In the January 7, 2009 interview OCSO conducted with Dominic Casey, OCSO detectives wasted no time getting to what they were truly interested in – the November searches on Suburban Drive. The first question presented to Casey (we’ll just refer to him as DC because calling him Casey confuses me) was how he came to be out there (on Suburban) searching. DC immediately caused issues by first uttering “I was not out there” and then circled around to state there was a meet and greet on the Saturday of November 15th, 2008. He then states:
At the meet and greet. I was headed out to the meet and greet. And in Kiomarie Cruz’s statement she stated that that was a hangout where they hung out. That was one thing in Kiomarie’s statement that I had not seen or verified, so I thought on Saturday when I go to the meet and greet then I will go ahead and run by there and, and just take a look at it and see if it’s a hang out.
Okay, other than the fact that Hoover states otherwise (that Kiomarie was never mentioned) and other than the fact it appears he went for a different reason (i.e. he got a tip from a psychic), there’s a problem with this first reason DC gave: Kiomarie told OCSO about the place she, Casey and other friends would go ON THE OTHER SIDE OF SUBURBAN. DC never went to the “school side” of Suburban on either November 15th or 16th, 2008 while Hoover was with him. So, what DC did on Suburban never connected with Kiomarie’s statements.
Now, immediately after throwing out that he was ALREADY going to stop at Suburban on his way to the meet and greet because of Kiomarie’s statements, he then adds the metaphysical coincidence of:
…On the way over [to his office to meet Jim Hoover] I had received a call from Ginette Lucas.
Now he states he got the phone call on the way to the office and says that was some where between 7 and 8 a.m. Records show (at the least the records we’ve seen so far) that the first call was around 6:43 a.m., which is close enough. The only question is how long a drive it was to the office. Because he didn’t show up at the office until 8:15. That’s an hour and half drive.
So, let’s get this straight so far…based on Kiomarie statements to OCSO DC was ALREADY planning to stop on Suburban Drive on the way to the meet and greet when as he drove to his office to meet Jim gets a call from a psychic who…
…had a vision of seeing Caylee Marie Anthony.
She didn’t say Suburban Drive.
She said it’s an area, she said, at the end of Hopespring Drive. She said, ‘I don’t know what it is. But there’s a school nearby. There’s some woods nearby. There’s a house on the corner. If you look at the house on the corner, and you follow the fence line down, it opens to woods, and there’s…woods in there. And if you go down…’ and she said something like how many yards, whatever it may be. If I’d walk in she said, ‘I believe that’s where you’ll see three concrete paver, concrete blocks.’ Is what she described them as, as concrete blocks. So I said, ‘Okay.’ And when I pulled up, when I pulled up, when I first, when we first pulled up at Suburban she called me again and said, ‘Are you, are you there? Have, have you seen it?’
Let’s stop there for just one moment and rub our reflecting stones. Okay, so Lucas’s psychic Kung Fu is very very strong. Not only is she able to describe in detail the exact description of Suburban Drive as can be gleaned from any Google map, but she apparently has psychic-GPS because according to DC, she called RIGHT AFTER HE EXITED THE VEHICLE UPON ARRIVING AT SUBURBAN. FREAKY good spidey-sense, I’d say. Especially considering she never said it was on Suburban Drive and somehow she’s asking “are you there yet?” Are you where yet? huh??? Now, Jim Hoover does not talk as if DC answered a call when he got out of the vehicle. Jim Hoover talks as if DC exited the car and made a call. And I would have to say that the phone records are on Jim’s side on this debate. Because at 9:02 to 9:03 am DC makes 2 calls to Lucas’s home number and 1 to her cell phone. They play phone tag for a couple of minutes and then DC finally gets her on her home phone for a 14 minute conversation. So the facts do NOT support DC’s claim of the psychic ring-a-ling the minute he arrives on Suburban. But I give him an 8 for dramatic effect. It will play well in the movie…but only in one of those blurry “dream sequences” that is overlayed as you hear DC blabbering his version of the story in the background.
Okay, so the next thing DC shares in the interview is how when Lucas calls him (which is not true) she starts directing him to the “spot” like she’s seeing through his eyes – kind of like one of the palantir stones in Lord of the Rings (cue eerie voice-over saying “I SEE YOU!”) or like she’s psychically taken him over like an Avatar. I don’t think we need to waste too much time on the specifics of what he claims she directed him on bein’s he lied upfront about who called who – that and I don’t really give a crap.
So DC reiterates under questioning that he was, indeed, already on his way to Suburban to “check out Kiomarie’s statements” when the call came through from the uber-psychic. When DC states his original reason was because Kiomarie had said they hung out there when they were kids John Allen points out that Casey’s 22 years old now and …
Hang on, let’s clear this up. DC said he was going out to Suburban Drive to see if he could find a place that looked like a teenage hangout. *reflective pause* Note that he did not state he was going out there to look for a DEAD-Caylee. He was going out there to look for a teenage hangout.
So John Allen points out that Casey is 22 now and how the heck was DC going to identify a spot that Casey might have hung out at when she was in middle school versus one that, say, she didn’t hang out at? Which is a damned good question. But John Allen wasn’t quite through with the really good questions. He followed up with – and if you did find an area that looked like a teenage hangout, what the heck was that going to tell you? What were you going to do with that information? What was going to be your next step?
DC cleared that up straight away…
There would have been no, no next step.
Okie-dokie then. It’s a damned good thing uber-psychic gave the ring-a-ling else this could have been a waste of time! And if you don’t believe me, just look at what DC says next…”I already knew that the place had been searched three times prior by uhm, Equusearch I believe it was three, three times prior. So I knew there was nothing there anyway.“ I’m telling you right now, if Lucas hadn’t called him, he’d have looked like a raving maniac….on video. Oops, he did anyway.
John Allen pushes back on that statement about the Equusearch searches and asked DC how he knows that “particular spot” had already been searched 3 times. DC gets all up in the kerflunkeled and says he wasn’t referring to a particular spot at which point everyone in the room agrees they have found common ground – the sacred ground of confusion, that is. So they all take their sandals off, turn down the lights, and sit Indian style and go forward.
So DC takes the talking stick at this point and says he told Jim on the way to Suburban he had gotten a tip on a DEAD-Caylee at Suburban and that he didn’t want to tell Jim anymore than that. And then he says that when they got there he told Jim to “stay here” (presumably in the car as Jim states) and he’d go do a walk-about and see what he could see.
When asked if he told Jim to video tape he said no. When asked if Jim ask him if he could video tape he said no. I think he’s a big phat liar, personally. (I know I should be more eloquent than that, but economy of words seems to be in order at this point.)
So DC tells the story of looking up and seeing Jim with the camera and saying “What the hell are you doing?” At which point John Allen asks “so we ought to hear you saying that on the tape, right?” LOL Of course, we haven’t heard the audio, but I’ve got this little feeling John Allen already had, so he knows the answer to that question. DC then reveals that he did, in fact, have his still camera with him and he was taking pictures of what he was seeing!
John Allen asks him if he made any phone calls while he was in the woods and DC states he did not – only in the street. Of course, the video states otherwise. (By the way, whether Jim’s lying, DC’s lying or both of them are lying, I want to make clear I don’t think the video is lying.) Then DC outright states upon questioning that he was talking to his sick daughter. We have no phone records to support this, not unless DC’s sick daughter was at Lucas’s house.
Then DC tells about going to the house nearby. He’s asked if he knows Jim is filming then. He says no…and calls Jim a sneaky devil. I’ll just let the non-lying video speak to this point…I personally think it reveals there was more than one sneaky devil on the 15th.
DC then tells about how relieved he is that they didn’t find a DEAD-Caylee and immediately states that he tells Jim he’s going back the next day. Seriously – that’s just how it came out in the interview. So then John Allen asked why he took Jim back with him the next day when he was upset that Jim video’d him on the first day without his permission? And DC really doesn’t have a good answer for this other than “Jim said he wanted to come.”…sneaky devil.
Okay, so DC wants to go back the next day because of the “three pavers”. There’s literally three pavers everywhere the psychic sends him and he’s “freaked out”. He no longer cares about teenage hideouts or anything like that, it is simply all about the “three pavers”. He MUST go back and rule out the “three pavers” factor of the psychic’s uber-Kung Fu spidey sense tips. THIS is compelling. John Allen asks…
Did you notify anybody in this room that…
“No sir, I did not.”
Okay, why?
“Because there was nothing there and that it was part…”
But you went back and looked a second time. Obviously you felt there may have been something there.” [which is a really valid statement bein's DC just said that's why he went back]
“No, I didn’t feel as though there was something there.”
…why’d you go back?
“Just to get set in my mind that I was comfortable that there wasn’t. Simple as that.”
(I’d like to interject here that I don’t think it’s as simple as DC is trying to make it. And I’m almost certain at this point John Allen and Nicholas Savage considered jerking the talking stick out of DC’s hands and smacking him across the temple with it.)
So Savage asks him if he reported the initial tip – no, he didn’t. He asked him if he told anybody at the meet and greet about the tip or the search – no, he didn’t.
Then DC shares that he got NO sleep that night worrying about a DEAD-Caylee being out there and that he had to find out because she needed a proper burial at which point John Allen says…
Hold on hold on hold on….you were passing us tips at that point, right? DC says yes. And this tip freaked you out, right? DC says yes. …but he didn’t turn this one in.
So DC goes on about the second day he and Jim went searching. Again, he claims to not have any knowledge of video being taken. It’s most likely because he was consumed with the “three pavers” thought and was oblivious to what was going on around him. Let’s just say “he was in the zone”.
At this point in the interview John Allen turns to who, exactly, DC is working for. He states he has a letter of engagement with George and Cindy Anthony, and a letter of engagement with Casey Anthony. Allen asks him how long he has had the letter of engagement with George and Cindy and DC says he can’t remember, he’d have to look at it, but he thinks it went back to October, 2008. He’s pretty sure of that because it was at the time he terminated services with Baez. Allen asks about the letter of engagement with Casey Anthony and DC, and DC apparently has a copy of that one dated September 12, 2008.
Nick Savage then asks:
And just for the record, the information that we’re talking about does not relate to any information that Casey provided to you? So what we’ve been discussing is not information that Casey provided so you would work on that behalf. Is that correct?
DC answers: “That is correct.”
Now that exchange right there is very important because DC has now stated he had terminated services with Baez before November, and he was not working on behalf of Casey Anthony, which means – this aint covered by privileges, folks. DC goes further on this point to state “Alright. I have not spoken to, I have not seen Casey since that would be Sunday, October the 12th.” And further clarifies “As of effective October the 12th is the last conversation, or whatever, that I’ve ever had with Casey Anthony. I’ve not provided services from that day forward.“ Which rules out that the search on Suburban Drive can be claimed to be on behalf of Casey Anthony.
John Allen then asks DC about who was deciding what tips would get forwarded on to law enforcement for follow-up. DC states:
Ninety-nine percent of the tips that D&A Investigations received John…Caylee’s tip line or uhm, people sending in, sending tips to the Anthony family. And they would forward it to me.”
Let’s stop here for a second. “Caylee’s tip line” and “tips to the Anthony family” are one in the same. Let’s get that straight. The only difference is the phone number or email address used to get the tip to the Anthonys, but both those pipes funneled to the Anthonys.
When pushed on who decided what tips were “credible” enough to be passed to law enforcement DC answers “George, Cindy and myself”. John Allen asked what the criteria was for deeming a tip “credible”. DC…doesn’t really do well here. He gives the “Florida Mall tip” as an example of what a “credible” tip was. John Allen takes issue with that and gets a pretty good zing in.
John Allen:
She was supposedly seen down there, okay? Somebody must have looked at it and said this is, this is good, credible information, or no, this is not. And obviously you guys decided it is. Did somebody look at this and go, wow, the kidnappers must have decided today’s a good day to take Caylee to the mall and let her go into the mall here in Orlando and hang out in the playground. How did y’all reach that decision? What, what kind of, what things would you discuss?
LOL
So Nick Savage tags in after a lengthy discussion about the Florida Mall tip and asks:
Well I’m curious to know with the tip that you received on Suburban were they included in that criteria whether or not to forward it to law enforcement?
“No, there was nothing to it. I dispelled it.” [I think "dispelled" is a very appropriate word bein's the tip was all "mystic" and stuff.]
And how many, how many times did it take you going to Suburban before you dispelled that?
“Three.”
DC claims the last time he went, which he states was a “a few days after”, he just kind of walked around in the street “…to see if I could see any points of entry, or any kind of differences.” Which I find to be a really strange choice of words. Differences from what? From a few days prior? Entry points for what? Entry points as in signs some one had been there after you had been there? What does this mean? He also clarifies that on the third visit he went alone.
Later in the interview DC is asked what he would have done if he found Caylee’s remains during these searches and he states he would have said a prayer, called 911, and stood vigil until the authorities arrived. When asked if he would have called the Anthonys he states not until after the authorities arrived. But he also states that he never thought Caylee was dead at which point Savage points out had he found “a Caylee” in the woods, it would not have been a “LIVE-Caylee”, to which DC agrees. DC is asked how long after the searches was it before he let the Anthonys know about the tip from the psychic. He states about 2 weeks. So that would have been around the end of November/first of December.
In his response about informing the Anthonys, DC states he worded informing the Anthonys of the search as in connection with investigating the Kiomarie statements. This leads one to believe that BEFORE the searches on Suburban the Anthonys knew that he was going to be going to Suburban to do the whole “hangout” search thingy. This is when Brad Conway seems to jump out of his skin and interject himself into the interview. Before even asking for the talking stick, Brad blurts out “Did you tell them [the Anthonys] what Ginnette told you exactly?” DC seems to be taken aback by this and first replies “Excuse me?” And then follows up with “I did not tell them all the details.” He states he told them “…I went there. I did not find any remains. I did not see anything. There was nothing there uh, that I observed.”
The investigators ask DC if he ever discussed with the Anthonys what he would do if he found a DEAD-Caylee and he responded he had informed them he would call 911 and they were okay with that. This is when he is asked if he was ever given instructions contrary to that by ANYONE, and all hell breaks loose because he had been given such instructions. They turned the tape off, went off the record, and came back on summarizing that DC had just given information he felt was privileged. Which means that the person who gave the instructions to do something other than contact authorities, was some one DC had a contract with and was providing services to at the time, and fell under work privilege.
Valhall.
Related posts:
- The Search: Jim Hoover’s 12/18/08 interview with OCSO
- Tim Miller’s Interview with OCSO
- The Anthony Encycliepedia: Dominic Casey and the psychics
- The Search: Hoover’s civil Deposition
- Linda Tinelli’s interview: A Few very strange Questions
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