term “FRIEND” is used very loosely these days. When someone says they are friends with so & so, I most often take this to mean they may have some link to the person. I could say Val is my friend, based on the fact that I have exchanged a few emails. This seems to me how many base their claims of friendship. In fact I have very few friends, as per what I believe friendship actually is. People call others friends when actually they mean the person is an acquaintance. I would like to know which Laura Buchanan actually is.

Question please:
We all know that Casey made a verbal and written statement about ZFG and the Sawgrass Mills Apt. We heard from Cindy about the JBP slapdown but has CASEY ever stated that either verbally or written anywhere?

Thanks for the answers

» BrendaT said: { Apr 3, 2010 – 12:04:28 }

Gracie – I think you missed some of the attorneys.

Everybody – even Casey – is entitled to a defense, but there will be a special place in hell for Baez.

» NJ Sleuth said: { Apr 3, 2010 – 07:04:50 }

Question please:

Good Morning NJ Sleuth, I have never seen anything about Casey ptting the jbp scenario in writing. That little plot was cooked by Cindy and 1st mentioned I think by cindy in her FBI interview. George may have mentioned before she did at an OSCO interview but I would have to go back to those interviews.

Do you think that if Casey gets desperate, she might plea that the death was
an accident but that she was somehow coerced by her mother Cindy to participate
in the cover-up? That could put Cindy in some hot water?

Monica, she would still have to prove it. Where’s the proof? Just as she is going to have an impossible task in explaining away the 31 days of partying, she would also have a heck of a time proving Cindy knew anything about Caylee being dead prior to that 911 phone call.

More than that, those pesky 31 days when no one (NO ONE) saw the slightest bit of distress from Casey Anthony. Even under the most extreme pressure by Cindy Anthony, a mother whose child is dead cannot fake happiness if she does not, in fact, feel happy. Cindy coulnd’t have put pressure on her before Cindy knew Caylee was missing/dead, so again, how does she explain those 31 days of The Beautiful Life?

Looks like the deadline for the defense to file a motion is Monday at 5pm.

Florida Rule of Criminal Procedure 3.040 – Computation of Time

In computing any period of time prescribed or allowed by these rules, by order of court, or by anyapplicable statute, the day of the act or event from which the designated period of time begins to run is not to be included.

The last day of the period so computed shall be counted, unless it is a Saturday, Sunday, or legal holiday, in which event the period shall run until the end of the next day that is neither a Saturday, Sunday, nor legal holiday.

» Marica said: { Apr 3, 2010 – 04:04:50 }

FRIENDS: It seems that the word/term “FRIEND” is used very loosely these days.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You are so correct IMO. The word “friend” has become cheapened and trivialized since the advent of the internet social sites. For many people out there who cannot, for whatever reason, cultivate deep and lasting friendships in “real life: face to face” it is a way to become “important and valued” for what they are NOT…but, rather, what they market as who they are. The internet is a perfect place for hiding what you want to hide about yourself while becoming, for the moment, what you think others will like. Some people are in their true element there in that wonderful world they created for themselves. We meet them in “real life” and it might take all of 10 minutes to make a judgment and reject them as a potential friend but, behind the PC, it’s a bit harder to do. All the body language is missing as is all the energy and exchange of reality.
Trade a few IM’s and maybe an email or two and voila! GOOD FRIENDS are born.
I am not a psychologist but I can easily see that this case has attracted an “old bug,” behaving in old ways in a NEW medium, bugs that crawled out of the woodwork (from behind their PC’s) and complicated matters in a way that would have been more difficult to do in the day when people had to meet in person or go to the trouble to communicate by US mail. These old bugs insert themselves quickly and with ease into the periphery or middle of a missing child or murder case all for the love of gossip, drama, a sense of “being on the inside” and “being important” and close to the main players and without having to identify who they really are or what their motivations might be. They can invent any motivation that they like and when put under scrutiny, it finally rings false…but, without scrutiny they can have us believe anything they like, at least for a time.
I think that the mention, early on in the case, of large sums of money being speculated upon and the promise of rewards motivated some of these people to involve themselves and the others, simply because that’s what they do…”make friends” with people who are on the inside of an exciting arena, as they see it. I also get the feeling that most of these people expressly use the internet BECAUSE they HAVE had great difficulties in their lives in their interpersonal relationships with “real” people (real people have always caught on to them very quickly and rejected them as potential friends) and so use the internet to the supposedly support and rescue those they see as being “picked on” by others but it’s really just an information farming expedition. Most people don’t like them and they don’t realize it is because they behave in unlikable ways. Rejection by others is a constant in their lives.
They gossip, manipulate others, tell falsehoods to create waves and excitement, control others with lies and pretend to be friends to obtain information from people that they can then use to pass on in self importance…they comfort and support people to get “close” to their source of information. Very parasitic in nature.
The internet makes it just that much easier.
Actually, go back to grade school and you’ll see that you always knew some of these types of kids and you’ll remember the other kids didn’t like them way back then and with good reason. They were crawling all over the place in those days…now they’re crawling all over the internet doing the same thing…only now they call themselves “friends.”
Today you can make friends or get rid of them when things don’t go your way (or someone questions you or figures out who you really are) and then make new friends to replace the old friends instantly with the click of a mouse. How wonderful; what progress we’ve made.

I am wondering what excuses Casey gave to TL and Roomates on why she was always “free to do” whatever.

She told them she worked at Universal and tha she was a student yet she was always around. How did she explain that?

I have a question that I’ve never seen the answer to. Maybe, some of you know….

What were the 911 calls about from the Anthony residence in the years prior to the tragic murder of Caylee?

TIA!

Oh, and I forgot to mention that one must not forget the value of internet revenge…a little reward given to the self at the expense of the friend who is no longer a friend. So many ways to get even that it’s hard to choose just what to do. But, that’s why it’s important to remember to “save” the entire friendship for the day when it isn’t a friendship (because, it’s known ahead of time that that day will come as it always has in life and over the internet.)
These are very pathetic people but this is their ultimate reward. In the old days they had to resort to telling everyone, in person, the secrets their friend told them and they promised not to tell. We’re back to grade school again but, then, that’s where all this belongs.
“Come on, tell me….I’ll be your best frie-nnnnnd.”
(Anyone else remember that one?)

» Orlandoan One said: { Apr 2, 2010 – 04:04:14 }
Hi, everyone,

Val suggested I put this information in this miscellaneous thread…..

Last week I responded to a commenter that I would try to go by the
Anthony’s home to see if there was evidence of any remodeling. I also
suggested that if they were remodeling they should have a permitting
posting display board in their yard, per code enforcement
requirements for Orange County. Well, I just went out there and saw
no indication of any work going on and no permit boards. Moreover,
the place looks terrible. It almost looks as if noone is living
there, very dead yard, etc.
__________________________________

I wish I could remember where but, I read the A’s had moved down the street from the Hopespring House. If I can find it I will post it here.

» MLR said: { Apr 3, 2010 – 10:04:57 }

I am wondering what excuses Casey gave to TL and Roomates on why she was always “free to do” whatever.

IIRC she told them that her boss allowed her to work from home on her laptop. I have always been curious about what Casey thought she was going to for wheels once Amy returned from PR. She knew her car was no longer at the Amscott. Amy was back so she couldn’t use her car anymore. She used Tony’s Jeep when he was in NY . Was she she going to report stolen and claim Caylee had been in car? “Oh I just ran into the Amscott to cash a forged cheque and when I came out my car and my baby were gone”

Friend-

Gracie34 Posted this last night. It appears to be a log of Calls to 911.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=7374.msg1104087#new

Tony and his roomates all worked and some were also students. Casey seemed to have made a practice of leaving during the day (stealing food from her parents, forging cheques at Target & Winn Dixie). because they had only known her for such a short time they had no reason to suspect what she was telling was untrue. She was bringing groceries into the house and doing laundry/cleaning etc. One of Tony’s roomates had made a comment to Tony “Dude dont’t screw this up, I haven’t eaten this well in awhile”.

My calculation is that the time period ended on Friday, April 2nd. That is 15 days from the day Judge S. said the Defense had 15 days to file a Motion, which was at the Indigency Hearing on March 18, 2010. Unless you count Friday, April 2nd as a Holiday – “Good Friday” …. then the deadline extends to end of day on Monday April 5th.
GIVE US THE LETTERS ALREADY!!!! (giggle)
Does anybody know if the letters will automatically be released to the media/public at end of day on Monday if no Motion to seal was filed by that time? Or, does the media have to make a public records request in order to get the letters?

gracie34 said: { Apr 3, 2010 – 09:04:57 }
Looks like the deadline for the defense to file a motion is Monday at 5pm.
Florida Rule of Criminal Procedure 3.040 – Computation of Time
In computing any period of time prescribed or allowed by these rules, by order of court, or by any applicable statute, the day of the act or event from which the designated period of time begins to run is not to be included. [not include March 18, 2010 ]
The last day of the period so computed shall be counted, [ last day is Friday, April 2, 2010] unless it is a Saturday, Sunday, or legal holiday, in which event the period shall run until the end of the next day that is neither a Saturday, Sunday, nor legal holiday.

» MLR said: { Apr 3, 2010 – 10:04:57 }

I am wondering what excuses Casey gave to TL and Roomates on why she was always “free to do” whatever.

She told them she worked at Universal and tha she was a student yet she was always around. How did she explain that?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
She had the dream job where she could work from the PC a lot of the time. I remember that someone spoke about thinking how lucky she was to have a job where she often did not have to actually go to work every day. (Remember, she told TR she had computer work to do for her job in her IM’s to him.)
As for the school…if her friends were attending classes or working, they would not know that she was hovering around their apartments in her car or sitting in her parents home on the computer while Caylee made breakfast for herself. It would seem that she was attending classes at the same times they were. The classes at Valencia are only an hour and 1/2 long so it would be easy to make the claim she was taking some courses.

» gracie34 said: { Apr 3, 2010 – 10:04:20 }
Was she she going to report stolen and claim Caylee had been in car? “
__________________________________________

Gracie,

I have always had the thought that she was going to try to claim a car jacking or something similar. I think that’s why the bag was left in the car to TEMPT someone into breaking into it and maybe stealing it. Then at least she would have had everyone looking for a thief that took the car while Caylee was sleeping inside and that person killed Caylee.

I think she was hoping that the car was stolen from Amscot.

I believe that Casey called Cindy back after Cindy’s text that said “call me major prob.”
Casey informed her that the car ran out of gas and that is how George knew to take gas with him. It was all innocent UNTIL they smelled the car.

gracie34 said: { Apr 3, 2010 – 10:04:42 }
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sorry, Gracie, didn’t see your post.

» MLR said: { Apr 3, 2010 – 10:04:00 } I believe that Casey called Cindy back after Cindy’s text that said “call me major prob.”
Casey informed her that the car ran out of gas and that is how George knew to take gas with him. It was all innocent UNTIL they smelled the car.

Good point, I wonder if anyone asked George or Cindy about that in the SA depo, I can’t remember. I remember reading the part about Cindy texting her but can’t recall anything on the gas cans. Back to the depo’s, sigh.

» Mimi said: { Apr 3, 2010 – 10:04:59 }

gracie34 said: { Apr 3, 2010 – 10:04:42 }
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sorry, Gracie, didn’t see your post.

Hi Mimi, everybody always crosses posts, it’s good to know we all are paying attention,lol

Do you think Casey Anthony’s attorney, Jose Baez, is profiting off of the case against his client?
Choice Votes Percentage of 8810 Votes
Yes 8437 96%
No 373 4%

This is a survey WFTV is doing. Very telling.

» MLR said: { Apr 3, 2010 – 10:04:44 }
Friend-

Gracie34 Posted this last night. It appears to be a log of Calls to 911.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=7374.msg1104087#new

———————————-

Thank you MLR!

Does anyone know what the call codes mean and what transpired? Isn’t this public info?

gracie34 said: { Apr 3, 2010 – 10:04:33 }
Do you think Casey Anthony’s attorney, Jose Baez, is profiting off of the case against his client?
Choice Votes Percentage of 8810 Votes
Yes 8437 96%
No 373 4%

This is a survey WFTV is doing. Very telling.

****

That poll question is so badly phrased that the results are meaningless IMO. Profiting is a neutral term, but profiteering is a pejorative term meaning “making a profit by unethical means.”

I’m willing to bet a whole lot of people who answered that poll were thinking of the meaning of profiteering when they answered that question.

I expect defense attorneys to take in enough money from their clients to make a living. Bill Sheaffer said weeks ago that he would have taken $50,000 of Casey’s $200,000 ABC money and set aside of it for trial costs. Implicit in his response was that he would be taking a fair chunk of that money to pay himself. Would Sheaffer be profiting off of the case? Yes! Would his profiting be unethical? No, not even if he paid himself along the way and ran out of money a year before the trial and needed to have his client file for indigency to pay due process costs for the work that still needed to be done.

But isn’t Jose Baez supposed to be working pro bono?

Sorry, Maura. I didn’t finish my thought about the poll. I am curious about ABC’s term of “brokering” regarding the deal Baez put together for Casey for $200k blood money. Usually when you broker something you are paid a brokering fee. I agree that the poll is badly worded but it could be that many people suspect he has profited beyond his attorney’s fees. ABC stated also that some of this money was paid to “relatives”. Who brokered that part of the deal and what was their broker fee? I have my suspicions that Casey put this deal together with Baez’s help and that Cindy & George found out about it after. Maybe this was Casey’s way of taking revenge on Cindy for leaving her jail so long and not taking advantage of the opportunity that was there, the one that Casey mentions in one of her little jail house visits with the folks. Baez stated in court that he has worked exclusively on this case and then wants to claim he has made only 89k in almost 2 years?

I don’t think attorneys think of profiting off their clients. Rather it is a payment for services rendered. Baez saw a chance to seize $200,000 for himself and he grabbed it. Most ethical lawyers outline their fee and estimated costs at the time they take the case.

Just found this

This is an interview with one of the Anthony’s neighbors. It was done on 7-22-08. There is no transcript because it was NEVER released in the Doc Dumps.

I warn you…this is a very telling and scary interview. They picked the place where the remains were found 6 days after the initial 911 call. It all stemmed from an interview Kio Marie did with LE. This guy describes perfectly the remains site, as he heard from Kio, and LE said they were following up on it. Remember all of this took place on 7-22-08. He even has some great thoughts about George and Cindy. Cindy being a bitch, a racist, VERY controlling, etc.

F’ing WOW and I mean WOW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSBGyYFwtTk

Dom said: { Apr 3, 2010 – 04:04:25 } Just found this

Wow… I never heard that one before either. It’s good they have this on tape because it confirms Kio’s story before she sold out to NE. Cindy mentions the story about her in the psycho ward to Casey during one of the jail visits and Casey pretended not know who Cindy was talking about (Kio)

The scariest thing about that video is that there are people in the world who would stoop to such a low level, trashing their neighbors and posting it on YouTube. Just a few more chancers looking to get their moment of glory at the expense of a dead child.

Sorry; that’s just how it struck me. Very mean spirited and pointless.

PonderingWhy said: { Apr 3, 2010 – 05:04:22 }
Sorry; that’s just how it struck me. Very mean spirited and pointless

Disagree….From everything I have read, seen, researched, and witnessed….they are both right on the money. As for posting it on you tube…they didn’t. Sierra did. As for “a moment of glory”…I have yet to see them be on a talk show, radio, or National inquirer. I think you are wrong here. Just my opinion of course

» PonderingWhy said: { Apr 3, 2010 – 05:04:22 }

Did you listen to the whole tape?
This was an interview done by LE.
At the end they had to raise their hand to swear the truth…….

They do sound like gossiping neighbors, but now we do know a little more about C & G.
The neighbors were right on the money about Cindy.

Yep, it was an LE interview. And while I think it is very gossipy and the dude’s opinion of Cindy (i.e. Mom from hell or something like that) has no merit in the investigation, I don’t think this is a recording made by them. I believe this is a released OCSO recording in discovery.

If LE can get something useful out if it, great. They just come across as mean spritied and filled with opinions that seem irrelevant to me. I’m struggling to see how some neighbor’s opinion that Cindy is a bitch and a racist has any bearing on anything.

That’s how I hear it; chancers who are being snotty about their neighbors. Not saying they went in search of money, just saying they sound thrilled to have the opportnuity to stick to to a neighbor they don’t like. Must be pure magic having neighbors like that.

PonderingWhy said: { Apr 3, 2010 – 03:04:36 }
But isn’t Jose Baez supposed to be working pro bono?

***

Jose Baez never said he was working pro bono. He is working pro bono from this point on merely because his client is now indigent, and Florida will not pay him any personal fees because Casey hired him as her private counsel (the state only pays private attorney fees for indigent defendants if the state appoints the attorney to take it because the public defender’s office can’t due to conflict of interest or heavy case loads).

Linda Kenney-Baden never said she was working pro bono but at the last hearing, she said she had not been paid and from this point on would be working pro bono.

Andrea Lyon said from the start that she was working pro bono.

I am guessing Todd Macaluso was working pro bono (don’t recall if he ever said) simply because if he expected to be paid, I don’t think he would have donated $70,000 to Casey’s defense fund.

Cheney Mason is working pro bono because he came aboard just as she was being declared indigent.

» PonderingWhy said: { Apr 3, 2010 – 07:04:56 }

Please remember this interview was done very early on.

They sound like an older couple, maybe interviewed for the very first time in their life by LE.
My husband’s parents live in a retirement community in Florida.
OMG! To listen to their communications all day long.
These people have no jobs they are retired.
I mean, one will look out of the window and see the neighbor vacuum the livingroom floor, that’s the subject of the conversation for the next 10 minutes..
I swear…….
So imagine something like the disappearing of a little girl missing happening in their neighborhood and then the police comes over and talk to them>>>!!!!!!

That’s more than a 10 minute talk about the neighbor vacuuming, that’s HUGE!
That’s a lot to talk about and both of them wanted to be a “helpful” as they could.

Maura: “Florida will not pay him any personal fees because Casey hired him as her private counsel”

I know it’s a different state but as I recall California paid Geragos a lesser fee but still they paid Scott Peterson’s chosen counsel. Is this just a matter of FL rules vs. CA?

gracie34 said: { Apr 3, 2010 – 03:04:30 }
Sorry, Maura. I didn’t finish my thought about the poll. I am curious about ABC’s term of “brokering” regarding the deal Baez put together for Casey for $200k blood money. Usually when you broker something you are paid a brokering fee. I agree that the poll is badly worded but it could be that many people suspect he has profited beyond his attorney’s fees. ABC stated also that some of this money was paid to “relatives”. Who brokered that part of the deal and what was their broker fee? I have my suspicions that Casey put this deal together with Baez’s help and that Cindy & George found out about it after. Maybe this was Casey’s way of taking revenge on Cindy for leaving her jail so long and not taking advantage of the opportunity that was there, the one that Casey mentions in one of her little jail house visits with the folks. Baez stated in court that he has worked exclusively on this case and then wants to claim he has made only 89k in almost 2 years?

**

To my knowledge, ABC News has never used the term “broker” for Jose Baez in reference to the August 2008 licensing deal. Lots of other people are using that word, but no one from the organization that signed the contract.

ABC News spokeswoman Cathie Levine issued this statement: “In August 2008, we licensed exclusive rights to an extensive library of photos and home videos for use by our broadcast platforms, affiliates and international partners. No use of the material was tied to any interview.”

[Hal Boekecker of the Orlando Sentinel] called Cathie Levine and asked her if the deal was done with Casey Anthony. Hal wrote, “The deal was done with an attorney representing several owners of copyrighted content. That attorney is Baez.”

Clearly Baez negotiated the terms and acted as a go-between for Casey ANthony and ABC News, but that doesn’t mean he took a traditional “broker’s” cut off the top and then dipped into the rest for his attorney fees for working on the murder case. After all, one of the reasons he was negotiating the contract in the first place was so he could be paid for defending her. As it is, he took 45% of the ABC payout, Andrea Lyon got 11%, Marti McKenzie got 5% and he wanted to tell Strickland privately who else got paid and how much. And Casey had to pay taxes on it.

No one has ever to my knowledge said Cindy or George received a penny of that ABC News $200,000. Cindy and George received $20,000 from CBS News for the 48 Hour: Mystery show. The CBS payout to George and Cindy was mentioned in several articles about the ABC payout to Casey.

I also don’t recall Jose Baez’s saying he has exclusively worked on this case (literally), and he’d be pretty idiotic to say so given that when Baez asked the court last year to postpone the check fraud trial because the murder trial was already taking up so much of his time, ASA Frank George pointed out that according to court records, Baez had taken on about 100 new clients after agreeing to represent Casey in July 17, 2008.

PonderingWhy – I had a different take on that couple. They were just spilling it out, as they felt it. I thought they were kind of adorable. Just regular neighbors who’d probably been through the mill with the Anthonys and told it as they saw it. I didn’t feel they were bad people at all. Just a couple of older folks trying to be honest without any filters.

In Florida, a privately-retained attorney who declares his client indigent for costs does not receive personal money. On Casey’s behalf, Jose Baez can ask for due process costs (things like court reporters, investigators, experts, transcriptionists, etc.) but cannot ask for fees for himself.

The only time the State of Florida will pay attorney fees for representing an indigent client is if the state asked the attorney to take the case in the first place. That would happen if the public defenders had a conflict of interest that would prevent them from representing her or if the public defender’s office is so overworked when a big case comes in that they can’t handle the indigent client with the complex case. The state will then negotiate or even appoint a private attorney to represent her, and the attorney will be paid personal fees but with a rate cap.

Since Casey retained Jose Baez, then got a big pot of money, then ran out of the money and still needs a lot of money to prepare for trial, she is entitled to state funds for due process costs, but none of her privately-retained attorneys will get any personal money. And the experts she has retained so far will have to accept the state’s rate caps ($150/hour) for their services and will have to pay their own travel costs to the trial if they live out of state.

Thanks M. You never disappoint.

As far as the tape of the older couple I found….I know it was done by LE and it was sworn after the fact. Sierra ,at another sight ,got it through a gentleman that went to the court to get it released….or so it seems. It feels right and it dovetails PERFECTLY with everything we have learned over the past year or so. All of the personal nuances that the gentlemen states is a dead on ringer for the facts that are present. These are the type of folks that need to get on Grace and Geraldo…..they are real folks

Hi Maura, this deal with ABC is still disgusting and it probably occurred around Aug 14/08 as Baez was in New York and that is when George and Cindy had their last jail visit with Casey before she was bonded out. I did state that I thought George & Cindy were unaware of this deal until after it was done. I still think Baez got some money out of this by acting as a broker. I would bet you dollars to donuts that ABC paid his way to New York and put him in some fancy hotel as well. I am searching for the clip were he stated in court he had worked exclusively on Ms. Anthony’s case. I am not suggesting that he received anything other than the original 89 as part of his fees but that he took other monies paid directly to him.

Gracie – if Baez got extras he is an even greater idiot than I think he is. I would so love you to be right. He has got to have had legal/accounting/ethical advice up the yin yang about the financial reporting which a ten year old could have done. I mean even I could recite his figures more or less from memory and add them up and allocate them. I reaalllllly hope you prove me wrong on this one. That would be a happy happy day. But I don’t think so…..one more time oh god I hope I’m wrong.

PonderingWhy said: { Apr 3, 2010 – 05:04:22 }
The scariest thing about that video is that there are people in the world who would stoop to such a low level, trashing their neighbors and posting it on YouTube. Just a few more chancers looking to get their moment of glory at the expense of a dead child.

Sorry; that’s just how it struck me. Very mean spirited and pointless.

****

That’s an OCSO interview if you’re talking about Bailey and Joyce Dickens.

Kio went to visit them on the evening of Saturday, July 19. After Bailey told her Casey had borrowed a shovel from Brian Burner, Kio said if Casey borrowed the shovel to bury Caylee, then she though Casey might have buried Caylee in The Zone. Bailey called Brian Burner to get the telephone number of Detective Wells and told Kio to call him with her information, which she did that same evening. She met Detective Wells at the elementary school around 10:00pm and walked him to The Zone (which is up near the school, not near the remains). Detective Wells had a K9 unit check The Zone within days. A LEO went to interview Joyce and Bailey on July 22 (that’s the interview on YouTube).

You can see that the gossip meter was on full power in the neighborhood.

On Thursday, July 17 at 5:00pm, OCSO interviewed Brian Burner and took the shovel into evidence. The Burners live next door to the Anthonys.

On Saturday, July 19, Kio went to visit Joyce and Bailey Dickens (no doubt to hear the gossip). Bailey and Joyce knew about the borrowed shovel and told Kio. During what was apparently a gossipfest, Bailey said Kio told them that Casey once said Cindy had been in a psychiatric ward for a week. According to Kio, she had run into Casey in April after not seeing her for a long time, so if Casey did claim Cindy had once spent a week in a psychiatric ward, it was something Casey had said at least three months before Casey’s arrest.

On Friday, July 25 during a video visitation with Cindy and George, Cindy asked Casey, “Is there a Tia Torres in our neighborhood?” Casey said, “I don’t know who that is.” Cindy said, “I forget who she told, but she told someone that I was hospitalized recently with a mental condition.”

That’s how rumors change as they spread, which is why I still think Hoover’s November 8 TES tip (from a neighborhood child, apparently) could be linked to Keith Williams’s October 21 visit to Suburban Drive in a white car near the school when Keith and a teacher had a conversation about searching for Caylee while a class of fourth graders watched.

Ms. Maura,

May I ask what are your thoughts on Kio? Do you believe she has credibility?

As I was making twenty pounds of potato salad and putting the turkey in the oven for dinner tomorrow, I thought of my grandson making beef jerky in the oven on low heat one evening.
Then I thought about that pizza box and that of any protein that would of been in the trash bag and if there was any and how it would of been jerky by the time it was found.

As to the Velveeta boxes in the trash I don’t see it “ruining” so to speak, because mine always has hard dried cheese. I’ve bagged it, wrapped it in foil, put it in a cheese box in the fridge hoping it would survive but it hasn’t worked for me. I always have that one dried up end.

So anybody? Ever made jerky? Or have dried up cheese?

I posted in another forum about cleaning out my SUV and finding old dried up french fries and how they survived with no mold or decay on them. I was called a pig by one poster whose parents wouldn’t let anybody eat or drink in their car.

I toted my kids and their friends and now my grandkids and their friends and they eat and drink and play their music ( to a degree I can stand it then it’s Golden Oldies which they do like but pretend they don’t) and if anything is spilled (and seen at the time) it’s cleaned up.

Anyone ever found french fries and other “food” in their cars ? Inquiring minds want to know.

My mother-in-law’s world is our old neighborhood that she watches out her kitchen windows most of the day. I want to pound my head on the ground on listening to every minute, every detail of the neighbors and anyone else that goes up and down the road. I told my husband (my family calls him the saint for putting up with me almost forty years) that we should get her a gun turret so she doesn’t have to move from window to window,and she is a good watch dog in her noseyness, so I’m with those that think the neighbor’s were very genuine and up front in their remarks and appearance in their statements.
Now the ones that have an agenda in showing us how Casey and family have been done wrong seem to have a variety of problems with the law or mental heath issues and credibility.

These are the thoughts that go through my head all the time.

% I’m just a soul whose intentions are good. Oh Lord,please don’t let me be misunderstood. Eric Burdon and the Animals %

In Feburary I sent a email to DEPAUL U. Asking them why they were paying Andrea Lyon while she was defending Casey Anthony. They stated that the professors are granted time to indigent DP cases. I then informed them that Casey Anthony was not indigent and had a private money backer siting a WESH video in which Baez stated this.
Then less than a month later Casey Anthony requests indingecy…..
Could the timing be related to pressure from DEPAUL?

Mimi~ loved your post on new age friendship! So true. The internet is wonderful and at the same time can be a pandora’s box . It is the perfect medium for strangers to involve themselves in others lives, invited or not.

My 2 cents on the audio of the neighbors, I thought they were really funny and informative. They confirmed things about Casey and Cindy that the spin doctors would have the public believe that only occurred as a result of the strain of Caylee’s demise.
This couple relays to LE that Cindy has always been a royal pain, their family was not solid, George wasn’t employed often and Casey is a liar.
This couple had no dog in the fight, they weren’t seeking notoriety. To have an unbiased view on the A’s is refreshing to me, because according to Cindy,George and Casey, they are the most rock solid loving families around and anyone that dares to say otherwise is full of it and just might get their a## kicked ( as per Tim Miller’s msg from CA) Honesty anywhere in the vicinity of the A’s is rare.

Christine~ love it. I wonder if your latter did have something to do with it??? They need watchdogs on them all the time because they’re so shady. Thumbs up for taking the time to inquire. I’ve written to the Fl. bar about Baez but get automated type answers back, but hey, somebody might take a deeper look sometime.

I don’t know how credible Kio is. It bothers me that she sold a story to the National Enquirer (Fox News said she got $20,000). It really bothers me that the story of the pet burial didn’t surface until after the remains were found and in a National Enquirer story. It really, really bothers me that the story of burying pets in two bags and decorating the bags with hearts didn’t surface until it was published in her second National Enquirer story, which was one week after the release of the search warrant noting the heart-shape sticker the FBI had noticed on the duct tape.

When Kio was interviewed by Detective Wells on July 19, she told him about The Zone, an area in the woods near the elementary school where she, Jessica Kelly, and Casey hung out all through middle school. That was the place Kio thought of when she heard Casey had borrowed a shovel. No mention of pet burials.

I am unaware of any report in discovery mentioning any attempt by Kio to contact OCSO with the pet cemetary or “heart decoration” information. She sold that information to a tabloid. I realize witnesses have pre-interviews and sometimes disclose information that is deliberately not captured on the official recording, but after all this time, if Kio had mentioned a pet cemetary or hearts to OCSO, I believe we would have read about it by now in one of the supplemental reports.

*

On December 18 (seven days after the remains were found), Kiomarie Torres Cruz sold her story to the National Enquirer. She distorted the facts by claiming the remains were found in the same place where she and Casey used to hang out and bury their pets. The woods in that area cover maybe 12 acres of woods, and Caylee’s remains were not found near the hangout/pet cemetary.

In a January 21 doc dump, the December 20 search warrant for the Anthony house was released to the public; in the warrant was mention of the heart-shaped outline Elizabeth Fontaine observed on one of the pieces of duct tape. That information was heavily covered by new outlets.

On January 28 (seven days later), Kiomarie Cruz sold another story to the National Enquirer article. In this story, Kiomarie said she, Casey and their friend Jessica held a funeral for Jessica’s hamster, Sage, when the girls were 13. She went on to say that when they buried Jessica’s hamster, they put the hamster in a plastic bag and put then inside a paper bag, and on the paper bag drew five or six hearts as signs of love and wrote “We will miss you, Sage” on it. And when Casey and Kiomarie buried Kiomarie’s bird in the same spot, they wrapped the bird in a heart-embellished blanket and then in a bag.

If the story of the double-bagged pets and heart decorations is true and OCSO can find the third friend, Jessica Kelly, to corroborate the story, then Kiomarie won’t look so questionable for running to the Enquirer with the story. If Jessica can’t be found or says she doesn’t remember the event or details, then the jury probably won’t take Kio seriously about anything. If Jessica says Kiomarie is making it up, then Kiomarie’s entire testimony is shot.

Then there’s KioMarie’s alleged claim in the first National Enquirer story that she and Casey were so close that Casey gave Caylee the middle name of Marie, in honor of Kiomarie. Does she not know that Cindy and Casey both have the middle name Marie?

And then there’s her claim to the National Enquirer that she stopped hanging around with Casey when Casey started drinking and that Casey was “also smoking weed at one point in time.” Casey’s close friends of the last few years pretty much said Casey did not do any drugs until she hooked up with Ricardo in 2008. So if Kio and Casey parted ways years earlier, how would Kio know about the weed?

Christine said: { Apr 4, 2010 – 12:04:38 }
In Feburary I sent a email to DEPAUL U. Asking them why they were paying Andrea Lyon while she was defending Casey Anthony. They stated that the professors are granted time to indigent DP cases. I then informed them that Casey Anthony was not indigent and had a private money backer siting a WESH video in which Baez stated this.
Then less than a month later Casey Anthony requests indingecy…..
Could the timing be related to pressure from DEPAUL?

***

In the January 25 check fraud hearing when the state said they wanted Casey to pay almost $6,000 in court and investigative costs, Andrea Lyon said Casey might have to declare indigency. And during the same hearing, Linda Drane Burdick told the court that if the testimony of Jill Kerley was going to be allowed, then the state wanted the defense to pick up all costs for what would essentially be a mini-trial in Tennessee. The defense did not want to hear that at all.

Thank you for responding Ms. Maura.

I have questioned Kio’s motives due to IMO selling out. I think she has the same issue Casey has with taking bits of the truth and creating a story out of it. I can only hope they find Jessica.

Maura said: { Apr 3, 2010 – 07:04:15 }
PonderingWhy said: { Apr 3, 2010 – 03:04:36 }
But isn’t Jose Baez supposed to be working pro bono?

***

Jose Baez never said he was working pro bono. He is working pro bono from this point on merely because his client is now indigent.
——————————————————-

..i’ve never understood this part———-in kc’s very 1st appearance,the judge asks,and——–she fills out the “indigent” form:

http://blog.richardhornsby.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/20080717-Application-for-Indigent-Status.pdf

AND requests a “public defender”: ( also on above document ).

..then, on this site:

..http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=3214.0

..”order of appearance- -jose baez” 7/17/08
..”order appointing public defender” 7/17/08

……………doesn’t that mean that he IS—her “appointed” public defender ? ( and therefore “pro-bono” from the VERY start? )

Actually, I believe Casey appeared before a judge and was in the process of requesting an appointed attorney, then called Baez, who went to the jail that day shortly after her cal and then to the courthouse to file the paper work saying her was representing Casey. I read Hornsby’s post when it was first posted and sure sounds like there was no grass growing between Casey’s call to Baez and the visit/filing. It always made me wonder if she knew Baez prior to that first call. They seemed to get darned chummy very fast. No doubt simply the over active imagination and typical suspicions of an old woman.

Re: The older couple/neighbors interviewed. I can imagine that if something of this nature happened on the block where I live, I would be so uncomfortable about the everything I would no doubt tell detectives pretty much the same. I don’t fault them for their telling everything they had observed, or expressing their opinions. At least we haven’t seen these people on TV, in magazines or tabloids. I still do not understand how anyone could, or would sell stories or photo’s. Can bet your last dollar, if I had known Caylee and had a photo of her, it would have remained private. I have thousands of px on my computer of my little ones, and if anyone ever sold one the px I have personally taken of my little people there would be hell to pay.

Got it in one, Maura (as you always do). That couple’s interview, in my mind, was a gossip-fest. If others find them adorable, so be it. I find that sort of ‘jump on the hate wagon’ useless at best.

My parents are probably their age and I know for a fact they would never speak that way when giving what is supposed to be helpful information to the police. Neither would I, neither would most people I know, but apparently many people would.

Ultimately, the police know how to separate the spite from the fact, so I’m quite sure whatever useful tidbits they offered were worth getting through the gossip to reach.

Marica said: { Apr 4, 2010 – 05:04:37 }
Actually, I believe Casey appeared before a judge and was in the process of requesting an appointed attorney, then called Baez, who went to the jail that day shortly after her cal and then to the courthouse to file the paper work saying her was representing Casey. I read Hornsby’s post when it was first posted and sure sounds like there was no grass growing between Casey’s call to Baez and the visit/filing. It always made me wonder if she knew Baez prior to that first call. They seemed to get darned chummy very fast. No doubt simply the over active imagination and typical suspicions of an old woman.

***

There’s no record indicating Casey called Jose Baez, and I personally don’t believe she knew him before July 17.

Casey was arrested at 4:30pm on July 16 at OCSO’s central operations building on Colonial Drive. She was transferred a few hours later, and was logged in at the Booking and Release Center (in the OC jail complex) located on John Young Parkway at 8:09pm. Casey more-or-less confirmed the timeline when she called the Anthony house at 11:16pm and said she had been taken to the jail around 8:30pm.

During that angry 13-minute call to the Anthony house, she said she had just watched the 11 o’clock news, specifically that she had watched Cindy’s “cameo” and seen Mallory’s car parked in front of the house. Obviously, she had been in an area with a television when she watched the news. Cells don’t have televisions, so it’s possible she was in a general area when she watched the news and did have the opportunity to talk to other inmates at the booking center as she later claimed to Lee. Her Prisoner Transport Jurat was time-stamped 11:40pm, and according to Richard Hornsby, that’s the time she was officially booked.

During Lee’s first video visitation on July 25, he warned Casey that Jose Baez was his own top priority, then Casey, then Caylee. He asked Casey how Baez came to be her lawyer. Casey said she was talking to other inmates during her booking process, and an inmate asked her if she had a lawyer. She said no. According to Casey, several inmates recommended Jose Baez, so Casey asked one of the inmates to get word to Baez on her behalf, and he showed up the next day after her initial appearance.

Realistically, Casey could have been telling the truth. She was clearly not simply booked quickly and then completely segregated in a protective custody cell on the night of July 16 because she was able to watch the 11 o’clock news.

Richard Hornsby said her first appearance before a judge would have been scheduled for 8:30am the next morning (July 17). Initial appearances are held at the OC Booking and Release Center. Prior to that first appearance, Casey filled out the application for indigent status. Her application was granted, and Orange County Public Defender Ms. Stevenson represented Casey at that first court appearance on July 17 in front of Judge Jordan. Casey affirmed to the judge that she wanted the services of a public defender.

According to Casey’s OC Jail Visitor Log, Jose Angel Baez visited Casey a few hours after her initial appearance. His visit lasted from 11:11am to 3:53pm. At 3:54pm, the OC Clerk of Court time-stamped Jose Baez’s Notice of Appearance in the Casey Anthony case. That’s when he officially became her privately-retained counsel.

He left the jail to visit George and Cindy (he was there with a colleague from his firm when Detective Appling Wells asked to look at the back yard around 5:30pm). Then he returned to the jail that evening with Gabriel Adam, a lawyer in The Baez Law Firm (Adam was probably the lawyer with Baez at the Anthony house).

From Casey’s OC Jail Visitor Log on July 17:
Baez, Jose Angel 7:10pm – 9:19pm; Attorney visit
Adam, Gabriel E. 7:11pm – 9:19pm; Attorney visit
Baez, Jose Angel 9:29pm – 10:09pm; Attorney visit

Another possible explanation (the ‘ambulance-chasing’ theory) is that Jose Baez saw the news of her arrest, made some inquiries to see if she had a lawyer, and then showed up at the jail offering his services to her.

The story of Caylee’s disappearance and Casey’s arrest was all over the local news non-stop from the evening of July 16 on. At 11:00am on July 17, Amy sent a text to Will Waters saying, “I don’t know if I want to see her. Did you see her face on that handcuff shot? She wasn’t even upset. Hey, don’t talk to the press or anyon you don’t know about this. Two reporters have come here this morning and 3 have facebooked or myspaced me.”

Moreover, during Lee’s July 25 video visitation, he asked her if she had been getting letters from family. Casey said she had not received any letters from the family but she had received a letter from the Dr. Phil show and A LETTER FROM ANOTHER ATTORNEY DATE JULY 17.

I’ve never bought theories that she knew Baez before July 17. The two most plausible theories IMO are 1) Casey did ask another inmate to pass her name on to Baez, or 2) Baez was simply trolling for clients and initiated contact with her without being asked.

I agree, Maura. And I tend to believe it was the trolling option.

This a link to an article in the Orlando Sentinel from may 3, 2009. Mr. Baez is not exactly a candidate for Attorney of the Year.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/caylee-anthony/orl-casey-anthony-jose-baez-050309,0,6708904.story

An outside possibility is Casey did know Baez and he told her to go through the steps of the initial appearance without him. Perhaps if he’d shown up immediately it would have raised certain questions neither he nor Casey wanted to address. He was still on the scene fast enough to raise doubts about the timing — but had he been with her at booking and arraignment there would have been a million questions.

I say this only partly because of the huge Cheshire grin and chest out strut we witnessed as she made her *debut*. Like the cat who ate the canary. She was too confident. She seemed like she was already playing a game.

I’m just on the fence still about how and when they met so I’m throwing out the possibility.

PonderingWhy: “Neither would I, neither would most people I know, but apparently many people would.”

For the record, just because I think they were adorable and honest DOES NOT mean I would speak that way in this circumstance. Look, all kinds of people live in that neighborhood. It’s a mix of middle-class and lower middle-class. Which really has nothing to do with the way you conduct yourself in a police interview but may go toward the casual nature of the way they spoke.

These people did not put on airs or go into fancy talk. They couldn’t stand the Anthonys, that is clear. They might have a darned good reason for that. And here they had the chance to express their feelings and tell what they know. Maybe they thought if they were brutally honest they would be helping. Sometimes any little detail can be a breakthrough.

Whatever gossip they laid out they seem to be good people. At least they didn’t raise a child murderer or cover up a crime or lie to LE or steal money from the public or act in a dispicable manner to anyone who tried to help them or do their darndest to try and see Amy, Jesse, Ricardo (you know, the triumvirate of Zannys roaming around Orlando kidnapping toddlers) accused of the crime. Does anyone think Cindy would have trouble sleeping at night if any one of that trimvirate was in prison right now accused of Caylee’s demise? Not I.

So the neighbors are a little rough around the edges. I can live with that without BEING that myself.

Anyone criticizing the neighbors… how did you feel about Shirley’s interview? Loads of gossip there if you’re of a mind to see it. “Casey hated Cindy more than she loved Caylee.” And about how she felt about George – not very nice – could go into the realm of gossip. And so much more.

I thought Shirley was the same on the adorable meter as the couple on Hopespring. Except as a great grandma she showed little to no concern about Caylee. Frankly the neighbors seemed a little more concerned than her. Which seemed odd.

Maura: “You can see that the gossip meter was on full power in the neighborhood.”

What neighborhood wouldn’t be gossiping. This was huge news. I mean, c’mon. It’s off the charts as far as qualifying for neighbors talking. It’s simply human nature!

Last thought. If the tables were turned and it was Cindy being interviewed about one of the neighbors she didn’t like… boy oh boy, now that would’ve been an exercise in class, huh?

The venom she would’ve spewed could probably be heard from Orlando to Puerto Rico to New Jersey to…. Just sayin’.

It’s just another way of looking at it, Jennyb. No harm done, no need to agree.

Appreciate that, Pondering.

Another thought on the Baez date of hire issue. It does seem strange that no one on the defense team has made a retraction/correction publicly re: his “slip of the tongue” in court about his hire date. Since there has been speculation about it why not clear it up? Most people, including me, would be willing to accept getting a date messed up. No biggie. Why let a misstatement like this stay on the record?

» jennyb said: { Apr 4, 2010 – 01:04:24 } Another thought on the Baez date of hire issue.

Maybe Casey and Jose met in a bar when she was out “frantically” partying during her search for Caylee. You know, in between her stakeouts (as per Lee/Tony audio).

Sad and tragic that little Caylee isn’t her to look for Easter eggs, anxiously await Santa at Christmas. She will never experience the first day of kindergarten, never learn to read and write and do ‘rmithitic , she will never have a 1st date, a first kiss or go off to college. She will never experience the opportunity to grow up and become whatever she may have dreamed as being as a little girl because she never got the opportunity to grow up.

So maybe the old couple wee a little gossipy but without their information and information from all of the people of had interactions with Casey and her family where would this case be now?

IMO some of you are being a little hard on the Kio woman. She is a very impressionable young girl who was caught up in a developing murder investigation due to no fault of her own. She certainly might have been guilty of inserting herself into the situation and embellishing her stories about Casey and their activities. And, although it might not have been the honorable thing to do, she said “yes” to those tabloids who were willing to throw a bunch of money at her. I don’t know her economic situation, but I venture to say the money was welcomed. I think there would be few of us that would have turned down the opportunity to say basically nothing for a few big bucks.

The jail made it clear very early on that Casey was never in a holding cell with other inmates. Even when waiting at the court house for hearings.
Mr. Baez has a daughter name Christine who attended the same high school… who is one year behind Casey. I think is was scared monkeys that downloaded Casey’s myspace pages that shows her leaving messages to a Christine that said things like…
“say hi to Jose for me”
“how did Jose enjoy Jamacia”
” you have a cool dad”
these were dated 2007 and early 2008.
I do not have the links but I do know what I read……..
There were many many pages …..
How many Christine Baez are there that go to high school with Casey that have a father name Jose….
And this same daughter was hanging out at Jose’s office during the time that Casey spent 6-8 hours a day there while out on bail….

What we may see as gossip from people will help tighten up the web and bring insite into the comings and going of hopespring drive…..
We as the outsiders … can only connect the dots that are given…. and every little piece helps ….
Take for instance the week of November that DC searched the woods ….2 days later Nejame quits…. the 2 days after that Cindy is acting very weird at the presser for the new Caylee Foundation…. by themselves they are interesting but put the whole week together by what we know now it brings things into perspective…… And if it where not for Hoover turning over the tapes and admitting they were out there we would not have understood Cindy’s state of mind at the presser.
I also believe that Tim Miller tried to stay out of the trial part of this whole mess….
He may not want to be called as a witness so many things that went on he kept close to his breast and only opened up to LE when asked about certain things….. I know I would want to stay as far away as possible….

The plot thickens.

Were these lyrics posted in Casey’s photobucket account?

LINDSAY LOHAN LYRICS

“Beautiful Life (La Bella Vita)”

God wont talk to me
I guess she’s pretty busy lately
I’d like to believe
She’s listening

I’m starting to feel
All of my bruises imagined are real
And I’ll get through each day
I dig through the bad ones
To get to the good ones
Who’s keeping score anyway

And this is my beautiful life
The only thing certain is everything changes
Lows and the highs
And all those goodbyes
As hard as it gets I know it’s still amazing
To be alive
It’s a beautiful life

I talk in my sleep
That’s the one place I know no one can hear me
I tell my self things
Don’t walk in the shadows, there’s always tommorow
And I’m right where I want to be

And this is my beautiful life
The only thing certain is everything changes
Lows and the highs
And all those goodbyes
As hard as it gets I know it’s still amazing
To be alive
It’s a beautyful life

Oh it hurts while it’s happening I wanna feel everything
How will you know ’til you try?
And this is my beautiful life

My beautiful life
The only thing certain is everything changes
Lows and the highs
And all those goodbyes
As hard as it gets I know it’s still is amazing
To be alive
It’s a beautiful life [4x]

As far as I know, Gracie, no.

Christine said: { Apr 4, 2010 – 03:04:06 }
The jail made it clear very early on that Casey was never in a holding cell with other inmates. Even when waiting at the court house for hearings.
Mr. Baez has a daughter name Christine who attended the same high school… who is one year behind Casey. I think is was scared monkeys that downloaded Casey’s myspace pages that shows her leaving messages to a Christine that said things like…
“say hi to Jose for me”
“how did Jose enjoy Jamacia”
” you have a cool dad”
these were dated 2007 and early 2008.
I do not have the links but I do know what I read……..
There were many many pages …..
How many Christine Baez are there that go to high school with Casey that have a father name Jose….
And this same daughter was hanging out at Jose’s office during the time that Casey spent 6-8 hours a day there while out on bail….

***

I’ve never read any statements from Orange County stating Casey had no opportunity to interact with other inmates when she was at the booking center on the night of July 16.

The booking center is in the jail complex, but it’s not the detention center. And even in protective custody in the Female Detention Center, we now know she was contacting two other inmates with the help of a guard.

Are you thinking of Travis Nichols, the inmate who came forward on July 30 claiming he had been in a holding cell near Casey’s in the OC Courthouse prior to her July 29 bond hearing? He claimed he asked her where Caylee was and said she told him Caylee was with an ex-boyfriend.

According to a WFTV:
“The jail is checking records to verify that Nichols was in the holding area Tuesday when Casey was there. If they were both there, the jail said it is possible they could have exchanged words through the transparent dividers.”

According to WESH:
“Travis Nichols said Casey Anthony told him where Caylee is. ‘She was talking to a couple of people but I asked her through the holding cell, “What did you do with your baby?” And she said, “I didn’t do nothing. My boyfriend has her.’

The Orange County Jail said it is unlikely that Casey Anthony saw Nichols long enough to hold a conversation.”

***********

As for the story that Christina Baez went to Colonial High School . . . NO!!!!

Coral Reef Senior High School, Miami, Fl
2001 to 2005

Christina Baez went to Coral Reef High School in Miami from 2001 to 2004, and in 2004 earned an International Baccalaureate Diploma. She went to school in Miami because she lived with her mother in Miami.

http://christinabaez.webs.com

The Websleuths pulled together all Casey’s MySpace and Facebook comments as well as many comments from Casey’s friends to each other that they could find and compiled them in one file. I downloaded it. There is only one comment that references anyone named Jose. It was written by one of Casey’s friends named Kyle and left on the Facebook page of his friend named Jose Montinegro on July 15th at 2:42PM:

“Hey Jose, its been too long since we’ve talked. Feel kinda bad, since i left Iadt, and this is gonna sound eh, but sorta lost a good friend. So what you been up to? Hows the school going, i guess things are sorta stagnent right now for me, nothing really exciting happening. I’ll try to keep in touch wit ya. Later jose, take it easy.”

There are no comments from Casey to anyone named Christina. There are comments to Kristina Chester, but that’s it.

Oops –

Christina Baez went to Coral Reef High School in Miami from 2001 to 2005, and in 2005 earned an International Baccalaureate Diploma.

Christine said: { Apr 4, 2010 – 04:04:17 }
Take for instance the week of November that DC searched the woods ….2 days later Nejame quits…. the 2 days after that Cindy is acting very weird at the presser for the new Caylee Foundation…. by themselves they are interesting but put the whole week together by what we know now it brings things into perspective……

And if it where not for Hoover turning over the tapes and admitting they were out there we would not have understood Cindy’s state of mind at the presser.

***

My perspective on Mark NeJame’s reasons for quitting are very different from yours. I doubt Mark NeJame even knew about those searches until after Caylee’s remains were found.

Here’s what happened that week.

On November 15 and 16, Jim Hoover and Dominic Casey searched the Suburban Drive woods and abandoned Gonzalez house.

On November 16, a photo of a child vaguely resembling Caylee Anthony was taken at a Florida mall in the morning. Two women who worked at the mall spotted the child and took a photo with a phone camera. They shared the photo with KidFinders Network.

On November 17, Dennis Milstead, founder and head of KidFinders Network, was confronted with evidence of his extensive past criminal activity (including impersonating a law enforcement officer and assault). He got physical with the cameraman during attempted interview.

On November 19, against the advice of Mark NeJame, Cindy gave an exclusive interview and tour of the house to Jessica D’Onofrio of Local 6 News. On the same day, George announced he was becoming a spokesman for KidFinders Network.

On November 20, Mark NeJame quit as representative of George and Cindy Anthony. He said his clients were not following his advice (no kidding given that he was hired to handle all public relations for them but they wouldn’t stop arranging interviews on their own). After Mark NeJame announced he was quitting, the Anthonys gave an interview to News 13 (this was Cindy’s silent interview). George said one of their gripes was that NeJame wasn’t willing to push authorities hard enough to investigate tips or leads.

On November 21, a group representing the family, The Help Find Caylee Search Team, released a picture of what they called a possible sighting of Caylee Anthony at the Florida Mall in Orlando on November 16. The Orange County Sheriff’s Office blasted the Anthonys after the release of that picture. OCSO said they were not looking for Caylee because they were confident she is dead.

*

And Hoover did not turn over the tapes. The FBI knocked on his door and took them from Hoover after getting a tip that Hoover had tapes of Dominic Casey searching the woods and that Hoover was shopping them around to national news organizations.

PS

Here are the Colonial High School class lists for the years 2000-2009. There is no one with the name Baez in any of those years with the first name Christina (or any variant such as Christine, Kristine, Kristina, etc.).

https://www.ocps.net/lc/southeast/hco/schoolinfo/alumni/Pages/2000-2009.aspx

Maura,

Thanks for this part:

And Hoover did not turn over the tapes. The FBI knocked on his door and took them from Hoover after getting a tip that Hoover had tapes of Dominic Casey searching the woods and that Hoover was shopping them around to national news organizations.

Because I never was straight as to whether he had really tried to sell them or just been accused of it.

When Leonard Padilla was hanging out near the corner of Sububan Drive after the remains were found, he said Hoover approached on December 17 and told Padilla he had some photos of the Anthonys and a video of that wooded area that he’d shot on November 15th, and wanted to sell them. Leonard said Hoover went away and came back with a videotape and let Leonard watch a few minutes. Leonard said he told Hoover to call LE but didn’t know if he would, so Leonard called Nick Savage.

The following day (December 18), OCSO and the FBI took from Jim Hoover two videotapes, his cell phone, still photos, and other papers relating to the videotaping of the wooded area where remains were found; photos had been taken in mid-November.

I would not be willing to take Leonard’s word for it, but last June, Kerry Sanders wrote an article about tips the news organization had received about the case including tips they were approached about.

This is a snip. The PI is definitely Hoover:

*A private investigator claimed he had footage proving Caylee’s body was moved into the woods where it was found months after her death. In a hushed conversation, he offered to sell it to us. I, of course wanted to see it first. That’s when he said he’d recorded over it. The tape now had pictures of his son in parade.

What then did he think we could do with the tape?

“I hear there’s a way to get the previously shot video that’s under the parade,” he said.

Ha! Well, maybe Chloe O’Brian can do that for Jack Bauer on the TV show “24,” but in the real world it just ain’t possible.

http://fieldnotes.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2009/06/16/1966357.aspx

I’ve been thinking –

By the time this case finally goes to trial – it is a good possibility that Caylee will have been dead longer than she was alive !

Oh…Nauseated, that’s such a sad thought.

» Maura said: { Apr 4, 2010 – 08:04:08 }
When Leonard Padilla was hanging out near the corner of Sububan Drive after the remains were found, he said Hoover approached on December 17 and told Padilla he had some photos of the Anthonys and a video of that wooded area that he’d shot on November 15th, and wanted to sell them. Leonard said Hoover went away and came back with a videotape and let Leonard watch a few minutes. Leonard said he told Hoover to call LE but didn’t know if he would, so Leonard called Nick Savage.

The following day (December 18), OCSO and the FBI took from Jim Hoover two videotapes, his cell phone, still photos, and other papers relating to the videotaping of the wooded area where remains were found; photos had been taken in mid-November.

I would not be willing to take Leonard’s word for it, but last June, Kerry Sanders wrote an article about tips the news organization had received about the case including tips they were approached about.

This is a snip. The PI is definitely Hoover:

*A private investigator claimed he had footage proving Caylee’s body was moved into the woods where it was found months after her death. In a hushed conversation, he offered to sell it to us. I, of course wanted to see it first. That’s when he said he’d recorded over it. The tape now had pictures of his son in parade.

What then did he think we could do with the tape?

“I hear there’s a way to get the previously shot video that’s under the parade,” he said.

Ha! Well, maybe Chloe O’Brian can do that for Jack Bauer on the TV show “24,” but in the real world it just ain’t possible.

http://fieldnotes.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2009/06/16/1966357.aspx

That was when the bizarre scenario played out when L. Baden watched the videos on National TV being played on You tube or something, IIRC

Maura said: { Apr 4, 2010 – 08:04:08 }

http://fieldnotes.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2009/06/16/1966357.aspx

Interesting link. I’d never heard or read this snippet about the duct tape before:

*The first word that a piece of duct tape was over Caylee’s mouth came from a neighbor who overheard a two-way radio conversation. Law enforcement sources confirmed it was true, so I reported the details. But had someone kept that detail off a two-way radio, it might have not been known publicly for weeks, or longer.

sue said: { Apr 4, 2010 – 10:04:11 }

That was when the bizarre scenario played out when L. Baden watched the videos on National TV being played on You tube or something, IIRC

***

No, that was Geraldo. He said the Anthonys knew Hoover was trying to sell the tapes, so they gave Geraldo a copy with permission to air it for free. But before he could, he said Hoover called Fox News and demanded a king’s ransom, so he did not show it to the public. Instead, he played the tape on a monitor that he and Linda Kenney Baden could see the tape playing but the viewers could not see.

..back to christina baez—–she DID speak out for her father jose…

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2008-07-24/news/caylee24_1_caylee-marie-anthony-find-caylee-casey-anthony

“Christina Baez, speaking on behalf of her father, defense attorney Jose Baez.”

…i do remember reading a few articles, claiming that christina and kc had “become friends” during her time out on bond, ( while hanging out at jose’s office).

..there were a number of “christina” stories, specualation etc—but she did appear to be working at/for the baez law firm in the summer ’08.

http://tinyurl.com/ycor5wz

..Baez was busy and could not be reached for comment this afternoon.( regarding jail video-visitation).

Christina Baez, a college student who is working in her father’s law office, said there may be information in the recordings that might obstruct the search for Caylee.

Baez wouldn’t detail what type of information that could be or where it could have been discussed, but said that is their concern.

“We don’t want anything to be released that may endanger our search for Caylee,” Christina Baez said.

I am watching Nancy Grace right now. Leonard Padilla must be on crack !! He says he is looking into recreating the water level at the scene of caylees remains, and bringing TES searches back to show him exactly where they searched. He states he will try to do this in June. How absolutely nuts, he cant recreate a hurricane and how can any searcher say 2 years later exactly where they searched. Hope he plans to pay for this out of his own pocket cause it is a total waste of money.

hey, all the smilies are gone, where did they go ?

Christina Baez must be quite a selfless unconditional loving gal.
Didn’t Daddy refuse to pay that child support until it was finally
garnished from his wages?

Is anyone televising this mornings hearing?

KC’s docket:
*************************************************
04/01/2010 Correspondence
04/05/2010 Motion to Compel
Production of Tape Recorded Statement of Joe Jordan
http://myclerk.myorangeclerk.com/CaseDetail.aspx?CaseID=6236234

Have not been on line at all since Thursday so I’m way behind on what’s going on this week. (I live in Indy so this has been a busy week for us here in NCAA city) Go Butler!!! Back to my question . . . has there been an indication they will release the “jail house” letters to the public????

Phantom Angel said: { Apr 5, 2010 – 07:04:37 }

Hi there Phantom Angel! I don’t know if it will be televised, I know it will be live streamed by OS and there is live chat as well, that might be fun!!!

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/caylee-anthony/os-casey-anthony-court-video-chat,0,7960169.htmlpage

Casey Anthony attorney blasted by Texas EquuSearch lawyer
By Sarah Lundy, Bianca Prieto and Amy L. Edwards, Orlando Sentinel
11:14 a.m. EDT, April 5, 2010

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/os-casey-anthony-court-hearing-20100405,0,810466,full.story

» EDRN said: { Apr 5, 2010 – 10:04:42 }
My solution to the problem of the TES documents…if Nejame is not allowing pens and paper, cameras etc….then have a Nejame employee in with Baez as he reviews the forms, have Baez tell the employee which page numbers he wants and have the employee write the page numbers down. Why are they making this so hard?

reposted from other thread

» EDRN said: { Apr 5, 2010 – 10:04:27 }
My take on the hearing….Baez is a horrible public speaker. If I had to listen to him for days on end as a juror, I would be bored to death. The “ummms” and “ahhhs” only prove to me that he is not prepared, or has a memory problem. I also find Mason hard to follow….whether it is his accent, or the microphone, I don’t know. But the different delivery styles of the prosecution and defense may make a huge difference in the way the jury perceives the evidence.

reposted from other thread

ellejay said: { Apr 3, 2010 – 03:04:52 }
..this is very weird, to me anyway.

..i knew james hoover had given a tip to a searcher from TES to go to the woods ( “but don’t use my name—-b/c i work for the anthony’s, and i’ll get fired” —-or some such thing.)

..i DIDN’T know that hoover signed up AS a volunteer FOR TES.

..on 11/08/08 ( just a week prior to the video tape creep show? or aug.11th/08?)

..i don’t recall in any of hoover’s stmts/depos that he mentions JOINING TES ??

http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/12379-12661-redacted.pdf

..hoovers volunteer registration form, page 214.
_____________________________________________________________________

I read Hoover’s December 2008 interview. He didn’t mention that he went to the TES command post on November 8th and filled out the volunteer registration form, and he didn’t mention the tip.

The male volunteer he spoke to about hearing from a young female in the Hopespring neighborhood who indicated she had seen Casey’s car backed up to the trail at the end of Suburban Drive near the school, before she was arrested in July, said he filled out a debrief forn regarding the conversation. Someone else who either works for TES or is a volunteer, I don’t recall which, said that she believes the debrief form has been searched for but never found. IMO, that tip should have been reported to LE.

I think Dominic Casey probably sent Hoover to the command post to try to get information that would confirm the area where Caylee’s body was had already been searched and/or to find out if TES was going to search the area again. When he was inteviewed in January 2009, he told investigators he knew on November 15th, that the area he went to search in had already been searched three times prior to that by EquuSearch. He said he believed three times prior, so he knew there was nothing there anyway.

He said Kiomarie’s statement that there was a hangout on Suburban Drive where they hung out hadn’t been verified, so he decided that he was going to go over there before going to the meet and greet to see if there was a hangout there.

When he was on his way to the office to meet Hoover so he could follow him down or whatever, he got a call from the psychic who told him that she had a vision of Caylee. She didn’t say Suburban Drive, but she described where Caylee was: In an area at the end of Hopespring Drive; she didn’t know what it is, but there’s a school nearby…

It seems like an odd coincidence to me that the psychic called Dominic Casey the same day he decided to go to the wooded area off Suburban Drive to check out Kiomarie’s statement about the hangout.

On November 8th , Hoover told the volunteer that he heard Casey’s car was backed up to the trail at the end of Suburban drive near the school, and on November15th, Dominic Casey said the psychic had a vision and mentioned the end of Hopespring Drive and a school was nearby. Something seems fishy to me.

I don’t know if November 15th was the first day Dominic Casey spoke to that psychic. IMO, prior to the 15th he probably told either her or Luke Phillips, who may have passed the information on to her, that he received a tip from someone in the Hopespring neighborhood that saw Casey’s car backed up to a trail at the end of the street. IMO, he may have mentioned prior to the 15th that he was going to a wooded area off Suburban Drive on the morning of the 15th, and that’s why the psychic called him between 7:00 and 8:00 in the morning to tell him about her vision.

So was there any outcome to the hearing? Didn’t catch all, just bits.

EDRN said: { Apr 5, 2010 – 10:04:42 }

My solution to the problem of the TES documents…if Nejame is not allowing pens and paper, cameras etc….then have a Nejame employee in with Baez as he reviews the forms, have Baez tell the employee which page numbers he wants and have the employee write the page numbers down. Why are they making this so hard?

***

The court order already stipulates that an employee of Mark NeJame will monitor anyone from the defense who reviews the TES volunteer files in NeJame’s office. And it was Judge Strickland (not Mark NeJame) who ordered that the TES volunteer records could not be removed or copied and that the reviewer could not take notes.

If the reviewer sees a volunteer record that the defense wants to add to the 32 disclosed volunteers, then that record will be set aside during the review so that Judge Strickland can take a look at a later time.

WSH said: { Apr 5, 2010 – 11:04:31 }
So was there any outcome to the hearing? Didn’t catch all, just bits.

**

Ruling is yet to come, possibly as early as later today.

I wish Bozo would just lose it and scream, LOOK, I KNOW THESE PEOPLE SEARCHED THERE! THEY COULDN’T HAVE FOUND THOSE REMAINS IF THEY WANTED TO! THEY WERE SO WELL HIDDEN WE HAD TO GO OUT THERE AND MOVE THINGS AROUND JUST SO KRONK WOULD FIND THEM ON HIS MONTHLY VISIST TO THIS SITE ON THE 11TH. CHEESEANDRICE GOD ALMIGHTY. WHAT’S WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE!

Fran, I, too, noticed all the smiles were gone. Casey was sitting there at first with her hands together on the table trying to look so attentive for the benefit of Mr. Mason. When Casey was left alone at the table she look concerned, and since she is the killer and knows exactly what went on and when, she probably is going through the documents on the table to see if she can tell who knows what. I did not see Cheney Mason speak to Casey or even look her way hardly. At one point he was preening his clothes. He appeared ALL about show today. And, he and Baez were definitely playing to the millions of viewers.

How can Baez argue that it is important to see docs, if he doesn’t even bother to look at docs?

Did the judge rule, or is this the typical situation where Strickland writes a response later?
I caught the very beginning and I couldn’t pay attention solely to what was going on, was J Jordan supposed too show up as a witness and then didn’t?

Sorry Maura

Missed your post while writing.

Thank you.
Any opinion on which way it appeared to be leaning? (by you or any talking heads)

Maura, we agree totally. You just put it into better words than I do.

I don’t know, but the judge seemed aggravated today and was relieved when the prosecuter got up to state that Baez had basically stipulated previously that TES was not an agent of the state and produced an afidavit or something to that effect.
I think the judge will say to the defense, try it my way as originally stated and mildly warn them that they may incur costs in the future for arguing the same points over and over. Baez had no witnesses to new info and silly downloaded photos with no witnesses to back them up. IMO

Maybe it is my coffee consumption, but everybody but the prosecution for the state (what is her name?) seemed on edge today. The gum jaws were really moving today.

I just don’t understand the problem here. If Conway had found something in those doc’s proving Caylee was not there I am sure he would have turned that over to the defense. Why is it so hard for Baez to go to the office and search through the doc’s? Has Nejame’s office put a time limit on him for how long he can view them? I doubt it.

Thanks Tob

MLR,

My question exactly…why is this so hard?

Correction and also asking again: was J Jordan supposed too (to) show up as a witness and then didn’t?

WSH,
Yes….Baez went to look in the hallway, than returned and said that Joe’s attorney told him that he would have his client there and apparently he didn’t show.

I agree. I do not understand the logic of the defense at all. Baez keeps stating he wants to keep his fishing strategy from the state, but they do not care what he thinks or what his vague theories are. The prosecution has a solid straightforward case of facts. He does not have much of a defense to work with and blathering this stuff in court isn’t helping.

Thanks EDRN

Will Jordan be held in contempt for not showing? Or was he not subpoenaed? Seems so weird. But what else is new?

I don’t think he was subpoenaed…I think his attorney was just going to have him there.

Why didn’t he subpoena (I looked up the spelling duh) Jordan? That really bugs me. What am I missing?

Who knows. You would think if Baez really wanted him there, he would have subpoenaed him. But, remember, Baez flies by the seat of his pants most days.

I heard that there wasn’t a sworn statement from Laura Buchanan. Has anyone determined if she is, in fact, a friend of C Anthony’s? If so, why search that area ,how did she know and why is she thought Caylee was alive, number one, and number two, why not swear to her statement and why didn’t the defense call her vs J Jordan if she was the one that uncovered Jordan?

Something is always fishy in Denmark with this case.

Did anyone else notice that for a brief period there was a young man sitting between two men in the last row on the Defense side (dark suit)? The build was right for JJ, but the gentleman left before the end.

It is possible that JJ did show, albeit briefly? I couldn’t get a good enough look at him to be positive. He was not there for long. BTW, I noted this on the live WESH broadcast. No time now, but I will try to get a time stamp later.

why is: why if

I wish Judge Stan could see the defense is trying to win this case with these motions. Every chance they can, they’re going to say, “The state is trying to KILL my client”. They think the more they say that publicly they might get to a juror or two. I wish every time they say that the prosecution would say, “We’re not trying to kill your client, we’re trying to put her to death via lethal injection and it’s not the same as putting three layers of duck tape over the mouth of a 2 year old to smother the life out of her.”

There were very few people in court today. George and Cindy were very close to Casey and they didn’t even get so much as a glance.
Who was the couple next to George?

BOZ

What I found irritating was the whole ” they’re trying to kill my client” crap has nothing to do with the reason they were there today, Nejame nor TES wants to kill anyone,
( well maybe JB)

Someone said that Baez will allow the jail letters to be released. That was big of him seeing as how he had no legal arguments to suppress them, only to delay for awhile.

I don’t know who the couple was but I do know that was Jim LIchtenstein — movie/TV producer — sitting right next to Cindy, as usual. Wonder how long it will be before we hear that their movie’s coming out. ‘Cause as far as I know, unless or until they’re found guilty of a crime, they can make all the money they want off of their dead granddaughter. For that matter, so can Casey! How wonderful for them. ….. not

I didn’t know about the Lichtenstein fellow. I wonder why he wouldn’t just send an intern or download the hearings. It seems awfully personal to show up for the hearings.
That is odd. If he makes the movie/tv show too pro Anthony, nobody will watch. And if he shows them in a less than complimentary light Cindy will put Dentyne up his nose, metaphorically speaking.

Tob,

I disagree. I think anyone who is following this case will watch/read whatever is put out there, if only to say “They are liars”. I think lots of people say they “won’t watch/read this, they won’t watch/read that etc”, do so with great intentions, but in the end they do what they said they wouldn’t out of morbid curiousity.

T2M, that’s exactly my point. Why was that even mentioned during this hearing? They are trying the case through these stupid azz motions/hearings.

EDRN

I do that, I watch everything on this case, just so I can compare what has been sworn to. I have seen them change their stories more times than I can count.

My thinking is, it will be aired whether I watch or not.

Jim Lichtenstein is there in the courtroom because he’s the producer for the NBC Today show.
He’s sitting next to Cindy because she does not want to be bothered by anyone else sitting next to her.

The couple sitting next to them are realtors in Orlando.
They also went on the cruise with Cindy and George.
Them being friends and realtors of the A’s I’m sure they are “helping” them with the foreclosure.
Giving them good advice, wink ~ wink.
The couple were also at the memorial service.
She played the piano and he sang a song.

emberl said: { Apr 5, 2010 – 12:04:10 }

That isn’t Jeanne Breault, is it? She is an FL realtor who assisted them with creating the foundation charity, IIRC?

She was brunette in all of her earlier avatar and LinkedIn pictures. She stills lists expertise in ‘Non-profit Management’ on her profile.

I know she was a prolific poster early on in the case.

EDRN
I’m sure you are right. But a I’m a Good Anthony movie would be boring. This story grips us because they are strange, not nice or sympathetic as much as we kept hoping they would be. Caylee’s memory wants us (total strangers) to avenge her death with at least prison time for someone.
The live relatives freak us out a little. On the face of it at the beginning was a normal suburban family with a stolen child. A nurse and retired policeman grandparents, attractive young professional mom, adorable baby reading a picture book with great grandpa. That image went away. And it is fascinating.

I agree a good Anthony movie may be boring, but we would all watch it to see how it dovetails to the image we have all built up in our minds. We would be yelling at the TV….THATS NOT TRUE! We would attribute it all to media spin and Cindy’s need to be seen in a good light by the public. But, we may learn something, even it it directly contradicts what we think. Maybe Georges family will throw out a tidbit that we didn’t know, since they have been so quiet thus far. What I am trying to say, is we will watch, no matter what is shown, if only to be able to contradict what we saw.

It is just us. Everyone else is watching Tiger. lol

lol…Don’t care about Tiger, his wife, his women, his affairs or his golf…..another waste of time.

Previous hearing, the court clerk announced a warning if you are chewing gum, remove it, and suggested the bin outside in the hallway.

This morning, notice how close HOLLY BRISTOW sat to the defense, over on the far right of the camera view and probably within hearing distance of the defense table. As the sound was off in the pre-hearing minutes, camera on the defense table, this FoxNews reporter was noticeably chewing gum, and a moment before the Judge entered and everyone rose, Holly blew a BUBBLE with her gum!!

Will the judge notice that on the replay?? Imagine– chewing with a closed mouth might be less rude, chewing with an open mouth is a Cindy thing, now blowing bubbles with bubble gum, is for the fav. Anthony team reporter, Holly Bristow.

Baez “Why is everyone afraid of uncovering the truth in this case”

In the famous words of jack Nicholson “You can’t handle the truth” should have been Nejame’s response.

Tob,

I have seen on other blogs, posters saying they won’t watch xxxx station, won’t buy products from yyyyy advertisers, and write all these emails to stations, advertisers etc regarding stories that have aired. Do you really think that the stations and advertisers care?

I saw Chat Lunatique was going to quit blogging for awhile. That is too bad.

Yes the gum chewing was over the top today. What gives with that? I don’t understand the disrespect to a court at all.

Holly begins to blow her Double Bubble at 5:02 mark on the WFTV raw video 1, she’s probably intent on what she might hear from the defense as they huddle and Casey holds the mic closed. http://www.wftv.com/video/23056801/index.html

Tob, maybe it’s a support thing for the Anthony’s, maybe Cindy shared out in the hallway!!

Yes, it’s disrespectful, but what kind of reporter is Holly Bristow, as we know she did the George and Cindy interview in Fox studios in November 2008, in which the A’s (George) claimed that law enforcement was withholding information, not allowing he and Cindy, the grandparents of Caylee, to view the video tape of the airport, with the child claimed to be Caylee. Holly repeated and regurgitated this line, yet she didn’t check out the facts, the much earlier interviews in which the Anthony’s learned of the investigation done to find these people and the little girl, they told them they saw her in person, it was NOT Caylee.

Dr. Lillian Glass talked about the gum chewing of the A’s in their disrespect for the deposition, then they chewed gum in court, now it’s advanced to a reporter blowing big white bubbles out of her mouth as she sits obviously, right in the camera view. (she’s a pro, she knows what the front of a lens looks like!!! sheesh– disrespecting the court, disrespecting Caylee, but obviously not disrespecting George nor Cindy, as they are chewers too.

No, I don’t think they care on an emotional level. But I am constantly amazed at how quick any media and product makers evolve a story. I once wrote a letter to a balloon company. I asked that they please pass on my info to quality control, but to not respond to my letter as it was over a $1.30 pack of balloons and any cost incurred responding was not worth spending any more money.

The president of the company send me a three page letter thanking me for taking the time. And $5.00. Sure shocked the heck out of me. You never know what works.

I haven’t eaten a Subway product for 18 years because of an incident, and in court they made it very clear they could care less and wouldn’t change their policy no matter what the public thought. I was being beaten in a Subway and the manager refused to call 911 for me. It is in their manual for employees to never get involved in criminal matters in their store. Even when there are thugs present beating on strangers who just happened to stop in for a coffee to go.

I also never had a grape for 25 yrs when I was young. My mom was a good boycotter. lol

Calling 911 is their duty as a citizen. Some lawyer probably advised the company on that policy.

Changing topic, noticed Marinade Dave has set his blog to private. Maybe it’s a temporary thing, hope so.

That’s ok, the judge called the manager mr. useless constantly during the trial that put his little friends away for 3 yrs.

» Kleat said: { Apr 5, 2010 – 01:04:46 }

Changing topic, noticed Marinade Dave has set his blog to private. Maybe it’s a temporary thing, hope so.

I noticed that too but there was something weird going on over there with some commenters and other bloggers

I thought Dave was just blocking me, lol. I am waiting for an account ok and clearance from freepress or someone.

Anyone catch Mason casually[overtly] thumbing through the Prosecutions paperwork?
At the end of the hearing, some long haired guy came over and motioned for Mason to move away….Now Mason trying on the slick hat.lmao :}

He constantly writes articles about being hounded by weirdos. Too bad I enjoy his writing.

Sometimes my mind has these bizarre questions that do not directly relate to the case, but peripherally do. I ask my hubsand, who sighs, rolls his eyes, and says “I don’t know, I don’t care” so I am relagated to asking them here. So if them seem odd, no fear, that is just my mind working overtime.

Kate, I did not notice that. That’s not too professional. I guess if you have not much of a case, you take what you can get.

them=they

I tried to get on Marinade Dave’s site this morning too. I “signed” up for the wordpress but it only takes you to a blog from him from like 2005 not the current blog on the Anthony case. I know he reads here, so “What’s up with that Dave”. You’ll be missed until we can figure out where you went.

Valhall – Don’t you feel that Baez is completely gone round the bend and Judge Strickland should sanction him. He is wasting so much of everyone’s time and money.

Also, I can’t find the hearing this morning anywhere, on video, other than WFTV and my work filters block them. Anyone can help me please???
THANKS IN ADVANCE

Join the club EDRN, lol.

LOL PAM-go home!

Did anyone see Dave at the hearing this morning? He usually tries to go.

Tob:

JMO, but since today’s hearing was already [months ago]addressed, I sure hope that JS reiterates what was already ruled/decided=Get off your derriere and GET to WORK!

Pamela, did you try the Orlando Sentinel website? I think they have it there.

I think myfoxorlando also has it. Those pesky work cyber police.

EDRN me too, but the Judge looked genuinely vague on what was decided during the August hearing. Who knows, they all looked tired and on edge. It is hard coming back from a long holiday weekend.

I think the judge was biting his tongue to keep from lashing out at Baez. It’s a wonder we didn’t see blood seeping from his mouth….lol

Wish I could go home, LOL. We have an open system for a very large insurance company (national) so they filter us to death

You could read soooo many things in the facial expressions of Judge Strickland when Baez was talking/(blah, blah, blah). IMO, those were looks of how ridiculous and inept he thinks JB is and seemed to be almost intolerant of him.

EDRN:

VICTIM…Baez obviously got the memo!!!
Watched the playback @ work with tons of buffering, but the the tried and true smarmy
surfaced…lol The truth Baez quips…..isn’t that one for the books.

I’m not a big fan of ‘reading’ people’s thoughts or motives from their relatively neutral facial features, but even I have to admit the Judge looked quite annoyed by some of Mr. Baez’s statements.

I didn’t catch the whole discussion, but am I wrong in thinking Mr. Baez seemed to be saying at one point that he couldn’t make heads or tails of some documents because they weren’t in order? If my 17 year old said that about school papers, I’d tell him to PUT them in order and get on with it! Again, I didn’t quite catch it. Anyone know what I’m talking about?

Hi, All! So, who was the black-haired female dressed in black, over at the Defense side? Is that this Holly Bristow (?) person? And I didn’t see Dave, either, today at the hearing that I noticed, although the camera didn’t seem to show much of the Pro side of the room…

So, again, when given a chance, Casey didn’t even look over at her parents- huh…

George is chewing gum now too

Yes, Pond, you’re right. He said they were in no particular order. I guess Jose and his minions are incapable of putting pages in proper order! Is anyone surprised?? lol

Yes I caught that Pondering.
It wasn’t that many pages and it is not TES’s job to put together a make believe SODDI theory for him. As with the jail letters, he needed 2 weeks to read them and I volunteered my services, I offer them again. Jeez he has a hard time. The whiner.

I have a pretty good idea why Marinada Dave shut down his blog.
But I don’t know if Valhal is okay with me posting the reasons why.

I’ll leave it at that.

PonderingWhy:

You and everyone recognizes total incompetence… intentional. Could be the grey area on appeal issues? Having to revisit motions are literally wasting valuable time/taxpayers dime…. Baez actions deservedly command demotion.

on the 2nd video of the hearing on WFTV, about 15:15 in Casey makes a motion as to getting up from her chair. She clearly asks Baez “Are we done yet/now?” and her tells her “No not yet, Don’t go anywhere”. She then stifles a grin/giggle”.

Where the hell did he think she was going to go?

» emberl said: { Apr 5, 2010 – 02:04:58 }

I have a pretty good idea why Marinada Dave shut down his blog.
But I don’t know if Valhal is okay with me posting the reasons why.

He had written he was being threatened, nothing happened I hope

TRIALS & TRIBULATIONS
SPROCKET & COMPANY IN DEPTH, TRUE CRIME REPORTING
SUNDAY, AUGUST 23, 2009
Casey Anthony: August 21 Hearing Report
http://sprocket-trials.blogspot.com/2009/08/casey-anthony-august-21-hearing-report.html
Snip
“California attorney Todd Macaluso came right out and said:
As Your Honor knows, the body of Caylee Marie Anthony was found very close to the Anthony home, and the body was found in a wooded area that if one were to search for a missing child, this is the first place you would go search. There is substantial evidence that we’ve discovered, and that’s been set forth in our brief, Your Honor, that the body or the remains of Caylee Anthony were placed there after Casey Anthony was locked up in the Orange County Correctional Facility. There is substantial evidence, and that proves, Your Honor, her innocence. That’s exculpatory evidence, it proves that somebody else placed the remains in the area where it was ultimately found.”
**********************************************

I wish Silver or Maura could help me out here… are lawyers allowed to state their defendant’s innocence and then NOT to BACK UP their statements? This really boggles my mind. What are FL laws? I believe JB did it again in the hearing today. It seems to me JB is using the hearings to cause reasonable doubt in potential jurors mind, of course I could be wrong. I am sorry if this issue was discussed though.
Thanks a lot.

Talk about teases Emberl! I know he has had trouble with strange characters trying to mess up his blog life. I wish there was a way to get them to stop. It is not fun to have to spend your time reaping what fruitcakes sow.

Unless it is his family. I hope everyone is ok.

Holly Bristow= black haired woman. Lets be clear, she has picked up a very bad habit…lol

If everyone would conduct themselves with dignity and maturity the blog world would be even better than it is already.

bye ya’all. still have 2 hours at the job.

What do you all make of the email from someone(?) to LE that said there was no body in the wooded area? But LE ignored it, and it was never checked out or given to the defense? I can’t remember when he said it was sent. It’s been a long time though.

TY, Kate.

Anyone know if Ms. Bristow (?) is from NYC? ‘Cuz I know whenever I visit NY packing’s easy- just bring black!

The other thing that stunned me was when Mr. Baez complained about “a lawyer who insters himself into this case” and tries to take issues to the media.

HUH? What’s THAT you say about the kettle, Mr. Pot?

Very unpleasant that ‘they’re trying to kill Miss Anthony and we’re trying to save her life” but the last time I looked she wasn’t sitting there fighting for her life for no reason.

Just sayin’.

insers=inserts

Sorry,OT, but is anyone having trouble with WordPress today?

And while I’m ranting, what sort of attorney shows up with evidence pictures and only has one copy? “Yeah, Judge, I’ll take that back. It’s my only copy.”

HUH?

*shakes head, despairs for the world*

MLR said: { Apr 5, 2010 – 12:04:08 }
I just don’t understand the problem here. If Conway had found something in those doc’s proving Caylee was not there I am sure he would have turned that over to the defense. Why is it so hard for Baez to go to the office and search through the doc’s? Has Nejame’s office put a time limit on him for how long he can view them? I doubt it.

****

Mark NeJame said Brad Conway, Linda Drane Burdick, and an independent TES volunteer had visited NeJame’s office and separately examined the records of the 4,000 TES volunteer Caylee searchers. Between the three of them, they flagged a total of 32 searchers whose TES records indicated they had searched in the area of the woods where Caylee’s remains were found on December 11.

In Judge Strickland’s August 27 ruling, he said the records of those 32 searchers who had been positively identified as east Suburban Drive searchers were to be copied and immediately disclosed to the defense and state. The records for the remaining TES Caylee searchers out of approximately 4,000 total TES Caylee searchers were to be made available to the defense for review in Mark NeJame’s office at mutually convenient times. Strickland further said the defense could not take notes of the volunteer records nor make copies of the records, but if, in reviewing a record, the defense identified another searcher who was at or near the site of the remains, the defense could ask Strickland to review the record in camera and Strickland would decide whether the additional record would be added to the original 32. Strickland also said a member of NeJame’s firm was to be appointed at minimal and reasonable cost to monitor the records review and that the defense would pay for the monitor.

I do believe Judge Strickland, in ruling that the defense could only review the records in the presence of a monitor, was trying to be sensitive to a potential “chilling effect” on volunteerism while granting the defense the chance to review the records to ensure no other official TES Suburban Drive searchers had been overlooked.

What Baez is attempting to argue now is that under those conditions, the defense has no means to determine if any of those additional 4,000 TES were, like Laura Buchanan, volunteers who traveled to Orlando to participate in the TES-sponsored search for Caylee and while in town, independently searched the wooded area on east Suburban Drive. Since Laura Buchanan’s TES-directed searches were not on east Suburban Drive, there is no mention on her TES volunteer records that she had gone to Suburban Drive. Therefore, if she had not come forward, the defense would not have been able to identify her as a Suburban Drive searcher just by reviewing the records in Mark NeJame’s office.

But if the defense had permission to copy the records in NeJame’s office or make notes of each searcher’s name and telephone numbers, the defense could call each one to 1) make sure the TES records are accurate regarding the locations that the volunteer searched, and 2) ask if the searcher had ever independently gone to Suburban Drive to search for Caylee or knew anyone who had.

The reality is that the defense could be correct that there are more volunteers like Laura Buchanan in the records in Mark NeJame’s office – people who came to town and participated in a TES search in an area other than Suburban Drive but who also went on their own to Suburban Drive while they were in Orlando. Those people might be keeping quiet because they don’t want the media scrutiny, but if called and asked, they would provide an honest account of their searches on Suburban Drive.

That’s why the defense is not satisfied with the current order to review the records but not copy them or take notes. Looking at the issue objectively, I think the defense has an excellent argument. From the point-of-view of the 4,000 TES volunteers, there are two issues:

1. Giving the defense the ability to contact them (the defense already has the court’s permission to review all the personal information provided on the volunteer application)

2. Giving the public access to the all the personal information provided on the volunteer application.

I didn’t watch today’s hearing (I’m waiting for someone to put up the raw video), but from the media reports, Mark NeJame indicated that the volunteers are concerned about the second issue – letting people like YOU AND ME see all their personal information (name, age, address, employment, car, health issues, etc.). The issue causing anxiety for the volunteers is that if the records are disclosed to the defense and state (copies given to the defense and state), they will become part of the official case record, and at that point, those TES records become public and are subject to the Sunshine Laws.

The first issue – allowing the defense to contact them to double-check the accuracy of the TES records and ask if they made any independent trips to Suburban Drive – is not an issue that any volunteer has a legal argument to prevent.

Moreover, by the time TES arrived in Orlando and began searching for Caylee, which was the very end of August, everyone who ultimately volunteered to participate in a TES search was well-aware of the exceptionally high media scrutiny this case was getting and no doubt had been following the case closely. There’s no other way to explain why hundreds of people traveled to Orlando, Florida from out-of-state to participate in the TES searches.

The volunteers, just as a common sense argument, knew that if they were part of a search team that found Caylee’s remains, they would be interviewed by LE and expected to testify at a trial. Unless they were stupid, they would have known that reporters would be knocking themselves out trying to get interviews. Intelligent people would also have anticipated that the defense might want to talk to them.

The first day of TES searching, on August 29, was four days after the State Attorney’s Office had released the first 450 pages of discovery, which included numerous LE witness interviews. So TES volunteers would have known by news reports that transcripts of witness interviews would be made public.

No expectations of privacy were given to TES volunteers by TES or anyone else. The TES volunteer application states the personal information provided would become the property of TES. There is nothing in the disclaimer that the records would never be made public or would not be shared with any other organization.

And the TES searches were widely covered by the media. TV news vans and cameramen were all over the TES command center. Cameramen, reporters, and still photographers followed the searchers around to various search areas and filmed or photographed them as they searched and interviewed them afterwards.

In other words, the argument that TES volunteers had expectations of privacy is laughably weak.

And if you consider that 1,500 pages of Crimeline tips (with no names, addresses, phone numbers, and email addresses) were released to the public in October 2008, the TES argument for privacy collapses altogether because Crimeline tipsters ARE promised anonymity but that did not prevent their records from being released by dint of Florida’s very liberal open records law. IMO, there is real potential for a costly chilling effect in the release of the Crimeline tips (making people reluctant to call Crimeline with information that could help solve a crime).

By contrast, there is little potential for a future chilling effect on search volunteerism should the remaining TES volunteer records be disclosed. Few states have open records laws as liberal as Florida, so volunteers in other states won’t ever have to worry about the public seeing their volunteer applications. And while Florida law allows the public to see TES volunteer applications, it’s only in rare, extraordinarily high-profile cases like this one that members of the media and public go to the effort and expense to get those records from the Clerk of Court.

And you know what else? If the judge does rule to disclose those TES records to the defense, the media won’t be forced to get them and put them up on their websites for us to download. None of the media outlets that release discovery provided the April 2009 cell phone discovery to the public. A few people following the case do have those records, but that’s because a private citizen went to the Orange County Clerk of Court to get the discovery and then shared it with a few other people.

I don’t know how Judge Strickland will rule. Baez is a bumbling idiot IMO because I do think he has a strong argument for full disclosure but he didn’t make a good argument in his motion. And from what I’ve read, he didn’t make a good argument at today’s hearing. But just in terms of legal argument/rationale, I think the defense has a much, much stronger argument for getting full copies of the records than TES has for not allowing the defense to have copies.

Oh, sorry I just read Gracie’s post. nevermind.

gracie34 said: { Apr 5, 2010 – 02:04:41 }

Where the hell did he think she was going to go?

Prolly afraid she’d jump up and go straight to Fusion!

Pond…to add my rant to yours…..who shows up in court without having ALL his ducks in a row….? He should not have to search thru his papers to find things. He should have everything at his fingertips and most of it (I would think) committed to memory. I could understand at trial when things change quickly, but he was only arguing one single point.

FRG said: { Apr 5, 2010 – 02:04:47 }

I wish Silver or Maura could help me out here… are lawyers allowed to state their defendant’s innocence and then NOT to BACK UP their statements? This really boggles my mind. What are FL laws? I believe JB did it again in the hearing today. It seems to me JB is using the hearings to cause reasonable doubt in potential jurors mind, of course I could be wrong. I am sorry if this issue was discussed though.
Thanks a lot.

***

Todd Macaluso’s August 21 hearing statement has been discussed at length on this website. I’m sorry, but I don’t feel like rewriting everything I’ve already said on the subject. My comments and opinions are in the back threads.

Maura said: { Apr 5, 2010 – 03:04:09 }

Thanks Maura anyway.

I think the judge said something today along the lines of the defense being entitled to disclosure, but if the info Baez wants is not going to be used by the state it was a different matter. And that Baez cannot add people or documents to the states list.

Because it is a private company, not a government agency TES only has to hand over what the judge says in a manner the judge approves. He may change his parameters, but I think he already looked at case law last year when he set them. And he did not appear impressed that Baez has not even gone to look at the records. JMHO.

I would like to way in on the TES volunteers. I was one of them, but not in the Suburban drive local. It seemed to me they were using more qualified searchers closer to the home. I would be livid though if my name got dragged into this just because as a mother, I tried to help find Caylee and give her and the family peace. Most of the ones coming out of the woodwork, and I feel Joseph Jordon, is one of them who saw a little limelight, and tried to blog about his “inside knowledge” and it’s come back to bite his ass. So, he and the “other’s” deserve whatever the defense throws at them. But for the other innocent people who tried to search that area and are now going to need lawyers and the whole mess of being thrown into this case, well, I agree with Maura, it will have a chilling effect on volunteer’s in the future. When you sign up, they do discuss the possibilities of finding something of evidence and the impact on your life. But this is ridiculous, the searcher’s not trying to gain fame or favor have all agreed that the area was under water. Tim Miller has said they buried an ATV in water there. IT WAS UNDER WATER PEOPLE. And the few quacks like Buchanan and Joy Wray who say otherwise or just that. Jordon blogged without thinking about LE reading it and it coming back at him, he also taped a conversation with a defense PI. There is no way he didn’t know that is illegal, anyone who has the slightest bit of common sense knows no matter what for, you can’t tape a private conversation without the other person’s knowledge, with a few loophole exceptions that I am not aware of but am sure someone can explain.
I want Baez sanctioned, and then run out of tail on his stupid bumbling butt. Where is the Florida Bar when we need them?

» Maura said: { Apr 5, 2010 – 02:04:18 }

All good points Maura. I can’t imagine Baez calling all of these witnesses though. because he is so lazy. You would at least think that he could have stepped into the office to at least look at records prior.

I do not live in Fl. But after this case with all the SODDI flying everywhere, I would seriously think twice about volunteering to search. It is not simply about phone numbers, etc. that a lot of these people may be concerned with, but rather with whatever kind of personal dirt the defense can dig up on them like Roy Kronk. Whether or not info is released before trial, during trial innocent people may have to go to the expense of hiring an attorney (not cheap), and having suspicions tossed in their direction. This can be life altering. Yes, they knew that they weren’t subject to absolute privacy, but at that point of the search, they also didn’t know what direction and to what extent the defense would go in to make everyone else look dirty. That part is chilling. I’d hate to be the guy that owns a plumbing supply warehouse who had kinky rendezvous with his wife or girlfriend that also searched for Caylee Anthony.

Sorry.My last post looks like it was written by an alien from another planet.It must be a chocolate hang over garbling my words and thoughts.

Wsh…made perfect sense to me. What does that say about me? I had NO chocolate!

Pamela said: { Apr 5, 2010 – 03:04:18 }

That’s really nice of you to have help to search for little Caylee. I understand how it will impact in the future to gather volunteers to search for missing people. I felt it was not fair when Judge Strickland decided to release the 32 volunteers records to the defense, that’s the only thing it bothers me about JS’s rulings. It seems to me JB have no idea what he is searching for, it’s like defense is in a fishing expedition. How can Joe Jordan be sure he was at the exact area where Caylee’s remains were ultimately found or anybody for that matter? It blows my mind. That area looks like all the same. This is so sick. I believe you that area was under water Pamela. it’s just a defense game “smoke and mirrors”. It’s just the way I see it.

OK, thanks for searching Pamela. Now, everyone run out and get a fake ID for the next search.

Boz – Can you explain your comment please?

04/05/2010 Motion to Compel
Production of Tape Recorded Statement of Joe Jordan
04/05/2010 Motion
for Transcription
04/05/2010 Court Minutes
on Motion to Modify Courts Order for Documents in Possession of Texas Equusearch
04/05/2010 Order Denying
Motion to Modify the Courts Order on Defendants Application for Subpoena Duces Tecum for Documents in the Possession of Texas Equusearch
04/05/2010 Correspondence
http://myclerk.myorangeclerk.com/CaseDetail.aspx?CaseID=6236234

O/T – » Darnudes said: { Jan 15, 2010 – 05:01:40 }

» lily said: { Jan 15, 2010 – 04:01:09 }
Ugh – PDF of the latest letter to Judge Strickland from “a concerned citizen” who also happens to be a scientist . . .

Val? is this you? LOL (just kidding)

http://www.wftv.com/pdf/22246396/detail.html
************************************************

Oh my, can you believe this letter?

Sounds like a very familiar poster to me, not on this website though.

I went back and reread this letter, it refers to the same ZFG that ME & RS were chatting up on myspace.It we sent to JS in December 2009, right around the time ME states she she had her “fight” with Cindy. Could this have been written by RS & ME?

Yes Pamela, I am sincerely thanking you for searching for little Caylee.

Fake ID’s if we ever volunteer for anything again.

Adding to my last post.

What if you are a NYer who happens to live next to a Gonzales or Zenaida and you searched for Caylee?

There is no doubt that NeJame is protecting Tim Miller. If all of those records are released, it will damage TES in terms of the numbers of people that will sign up to volunteer for that organization. That could hurt , or even potentially end the operations of TES in the future.

Sorry, sometimes it’s hard to get ones meaning without knowing them. I wasn’t looking for thanks, just pointing out, well, I wouldn’t want the defense diggin thru my closet, but I also knew that I was searching for a dead child in the woods, and if our group found Caylee or evidence, we would be involved in the trial. It was explained up front to us. But this “Defense” team is scary in the ways the put volumes of disinformation out there, discredit everyone they can, and are never held accountable. I feel sorry for some of those searchers who are now going to get more than they bargained for.

Can you imagine what would happen if one of those searchers is a convicted pedophile.

Oh man, Boz. I wouldn’t even want to think like that!

Shhhhhhhh Boz….Next thing you know Baez will want to run a sex offender check on all 4,000 searchers.

Boz says 04/05 3:04PM
Could be Boz –

I’m sure they aren’t interested in searching for a child that’s been missing for 30 days. We weren’t searching for Caylee camping. But you never know, there are a lot of wierdo’s already in this case, wouldn’t surprise me if a pedophile slipped in.

Baez does not want to call these people to confirm where they were. He will try to run computer background checks on each and every one if he gets full copies. He won’t care where they searched. Joy Wray will say she saw them at the dump site. (or someone else will)

He is not looking for people who searched the site , he is looking for potential perps. When he is on TV, he could implore searchers who were in the area to contact his office. Why hasn’t he ever done that? Because he knows, as everyone else does, that he’s looking for someone else to blame, not about asking for water levels or whether the body was there or not when people searched.

Orlando Sentinel Posting Strickland’s decision -

(After listening to two attorneys bicker about access to records earlier today, Orange County Circuit Court Judge Stan Strickland this afternoon ordered Casey Anthony’s defense team to look at records that have been available to them for seven months.

Strickland today denied a request by the defense for all records from Texas EquuSearch, a volunteer group whose members looked for missing Caylee Marie Anthony in 2008.

However, Strickland ordered the defense go through records of 32 searchers, records that have been available since late August in a local attorney’s office.

If the defense needs access to more records, it is free to request those, Strickland said in a three-page ruling.)

Now if he would just physically slap Baez, I’d be good for the day. LOL

I loved during the hearing when Bozo says “materialistically” or something like that and Judge Stan looks up quickly at Bozo almost saying “is that a word?”

» gracie34 said: { Apr 5, 2010 – 03:04:06 }

That one is old. I think Kleat kind of had it figured out who it was on BOC some time ago.

Pamela said: { Apr 5, 2010 – 03:04:22 }

I think most of the seachers feel as you do, sure if they found the body they could expect to be contacted by the State and the Defense, but I see no reason for anyone who did NOT find the body to be subject to what the Defense has done to other people in this case. scary really, sorry you and others have had to worry about this,

WESH has reported the Judge ruled in fvaor of TES, no more searcher info for the defnse.

Since the Judge has already ruled on this, doesn’t everyone have to follow the terms set out in his ruling, or are Baez and Company hoping the Judge will issue a new ruling since they didn’t like the terms of the first one?

It does seem to me TES does not have an obligation to turn over names of people who searched on their own. Isn’t it the obligation of those searchers to make themselves and the location they searched known (IF they so choose)? Otherwise, it assumes TES is responsible for KNOWING where ‘splinter groups’ searched, when they searched, and what they found, or did not find.

If they were not searching in the general location where the body was found (Suburban Drive as opposed to Jay Blanchard Park), their names are irrelevant and could only be desired to point fingers at someone other than Casey Anthony. It doesn’t seem logical that TES would be required to turn over names of those who have no bearing on the case because they were not involved in the search area where little Caylee was found.

T2M said: { Apr 5, 2010 – 03:04:37 }
Thanks, but I don’t worry, I would love to tell, in open court, exactly what I think about Baez and et el. That is why WSH is so Right On, they don’t want me, they want some crackpot who’ll say whatever they want to gain a little fame and 2 minutes of public attention. Then the SAO will go after the losers who involve themselves and make crap up and Baez will be long gone.

» Pamela said: { Apr 5, 2010 – 03:04:40 }

Orlando Sentinel Posting Strickland’s decision -

(After listening to two attorneys bicker about access to records earlier today, Orange County Circuit Court Judge Stan Strickland this afternoon ordered Casey Anthony’s defense team to look at records that have been available to them for seven months.

Excellent ruling.

Greetings and salutations, all! Pamela: your last comment is ringing so true! Given the Baez school of defense mechanisms, any and all persons involved in any search seem to be fair game for a wobbly defense atty. Hopefully, the jury will show the folly of this technique and soon to ANY esquire trying this bogus routine! A point to ponder: searchers who are professionals in LE or ancillary fields (CSI, FD, ME, S &R ) will be tagged as folks who spiked the crime scene with inculpatory evidence for the state!
On the other hand: THANKS to ALL who help ANYONE needing a hand, yep we should be watching out for each other!

» Boz said: { Apr 5, 2010 – 03:04:31 }

I loved during the hearing when Bozo says “materialistically” or something like that and Judge Stan looks up quickly at Bozo almost saying “is that a word?”

Reminds me of my Cousin Vinny…

Vinny Gambini: It is possible that the two yutes…
Judge Chamberlain Haller: …Ah, the two what? Uh… uh, what was that word?
Vinny Gambini: Uh… what word?
Judge Chamberlain Haller: Two what?
Vinny Gambini: What?
Judge Chamberlain Haller: Uh… did you say ‘yutes’?
Vinny Gambini: Yeah, two yutes.
Judge Chamberlain Haller: What is a yute?

Score one for the good guys! But it’s still very confusing to me. Didn’t Judge S already tell the defense team to do this? So, why waste everyone’s time and money this morning when this had already been asked and answered?

Valhall, did you notice at the end of the hearing, principal players in chambers with the judge returned, Mr. Ashton took on the Vinny role.

“Court is adjourned!” said Ashton to those left to listen– adding “I always wanted to say that!”. Turning to Judge Holler—errr– Strickland, “We don’t need you”!

Good thing Judge Strickland was in a good mood, or off to jail for contempt just like Vinny, in the paddy wagon for him, along with Ms. Casey!

Could the defense be setting up an ‘appeal’ of J.S’s rulings for future?

Pam, where did you see the ruling?

Having read the order, Judge Strickland is playing more than fair. What it seems the defense wants, is not what it’s asking for at all. It is asking to search for people who might be targetted for some past bad acts, maybe some people who might have connections to seriously disgruntled ex-’s, not that they were ever in the area of Suburban, but dragged through the mud just as Roy Kronk was. The defense wants to check everyone out, everyone at risk of embarrassment or worse.

Linda, here’s one link:
http://www.wftv.com/pdf/23059303/detail.html

» Kleat said: { Apr 5, 2010 – 04:04:33 }

Exactly

WSH, yeah, not that any of that dig dig dig dig work would come into evidence at trial, it would be very useful to trash people in the media, as this defense has done to play/poison/persuade the jury pool for future use. Look!! X number of people who had been accused of some problem in the marriage, violence, didn’t care for their child, disgruntled ex’ complaints, all searchers for Caylee, all could be involved!!!

It’s a dirty business, getting this woman off!! Casey didn’t have the tender care and support of Mama Morton at the table. The two men seemed quite distant, so did Casey, towards them.

Ms. Drane-Burdick once again met expectations, she is no push over for an old sly fox of a hearing-aid wearing old guy lawyer who has been known to enjoy a drink then drive! She wasn’t taking any of his guff or over-talking.

» Kleat said: { Apr 5, 2010 – 04:04:07 }

Kleat

Who was the “scientist” that wrote to the judge a while back? Did ou figure out who it was on BOC? It might have been Val?

kleat i hardly ever post but i love your superb posts here and on blink keep up the great work! your right about Linda she knows what’s she is doing…just like telling biaazz he is flat out wrong today in the hearing after he always accusses the state of their so called ” evil ” deeds.

Very funny. What happened to the emoticons?

I believe I know the reasons why JB wants to copy all of TES papers… so he can mail them to Lyon’s students so they can do his job. IMO

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/33021672/Casey–Anthony-court-hearing-5April2010-DENIED

Corrections Guard Relieved Of Duty:
http://www.docstoc.com/docs/32515221/Casey-Anthony-corrections-guard-relieved-of-duty

» WSH said: { Apr 5, 2010 – 04:04:58 }

» Kleat said: { Apr 5, 2010 – 04:04:07 }

Kleat

Who was the “scientist” that wrote to the judge a while back? Did ou figure out who it was on BOC? It might have been Val?

_________________________________________________________________________________

If you read that letter then you know it wasn’t Val. It is pretty much a letter in defense of Casey.

» gracie34 said: { Apr 5, 2010 – 04:04:56 }

I meant WAS IT VAL WHO FIGURED OUT WHO IT WAS THAT WROTE THE LETTER

» WSH said: { Apr 5, 2010 – 04:04:50 }

Sorry WSH, I have been rereading old threads and I haven’t found that part yet

That’s okay. I am frustrated that I am kind of an imbecile in communicating today. Think I should just read…duh

@WSH….no worries, there is just so much junk out there and it’s hard to weed through. Thank goodness for Val and Maura. Maybe we can have Maurapedia added to the dictionary,lol

Melissa just answered Val’s emailed questions on the Just for Chat thread

Judge denies defense motion, I also posted this on the chat.

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/33021672/Casey–Anthony-court-hearing-5April2010-DENIED

Sorry seemeatthebeach, I didn’t see your post

Kleat, you are absolutely right about the defense’s motives for wanting the TES records. To go on a fishing expedition to see whose life/lives they can turn upside down in an effort to free this murderer! I am impressed with the way Judge Strickland has handled this case so far.

Kleat said: { Apr 5, 2010 – 04:04:39 }

That was one of the key things I noticed during today’s hearing. The entire tone of the defense team and the suspect have changed. Casey still interacted a bit with JB, but gone was the playful chumminess. I’m no Lillian glass, but I would interpret the interaction between Mason and Casey to be quietly adversarial. Next to no eye contact and both leaned far from each other whenever possible. It crossed my mind that Mason does not like Casey, however well he plans to defend her, he really doesn’t have to like his client.

Casey was more serious and anxious than in any other hearing I’ve watched. There were no random scrawls on notepads shoved under attorney noses. Far fewer smirks and smiles. Overall, I think someone has finally had the CTJ meeting with her.

Many are discussing her perusal of the binder in front of her. Perhaps she’s been instructed to sit up, pay attention and start helping herself in her own defense.

» WSH said: { Apr 2, 2010 – 09:04:48 }

Since there is so much time until the trial arrives, it would be interesting to take all the components of the garbage in the trunk, the frozen meals and pizza, and allow it rot under the same conditions and heat, this summer. If Dr Lee insists that there was meat in the trunk, it would be interesting to see how this all ends up smelling. I know that another test was done by media, but only on the pizza. Hopefully the real death trunk is well sealed and emits the same foul odor by next year. I would be curious to see what the air test might yield as well, aside from the good old olfactory comparison.
————-

WSH,

I did not do this on purpose, but I can tell you the result of a cheese and pepperoni pizza being left in the trunk of a black car in July, average temp of 94 for 13 to 14 days.

I typically drive a rather large truck, if I am going somewhere that parking is tight, I take one of the spare cars, a VW Jetta. One of the kids had a football event / party at a pizza place, we took the Jetta. I gave a couple of the team mates a ride home, so I had to put the pizza box in the trunk. We all forgot about the pizza.

Two weeks (approx) later, I need to use the car due to parking concerns…me and two of my kids get in the car, get about a mile or so out, and the son sitting in the back seat said “Why does it smell like pepperoni in here?”

Oh crap….the pizza.

It was all dried and curled, smelled like stale pepperoni …no flies, no maggots, no decomp smell.

Thankfully, the lab running tests on the actual evidence, ran their own pizza test without any human decomp results.

Just posting my 2 cents on today’s events, whatever it’s worth…hopefully at least 2 cents…
1. It looks like hardcore reality has hit Cindy. She seemed suddenly like events are
starting to take a toll maybe, though still trying to ward it off with new clothes.
What was up with that outfit? Not to mention Michelle Bart sitting like 2 chairs away
wearing…was that the exact same outfit? Major social faux pas ladies! They looked
like rejects from an old Supremes audition. Emoticons emoticons where are they?
Damn…

2. I think the court just filed Baez’ motion under “The Dog Ate My Homework”
and went on with the show. He seemed to be pontificating on thin air with
nothing substantial to say and just hoping that wearing a much more serious
and drab down to business suit would be sufficient and it wasn’t.

3. Why didn’t Cindy bring Casey a clean change of clothes? Ick!

4. I had to admit that Casey has good hair karma. Even in the worst conditions
she can grow big hair very fast. It’s not fair!

5. Mason was dressed a bit like Col. Sanders and seemed to be filling in for
Andrea Lyon as bleeding heart mother hen to Casey.

6. Where was Joy Wray?!! Or Lee for that matter. He seems to have bailed 100%.

That’s all.

geez apologies for all the errors in my last post (spelling, punctuation et al) I am coming off a nasty bout of some ugly flue my hubby gifted me……time for more Sudafed

Monica

LOL I said that on another blog…how does her hair grow so fast?!!

I now believe i will either eat more bean dip or maybe put it in my hair to get the same results. lol

» Nitasch said: { Apr 5, 2010 – 06:04:31 }

Next time. you have to leave some frozen dinners in there too. I didn’t see a bacon container or packaging in the trunk, but you can bet the defense will say someone could have thrown out left over strips from breakfast in there, you know, adipocere.

Just kidding!

» T2M said: { Apr 5, 2010 – 06:04:42 }

It’s not really that fast, she’s been in jail a long time now (since 2008), no haircuts since.

In regards to the issue of whether or not the release of personal information would inhibit searchers from volunteering… Just speaking for myself here, but I know it wouldn’t stop me, or a great many of the people in my small town community. I’ve volunteered before to help search for a missing child (in the mountains, in the freezing rain and sleeting snow). And I’ll turn out again if/when it’s needed. No sleezebag lawyer will make me think twice about that, either.

I have no doubt it would be miserable to an extreme to wind up getting treated like poor Roy Kronk — but frak them! The stress & misery afterwards just are not a factor when valued against being able to contribute to bringing a missing child home to their family.

A young cousin of mine went missing in the mountains, many years ago. It took months before his remains were found. Our family never stopped looking, and complete strangers never stopped looking. For months, folks who never knew our family risked their lives and limbs to help find him. I cannot imagine any of those everyday heroes being scared off by the likes of Boaz & Co.

Hopefully a great many volunteers, when they are faced with a family in need in their own community, will continue to step up to the plate despite the Roy Kronk precident — because I just can’t imagine leaving another human being to suffer the agonies that a missing child’s family endures out of a fear of petty legal harrassment.

So no objections filed to the letters? The defense might be concerned, but maybe it’s more important to put on a showing of no concern. The letters probably show Anthony’s attitudes, maybe even designed to benefit herself in her case– blame game perhaps?

WSH

So no on the putting bean dip in my hair? lol

Good thing you caught me in time!

T2M and WSH, maybe she’s been ‘pulling’ at it!

“because I just can’t imagine leaving another human being to suffer the agonies that a missing child’s family endures”

Browncoat Whit
I guess this is the perfect statement. Meaning, be careful if the family and mother ISN’T looking themselves, and doesn’t seem to want the missing person found, as in this case. Hopefully, we don’t see the likes of this again, where collectively, an entire family is not looking.

Who knows? Maybe bean dip is good for the hair, lots of protein.

Kleat

You would think Jb’s hair would be down to his @ss if pulling helped! LOL

I have not got to watch the hearing yet. I am about to try to catch up with you fine folks. I’ll be back later! Probably all googly-eyed and slobbering or something.

» Monica said: { Apr 5, 2010 – 06:04:52 }

What was up with that outfit? Not to mention Michelle Bart sitting like 2 chairs away
wearing…was that the exact same outfit?

___________________________________________

…i didn’t see michelle bart there, i think you’re referring to :

» emberl said: { Apr 5, 2010 – 12:04:10 }
Jim Lichtenstein is there in the courtroom because he’s the producer for the NBC Today show.
He’s sitting next to Cindy because she does not want to be bothered by anyone else sitting next to her.

The couple sitting next to them are realtors in Orlando.
They also went on the cruise with Cindy and George.
Them being friends and realtors of the A’s I’m sure they are “helping” them with the foreclosure.
Giving them good advice, wink ~ wink.
The couple were also at the memorial service.
She played the piano and he sang a song.

Casey Anthony: Jail letters could be made public Tuesday
posted by halboedeker on April, 5 2010 6:55 PM

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/entertainment_tv_tvblog/2010/04/casey-anthony-jail-letters-could-be-made-public-tuesday.html

Nitasch, your pizza story reminded me of the time my brother left his Christmas turkey (a gift from his boss) in the trunk…for about 6 months. We lived in a cold climate at the time, and he forgot he’d been given this frozen turkey. Anyway, June rolled around and we all started to notice the most horrific smell coming from his Beemer. It took 2 brave men and a lot of beer to remove that rank carcass from the trunk, but they finally did it. Within 3 or 4 months the car smelled fine again. Well, mostly.

As bad as that rotten poultry was, it’s nothing compared to a decomposing human. There is simply no way to mistake what that smell is. Rotten pizza would be roses compared to rotten turkey, and rotten turkey is roses compared to dead people.

I cannot wait to read those letters. They may turn out to be nothing, but, considering the defense’s track record, the letters are probably extremely revealing….The defense just doesn’t realize it.
If nothing else, they will, once again, reveal Casey Anthony to be a shallow, narcissistic, manipulative, selfish sociopath who wouldn’t understand how to act like a grieving mother if Meryl Streep herself gave her acting lessons.

Curiousmom said: { Apr 5, 2010 – 07:04:26 }

Amen to that! I am also curious… and yet KC might have given away more of her narcissistic personality in those letters and JB didn’t care to keep it from being released. Good for us!!! LOL

The letters!
I can’t wait to read them also.

The judge already has said he’s going to release them unless the defense would object.
There’s no privilege here, so the defense has no argument.

Stupid Casey shot herself in the foot.

Did WFTV video of the hearing mess up for you guys? Did it have big black times in it? If so, or if not, is there another place to view this?

yes the first part did mess up valhall there was problems.

can anyone here tell me if casey has to be present in court during her civil trial with Zenaida Gonzales?

Casey Anthony case: State seeks transcript from August hearing

It’s the hearing where defense team announces her innocence
Prosecutors want transcripts of an August hearing where one of Casey Anthony’s defense attorneys announced her innocence in court.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/os-casey-anthony-august-trancript-20100405,0,4865653.story

Laser, I believe she does have to attend the civil trial, she will also have to testify as far as I know.

Stupid of her not to settle just to keep herself and her parents off the stand, her parents did a lot of damage in the depos. ( That was fun to watch )

That’s part of the reason the defense wanted the civil trial after the murder trail. What is said in the civil trial can be used in the murder trial.

» Valhall said: { Apr 5, 2010 – 07:04:55 }
Did WFTV video of the hearing mess up for you guys? Did it have big black times in it? If so, or if not, is there another place to view this?

***

It was a problem with the pool feed. Sierra of WS who usually posts the hearings on YouTube has a notice up that she wasn’t going to bother because there were so many technical problems. She usually videotapes her television screen, so I assume everyone who watched the hearing live (I did not) experienced the same problems that are on the WFTV raw video.

It does clear up in the second half of part 1, and part 2 is okay.

WSH said: { Apr 5, 2010 – 07:04:05 }
Casey Anthony case: State seeks transcript from August hearing

It’s the hearing where defense team announces her innocence
Prosecutors want transcripts of an August hearing where one of Casey Anthony’s defense attorneys announced her innocence in court.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/os-casey-anthony-august-trancript-20100405,0,4865653.story

****

I just left a comment over there under that article. Didn’t anyone at the Sentinel watch the hearing?

Linda Drane Burdick wants the transcript of the August 21, 2009 hearing because of the dispute in today’s hearing about the defense claim that Texas EquuSearch was acting as an agent of the state during the 2008 searches for Caylee.

TIn today’s hearing, Baez said he had two arguments for getting full disclosure of the 4,000 TES volunteer records in NeJame’s office. His first argument was that the documents are subject to subpoena duces tecum for three reasons: 1) because TES conducted business in Florida and even went so far as to open a Florida chapter, 2) because TES was acting as an agent of the state of Florida, and 3) because the TES volunteer documents the defense is seeking are in Florida.

After Baez and NeJame finished making their arguments, Linda Drane Burdick said she wanted to address the court to point out that TES was never an agent of the state and the issue had been addressed during the August 21, 2009 hearing. She said the defense had made the “agent of the state” claim about TES last year, and the state had several witnesses to rebut that claim at the August 21 hearing. She further claimed today that the defense waived their argument that TES was an agent of the state during that August 21 and indicated they were not going to proceed with that position.

She said if the court is considering TES as an agent of the state as part of its order relative to the amended motion for the TES documents they were addressing today, the state would like the opportunity to address it, stating first that the assertion that TES is an agent of the state is not the same as presenting evidence that TES is, in fact, an agent of the state . . . . She never got to the second point because Judge Strickland said he vaguely remembered the issue and if he needed more information, he would send out an email asking for it.

Baez then got up and said the defense has never abandoned their position that TES acted as an agent of the state. Judge Strickland asked Linda Drane Burdick if she could get a transcript of the August 21 hearing. She said she supposed she could. Judge Strickland said if there is a waiver on the record, he, Judge Strickland, would like to get a copy of it.

Hence her motion today for a transcript of the August 21, 2009 hearing.

Maura, I wonder if the defense is hanging their straw hat on the $5,000 (was that the figure) LE gave TES to aid in the initial search? I don’t recall that being mentioned by Baez as basis for the claim that their “agents of the state” though.

their/they’re

lol.

Valhall, try WESH, they may have a better version, the black-outs are only at the beginning of the first part.

Wait.

they’re/their.

It’s tired and I’m getting late – better shut mah mouf.

For anyone interested in watching the August 21 2009 hearing on youtube. I have tried watching it on WFTV and the player keeps stopping all the time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fj2O5sZj_uU&feature=PlayList&p=C140CDF9F9751BBB&playnext_from=PL&index=1&playnext=2

I have tried watching it on WFTV and the player keeps stopping all the time.

For those who want to watch today’s hearing, WFTV keep breaking transmission so best to watch on WESH or FOX.

Hey Val, think I am stuck in moderation. Thanks.

I just came over and apologies as I have not read the posts yet.

Can some one direct me to a complete video/audioi of the hearings. I have tried WESH, WFTV, etc but just get snippets. It looks like it was a BSD (Baez Smacked Down) by NeJame.

Two questiosns;

Did Casey look at her parents? It seems it was in a different venue as in this venue G & C were immediatly behind KC. She would have to work hard to not acknowledge them

What is with KC and the hand rubbing? Whats the psychological meaning there?

Was anyone having a hard time getting connected here? Took me a long, long time to get back on.

I wasn’t able to get here earlier

EDRN said: { Apr 5, 2010 – 10:04:01 }

*sniff*

Yes, I thought the raccoons, owls, hawks and over-confident Koi got Val. I was about to send out an SOS to Jack Hanna.

Whew…thought it was just me. Thought maybe Val got mad at me and banned me for life….lol

Isn’t Casey on trial for murder? Or is she on trial for placing the body where it was found? All the defense ever says is that someone else placed Caylee’s body where it was found. Even Ma-coo-coo indicated that ages ago…..and he said that would make Casey innocent. Stupid people!

jennyb said: { Apr 5, 2010 – 08:04:50 }
Maura, I wonder if the defense is hanging their straw hat on the $5,000 (was that the figure) LE gave TES to aid in the initial search? I don’t recall that being mentioned by Baez as basis for the claim that their “agents of the state” though.

***

No, that was not the basis for their argument, but I’m sure they’ll bring up the dontation of $5,000, 25 airboats, and OCSO’s entire mounted patrol for the TES-directed Caylee search when they roll up their sleeves and get down to business.

I just watched the part of the August 21 hearing when they went over the TES record motion. Sadly, Linda Drane-Burdick was wrong today. The defense never waived their claim that TES was acting as an agent of the state.

My notes:

Hearing with Strickland scheduled for 9:30am to go over four motions

Mark NeJame asked if he could go first because it was his daughter’s first day of school; Baez had no objections. First motion argued: Motion to certify Tim Miller as a material witness or in the alternative for a subpoena duces tecum for TES records.

Macaluso up for defense: “As Your Honor knows, the body of Caylee Marie Anthony was found very close to the Anthony home, and the body was found in a wooded area that if one were to search for a missing child, this is the first place you would go search. There is substantial evidence that we’ve discovered, and that’s been set forth in our brief, Your Honor, that the body — or the remains of Caylee Anthony were placed there after Casey Anthony was locked up in the Orange County Correctional Facility. There is substantial evidence, and that proves, Your Honor, her innocence. That’s exculpatory evidence, it proves that somebody else placed the remains in the area where it was ultimately found.”

He said there were extensive searches by many people, including TES, for Caylee.

He said there is no expectation of privacy because a searcher who finds the missing child is a material witness

If there are searchers who searched an area where the body was ultimately found and those searchers smelled no decomp, saw no evidence, etc., those people are also material witnesses

Expressed disbelief that TES only found 32 people who searched the Suburban Drive woods. Said defense talked to someone who claimed around 100 people searched those woods where Caylee was ultimately found

Casey has a right to interview witnesses and take depositions of every potential witness, and the TES and Tim Miller are critical witnesses

The area was extensively searched, including with cadaver dogs.

Strickland interrupted and said he could see the relevance and wanted the defense to provide a legal argument for declaring Tim Miller a material witness. Macaluso argued Tim Miller is a critical witness and a Texas resident.

With regard to subpoena duces tecum, Macaluso said the defense has a right to review the documents and an obligation to review all documents, including maps and search grids, relating to the search for Caylee

The defense wants all the documents, not just those that someone else says are relevant. They need to review the documents themselves

Next point for Macaluso is that NeJame had represented George and Cindy Anthony and now is representing EquuSearch and objecting to the disclosure of records that are exculpatory in nature. He said it was strange and wanted to bring it to the court’s attention

Macaluso brought up the point that TES claims the organization is not an agent of the state. Macaluso objected and said TES was clearly acting in concert with law enforcement even though they are a private, non-profit entity. Said defense has numerous exhibits showing TES working hand-in-hand with LE and CID (daily TES-OCSO defriefings, map reviews, etc.).

Said TES was clearly doing business within Florida, and despite being a non-profit, for purposes of jurisdiction, TES falls under Florida’s “long arm” statute

NeJame up

NeJame said counsel for defense is indicating something that is different from what they put in their motion

NeJame said defense request for records was already denied because the motion was legally improper

Said volunteers who searched in areas far from Caylee’s remains (like Winter Park) are not material to the case. Request is too broad.

It is reasonable to want to question people who found evidence, but good samaritans who did not find anything have a right to privacy

NeJame said they went ahead and identified 32 volunteers who searched on Suburban Drive within 200 yards of Caylee’s remains

There were thousands of searchers, and those who were no where near Suburban Drive have a right to privacy.

To spread the personal information of non-relevant searchers is