Miscellaneous Topics on the Caylee Marie Anthony Case – Part 3

Valhall,
Good evening!!! I am sorry if you already have seen what I posted below.
This is the A’s Foreclosure document:
http://www.docstoc.com/docs/26276855/Anthony-House-Foreclosure

Snip from WFTV:
“The Anthonys bought the house for almost $91,000 in 1989 (property appraiser’s listing), but court records show the Anthonys owe more than $115,000, plus interest, partly because of a second mortgage.”
http://www.wftv.com/news/22642148/detail.html

Yep, so they had their original mortgage paid down to about $59,000. They took a second mortgage and cashed out their equity in 2005. Blew the money…and now both have stopped working. Cindy gave some agency a bullcrap story that resulted in disability and the two losers some how are surprised that not paying your mortgage payment for 9 months could result in foreclosure.

Idiots.

Valhall said: { Feb 24, 2010 – 07:02:41 }

You are funny Val!!!

Idiots indeed!!! And Jo-Jo said “he is not going anywhere”… pathetic, isn’t it??? Well, BC fits right in with them, he also has his condo in foreclosure just as the Milsteads had. Bunch of losers!!!!

Do you need a lawyer Val? Give a call to BC or JB, take your pick… blink blink

FRG,

http://www.wftv.com/pdf/22661346/detail.html

What in the world could this be. I can’t stand the anticipation!

Well if it’s clear to us that these people are scammers I have confidence it is crystal clear to the authorities. OSCO, the FBI and I hope the disability people who were probably browbeaten into submission when Cindy filed.

I have to hope there will be a day of reckoning and I pray it’s soon. I cannot believe the way the Anthonys have worked the system! The first moment I saw Cindy in her first interview I knew she was bad news. I’m not some great psychic or sleuther but c’mon, it was so easy to spot. Look at them. Look at their history! Look at the way they’ve conducted themselves, the lies, the attitude, all horrific.

The least sympathetic *victims* EVER. And yet it seems some people can’t get over the hump of realizing that yes, there are some true grifters in this world. And that’s what this family is… plain and simple.

The fact that Cindy is on disability is a travesty. The people of Orlando should be spitting mad.

ARRRRGH.

Val I think it goes directly to the family culpability, this request from the prosecutors. Has to be.

Val,

OMG!!! Me too… this secrecy is killing me… so many theories. I was just joking about JB being nervous over this and do you remember when JB drove himself to the hospital? Coincidentally it was the week before SAO released some docs and one of them was the diary which I really believe is from 2003… but he sure has have stomach ache. He might have been losing some sleep Val!!! LOL

“WDBO Local News
Jose Baez in hospital over weekend
By Drew Petrimoulx @ February 16, 2009 5:55 PM
http://wdbo.com/localnews/2009/02/jose-baez-in-hospital-over-wee.html”
This is one of the docs released on Feb 18, 2009 amongst many of course.
http://www.docstoc.com/docs/4356210/Casey-Anthony—Diary-Released-Feb-18-2009

I always heard it takes a lot of red tape, paperwork, lawyers, to get on disability and it takes quite a long time to wend through the bureaucracy. Some strings were pulled for Cindy to have gotten it to fast. People that lose limbs on the job have to wait a year or two sometimes. It’s a very complex procedure.

Looks like the disability department rolled out the red carpet for madam.

Isn’t that funny how quiet JW has been? What about Holly Gagne? Guess who was HG’s attorney in the battery charges? Yep, BC!!!! Unbelievable!!!! Geez!!!

http://www.wftv.com/news/22661294/detail.html

state allowed to keep evidence secret for 30 days

jennyb said: { Feb 24, 2010 – 07:02:16 }

I have a friend here in Fl who was in a car accident, she got a spinal cord injury.

She had to apply for disability THREE times. The woman is in a wheelchair and will be for life, yet she has to show proof of disability regularly. Crazy!

Cindy WALKS in and recieves what she wants first time out??

Believe me…people in Orlando ARE mad enough to spit.

I’ve heard horror stories T2M, simply tragic, people with serious disabilities like your friend, who suffer greatly while trying to maneuver their way through the tremendous red tape of the system. People are truly destitute, disabled and suffering and are desperate for help. It’s quite disturbing the way the situation with the Anthonys has evolved and for the life of me I will never understand it.

cindy’s disability:

the way i understood it——she is on ( short term, or long term, whichever) disability from her employer: GENTIVA——an entirely different roll of red tape.

..( but with employment disability–even if much easier to get—there is a time limit to continuing to receive benfits.)

it was brought up in one of her interviews/depos..

While it is true that it takes a long time to get Social Security disability she probably had private disability through her work. The private disability company will usually require you to file for SS, but then it covers until SS takes over. They know all about the disability world as George was (and may still be) on disability for a knee injury. It is hard to believe that between the disability pay and any Caylee photo rights that they couldn’t afford their fairly reasonable house payment. The lies continue when they say they didn’t know they were being foreclosed on, as if BOA did not send any notices. What did they think would happen after not paying for 9 months? This is also not their first foreclosure as George stated in one of his interviews that when they moved from Ohio to Florida, they “let the house go back to the bank”. Money management is not their strong suit.

I guess if gullible people want to give the Anthonys money that’s life. And if the media wants to pay licensing fees… so be it. But to have the government bend the rules and pay out disability (which is no small chunk of change) to a woman who walks and talks, giggles, insults, cruises, gets tattoos, screams the most horrible and untruthful accusations at law enforcement who worked so tirelessly on the family’s behalf … without even seeming to investigate the reason for the “disability” …. that just takes the cake.

Ellejay, it is my understanding that the Gentiva disability was short-term, no longer than 6 months. Cindy (I believe but have no link) is on longer-term disability which has nothing to do with her former employer. It is two years minimum. It is the kind of disability that usually requires a lot of red tape and most people, if they can, get a lawyer to help them. I understand most attorneys charge about $3,000 for this. A lot of people don’t have the money to get the help and so they try to figure it out on their own and wait… and wait… and wait.

If I am wrong about Cindy’s disability payments I do apologize for my misstatements.

Donna, I’d hope the Bank would release a statement of the way they conduct business when it comes to notifying a home-owner of late payments and looming foreclosure. I would think they can’t be happy with this kind of press.

There is a big difference between receiving your short-term and long-term disability benefits through your employer (which is private insurance partly funded by you yourself) and state and federal disability benefits which are funded by the taxpayer.

The private disability benefits are much easier to qualify for – and quite frankly – Cindy’s mental state would surely allow for her to use up her short-term disability and then move into her long-term disability benefits. I highly doubt that the insurance company or Gentiva want her to come to work every day under the current circumstances. Usually your long-term disability is about 60% of your salary at the time of disability and it allows you to stay with the company health insurance as well.

So hope that helps.

Lily,
Thank you very much for the explanation!!!
So, if you say that Cindy can get up to 60% of her salary then what’s her excuse for NOT paying her mortgage! I guess none.

I am stealing this from Dave’s place I found it very interesting. Wonder if this is what the anthony’s are up too?

_____________________________________________________________________ Shade // February 24, 2010 at 1:52 am

Hi everyone, Dave. Good to see you back to your feistiness. ;D

I can’t speak for Florida’s Homeowners laws, but it’s been my experience (where I reside) that many, MANY homeowners are purposely NOT paying their mortgages.

http://marinadedave.wordpress.com/2010/02/23/whered-the-millions-go/#comment-111578

[Edited by Valhall: Link provided to original content.]

OOPs sorry Val thank you.

I’d like to address that comment brought over from Marinade Dave’s, if I may. I’ve been in banking for 20 years (small community bank – not a big one like BOA) and believe me, I know how hard times are. We’ve had millions in losses over the last 2 to 3 years. But what I don’t understand is someone willingly letting their credit rating go through the floor so they can get a modification. I’m certain there is a lot of red tape involved with the bigger banks to get a modification, but not every bank is that way. We have always done business honestly, and have worked with people however we could to avoid a foreclosure. The loans were made in good faith, and when they were, the properties were worth the value and people had jobs. Now that the situation is totally backwards, banks are holding loans that are way too high in loan-to-value. They are stuck. And if they are stuck with these properties, they have to write them off at a loss and try to sell them. That means there is even less money to loan to people.

I know, most people think of banking as an enterprise of trickery, but believe me, it isn’t always that way. Your small town community banks are run by people you know, who are your friends, people with whom you go to church, etc. The big banks, like Citi and AIG, that took bailout money and paid their executives millions in bonuses, do not represent every financial institution.

» Here in Northwest Arkansas said: { Feb 24, 2010 – 10:02:13 }

I own a home still in Chicago. My payment is $800.00 a month it is a 5 br. 2 bath, 3 car garage, two story. I would not want to go through all the things one has to, to let it go into foreclosure. I also own a home 6 hrs away. My payment a month is only $300.00. It is a downsized home but it is very nice. 2 bedroom, a bathroom in each bedroom, a full basement with a bathroom, a new two car garage nice fenced in back yard with a shed. Rooms here are very nice sized. I was just curious as to what others thought of the article. Thank you for reading it. Do you think the Anthony’s would do this?

Shyloh, I would almost bet my next paycheck on it! I know from reviewing (again) recently some of their interviews, George admitted that when they left Ohio to move to Florida they ‘let the bank have it back’ (their home in Ohio), so I was puzzled as to how with that, plus a bankruptcy following them, they could even qualify for another home loan. I did remember George saying that it was an assumable loan and that “Cindy did that” because (if I’m remembering correctly) she went ahead of him and made the arrangements. I don’t know how property laws are in Florida, but I suppose she could have applied based on her own income and have been qualified to assume the mortgage, and perhaps the ink had not yet dried on all the paperwork in Ohio so BOA or whatever bank it was in 1989 may not have known about it. And, gee, do you think Cindy would volunteer that info up front? Don’t think so.

And while I’m ranting I would like to add that there are quite a lot of people out there who seem to think that if they benefit from something, it’s OK. Never mind the creditor they owe money to, or the increase in fees or charges or whatever that other people are going to have to pay as a result, it doesn’t affect them, and they gained from it, so too bad. And nevermind that perhaps it’s just on the line between legal and illegal, it certainly is dishonest.

That just amazes me!

WOW I can’t imagine anything like that. This family takes the cake. Yes, I remember all of those things you have mentioned.

And then for them to be surprised. PLEASE, I just hate when people think I am as dumb as a rock haha.

I seriously doubt they were surprised. I think their attorney has advised them all the way. And I doubt an attorney’s integrity who would do so.

I think these people will stop at nothing to avoid having to take responsibility for anything. I just am shaking my head.

The co-owner of Conway’s foreclosed condo is a Dr. John Sundin. Dr. Sundin has just voluntarily given up his license to practice medicine in Florida and is now practicing in NC. He was a physician in Key West for 10 years, according to his CV.
http://www.ashememorial.org/AM.nsf/View/JohnSundin
Dr. Sundin has very impressive credentials.

jennyb said: { Feb 24, 2010 – 07:02:16 }
I always heard it takes a lot of red tape, paperwork, lawyers, to get on disability and it takes quite a long time to wend through the bureaucracy. Some strings were pulled for Cindy to have gotten it to fast. People that lose limbs on the job have to wait a year or two sometimes. It’s a very complex procedure.

Looks like the disability department rolled out the red carpet for madam.

*****

It takes a long time to get on government disability, but that isn’t what Cindy has. She is on long-term (time-limited) disability through her employer, Gentiva.

I’ll chime in here and say that I am sure Cindy isn’t on SSDI. Either she or Gentive must be paying out that disability.

Maura and the others who mentioned the time it takes are so very accurate. It can’t happen overnight. Even if she had gotten SSDI the first go-round, she wouldn’t have been able to collect benefits for the first 6 months of disability.

Disability payments aside, I do have to wonder how these people spend their days. They aren’t able to visit Casey. They don’t go to work. What are they doing?

Thinker said: { Feb 25, 2010 – 12:02:38 }
The co-owner of Conway’s foreclosed condo is a Dr. John Sundin. Dr. Sundin has just voluntarily given up his license to practice medicine in Florida and is now practicing in NC. He was a physician in Key West for 10 years, according to his CV.
http://www.ashememorial.org/AM.nsf/View/JohnSundin
Dr. Sundin has very impressive credentials.

..yes, very. he joined ashe memorial in april 2007—–fled forida when ? and why?

..( not that it may have anything at all to do with THIS case…

Ritanita:
Disability payments aside, I do have to wonder how these people spend their days. They aren’t able to visit Casey. They don’t go to work. What are they doing?

..excellent question, i’ve wondered that myself.

..there is speculation on another forum that they are heading for divorce……….which would not shock me————–if george has seen the light ( evidenced at his practically ignoring cindy’s “i love you” at the last hearing.)

..cindy will NEVER see the light ( or admit the light exists!!!) she will go to her grave ( and hopefully the cell NEXT to kc ) defending her lying *&$%#@* daughter.

..it’s been over a year and 1/2 – (20 months feb. 16th?) 2 YEARS in june….if WE are all thinking it’s been a LONG 2 years————imagine what it’s like in that house.

..george and cindy—together, day after day after day…for 20 months ???

..it would not surprise me in the least—–if george is fed up—having to do the ‘cindy spin’ —–and is out of there.

For some reason it will not print my comment. I’ll try one more time…
Re: G+C, apparently George spends his time on alt lifestyle sites indulging perverse
future fantasies as S+M dom when he can finally be the boss. If they lose the house,
he’s out of there. Probably they are at each others’ throats 24/7 yet equally
co-dependent. No one is going to want or hire either of them with all their baggage.
They will have no choice but to cooperate on book, film and media doings
to bail out financially. And only they alone share the unique pathology
that their little princess has injected into their lives.
It’s got to be a love/hate thing, a thin line between love and hate.
They will never successfully live with or without each other.

How will we wait 30 days or more for the protected discovery? I guess I really don’t care.

Oh, who am I kidding?

We know the A’s are planning something. They would not let their house go into foreclosure for no reason. There’s something definitely going on with them. I’m sure we will find out at some point. Could this whole situation have any more twists and turns? When you look at it all from July 15 to today, it’s totally mind-boggling!

And I, too, wonder what Cindy and George spend their days doing. Seems like D. Casey has fled, maybe in Puerto Rico looking for the real ZFG, yeah, right! No one’s seen or heard from Lee. Did he go back to his own rental house? Move in with Mallory?

One thought I had was that Cindy wants to be ready to move on a moment’s notice as soon as her spawn pleads guilty to something so she can live in the same city/state as the spawn’s prison. Far-fetched, I know.

The Scamthony’s may know that the proverbial crapola is about to hit the fan and they are packing for their great escape before Johnny Law can get the cuffs on them. LOL

I should post some of the emails that Cindy responded back to me on regarding the Scamfoundation when it was first set up. She is one mean spirited person, let me tell ya.

» Janielane said: { Feb 25, 2010 – 09:02:59 }

She wrote directly to you?

Yuppers, she responded to about 5 or 6 emails before I finally left her alone. I didn’t want to get in trouble for harrassing her about that scam of foundation they set up. By the way, I just went to the site and it looks like so far there have on been 475 people to have visited that site.

That’s not many Janie. Is that since the inception of the site, or today?

Janielane said: { Feb 25, 2010 – 09:02:08 }

Now, that would be something.

The counter on the very bottom usually tells the total amount of visiters since the site was opened.

Below is just a snippet from the first email that Cindy sent back to me. I love the statement she made about a pure heart!

From: Cindy Anthony Add to Contacts
To: [EMAIL REMOVED BY VALHALL]

As for Karma, God tells me to laugh at the devil and honey you are a million laughs. He knows a pure heart and you obviuously do not have one.

OOPS Val, can you delete my email addy? LOL

So I guess God speaks directly to Cindy Anthony and Pat Roberts. How come s/he never talks directly to anyone who is completely sane?

oh Janielane more more…lol..
I love seeing the stuff Cindy writes she is such a pompous a$$ with her holier than thou bullchit

i know did anyone notice how often and how many people God talks directly too in this case…

Below is another “snippet” from Cindy’s emails regarding “The Someone Else Did It” duhfense.

Caylee was a loved child and when some one can prove to me that Caylee was put into the woods by her mother, we will talk. I’ve spoken to 5 people who will testify Caylee was not there in August and September and November.

Well, I have to confess that I really blasted her with my emails. But I also gained some insight as to the kind of people they are through her responses. I’m sure I said some things to her that the entire world wanted to scream at the time.

When did the duhfense start saying that someone else put Caylee’s body in the woods off Hopespring Drive?

Here is a snip from NG’s transcripts, very interesting:

http://archives.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0901/12/ng.01.html

GRACE: Joining me right now, Kathi Belich with WFTV. What can you tell me, Kathi?

KATHI BELICH, WFTV: Well, I watched 12 minutes` worth of video, listened to it. There is audio that tape. We were not permitted to record it. We were permitted to record about a minute-and-a-half of the video. But I heard on that video — at a point where you`re seeing the concrete blocks at the scene, I heard Dominic Casey, the Anthonys` private eye, say, It would be right here. The man who shot that video, private eye Jim Hoover, says that Dominic Casey told him that Caylee was dead and they were going to find her, and that`s what they were doing in that area on November 15th and November 16th.

GRACE: So Kathi, we have some of the video, but you saw the whole thing and you could hear it. You were disallowed from reproducing the audio.

BELICH: That`s right.

GRACE: Are you sure, Kathi Belich, that you heard the Anthonys` private investigator say, This is where it should be?

BELICH: I heard him say, It would be right here. And I listened to it again and again. And we were watching it on a big monitor and I stood with my ear right next to the speaker and then away from it. I listened to it several times so that I was sure. And what he says is, It would be right here.

GRACE: OK, what else did you see and hear on the video, Kathi Belich?

BELICH: On November 15th, Dominic Casey was milling about the scene. The focus seemed to be near these concrete blocks, which are there, just feet from where Caylee`s remains were found. He found some sort of a cloth of some kind. He lifted it with a knife, looked under it and then just sort of tossed it aside. He was looking around, and they seemed to be focused on these concrete blocks.

At this house, which — from what I understand, you have to drive to that house from the scene. It`s not close enough where you could walk comfortably. I couldn`t find out where that house is. But again, the Anthonys` private eye, Dominic Casey, seemed to be focused for some reason on concrete blocks that were behind this abandoned house, and he literally just moved the blocks out of the way with his hands. No gloves on his hands, moved some 2-by-4s, and he just took a garden trowel and he just started digging right into the dirt there, several inches down, you know, and then he stopped, and they looked around the house.

And then it goes to the next day, which is November 16th, which he comes back to the scene sort of dressed in a bush jacket and jeans, sort of ready to go through the woods now. And he goes into the woods, again focused on those concrete blocks, and he gets some sort of a metal rod and he starts just jamming it into the ground. And at some point — you know, a couple of times, it was all way down into the ground. A couple of times, it was getting sort of stuck and he was sort of forcing it. And then he — you know, he went back to the house and he did the same thing with that rod.

Now, I should also say that on the 15th, he was on his cell phone. And he was walking out of the woods. He was sort of crouched down. You can see the video. He was sort or crouched down, looking around in the woods, on the cell phone with someone. And of course, the big question is, who was that that he was talking to on the cell phone?

GRACE: OK, Liz, in the control room, do you have the video ready? Let`s see it. OK, there you are seeing the Anthony private investigator, Dominic Casey, looking through bags, trash bags, just feet away from where little Caylee`s remains were ultimately found. Take a look.

Now, his excuse for being out there was that he heard it was a location where the tot mom hung out with friends. So why is he digging through trash bags and dirt? That is from WFTV. That`s one of the Anthonys` private investigators rifling through trash bags and searching near the wooded area where Caylee`s remains were discovered four weeks later.

Back to Kathi Belich, who has seen the entire video. Kathi, what was his story to police as to why he`s there at the scene where her skeleton is found weeks before police get there?

BELICH: I don`t know what he told the police. I know what he told me, and now there are new reports of a different story. He told me that he was on the phone, actually, with his ill daughter. Now I guess that are there reports that he was claiming that he was on the phone with a psychic of some kind. But he told me that he was there merely to — first, he said he was going to rule it out as a location where one of Casey`s old high school friends had said she might have put a body, if she were going to do something like that. And then later, he sort of changed the story to he`s just ruling it out as a teen hangout. Now apparently, he`s saying that he went there because of a psychic tip, so…

GRACE: But why, everybody, would he be there if it were just a teen hangout? We are taking your calls live. More of that secretly recorded video we have just obtained when we get back.

Janielane said: { Feb 25, 2010 – 10:02:01 }

When did you get the answers from Cindy? Just curious.

May 10th, 2009, that’s why I was asking. I asked her who searched the woods and why would they be there and she said 3 members of TES and that there wasn’t any water standing.

Thanks Val

Looks like the duhfense started the nonsense in December 2008 after Caylee’s remains were found.

Janielane said: { Feb 25, 2010 – 10:02:18 }

Then it would be JW, Joseph Jordan and Laura Buchanan right?

Probably so FRG, she didn’t give me the 3 names, but it has to be those 3.

Janielane, what interests me most here is Cindy’s statement that:

“I’ve spoken to 5 people who will testify Caylee was not there in August and September and November”.

There is a definite indication here that Cindy knew in August, 2008, about the dump site. Considering that this was just weeks after Casey was arrested for the first time, how could she know (from one of 5) that the body wasn’t there?

We know she couldn’t have known about Roy Kronk’s tips in August because they were not “out there” at any time until the remains were discovered in December. This is what set’s my Hinky Meter off!

She may have, but her emails to me were on May 10, 2009. All this stuff about the area being searched already was in December 2008 wasn’t it?

When was Jorden posting on Scared Monkeys again? Wasn’t that how all of this came to light to the defense? Prior to that , I don’t believe that they had access to any TES records. It seemed as though these people, other than JW, didn’t go directly to the defense to offer up this info unsolicited.

I saw on OS’s blog this link. Somebody has set a donation website for donations for the Anthony’s. Isn’t that all they wanted all along??? Somebody else to pay their bills? This is sick.

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=47941808263&ref=search&sid=725016015.266122999..1#

I think that Facebook account was set up a while ago wasn’t it? Or is this a new one?

I’m not sure WSH, I stopped reading everything to do with this case for a long time because I was so angry at the Anthony’s seemingly getting away with all things criminal. I just recently found this site and have been here daily since last week trying to catch back up. I was actually shocked to see the info about the TES search in the emails from Cindy, I hadn’t read them again since she sent them until today.

Ritanita said: “I’ve spoken to 5 people who will testify Caylee was not there in August and September and November”.

I think this statement from Cindy could be interpreted 2 different ways.

1) She spoke to 5 people ….. sometime in August, sometime in September and sometime in November. Meaning she spoke to them on a day during those months.

2) She spoke to 5 people ….. who will say they were there sometime in August, etc. Meaning she spoke to them after the body was found and they said they were there during those times.

I think she made that statement after the body was found which leads me to think she meant #2.

I agree with you Lily on #2

my husband’s first wife who had worked all of her life and had a cancerous brain tumor and spent the rest of her life in a wheelchair and then completely bedridden for many years and then passed away… well it took him many years ( 6 to be exact ) to get any kind of disability for her ……and yet this healthy obnoxious woman, Cindy Anthony ,can go on a cruise, babysit for a kid in her home , fly to nyc & calif and do tv interviews can get disability so quick and easily it makes me furious…….. This disability claim needs to be looked into by someone in authority ……

Patricia

Sorry to hear about your circumstances. We are under the impression here that she is covered by her co’s disability insurance. Getting disability through the government is infinitely more difficult.

I just went into the website on Facebook that is asking for donations for the scamanthonys and reported it to facebook as being a scam and it is…. everyone needs to report this and maybe they will it take down.

WSH….. company or govt doesnt really matter…. because if she is too sick ( mentally or physically) to work then she shouldnt be able to take cruises….. babysit for other children…… appear on tv shows… etc..

The terms of a private short-term/long-term disability claim through Cindy’s insurance with Gentiva are not governed by anything other than the discretion of the private insurance company. As I’ve described above recently – these benefits would not be difficult for Cindy to receive under the terms of most private insurance under the circumstances. I’m sure she is under the care of doctors who have recommended this action to the insurance company and they have agreed.

State and federal disability benefits are a whole different ball of wax. Cindy is NOT receiving these benefits.

Janielane, thanks for the context. I would go with #2 also.

One of my favorite expressions about such situations is:

“Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.”

A thousand people can say they didn’t see the remains, it doesn’t mean they weren’t there.

It’s a basic premise.

The need for an ongoing prescription for anti-depressants which may impair her judgment as well as her work product, would be enough for some private insurers to determine her unable to work, and approved for short term benefits.

Rumor and gossip, so take it with a grain of salt, I suppose. Also, some person set up a facebook page to ask for donations for the Anthony’s mortgage. She is apparently from Akron OH :

http://justice4caylee.forumotion.net/rumors-gossip-innuendo-f27/rumors-concerning-the-anthony-foreclosure-t5136.htm

If someone might be so kind as to refresh my memory — which so oftentimes fails me, these days, but haven’t we been lead to believe that the defense team, to which I am including Conway, hasn’t been paid anything out of the Anthony’s pockets, with the exception of a small retainer from Casey, in the beginning?

Has not the defense been paid from the proceeds from the sale of Caylee’s photos? And if this be so, how is it possible that the Anthony’s are broke, for all of the money they’ve made from ongoing donations, talk show appearances, sale of their own photographs, etc.?

I tend to think that if they are letting the house go, it’s really no big deal, as they have the means to move on and quite possibly, quite nicely. Granted, I could be wrong, but thus far they have lacked nothing, nor have they displayed a need of anything. One does not go on a cruise, purchase diamond studs, obtain tattoos, etc., when one’s home is in repo, unless one really doesn’t give a hoot nor a hanny.

Seems to me they stand to gain in letting the house go while decrying such poverty as could well make them a fortune.

Allowing foreclosure is a financial decision (someimes out of our control) but Suze Ormond, for one, has said that it isn’t always that stupid if you are upside down on your property. That being said, I do not think it is Cindy Anthony’s nature to be a dead beat. having lost her home in Ohio probably taught her how to put the property in her name thinking she could keep it that way. I would say that she has had legal advice regarding that asset because her mom said that Cindy didn’t want to give George any interest in it (divorce attorney’s advice?). There is probably much more looming on her horizon than we know about that would make her want to play games with her only major asset, whether it be to deny George or seek a loan modification or have the “Foundation” purchase the property at auction, she’s had some input from at least one outside source.

If we look back 30-45 days prior to the June 1, 2009 payment that was not made, the only occurrence I see on the timeline is April 13th the DP was reinstated and shortly thereafter the Motion to Compel Cindy to complete her depo in the ZG case. Hardly obvious reasons to default on a mortgage, so while it doesn’t make sense to us, it must make sense to C. A.

Her life will never be the same again – that’s punishment in and of itself. (I have my comfort zone all secure – me and my kitties watch and read their suffering and pray nothing like this ever happens in our family. Thank you God.)

I hate to keep repeating myself, but this has to be one of the best Casey Anthony interviews EVER!! I never get tired of listening to it!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94gy86c1KCE&NR=1

“State and federal disability benefits are a whole different ball of wax. Cindy is NOT receiving these benefits.”

Hi Lily,

You’re probably 100% right but I’m just wondering how you can be so certain exactly what type of disability she’s on. Are you certain because you think it would be impossible for Cindy to have the Federal benefits since it takes so long to be approved or is it something else more concrete? Really just curious! Thanks.

Janielane,

Evidentally this is a new one because it is specifically for the mortgage. Haven’t seen it myself but that’s what I hear is the topic of the site.

I don’t click on their stuff… ever. Never have and never will!

chicago judy

Lately I have gone back and watched & listened to all the videos & audios and it is amazing how matter of fact and cold Casey is and all of the lies that have been told by her and her family. It is scary that people like this live among us.
Sweet Angel Caylee, I am so glad that you now are in the loving arms of our Heavenly Father

JennyB in one of her depos Cindy stated that she works for a large corporation (Gentiva) and they have granted her long term disability for a maximum of 2 years. I don’t have a link to the particular depo, but it was likely the last one. I’m pretty sure it was the same one where they asked her about money earned from 48 Hours.

Thanks so much Nosy! I was certainly wrong on this one…. wish I could delete all my prior comments. lol.

Is there anyway to tell who set up the Facebook Account? There is no info on it telling where or how to send a donation.

janie:

http://tinyurl.com/yads8xh
The site is registered to a Jennifer Kynett from Akron, OH.

interesting comment re: the abandoned2-3 yr.old child found in delaware—–now possibly linked to burnt female body found in NY.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PViUelH9rUU&feature=sub

..” how de LE link the 2 cases?”

..the former SA says : ” you’d be SURPRISED how articulate little kids can be”.

..in kc’s case——–i think caylee was becoming more and more ‘articulate’ re: what she and kc were up to all day———-possibly the reason for the ‘big fight” june 15th ?

..cindy had spent the day with caylee——-long car ride to/from mt. dora—–caylee was perhaps very chatty on that drive.

Chicago Judy:

…and this is also a fan favourite!
..cindy throwing anyone and everyone—–under the bus—–except maybe her dogs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzYtMTDqZQ4&feature=player_embedded

ElleJay, from the looks of the comments on that Facebook account I don’t think there will be many monetary donations, but plenty of people are donating their opinions of the latest Scam.

Ellejay… that is hysterical! If only the FBI would have talked to her like that!!! I’m going back there to watch more. Thanks!

This is the Anthony 2009 tax:
http://www.docstoc.com/docs/26608015/Casey-Anthony-Cindy-Athony-tax-2009-house

Ellejay – that was my feeling from the start – that Caylee had begun to tell her grandparents things Casey was only too happy to keep secret.

Maybe this is where the spiteful duct taping comes in – to shut her up for ever!

And now for something completely different:

There is a show on MTV called “TEEN MOM” that I was alerted to by a pal for the reason that one of the teen moms and her mother appear to have a dysfunctional relationship which closely mirrors the relationship that Casey had with Cindy, particularly with regard to financial set up, child rearing responsibilities being both usurped by the controlling mother and, too, being happily pawned off onto the mother by the irresponsible, narcissistic, social/boy-hunting teen.

While often at heated odds on the show, the two were clearly –and scarily–similar in personality.

Well…
I was just alerted to the fact that the mother (the responsible one who was paying the bills, basically raising the baby for the most part, but who is also a very controlling, passive aggressive and difficult character to say the least) was recently charged with STRANGLING HER DAUGHTER. Sound familiar? (And I have to admit that I watched a few episodes of the show to see the relationship in action, because it helped me to imagine what was really going on at Hope Spring drive behind the scenes and before Caylee met her ultimate, sad fate.)

Here is the fallout:

Debra Danielson — the mother of 18-year-old “Teen Mom” Farrah Abraham — struck a plea deal after she was accused of choking her daughter … and as part of the deal, she wants her knives back.

Mom of MTV ‘Teen Mom’ Cops Plea, Gets Knives

Danielson agreed to a deferred prosecution at Pottawattamie County court in Iowa today — meaning if she has no other legal issues and complies with her probation, the case will be dropped.

She also pled guilty to a lesser charge and got a suspended sentence of 30 days in jail. As part of the plea deal, the prosecution had to return two kitchen knives that were seized as evidence.

Danielson was arrested last month after she allegedly choked her daughter Farrah, who appeared on the MTV show “Teen Mom.”

Read more: http://www.tmz.com/#ixzz0gfRVRGLE

I have a hard time believing Cindy would attempt to strangle Casey over the money Casey stole from her grandfather’s account.
I also suspect that Caylee may have communicated something (or several things) to Cindy on the last day of her life (and perhaps even before that)… hence the purposeful, cold, calculated use of several pieces of duct tape in the murder. Her killer’s message was loud and clear. She meant to “shut her up”–for good.

“Spiteful Bitch”, indeed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qmtRyxl5RY&feature=related

Is this not so, very “Casey and Cindy”esque??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXgOcX5exIs

sorry, but this is too good not to share it

Silver

Wow the parallels. The difference, of course, is that the girl on that show is very immature like teenagers of that age can be. But I have always kind of felt that somehow Casey’s development was delayed/stunted. She seemed to behave like a teenager.

The similarities go on…

Father of the baby is allegedly dead and teen mom does not allow his family any contact with the baby girl.

Parents of the teen mom recently split.

This baby is in a potentially dangerous situation.

Debra Danielson, mother of MTV ‘Teen Mom’ Farrah Abraham, arrested after hitting daughter – report

BY Gina Salamone
DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER

Tuesday, January 19th 2010, 10:51 AM
Farrah Abraham with her baby Sophia. Abraham’s mom, Debra Danielson, was arrested after allegedly choking and hitting Farrah.
She stars as a struggling single parent on “Teen Mom,” but Farrah Abraham has serious issues with her own mother.

The 18-year-old’s mom allegedly choked and hit Abraham Saturday in their Iowa home, according to the state’s Daily Nonpareil.

Debra Danielson, 54, was arrested on suspicion of domestic abuse/serious assault after the incident, according to police reports obtained by the Nonpareil, which also state that Abraham had “multiple cuts” on her lips.

The women reportedly fought over “childcare issues and other problems.”

They’re often seen arguing on MTV’s reality show, “Teen Mom,” where Abraham’s life as mom to baby daughter Sophia is documented along with those of three other young mothers.

Scenes center on shouting matches between them, in which Danielson urges her daughter to stay home with the baby more, instead of going out with her friends or on dates.

In one episode of the show’s predecessor, “16 & Pregnant,” Danielson was caught by MTV cameras smacking Abraham in the mouth during an argument in a car.

During Saturday’s scuffle, Danielson allegedly tossed an MTV shirt at her daughter, which landed near baby Sophia, who started to cry. This caused Abraham to go off on her mom, who then allegedly took her by the throat and hit her on the right side of her head and mouth.

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/gossip/2010/01/19/2010-01-19_debra_danielson_mother_of_mtv_teen_mom_.html#ixzz0gffGlq38

oy

wonder what mother dearest would like like in a depo??? LOL scary stuff there! My question: why aren’t these people embarrassed to be seen in public? Are they THAT crazy?

KC’s docket:

02/26/2010 Notice of Provision of Supplemental Discovery

http://myclerk.myorangeclerk.com/CaseDetail.aspx?CaseID=6236234

Now, who filed this? Defense or Prosecution??? Hmmmm

Dr. Lillian Glass “Will A Book Deal For George Anthony Help Get His House Out of Foreclosure?”

http://drlillianglassbodylanguageblog.wordpress.com/2010/02/26/will-a-book-deal-for-george-anthony-help-get-his-house-out-of-foreclosure/

Sorry, I’m bored after the snow….This link is interesting:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?s=3645b71fff2d66473c31bc2764b92ec8&t=96633

Jose Baez has his own podcast. “What’s juicy? What’s sexy?”

FRG, the state has released more discovery to the defense. Do you realize that we have not seen ONE page of discovery from the defense???

Yikes…

Well, lets see. They have discovered how to get on the media tour bus, they have discovered how to make a fool out of themselves, they have discovered how fast a rat jumps from a sinking ship, they have discovered how expensive it is to defend a baby killer, they have discovered ………………. not much of anything else that I can tell.

hey all….

re: secret delayed discovery mystery…O.K. This is a “bombshell”!

LEONARD PADILLA IS THE BIGGEST IDIOT IN THE FREE WORLD!

He actually stated on Nancy Grace tonight that Judge Strickland might be pondering the Roy-Kronk-Daisy-Chain-Casey “confession”-overheard-at -the-jail “conspiracy” “EVIDENCE” —– AND that JOHN ALLEN KNEW ABOUT IT AT THE “LITTLE ECON FAKE DISCOVERY” ….?! WTH!?

And, that of course, is the reason why JOHN ALLEN went off on LEONARD PADILLA at the “Little Econ” ( ACCORDING TO LEONARD-THE IDIOT) because JOHN ALLEN IS PART OF THE “CONSPIRACY” regarding Roy Kronk “mysteriously discovering” the body !

How LEONARD PADILLA could make such a slanderous , DEFAMATORY and totally ABSURD statement against JOHN ALLEN on national television is beyond GALL!

ivoire

.that IS insane—–how on earth can he STILL be believing his OWN ridiculous daisy-chain ??

..LP..here’s a chain…WITH actual links—-kc ( KNOWN to caylee) —murders caylee—-IN the anthony home ( which is known to BOTH kc and caylee) —uses duct tape, FROM said home–to wrap around ( the KNOWN to kc child ‘s mouth/nose)—wraps child in winnie the pooh blanket FROM said home—puts in a laundry hamper FROM the anthony garage/home—–shoves this into garbage bags possibly FROM the anthony home——throws it all into the trunk of HER car—-then tosses like trash into the woods down the street from the ANTHONY home…

..the “chain”, starts with kc——–ends with kc…

..every now and then i start to LIKE LP again——–and then he does something like this…..

Hope this isn’t too off-topic…
Just a little something that happened tonight I’d like to share….. Being a full-time single dad of 7yr. old twin girls can be a hand-full of daily trials and tribulations….today it was one of the million&one questions days I normally am asked x 2!
I was cooking the SpaghettiOs and heating up the garlic bread (their favorite….never a bite left!)….Nancy Grace was doing her thing on the tube in the background talking up the Casey case….everything I know about already since I’m an informed “Hinky” ……one of my girls said “who is that little girl”? (they had a picture of Caylee in her bathing suit with a big ole smile)….I said “her name is Caylee”….not thinking much about anything but burning the garlic bread…she said “she sure is cute”….I agreed…and she asked “how old is she”?…it started to hit me that I was starting to go into uncharted territory and this is one of those million&one answers I so whole-heartedly tried to give the truth… I said “about 2yrs. old”…then the bam-bam question came out of my awarded “Supreme Reader”…”why does it say In Remembrance Of under the picture”?…………I then tried my best to explain to her that she was not alive anymore….logically the next question…”what happened to her”?…..I gave her my patent answer that sometimes people do bad things…like when I tell both of them that they can be snatched out of the front yard if they decide to go out and play without me out there with them….at that point her sister said “who killed her”?….I realized the predicament I was in…so I told them the truth as I know it….that her mom may have done it….and logically one asked “why”?…..I told them they think she just wanted to go out and party and not really wanted to be a mom….I got the most logical response I never thought I’d get from a 7yr. old….”Why didn’t she just give her to someone who would take care of her”!!…..I was speechless and welling up with tears…the words that came out of me from somewhere I’m still not sure where….”That Jesus is taking care of her now and to always remember there are bad people out there who can do harm to you but as long as I am around I will do my best to protect them and if I could’nt Jesus will….I think my mom & dad must’ve threw that line on me a long time ago!
I have tears in my eyes and my heart aches as I try to type these words….3 yrs. ago my ex-wife decided she didn’t want to be a mother anymore….drugs and possibly a bi-polar thing….3 re-habs and alot of money wasted ….besides that #1 these 2 girls from her own flesh were not and are still not of any importance. I do my best to raise them right. I feel I made a mistake to have Nancy Grace teach them something I felt they were not ready for….I try to be as real as I can be for what they may be able to wrap their little minds around. Today they reminded me why I told the ex to get out and stay out….fortunately she’s a thousand miles away right now!….most likely in jail! I feel guilty at times cause she is their mom and always will be. I hope one day she wakes up. Until then I am not going to chance it.
Sorry to rant…it’s too real. I probably need some sort of therapy to unbottle it all….I learned a lesson today….Pay attention to what my girls may be watching on TV!!! No Nancy Grace!!!

wow, WHAAA…

..what a predicament for you…i think you did the right thing, answering their instant questions on the fly——-truthfully.

..of course tomorrow—–or next month—-as they process the info, they may have more questions coming out of no where—–don’t scare them, be gentle.

..it sounds to me like you’re doing a fantastic job with your girls—( hey, we’ve all burnt garlic toast——and yet it’s STILL their favourite!)

Re Leonard Padilla , Ivoire:said:

He actually stated on Nancy Grace tonight that Judge Strickland might be pondering the Roy-Kronk-Daisy-Chain-Casey “confession”-overheard-at -the-jail “conspiracy” “EVIDENCE” —– AND that JOHN ALLEN KNEW ABOUT IT AT THE “LITTLE ECON FAKE DISCOVERY” ….?! WTH!?

Padilla is driving me mad. He is also messing with the Haleigh Cummings case. Long story. Is he totally ready for “retirement” or is his need to be the central player in these two cases overriding whatever good sense we hear he USED to have.

I completely fell off my chair tonight after his diatribe on Nancy Grace re LE and their “conspiracy” with Roy Kronk. And his assertion that the case is falling apart for the prosecution because of where Kronk obtained his information about Caylee’s body’s locationat (the jail). Tell me Leonard is not working for the Anthiny defense! No telling what he is doing in the Cummings case, but he needs to get off the scene.

Somebody in LE needs to shut this man up in both the Anthony and Cummings cases.
I guess that would be against the free speech thingy, though.

Sigh. “Just when I think I’ve gotten out, they pull me back in!” (Apologies to any “Godfather III” writers.)

Ivoire, as you know Padilla is also messing in the Haleigh Cummings case.

padilla made absolutely no sense:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8eIoZbhG9c&feature=digest

..@ 5:50 he starts talking about crystal, brandon—-”the judge is very concerned that they are not contacted, tampered, by the defense…”

..i was SHOCKED that NG just let that statement of his go–(???)——without asking, WHO are crystal, brandon ????

..i think he has his cases crossed—–crystal ( sheffeld) —ron cummings ex..? he has put himself smack in the middle of the haleigh cummings case recently.

..it was a bizarre NG, even her “let’s unleash the lawyers!” and her producers etc—-it seemed like she arrived on set 1 minute before air time and didn’t have a clue as to who might say what..

Now, you good folk are simply cooking Armadillo – uh, I mean Padilla – a little past well done for no good reason. Come on, how else can he stay a regular on NG? He has to keep up his Casey case meddling, conspiracy theory peddling, daisy chain gerrymandering, to be of any interest to Nancy! How else is the poor fellow to stay in the lime light?

Ritanita said: { Feb 26, 2010 – 07:02:06 }

Yikes indeed Ritanita!!! Defense will turn over their discoveries at the last minute, I mean date required by the Fl law for sure, they are slimy balls and for sure they are up to something. I know almost to nothing about laws but from my understanding defense has to turn over their discoveries to the Prosecution prior to trial.

Elljay: Padilla was referring to Kronk’s ex-wife. Her name is Crystal. Brandon is Kronk and Crystal’s son. Supposedly, Kronk called Brandon three weeks or so before finding Caylee’s remains, and at that time, Kronk told Brandon he knew where Caylee was and he told Brandon he was going to be on TV for finding her. The defense has already interviewed Crystal and Brandon, and the video of those interviews (or parts of them anyway) have been released. The defense wants to use Crystal and Brandon to try to point the finger at Kronk as the murderer.

Well, it seems confirmed that Padilla is the ‘source’ for the National Enquirer story.
I wonder what he got paid.

Does anyone else think, if his daisy chain theory were true, that anyone from the state or LE would actually share this info with a ‘town crier’ like him? I don’t see it.

Last, a question for Silver: what is the likelihood that a judge would permit the delay on release of info such as this? Would he purposefully delay access to info which could potentially result in certain evidence being inadmissible during the trial?

WSH said: { Feb 27, 2010 – 08:02:06 }

I agree with you. I have read, I can’t think of who posted a reasonable comment (maybe Valhall?) about this theory of Mr. Kronk have been tipped off and I don’t believe the “daisy chain theory” to be true. I have never believed it… unless there is “proof” and we don’t know. It’s hard to believe, in my opinion, of course.

William…heh,heh. Cooking the Armadillo!

<>

Well it’s peculiar. After his bombshell on NG, the Armadillo didn’t even get a sensible question out of Miz Nancy! She likes to put him in the spotlight and ignore him. I think she’s afraid of being sued.

She’s also still a bleeding heart for the Anthonys. She lists all the things they’ve done wrong during the investigation, and how their focus of their hatred has been on LE and the public and the media instead of upon the murderer of their grandchild — wherever he/she may be. Then, by golly, Nancy brings up that old canard about their being in such a terrible place and we can’t walk in their shoes, blah, blah.

Find another pair of grandparents of a missing/murdered grandbaby who have acted like this pair, Miz Nancy.

I didn’t watch the show, just read about it. I bet NG IS being careful not to be sued again.
Agreed. That’s probably why she doesn’t go in certain directions.

Hey all….

Recently , it was mentioned somewhere that Rob Dick had stated that LEONARD–THE VILLAGE IDIOT — and BOZO are on the phone almost daily….?

Gee, so I guess LEONARD PADILLA a.k.a. “MORON EXTRAORDINAIRE” is part of the defense team ….What a huge LOSER!….

I really could not believe that he had the gall to actually state that JOHN ALLEN has perpetrated fraud and conspriacy in this case by “knowing ” that Caylee’s body was in the woods ( prior to it being found) and that he somehow knew the information would be “daisy-chained” to Roy Kronk..How absurd!!

Maybe LEONARD PADILLA has some stake in a contingency “fee arrangement” with BOZO in the selling of her-made-for t.v-mini-series-P.O.S.-LIFE STORY-?….

I just had to vent!

ivoire

Wow

If not true, Padilla is really putting himself in a position to be sued by Allen, no?

Oh ,and regarding the white-trash-hillbilliy-KIN of Roy Kronk who have all banded together to defame and slander him regarding that he supposedly “knew where her body was”….

Personally, I think the whole LYING-WHITE TRASH- BUNCH have made a conscious effort to SCREW him over for revenge purposes only ( and that no such conversations occurred of him definitively “knowing ” where the body was)…

Horrible people!

ivoire

It seems that many will do almost anything to be a part of this case. How many semi-involved in the saga are looking for a reality show? “Kronk’s Krazies” would seem to be a winner.

Well, maybe just one appearance on Jerry Springer would do it.

Jill Kerley spoke to LE on Thursday:

http://www.wftv.com/news/22673799/detail.html

Padilla has lost his marbles. His daisy chain theory changes with the wind. At one time he said it was involving Kronk’s supervisor who he says is a neighbor of the Anthonys, then a jail employee who he says is Kronk’s girlfriend and now he’s suggesting John Allen and the whole OCSO are behind it.

Kronk first went to the remains site on August 11th so if he was given a tip in this “daisy chain”, it was in August. Is Padilla really suggesting that the investigators were aware of where Caylee’s remains were for four months and just sat on it, wasting their precious time dilligently following up on every lead and every tip and ultimately allowing the evidence to be destroyed by the environment. It’s ludicrous and Nancy Grace shouldn’t be allowing him to make these accusations without calling him out on how nonsensical they are. I think Ivoire’s right. Leonard has his finger in the pie.

» NosyParker said: { Feb 27, 2010 – 10:02:26 }

That’s what I think too, Nosy. The defense can’t go out and talk about this because it would be an admission of guilt, so are they using Padilla to cast dispersions, or is he acting rogue? If any of this were true, it would benefit the defense in that the evidence relating to the remains might be tossed out.

WTF is going on with him?

» WSH said: { Feb 27, 2010 – 08:02:06 }

Well, it seems confirmed that Padilla is the ’source’ for the National Enquirer story.
I wonder what he got paid.

Does anyone else think, if his daisy chain theory were true, that anyone from the state or LE would actually share this info with a ‘town crier’ like him? I don’t see it.

Last, a question for Silver: what is the likelihood that a judge would permit the delay on release of info such as this? Would he purposefully delay access to info which could potentially result in certain evidence being inadmissible during the trial?

*****
It is not the nature of the evidence that the judge is considering. It is whether or not there is “good cause” for the DELAY.

Here, Strickland found that the State came forward with good cause for up to a 30 day delay –and instructed that if the good cause no longer existed before the running of the 30 days, the State should turn this discoverable evidence over to the defense forthwith.
He also allowed for the possibility that 30 days might not be sufficient, and left it to the State to file for additional time if the good cause for delay continues past the 30 day period.

Yep, then it leaves the possibility of nearly anything then.

Oh well.

Valhall,

I have a question for you and I apologize if you have debated this… do you have any article on DC’s phone calls? We all know that Ginnete Lucas and DC’s phone records were released, have you compared their phone calls if DC was really talking to the Psychic as he stated to LE?
Thank you very much.

I think “rogue” describes Padilla’s action perfectly. If I remember correctly, he also did not want to be deposed and claimed privelege; does anyone know if he was deposed, and if that was released yet?

Just watched that Nancy Grace youtube clip….

Oh, brother.

As usual, the woman is lost in the din of her own hyperbole.

The state didn’t seek to have the evidence PERMANENTLY sealed, for goodness sake.

They merely sought a DELAY. The Rules ALLOW them to do so –and allow the judge too grant the delay request under certain enumerated circumstances, as neatly set forth by Val in her piece on the issue.

Not that they would seek to have the court permanently seal evidence against Casey (just to clarify and not cause confusion).

Just because she is unfamiliar with the Florida Rules–and hasn’t bothered to take any time to educate herself– doesn’t mean she has a “BOMBSHELL!”

Whatever it is will be turned over with plenty of time for the defense to review it before trial–which is a long, long way off.

To the Legal minds:

I keep getting stuck on something here with regards to this ‘new evidence’… All the evidence that has been released so far has been released months after LE recieved it (like this latest doc dump) and I thought it only had to be released to the defense once they were done testing/analyzing/collaborating it….so if that was the case, why would this new evidence be any different?

So apparantly, all that has already been done with this new evidence, and that’s why they have 15 days to release it…is that correct? So it can’t be that they still need to check something out, collaborate someone’s story, or run some forensic testing on this new evidence, right? That has to be done, hence the requirement to release.

So, there is something about this new evidence that either implicates another in a different crime, or someone’s identity needs to be protected. Because if it was just new evidence against Casey, and they had completed their investigative work, they would release it.

Seems that NG’s update last night has given Mr. L. Padilla time to figure out a new twist to his daisychain idea, and he’s now suggesting that OSCO knew where the body was when Padilla was doing his thing on the Little Econ.

Compare what he said last night, to the last time he was on NG, not that long ago, about the Roy Kronk situation. He’s now advanced his theory to fit with the ‘secret’ info, and now that ‘secret sealed info’, in his no-so-humble-opinion (NSHO just for LP) involves what else, but his jailhouse to Kronk daisey-chain theory and says the judge doesn’t know what to do with the jail mess.

Now, Padilla talks about the sister, someone named Susan, son, and others, as wanting to avoid being talked to by the defense. HTH!! Someone ought to chart the guy’s most recent inconsistent statements, and suggest that NG pay attention and re-evaluate Padilla’s worth to her show and to this case discussion.

Yes, Kleat, as if ‘consistency’ matters to NG…she is about viewership, period. That’s show business! I guess LP adds a little different ‘spice’ to her stew of sensationalists.

Valhall Silverspnr

Is the defense required to turn over their evidence/witness in court only? Or can they turn it over to the prosecution?

It has been assumed that the defense didn’t turn it over, yet it seems to be a big coincidence that the defenses deadline was the beginning of February and

On February 3rd the prosecution submitted the motion to meet the judge behind closed doors because they received new evidence.

IS THIS ALSO A COINCIDENCE? :

On Febuary 24th 2010 Judge authorizes the 30 days delay in disclosure
Febuary 24th 2010
LAKE COUNTY, Fla. — Lake County deputies were at an Orlando police officer’s home for a child porn investigation Wednesday. The officer’s home is in Tavares. He hasn’t been arrested.
Police say there was child pornography downloaded to a personal computer at his home, but the police officer’s work laptop was also confiscated.
http://www.wftv.com/news/22661161/detail.html

AND

State police arrested 22-year-old Jason Wilfong (exclusive video), who lives at the home with his parents. The Seminole County Sheriff’s Office said he has been a dispatcher for them since 2007, but due to the nature of the charges his employment was immediately terminated.

http://www.wftv.com/news/22657856/detail.html

if any of these these two officers had anything to do with this case…..then…What?

» WHAAA?? said: { Feb 27, 2010 – 01:02:55 }

Unfortunately, the world we now live in necessitates educating our children about things that we would prefer not to, but for their own protection they need to know. My two sons are in their 20′s now, but I remember feeling the same way when they were small. It is sad, but it is necessary. And to be a responsible parent, you do whatever it takes to keep your children safe. And I think you did just that in as low-key a manner as you could. So sorry about your ex – she is the one missing out on their lives, and perhaps one day will regret that decision.

» Midwest Mom said: { Feb 27, 2010 – 01:02:16 }

I’m not as smart as Val or Silver, but I’ll throw my two cents in:

If the defense had that info and it was THEIR discovery submitted, then it is not likely that the state would argue for a delay in giving the defense back their own discovery. That doesn’t make sense.

If either the officer, or the dispatcher were involved in the case, then I would guess it could complicate the state’s case, depending on the level of their involvement. But the fact that the judge agreed to the delay, and the reporting of the investigation of the officer occurred on the same day, makes it seem less likely to me. In other words, the reporters who talked to the neighbors already know who the officer in question is, so that cat is out of the bag so to speak. The second guy’s name (the dispatcher) and photo were already released so it would seem there would be no point in the judge allowing the delay if it was related to his activities.

But we’ll find out what it is eventually.

Maybe Val & Silver can help. I can’t even understand what I just wrote!

wsh, I understood what you wrote thank you. it is all so confusing.
It seems like the defense squawked about the Closed door meeting with Judge Strickland, and i haven’t heard about the defense having a problem with the 30 day delay- not that they could do anything about it.

I am so grateful that they are cracking down on these pedophiles! Pedophiles are the scum of society and more dangerous when they are in the position of authority like law enforcement. Victims become more at a disadvantage due to the fact that they have zero power and who do they turn to to report the offense? who would people believe more? an officer of the law or the innocent victim who feel they don’t have a voice.

what ever is going on I support the florida watchgroup who is finally taking a stand and cracking down on cops around the county.

I am shocked that this is not all over the true crime boards more in the media, there should be threads to voice our opinions– but there is not. Something is broke in our system, our children are being ripped from our homes, killed and other disgusting things.

It will stay broken as long as we stay quite and pretend that it doesn’t exist.

google cops child porn- somebody is making a huge difference just in the two months of 2010

» notagrandma said: { Feb 27, 2010 – 01:02:39 }

To the Legal minds:

I keep getting stuck on something here with regards to this ‘new evidence’… All the evidence that has been released so far has been released months after LE recieved it (like this latest doc dump) and I thought it only had to be released to the defense once they were done testing/analyzing/collaborating it….so if that was the case, why would this new evidence be any different?

…..

*****
The date that LE receives evidence has no bearing on when the PROSECUTION (which is wholly separate) is obligated to turn over discoverable information (witness lists, statements, etc, etc, etc) to the defense.

Note that the state has a CONTINUING DUTY to disclose.

Per Rule 3.220, in pertinent part:

“If, subsequent to compliance with the rules, a party discovers
additional witnesses or material that the party would have been under a duty to disclose or produce at the time of the previous compliance, the party shall promptly disclose or produce the witnesses or material in the same manner as required under these rules for initial discovery.
(k) Court May Alter Times. The court may alter the times for compliance with any discovery under these rules on good cause shown.
(l) Protective Orders.
(1) Motion to Restrict Disclosure of Matters. On a showing of good cause, the
court shall at any time order that specified disclosures be restricted, deferred, or exempted from discovery, that certain matters not be inquired into, that the scope of the deposition be limited to certain matters, that a deposition be sealed and after being sealed be opened only by order of the court, or make such other order as is appropriate to protect a witness from harassment, unnecessary inconvenience, or invasion of privacy, including prohibiting the taking of a deposition. All material and information to which a party is entitled, however, must be disclosed in time to permit the party to make beneficial use of it.”

midwestmom-

The defense has discovery obligations here as well, so no- they cannot wait until trial to disclose discoverable information to the state.

(c) Disclosure to Prosecution.
(1) After the filing of the charging document and subject to constitutional limitations, the
court may require a defendant to:
(A) appear in a lineup;
(B) speak for identification by witnesses to an offense;
(C) be fingerprinted;
(D) pose for photographs not involving re-enactment of a scene;
(E) try on articles of clothing;
(F) permit the taking of specimens of material under the defendant’s fingernails;
(G) permit the taking of samples of the defendant’s blood, hair, and other materials
of the defendant’s body that involves no unreasonable intrusion thereof;
(H) provide specimens of the defendant’s handwriting; and
(I) submit to a reasonable physical or medical inspection of the defendant’s body.
(2) If the personal appearance of a defendant is required for the foregoing purposes,
reasonable notice of the time and location of the appearance shall be given by the prosecuting attorney to the defendant and his or her counsel. Provisions may be made for appearances for such purposes in an order admitting a defendant to bail or providing for pretrial release.
(d) Defendant’s Obligation.
(1) If a defendant elects to participate in discovery, either through filing the appropriate
notice or by participating in any discovery process, including the taking of a discovery deposition, the following disclosures shall be made:
(A) Within 15 days after receipt by the defendant of the Discovery Exhibit furnished
by the prosecutor pursuant to subdivision (b)(1)(A) of this rule, the defendant shall furnish to the prosecutor a written list of the names and addresses of all witnesses whom the defendant expects to call as witnesses at the trial or hearing. When the prosecutor subpoenas a witness whose name has been furnished by the defendant, except for trial subpoenas, the rules applicable to the taking of depositions shall apply.
(B) Within 15 days after receipt of the prosecutor’s Discovery Exhibit the defendant
shall serve a written Discovery Exhibit which shall disclose to and permit the prosecutor to inspect, copy, test, and photograph the following information and material that is in the defendant’s possession or control:
(i) the statement of any person listed in subdivision (d)(1)(A),
other than that of the defendant;
(ii) reports or statements of experts made in connection with the
particular case, including results of physical or mental examinations and of scientific tests, experiments, or comparisons; and
(iii) any tangible papers or objects that the defendant intends to use in the
hearing or trial.
(2) The prosecutor and the defendant shall perform their obligations under this rule in a
manner mutually agreeable or as ordered by the court.
(3) The filing of a motion for protective order by the prosecutor will automatically stay the
times provided for in this subdivision. If a protective order is granted, the defendant may, within 2 days thereafter, or at any time before the prosecutor furnishes the information or material that is the subject of the motion for protective order, withdraw the defendant’s notice of discovery and not be required to furnish reciprocal discovery.
(e) Restricting Disclosure. The court on its own initiative or on motion of counsel shall deny or
partially restrict disclosures authorized by this rule if it finds there is a substantial risk to any person of physical harm, intimidation, bribery, economic reprisals, or unnecessary annoyance or embarrassment resulting from the disclosure, that outweighs any usefulness of the disclosure to either party.
(f) Additional Discovery. On a showing of materiality, the court may require such other discovery to the parties as justice may require.
(g) Matters Not Subject to Disclosure.
(1) Work Product. Disclosure shall not be required of legal research or of records,
correspondence, reports, or memoranda to the extent that they contain the opinions, theories, or conclusions of the prosecuting or defense attorney or members of their legal staffs.
(2) Informants. Disclosure of a confidential informant shall not be required unless the confidential informant is to be produced at a hearing or trial or a failure to disclose the informant’s identity will infringe
the constitutional rights of the defendant.

*****
As to your other comments…
Quite a leap to link those news stories to this case.

Silver -
Thanks so much for that clarification! And THAT’s why it takes lawyers (and not construction consultants) to do this type of work! LOL

and that explains the state’s “we can’t give them what we don’t have” referring to the information that the FBI had yet to turn over to them. So, once the prosecution gets it, they have 15 days to turn it over. And whatever they have (secret stuff) has been through all the proper channels before being submitted to the prosecution…in a nutshell.

Thanks again.

ChicagoJudy said: { Feb 25, 2010 – 02:02:42 }

Hi everyone. Long time lurker, new poster. Love this site.

CJ, I listened to the interview. She talks like it’s just an ordinary conversation. No emotions. How he refrained from reaching over and grabbing her throat from sheer frustration is beyond me.

Did you pick up on the 2 different answers KC gave when asked about Juliete Lewis? First, KC claims she works as an event coordinator with Universal. She also said Juliete is an event coordinator, present tense. When asked about JL’s phone number, again she hesitates, states off hand she doesn’t know it (typical diversion when asked about digits) and that it changed because she moved. JL is sub leasing her apartment now.

Her story is filled with a plethora of inconsistencies. No shock there. Just amazing how you listen enough, you learn something new.

To the folks following “Teen Mom” in relation to the Ant family. I have encountered several folks in my adult life who have all reacted badly to a teen or young adult pregnancy. It is as if the family zeros in and insists that the mother to be keep the baby and there are all sorts of promises from family and friends that they will help raise the baby ect. What inevitably happens in a lot of cases (not all) is that either the grandparents end of raising the child or the family and friends help out for a “short time” and then resume their own lives. I seriously wish that families would evaluate adoption because if the girl is not ready to be a mother, nothing good can come from this. With the Ant family, I am certain that they loved Caylee despite what we are seeing now…but I am sure that they never stopped riding CMA about her mistakes and never let up on their threats. Please don’t get me wrong, I am not an advocate of CMA. In the bigger picture, this girl was not ready to be a mom and the family should have just raised the child or let her put her up for adoption. You can not create a mother out of guilt, punishment ect. Motherhood should not be a punishment for an unwanted pregnancy. Adoption folks, unless you want to raise the babies yourselves. (Disclaimer: Plenty of good young moms out there with supportive families. I am not directing this at you

Lmo4caylee: I agree with you but I can certainly see how difficult it would be for a grandparent to give up a grandchild. About the Anthonys: So many people say how Cindy was wrong to not let Casey give Caylee up for adoption………but I have never heard or read that anyone heard Cindy say that nor have I heard it in any of Cindy’s interviews. I believe that ‘mom won’t let me’ story is another lie made up by Casey. I think that maybe Casey thought that having a baby would be exciting…..and she found out quickly that it is hard work taking care of a baby. I think that Cindy & George helped out as much as they could & still maintain their full time jobs. But I have a feeling that Casey was wanting to be away from home & from taking care of her child more & more as time went on. Cindy, I think, was trying to insist that Casey be more responsible & a better parent to Caylee…..we all know that a child should have a routine & not be dragged here & there at all hours. I’m sure that Cindy said a lot of horrible things to Casey out of frustration with Casey’s lying & stealing and just handled the whole situation horribly. It is just a shame that Cindy & George did not follow through with the counselor’s advice to go for custody of Caylee.

People are making good points. To add to those, It would be natural for Casey to refuse Kio Marie’s offer. The offer would have been made sincerely enough but it would have brought out Casey’s competitive and possessive nature right away, IMO. I think she would have viewed that as a sort of,
“YOU can’t and I can,” from Kio Marie…”I can be a good mother to this child because I have a proper relationship with a man and YOU can’t.”
Adoptions are meant to be private for good reasons. It would be very difficult, if not impossible, for most people to watch someone else take possession of and raise the child they gave birth to.
Casey, IMO, took the simplest approach…
“I can’t. My mother won’t let me.”
(Besides which, I was just bitching as usual and I’m not really looking for solutions. Just listen to me and let me bitch…it’s one of the things I do best.)
Sheep’s Clothing, I just finished watching Casey during those statements she made again, too. I was struck by the ones that you highlighted in the same way. This amount of time later, it was just staring me right in the face, whereas before, I was concentrating on the real huge ones like, “I don’t work here.”
It’s like she’s just playing “verbal dodge ball” and thinks anything she says is good enough as long as they can’t prove their allegations. To think she used these methods so successfully around the house! (Maybe not to be believed but just to dismiss her parents who would back off rather than call her on anything…the easy way out IMO…avoid a confrontation with the mighty Casey.)
She was ill prepared for LE who keep throwing the dodge ball until the target is struck and the game is over.

The Nine-banded Armadillo, Dasypus novemcinctus is primarily nocturnal, sedentary, solitary, and a burrower. It digs a series of dens. The multiple entrances are usually protected by stumps, palmettos, or trees. It is not native to Florida. When pursued, an armadillo can dig a burrow and disappear in just a few seconds.

Predators include man, dogs, and other critters.

A small percentage of armadillos carry LEPROSY. (Hummm??? )

Sound like anyone regularly on NG? Especially the nocturnal burrower part? 8O

Good morning Val and everybody!!!

This is an article about Mr. Mitnik, he is ZG’s lawyer. I don’t think the A’s stand a chance in this civil trial… in my layperson opinion, of course.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/os-keith-mitnik-attorney-20100228,0,1945483.story

YES!! FRG he is a great lawyer i have always been impressed with him in court and depisitions especially in the Anthony’s depo’s that man did such a great job of controling himself and taking uneccessary crap from them when they should have targeted all their anger AT THEIR DUAGHTER!!! love to see him on the prosecution team but i think he will help Zenaida get her good name back.

Hi L Smith… only thing is Casey pawned Caylee off very quickly after birth. The Grunds had her as an infant and then her friend Lauren… she had stopped working and when Lauren found out she refused to continue babysitting… so it doesn’t seem like Casey even gave the motherhood thing much time at all. And then she laid it off on her parents as much as she could. It’s not like she thought she wanted to take care of Caylee and then realized what a drag it would be. Seems like she never wanted to *mother*.

My guess on the scenario is this: She probably didn’t tell Cindy until she was starting to show (and no, not 7 months… probably 4 or so. I think Cindy was instrumental in having Casey tell Jesse it was his child, just a first, kneejerk solution. When that didn’t work out so well she made a deal with the devil. She told Casey after Caylee was born she would have an enormous amount of family support and not to even think about adoption — by that time she had firmly decided to keep Caylee in the fold.

I think she lied to Casey about how much she would be willing to do.

Boom. There was Casey with an infant she didn’t want and a mother haranguing her every waking moment. That wasn’t the deal, Mom! Casey didn’t think about the reality of exactly HOW Cindy and George would take up the slack – she didn’t care – Cindy said she would do it so that’s that.

Casey was stuck. And she was mighty pissed. And by that time, after the Grunds and Lauren, she had not spent all that much real time tending to Caylee. She didn’t know how, she didn’t want to, her mom was a beyotch, etc.

So of course she had to kill her. What’s a girl to do?

I know the paternity test was done after the birth – that’s why Cindy hated Jesse, for daring to actually check up on the facts of the matter. I’d bet Casey started talking about adoption after that and as soon as the A-word was spoken Cindy started making false promises to Casey that she never intended to keep. Like Casey would really step up to the plate… uh huh. Not. Cindy just figured… too tough for you Casey. Now you deal with it.

Sick people.

Wait… the paternity test was done after Caylee was born, right? Either way, I think my overall theory is a good possibility – give or take some of those pesky details. lol.

There’s something that just doesn’t sit quite right with me going back to the beginning… when either my son or step-son do anything that is even slightly wonky, I can sense it, I feel it, I know it. It’s in their eyes, the way they glance aside. Or answer in very short sentences… lol. It is so hard for me to believe that Cindy did not know that KC was not working. I have no great theories about this and have to work myself today… but I just wanted to put this out there, I think there is more to it… maybe to do with some of the mysterious conversations we heard betw the family members. It was such a loooong period that this fake working took place, with Caylee supposedly at the phantom nanny’s. Don’t parents ask about pay stubs, taxes, insurance for adult children living at home with grandchildren in tow? I just do not believe it. Any ideas?

Angela, even though the Grunds and some of Casey’s friends had heard about the nanny for quite a while, I don’t think the Anthonys had any knowledge of this so-called nanny until very late in the game. Lee had never heard of a nanny period.

Which leads me to believe that they knew she wasn’t working. Either that or they just figured Casey was leaving Caylee with someone or somewhere and they weren’t going to delve. Heck, they never even thanked the Grunds for helping out with a newborn. They let Casey put the baby where she wanted – MOTY and all that jazz.

Jennyb, I know what you’re saying, but with Cindy being as controlling as she was, this actually does not make any sense. Know what I mean?
I believe there were discussions about a nanny for some period of time, because the weeks of June 16 onward after KC was no longer at the house, she clearly referred to Caylee as being at the Nanny’s in her conversations/texts with Cindy. If this had been the FIRST time Cindy had heard of a nanny, I think she would have reacted sooner.
I’m more wondering about the logistics of earning money and the money disappearing from Cindy’s accounts. I occasionally ask my grown step-son: Have you filed your taxes? Do you need help with your taxes?… that kind of thing. I find it hard to understand the dynamic of someone like Cindy having a laissez-faire attitude with someone who was clearly tapping into her funds.

The behavior of the family BEFORE any of these tragic events befell them seriously puzzles me. They acted as though they were “living under the microscope” long before any of us ever heard their names. Cindy and Casey were (and still are) always so concerned with appearances, never the truth. Unfortunately for them, as narcissists they never truly understood other people’s perceptions and only played by their own perceived standards. The fact that appearances meant so much to them is displayed in so many ways and I wonder how much of this played a part in Caylee’s death.
The tale that Casey employed a “nanny” rather than a “babysitter” shows that Casey used the connotation of the word in people’s mind to portray a certain affluence that she desired, but did not have. Contrary to this is the reality of the situation: Casey had no idea about real-world childcare providers. It is not generally the case that a childcare provider who is not a family member provide for all the child’s daily necessities.
Also, for as much as they wanted to project the image that they all provided for Caylee’s every need, they failed(to my knowledge) to look into beneficial programs for her. It seemed to be a point of pride for them to not accept help from any outside resource, but the fact remains that Caylee could very well have benefitted in ways they could not provide for her. WIC, Early Head Start, daycares, Gymboree, etc. This child was completely off the radar! Plenty of good parents do not have their children enrolled in any program at all, but most have looked into them at least and understand that children need some external stimulation outside of the home. (Having your child watch you play Rock Band at a friend’s house probably doesn’t count.)
I am completely ignorant about children’s programs in Florida, but I trust that in the children’s Mecca city of Orlando, there had to be something for a single mom to take advantage of to assist her in raising her child.
It appears as though their pride was against them seeking outside resources, and that pride outweighed any possible benefit to Caylee.
The reality often vied with their put-on machinations, and what other people thought was clearly more important than what was real. A more plastic bunch of people than these I have never encountered!
Sorry for the long somewhat convaluted rant, but where does the parallel universe of SIM cards, “investigations”, MOTY, free all-providing nannies, flexible dream jobs, rotten pizza, gas cans, & bat phones ever merge with reality?!! I pity the investigators in trying to deal with a fantasyland that even Walt Disney couldn’t dream up!

Many of the bloggers on several blogs covering the Caylee Anthony case are outraged over LP’s statements on the Nancy Grace show, broadcast Feb 26, 2010, where he made some serious accusations against Orange County law enforcement and even the Justice system in this county, along with baseless accusations against Roy Kronk and his girlfriend.

Many bloggers are writing to Nancy Grace to voice their concerns and to ask her to stop giving LP a platform to spout his baseless accusations.

To write to Nancy Grace send email to:
http://www.cnn.com/feedback/forms/form5.html?81

http://tinyurl.com/y9jbbwq
YouTube LP on NG Feb 26, 2010

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1002/26/ng.01.html
NANCY GRACE
Judge Orders Some Anthony Murder Case Evidence Kept Secret
Aired February 26, 2010
excerpt:
PADILLA: Yes, I think Casey Anthony herself revealed certain
information that was passed on to Kronk by his girlfriend, who
works at the jail. Subsequently, he bragged about it in front of his relatives.

I think the judge is looking at the prosecution side of the thing and saying
the justice system and law enforcement system of this county
could be on trial here if we don`t figure out what to do with this situation
because if law enforcement knew about it and it was passed on to Kronk and he
eventually came up with the information, did the people that — like Sergeant
Allen, when he came out and jacked (ph) me out, you know, and got all upset at
me out at the Little Econ — was he aware that the body was not there and that
it was out there about a quarter mile from the parents` house?
So right now, the judge is in a quandary, like, What do I do with this mess that`s
been created…

I agree about Caylee being in outside activities. And I’m sure the A’s knew all about them. But the problem was that Cindy was at work all day, George was busy cutting his lawn with the scissors, and Cindy was too busy pretending that Casey was also at work. Casey wouldn’t enroll Caylee in those programs. That would cost money that she didn’t have. She was too busy pretending to come and go from the house to her job in her “business” clothes. Wouldn’t we all love to know where she went in her business clothes with that child in the back seat. I can’t begin to imagine. And she did it over and over and over!

Getting back to LE’s interviews with Casey… I wish Yuri or someone would have said to her at Universal after she admitted that she didn’t work there… so since you don’t work here and haven’t in several years, where are all those phone numbers for the nanny and your friends that were on your other work phone that you left on your desk???? HUH? C’mon Casey, tell us. There are so many things the detectives could have asked her just so she would dig the hole faster and deeper. But who knew she’d lawyer up as quickly as she did. That’s kind of weird, too, isn’t it?

Jennyb and Angela_Nw
I totally agree with your observation that the “all controlling” Cindy never seemed to ask the most basic questions of Casey. Such as, did Casey have medical insurance thru her “employer”? Was Caylee covered on Casey’s medical insurance, etc. Surely Grandma would want a copy of Caylee’s insurance card to carry in her wallet! And income taxes, pay stubs, etc. I suspect Casey has never filed an income tax form in her life (and never will, now). I think Cindy KNEW Casey wasn’t working, and let her go on and on with the charade as a way to get Casey to at least accept some responsibility of caring for Caylee while Cindy was at her job.

I would bet that Cindy’s offer to “help” with the baby and Casey’s perception of that help were very, very different. Additionally, while Casey lied about her gainful employment and the pals she had at work, all Cindy had to DEMAND is why do you steal from me if you have a job? Why do we buy every last thing for you and Caylee if you are working? I cannot fathom getting by for that length of time having to ask for money for gas, personal items, diapers, baby food, a pack of gum. So, you steal at any and every oppportunity. BS. Cindy knew – she freekin’ knew verything and I think Cindy unloaded on her Mother. But why wasn’t George allowed to interfere-couldn’t they trust him to let criminal activity slide?

I think we want to solve the mysteries of the Anthony family dynamics as much as we want justice for Caylee.

Kerflunkled
Totally agree with you about Casey’s persistent use of the word “nanny”, instead of daycare lady, sitter, etc. Casey seems to think that “the nanny” confers some type of social standing– that she is an affluent businesswoman who has need of a nanny. I also noted that her friends (none of whom have children) never seemed to think it was odd that Casey employed a “nanny” at the age of 21-22– surely event planners don’t make THAT much $! I can’t believe they never called her out on it! Cindy is an RN– certainly she knows what daycare and nannies cost, and there is NO WAY Cindy believed that Casey was paying a nanny to care for Caylee!

An infant in a home daycare situation runs about $250/ week minimum– or $1000/ month for daycare. A nanny who is available at your beck and call is first: extremely unusual (live outs have lives, too!), and immensely expensive, IF you could find someone willing to do it. Believe me– I have an MD friend who is a single mom, and has had lots of difficulty finding a live out who can accomodate her on-call schedule and office hours. I know many people who do have live-in au pairs, and others who have “live out” nannies– but I can’t think of a single acquaintance who actually refers to these childcare providers as “the nanny”. Everyone I know goes out of their way to refer to them by their first name “Sarah took the kids to the zoo today”, “Elaine was a little late arriving this morning”, etc.

To clarify, I’m not just referring to children’s day programs that parents pay for. From the moment of Caylee’s birth there were resources that she was qualified for that could be looked into by Casey or Cindy. WIC, Early Head Start, and other beneficial programs to assist a low-income, uneducated, single parent. But rather than be seen as those qualifiers for Caylee’s benefit, they chose not to pursue those oppurtunities. If they had Caylee would be in a network and this may have been prevented.
And yes, I would love to know where Caylee was during the day, but my guess is home. I figure most days Casey dressed for “work”, drove off, parked around the corner waiting for her parents to leave, then went back home.

KZ,
Ironically, I was once a “live-out” nanny for an MD!! 3 kids, $200/week, 16 hours a day, 7 days per week & I carried a pager!

Kerflunkled
Yikes!! You were severely underpaid, friend! But tremendously appreciated, I’m sure!

I was just out of college & saving up for my wedding. I adored those kids! They were worth it & so was the wedding!

» Thinker said: { Feb 28, 2010 – 03:02:47 } Re: L Padilla

Thinker,
I posted on Blink before about this. The problem that I have with Padilla’s assertions are:
why on Nancy Grace, and why not go to internal affairs, (or whatever the group of detectives are who investigate police are called)? What is the motivation?
I think that he gets giddy on attention. He needs it like others need oxygen, and that dilutes the veracity of the comments for me. Well that, and the fact that he has been so full of shit so many times before.

We will find out though. If true, the prosecutor still has a case, but perhaps without remains and duct tape, etc. However, there has to be proof. And I just don’t see LE telling secrets to Padilla, who is a blowhard-town crier, inserting himself everywhere.

Cindy might be/act ingorant, but stupid she’s not. There is no way she didn’t know Casey wasn’t working (Casey’s constant ‘thieving’ – ah, hello!).

Also, I find it hard to believe that, in all the time Casey claimed to be working, that Cindy nor George ever had to go home ‘during lunchtime’, and see Casey home (if indeed, she was returning to the house after C & G left).

I’m inclined to think that Cindy knew Casey wasn’t working (whether she confronted Casey with this – is another story), however, she kept this knowledge to herself (Cindy) as opposed to letting George know (he’s kept in the dark about everything else, why not this)?

On a separate note: From what I understand, the goodies for Caylee’s birthday party were purchased from a check that Grand Master Thief (KC) stole from her grandmother. In one of the jailhouse videos, George states to Casey (paraphrasing) “we wanted to have a little one for Caylee’s birthday, just go to a park”. I’m wondering if this ‘little’ celebration wasn’t drummed up by Casey, since she obviously didn’t have any money, and wasn’t sure if ‘grandma’s’ checkbook would be up for grabs! (of course, assuming this ‘little’ celebration was planned before the ‘kidnapping’.

It would be interesting to know how long Casey actually had a cellphone…and if it was under C or G’s plan. It is evident that she spoke to anyone and everyone and her cell phone bills were extremely high ($500. +!)…how was she paying her cell phone all this time (prior) to trying to pay it with Amy’s money???

George himself stated in one of his LE interview’s that he had a suspicion Casey hadn’t been working…there’s no way he didn’t share this with his EVIL TWIN! Whether Cindy wanted to confront Casey with this suspicion or not, SURELY, she (Cindy), looked into it…found out indeed she wasn’t working….and thus, didn’t till George.

JMO

ingorant/IGNORANT

I know i few times she paid it with her grandparents account… her cell phone meant more to her than her grandpa’s health care… no shocker knowing her behavior

When thinking of all the lies and ‘fronts’ Casey was putting on, I find it amazing that she could actually go out, have a good time and ‘smile’ (prior to Caylee’s death), while knowing she didn’t have any money, yet, she had a cell phone bill to pay, needed GAS for her car to get to the imaginary job, and other items that a person that is truly working would need (and keep up appearances of a job, in her case). I can only imagine that she would be exhausted merely THINKING of how she was going to accomplish (pay $) for certain items, or simply have to remember which lie she told to whom. From my end, just trying to keep up with all her lies is tiring, I can only imagine how it was for her, hence, my question of, how on earth could she actually have a good time (as her party pictures depict). When I have a major expense or extra unplanned bills, I can hardly sleep, let alone go out and enjoy myself.

On a separate note: I seem to recall reading something that Amy H. said about Casey, something to the effect of ‘Casey was always mad’ or ‘Casey was mad a lot of the time’.
What I don’t recall, is if Amy was referring to the month prior to July 15th, or, to the entire time she knew Casey
* I have not, read anything since, of Amy stating this, but I know I read it somewhere- anyone else recall Amy stating this?

Seems that Casey WOULD be mad, just trying to keep up her front and her own lies…YET, in all the party photos she is obviously enjoying herself.

Go figure.

I have a young kid in Florida and have often wondered why Casey never sought out public assistance: WIC/Food Stamps, Head Start, VPK. After a little more thought, this is what I have come up with:

* Because Casey was living (sponging) at home, she was not within household financial guidelines for free day care provided by Head Start. A four person household in the Orlando area can’t make more than $22 K to be eligible. Cindy was a nurse and easily made more than that. Besides, the Head Start schedule of 7:30 AM – 3:00 PM didn’t really help Casey out. As we know she really wanted to have someone take care of Caylee in the late afternoon when she hooked up with her friends that were finishing their non-imaginary jobs, college classes, etc.

* A four person household in the Orlando area can’t make more than $ 40,800 per year to qualify for WIC. Again, odds are Cindy was bringing home this and more. Besides, applying for WIC would start making Casey look like she cared what Caylee was eating. And none of the monies received could be used for beer, cell phone bills, sunglasses or bras…so what would be the point of even moving out on one’s own and applying?

* Food stamps are the same situation; income limits for a household of four is $2389 a month. I think the current payment is $164/month.

* Casey was impatient. Florida has a voluntary Pre-K program paid for by the state. Every 4 year old is able to be assigned to a licensed school/care provider FOR FREE August-June. Care from 9 AM – Noon is free and an additional 2 hours is provided for a nomimal fee – $4/hour. That’s only $32/week for almost 5 full days of care – CHEAP!! As we know Caylee never got to make friends at pre-school. Or be in a Christmas program. Or learn to write her alphabet. Sad.

In summary, Casey could either move out and get Head Start/Food Stamps/WIC money every month or she could stick with her fictional job that ‘required her to work nights’ and gave her the freedom she craved by having Cindy/George babysit for free most nights. Above all else, I think Casey craved freedom. To this end, the lies worked better for her goals of nighttime freedom and daytime laziness.

What I don’t understand is why Casey – or Cindy for that matter – never applied for SS benefits for Caylee if indeed the father is dead. Cindy would have loved to have a little extra cash flow to cover room and board for Casey and Caylee. Casey would have loved to have a little extra PAR-TAY money. Yet noone applied despite Casey’s claims the father died in a car accident. Perhaps he is still alive and well??

WinterBelle, I know from experience with a family member who is a lot like Cindy and Casey (minus murder, as far as we know), that ATTENTION is a huge thing for a narcissist, and just living for the moment, not worrying about tomorrow. Whatever it takes to fulfill the need of the moment, is what they will do. Lie, steal, cheat, you name it. This family member even raised three children, if you can call it ‘raising’ them. They were intimidated, threatened, etc. and even now as adults, cannot stand up to this parent. The only way this was accomplished was that they lived 2,000 miles away and the information given to the rest of the family consisted of fantasy and lies that were perpetuated until more recent years, when we learned of this mess. Had we known at the time, those children would have been taken away, and that family member would have been in jail. Not one of us would have allowed that type of situation to continue.

That is what just amazes me about Casey being allowed to continue (and I do believe Cindy knew what was going on) her farce of a life. She used everyone who allowed it, and Cindy aided and abetted her. Remember when Cindy got the money and credit cards out of Casey’s wallet? If I recall, George said in an interview that Cindy told him that it might be Amy’s money. Did Cindy ever contact Amy and try to give her the money? I doubt it.

HINA: I think Amy told Cindy about the stolen money in the car on the way to Tony’s. Cindy’s response (paraphrased)… “too bad for you.” And then a bit later she took the $200 bucks out of Casey’s wallet and pocketed it. Nice.

» jennyb said: { Feb 28, 2010 – 08:02:34 }

HINA: I think Amy told Cindy about the stolen money in the car on the way to Tony’s. Cindy’s response (paraphrased)… “too bad for you.” And then a bit later she took the $200 bucks out of Casey’s wallet and pocketed it. Nice.

Nice, indeed. But not surprising.

Northwest A: Lots of good posts today! I have a question for you…….would you please give us your thoughts of where Cindy was coming from in her relationship with Casey? Do you think that Cindy was afraid & intimidated? Do you think that Cindy is a narcissist/sociopath?

» L. Smith said: { Feb 28, 2010 – 09:02:06 }

Northwest A: Lots of good posts today! I have a question for you…….would you please give us your thoughts of where Cindy was coming from in her relationship with Casey? Do you think that Cindy was afraid & intimidated? Do you think that Cindy is a narcissist/sociopath?

ME? I’m certainly no expert, but I do believe, from what I’ve seen, and from personal experience, that both Cindy AND Casey are narcissists. I think Cindy, being the only girl in her family, was probably spoiled and entitled, and she is a control freak. Therefore, she had to present the perfect ‘front’ to everyone, especially family. The way Casey was raised, who knows the kind of pressure her mother put on her to be ‘perfect’ and thus they had to ‘cover’ anything she did that wasn’t. It also seems to me that Lee was kind of ignored in favor of Casey. He and George just didn’t matter that much, IMO. While Cindy may have THOUGHT she was in total control, little did she know her daughter was doing things that made it impossible to keep up the farce of their ‘perfect’ life. Cindy was enabling Casey in her life of lies, thievery, sloring around, etc. and should have realized it, but in her narcissism she couldn’t even see it for a long time.

Is Cindy afraid/intimidated? Yes and no. She raised this monster, but it does seem that she was a bit intimidated by Casey as time went on. This is my opinion based on the neighbors describing their fights, that Casey would be screaming and cursing at Cindy and Cindy just took it. But again, she herself would tell Casey’s friends what a liar and sociopath Casey was, so I think there was a power struggle between them, and Caylee was used as currency. Also, the phone call home from the jail spoke volumes to me. If one of my children spoke to me that way, I certainly would not have been calling them ‘sweetheart’ and sniveling around. But of course, my children were raised better than that, and they would NEVER speak to me or their father that way.

The family member I spoke of began the lies and so forth early on. At the time, my parents were totally naive about anything like the problems this person had, and were clueless to deal with it.

The only consolation I have is that our father passed away before knowing much about this situation. Our mother, on the other hand, was a victim, and has had to be forcibly brought to awareness, although she cannot possibly understand the hows, whys, or wherefores. She is elderly and in a nursing home, and just cannot deal with the reality of it.

Renee,
Thank you soooo much for your perspective! Like I said, I’m completely ignorant about situations in FL. Those numbers are quite different from what I’m used to. (Being a Buckeye) I completely understand why Casey didn’t into any of this that we know of, (lazy, didn’t care) but I didn’t realize it was on the basis on the entire household and not just the parents’ income. Wonder if Casey had paid rent if it would’ve made any difference… oh, well just speculating.

Oh, and Northwest, narcissistic family members? Wow! We could compare notes!!

» Kerflunkled said: { Feb 28, 2010 – 09:02:05 }
Oh, and Northwest, narcissistic family members? Wow! We could compare notes!!

I’d bet we could! I think most narcissists are a lot alike.

Northwest A: Thank you….everything you said makes perfect sense. About Lee….with a sibling like Casey, I bet that he did lack attention from his mother. And then there is George, too, that was left out so much on everything. But then, my guess is that Cindy did not listen to either one if they had anything critical to say about Casey. I think that maybe we should throw in ‘co-dependency’, also, between Cindy & Casey. JMO

..regarding kc’s NONjob—-i have 2 daughters , in kc’s age range, i would surely think i’d know if they were working or not. for one thing, they tell me every day whether it was a busy day, a slow day, certain things that happened at work that day….

..i find it hard to believe that cindy never got those daily details from kc ?

..or did cindy & george totally buy into the ‘fake’ work emails that kc was sending back and forth to herself ?

..i can see kc leaving one of the ‘fake’ work emails up on her laptop—–and then griping to cindy & george ” oh, can you &%$#*ng believe it!!! i have to go in AGAIN tonight and work an extra event………” look at this email i got from my boss…

..but i can’t see them buying that from spring 2006-summer 2008.

..and then of course there’s the thousands kc stole using cindy’s credit cards ( surely that was a ‘red flag’—-to quote cindy) ( i can’t remember who threw that amount out there, cindy, george, maybe grandma shirley..)

..bottom line, living at home for free ( per cindy ) they knew that they were always providing for caylee, so why did kc never have $$’s ?

..kc should have been able to bank some serious $$’s while living rent free – with her awesome event planning job–, parents spoiling caylee with everything, plus the BONUS nanny—-that not only works for free!—-she buys caylee clothes, shoes, toys, a carseat,books, diapers, DREAMnanny!

..conclusion: cindy is delusional.

WinterBelle said
I’m inclined to think that Cindy knew Casey wasn’t working (whether she confronted Casey with this – is another story), however, she kept this knowledge to herself (Cindy) as opposed to letting George know (he’s kept in the dark about everything else, why not this)?

I think Cindy kept her mom in the dark about Casey as much as she could. I chuckled remembering Shirley Pleasea’s E. Mail to her sister in which Shirley mentions Cindy as complaining that Casey “spends more than she makes”. Glory be, Cindy. Do tell!

Ellejay – I dont think Cindy is just delusional…I think she is willfully delusional.

I was just re-reading Casey’s written statement to LE on July 15. Somehow I never really noticed, but now I find it to be incredibly odd that she makes up the two imaginary roommates. With Zenaida, maybe she thought she could bluff her way through, because LE wouldn’t be able to find her (since she doesn’t exist).

But what could she have thought was the value of making up two roommates? How would this help her? If LE couldn’t find ZG, she can say they were incompetent and haven’t listened to a f’ing thing she’s said. But an additional two roommates, who would surely be aware that ZG had disappeared after kidnapping a baby? Leaving them in the lurch to pay the rent without her? (Among other reasons they might be upset.) If they vanished at the same time ZG did, it would seem pretty clear that they were involved in the kidnapping, but Casey never tries to blame them in any way, or explain why they themselves were now gone and hadn’t notified the authorities.

So I’m unclear on how this pair of roommates was intended to strengthen Casey’s story. Perhaps once she got started with the lies, she couldn’t stop herself, or else figured that if she piled on the details, LE wouldn’t feel a need to investigate. (“What’s the matter with you guys! If my nanny isn’t a real person, then how could she have two roommates??” ).

Nikki: Casey embellished the ZG story to include the roommates, because she thought the lie would be more believeable if she added additional information. This has been explained as common behavior in indiviuals who are habitual liars like Casey.

re: Cindy. I think Caylee was the sunshine in her life and she’d do just about anything (ie putting up with George and Casey’s antics) to prevent “rocking the boat” that could lead to Casey running off with her. (Thus the singing of “Please don’t take Nan’s[?] sunshine away” Unfortunately, I do believe that Caylee was quite the pawn between Cindy and Casey. I’m sure a lot of stuff Casey did was blamed on George too.

re: Casey. I think she was doing something to earn a little cash. I have no idea what though. In all the talk of Escort searches and stuff, I thought she could have easily been on her way to something like that and it would fit nicely under her “event planning” schedule. Chloraform, household objects as weapons, etc all made sense for that line of work. In the meantime though, all her hard-earned money was going to (over-)pay for this wonderful nanny that was caring for Caylee as round-the-clock as necessary.

re: “Zani’s” two roomates. Did TL have one roommate or two? She could have used him or anyone as a copy-cat scenario. Or just to prove that Zani’s name wasn’t on any kind of lease or deed because everything was in her roommates’ names. Casey thought she had it all under control.

Oh and what about Vicky Aleman(sp)? Wasn’t there speculation that Casey was using alot of her life–someone she supposedly hardly even knew personally!–intertwined into the lives of her imaginary people? Made me think twice about putting so much info on MySpace, Facebook, et al. 8O

LuLu: How does searching internet for chloroform, household weapons, etc., “fit in” with working as an escort as you suggested above?

I agree wholeheartedly. Casey would automatically (like breathing), throw in additional info to make her lies more believable. I always chuckle when I hear her blurt out ‘September’, when being asked ZG’s birthday (while being interviewed). I mean, she couldn’t just say “I don’t know”, she actually gave a birth month.

I’m surprised she didn’t say ‘She was a Virgo’ (or Libra, depending on which day in September)!

***********************************************

» Linda Pope said: { Mar 1, 2010 – 12:03:11 }

Nikki: Casey embellished the ZG story to include the roommates, because she thought the lie would be more believeable if she added additional information. This has been explained as common behavior in indiviuals who are habitual liars like Casey.

Linda Pope: For someone like Casey I wouldn’t be surprised if she thought about using Chloroform to knock out a date (*ahem* a man she just met) and steal their cash. Knowing how some household items could be used as weapons could come in handy if she were alone in a hotel room (or condo, et al) and the guy tried to rough her up or something.

I’m not suggesting that she WAS an escort, just that should could have been comtemplating it.

Sorry, no offense to any escorts here.

* contemplating. oops

I wonder how long she had this story cooked up: ZG and her roommates, the September birthday, etc. If LE had asked, she probably would have describe Zani’s last birthday party, who was there, etc. “It was at Buffalo Wild Wings, Jeff couldn’t make it because Zach had an earache and he had just moved to North Carolina and didn’t have a doctor yet. Juliette had just met a guy from work so she brought him, his name is Bode Q. Miller and his phone is out of service now.”

Oh my god, someone stop me! I’m channeling Casey Anthony!!! The weird part is, it’s not that hard to make up stuff of the same (poor) quality as her lies.

Sorry Val, I put this in the wrong thread initially:

http://www.wesh.com/news/22707239/detail.html

New evidence also includes interviews with former Equusearch volunteers like Joe Jordan. Anthony’s defense team said Jordan will testify that Equusearch did search the area and found nothing while Casey Anthony was in jail.

Defense attorney Richard Hornsby said it is clear that investigators are trying to find information to counter the defense team’s claims that the remains were put in the woods after Casey was put in jail.

“No matter how many experts you put on there, when you have multiple witnesses, including law enforcement officers, who say we went there and we didn’t see anything, that raises some reasonable issues a jury could consider,” Hornsby said.

Prosecutors also turned over more photos enhanced by the FBI of Casey’s car trunk.

Mimi said: { Feb 28, 2010 – 08:02:21 }

Mimi, you and I are on the same page. When you listen in on these interviews initially, it’s the big lies that you are processing. It blows my mind she had the audacity to take it so far, but kudos, she never broke. The second time, you start honing in on the smaller details. Her tone of voice is monotone. No emotions. Her responses are comical and hasty. KC is quite a piece of work. She can spin the lies but what she says is just plain stupid. Everything that comes out of her mouth sounds made up on the spot. If you weren’t paying attention to the subject of the conversation, you’d think you were listening in on a lawn bowling play by play.

Another thought, I wonder if KC really believed she was concealing her pregnancy successfully. I wouldn’t put it past her to have a plan of giving up the baby or abandoning it while her family and friends were none the wiser that she gave birth. It wasn’t supposed to go as far as it did.

LuLu said: { Mar 1, 2010 – 03:03:30 }

“Sorry, no offense to any escorts here”.

None was taken LuLu

NikkiB.

..excellent! ( even if Bode Q’s phone was in service—–darn! his # would no doubt be programmed into her lost blackjack phone anyway.)

..seriously though, i’m pretty sure i recall an interview ( with one of kc’s ex-friends perhaps.) where they stated that zani AND the room mates were ‘supposed’ to show up at a club or something, but then couldn’t make it.

..anyone remember that ?

casey as an escort:

i just don’t see how she would have the TIME, she was on her phone either texting or talking ALL day long..

plus, it was less time consuming to just continue to rob cindy blind ( since cindy apparently was doing nothing about it. UNTIL july 15 th when she called 911:
1st over a ‘stolen auto’, 2nd money and FINALLY mentions——-the missing child).

even if, as someone suggsted earlier, kc got ‘ready for work’ , left the house only to wait for cindy and george to leave, and then come back to spend the day there–her phone records indicate that she sure wasn’t looking after caylee or giving her any attention.

it’s no wonder caylee knew ( as cindy brags ) how to get her own cereal and put in dvd’s at 2! she pretty much had to fend for herself.

ah, to answer my own ? about zanny & her room mates—–of COURSE it would be cindy who was talking about them…

..state depo: pg. 383
http://www.wftv.com/pdf/21310288/detail.html

Q: ok, the names of zanny’s supposed room mates, did you get that from kc?
CA: correct
Q: and when did you get that information?
CA: i had heard her speak of her room mates on SEVERAL occasions. on her birthday in march she had a birthday party.
Q: whose birthday in march?
CA: kc’s birthday, she had a party,
and she said that zanny and her room mates were going to come to the party…..come to find out later, they didn’t show up..”

re-reading that, not only did cindy suddenly remember, shortly after july 15th, that the name zanny was heard around the house on a very regular basis –( and if cindy remembered it–so did george!)

–now, in 2009 during her state depo ( under oath mind you!!!) she now recalls that she had heard of the room mates SEVERAL times too. ( i’m surprised george doesn’t recall detailing their cars every other tuesday.)

..( if you’re looking for a good ‘old’ read, pull up a chair and wade through HER blabbing incessantly—-for—–over 400 pages !!! )

note: the above depo is available in FICTION only…..

..( as i continue to post to myself over here…..lol)
..but——-this stuff is “miscellaneous.”

..i came across this youtube clip of george today—–apparently (just after) he stormed a nejame news conference..
http://www.youtube.com/user/totalwastecase#p/u/66/Wr4SqtFT5ic

..what’s very interesting, @ the 0.30 mark, nejame apologies to george—–then george says:

” i’ve always said, and i stick by it—–i need to know what happened to my grand daughter——cindy needs to know what happened—-lee needs to know what happened.”

..yep, end of sentence. silence.

..umm george—–why doesn’t kc , IN jail, facing a death sentence, INNOCENT gorgeous, princess, sweetheart that she is——-why is SHE not included in your who “NEEDS to KNOW what happened” to caylee.?

..ooohhhhhhhh,because kc already knows——( betcha you got in trouble with cindy after that aired.)

..another “misc” thing i came across today, while speed reading transcripts…

..just me, or does lee speak in the most bizarre fashion ?
..i could cite 100 examples plus, here’s just a couple:

MY kids: “my mum & sister came home”.
lee: ” they arrived at the residence”.

MY kids: ” they got out of the car”
lee: ” and they exited the vehicle”..

..seriously, reading “old” transcripts, comparing what we knew THEN compared to NOW is an eye opener—–the “leespeak”, MY kids would say “it’s weird”……i have no clue what lee would say. ( but he would use “big” words to say it.)

..cindy, if a question CAN be answered in 5 words or less—–can’t help but take the long way home , and use 5 paragraphs ( to still say nothing).

Ellejay – I think Lee was trying to bond with the cops by trying to speak like he was one of them….or maybe he was just living out his cop fantasy….Horatio in tubesox

danna:

..i agree, listening to/reading about “DeputyLee” “faciliating” the conversation etc…..bizarro!

..don’t you hate it , at the very moment you hit “submit”—-you see your words spelled wrong.

..s/b “facilitating”…..( hopefully, i don’t do leespeak…

Every time I look at this picture of the duct tape I see a distinct outline of a heart shape. Am I seeing things of does anyone else see it right in the middle of the first two pictures.
Of course it could be just wishful thinking. Does anyone think that this could be what is left of the evidence regarding that sticker?

http://www.wftv.com/slideshow/news/22578950/detail.html

http://www.wesh.com/video/22708297/index.html

Hundreds More Pages of Anthony Evidence Released

quite an extensive list show on this news video.

From Kleat/BOC, an interview with Debbie Polisano will be released in new discovery. here are older statements previously released:

“Cindy Anthony also called her supervisor Debbie Polisano the night she called police, July 15th 2008. Cynthia was crying and almost incoherent, screaming “I found Casey and the baby’s gone. The baby’s missing. We can’t find the baby!” When asked if she called the police, she said they were on scene and speaking with Casey. Cynthia said “Oh my God Debbie, If something happened to the baby or if the baby’s dead, I don’t know what I’m going to do!”
http://bogbuster2.blogspot.com/2009/01/casey-anthony-new-documents-released.html

http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:AI9ZCOwATfkJ:www.momlogic.com/blog_content/casey_caylee_documents/witnessreport_casey.pdf+Debbie+Polisano+casey+anthony&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEEShb0PEaPYZJvqM0OApLZ4ytcf5d-40aKRfAaCPTj8J4kB0ApPryhMFLjhCpwt94EHGyx88TQLj3lCmHQxee9f-1IqnCepSatkU0iN5SPqoE82MvIAekFh1S11nCjszWAB4M2B93&sig=AHIEtbRKnosPowgJVRKcTjTLcsnUpYt6cA

pg 7

Testimony related to Joy Wray will be released. Here is a poster relaying conversations with Wray from CD:

Former Volunteer To Be Questioned In Casey Anthony Case
http://www.cayleedaily.com/2009/11/former-volunteer-to-be-questioned-in-casey-anthony-case/

Monday, November 23, 2009

Jess
November 23, 2009 at 5:54 PM
OMG Im going to be sick , I mean really sick…… I have talked to Joy for the last year and a half about everything……. What I got from talking to her is that she has personality issues, i thought maybe her attaching herself to this case was some type of mental situation and at times I felt very bad for the critisism she would get online I think I am possible the closest person to Joy at this moment, I let her tell me whatever she wants just to hear what she has to say without being mean to her or judging her, all this time I have just felt sorry for her…. Joy made me aware of these pictures back in Jan. 09 , she told me on the phone point blank she had pictures of that area, not at anytime in the last year and half that i have talked to her has she ever said anything about a video and trust me Ive made sure to keep contact with her and keep questions going about what she is saying…….The last time I talked to Joy would have been about 3 days ago , she messaged me to call her as soon as possible …… she stated that LE wanted to see her laptop so she took her laptop to bestbuy to have the harddrive fixed but the man working on her laptop saw pictures of the anthony case and called police on her…. he also told police that she asked to have certain files deleted off her laptop ( her reasons for wanted things deleted to me was because her hubby goes to sex web sites ) but I do believe now she wanted something deleted off that computer. She also told me she was scared that she would get into trouble with LE because some of the dates on the photos had been changed. This was 3 days ago when she told me this , after this conversation I decided to no longer speak with Joy until I knew what was actually going on , she has called my phone numerous times in the last 3 days.

Jess
November 23, 2009 at 6:03 PM

She has also been posting this information all over her facebook and blabbing about it in the chats so Im sure its already in the hands of LE….. My point is after talking to Joy this whole time I dont think she has anything credible for LE or the defense team. I will email LE with the information of course but I still feel like Joy Wray is just another person in it for the money.
Jess
November 23, 2009 at 6:23 PM

Was starting dinner and thinking and now im remembering a little more …. when the defense got the go ahead to get certain files from TX equusearch Joy Wray told me she was part of the TX EQ team that searched that area and that she was a lead of one of the groups , she told me that day she did have a video camera with her as she was searching…… again these are things she told me so that doesnt mean its TRUE ……

Jess
November 23, 2009 at 6:25 PM

she also claims to be writing a book about the case, fyi , $$$$$$$ ………

Jess
November 23, 2009 at 6:31 PM

Joy Wray good morining everyone! Gwting ready to go see my lawyer at his office >we are meeting with Sgt Allen.About the Casey Anthony Case.Little nervous,Justice4CayleeMood: exhausted

10 hours ago · Comment ·LikeUnlike · View Feedback (1)Hide Feedback (1)

Oops maybe not the first name I posted. Here is a WS’er who figured out some of the names.
http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?s=e559700bed08cef62e3ede75bb915b07&t=82951&page=24
ZsaZsa
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,307

Names to match the initials-
CC- Carol Conway
JC- Jennifer Conway ( neither reportedly related to Brad)
LH- Lisa Hoffman
LT- Linda ?Tine
DI- Daniel Ibison
DR- Doug Reilly
RC- Richard Creque
TR- Tony Revinsky
BC- Brett Churchill – Security Director, Holiday Inn Airport
LC – Lori Cree – I.T. specialist
JJ- Joseph Jordan.
JB- John Bradley -Computer forensics
I can’t take any credit for these names, they were given to me by someone who did the work…

Tug said: { Mar 2, 2010 – 09:03:49 }
Every time I look at this picture of the duct tape I see a distinct outline of a heart shape. Am I seeing things of does anyone else see it right in the middle of the first two pictures.
Of course it could be just wishful thinking. Does anyone think that this could be what is left of the evidence regarding that sticker?

http://www.wftv.com/slideshow/news/22578950/detail.html

*****

The heart shape was on Q63. That is a picture of Q62.

The heart observed on Q63 by Elizabeth Fontaine of the FBI Latent Print Unit was 1) only the size of a dime, and 2) could only be seen using RUVIS (Reflected Ultra-Violet Imaging System). It was not visible to the naked eye, and she was unable to get a photograph of it.

poster Kleat, from BOC, typed out the new discovery list, as shown on the wesh video.

http://www.wesh.com/video/22708297/index.html

16.Kleat says:
March 2, 2010 at 12:11 pm
Among the list of docs released to the defense, are:
1. CD-R Discovery Doc pages 12420-13078
2. CD-R Interviews, Photos, Transcripts (… Cpl. Melich)
3. CD-R John Bradley (Cacheback)
4. ”
5. CD-R Globe Photos– Ricardo Morales
6. ”
7. CD-R Best Buy Surveillance 11-21-09 RE Joy Wray (1 of 2)
8. ” as above, 10-30-09 (2 of 2)

(7 and 8 must be Wray’s attempts to destroy evidence– ie: have Best Buy wipe her drive)

9 DVD-R -Wray
10. CD-R – FBI Enhanced Trunk Photos
11. CD-R- Joe Jordan Phone REcording -recorded on 10/28/09
12. CD-R – Carol Conway & Jennifer Conway Interviews 9-16-09
13. CD-R – Tim Miller 12-12-09, Lisa Hoffman 12-12-09, Linda Tinelli 12-14-09
14. CD-R – Daniel Ibison, Doug (?) Reilly, Richard…. (?) etc

(partial list only as shown on WESH video of the doc releases to defense)

Does anyone else think that it was odd that Baez was in court on the morning of Dec 11th/08, just hours before Caylee’s skeletal remains were discovered waiving Casey’s right to a speedy trial and asking for a continuance? I’ve got a really poor quality u-tube link which I personally can barely hear, but maybe others can decipher better then me.

How many coincidences are we to believe? Seriously. I think someone is orchestrating every sordid detail in this case and it’s not Casey. Hell, she couldn’t even figure out how to pretend that she was worried about her baby being “kidnapped”. Here’s the link to the hearing on December 11/08. Sorry it’s really poor audio. (I believe the defense team had been visiting Casey non-stop on Dec. 11th and 12th). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POXJCG8jMbo

Ellejay said: { Mar 2, 2010 – 08:03:07 }

I just saw that list and OMG, it seems interesting!!! Hopefully we will take a look at it soon.
Don’t you guys think that defense and the A’s have been really quiet, is it good or bad? I guess that they are indeed running out of money. LOL

Thank you so much Maura for answering my question. I sincerely hope that the image can be recognized for trial purposes. Although the imprint is indelible in my mind, and it is only part of the horrendous deed I feel it was like placing a period or an act of finality. It probably would not be as important as all the other evidence, but I think it a good example of the mind behind such a definitive act of cruelty not only toward the child but anyone that would have found her.

Nosy Parker said: { Mar 3, 2010 – 02:03:40 }
(I believe the defense team had been visiting Casey non-stop on Dec. 11th and 12th).

..it’s strange, that on dec. 10th/08 an attorney, gabriel adam, visited with kc from approx. 10 p.m. – 5 a.m. ! long visit, and strange hours if you ask me.

..on dec. 11th/08 baez was there twice ( 12-1:30 and 10p.m -11 p.m.) jose garcia was there on the 11th as well ,( 4:45-10:20 ), then nothing until the 14th when garcia returned for an hour——baez didn’t come again until the 17th, for 1/2 hr.

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/3918071/Casey-Anthony-jail-visitation-log-1262009

Mr. Sheaffer has posted a new article:
http://billsheaffer.wordpress.com/2010/03/03/interrogatories-queries-burning-questions/

There are alot of rumors going around on a topix thread over the last few days about casey maybe walking on technicalities because of defective indictment.
i am lost when it come to legalities.
several are talking about the charging document not being valid

below is quoted text from the thread

can someone more knowledge dig into this? i hate the thought of casey walking on a technicality

“A Trial by Judge could be an alternative but there is an issue, and after watching the clip attached to this Post, there are several at minimum, questions that have to be addressed. Use your imagination. I advise that you listen real carefully. The Clip is entitled: Casey Anthony’s Judge Speaks.

Here is the Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch...

Thanks, but don’t need to watch the video to understand what you are hinting at.

Bench Trial > Bias > Remand

Yet somewhere in the back of their minds they likely knew that it would come to this. Hence, not drafting a “facially valid indictment”.

Even your pal chucky says the nitwit who drafted the charging document should be fired. “

Cecelia had also shared these comments:

Somebody that goes by somethingswrong others have said she’s deb walker is saying the indictment for murder is defective and its just a matter of time basically til she’s freed.

Basically.

“In plain english a fatally flawed indictment would have a high probability of causing Casey to walk free.”

“When one compares the language in Casey’s charging document with the language in the charging document attached to Casey’s Motion, the errors in Casey’s Indictment are clear, distinct, and yes likely fatal.:

“The remedy for these errors is dismissal of the charges.”

Maybe Silver or AZ or someone could respond on this?

Jesus.

» jennyb said: { Mar 3, 2010 – 05:03:32 }
Curley, this is the woman who stared straight into her daughters eyes at the bond hearing and said: “There’s no evidence… NO EVIDENCE!”.
_____________________________________________________________________________________

..i’ve looked all over for the clip / or transcript where cindy says this.

..i can only find the short 7 minute version of cindy at the bond hearing——can anyone direct me to the longer version , please ??

Re: Cecelia’s comments…I think I’m going to be sick…

» cecelia said: { Mar 3, 2010 – 09:03:38 }
There are alot of rumors going around on a topix thread over the last few days about casey maybe walking on technicalities because of defective indictment.
i am lost when it come to legalities.
several are talking about the charging document not being valid.
—————————————————————–

..why would it take THIS long for someone to realize the indictment is defective ?

I saw a post on one of the other threads regarding what caused the dogs to “hit” on the backyard of the Anthony’s home. A thought that crossed my mind is perhaps Casey had Georgie’s precious gas cans in her trunk at the same time that Caylee was in the trunk and maybe some decomp fluid got on a gas can. While mowing could it be possible that George set the gas can down in the yard leaving some traces of decomp?

» ellejay:
this is stuff i’ve heard on the topix form….
i think the duhfense has raised this issue. i couldn’t fill a thimble with my legal knowledge. i wish someone could dig into this and respond.

Oh we need Silver to address this, hopefully soon. I don’t even go to Topix anymore – its a free-for-all and gets way out of hand sometimes. But…. holy shizz.

Guys……do not want to butt in…..but, the name Deb Walker sounds familiar, as though, she is on the list that I saw that showed the names of people from the Anthonys’ YUKU site. Does the name sound familiar to anyone else? Gosh, I have got to start writing things down!

» L. Smith said: { Mar 5, 2010 – 02:03:14 }
Guys……do not want to butt in…..but, the name Deb Walker sounds familiar…
______________________________________________________________________
..the name deb walker is included in a number of these emails that came out in the P.I. report:

http://www.wftv.com/pdf/21148535/detail.html

..begin on page 96.

In the link provided, wasn’t the judge addressing the intitial child endangerment, neglect, etc. prior to the charges being changed to felony murder. The charges changed in October I believe and this appears to be from her bond hearing in August.

Val,

Would be possible that Lyon’s students, I mean trolls, are spreading these type of rumors just to cause confusion? There are several people over the blogs that like to stir the pot. These people had the nerve to post comments such as the remains found in the swamp area was not Caylee’s. JS is being really careful when it comes to this case so KC will not have grounds for an appeal if she is convicted. Well, this is just my opinion.

Silver or Maura,

Motion Asks State To Pay Anthony’s Defense Costs
http://www.clickorlando.com/news/22757022/detail.html

OMG, do we”tax payers” have to pay for KC’s defense? That’s outrageous!!! 8O
Thank you!!!

oh cripes it gets even better, now the DUHfense wants casey declared indigent for costs

http://www.clickorlando.com/news/22757022/detail.html

» cecelia said: { Mar 5, 2010 – 05:03:40 }oh cripes it gets even better, now the DUHfense wants casey declared indigent for costshttp://www.clickorlando.com/news/22757022/detail.html

Oh, For cryin’ out loud. This is why the Anthonys let her house go into foreclosure? What has the defense spent money on? No depos. One visit by one expert to the car. And how many experts to the autopsy? They didn’t pay D Casey. Who is paying for Mort?

They are trying a new tactic on public opinion. They are trying to piss off Florida tax payers, it seems. Maybe they think this will cause a backlash against the prosecutors?

Maybe they really are broke, but it would seem that this should have happened earlier and that more work should have been accomplished on the case vs all the time on TV. Or, maybe that was considered part of their pay?

Well, at least we might find out where the money came from, maybe not.

Anthonys let her house…their

My last post sounded like I was having an argument with myself.

Silver,

Help, help!! We need you!!!! What’s going to happen now? Are we “tax payers” going to foot KC’s defense bill??? Please, tell me not!!! 8O

FRG

If you live in Florida, you most likely will.

» WSH said: { Mar 5, 2010 – 05:03:26 }

My last post sounded like I was having an argument with myself.

You mean you weren’t?

lol

*WARNING*

I just had a comment come in for moderation in which a reader attempted to call another commenter a troll due to some content they disagreed with. Let me be clear that I will not tolerate name-calling of other commenters on this site. If you feel some one may be trolling, you can hit the contact email link at the top right of the site and speak with me personally, but you do not have the right to do so in public here.

And then I’ll follow up with something to bring clarity to an issue:

Cecilia brought some statements over here from Topix because she was concerned about those statements and wanted some one with legal knowledge to interpret them. THE STATEMENTS ARE NOT CECILIA’S.

CECILIA,

I have discussed this issue with a lawyer and this is what she said,

BULLSHIT.

She didn’t actually say that, but I thought I would reduce it to that. There is nothing of substance to those statements made by that commenter at Topix. It’s most likely the same multi-named pro-Casey spin-doctors trying to scare the be-jeezus out of people.

I could repeat all the long, legalese recited in the lawyer’s opinion, but let’s just leave it at BULLSHIT until Silver gets a chance to drop by and say it more eloquent than I can.

» Valhall said: { Mar 5, 2010 – 06:03:16 } You mean you weren’t?

No, I’m pretty sure I was!

Signed,
nutjob

» FRG said: { Mar 5, 2010 – 05:03:22 }
Ellejay said: { Mar 5, 2010 – 05:03:54 }

From Orange County Clerk of Courts
http://myclerk.myorangeclerk.com/CaseDetail.aspx?CaseID=6236234
————————————————————-
..thanks FRG. wow——-lengthy docket!
..i did notice that there is “correspondence” listed a number of times, with strange names beside it, in addition to today’s james mcintyre.

..also, all of the 7 charges, murder, child abuse, all 4 times of lying to LE , are ALL dated 06/15/2008——(?)

..she didn’t even meet, and then immediatley start lying to, LE until a month later..

Val

I hope that they stop, so that the rest of us don’t suffer constant moderation.

I guess it could be new people that don’t know how you roll Val.

No big deal. I think some one just had a lapse of judgment. But I do want to take this opportunity to state it aint okay to accuse some one of trolling in public here.

FRG said: { Mar 5, 2010 – 05:03:51 }
Motion Asks State To Pay Anthony’s Defense Costs
————————————————————-

..when scott peterson ran out of $$$$’s——–wasn’t there a “cap” put on the amount geragos could receive from the state of california ?

..i wouldn’t think the defense of someone indigent could just submit bills left and right to the state as they felt like it ?

I can’t look at the docket. I’m getting this message:

“The page isn’t redirecting properly

Firefox has detected that the server is redirecting the request for this address in a way that will never complete.”

Didn’t Hornsby or Sheaffer write something about how much would be covered if she were declared indigent?

It is my understanding (which is usually limited in this arena) that once you get on the state’s payroll in your defense EVERYTHING is pretty much capped. In other words, all rates and all expenditures will have to be passed by the state for approval first.

WSH said: { Mar 5, 2010 – 06:03:12 }
I can’t look at the docket. I’m getting this message:

http://tinyurl.com/yb2su4h

i’ve made the docket URL “tiny”, not sure why that would help actually—–also, i’m viewing FRG’s original in IE..

WSH said: { Mar 5, 2010 – 06:03:12 }

Here is the link which is not working now… I don’t know what’s going on with their website…it is having some problems since yesterday… this is the link you click on criminal cases and then fill out KC’s name in the boxes and you will see the 2 cases you click on the case number 15606, voila KC’s docket will open. I hope it’s not confusing my explanation :
http://myclerk.myorangeclerk.com/default.aspx

Re: James McIntyre – Another kook

Emails from discovery pages 8040 and 8042, released September 29, 2009, Set 1:

From: aandjmac@mchsi.com
To: cma@cayleemarieanthonyfoundation.net
Subject: CAYLEE MARIE ANTHONY HAS BEEN FOUND ALIVE!
Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 01:00:39 +0000

To Whom It May Concern,

Caylee Marie Anthony is NOT DEAD! “Body of Caylee” is of another murder victim. Caylee [missing text]

Riverside Home
Bungalow 19
15705 Washington Street
Riverside, California 92504

Caylee’s Nanny/Babysitter and her accomplice parents live here. The parents own/lease Bungalow 19. Atlanta Police and Atlanta FBI knew [missing text]

15705 Washington Street is the driveway that leads into the complex. It ends in a turn around and the driveway is a dead end. They have [missing text]

Three and a half miles from the airport, that explains how she was able to travel to Riverside without being seen. I have a gut feeling [missing text].

James L. McIntyre
McIntyre Consulting
PO Box 96
Grand Rapids, MN 55744
aandjmac@mchsi.com

******************************

Message from Cindy Anthony cindy@dgator.com
can you send proof??????????

From: aandjmac@mchsi.com
To: cindy@dgator.com
Subject: RE: CAYLEE MARIE ANTHONY HAS BEEN FOUND ALIVE!
Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 01:48:55 +0000

KNBC Channel 4 News of Riverside California has your proof!
They have a copy of a pre-Christmas pageant clearly showing Caylee with her kidnapper! She is the same woman seen in the airport security [missing text].
KNBC Channel 4 News: 551-788-2221
They have been expecting the Riverside California FBI office to ask to see the video tape. They have it locked in a filing cabinet to k [missing text].

******************************

From: Cindy Anthony cindy@dgator.com
Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 01:51:46
To: dominiccasey@msn.com
Subject: FWD: CAYLEE MARIE ANTHONY HAS BEEN FOUND ALIVE!

What do you think?

******************************

From: dominiccasey@msn.com
To: Cindy Anthony cindy@dgator.com
Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 02:02:01
Subject: RE: CAYLEE MARIE ANTHONY HAS BEEN FOUND ALIVE!

It is a sick cruel hateful email initiated strictly to cause harm, inflict pain, and cause reaction. Block the sender and hold your hea [missing text].

******************************

From: Cindy Anthony cindy@dgator.com
Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 02:09:55
To: dominiccasey@msn.com
Subject: RE: CAYLEE MARIE ANTHONY HAS BEEN FOUND ALIVE!

I have Jim calling the station now. It is a valid number.

******************************

From: Dominic Casey (dominiccasey@msn.com)
Sent: 5/19/09 213AM
To: Cindy Anthony cindy@dgator.com

Of course it is. I ran the number.

******************************

Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 20:06:06 -0700
From: aandjmac@mchsi.com
To: cindy@dgator.com
CC:
Subject: Yahoo! Maps, Driving Directions, and Traffic

James L. McIntyre (aandjmac@mchsi.com) has sent you a Yahoo! Map
******************************
Personal message:

This is where Caylee is. She is being held in Bungalow 19. If you see the swimming pool, she was seen there several times.

********************************

From: Cindy Anthony cindy@dgator.com
To: dominiccasey@msn.com
Subject: FW: Yahoo! Maps, Driving Directions, and Traffic
Date: May 23, 2009 10:28PM

Any way to check this out??????

*******************************

From: Dominic Casey (dominiccasey@msn.com)
Sent: 5/24/09 2:39AM
To: Cindy Anthony cindy@dgator.com

I will get in touch with a PI in area to check out!

*
*
*
*

This guy seems to believe he’s a supersleuth, and he’s got a history! Check out his posts on this website:

http://showcase.netins.net/web/keithh/guest.html

A sample:

Name: James L. McIntyre
Email:aandjmac@mchsi.com
Location: Minnesota, United States
Date: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 at 09:23:09

Comments:
A mud splattered woman’s business suit was recovered in 1999 and the Kansas Bureau of Investigation 1-800-572-7463. They have the crime lab number and will be happy to give it to you. They also have the T-shirt blouse and jogging shorts of Julie Ann Holmquist of Hallock, Minnesota. They were killed by the same man and he was captured in 1999. He killed five women and they want to try him for murder, but they need the still unidentified (identified)! The three women are Jennifer Renee Odom Dade City, Florida – Jodi Sue Huisentruit – Mason City, Iowa – Julie Ann Holmquist – Hallock, Minnesota Jodi Huisentruit was last seen in a Minnesota convenience store nine years ago. Her remains are in MINNESOTA.

Note from the Webmaster: Sir – your comments have been noted, and shared with authorities – and they have made no connections between the Kansas subject, and Jodi’s case. They also tell me they’ve heard the same things posted here from you. They have looked at your information. And, Your statement regarding Jodi’s last known whereabouts is not accurate – she was known to be in her appartment on the day of her abduction – she spoke with co-workers by phone.

Re: The 1,200 photos

In George’s July 24 OCSO interview, detectives John Allen and Yuri Melich told George about 1,200 photos in Casey’s Photobucket account:

Pages 46-47:

John Allen: George, George, you know that Casey has, ah, posted pictures online, ah, that, that are kind of a photo . . .

Yuri Melich: Photobucket.

Allen: A Photobucket folder, okay? Uhm, and somebody has since put, and I don’t know how they did it, but they put some sort of link to it, and well, anybody can get on and look and see now.

Melich: It’s, ah, it’s not good.

Allen: And she, well and, and there’s twelve hundred pictures in there, okay? The pictures, some of them are, are pretty bad, and ah, but that’s not the point I’m trying to make to you, okay?

George: I understand.

Allen: The point I’m trying to make is there’s twelve hundred pictures in it. Twelve hundred pictures, okay? We’ve talked to all of her friends. Do you know how many p . . . do you know how many pictures of, ah, there are of, of, ah, Zenaida in there out of that twelve hundred? Zero, okay? Do you know how many people we’ve talked to that, you know, that has ever seen Zenaida of her friends? Zero, okay?

The conversation never got back to the photos during that interview (per the 71-page transcript). However, the tape recorder was turned off at the very end because George was getting sick, so it’s possible the detectives discussed the photos again with George before he left.

****

One week later, in George’s July 31 FBI interview, George told Scott Bolin that the OCSO detectives told him about Casey’s 1,200 pictures:

Pages 8-9

George: I even have some things that I can share with you guys. I’m gonna share with local law enforcement. But they took me aside before the date of the 9-1-1 tapes were released.

Bolin: Uh-huh (affirmative).

George: And they told me that somewhere in the neighborhood, like twelve hundred different photos of my daughter, I guess, are out there somewhere, that she’s in some . . . in . . . she’s done some bad things, so.

Bolin: Right.

George: I’m sure I don’t know if they shared it with you or anything like that. But when I heard that, I got even sick about that. Because I’m like, I, I thought I knew my daughter. I don’t know what’s going on, and, and . . .

Bolin: Right.

George: . . and I don’t want to speculate anything bad, but I didn’t even pass it on to my wife. My, my son don’t even know that, that’s just something that these guys wanted me to just . . .

Bolin: (inaudible)

George: “George, you, you need to understand something. This is all the stuff we’re finding out through this MySpace on your, on your personal computer. On your wife’s, ah, laptop, this is stuff that’s found. Photos were found on a camera . . . “ Like, you’re kidding me. I’m starting to get sicker, you know, I mean this is the . . .

Page 10:

George: Just that’s some things that I didn’t even, haven’t shared with my wife. “Cause this, that would just devastate her even more.

Bolin: Right.

George: It’s hard enough for her to . . . go through this stuff, so.

Bolin: If . . .you can bet, and I don’t, I don’t mean to be pessimistic, but you can bet that if it’s on your tower . . . and they found it, it’s on somebody else’s tower, too.

George: Yes.

Bolin: So even if they don’t release it, at some point, somebody’s gonna try and profit off it.

Page 11:

George: I know once it’s out there, it’s, it’s, it’s gone . . . the cyber world that we live in.

Bolin: Right.

George: Stuff, I, I understand (inaudible) . . .

Bolin: Once it’s been sent out, it’s captured somewhere and somebody’s gonna try and find it and exploit it.

Pages 88-89:

George: . . . I guess there’s a lot of drugs that float through [Fusian]. Thinking my daughter’s in drug . . .involved in that. I don’t want to think that, but then I brought up the thing about the twelve hundred pictures that I was told by Detective Melich and Detective Allen that they pulled off. I’m not sure if they pulled off our tower or off my, my wife’s laptop. I don’t know where they got that information from. Or they get it from MySpace page. I don’t know.

Bolin: Uh-huh (affirmative).

George: But that was something else he said, “We found some very provocative images of your daughter.” And he said, “I just want to lay it out there to you, Sir.” He said, “I just want you to know that we’re trying to keep everything we can as low key . . . But if we do, it’s . . . . “

Bolin: In the event of . . .

George: If this thing goes to where I think it, the way it’s going . . . I know it’s gonna be brought out and that’s gonna be devastating to my wife. It’s gonna kill . . . I don’t know if it’ll kill my son, but I’m living with that inside me. I want to tell ‘em but I can’t. ‘Cause then it’s gonna be like, oh my gosh, what else did she do, you know?

*****

On February 26, Jose Baez filed a motion for a protective order to block the release of Casey’s Photobucket images. In the motion, Jose Baez made the following points:

1. On February 25th, 2009, the State of Florida provided the undersigned several computer discs, two of which contained copies of images from Casey Marie Anthony’s Photobucket.com account.
2. The aforementioned discs contain hundreds, if not thousands, of images, many of which are irrelevant to this case.
3. These discs will be provided to the media, with the sole purpose of embarrassing or harassing the Defendant, or at the very least, painting the Defendant in a negative light.
4. The Defense hereby requests that the State of Florida select the images it intends to use as exhibits during the trial, and not to release the remainder of the images which are obviously irrelevant to this case.
5. Law enforcement has already leaked images throughout this case, many of which were taken long before Caylee Marie Anthony went missing. Additionally, many of these images have been used for sensationalizing this case and painting the Defendant in a negative light.

*****

On March 2, 2009, Judge Strickland heard Jose Baez’s arguments to block the release those embarrassing photos from Casey’s Photobucket account. Baez said Casey had several Photobucket accounts, some public and some private. He said there are pictures on Casey’s accounts that were not available for public viewing that he wanted to stop from being released to the public. Baez also said of the two discs of images the SAO had given him on February 25 that one was filtered and the other was unfiltered, and he only had a problem with the images in the unfiltered disc.

The Orlando Sentinel’s attorney, Rachel Fugate, argued in favor of releasing the photos, many of which already had been saved and distributed online. She said the Orlando Sentinel wanted the photos released to the public and argued that they had obtained many of the photos the previous summer but had not released themselves released the images to the public, so Baez’s motion would not stop them from getting the images in the first place.

The State Attorney’s Office, represented by ASA Bill Vose, said the state “doesn’t have a dog in this fight.”

Judge Strickland ruled to deny Baez’s motion, and the images that Baez had received on the two discs on February 25 became public record.

*****

FYI – Even though the two discs of Casey’s Photobucket images became public record after Strickland’s ruling on March 2, not all the images were released to the public by the media. Nevertheless, many of the photos of Casey and her friends that WERE released to the public were vulgar and bawdy – those alone IMO are the “pretty bad” photos of Casey that George was warned about.

As for what was not released to the public by the media, a link was available on Websleuths (IIRC) last year that contained the contents of those discs that became public record. Someone (maybe Muzikman) went to the courthouse to get the discs because they weren’t made available to the public in their entirety by any media outlet (the media released a selection of the images). I downloaded the file (it took about 30-45 minutes to download because it was so huge) and skimmed the images. The images I saw included a number of x-rated graphics and some naughty animated cartoons, but there were no pornographic photos of Casey of the lollipop variety.

I don’t believe OCSO and/or the FBI are in possession of any raunchy photos of Casey that were not released by the SAO last March.

And since I know people will ask me for a link . . . I have since deleted the file from my computer, so I don’t have it to share, nor do I recall exactly where I got the link for the file. I am pretty sure the link was on Websleuths, but I don’t recall the name of the thread it was on. If anyone wants to go looking for it, all I can say is that the link was available after March 2, 2009.

FRG said: { Mar 5, 2010 – 06:03:45 }
WSH said: { Mar 5, 2010 – 06:03:12 }
…docket, still opens fine for me..

http://myclerk.myorangeclerk.com/CaseDetail.aspx?CaseID=6236234

Valhall said: { Mar 5, 2010 – 06:03:48 }
It is my understanding (which is usually limited in this arena) that once you get on the state’s payroll in your defense EVERYTHING is pretty much capped. In other words, all rates and all expenditures will have to be passed by the state for approval first.

*****

Yes. In the Jason Lenz case, he filed for indigent status six months after his arrest. The court docket indicates that he was approved for specific expenses, such as 25 hours for an investigator at a rate set by the county, and forensic experts for 15 hours each at a rate set by the county (rates were not specified on the docket but the docket noted that the rates were on the administrative forms Richard Hornsby received).

Also, when the topic of indigent status came up months ago (I believe when the SAO was trying to find out what kind of payment arrangement Casey and Baez had), I read comments that if Casey ever filed for indigent status, she would have to reveal how much money she had spent to date and how and where the money came from.

Well, I guess we’re about to find out just what part of Caylee’s spirit Casey sold so far, now aren’t we?

Yes Maura

I think that Silver said that Casey would have to reveal where the money came from, maybe Hornsby did too. But since that info was sealed the first go-round, I wonder if the judge would release it to the public now.

FRG said: { Mar 5, 2010 – 05:03:51 }

OMG, do we”tax payers” have to pay for KC’s defense? That’s outrageous!!!
Thank you!!!

*****

The right to defense counsel is in the US Constitution – ‘if you cannot afford an attorney, one will be provided at no cost to you.’

In situations like this in which she started out with private counsel and then ran out of money, the courts will generally allow her to keep her lawyers, but the lawyers have to work for a rate set by the state. They don’t get to charge $500 an hour.

Rates for everything else are similarly controlled by the state/county although as a defendant facing the death penalty, she’s going to be allocated more money than a defendant who is not facing death.

Val,

This is interesting:
Snip
http://www.clickorlando.com/news/22757022/detail.html
“Anthony has already paid Baez and death penalty expert Andrea Lyon $111,954, but Baez said that is not enough to give Anthony the defense she needs, and taxpayers should make up the difference. Nearly $90,000 of the amount was used for Baez’s fees, the remainder covered Lyon’s costs. She is working on the case for free.”

How many of those high priced experts will stay? Supposedly, some were going to look at evidence over a secure server, then that didn’t work out so then Baez was going to mail photos (at least of the autopsy). I wonder if any have been paid to date.

Why do they (defense) have to travel to different states to interview people? The state interviewed Kronk’s ex via skype.

Maybe the expense is carting all the defense attorneys on planes from all over the country?

I thought that it was reported that Casey sold photos of Caylee to the tune of $200,000. Am I incorrect?

Maura said: { Mar 5, 2010 – 06:03:39 }

Thank you very much!!! I do understand that… what I think it is not fair is that KC has a long list of lawyers and experts, doesn’t she?
Is it possible that this trial is going to stall more it has because of it? Just wondering.

I heard that but I don’t think it was ever substantiated. I believe it was in a news report.

» Maura said: { Mar 5, 2010 – 06:03:44 }
Re: James McIntyre – Another kook

..no kidding !what a lunatic!
..and then—-for cindy and don to email back and forth about it forever–5 months after caylee’s body has BEEN id’d of course—–anything to keep the notion going—-and to keep the faithful few clicking the paypal link on cindy’s site.

..of note also, i see “rosebud” was set up with an @dgator D&A email address as well ,
( super P.I. probably assured her that would keep those emails between the 2 of them safe, and priviliged).
..oh cindy, tragic as it all is, you do make me laugh.

My last post was to L Smith

The bottom line: The defense wants taxpayers to pay for such items as depositions, transcripts, investigators, legal research, expert witness fees and travel expenses — costs that Pipitone said could reach $200,000 to $300,000.
This request would not affect the attorneys’ fees, Pipitone said.

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/entertainment_tv_tvblog/2010/03/casey-anthony-defense-asks-state-to-pick-up-costs-wkmg-reports.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+entertainment%2Ftv%2Ftvguy+%28TV+Guy%29

I am a Florida resident and taxpayer of 30+ years. I am mad. Who can I write to? It is not only because the defendant is Casey Anthony that makes my blood boil. She asked for a public defender initially, then along comes Baez. This was her choice. Baez should have known she had no means of income after the Universal interview. I have told my story before and I need to vent. A man incarcerated in a Florida prison was sentenced to 80+ years. After completing is Culinary Degree while in prison and serving less than 5 years of an eighty year sentence he was place as a chef in a work release program to cook for the other prisoners. While there less that 6 months he escaped one morning after breakfast and it wasn’t noticed that he was missing until after ten in the morning. My first husband and I were newly married, had just built our first house and went to work every morning at 7 am. I had recently graduated from college and I was almost 22 years old. He spent the day at my house going through all of our paperwork and finding our gun. He also stole an 18 inch butcher knife from the work release. My husband returned home first and was tied up in our office at gun point, when I walked in the door gun to my head and knife to my throat I was taken to our master bedroom. I was tied to our poster bed , had my clothes cut off and raped multiple times including the gun and the knife. He shot our dog in the head, a little Llasa Apso. This prisoner stole our money, our car, my husbands identity and my jewelery, including my wedding ring. He was caught 10 days later in Oklahoma after wrecking our car in Tennessee during a high speed chase. After returning to Florida, he escaped from the county jail using sheets to scale down the building. I was notified by LE and had to leave the state. Which I had to pay for. He was eventually caught and plea bargained to 4 Life Sentences. Even though we had insurance for the car and the house after depreciation, deductibles and non covered items we lost money. After this we put our house up for sale and sold at a loss. All of which was debt that we had to pay off. After almost 20 years I have not been able to return to work due to the horrific nature of the crimes committed against me. The only thing that we didn’t have to pay for was the rape kit and did I mention that I found out I was pregnant with my daughter during this proceedure. My husband left me when my daughter was 6 weeks old because everytime he looked at me he would have flash backs of finding my naked, bloody body tied to our bed. In the state of Florida I do not qualify for any type of loans,grants or victim compensation as our losses were covered by insurance and my post traumatic stress qualifies me to see a counselor at rape crisis but not the psychiatrist. My health insurance does not cover mental health related problems. My daughter does not qualify for financial aid. Thank god she is smart and was eligible for bright futures and the little money that I paid into her Florida Pre Paid college fund. Yet, my tax dollars will cover Casey Anthony’s legal defense, the man that did this to me was able to return to school using our tax dollars, and now experts, searchers, and whoever else needs to be deposed. Will we the tax payers have to pay Mort in his search for the nanny once funds are available from the state. Will all of the pro bono lawyers, experts and jury consulants now be able to charge a fee since the state is picking up the tab. I believe in justice for all and everyone deserves a fair trial, however, with this case the mind games, manipulation of the system and the chase of the almighty dollar for all of those involved is just sickening and needs to stop. Thanks for letting me blow off steam and thanks to Val, ellejay, and FRG for this information about the new motion. The SA must have something good for the defense to play this card so soon. Even though Lyons laid the ground work at the Fraud trial, I didn’t expect to see a motion so soon.

That’s truly awful.

Been reading for quite a while and was hoping someone would post the same point of view that I had. Everyone seems to think that KC gets mad when they state what they think she did to Caylee because she finally has to face the truth about what she did. I have a totally different opinion on that. She gets mad because they have the details wrong in her eyes. In her head she is screaming because she sooooo wants to tell them ” No!! That’s not how I did it!!!” She always has to be right and can’t stand the fact that she can’t tell them they are wrong, not about her doing it but about how she did it. It’s very frustrating for her. That’s my observation anyway…I could be wrong but that has been my experience with people like her.

S Davidson – I feel your outrage.

» FRG said: { Mar 5, 2010 – 06:03:04 }
“Anthony has already paid Baez and death penalty expert Andrea Lyon $111,954, but Baez said that is not enough to give Anthony the defense she needs, and taxpayers should make up the difference. Nearly $90,000 of the amount was used for Baez’s fees, the remainder covered Lyon’s costs. She is working on the case for free.”
————————————————————–

so, baez has been making 4500.00 a month since july ’08, ” the remainder 21,900.00 has been paid to lyon—-who is working for free.” ( i want to work for FREE somewhere , and get a 21,000.00 check!)

..does this mean that NO one else involved on the def. team have been paid at ALL to date ? sucks to be them—-and STILL have to put up with coddling kc.

it’s obvious that this precious little girl has payed for everything for this defense i could scream when i write this so much i don’t care if it’s legal or not it is extremely morally reprhensible!! to the 1st degree and biazz walks into that court with that huge smirk on his face while his client thinks this is such a fun game!!! i cannot go into the family right now…there home is in foreclosure but they still can dump $100 every month into that THINGS ACCOUNT!

I don’t get it. When rights are read at time of arrest it is stated that everyone is entitled to an attorney and if a person can’t afford one, then one will be appointed. Nowhere does it say that a person can make a choice (if they have no money) and that then the lawyer that they choose can then turn around and choose an expensive defense TEAM of attorneys at tax payers’ expense. What is the difference here in this case? She has no money so why does she get to choose Baez and why does Baez get to choose all these extras and why should the tax payers pay for it?
S. Davidson, your nightmare and all the favors given to the criminals rather than the victims is why I get so angry at our justice system. I grew up believing in “justice for ALL” and I feel so tricked and foolish at this point in life for buying it when I was young.

Martie McKenzie said she was paid for her year’s work. Her time can’t be cheap. What about Jose Garcia? He visits Casey more often then Baez. I guess the $90,000 could have been paid to the Baez Law Firm and covered all of his lawyers time.

Oh boy, I hope this means that the mysterious benefactor’s name and the amount donated will come to light. You know the “sympathetic family” from Conn. that prepaid all of those people who went by the name of Todd Black a significant amount of money way back when.

If Casey (or her parents) were really paid $250,000 by a major network for Caylee images, will they have to account for where the money went in order for Casey to be declared indigent or can they get around that if her parents received the money?

Ellejay said: { Mar 5, 2010 – 07:03:01 }

KC was indigent from the day she went to jail, she had no income therefore no money. Yes, Caylee is paying her defense’s killer, isn’t that disgusting??? JB waited 20 months to notice his client is “INDIGENT”. That’s when I get mad. JB is irresponsible and should be punished for this. JB is an opportunistic and saw the golden pot at the end of the rainbow when KC was on the National headlines. Bad, bad counseling!!! This should have been resolved as my hubby says in a “speedy trial”. I am appalled. 8O
Just venting good people.

Well, if it’s in the Constitution as Maura states…then I guess we’ll have to consider the cost of everything that leads to a trial our “entertainment fee.” As long as the grand finale is what we are all hoping for, lets say our money could be less wisely spent.

Nosy…

Let’s get something straight that has been twisted around in a lot of places and in a lot of ways.

CINDY AND GEORGE’S ASSETS HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH CASEY’S DEFENSE.

And they are not intentionally losing their home because of that either. Casey was 22 years old when charged with these crimes. Cindy and George have no obligation, nor can Casey in anyway be tied to their assets in her defense.

It doesn’t matter that she was living with them. Nor does it matter that she wasn’t working. She is not a dependent. She wasn’t a dependent then. She’s an emancipated adult.

P.S.

Which means Cindy and George are just total f***ing losers who have decided to either not pay their mortgage and lose their home. Or have decided to do some kind of shady deal where they buy their own home at auction through their “charitable organization”.

Either way they’re dirt-wads.

I agree with you SandyinMA……I don’t think Casey has one shred of remorse for what she has done to her child, family or friends.
The only regret she suffers from is that she cannot tell anyone how she did it. Can you imagine someone as self centered as Casey unable to tell anyone of the most important thing she has ever done in her life.

Is the defense doing some sideways maneuver when they say they don’t want public funding for attorneys’ fees but only for deposition costs, etc.? Semantics I know but maybe there’s a loophole if they don’t ask for attorney fees per se, where they would not have to reveal their source of funding to the state? Is the attorney fee exclusion some kind of exemption from full disclosure?

I have no idea.

Also, it’s being speculated that this has been planned from the git go because Andrea L. made a point of telling/reminding the court in a recent hearing that Casey declared herself indigent right at the beginning and this declaration still holds so the defense would not have to re-assert?

Again, what am I saying? lol.

Well they already did reveal their source of funding in a closed door meeting with the state and the judge way back. Maybe they don’t want to bring that up to date and be exposed to further examination?

Val i love how you let it out sometimes!!

Thanks Val. I do understand that Casey is an adult and her parents are in no way responsible for her debts. I shouldn’t have put or her parents in brackets. I was not clear when I worded the question, “If Casey (or her parents) were really paid $250,000 by a major network for Caylee images, will they have to account for where the money went in order for Casey to be declared indigent or can they get around that if her parents received the money?”.

By “they” I was referring to Casey and whomever may have brokered a deal for her, putting the money in her name to pay for her defense. If George and Cindy brokered the deal and received the money in their name and then paid the said money towards Casey’s defense, then I guess we won’t be privy to the details. They can just say they ran out of money like Scott Peterson’s parents eventually did.

I’ve now confused even myself with my own explanation for my question. I’m just hoping that the financial side of things will be exposed. I think we’ve all been extremely curious about the details of the financial backing in this case.

Yep, I understand what you’re saying Nosy. And my passionate comment above wasn’t necessarily directed at you but at the whole confusilated issue of what the Anthonys are doing with their home (or I should say NOT doing) and Casey’s defense fund. I’ve read a LOT of hogwash at other sites about this.

I’m thinking they (Casey and defense) will have to reveal all funding sources AND where it all went now that they have their hands out.

SandyinMA said: { Mar 5, 2010 – 07:03:03 }

Yes, I agree with you. I think LE is pretty close in their guess of what happened but Casey is teed off because this little or that little detail is not true. She sees LE as lying to everyone about her…now she knows what it feels like, I guess.
Another thing I noticed:
The only emotion she does well is anger.

Mimi,

The only emotion she does well is anger.

No truer statement spoken.

PS: My above comments on the financial aspect of the case can just be ignored, I hope…I wrote before I had read enough of what others had to say…and who knew what they were talking about. In fact, today was a day of writing before thinking things through (as can be witnessed on another thread.) Today would have gone better if I had just stayed lurky.

I have those days, too, Mimi. Unfortunately, sometimes they don’t get buried in the comments.

» L. Smith said: { Mar 5, 2010 – 02:03:14 }
Guys……do not want to butt in…..but, the name Deb Walker sounds familiar…
____________________________________________________________

..was just reading this entire thread—-and realized cecelia, posting just what she’d read at “topix”, mentions deb walker…:

( it’s upthread )

Cecelia had also shared these comments:

Somebody that goes by somethingswrong others ( at topix ) have said she’s deb walker is saying the indictment for murder is defective and its just a matter of time basically til she’s freed.
_____________________________________________________________________

..regarding kc’s indigent status:

..what i don’t understand ( among many things anthony!) is how—-at her very FIRST hearing ,july 16 or 17 2008:

judge: do you request the services of a public defender to represent you ?

kc : yes sir.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JS-qSflO43c

..a possible scenario for the next day:

judge: ms. anthony you requested to see me ?
kc: yes sir
judge: you know this is highly improper, i generally ‘rule and roll’.
kc: but i’m kc anthony!
judge: i understand this is in regards to your public defender?
kc: yes, and are you f***cking KIDDING me! the guy is a WASTE—he doesn’t believe a word i say, doesn’t see that I AM the victim here…
judge: did you not ask for a public defender yesterday, claim indigent status?
kc:no
judge: yes, it’s on record.
kc: just b/c you HEARD that doesn’t mean i said it. and if i did i don’t remember.and i now have money for a real lawyer, everyone one else in the holding cell fell asleep, i just stole all of their money.and i picked the bailiff’s pocket on the way in this morning…..i HAVE money!

but seriously——how DID she go from public defender to baez in the blink of an eye?

ellejay said: { Mar 5, 2010 – 10:03:51 }

..regarding kc’s indigent status:

..what i don’t understand ( among many things anthony!) is how—-at her very FIRST hearing ,july 16 or 17 2008:

judge: do you request the services of a public defender to represent you ?

kc : yes sir.
but seriously——how DID she go from public defender to baez in the blink of an eye?

It has been stated that another prisoner suggested Baez as being a good lawyer. But, we know that is not true because why would Casey assume that she could choose him? She had just been asked if she wanted a public defender and agreed to that in front of a judge so what made her think she could have anyone else of her choosing? Somebody had to approach her and wise her up to the fact that she COULD choose Baez rather than wait for a public defender to contact her. Somebody who was already thinking, feeling and smelling money IMO and followed their nose right over to the jail to speak with Casey. Casey had never been arrested before and there is no indication that she knew the ropes. IMO, she was approached and educated shortly after her visit in front of the judge.

yes mimi , thankyou.

..i have heard kc’s explanation to lee, in a jail recording , when he asks her how baez came to be her lawyer. ” in ‘holding’, his name came up——so i said “well, if he’s good——pass my name along”…

..i suppose baez could have been hanging around jails to pick up extra clients——but don’t they ask for money up front ( knowing they’re getting a client who was previously using a public defender? )

..did she just say, oh , i’m a successful event planner—-with 15 grand in the bank—blah blah, and he took her on ?

..i’ve just always thought something PEF about her hooking up with baez right in the beginning.maybe i’m just over thinking it.

NosyParker said: { Mar 5, 2010 – 07:03:23 }
Martie McKenzie said she was paid for her year’s work. Her time can’t be cheap. What about Jose Garcia? He visits Casey more often then Baez.
_________________________________________________________________
…you’re right, between the 9th of january, and march 3rd of this year, baez has been there approx. 7 hours, jose garcia just slightly more, and andrea a whopping ONE hour! ( in 2 months!) macaluso stopped by for an hour on feb. 3rd, to say his good-byes….
_________________________________________________________________

..if these are the ONLY people kc gets out of her cell to talk to, WHAT an existence (boo hoo).

..from january 2-march 3 2010, ( 60 days ) her visitor log totals approx. 24 hrs. most are less than an hour duration, the only lengthy one being jose garcia, feb.20th, from 1:24 p.m.-5:04 p.m….. 60 days divided by 24 hours = spiteful b*tch ?

p.s. re: kc’s visitor info——i’m certainly not taking credit for it! i came across kind of a “double-link” , from “chica” from Blink, linked backed to “the caylee daily”.

..the blink-link didn’t work for me…….hope it’s fine to link the tcd link:
http://www.cayleedaily.com/2010/03/casey-anthonys-most-recent-jail-visitors/

..smart(er than me) posters all over the web, united in this case !

I believe we started talking about this before but never came to any conclusions since we are not privy to the info, but — do we know whether Cindy was claiming KC and/or Caylee as dependents on her taxes? I mean even though KC was over 22 her mother still could claim her on taxes if she claims she is paying more than some % of her support, correct? And after all Cindy was providing room, board, +.

So — IF —- Cindy were claiming KC as a dependent on taxes would that make her a dependent for legal purposes (criminal purposes?)? Please someone in-the-know please enlighten me.

Angela_nw said: { Mar 6, 2010 – 03:03:19 }

..according to cindy’s civil depo—–they were not claiming kc /or caylee as dependants.

Question: now, do you or your husband claim casey, your daughter, as a dependant on your taxes ?
Answer: No, i haven’t claimed casey since she was 18 years old.
Question: So, it’s fair to say she did, or should have, paid her own taxes?

http://www.wftv.com/pdf/19734379/detail.html ( page 9 on..)

» Angela_nw said: { Mar 6, 2010 – 03:03:19 }

I believe we started talking about this before but never came to any conclusions since we are not privy to the info, but — do we know whether Cindy was claiming KC and/or Caylee as dependents on her taxes? I mean even though KC was over 22 her mother still could claim her on taxes if she claims she is paying more than some % of her support, correct? And after all Cindy was providing room, board, +.

No, she couldn’t claim her. There are strict requirements that must be met for anyone over the age of 18 to be claimed as a dependent (disability, full-time student) and Casey didn’t meet any of those. Free-loader does not meet the requirement for dependent.

Thanks for the response on the def. indict. sets my mind at ease a little,
now i wonder whats going to happen with the duhfense declaring her indigent. they surely won’t get to keep all the hi-powered “proffessionals”.. will they?

seems as if linda baden really hasn’t been much of a presence (except in the media)
we haven’t seen or heard from dr lee, since he DIDN’T want the car raised so he could look at the undercarriage. they surely have experts IN florida instead of having to pay the cost to import them.

hopefully this backfires on them as some of their sleazy tactics have already, and comes back to bite them and bite them HARD!

Good morning Val, morning everybody!!!

Did you read this Notice Of Additional Documents In The Possession Of Equusearch, filed in February 26, 2010 by Mark NeJame?

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/27552747/TES-Additional-Docs-Notice

It’s me again 8O
I certainly am in agreement with it:
Snip:
“Since taxpayer dollars could be involved, the judge could question Anthony’s attorneys about any possible book or movie deals that may be planned.
If Anthony does have money coming in from any such deals, she would be obligated to reimburse the county.”
http://www.wftv.com/news/22757843/detail.html

» Valhall said: { Mar 5, 2010 – 07:03:55 }
Nosy…
Let’s get something straight that has been twisted around in a lot of places and in a lot of ways.
CINDY AND GEORGE’S ASSETS HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH CASEY’S DEFENSE.
Val
I agree. On the other hand, it may be for the appearance of “we paid for Casey’s defense”, if the judge again seals the source of Casey’s income. This way it drives the attention away from ‘ where did Casey get that money?’ But, they may also have been really paying for some of the defense, and are legitimately broke. I don’t think Henry Lee was working pro bono ( Maura might know). I remember some kind of statement where he said he doesn’t even consider work or come out , unless there are X amount of dollars, I recall it being a lot, and something about flying first class…Was this real or imagined? Anyone?
Also, there was that other pathologist: Kobolinsky (sp?) . I can’t imagine he was working for free. So -maybe the Anthonys did pay for some expenses toward the defense. OR-Maybe the rest of the $ 200K went toward the experts, or some combination of both??

Okay, I’m back to arguing with myself in a way, but I forgot some of the details.

Valhall said: { Mar 6, 2010 – 04:03:03 }

No, she couldn’t claim her. There are strict requirements that must be met for anyone over the age of 18 to be claimed as a dependent (disability, full-time student) and Casey didn’t meet any of those. Free-loader does not meet the requirement for dependent.

*****

Casey did not meet the criteria for a dependent CHILD after 2003, but she and Caylee both met the personal deduction criteria for qualifying relatives in 2006, 2007, and 2008.

A qualifying relative . . .

*Can’t be claimed as a qualifying child by the child’s parents

*Has a low gross annual income (less than $3,650 in current year)

*Has at least half his or her total support paid for during the year by the filer claiming the person exemption

*Is related to the filer claiming the exemption

*Cannot file a joint return with his or her spouse (if married)

*Is a citizen or resident alien of the United States, Canada, or Mexico.

******

Casey and Caylee both qualified as personal deductions for George and Cindy as dependent relatives.

Correcting myself:

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0812/15/ng.01.html
GRACE: Back to Dr. Henry Lee, who, as you all know, is a famed forensic scientist on the Anthony defense team. Dr. Lee, I`ve just got to ask you, you know, tot mom Casey Anthony was siphoning gasoline from her family`s car to fill up her own tank. How the heck are you getting paid? I`m sure you`re costing a pretty penny. Dr. Lee does not come cheap.

LEE: No, we did not get any pay for that and for — I`ll say, you know, this country, as you know, everybody entitled a defense. And many forensic experts, we do pro bono cases and that`s our obligation to our profession. As an expert, we look at evidence, doesn`t matter inculpatory, exculpatory, we report (ph) as it is. I don`t think should be labeled as a defense expert going to just for defense. Many time, found more evidence, inculpatory evidence, than the police found. There — you know, case history, case example, many time we`re allowed to work on the case together. Many of my cases, I let the defense expert observe. It`s nothing wrong.

GRACE: So Dr. Lee…

LEE: Nothing unusual.

GRACE: Dr. Lee, are you telling me that you are working on the case pro bono, for free?

LEE: Yes.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0810/23/ng.01.html

GRACE: Good question. To Kathi Belich from WFTV. Has Baez taken this pro bono?

BELICH: No, he says he`s being paid. He will not say who is paying him and the best we can do is they`ve apparently — ABC did confirm that it paid some licensing fees for some photos. Other than that, we have no idea where the money is coming from.

I just saw Casey’s “Jail Commisary report” for last month….

Cindy deposited $100
George deposite $50

Total $150

Oh, they can cough up the sheckles(sp?) for a lifetime suppy of “jalapeno peanuts” and “bottled water” ( Nancy Grace’s personal pet peeve irritant) but they can’t pay their OWN F-ING $700 MORTGAGE?

Oh, REALLY?…Oh, really?

ivoire

oops, I should have posted this here instead of the other post…

Angela_nw said: { Mar 6, 2010 – 03:03:19 }

So — IF —- Cindy were claiming KC as a dependent on taxes would that make her a dependent for legal purposes (criminal purposes?)? Please someone in-the-know please enlighten me.

*****

I don’t believe so. Even if Cindy and George claimed Casey and Caylee as dependent relatives (they both met the criteria from 2006-2008), that would not make George and Cindy liable for paying the costs of Casey’s criminal defense.

I can’t find whether Kobilinsky was working pro bono , or not. Maura, do you remember?

Excerpted page on Kobilinsky: he has PHD, not MD, not pathologist, sorry, got that wrong too. Not even sure if he is still on the defense’s witness list:

http://www.gc.cuny.edu/faculty/folio/spring2005/bloodwork.htm
……Back home, Kobilinsky’s own criminal justice research takes several tacks. One is his recent push to add greater rigor and science to the way crime investigators collect, document, examine, and match bite marks to exemplars (orthodontic casts taken from suspects).
“Why bite marks? Virtually all Federal grant money is going into DNA testing now, but that has been to the neglect of other kinds of evidence–latent fingerprint, hair, bite-mark, document examination, fiber evidence, and other kinds,” he explains.
Indeed, in a number of recent cases, fingerprint or bite-mark findings of guilt have clashed with subsequent DNA test results exonerating the same suspects.
“I’ve been very critical of forensic procedures that are more art than science,” he says. “So much of this bite-mark examination is subjective, just as it is with fingerprints. There is no clear protocol or system for the examiner who must make the call as to whether or not this bite mark matches the bite pattern from a suspect; it mostly comes down to feeling, opinion, and experience.”
With graduate student Kathleen Pfeiffer and forensic dentist Dr. Ira Titunik, Kobilinsky has been using an image processing computer software known as Lucis to digitize, and then transform into grey tones, photographs of bite marks on victims. The resulting images can then be matched to a growing catalogue of Lucis-transformed images of sample bite marks from suspects.
“This is about putting more objectivity into that examination,” he says. “What we’re trying to do is bring more science to that process.”
Kobilinsky also remains active on the DNA front: Another of his projects is a concerted effort to improve the scientific protocols used in lab work. New advances in DNA testing, particularly of so-called low-copy number DNA samples, have increased the power of the tests but also the potential for errors in identification. Because the low-copy method uses such small numbers of DNA molecules–genetic profiles have been generated from as little as a single human cell (and there are trillions of cells in the body)–the testing must be done especially carefully.
“These low-copy techniques are very useful in cases of burglary and robbery, where you might only find a single smudged latent fingerprint or a bit of hair,” Kobilinsky says. “You might turn up some good investigative leads. But the flip side of this is that contamination can ruin everything. For example, if even a few cells slough off the investigator’s hair or skin and gets into the sample, it’s contaminated. Or if some DNA-containing evidence was already present at the crime scene prior to the criminal event, you could generate an irrelevant genetic profile. Even if you get ‘successful’ typing results, you may not always be able to interpret them properly.”……

Val, have you debated the body farm scientific reports? If you do, can oyu please post me the link to it. Thank you so much!!
Here is a snip from NG (your BFF, just kidding )
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0811/17/ng.01.html

“Let`s go to Dr. Lawrence Kobilinsky, famed forensic scientist out of the John Jay College of Criminal Justice. He is a consultant on the Casey Anthony defense team. You heard what Lee had to say about Oak Ridge Laboratories, the Body Farm. Do you agree or disagree?

LAWRENCE KOBILINSKY, FORENSIC SCIENTIST, CONSULTANT TO CASEY ANTHONY DEFENSE TEAM: Well, I too am a very good friend of Bill Bass. Let me just say this. The conclusion of their report on air sampling says that it could be human decomposition. It does not say that it is.

That tells me it could be a lot of other things, which apparently is what Doctor Lee is saying.

GRACE: But it is decomposition. That is confirmed. They just don`t know whether it`s human or animal.

KOBILINSKY: That`s — that is correct.

GRACE: You know, every time you give me an answer, you leave out a little fact, like that big study you told me about, how half of all of the cars searched turned up with chloroform in the trunk. And then I found out only one car turned up with chloroform in the trunk.

KOBILINSKY: Yes, one out of two and the fact that.

GRACE: Yes, I can`t believe you`re actually reiterating it.

KOBILINSKY: Well, the fact that there`s a car with chloroform tells us that that is possible.

GRACE: And, and is what was the amount, the percentage of chloroform in that car?

KOBILINSKY: Well, the fact that it`s there tells us.

GRACE: Negligible, negligible, as opposed to highly saturated in Casey Anthony`s car.

KOBILINSKY: Well, the fact that it was there tells us it can form in a vehicle.

GRACE: I hope you don`t jump up at trial with that one, Kobe. “

» Valhall said: { Mar 5, 2010 – 08:03:49 }Yep, I understand what you’re saying Nosy. And my passionate comment above wasn’t necessarily directed at you but at the whole confusilated issue of what the Anthonys are doing with their home (or I should say NOT doing) and Casey’s defense fund. I’ve read a LOT of hogwash at other sites about this.
I’m thinking they (Casey and defense) will have to reveal all funding sources AND where it all went now that they have their hands out.”

They probably have and will, but will it be released to the public? Last time it was sealed.
Does it automatically become public knowledge once she is declared indigent? I don’t know.

Ironically, if the case had gone to trial by now, the question of whether Casey could afford her attorneys might not have come up. Part of the reason she’s out of money is because the thing has been dragging on for so long. And, it’s clear the dragging out part is only because nobody on the defense team is doing anything really meaningful. NO depositions, NO forensic testing, NO nothing serious. Just crazy motions for “evidence” from Equusearch and other such nonsense.

So, IMO, if she doesn’t have the money to pay for the legal representation she WANTS, and if her attorneys don’t get paid the amount they WANT, too freaking bad. If she’s convicted because she can’t afford the defense she WANTS, too freaking bad.

Sorry for the rant–I just cannot STAND listening to whiners, and Team Anthony is the biggest bunch of whiners I’ve seen in a long time.

Amen! Curiousmom

Is it possible for the Anthonys to also have a contract with Baez, inc to pay for the defense, or maybe they added to the retainer, etc?

Like Andrea Lyon, I’m assuming that, even if Dr Lee is working pro bono, the cost of travel must still be paid for by the defendant, right? I mean , he may do something for free, but it doesn’t mean that he’d want to lose money, or spend money on the case.

What happens if these costs exceed the amount permitted? Since these people signed on, would they have to accept say coach vs first class travel, etc, or can they quit mid stream?

I’m not saying that this would happen, but if a lawyer was unhappy with the rates that the state of Florida would pay them, can they abandon ship in the middle of all this?

Okay, enough of me talking to myself : )

I feel as though I am screaming to myself. Read about the latest on Anthony Sowell and make me feel better.

Just my feebleminded opinion, but:

BRING IT ON! If Casey’s deemed indigent, she will be wearing a different “cap” — a cap on how much time and money the state is willing to spend defending her butt — which is going to be a whole lot less, and the poor defensey wency team will have to cut back — WAY back, and let’s hope to the point where at least Baez will quit, finding it not so cost effective.

Lyons will stay, pro-bono, but with a limited expense account from which she will have to operate. It won’t be enough.

In place of Baez and Baden the state will (just one scenario, Silver and correct me if I’m wrong) come two court appointed attorneys, who may be from the Public Defender’s office or two from the pool of other pro-bonos/volunteers, or two well underpaid for representation whose caseloads are probably maxed to the hilt, though such attorneys are limited as to the number of DP cases they can try in a year, the number’s a joke. It’s almost always four times more, so all of this undivided attention that Casey’s been receiving will fly right out that barred window.

Chances are the defense will have to work with what they have thus far acquired, and there will be little if any more public appearances on national talk shows. The State will NOT foot the bill for that! And not by any stretch of the imagination. If any of the defense team chooses to appear, it will have to be out of their own pockets that they do — so one has to wonder just how long Lyons is going to foot the bill herself, for all of this back and forth travel?

I’d be somewhat interested to know if the house in repo has anything to do with Casey’s acquiring public defense, as in some jurisdictions (as I understand it) one cannot be deemed indigent if there are any assets (the limit being I believe $2500). I am not saying the Anthony home is Casey’s asset. It isn’t. But by God you’d best believe that if the house was available to Mommy and Daddy and they didn’t use it to further her defense they would have sheer hell to pay, as she made clear in one of her jailhouse tapes, indicating that George and Cindy had the means to acquire the 6 figure bail, and how so if not the house? Perhaps they are more willing to let the house go so they don’t have to deal with Casey when she is resorted to state representation? Could she have that much control? Could they be that beholden?

As for all who feel sorry for the state, well, what’s one more so many thousands in the bucket? Our tax dollars pay for it all, one way or another, don’t they? The prosecution. The defense. The bench. Right down to the cops who made the arrest. As far as I know, Florida isn’t completely federally funded, though I could be wrong on that. The PD’s office has been so financially taxed, the past few years, that the Feds could have stepped in to assist. It’s been a while since such a subject has come up. Last I heard, though, the amount allowed the defense in a DP case was around $300,000. They’d eat that up in no time, and for justice for Caylee, I’d consider it a small amount to pay, divided by so many millions of tax payers. I then gladly and hopefully chip in my two cents.

Willow

WSH

LOL … Haven’t you noticed? I talk to myself all the time!

WSH, keep talking I am listening ha. Carry on!

Humm … do you suppose if Val added voice to the blog, we’d all be talking at once?

Okay…one or two more:

Was Baden pro bono too? No info that she was paid anything.

How can you quit if you offered to get paid nothing in the first place?

It could be an out for Baez, but not Lyon. I would think?

WSH,

Lyons is in it for the long haul. She’ll dip into her own pocket.

WSH,

I don’t believe that Baez can quit. He has an obligation to finish what he started, I believe. I do believe though that he will find the means, if say through some sort of conflict.

lol WSH I feel your pain.

One thing about the experts being paid. I remember one of them, the forensics woman, Kathy? something, was asked questions in the beginning and she seemed to be hedging about payment. She finally said she was under agreement not to discuss whether she was being paid or not and how much.

I took away from that she and others WERE being paid. Now that was a long time ago so things have certainly (probably) changed. But that was my take on it.

Waiting for Maura-pedia to shoot me down in 3… 2… 1… j/k I heart Maura.

And Willow – that’s FUNNY about voice on this blog. I am SURE we’d be a talking blog trainwreck. tee hee.

Can anyone explain what Val did? Before, I was able to see comments that I hadn’t read to the left. Now, those are all of her posts. I noticed to the right, there is an “unread comments” section, but on my screen there is nothing underneath and nothing to click on. When I hit the banner it no longer refreshes comments for me.

Did this change for anyone else?

WSH,

Whoa! You’ve got me stumped, as I don’t see an “unread comments” section at all. I do see a search box that I have never noticed before. She must be doing something …

Val?

WSH,

Okay, I’ve the unread comments box and there’s nothing beneath it and nothing happens when you click on it.

I absolutey know that Casey is an adult & therefore, her parents are not responsible for paying a dime for her defense. What I find so maddening is that, more than likely, the taxpayers will foot the bill for Casey’s defense, while Cindy & George make out like bandits because Casey has probably signed over to them all her rights for book or movie deals. We know that the baby was only missing a couple of months before Cindy had Caylee’s name trademarked. I just wish the state had some recourse to go after the Anthonys.

Curiousmom said: { Mar 6, 2010 – 10:03:01 } Ironically, if the case had gone to trial by now, the question of whether Casey could afford her attorneys might not have come up. Part of the reason she’s out of money is because the thing has been dragging on for so long. And, it’s clear the dragging out part is only because nobody on the defense team is doing anything really meaningful. NO depositions, NO forensic testing, NO nothing serious. Just crazy motions for “evidence” from Equusearch and other such nonsense.

*****

It’s not true that the defense has conducted NO depositions and NO forensic testing. ASA Linda Drane-Burdick’s complaint at a December 2009 hearing was that Baez was not moving quickly enough on the depositions of state witnesses that he planned to depose or on independent review and testing of physical evidence that he planned to conduct. She did not claim he had done nothing. Baez countered that the defense had not yet received all the forensic reports from the state (which was true). Also, Drane-Burdick was clear that the state still had a lot of work to do and realistically could not be ready for a summer 2010 trial.

I am guessing the defense has to notify the SAO when they are deposing a state witness, but the defense is not required to tell the SAO when they are deposing a defense witness. And we do know, from media reports, that the defense has deposed some state witnesses.
In October 2008, Baez began depose witnesses beginning with Tony Lazzaro, Catherine Sanchez, Simon Burch, Nicole Lett, and Gary Ridgeway.

In March 2009, Deputy Sheriff Richard Cain and Jail Sergeant Dennis Moonsammy were deposed.

In April 2009, Baez continued his lengthy deposition of Richard Cain and also deposed KioMarie Cruz, Lt. Billy Richardson, Lt. Tammy Uncer, Officer Marlene Baker, Jim Hoover, Alex Roberts, Baez continued his deposition of Deputy Richard Cain, Awilda McBryde, and Jerold White.

In May 2009, Baez continued his deposition of Tammy Uncer and deposed Phillip Graves, William Procknow, Edward Turso, and Leonard Turtora, and Adriana Acevedo.

In June 2009, Baez continued his deposition of Adriana Acevedo.

In November 2009, Baez deposed Roy Kronk.

Those are the ones we know about from the local media. There may have been others that were not deemed important enough for a news report.

As for forensic testing, Baez did DNA test items removed from the Anthony house, Dr. Lee looked at the car (once), Dr. Spitz autopsied the remains in January 2009, and I assume Dr. Reichs (forensic anthropologist) also flew in to examine Caylee’s remains. The computer hard drives were sent to Larry Daniel (forensic computer), crime scene photos were sent to appropriate defense forensic experts (probably Henry Lee, Kathy Reichs, Timothy Huntington, and Scott Fairgrieve). I don’t know if the defense has hired a forensic botanist, but I can’t imagine they have not done so. The defense is not required to tell the state the names of their forensic experts unless they plan to call those witnesses at trial. We know the people I mentioned because they were on the defense’s November 2008 witness list or because they were named by the defense at a December 12, 2008 hearing. I would guess Linda Kenney-Baden and Lawrence Kobilinsky have been reviewing the FBI evidence reports.

..i’m sure this has been asked and answered, but—– could someone tell me ..what is the “A” in D&A investigations?

..and, a ‘people search’ brings up dominic anthony casey—-is his middle name seriously anthony ?? the similarity in names in this case !

http://tinyurl.com/y9ewb8z

L. Smith said: { Mar 6, 2010 – 11:03:28 }

We know that the baby was only missing a couple of months before Cindy had Caylee’s name trademarked.

*****

I don’t know that because even though that claim is repeated often, no one has ever shown proof of it.

They registered a trust fund with SunTrust bank in July 2008 (it was shut down in September), and they registered the Caylee Marie Anthony Foundation (still running).

That’s all I know.

Maura,

Is that true that the defense doesn’t have to depose all of the people on the Prosecution witness list?
Also, does JB have to open his books to show what he has made with the money he has already spent IF KC is declared indigent?
Thanks a lot for your insight, you are great Maura!!!!

Val,

I am sure you have seen this video with the “Three Stooges” (on October 16, 2009) LKB, JB and TM, can I call them Three Stooges??? I hope so… if you did see the video, what do you think LKB was talking about when she stated that the duct tape was contaminated?

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=5388890n&tag=mncol;lst;1

Just thinking…

Chances are Cindy and George are not losing their assets so CASEY can be declared indigent, as their net worth should not affect Casey’s ability to pay…

BUT, how are they going to pay for THEIR defense when they start facing their own criminal charges??? Public defender? Is Conway looking for some state funding, like Baez. If they can’t get any other work (and who would hire EITHER of those clowns?) they will just suck the rear tit of the state of Florida while keeping their faces in the spotlight as long as they can.

Will this be one last slap in the face of the public who have come to despise both Casey and Cindy Anthony?

Oh well, maybe they will call crawl back under their rocks when this is all over. UGH.

call crawl? that’s a new term – but I really meant to say ALL crawl. Frustration makes the fingers type strange things!

Don’t feel bad, I just read my last post and was appalled, but people have already accepted my condition (idiot), so I will try not to get crazy (er) about it. lol

Did I miss any discussion on the defense needing money? Especially the part about “investigating thousands of tips” that Liz Brown mentioned? Why on earth should the taxpayers pay for that? The other legal expenses I can understand. Anyway, if I missed it, could someone direct me to where that discussion was?
Thanks tons.

WSH …

Gawd! If you’re an idiot — than there’s no word for me! I’m about 15 rungs beneath you on the ladder of measurable intelligence. :!:

When Cindy was deposed for the ZFG civil suit, she advised under oath that she and George have not claimed Casey since she was 18 years old.

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/5345644/Casey-Anthony-Cindy-Anthony-deposition-in-the-ZFG-civil-case

Page 7 – 8:

Q Now, do you or your husband claim Casey, your daughter, as a dependent on your taxes?
A No. I haven’t claimed Casey since she was 18 years old.
Q So it is fair to say she paid her own taxes or should have paid her own taxes?
A Yes.
Q Did you ever see any documents coming in like a W-2 to the house?
A Yes, I have seen a W-2 form
Q So back in the 2004 time period, are you saying you saw a W-2 come in?
A Yes, I did.
Q How about in 2005?
A I don’t recall.
Q Don’t recall seeing it. And how about going forward from there 2006, 2007?
A No
Q And then 2008?
A The only reason is because that was her first W-2 and I actually helped her with her taxes. I did not need to help her after that year, so that’s why I would not have had a reason to look at her.
Q But on that point, after 2005, did you ever see her doing her taxes?
A No

Maura,

I can assure you the Caylee Marie Anthony is neither trademarked, copyrighted nor registered. Trademarks are for intellectual property, goods and services and literary works etc.

Example: If Caylee Marie Anthony was trademarked or copyrighted, everyone with that name in the country could be enjoined by the Anthonys in a suit to have them change their name or pay for the use of it. Not happening.

You can search for her name which I have and none show up.

Type Caylee Marie Anthony in the search box in the link below, their is no record found.

http://search.usa.gov/search?vroject=firstgov&form=advanced-firstgov&v:frame=form&affiliate=uspto.gov

The link below defines a Copyright in section 102

http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap1.html#102

Maura,

I can assure you that the name Caylee Marie Anthony is neither Trademarked nor Copyrighted

According to the USPTO, a search for her comes up no record found.

The reason is that you cannot Trademark or Copyright your name. If you could, everyone with the same name would have to quit using it or pay a royalty for the use of it. You see folks on the Internet Blogs with a TM or © on their screen names. Those are false representations. Trademarks and Copyrights are for intellectual property not individual names.

Type in Caylee Marie Anthony in the search box in the link below. As I say, there will be no record found.

http://search.usa.gov/search?vroject=firstgov&form=advanced-firstgov&v:frame=form&affiliate=uspto.gov

Random thought:

Has anyone else noticed how much Nicole Ganguzza fits KC’s description of ZFG, right down to being a UCF student and frequenting JBP?

Like I said: random thought, but…

random question:

..ummmm..who is nicole ganguzza?

Nicole Ganguzza was a jogger who was raped and murdered in Jay Blanchard Park. She was a 26-year old newlywed. Her body was discovered on June 11, 2008. Her story was all over local news at the time, and Cindy and Casey even discuss it briefly in one of the jail visits, IIRC.

..ok, thanks kerflunkled..

..i had heard her talk about the jogger, didn’t know the name.

..i remember her saying ” my mom didn’t even want me jogging off chicksaw after that…………(or whatever… so, when i heard that, she wasn’t talking TO her mom.

..i think it was perhaps to appy wells ( universal interview ) or LE ( oct. 14 ).

..excellent point though—-that “tiny kernel of truth in what kc says”—–i can see her going with a description that’s fresh in her mind.

Yep, Ellejay, you’re correct. That WAS when she made that reference. Thanks for helping me out on that one! But, you get my drift. I think that Nicole was fresh in her mind and she used what she could remember from that missing person’s description to provide one for the imagi-nanny.

Also, there are images online that depict Nicole swimming in a bikini and one with her holding a small (idk breed) dog.

» No Nic said: { Mar 6, 2010 – 10:03:56 }
[Unread Comment]

Maura,

I can assure you that the name Caylee Marie Anthony is neither Trademarked nor Copyrighted

According to the USPTO, a search for her comes up no record found.

**************************************

Hi No Nic!

I was searching for the same info yesterday too! The ONLY Caylee related item that I could find, was a copy right for the Caylee song written for the memorial.

Maybe what some are remembering is the application for Fictitious Name when Cindy was establishing the Foundation?

Here are two blog post’s related to that:

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2008/10/18/so-why-is-cindy-anthony-looking-to-start-a-foundation-for-caylee-marie-anthony-registration-of-fictitious-name/

And…

http://itsamysterytome.wordpress.com/2008/10/19/cindy-anthony-the-caylee-marie-anthony-foundation-and-a-possible-reason-for-it/

There’s several things you can’t copyright. Included in that list is your name and a title to a work. For instance, Barbara Streisand cannot copyright “The Way we Were”. So if I want to write a song, a book or a blog article entitled “The Way we Were”, I’m free to do so. Another thing that can’t be copyrighted is what is considered to have become public domain. So for instance, I can copyright “thehinkymeter.com”, but I can’t copyright “the hinky meter” and try to get everybody who ever talks about their hinky meter going off to stop – because that term has been part of public domain long before my blog.

§ 102. Subject matter of copyright: In general28
(a) Copyright protection subsists, in accordance with this title, in original works of authorship fixed in any tangible medium of expression, now known or later developed, from which they can be perceived, reproduced, or otherwise communicated, either directly or with the aid of a machine or device. Works of authorship include the following categories:

(1) literary works;

(2) musical works, including any accompanying words;

(3) dramatic works, including any accompanying music;

(4) pantomimes and choreographic works;

(5) pictorial, graphic, and sculptural works;

(6) motion pictures and other audiovisual works;

(7) sound recordings; and

(8) architectural works.

(b) In no case does copyright protection for an original work of authorship extend to any idea, procedure, process, system, method of operation, concept, principle, or discovery, regardless of the form in which it is described, explained, illustrated, or embodied in such work.

More at this site:

http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap1.html#102

» S Davidson said: { Mar 5, 2010 – 07:03:50 }

To S Davidson—My heart goes out to you. What a horrific crime you had to endure.
I hope you are still getting any therapeutic help that you need. Stay strong and thank you for sharing your story.

This reminds me of an old saying that I very frequently remind myself of: no one knows what anyone elses life journey has been like………unless you walk a mile in their shoes!!!

kb said: { Mar 7, 2010 – 09:03:25 } » S Davidson said: { Mar 5, 2010 – 07:03:50 }

To S Davidson—My heart goes out to you. What a horrific crime you had to endure.
I hope you are still getting any therapeutic help that you need. Stay strong and thank you for sharing your story.

This reminds me of an old saying that I very frequently remind myself of: no one knows what anyone elses life journey has been like………unless you walk a mile in their shoes!!!

Thanks Kb, I share my story not for sympathy but to inform that bad things can happen to good people as well as the aftermath of a crime victims plight. Thrust into something through no fault of your own and to continue living a normal life in the aftermath takes some work. I am still in therapy! During this crime committed against me I too was duct taped,having the tape placed over my eyes and in my hair one full circle and over my mouth/nose around into my hair and around my wrists and ankles. It was hard for me to breathe. When the autopsy results came out that Caylee’s face had the 3 pieces of duct tape, it motivated me to share my story to help in Justice for Caylee. Two pieces of tape were plenty to prevent Caylee from breathing. The third piece was used to either make a statement or to cover her whole face so that the perp could disassociate with Caylee, or stop fluids from leaking. I can not commit to which opinion I believe the third piece of duct tape was used for. Thanks for the kind words but I am fine. With people like Val, Jwg, Maura, WSH,Slvr, and the rest we can only hope to find Justice for Caylee.

To Maura: thanks for clarifying the deposition issue. I had forgotten about the depos that the defense has done, and you are correct.

I still stand behind my assertion that part of the reason Casey’s defense team is running out of money is because they are dragging this thing on for so long.

In fact, in hindsight, it seems that Casey’s best chance at having gotten as minimal time in jail as possible would have been to push for a trial very, very quickly. The SA would have had to prove their case without Caylee’s body. Casey might have been able to get away with less than murder. There would have been a little “wiggle room” for her in her story.

Once Caylee’s body was found, it changed the whole situation. Until that point, there was evidence of a dead body in Casey’s car, but no evidence of how death had occurred.

Duct tape on a skull, over the nose and mouth, pretty much precludes an accidental death scenario. Plus, in all this time, there have been additional pieces of information found (for example, the duct tape on the Find Caylee posters) that point back to Casey.

Anyway…..Maura, again, thank you for the information. You always help to keep things in perspective!

New Jersey, please don’t forget to enter George into the contest of who to hate most. Cindy gets some points off in my book because she’s only behaving the way she always has and sees herself as supportive and loving. She couldn’t stop being Cindy if she tried. She is incapable of shutting her mouth and yet, she knows people expect words to come out so she just keeps splatting out the verbal diarrhea that comes from conniving thoughts that never give her brain a rest. Circling and splatting…splatting and circling like a falcon with the GI Joes. She reminds me of the story of the boy who has to keep plugging up the new leaks in the dike. George knows better and is the biggest traitor to Caylee of all IMO. He stated he couldn’t keep going on with things and then he did anyway. The day he called LE “fu**ing flunkies” was the day I wanted most badly to slap his clonic-tonic, monkey lip-pursing face. How DARE he. People keep waiting for him to “come around” and “do the right thing” and I’m not waiting for him to do anything other than what he has been doing almost all along. He WAS coming around and he WAS doing the right thing and admitted his daughter might be a…a…Ahhhh, but THEN he got a taste of the money and he liked it and he will stay in the camp he chose with the promise of more money. Cindy? I expect nothing from her, other than what we’ve seen, and she won’t disappoint us. I bet she is just a joy to live with these days but George will hang on (especially now that he has read how Cindy wouldn’t divorce him because she didn’t want him to get anything out of her.) He’ll never let go now with the promise of such a big pay off when this is all over.
“We’re in this together all the way, right Baby?”
Casey?
“What a fu**ing waste.”
Lee? I hope he’s not still stuck in “giggle mode” these days. He reminds me of “Tickle Me Elmo” with tube socks. After all this time, I still can’t figure out who I hate the most so I’ve just decided to let my hate flow freely over them all. The whole family is a disgusting cesspool of deception…and one little girl once in the middle of it all is now gone forever.
As usual, JMO.
(And I do believe that Cindy even convinced George to make a little trip to St Augustines for dramatic effect/”suicide attempt.” This might be cruel on my part but, when people do nothing but cover up and lie…what else can they expect some people to believe?)
JMO.

Forgive me if this has already been mentioned ….lots of detail$ that I haven’t seen before:

“Anthony has already paid Baez and death penalty expert Andrea Lyon $111,954, but Baez said that is not enough to give Anthony the defense she needs, and taxpayers should make up the difference. Nearly $90,000 of the amount was used for Baez’s fees, the remainder covered Lyon’s costs. She is working on the case for free.

Baez said Anthony was willing to pay for her defense until the state put the death penalty back on the table, making her unable to cover the expense.

The motion asks the state to cover the cost of depositions, transcripts, investigators, legal research, expert witness fees, medical or mental examinations, travel expenses and other costs the defense has or will incur.

Legal experts said defending a complex death penalty murder case like Anthony’s can easily run into the hundreds of thousands of dollars, especially when potential witnesses and experts are dispersed around the country.

Baez estimated the total cost of defending Anthony will amount to hundreds of thousands of dollars.

If Strickland signs the order, Florida taxpayers will pick up the bill for the defense costs, but not the defense fees.

The state has more than $14 million set aside this year to pay for indigent criminal defense.

The question of how Anthony will be able to pay for her defense has prompted a great deal of speculation about possible movie deals and book rights. It is not known how she paid the more than $100,000 that has already been paid to the defense.”

She sold all her photos of Caylee to pay Baez his blood money. Perhaps that is why there has been a mass exodus on the defense team of late? Not that they don’t all want a moment in the limelight, but if they stay they will be working for FREE.

..knowing what we know NOW vs. then—–re-reading transcripts, text messages, etc—-every single one of them has contradictions of some sort..

two examples: ( in one texting spree):

..when kc was texting iassen on june 13th/08.
..( this entire exchange takes place in 4 minutes of the texting , from 11:26-11:30 a.m.)

..kc: (11:26 a.m.): i’m tired. just haven’t been sleeping well. can’t wait to get into my own place.

..dk(iassen) : when is this happening ?

..kc: probably within the next week.

..dk: oh true, you and tony ?

..kc: just me and the kid. .possibly in winter park villas.off of semoran, near university. i’ve looked a lot of places. i’m also looking near where my parents live, it just depends.

..dk: is it an apartment?
..kc 11:28 ) yeah.

( so—–on june 13th—– she’s talking to iassen about her and caylee getting an apt.——-while also stringing amy along about getting a house ( possibly hopespring drive).
( because iassen belongs to her original group of (x) friends—and amy is in the new group of (x) friends ).

………………..zanny contradiction: in the same text spree.

dk: ( 11:29): so what do u do when you work, with the kid that is ?

kc: i have a nanny. i love her.

dk: how much do they charge?

kc: we’ve been friends for OVER SIX YEARS, definitely someone i trust. i pay her a lot more than most nanny’s make. it’s worth it though.

dk: yeah, i understand. where does tony live?

kc 11:30 ) she’s a friend, between myself and one of my co-workers, it’s her main source of income.

………….therefore——in a mere 4 MINUTES of one text session,6/13/08, let’s count the contradictions:

—–she tells dk that she and “the kid” are getting an apt. soon——–while at the same time she is telling amy that they’re getting a house together, real soon.

—–she tells dk that she has known zanny for over 6 years—(2002)—–she tells LE that she met zanny while pregnant,( late 04–early 05) .

—–she ( or perhaps cindy) says that zanny possibly works for free!( and supplies clothes, a carseat, toys, food, diapers!) ( b/c caylee is delightful, and zanny’s father has money or some such BS) —-kc tells dk that not only is zanny paid—she pays her MORE than most nanny’s.

…..i used to think that her Xfriends would be feeling so USED by kc—–i hope that now, they high 5 every time they hear or read anything that tightens the noose a little more.
.. as it is, it’s going to take time for any of them to really trust again, and that to me is very sad.

Renee – FL said: { Mar 7, 2010 – 08:03:05
…………She sold all her photos of Caylee to pay Baez his blood money. Perhaps that is why there has been a mass exodus on the defense team of late? Not that they don’t all want a moment in the limelight, but if they stay they will be working for FREE.
_______________________________________________________________

..yes, it’s been stated that the state will pick up the cost of depos, experts etc, but not the defense attorney (s ) fees.

..prior to this case, whoever heard of jose baez ?? andrea lyon ?? this is far more than a “moment” for them——-they are definitely not working for “free”.

..what’s the expression——-there is no such thing as bad publicity?

..i was talking to my sister this weekend—–who UNbelievably didn’t know casey anthony from marc anthony! ( come on up to northern canada jose—-for your change in venue).

..long story short—-when i briefed her on kc—she said kc reminded her of a friend we knew from school—–youngest in the family ( spoiled brat) and then 11 years later, along came a surprise baby sister. she RESENTED “molly” to no end! she HATED having to babysit her, yet would fawn all over her out in public.

..is this what kc did? while alone with caylee—–put her in a bedroom, shut the door/text/talk/ and crank up the music? to make her go away?——-and then , in public, “awwwwww—-isn’t she adorable—–just like me!! ” , as an extension of herself?

I’m dense.

So it takes me a while to figure things out.

But, I eventually do.

Sometimes.

KC’s Docket… does it mean that more evidences were turned over to the defense??? We will find out soon, I guess… somebody from the Media got some docs this morning already, I hope it is Kathi Belich.

http://myclerk.myorangeclerk.com/CaseDetail.aspx?CaseID=6236234
02/26/2010 Notice of Provision of Supplemental Discovery
02/26/2010 Notice
of Additional Documents in the Possession of Texas Equusearch
03/02/2010 Notice of Taking Deposition Upon Oral Examination
03/05/2010 Correspondence
from James McIntyre
03/05/2010 Motion
for Determination of Indigency for Costs w/ attachments of Affidavit of Insolvency
03/05/2010 Notice of Provision of Supplemental Discovery

[color=darkred][b]Date Set For Casey Anthony Murder Trial[/color]
Posted: 11:03 am EST March 8,2010[/b]

http://www.wftv.com/news/22774311/detail.html

ORANGE COUNTY, Fla. — A trial date was set in the case against Casey Anthony Monday. In an order signed by Judge Strickland, Casey’s trial has been set for May 9, 2011.
Casey Anthony is accused of murdering her daughter, Caylee Marie Anthony.
No other details are available at this time.
WFTV.com will update the story as it develops.

Silver,

The trial date was set, here is the order if you would like to read, of course:

http://www.wftv.com/pdf/22774322/detail.html

2011! ^&*-($#! Arrgh.

Steffiee said: { Mar 8, 2010 – 10:03:53 }

Steffie, It could be worse, maybe not!!! LOL

Anyone think it will go to trial? I think there will be a plea. JMO

A Scheduling Order issued by the Court is to keep both sides on track and in contempt if the deadlines are missed.

It is a Defense tactic to drag for time – witnesses become forgetful or become “unavailable” for whatever reasons over time. Speedy trial is usually waived in hopes that witnesses and evidence will go stale.

Anthony depositions by the defense COULD have begun months ago. Costs include the steno or court reporter; witness fees; sometimes a fee to use a room or suite; and the cost of the transcript is by the page – in a case like this $3.50 pp x 500-1,000 pages each is a lowball estimate.

J Baez could have come up with a retainer agreement asking for $200k. Funding that agreement would be a different document either assigning licensing rights and fees to him OR appointing him as Casey’s fiduciary in the deal — are just 2 possibilities. I recall Judge Strickland was very interested in how that was set up in the beginning. It appears to me that JB has strategically planned (I hate to say budgeted) HIS cut and and projected when that will be depleted. He is not about to spend his fee money on paying the costs of this defense and he NEVER intended to do so. He may not be able to compose a decent Motion – either substitively or grammatically, but he knows his way around a fee agreement.

Chat Lunatique said: { Mar 8, 2010 – 11:03:19 }

Well, in my layperson opinion I would say that he got his money and now he is asking for us “taxpayers” to pay for what it would be his responsibility to have anticipated further expenses in the case and planned better right??? I would say what a smarty pants he is, if he indeed did this. 8O
Bad bad counseling!!!!

Three years to get to a trial for the murder of a beautiful baby. That’s just crazy.

ellejay, thanks for the Casey/Iassen dialogue. I love it when her (or her family’s) lies are laid out like that for everyone to see. If it wasn’t so sad, it would be downright comical.

let us not forget her civil trial starts in june!

JB’s Motion for Indigency:

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/28249113/Casey-Motion-for-Indigency-03052010

James L McIntyre’s correspondence:

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/28245881/James-L-McIntyre-Correspondence-03052010

FRG..more to the docket:

03/05/2010—Notice of Provision of Supplemental Discovery

03/08/2010—-Motion—for Determination of Indigency for Costs (re-faxed due to pages missing from 3/5/10 packet)

03/08/2010—-Affidavit of Insolvency/Indigency

03/08/2010—-Affidavit of Attorney’s Fees—Indigent for Costs re: Andrea Lyon

03/08/2010—-Affidavit of Attorney’s Fees—Indigent for Costs re: Jose Baez

Financial Information
Total Financial Assessment—7,520.57
Total Payments and Credits—7,520.57

03/08/2010—Transaction Assessment—14.99

03/08/2010—Counter Payment—Receipt # CR-2010-16559—MEDIA—(14.99)

03/08/2010—Transaction Assessment—8.00

03/08/2010—Counter Payment—Receipt # CR-2010-16670—MEDIA—(8.00)

Silver,

At the conflict of interests hearing on March 25, 2009, on youtube part 4, at approximately 5:28 minutes, JS is asking JB about the retainer agreement and JB says KC has 2 agreements one with him and another with co-counsel LKB, what does it really mean? Is LKB working pro-bono as well or not? Thanks a lot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6xwashAoaI

» FRG said: { Mar 8, 2010 – 01:03:57 } JB’s Motion for Indigency:

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/28249113/Casey-Motion-for-Indigency-03052010

James L McIntyre’s correspondence:

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/28245881/James-L-McIntyre-Correspondence-03052010

Thanks for the links! especially James L McIntyre’s correspondence specifically that last line:

“aandjmac@mchsi.com
I am the J in the e-mail address”

LOL! Priceless…I wonder who is the A?

Got from WFTV today:

“Prosecutors released two CDs of evidence to Casey’s defense team, but they have not been made public. One includes about 300 pages of documents. The other is related to Joy Wray, a Seminole County woman who claimed to know information about the case.”

***
Oooooh, a Joy Wray doc dump. Hope we get to see it soon. Get your tickets, get your tickets… we have peanuts… we have popcorn… we have clowns, elephants, and pretty ladies, too…

Oh gosh – just saw that – “I am the J” – WOW. 8O

ellejay –

I agree with you that Casey told different stories to different people (Caylee’s daddy, Zanny’s payment or non-payment, etc.), but that IM exchange between Casey and Iassen took place on July 13, not June 13. She had told Amy she wasn’t getting the house two weeks earlier.

She did tailor her stories to her audience (she told Cindy Caylee was with Zani, and she told Ryan Caylee was with Cindy, etc.). She had been telling all her new friends that Zani was a well-paid nanny (IIRC, she told Maria Kissh she paid Zani $400 per week). She wouldn’t have been able to get away with that story with her family because they knew she was stealing to pay for basics like her phone bill and gasoline.

From the Orlando Sentinal
WKMG’s Mike DeForest reported on the defense team’s motions, filed today, to keep certain things out of the trial: Cindy Anthony’s 911 call, other statements made by George and Cindy Anthony, and photographs of Casey Anthony partying. “The defense is trying to limit the number of bad things that the jury could hear about Casey Anthony,” DeForest said.

I wonder if they would like the car to be demolished also and the duct tape to disappear. Oh, yes, I forgot junk science.

I certainly do not think that Cindy’s call or the statements that they made either by Cindy & George or detectives or bounty hunters should be elimated from being presented in court.

Now, apparently, if this motion is not granted, Casey’s defense will have a hearing on each and everyone of these pieces. Does it sound like they are trying to save money.
NOT! Anyone….

Sorry, Siver or Maura could you give us your opinion on this? Greatly appreciated.

Er, per the McIntyre correspondence:

This is a joke, right?

I’m sure this is just the tip of the motion iceberg. They’ve got to get those jailhouse tapes excluded too (fat chance). All the jury has to hear is “All they care about is Caylee, that’s all they care about.” And “Calling you guys a waste, a huge waste… gimme Tony’s number… gimme Tony’s number…. etc. and they will know what they’re dealing with. Those tapes, every single one of them, are deadly to her case. No way Baez and Lyon aren’t going to fight their admission tooth and nail.

Joan,

Maybe they’re just buying time while Lyons stands over Casey with a pair of pliers, threatening to pull all of her teeth if she doesn’t plead out?

Just kidding.

The motions will be heard, but who’s to say that Strickland won’t address them all, and all at once, so as to save the court time, as well as the expense? Multiple motions have been addressed before, and I would suppose all of these will be as well, which should make for one interesting day in court for we Hinksters and Hinkettes.

Suggestion:

when typing Andrea Lyon’s name, stop, take a look, and then go remove the “s” because her name is LYON, not LYONS. Not sure why everyone wants to make her plural – yukky…One of her is enough!! LOL (Sorry, just haveing a little nuerotic moment)

OOPS, Joan, sorry — I forgot, and also would like Maura’s or Silver’s take on all of this but, IMHO:

The photographs will stay, as they attest to the fact that Casey wasn’t at all concerned about the whereabouts of her child, as well as they speak volumes as to whether she was that “Mother of the Year” Cindy repeatedly said that she (Casey) was. But of course, Cindy was probably offering her opinion of herself. Also, and though this may seem far fetched, but the photographs may also (imo) speak of motive, which will go hand in hand with premeditation.

Am I running to far off with the ball, Maura? Silver? Val?

The derogatory statements made by such as Padilla will stay, as they speak volumes regarding Casey’s demeanor after the fact. And this again goes back to, did she care about her child? Did she show any sorrow? Any anxiety? Any emotion that would be considered “normal and expected” under the circumstances? She did not, and the implications with that are huge, and the impact it will have on the jury, substantial.

These are just my opinions, of course, as I consider all of this evidence and necessary to prove motive, premeditation, event and cover-up, though none of it, and in my opinion again, holds a candle to:

1. Not reported missing for 31 days.
2. No attempt made within those 31 days to locate her daughter.
3. Partying while her daughter was missing.
4. Her own admission that the car reeked of decomp — so she blamed it on squirrels. She still said it, and blamed the dead squirrel event on her father who hadn’t even driven her car to run over squirrels, if memory serves me right. And it doesn’t always.
5. The abandoned car itself.
6. The evidence of decomposition.
7. The hair bearing a death band — along with hair that did not, which would indicate to me, though it hasn’t been addressed, that it’s a comparative, as well as it may indicate that Caylee was in the trunk before she was dead as well as after the fact, for all of the hairs that were found.
8. The duct tape, and what evidences might still be presented regarding the heart shaped sticker that was applied to the tape, however destroyed, and which matched stickers found in the home, as did the Pooh blanket, which was part of a set.

The list just goes on and on and on.

It would be good though to hear from Silver or Maura.

Willow

http://www.wftv.com/pdf/22779833/detail.html
..i find it interesting in this application for attorneys fees for indigent status, that casey has filled in for baez.

..she states that she’s paid him $89,454,83 to date…and that:

“No other compensation, things of value, or funds have been paid or are anticipated to be paid in the future to the attorney in this case from any other person or source.”

..so, even if there IS big money “down the road”———–baez will not get a penny more ?

..legally speaking…….i wonder if it matters that on the affadavit for indigent status, where casey states :

No other compensation, things of value, or funds have been paid or are anticipated to be paid in the future to the attorney in this case from any other person or source.”

..where it calls for her signature, she merely initials it.

..whereas on her sworn statement to LE the night of july 15,when it calls for her signature, she signs her full name.

..isn’t your “signature” your signature, i didn’t think you could change it up (?)

( and reading her 4 page sworn stmt.—–wow! her ‘printing’ is very hard to read! )

also, in the new motion:

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/28317845/03082010-Omnibus-Motion-to-Exclude-Hearsay-Gossip-and-Innuendo

regarding the 911 call : the motion reads:

——”she ( cindy ) brought up the fact that caylee had been missing for a month and that kc wasn’t telling anyone where her daughter is.this call was not made when the child was first missing, but 31 days later, meaning it was not new information.”

….?????????????????

..HOW was cindy to report her “missing” PRIOR to knowing that she was for a fact missing ?
..i believe that cindy was getting increasingly agitated , getting the non stop run-around from kc, ( hind sight) she SHOULD have demanded! that kc bring caylee over , even for a visit-but she kept believing in tomorrow——-and tomorrow never came.

..even though cindy is NOW the head cheerleader for “team kc”——at the time of the 911 call—–the fact that caylee was totally “missing”, WAS “new information”.

..i recall andrea lyin’ saying earlier ( her video seminar?) —-file motion after motion after motion……….( and the defense has DONE so! most of them flawed, or thrown out, or just plain laughed at!—-but file them, they have….)

..after reading this latest one——i’m thrilled that judgeS has also set not only a trial date——but a trial schedule—-so the defense can knock it off with the ridiculous motions–( sigh of relief from andrea’s law students that have apparently had homework assignments writing them)—and be forced to actually work ON the case! within a certain timeline……..perfect.

http://www.wftv.com/pdf/22774322/detail.html

http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/Stories/Local/0308%20Casey%20Case%20Compiled%20Hearsay%20Statements.pdf

..a chart put up at cfnews of the “hearsay” statements.
..note–it was sideways for me—-just right click —-and hit “rotate clockwise”.

……this probably belongs over here in “misc”..

..did jose put this chart together ??? and is he seriously bringing it before a respected Judge ???

Could someone (Silver?) clear up some of the claims on the hearsay document? Such as, how does Debbie Barnett, (or is it Bennett,) saying that Cindy told her that KC worked at Sports Authority equal “characterization that KC is a liar?” Or Lee stating that Brandon Snow’s parents were giving a false impression of BS and KC’s relationship equating to “characterizations of Anthony family relationships?”
I don’t need an in-depth analysis–it’s a long document–but some of these objections don’t make sense. Does the defense expect the jury to go on KC’s word alone? Is this SOP? What are the grounds to attack Roy Kronk’s tip statements? Or us that an attack on Richard Cain?
I understand that some of it is hearsay and characterization, but are they planning on objecting to everyone who takes the stand?

» Kerflunkled said: { Mar 9, 2010 – 01:03:51
Could someone (Silver?) clear up some of the claims on the hearsay document?
———————I understand that some of it is hearsay and characterization, but are they planning on objecting to everyone who takes the stand?

..what i don’t understand—–it’s like they’re objecting PRIOR to trial—–motions, motions, asking for this and that to be excluded.

..i admit, 1st time for me—-seeing ACTUAL trial motions etc…( is it like this in all trials? ) i always thought—it’s said ON the stand—-then the lawyer jumps up with “Objection!”

..how can baez ask for testimony from friends be not allowed——if they painted her as a liar etc—–she IS a liar etc—-aren’t they supposed to tell the truth on the stand ?

..this latest motion——–the worst one yet ( andrea lyon’s students should all get a “F” for that assignment.)

good grief——-reading further into jose’s “hearsay chart”——-which he intends to take to the judge line by line……..

..ok, we have–GEORGE—said to—simon, ” we’ll probably get divorced over this”.

..or many cases of: (shock) CINDY said, to: so and so…

..but——–there are MANY instances of:
“people” said to……or, “someone” said” to, or, “some people said” to, or” someone else said” to…….

..what ???

..can you imagine,IN court, asking the Judge to not allow what “someone else” said to debbie bennet? for example?

..Judge” who do you mean, by “someone else”??
..baez” ummm, errr, someone other THAN debbie bennet judge…”( b/c we all know baez lacks the professionalism to say “your honour”

..it’s so ridiculous, thankfully the Judge has now set a trial schedule——-the defense is forced to move on and get to actually defending the case..on time.

Memorandum and Motion in Limine:
http://www.docstoc.com/docs/28326950/03082010-Memorandum-Supporting-Party-Picture-Motion
http://www.docstoc.com/docs/28326953/03082010-Casey-Motion-To-Exclude-Irrelevant-Evidence-of-Party-Pictures

FRG – thanks for the links. I can actually see the judge not admitting the pictures from before Caylee was missing, but I would think the ones after would be admitted. jmo

As St. Patrick’s Day is almost upon us, I thought I would submit a limerick to the board:

The Blight

There once was a girl full of spite
Who was determined to do not right
She killed her daughter Caylee
And started a missing Nanny melee
So she could dance and party all night

Now what is plainly in sight
Is this girl, she carries The Blight
Everyone she meets gets trouble
Poor Caylee got it double
Through examples you’ll see I’m quite right

The lazy girl was allergic to work
Stole money from others with a smirk
Amy Huizenga’s checkbook went missing
Grandma Shirley was dismissing
Cavalier attitude she’s really a jerk

Tony Lazzaro hooked up via Facebook
Who he got was really a crook
Bought beer with stolen money
‘I’ll get rid of the snothead Honey’
He must feel he really got took

Cindy and George smelled a stench
And decided to protect the wench
Waffled on the facts
Dealt with angry whacks
In time they’ll face the judge’s bench

Roy Kronk was only taking a piddle
Lee and Mallory got caught in the middle
Baez will work for 3 years
Little pay but lots of jeers
Such bad mojo it’s really quite a riddle

Hopespring Dr neighbors are in an uproar
Living close to 4937 they really abhor
The killer is a scab
FL taxpayers pick up the tab
The Blight is spreading more and more

Judge Stan Strickland is very aware
That trouble is spreading everywhere
The trial in person might be nice
But Gentle Reader please think twice
You’ll be breathing The Blight’s same air

LOL! I love it.

» ellejay said:

{ Mar 8, 2010 – 10:03:19 } ..legally speaking…….i wonder if it matters that on the affadavit for indigent status, where casey states :

No other compensation, things of value, or funds have been paid or are anticipated to be paid in the future to the attorney in this case from any other person or source.”
******************

Ellejay,

Perhaps the words “or are anticipated to be paid” is a loop hole in the statement that will enable Baez to profit from future proceeds?

I also don’t see anything that would prohibit him from making some sort of profit off of this after all is said and done.

As for all of the hearsay? I can almost picture him kicked back at his desk (at home by the way) with soft music playing in the background and steaming cup of coffee an easy arms reach away while he reads through this nonsense. There he will compile a tiny little pile that he finds it necessary to address and the rest, the towering stack, will be forever doomed to file, and so that when he appears in court to address these matters, if in fact he does make such an appearance and doesn’t just ask his law clerk to type up a response and send it off, he will reprimand the Defense for inundating the court with such drivel.

Just my opinion and I am, as always, eagerly open to correction.

Willow

RE: MOTION TO EXCLUDE HEARSAY EVIDENCE, GOSSIP AND INNUENDO:

Part of the defense’s argument for tossing out Cindy’s 911 calls. Excerpted pg 5-6. It’s an interesting argument that says, at the point of the call, all police were doing was looking for info to prosecute someone. However, this argument kind of destroys Cindy’s statements that Casey didn’t call police (during all of that time prior) because she was protecting them from danger, while the defense says they weren’t in any danger. There may be typos, I copied the PDF, and didn’t cut and paste:

“The fact that Caylee Anthony is missing is a type of emergency, however Cynthia Anthony was aware for over a month that Caylee Anthony was not in the house that she lived in, and had a reasonable belief that what she said to the 911 operator would be used in the investigation to find her. Neither Cynthia nor Casey Anthony were in any immediate danger of any kind. Cynthia was trying to establish facts that could eventually lead to a prosecution , as she believed the child had been taken. As the declarant, Cynthia is behaving more like a witness because she is not in immediate danger, and is only giving information about a past crime as well as identifying the defendant.

In the second 911 call……Cynthia and Casey Anthony made several more statements which are testimonial and therefore subject to the confrontation clause……” I found my daughter’s car today and it smells like there’s been a dead body in the damn car”. Cynthia is more agitated and upset during this call. But despite the fact that she says she just found out that her granddaughter had been taken and is missing, the fact remains that the child had been missing for a month and Cynthia was aware of that fact. There is nothing the police can respond to at the home, as the child has already been missing for a long period of time. They can only ask what happened to establish facts about the crime. “

Also, Hornsby was quoted on the Orlando Sentinel blog as saying that the defense’s source of prior funds would be revealed to the public, and that the public has the right to know. I didn’t read all comments above, if this is redundant.

Probably too premature for me to post this question, but I’m at work and THEY won’t wait, so here goes:

I only read this latest Motion to Exclude once through, but does anyone else get the impression that this Motion trying to cast blame on other people (e.g., Cindy and Lee for starters)?

Yes, I can understand why a defense team has to file such a motion, but the substance of it strikes me as defeatist in its desperation and absurdity.

I surely would appreciate the cerebral efforts of all the good minds that meet up here.

(quote)But despite the fact that she says she just found out that her granddaughter had been taken and is missing, the fact remains that the child had been missing for a month and Cynthia was aware of that fact.(end quote)

This makes no sense. Cindy was aware Caylee was not in her (Cindy’s) home, but she most assuredly was NOT aware Caylee was ‘missing’. There is a world of difference between believing your grandchild is with her mother and believing your grandchild has been kidnapped. Sorry, but I can’t see how this statement holds any credibility whatsoever. The key word that changes the entire game is ‘taken’.

“Missing”, under the circumstances Cindy was aware of at the time of the 911 call, simply meant ‘not home’. To imply she knew Caylee was ‘missing’ in the sense of ‘kidnapped’ (and that’s what this statement does imply) is a cheap, cruel twisting of terms.

Are we then to believe anyone who frantically calls in a ‘missing persons’ report or a report of ‘kidnapping’ is simply seeking to ‘establish facts’?

Sorry, I should have said “prior to the 911 call” (rather than ‘at the time of the 911 call’ so as to avoid confusion about what she believed when she made the 911 call.

WSH,
So, are they going to try to get Cindy to say that she did not feel as though the situation was emergent? That she did not feel that anyone residing in that house was in immediate danger? Really? I’m pretty sure that she felt CAYLEE was in immediate danger! Doesn’t her statement go toward her state of mind at the time of the call since she had just discovered that Caylee was no longer in her mother’s care?

Pondering, haha, apparently we’re on the same wavelength.

Can’t you just hear it now?

Prosecution: “Mrs. Anthony, did you feel Caylee was in danger at the time you made the 911 call?”

CA: “No, I was simply seeking to establish facts.”

P: “So you felt Zanny the Nanny was no danger to your granddaughter?”

CA: “Not at that time.”

P: “Did a time ever arrive when you felt little Caylee was in danger?”

CA: “Well, yes. After a while I felt she might be.”

P: “At what point did this feeling of danger occur?”

CA: “At some point, but not prior to or during the 911 call where I was simply seeking to establish facts and get the police to come out quicker because the car smelled like a damned dea…uh….like rotting pizza.”

With all of the lies and grandiose story telling by KC, I have always been curious as to her grand scheme as to the end game. KC had to be aware that her time was becoming short in regards to Caylee’s whereabouts from Family and friends.

With Caylee’s birthday fast approaching and before she was arrested, It would make sense that she had a plan/fantasy worked out in her head. what was her plan?

This could answer some important questions IMO.

Was she just starting to work out a kidnap plot and had to rush it out (and not well thought out) after being arrested?

Was it New York and a new life with Tony?

Was it California and the soldier?

I do believe that she is stunted as far as maturity and responsibility are concerned but I really can’t grasp her just shrugging off a murder like it would just go away.

I always thought she had a play on the adage ” out of sight, out of mind”, But KC’s I believe was “out of state, out of mind”. Can you imagine if Tony was from New York City (also Zenaida) and if it finally came to where it is now? Just try and find Caylee and Zenaida in New York City, Yep, home free KC. And Cindy could call and ask to speak with Caylee but could be put off for a very long time with excuse after excuse, long enough for the real evidence to maybe be gone for good.

Would Kronk have even looked where he did if she was reported missing in NYC?
New York has a huge Hispanic population for Zenaida to melt into if the need arose.

I would be interested in hearing Tony’s take on the last week or two of the relationship, if in fact they had talked about going home to NY. Specific things in general, not a police interview in a murder case.

I just have a “feeling in my gut”, that KC was planning on leaving Orlando and Cindy far behind and that the kidnap plot was beginning to formulate in her mind as a “just in case” scenario.

All nice and pretty also complex enough with her added lies to tie up LE for years and let her get back to partying.
Maybe a scenario like this or something close, put her mind at ease and let her push it to the back of her mind as she hoed and partied . But Cindy was the monkey with the wrench…..

Caylee was missing, but Casey told Cindy that Caylee was with Zanny, so Cindy knew where Caylee was, but she hadn’t seen Caylee in 31 days, but she texted/spoke with Casey many times during that 31 days, and Casey never indicated that Caylee was in danger or missing, so when Cindy called 911 on July 15, she knew Caylee was missing but she didn’t really know Caylee was missing…….

That pretty much sums up the defense’s argument. IMO.

I recall Cindy saying words to the effect that she [thought] she’d say anything to get the authorities there asap. Such twisters and spinners, these no good-niks.

Silver says on the other thread that Cindy’s 911 statements will most likely be admitted under the Excited Utterance Exception to the Heresay Rule and that Baez had no alternative than to file a motion against it.
Silver’s word is good enough for me. BTW, I loved your scenario, PW!

I’m a gramma and if I’d known that kind of love any sooner, I’d have been forever changed at a much younger age. That being said, if I were in Cindy’s shoes back then, the moment I heard the words: “I haven’t seen her for…” you can bet my panic level would be off the charts, and the cops I called at the tow yard would be sizing me up for a sleeveless suit.

I have not had the trials and tribulations of dealing with a sneaky, lying, feisty, lunatic of a daughter, so I can’t say much more on how July 15, 2008 would have impacted me personally nor can I second guess the Anthonys, but common sense and common morality trump the majority of their strange actions. Can years of trying to deal with Casey (because she was such a “normal” child) have conditioned them to cower and reach for the cleaning supplies in a situation of the kids’ absence for a month is accompanied by the smell of death????? I don’t see how they can twist themselves out of this mess and they have failed miserably trying to fool anyone other than themselves.

Moneky with a wrench. Doberman on a lunge line. Cindy Anthony a/k/a Jack Hammer.

Many of the exceptions listed below are treated more extensively in individual articles.
[edit] Hearsay exceptions that apply even where the declarant is available
• Excited utterances: statements relating to startling events or condition made while the declarant was under the stress of excitement caused by the event or condition. This is the exception that may apply to the ‘police officer’ scenario listed above. The victim’s cries of help were made under the stress of a startling event, and the victim is still under the stress of the event, as is evidenced by the victim’s crying and visible shaking. *****An excited utterance does not have to be made at the same time of the startling event. A statement made minutes, hours or even days after the startling event can be excited utterances, so long as the declarant is still under the stress of the startling event. However, the more time that elapses between a startling event and the declarant’s statement, the more the statements will be looked upon with disfavor.
• Present sense impressions: A statement expressing the declarant’s impression of a condition existing at the time the statement was made, such as “it’s hot in here”, or “we’re going really fast”. Unlike an excited utterance, it need not be made in response to a startling event. Instead, it is admissible because it is a condition that the witness would likely have been experiencing at the same time as the declarant, and would instantly be able to corroborate.
• Declarations of present state of mind: Much like a present-sense impression describes the outside world, declarant’s statement to the effect of “I am angry!” or “I am Napoleon!” will be admissible to prove that the declarant was indeed angry, or did indeed believe himself to be Napoleon at that time. Used in cases where the declarant’s mental state is at issue. Present-state-of-mind statements are also used as circumstantial evidence of subsequent acts committed by the declarant, like his saying, “I’m gonna go buy some groceries and get the oil changed in my car on my way home from work.”
Another exception is statements made in the course of medical treatment, i.e., statements made by a patient to a medical professional to help in diagnosis and treatment. Any statements contained therein that attribute fault or causation to an individual will generally NOT be admissible under this exception, unless it involves a small child. (The Tender Years Doctrine).
Hearsay exceptions not excluded by the hearsay rule if the declarant is unavailable as a witness
• dying declarations and other statements under belief of impending death: often depicted in movies; the police officer asks the person on his deathbed, “Who attacked you?” and the victim replies, “The butler did it.” However, case law has ruled out this exception in criminal law, because the witness should always be cross examined in court; however, there is an exception to this exception for criminal cases: even though generally inadmissible to matters relating to criminal law, the exception has been carved out for actions relating to homicide cases[Fed. R. Evid. 804(b)(2)].
• declaration against interest: A statement that would incriminate or expose the declarant to liability to such an extent that it can be assumed he would only make such a statement if it were true. It would be assumed that one would lie to further one’s interests, so a statement against his interests (such as exposing oneself to criminal or civil liability) likely would not be made unless it were true.
• prior testimony: if the testimony was given under oath and the party against whom the testimony is being proffered was present and had the opportunity to cross examine the witness at that time. Often used to enter depositions into the court record at trial.
• admission of guilt: if you make a statement, verbal or otherwise, as an admission of guilt of the matter at hand, that statement would not be regarded as hearsay. In other words, self-incriminating statements (confessions) are not hearsay.[4]
• forfeiture by wrongdoing: the party against whom the statement is now offered (1) intentionally made the declarant unavailable; (2) with intent to prevent declarant’s testimony; (3) by wrongdoing. In plain English, if you get rid of a witness, statements they made can be used against you.
Theories supporting hearsay exceptions
In some jurisdictions, such as Canada, the limited exceptions format to the rule have been replaced by a more general theory of exceptions to the hearsay rule that allows courts to decide when documents, testimony or other evidentiary proof can be used that might not otherwise be considered.
The underlying rationale for many of the hearsay exceptions is that the circumstances of a particular statement make them reliable enough to be heard by a trier of fact. Statements made during the course of medical treatment, for example, are considered reliable because patients typically have little reason to lie to a doctor while they are being treated, and will generally be accurate in describing their ailments.
This, of course, is not always true. Patients do sometimes lie to their doctors (to get painkillers to which they are not entitled, for example). Hearsay exceptions do not mandate that a trier of fact (the jury or, in non-jury trials, the judge) accept the hearsay statement as being true. Hearsay exceptions mean only that the trier of fact will be informed of the hearsay statement and will be allowed to consider it when deciding on a verdict in the case. The jury is free to disregard a hearsay statement if the jury does not believe it. The hearsay rule controls only what out-of-court statements a trier of fact gets to consider in deciding a case, not how they consider the out-of-court statements.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hearsay_in_United_States_law

After reading this, now I understand why Cindy kept saying that she made-up statements only to “get the police to come”.****”The declarant’s reflective powers must be stilled, meaning that, while making the statement, the declarant would not have had a chance to reflect upon the startling event, fabricate a purposefully false statement, and then say it.”
However even though Cindy had known Caylee was missing from the house for a long time, she never knew that Caylee was missing from her mother and that Caylee had been kidnapped. So it is a new startling, shocking event or condition.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excited_utterances
An excited utterance, in the law of evidence, is a statement made by a person in response to a startling or shocking event or condition. The statement must be spontaneously made by the person (the declarant) while still under the stress of excitement from the event or condition. The subject matter and content of the statement must “relate to” event or condition. The statement could be a description or explanation (as required for present sense impression), or an opinion or inference. Examples include: “Look out! We’re going to crash!” or “I think he’s crazy. He’s shooting at us!” The basis for this hearsay exception is the belief that a statement made under the stress is likely to be trustworthy and unlikely to be premeditated falsehoods. Compared to present sense impression, excited utterance is broader in scope for permitting a longer time lapse between event and statement, and a wider range of content in the statement.
Under the Federal Rules of Evidence, an excited utterance is a hearsay exception, and is admissible to prove the truth of the statement itself (e.g., in the case of the first quotation above, to prove that the vehicle the declarant was riding in was, in fact, about to crash). To prove the truth of the statement means to persuade the finder of fact to believe the affirmative sense of the statement. “Truth” here does not mean truth from the subjective point of view of the declarant or from the objective point of view of a reasonably prudent person. It simply refers to the affirmative assertion of the statement.
Spontaneity of the declarant is a key to admissibility. An excited utterance does not have to be made at time of the startling event, but must be made while the declarant is still in a state of surprise or shock from the incident. The declarant’s reflective powers must be stilled, meaning that, while making the statement, the declarant would not have had a chance to reflect upon the startling event, fabricate a purposefully false statement, and then say it. If the declarant is believed to have had time to reflect on the situation before making the statement, the statement would not be spontaneous and thus not an excited utterance. However, under certain circumstances, it is possible for days to have passed before the declarant fully reflects on the event, and “unstills” his or her reflective powers.
Spontaneity is established by the declarant’s demeanor, time lapse, and content of the statement. Declarant’s appearance of calmness at time statement lessens admissibility. Time lapse between the startling event and the statement is a factor for both admissibility and weight. A statement made long after the event may be deemed less spontaneous than one made contemporaneously or shortly after. Outer limit of the permissible time lapse can only be determined from the circumstances of a particular case. For example, if a declarant made a statement six days after a car crash due to the extent of his injuries, admissibility of the statement is diminished because of the significant passage of time. However, if evidence shows that he was continuously distraught and did not yet have a chance to reflect upon the crash, the statement could be admissible but may have less weight than if the statement had been made one hour after the crash. A complete and detailed statement may infer the lack of spontaneity, as a narrative of a past completed event would require the declarant’s reflection and organization.

..as with most of their motions, it doesn’t take them long to get it wrong..

..their “statement of facts”——–”on july 16 2008, casey anthony was arressted and charged with first degree murder (capital)…” ( umm,no, that would come later..)

If it wasn’t an emergency, why would Cindy have felt that it was soooo important to make sure the police came? Does she think it’s OK to lie to law enforcement in order to get them to respond to a NON emergency situation?

For anyone to believe that someone wouldn’t be shocked ( at the least startled) after receiving news that their granddaughter was missing from her mother for nearly a month, they would have to be insane.

AZLawyer said: { Mar 9, 2010 – 02:03:36: In a word, yes.

WSH said: { Mar 9, 2010 – 02:03:40: They’d be fitting me for my sleeveless suit

Ellejay, I am always taken aback by the lack of proof-reading in the defense team’s moving papers. Wrong case numbers and inaccurate dates in a case of this magnitude signed and filed by cast members either seeking or having attained a certain notoriety is just plain careless and sloppy. First year law students learn to be fastidious about such things. To have it happen time and again is shameful – even for a jaywalking case.

??? with regard to “…the declarant would not have had a chance to reflect upon the startling event…” I am brought to mind of Lee asking Casey “Is this like last time?”

Cindy, was there a time previous to this when Caylee was missing or it appeared that she was missing?

Could there a more accurate analogy than “a can of worms” when it comes to the mysteries of this family?

“First year law students learn to be fastidious about such things”.

..and here i’ve always wondered if these motions aren’t being written BY andrea’s students!

..they also continue in their “argument” section………” cindy anthony made two 911 calls on july 15th” ( no, she made 3 calls).

..i can’t believe they add, that “cynthia anthony’s calls were made under calm circumstances.” (??)

» AZLawyer said: { Mar 9, 2010 – 02:03:36 } If it wasn’t an emergency, why would Cindy have felt that it was soooo important to make sure the police came? Does she think it’s OK to lie to law enforcement in order to get them to respond to a NON emergency situation?
———

Further, why would she call them three times? If she only called them once, the idea that she was establishing facts might be more believable. Even twice, if she was really angry that Casey wasn’t taking her to Caylee….I could believe she was hoping the police could force Casey to take her to Caylee. But the third call was clearly motivated by her discovery that “the babysitter has her.” She wasn’t concerned about the car at that point. She called police for one reason…..because of what Casey had just told her.

Re: “..and here i’ve always wondered if these motions aren’t being written BY andrea’s students!”

I’d say (based on 30 yrs. exp. in the legal field) that whomever is drafting these motions isn’t that familiar with the case nor are they familiar with the local rules as to required content. Students at DePaul could be taking a “stab” at drafting these docs, but if it is part of their grade, then the Prof. would be looking closer. Nope, I think its someone in JB’s office in Florida putting these things together, cutting and pasting, working (underpaid) from memory and poor notes. I do not want to appear politically incorrecr or insensitive here but the poor grammar, and punctuation alone would lead me to think that the person drafting these documents may not have English as a primary language (not that uncommon in Florida).

THEN whomever is in charge of proof-reading lost their glasses. Again, one person cranking these out, over worked – no “fresh eyes” reviewing the drafts. But SOMEONE has to approve the FINAL document and that SHOULD be the ATTORNEY[s].

So whomever is responsible for moving the Court (i.e., the attorneys who sign the final document) TRUSTS their staff entirely too much or they are comfortable with a sub-standard work product and sign their name without close review. WHAT?

ya get what ya pay for, I guess.

Whatever anyone may think of Cindy now, you simply cannnot listen to that heartwrenching call and not hear the cry of desperation and agony in her voice. That’s why it’s so damning, isn’t it? Any rational person would conclude she is beside herself with fear and worry and is very clear in her belief that this is an emergency that needs immediate attention on the part of law enforcement. She and KC’s defence team can deny it now, but the intent of her call is absolutely unmistakable.

Is it possible the prosecution WON’T be able to argue that one successfully?

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/28326950/03082010-Memorandum-Supporting-Party-Picture-Motion

..now, in their “statement of facts”, this time they have decided that she was arrested and charged in oct.2008 ( no mention of the july arrest) and that she was charged with 4 counts of lying to LE IN oct. ( um no, she lied to LE 4 times in july.)

..( they’re still getting thier dollar’s worth i guess CL.)

My impressions of Cindy’s calls when I first heard the recordings were: (1) she seemed to assume the operator would recall that she had called earlier, so I didn’t think she was that experienced with emergency type calls; (2) why was she placing so many calls with a missing child – can’t she get it right the first time? why wasn’t there enough info. to get the sirens screaming? (3) she seemed fairly in control altho’ her voice did betray emotion – so I gave the woman credit for being able to remain somewhat calm (not knowing then that she was a professional nurse) and (4) the way she stated that I’ve found my daughter but I can’t find my granddaughter sounded [to me] like they strayed away from the camp grounds and then suddenly the word TAKEN comes into the context and the use of that particular word by GrandMa has ALWAYS puzzled me. Taken and then a few days later “Sweetheart” (as in I don’t know what your part is in all this, Sweetheart) are the 2 words that hooked me into this case for the duration. Very telling, but I wish I knew what…

Cindy’s reason ALONE for why she said that about the smell in the car was because SHE SAID I would have said anything to get them to the house ASAP! What was the ASAP, fear, adrenalin and shock!

Cindy finding Amy’s resume in the car was Caylee only way of reaching out to the A’s and saying she was no longer alive. KC did not think that her mom after being married to a detective would have learned some things. Cindy had the GUT FEELINGS, not KC. She went to Universal as well. She sensed something and I am certain her myspace speaks volumes to all. To get onto a computer and teach yourself something in a short time with the sole purpose of doing so is to make your 22 year old daughter feel guilty is called being on a mission.

The only recourse Cindy had was to do that because of all the excuses that son of b*#@h gave her whenever she answered her phone speaks volumes too. These are the moments I felt for Cindy and also when she called 911. There was never a calm, cool, collected CA and there will never be after this.

Wow – those 24 pages of statements do paint a most unlovely picture.

I can understand hearsay as, example: Jack tells LE what Jane told him Jill said happened to her…

I can’t understand hearsay as Jack tells LE what Jane said happened to her…
This is Jack relating exactly, to the best of his knowledge, what someone told him about themselves. Is this hearsay? If it is, then LE needs to go on and depose Jane. And every Jack and Jill and Tom, Dick and Harry and get it straight from them.

But you see, it’s really the tow yard stuff on the very first page that got to me — the tow yard guy can’t testify to what George said to him??? Huh? I couldn’t even read after page 3. I am too confused with the idea that all of this stuff can have a good reason to not be admitted. Like at the top of page 3 – “Cindy tells Brittany about finding the car.” Hearsay??? Huh?

We need you, Silver!!! I need you!

All that for $100k ?

AZ Lawyer,

How then does the state start out introducing this case if not for the 911 calls? Their opening has to be about being made aware that there was a missing child, right? So I am going to go with the facts, and that is that a concerned grandmother called 911 to get them to force her spawn to take her to Caylee, and when she refused Cindy thought LE would feel as she did and made KC take her to Caylee, and with a smudge of sarcasm, she didn’t have to go very far, up the road and some have said 55 seconds and they are there.

http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/Stories/Local/0308%20Casey%20Case%20Compiled%20Hearsay%20Statements.pdf

yep, the 24 page chart of “hearsay” statements, quite the read.

..on the very first page, ( stmt. made by ) ricardo——-(as told to ) troy—-”now you believe on june 9th-june 10th is the last time ricardo saw”

( that’s it, the end of their sentence on their master chart——ricardo went blind that day ??lol)

..later, (stmt. made by ) yuri——(as told to) —–jerold white—-”he says that he asked corporal melich if the area had already been searched, corporal melich said yes it had.”

( that would indicate that yuri was talking to himself…

..conclusion——-whoever writes up their motions—–also wrote up this chart.

Cindy was in a panic after learning that KC did not know where Caylee was then and for 31 days, a panick, so these yahoo’s are going to look AGAIN like yahoo’s and nothing changes and the trial goes forward and everyone that was involved has to tell their side and KC has the same opportunity to do the same, and since she was so much more educated and financially advanced beyond all of her friends she should take the stand and correct them and the rest of us. I can’t wait to see her watch TL walk up to the stand and raise his right hand, more than any of the others, he was there and he saw her and she was happy go lucky.

PonderingWhy said: { Mar 9, 2010 – 03:03:37 }

I agree there is emotion in her voice at a certain point; however, how can her intent be understood if Caylee was at the bottom of her list. If your grandbaby is missing why spend all that time talking about arresting a person for stealing your car?

So I take the emotion I hear with a grain of salt. First thing out of my mouth would be… there is a BABY missing. Not a piece of machinery.

Oh heck. The woman is a total liar in every way. I just want to see her locked up next to PPP and not even try to get into that toxic dump of a brain she has.

Attorney on tv right now (4:11pm) my time said that they have a strong case without the 911 call, but that it does fall under the excited utterance of the law. The SA can still question both of the A’s about the condition of the car when they picked it up and there will be an objection raised, but so many witnesses know about because of Cindy. Either way she KC didn’t report her missing for 31 days, and KC is the only one who can tell the jury why she didn’t. My boyfriend has always said what prevented Cindy from calling CPS to do a well check? especially when Cindy created her myspace and admits KC has no means of supporting the baby. So even on July 3rd, Cindy was saying KC was incompetent as a mother.

I hate knowing no one did anything to watch out for Caylee’s well being, so much could have been done to prevent this and nothing got done. Hopefully the jury will do something about it next year, it won’t bring Caylee back so today until May I will remind myself that if Caylee could somehow come back, would she knowing her family had nothing good instore for her, and if God were to ask her if she wanted to come back Caylee saying sweetly No Thank you I am fine right where I am.

» Jennyb said: { Mar 9, 2010 – 05:03:45 }PonderingWhy said: { Mar 9, 2010 – 03:03:37 }
I agree there is emotion in her voice at a certain point; however, how can her intent be understood if Caylee was at the bottom of her list. If your grandbaby is missing why spend all that time talking about arresting a person for stealing your car?So I take the emotion I hear with a grain of salt. First thing out of my mouth would be… there is a BABY missing. Not a piece of machinery.

I think at the point of that first call Casey was just telling Cindy that she wouldn’t take her to where Caylee was. Cindy did use the car as a ruse, because it was her only legal standing, since the car was in her name. There was no way to force an adult to produce her grandchild. After Lee spoke with Casey and she told the kidnapping story, then Cindy freaked out , put 2 and 2 together with the smell (on some level) , then the emotional outburst did come out.

WSH. Yes. Totally agree. Sometime between the second and third calls she realized Caylee was DEAD. I think that’s where the emotion came from (understandably). That quavering voice and excited utterance was the only true thing that woman has probably ever spoken.

I do believe during that 31 days a stolen car report could have been made. And she could have expressed concern that her indigent daughter was with her grandaughter and had no means of taking care of her. If there had been an argument (which I think there was) before Casey leaving the house then there could be a good motive established right there for the police to look into it. Not saying they could legally take Caylee away from Casey but I have to believe some action could have been taken – even if it was just a stolen car. But Cindy would never have done that. Heck, she went back to work after getting the car and telling her co-workers (who pleaded with her to phone 911 immediately) that she wanted to talk to Casey first. What a load of garbage!

And thanks for responding WSH. Lately I’ve been in the “is this thing on?” mode. LOL.

And another thing that just entered my head, Cindy hearing that KC hadn’t seen her daughter for 31 days had to get her ticker going. If she for a moment did not feel threatened with fear and panick then I am right she is the devil and KC a decipal. If KC was afraid to contact authorities for fear on the unknown, why didn’t she stop Cindy from making those calls. She had every opportunity to tell her mother while in the parking lot of the police department, hey mom this is a bad idea, I was told Caylee would be harmed with duct tape? Cindy is such an airhead, a heartless wench from the bowels of hell.

KC didn’t have to say anything she handled herself just fine as the detectives drove her from place to place, and went with her to her office, Cindy knew KC would assist with looking for the baby after all Cindy knew how much KCloved the baby, she loved her to death Cindy you are right (NOT)

I really don’t think there’s any reason to be surprised Casey has been declared indigent. She was when she was first arrested and now she’s ran through her blood money, so she’s back to square one.

Just look at it as Caylee’s little shiney smiling face relieved the Florida taxpayers of a little over $100k. And that’s the positive spin that should be put on it.

Casey has the constitutional right to a fair trial and a proper defense. We have to remember that.

Richard Hornsby has a new active post up at his blog and there are some comments. Hopefully he’ll have some interesting things to say about Casey’s indigency and the motions.

I hope that Hornsby will begin commenting again on the legalities of this case. We can’t have enough lawyers discussing this in my opinion. In other words…

UNLEASH THE LAWYERS!

This also is confusing. One hour after the first set…

3/8/2010. . . . . Affidavit of Attorney’s Fees Indigent for Costs re: Andrea Lyon
3/8/2010. . . . . Affidavit of Attorney’s Fees Indigent for Costs re: Jose Baez

03/08/2010 . . . . Affidavit of Insolvency/Indigency Found not Indigent
03/08/2010 . . . . Affidavit of Insolvency/Indigency Amended as to indigency

I meant… this supposedly appeared after the first set:

03/08/2010 . . . . Affidavit of Insolvency/Indigency Found not Indigent
03/08/2010 . . . . Affidavit of Insolvency/Indigency Amended as to indigency

(probably a dumb) Question for Silver or any other lawyer here…

From http://myclerk.myorangeclerk.com/CaseDetail.aspx?CaseID=6236234

03/08/2010 Affidavit of Insolvency/Indigency
Found not Indigent

03/08/2010 Affidavit of Insolvency/Indigency
Amended as to indigency

Does this mean KC was found not Indigent but then reversed?
OR
Was she found not Indigent, and Baez amended his original affidavit to try again?

Jenny B

Confusing is an understatement! Can someone who understands that please explain?

Also, if this has been discussed I didn’t see it, so I’ll ask…..

Is the defense asking for reimberment of the legal fees paid to date?

OK, that second, later set is possibly turning down the attorney request for reimbursement? (read from a commenter query on Hornsby’s). News is changing fast and furiously on this and OS might not have the latest. Wouldn’t be the first time. lol

Wait a minute…now I’m confused. I thought she was found indigent.

owww…brain-freeze.

T2M, I’m thinking maybe she was found not indigent until now and therefore the request for retroactive attorney fees is denied. Question Mark.

Jenny B,

LOL BIG question mark! I’m soooo lost on this.

everyone who is talking about the 911 call cindy made and her not saying she was worried or afraid WHAT ABOUT HER MYSPACE POST!!?!?!? sure seemed like she was really concerned to me heck she didn’teven know who was watching caylee!!

Val, Jennyb,

Could it be possible that the ruling of indigency is from this moment on and at no time prior? It’s been determined that Casey has already paid close to $90000 for legal services, so I don’t believe that anything prior to the actual ruling would apply. Does that make sense?

Willow …

Val,

Indeed. Casey has a right to a fair trial — thing is, I wish it were before a Public Defender, which isn’t to question their competency, for surely I’ve known DP qualified PDs who won LWOP for their indigent clients. But for this all star cast that Casey has, this case wouldn’t be dragging on and on.

O darn. I misunderstood the entire indigent thingy. O, so, what else is new.

Willow P Sr,

I am begining to think that’s the deal, the State will not pay for leagl fees prior to the date the motion was filed.

T2M

Would that be JR. or SR. for you?

Ha!

Anyway, I’m going back to read the whole thing. It’s been a long day. But, that’s what I think is happening here, too.

Willow, yeah. It wasn’t enough for them to ask for fees from this date forward — they had to get grabby. Although I thought they weren’t asking for fees at all, just expenses? Oy.

And Hornsby mods every comment so it could be a while before there’s a full-blown discussion on his site. Maybe never. C’mon Richard… show us the money!

Jennyb,

Greedy grabbers. I still have to re-read to determine the difference between a fee and expense. Has that been made clear in the ruling?

Willow, I haven’t read the legal docs but in most jobs the fee is the amount per hour (say if a lawyer charges $400 an hour) if you’re on retainer or a consultant of some type. Expenses would be gas, parking, food, xeroxes, etc. Anything you’d put on an expense report. Incidentals (but not necessarily a small amount when you consider airfare and everything else). lol, basically an expense is anything not nailed down if you get my drift.

Jennyb,

I understand what you’re saying, I just recall I think it was Baez speaking about the added expense of hiring experts, and wonder if he wasn’t attempting to consider their fees expenses. Do you see what I mean?

I guess experts are considered expenses for sure, Willow. I completely forgot about that. Thanks.

Jennyb said: I agree there is emotion in her voice at a certain point; however, how can her intent be understood if Caylee was at the bottom of her list.
*****

Respectfully, this is where we don’t seem to agree. I don’t agree Caylee was at the bottom of Cindy’s list, I think she was right up there at the top. My understanding, and it’s only based on my ability TO understand, is that Cindy suspected something was horribly wrong, but until Casey came out and admitted Caylee was gone (‘kidnapped’ Cindy was doing what many of us (well, me at least) would do; feeling sick with worry but desperate to believe there might be a ‘good answer’ for it all.

I agree with the poster who said Cindy used the car as an excuse to call the police once the game was up as far as where Casey was, in an effort to force Casey to take her to Caylee. She escalated when Casey didn’t budge on producing Caylee, and when Casey revealed Caylee was missing (‘kidnapped’ all hell broke loose. That’s when Cindy, in my opinion, was as honest as she has ever been, both in her words and in her actions. After that, all bets were off. But that 911 call, to me, was genuine terror for someone she did, in fact, love.

PonderingWhy,

I agree.

Pondering – I totally agree with your comment about Cindy’s behavior, feelings and actions at that critical moment and the days leading up to it.

Pondering, I agree too. I guess what I’m trying to convey (badly) is if Caylee was truly first and foremost Cindy would not have given Casey 31 days, would not have given her until the 3rd phone call, would have called 911 immediately and not gone back to work and not told her co-workers who pleaded with her to call LE that she had to talk to Casey first. She called her daughter a sociopath and a thief to her friends so she obviously didn’t think Caylee was with the Mother of the Year for 31 days.

I agree with you. I just don’t think Cindy ever put Caylee first. So her “emotion” on the third phone call is just an empty thing to me. Not saying it didn’t exist and not saying it didn’t escalate — I’m just saying I could give two hoots for her “emotion”.

Trial date set for Casey Anthony — judge sets date of May 9, 2011

Not sure if this has been posted with you yet, just starting to read todays posts.

I guess I’ll never understand how Cindy could use the car as an “excuse” when a baby is gone with a penniless, homeless, worthless mother. You need an excuse for that? And the car smelled like DEATH. I just don’t understand how you can lead off with a stolen car to the 911 operator. She makes me sick.

I can quite easily rip Cindy (and George) up one side and down the other for the things she has done since then, but I can’t demonize her prior to then. And I can’t say she and George didn’t love Caylee. I think they adored her. I also think Caylee was lost twice; once when she was murdered and once when the Anthony family, in my opinion, pushed her aside to save Casey.

I’ve still got money on George breaking, though I think Cindy is too far gone.

I know it’s not a popular opinion, but it’s the way I see it.

Pondering, I think you state your feelings really well. And I’d bet the opinion is 50/50… many people agree with you. We’re not really all that far apart… I think I have a slightly different, more heartless, spin on Cindy’s actions but at the end of the day we do agree on this: “The Anthony family pushed her aside to save Casey.” There’s no denying that.

I don’t think George will tell the truth, sadly. I don’t think he’s got the guts.

I’m sure that Cindy’s 911 call will be admitted. And then she will have the wonderful opportunity to explain that the car smelled like rotten pizza.

I just wish we could listen to the jury deliberate. I think there will be many times that the jury will be just as outraged with Casey’s family as they will be with her.

Jennyb, I don’t think Cindy ‘knew’ she was giving Casey 31 days. Stepping back from the emotion we all feel about how wretchedly these people have behaved once they went into ‘save Casey’ mode, I just don’t think Cindy ever considered the idea that Casey had murdered Caylee during those 31 days. It all came apart once the car was recovered, but up until then, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to give at least that much benefit of the doubt (that your kid isn’t a murderer even if she’s a liar and a theif!).

There are many ways to interpret the evidence and the facts as we see them. This is just the way I see it.

Yes, we do agree on that point, Jennyb. I think Caylee’s memory is on hold until Casey’s situation is no longer the issue. I wouldn’t want to be there for the breakdown once this is over, though.

And you could well be right about George. He’s just my one little glimmer of hope that if anyone in that family can redeem themselves, my money’s on him.

Val,

Am I reading these docs correctly? The defense is asking not for expenses or fees but costs, which would entail ALL to include attorney’s fees and expenses, from filing to travel? ALL? Well, if so, that makes it easy.

Pondering, I don’t think Cindy thought Casey had murdered Caylee until she smelled the car. She could have done something sooner, she sure knew her daughter wasn’t a good mom, but when they got that car they knew someone was dead. Their granddaughter, someone else’s child, or sister or brother or mom or dad. A nurse and a former LE officer only cared about themselves and their miserable daughter and didn’t care about doing the right thing. I find a huge amount of fault with that. If they didn’t think it was Caylee why didn’t they call 911 from the tow yard? Wouldn’t any right-minded citizen call 911 when they smell a dead body? Not very nice people to say the least.

Why would someone go into a profession like nursing or law enforcement if they didn’t have a social conscience, didn’t care about people’s health, safety and well-being? There are lots of other ways to earn a living. I’m just hoping there aren’t a lot of other trained nurses and LE officers living amongst us who don’t give a damn about their fellow man. I hope Cindy and George are the exception and not the rule. They are a shame to their chosen fields in my opinion.

http://myclerk.myorangeclerk.com/CaseDetail.aspx?CaseID=6236234
03/08/2010 Affidavit of Insolvency/Indigency
Found not Indigent
03/08/2010 Affidavit of Insolvency/Indigency
Amended as to indigency
03/09/2010 Correspondence
to Judge
*********************************************************
Who is this now? Another correspondence??? Huh??? 8O

Jennyb – I hear what you’re saying. And as much as I hate to give Cindy and George a pass on ANYTHING . . . I think it was too much to wrap their minds around at that given moment. I think their guts were telling them one thing, and their hearts wouldn’t let their minds accept the twisted horror that was in front of them.

This has been my opinion from the get go. Now, once they had a chance to let things ‘sink in’ – all bets are off. IMO

I understand Lily. I’m going over the top a bit (just a bit lol) because when people say Cindy & George didn’t know, couldn’t have known, that it was Caylee who was the cause of the decomp odor… well why not do the right thing and make that call?

I know it’s twisted and convoluted, the psychology, the mysterious workings of the human subconscious – I’m just trying to make the point that they knew more than they *didn’t know* and I don’t give them a pass.

..i also beleive that cindy and george loved caylee, the video in the pool, the pictures of them with her, are very genuine.

..if anyone “flips”, i think it will be lee, now that he’s had time to think. after all, he’s a young man with a future ahead of him, looking to marry. he may be thinking of going into that future with a clear conscience.

Anyway, George told LE he knew the smell and it’s a smell you never forget. And Cindy said there’s a dead body in the damn car. So both of them knew there was something dead. They both at one time took oaths, George to protect and serve and I guess nurses also have an oath (similar to the hippocratic oath of doctors) I have to imagine.

To me they’re both a disgrace.

If they felt it was decomposition and if they believed their daughter to be a great mom and innocent, even MORE reason to call from the tow yard. I would expect they’d be scared that someone else had hurt Caylee, maybe one of Casey’s skeery new friends, the hoodlums, you know, the ones in college and with jobs and stuff. Those bad people.

Who is this now? Another correspondence??? Huh???

..hmmmmmmm..interesting FRG!

..someone jealous of james mcintyre, so writing their own nonsense to the judge?

..”i am the J” writing a sequel to his own ‘correspondence’ of last friday?

correction: Cindy said “It smells like there’s been a dead body…”. She didn’t say she *knew*. Just in case anyone wants to nail me for that one.

what you all are describing about how the anthony’s loved caylee like they did only makes what they have done SO SO much more worse! I could never imagine doing the things they’ve done to my niece who is a month younger than caylee would have been.

Quite the disconnect, isn’t it Laser. Well, I guess it’s better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all. Or some such thing. Here today, gone tomorrow. Hey, we have pics in the pool! We looked at the stars! Wait, George get me the Febreze, gotta clear out this stench of the dead baby in the car.

» PonderingWhy said: { Mar 9, 2010 – 08:03:28 }

Respectfully, this is where we don’t seem to agree. I don’t agree Caylee was at the bottom of Cindy’s list, I think she was right up there at the top. My understanding, and it’s only based on my ability TO understand, is that Cindy suspected something was horribly wrong, but until Casey came out and admitted Caylee was gone (‘kidnapped’) Cindy was doing what many of us (well, me at least) would do; feeling sick with worry but desperate to believe there might be a ‘good answer’ for it all.

I agree.

I agree with the poster who said Cindy used the car as an excuse to call the police once the game was up as far as where Casey was, in an effort to force Casey to take her to Caylee. She escalated when Casey didn’t budge on producing Caylee, and when Casey revealed Caylee was missing (‘kidnapped’) all hell broke loose. That’s when Cindy, in my opinion, was as honest as she has ever been, both in her words and in her actions. After that, all bets were off. But that 911 call, to me, was genuine terror for someone she did, in fact, love.

I agree, again.

George vomits when he smells the car knows the smell yet they take it home and CLEAN IT!!!

you know what’s another sad thing they loved caylee so much they can’t take the time to sit on her side of the court room once…i bet throughout the whole trail they will sit on casey’s side they could at least split it?!?! George doesn’t even wear his caylee button anymore either….by their actions and words in some ways it doesn’t even seem like caylee was a member of their family…especially WHEN THEY CAN’T EVEN CALL HER BY THE NAME THEY GAVE HER!!!!!

Well I guess it’s you and me on this lonely bench Laser. Nighty night and have a pleasant tomorrow.

Yup can’t wait to see the awesome evidence joy wray had in the doc dump tommorrow

I don’t think you guys are on a lonely bench. I think we’re closer in our thoughts than what’s been demonstrated here.

The only disconnect is WHEN did Cin & Geo let their critical thinking ‘skills’ win over their heart and emotions? IMO it took a little bit longer than it took us – BECAUSE they loved her so much.

That does not give them a pass once the shock wore off.

In Texas if you can bond out you can afford your own attorney.

On July 8, 2008 Mary Lou, Shirley Pease’s sister were emailing back and forth and said that Cindy doesn’t think Casey is pregnant but Cindy she didn’t the first time either.

I’ve thought about the possibility of Casey being pregnant and if she was it would be her the third pregnancy in three years according to what Casey told Brandon Snow about a miscarriage on Valentines day.

Has any information about the pregnancy test (unused) found at the crime scene been released? Were any prints found on it? Was the box opened but not used? Did Casey think she was pregnant again? Did Casey buy it? Has it been found on any of the receipts? If so, I know several that post here that would have the bar code, who made it, what stores sold it before most of us could blink.

Casey would be in the same place as she was when she got pregnant with Caylee and not really knowing who the father was. The list includes Ricardo M., Chris Stutz, Anthony R. and Tony L. that we know have said they’ve had sex with her in that time frame.

On May 23, 2008 ( it was also the day Tony L. got her number, called and told her about the pool party), Casey in a IM with Anthony R. said she was looking forward to her vacation that started “next Thursday” which would of been May 29. Casey told him she would have 15 days all to herself because Cindy was going to take care of Caylee. Her “vacation” ran May 29 – June 12,2008.

Cindy did take a week of vacation around her birthday, June 5 th to bond with Casey and Caylee, but Casey wasn’t around to bond. June 5 was the last time Lee saw Caylee.

Casey showed up on June 7 and told Cindy the nanny would be taking care of Caylee June 9 – 12,2008. Did Casey plan on killing Caylee then?

Casey’s “vacation” would be over June 12,2008, four days before Caylee went missing. The same day Casey claims Zenadia called her on her cell phone, but she wasn’t able to inquire as to my daughter’s where about’s.

Unfortunately Casey knew the power of “parental rights” that she had over Cindy. Casey could walked out the door anytime she wanted and take Caylee away from her and Cindy could not stop her. Casey could of left town , the state or the country and Cindy could not stop her from taking Caylee. Casey did exactly what Cindy feared the most.

Go back and read the first interviews with Casey telling Yuri Melich about going to work as she usually does then proceeded to work. Do they speak like that because of George being LE?

I try,really try to understand this family and I can’t. I’m not at the point of trying to find something good to say or even likeing them.

% I’m just a soul whose intentions are good. Oh Lord,please don’t let me be misunderstood. Eric Burdon and the Animals %

Oh my god. This is a huge rave. Sorry.

Just a few thoughts about early moments. I think it is easy to lapse into colouring them with the paints we have at hand now. As opposed to the pencils we had then. We can’t colour the past with what we know now.

Re the legal questions I am starting to feel really bad for Silver cause she has repeatedly answered a lot of the questions repeatedly posed. How about creating a Maurapedia of Silverado to spare “expert” time. And a Maurapedia clone.

About the new defense applications. Is this drafting quality standard or is it unusual in a case like this to entertain Court documents presented in this way? I mean no one appears to proof what must be documents that are days, if not weeks or in this case possibly months in draft.

Also I’m having big trouble with some of the “categories” certain statements etc. have fallen into. ie suspension of disbelief. I thought these legal arguments were supposed to make sense in law and in fact?

Re indigent status. Yep she sure seems to be. Face it the only good income year Casey had was the year she murdered Cayley. There is some $ sort of missing from the income/expense statement isn’t there? Is that WIP? Or did I miss about $75 grand in expense. Or maybe the income was over reported?

Re delay of trial. In a perfect world it would be nice if all officers of the court were capable, competent and efficient. Not. KC is entitled to a fair trial and like everyone deserves one. Also there is that thing where justice must not just be done but be seen to be done. To me it seems a lot of that is taking place here. So the Trial is forever away. Everyone has time to do a good job.

As a side note mental illness is just that. An illness. Like a disease. It needs and deserves medical treatment. If we continue to fall into the blame trap we will gain nothing. Adherence to this fallacy is very costly in human lives, human resources and just about every other social cost absorbed by our governments ie us. I hope I’m not being argumentative but mental illness begets family disintegration which devolves into legal or illegal antisocial behaviour which frequently leads to deployment of community resources often coupled with violence of some sort. So denigrating the value of responding to mental illness in our communities in a human and cost effective way is counter intuitive.

OK I’m shutting up now. And I’ll stop with the shouting. I need chicken soup. Yesterday was International Womens Day.

Oh one other thing that I love yet wonder about. I love that in the US the juries get to talk. Here in Canada no one ever gets to talk to them before, during or after. So we never know. (I’d love 5o know what our pig farmer mass murderer jury thought or maybe not) Maybe we shouldn’t and our decisions left to reside with one’s conscience. It definitely shuts out commercialism and blame. But…….?? Oh …..also a few missing ,,,, and ??? thoughts.

Nope, Jennyb, you’re not alone. I agree with Pondering Why that at the moment Cindy discovered Caylee was missing, she became distraught. However, I’m not under the impression that Caylee, before or after her disappearance was Cindy’s top priority. I think checking up on Casey, finding fault, urging Casey to do the right thing, holding Caylee’s custody over Casey’s head, and making sure everyone knew what a failure Casey was, and that Cindy was paying the bills, came first.
In other words, I think being right mattered more to Cindy than did Caylee’s welfare.

I think 50 meant “to” and here are a few more ,,,,

It is very obvious to me that George and Cindy loved Caylee dearly. George can barely talk about her without nearly throwing up. I don’t know that Cindy has really thought about what has happened to Caylee. She has a new mission now, and that might be what is saving her sanity. I don’t believe she will ever back down off her mission because then what would she do? She would have to deal with reality. As long as she is busy defending Casey, no other thoughts have to enter her head. She just has to keep busy.

One other thing. My daughter (the 20 yr old) was the first grandchild and great-grandchild born to many proud Grandmas and Grandpas. These people bragged about EVERYTHING she did. They almost always refered to her as “that little girl”. Even today, when my Mom and Dad greet her they say, “How’s my girl?!?!” They call me and ask how their girl is doing. She has her own apartment and cell phone. “Dad, call and ask her yourself!” LOL. I know many people are offended that the Anthony’s don’t refer to Caylee by name, but this is very normal in my family. It is obviously a learned thing because I refer to my neices and nephew the same way. If my three year old nephew has a sleep over with me and does something amazing (like sleep in until 8:00am) I’ll call my my Mom and say, “this little guy is such a good sleeper”. To me it’s just more endearing that saying, “Owen is such a good sleeper”. I realize that no one has been griping about this point on this thread but I see it mentioned sometimes and this is a place for miscellaneous topics.

Val, thanks for the Breaking News Story. Bang on. If you’re wrong, he’ll surely call to clear his name. Ring damn you ring. “Operator, I’m just calling to see if my phone is working.” Why isn’t he calling????????

Val, I am very sorry to hear of your Uncle’s passing. May he rest in peace.

ILikeToBendPages said: { Mar 10, 2010 – 12:03:20 } In Texas if you can bond out you can afford your own attorney.

On July 8, 2008 Mary Lou, Shirley Pease’s sister were emailing back and forth and said that Cindy doesn’t think Casey is pregnant but Cindy she didn’t the first time either.

I’ve thought about the possibility of Casey being pregnant and if she was it would be her the third pregnancy in three years according to what Casey told Brandon Snow about a miscarriage on Valentines day.
____________________________________________________________

..lots to think about in your post “Pages”..

..i had forgotten that grandma and her sister mentioned an earlier pregnancy——and always thought kc was just playing “drama queen” with brandon—–can you imagine ?? kc—-pregnant THREE times??? ( excellent list of “possible” daddy’s..)

..she COULDN’T afford bond——the bounty hunter LP posted for her.

..interesting now ( that we know who’s who) that she could be talking to 2 people the same day ( in this case TL and AR ) and didn’t care what she said, since these particular people didn’t know one another.

..george hadn’t “been LE” for 25 years! who knows WHY they speak like they do ??

( i gave an example recently:
MY kids ” my mum and sister got out of the car and went into the house”.

anthony-speak: ” they exited the vehicle and then entered the residence”. ) w.e.i.r.d.

♫ ♪ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_iSIv26S_o

I may be harsh on Cindy, although I believe she loved her in her way, but I think Caylee was the light in George’s life.

..i agree, although i also think that cindy absolutely loved spending time with caylee ( without kc) , which was why she was so down during her vacation time , the 1st week of july, b/c she had been looking fwd. to it being just the 2 of them.

..in “the beginning” it seemed george was being truthful—-( LE, FBI interviews) , then—–he suddenly ‘lost his memory’, couldn’t wait to visit “gorgeous” “sweetheart” “princess” “beautiful” in jail….( i knew he was done for watching those jail interviews).

..therefore, my hope lies with lee——for the sake of his future ( and marriage ) i do think he’ll finally tell “the whole truth “.

I never have thought Cindy or George did anything but love Caylee to no end. I think the broken dysfunctional nature of the family led to what happened, but not because of a lack of love for Caylee from Cindy and George. Casey was not taught in bounds, was not taught appropriate behavior, and was not taught there are circumstances to your actions. And we see that she was “not taught” by example. Because I really don’t see Cindy (in particular) nor George exhibiting very much of these traits either.

My point was not that Cindy and George didn’t love Caylee. It was about priorities. In life and in death Casey was put before Caylee. They didn’t want to rock the boat so they didn’t examine where or how Caylee was spending her day, each day, with their daughter — who they knew was a thief and a liar. No contact number for any babysitter, no attention to her activities, pre-school maybe, plans for pre-school maybe, what was she eating, where was she sleeping, etc.

That’s all. I’m out.

Lily said: The only disconnect is WHEN did Cin & Geo let their critical thinking ’skills’ win over their heart and emotions? IMO it took a little bit longer than it took us – BECAUSE they loved her so much.

That does not give them a pass once the shock wore off.
********

My thoughts exactly.

The sticky wicket for me is, how did they go into ‘save Casey’ mode to the point that they did? Not ‘why’…they love their daughter, just as we love our own children, in spite of her failings. But what sort of thinking allowed them to go so far in the ‘wrong’ direction? That’s what puzzles me, because I do think I would love and support my son no matter what, but I know I wouldn’t obstruct justice for him or lie about the facts. More likely, I would remain silent and continue to love him while justice took its course.

I agree that ‘saving face’ is a huge deal for the Anthony family, but this goes beyond that, in my opinion.

One of the things that holds my attention in this case is, I don’t believe the Anthonys were evil, sick people with no morals or conscience. if that were the case, it was a foregone conculsion they would act in evil, sick ways. Instead, I think they were pretty average, with their own twisted family dysfunctions (as we all have in some way), which makes their behavior after the fact even more chilling. I think they were forced to make a choice when they reached a crossroad during the most horrific time in their life, and they took the darkest path. Again, just my opinion. I’m not giving them an inch on how they acted once they made that choice, just giving them some wiggle room before.

Thinking about Casey’s payments to her attorneys. Looks like she paid JB and AL a total of close to $100,000. Do we know where that money came from? Was is a private benefactor whose name will now be made public because she’s now considered indigent? And if so, what happened to the money received for the videos and pics of Caylee? We’ve all heard that she was paid $200,000 for those. So, was that money the source of income from which she paid her attorneys? She would have had to pay taxes on that money, right? So, after taxes, the net amount could possibly come close to what the attorneys were paid. Or are these two separate incomes? And if so, where’s the money for the pics?

On another subject, I cannot fathom the thought that after picking up the car with the death smell, G and C went home, cleaned up, didn’t Cindy say she had lunch?, and they both went back to work. No normal person smells death when their granddaughter is missing and continues on with their normal life as if nothing is wrong. That’s just NOT NORMAL. That’s when the cover-up started. That’s when they knew. And all Cindy could think about was talking to Casey to find out what happened. How could she?? No matter what Cindy’s gone through since July 2008, it’s not enough when you consider what she did that day. And George has to be the biggest wuss in the history of mankind. “Oh honey, even though we haven’t seen or talked to Caylee in a month, and Casey’s car smells like human decomposition, you just go on back to your security job and let me take care of this.” “OK honey. Whatever you say!” Unf___ing believable. He’s just as guilty as she is, imo.

Jennyb, I totally agree with your take on Cindy and George. It is clear that Cindy did not believe Casey was taking proper care of Caylee well before June 08. Cindy cared more about her power struggle with Casey than ensuring Caylee was safe and happy. IMO.

As of July 3, she admitted this publicly on MySpace. For her to do so, she must have been *extremely* worried, based on all the evidence we have that she would never acknowledge anything was wrong in the family.

She knew Caylee was in danger in Casey’s care and so did George. They both could have taken some action to prevent this, and the guilt is so overwhelming, they cannot do anything but defend Casey. Neither will ever admit what Casey did, no matter what the jury finds. To do so, would be to admit they could have and should have done more to protect Caylee.

Just my opinion, of course.

Val,

A snip of OS:

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/os-casey-anthony-evidence-20100310,0,3568882.story

“The State Attorney’s Office released DNA tests results and measurements from chromatographs this morning among a voluminous package of discovery evidence in the Casey Anthony case.

A chromatograph is a device that separates mixtures of substances, such as gases, into identifiable components.

Prosecutors delivered 10 discs of files as part of a public records disclosure, but many of the files released appear to be unreadable.

There is no context to the charts and graphs that are among the files.”

Val,

This is from Mr. Sheaffer’s blog… *sniff sniff*…

http://billsheaffer.wordpress.com/2010/03/03/interrogatories-queries-burning-questions/
craigatwftv said, on March 10, 2010 at 9:38 am
Prepare for disappointment… the evidence released today involves proprietary software so that means we won’t be able to post it. BUT, you wouldn’t want to bother. What few files would actually open are charts that would require an expert to read and nothing is labeled. Most of the files won’t even open, despite using the supplied software. WFTV sources have said the State Attorney’s Office and defense have also had problems accessing the information. We posted an example of one of the few files we could actually open here: http://www.wftv.com/news/22794649/detail.html

I have the software. Have no fear – we shall swim through the data!

Valhall said: { Mar 10, 2010 – 08:03:59 }

You are my “HERO”, or should I say ” SHEro” Val!!!! Thank you so very much!!!!
I am doing the dance now!!!!

» Valhall said: { Mar 10, 2010 – 08:03:59 }
[Unread Comment]

I have the software. Have no fear – we shall swim through the data!

*********************

Going for a dip in the “gene pool?”

(sorry, couldn’t resist!)

This is but one of the countless reasons The Hinky Meter and Val are the BEST!

» Valhall said: { Mar 10, 2010 – 08:03:59 } I have the software. Have no fear – we shall swim through the data!

————

Val, if anyone can, I know you can!

Happy swimming, guys. Gotta go. Medical, medical, again, today.

Doesn’t Casey have to prove that she is indigent??? How do we know how much money was paid to her from pics, etc., & how do we know whether or not any of that money was spent for the useless defense media tours? Does the state just take Baez’s word for it…..I am furious! What about future dollars for a book or movie deal….is the state going to require that Casey repay the state from any monies received from such?

» Valhall said: { Mar 10, 2010 – 08:03:59 } I have the software. Have no fear – we shall swim through the data!

———-
Val, you ROCK! (Putting on my lifejacket now… )

Val,

Is this statement made by Toni Pipitone true?

Casey Anthony: DNA results ‘no big deal,’ WKMG says
posted by halboedeker on March, 10 2010 12:24 PM
http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/entertainment_tv_tvblog/2010/03/casey-anthony-dna-results-no-big-deal-wkmg-says.html

The state’s release of DNA results today in the Casey Anthony case wasn’t that big a deal, TV reporters seemed to agree on noon newscasts. That development undoubtedly was a letdown for anyone following the case closely.

“We’ve already reported on the FBI lab’s take on this DNA evidence, which does not show Casey’s DNA on any of the evidence recovered from the scene where her daughter body’s was dumped and later found in December 2008,” WKMG-Channel 6’s Tony Pipitone said.

Anthony is charged with first-degree murder in the death of her daughter, Caylee. The murder trial is set to start in May 2011.

There was nothing new in the discovery, Pipitone stressed. “Bottom line: This is just one more piece of a puzzle that both sides will try to assemble in a way that benefits their side as they prepare for a trial,” Pipitone said.

“No big deal,” Pipitone summed up. But the story led WKMG’s noon newscast.

The story was also at the top of WESH-Channel 2’snoon newscast. WESH’s Bob Kealing held up discs and noted that some material required special software to open.

The latest in the Anthony case was challenge for reporters: The released material was extremely difficult to explain, but Pipitone provided clarity.

Valhall said:
“I have the software. Have no fear – we shall swim through the data!”

Val! For the win!!

Gosh, I love this site.

ooooh i knew it Val! Did anyone ever tell you you are the very bestest

..i was hoping we’d get the interview transcripts and other ‘juicy’ stuff that was on “the list” they showed us recently.

..apparently, it’s coming later.

http://www.wftv.com/news/22794649/detail.html

“As far as we know at this point, no one, maybe not even Casey, knows who Caylee’s father is. So far, none of the information Casey has provided about Caylee’s father has been substantiated.”

“There are more than a 1,000 pages of documents that have been provided to the defense recently that may be publicly released soon.”

New Evidence Released In Casey Anthony Case
Snip,
“The newly-released evidence comes just hours after the Orange County Clerk of Courts agreed that Anthony cannot afford to pay for her own defense; a judge will still have to make the final declaration of indigence.”
http://www.wftv.com/pdf/22799724/detail.html

I don’t think the Prosecution will want to alienate the jury at trial by being vicious to the child’s grandparents but they will manage to push the right buttons to bring out their true colors. Both G&C will require a lot of trial prep. because they are loose cannons and depending on Casey’s statements which the Defense will need to use, G&C could erupt either way, but I do feel safe predicting more than one “eruption” from their camp.

As I understand it, Cindy had no legal standing to bring against Casey other than an issue regarding permission to use the vehicle during their June 16-July 15th absence. If she chose to involve CPS (can’t recall the agency’s name in Fla.), she risked Caylee being removed from their home and another ugly battle with Casey not to mention incurring legal fees to try to gain custody of Caylee which would mean more financial responsibility to be held accountable for such as daycare (or else George would NEVER go to work). I’d bet she weighed these factors carefully at different times and it probably seemed overwhelming.

For the sake of arguendo, say that Cindy realized Casey’s character flaws and possibly recognized Casey was as socially mature as a 13 yr. old – knowing in her heart of hearts that Casey wasn’t responsible enough to parent Caylee. After falling in love with the baby, the best possible scenario would be to keep both of them under her watchful eye even if it meant more fighting. There seemed to be an aura of contention in the house for years – such was their lifestyle. They are not the only family that communicates through fighting (really).

Everyone living in that home was unhappy (ok, miserable if you ask me) and sooner or later something had to give. Casey was living under as much pressure as she was creating. She wanted out and the only way she knew was thinking she could trap a guy and the only bait that would work (in her crazy mind) was an infant. Whether Caylee was getting too old to successfully bait her trap or if she decided to erase Caylee and start over is something we’ll never know for sure, but in my opinion, getting a man, getting out of her mother’s control and getting even with her mother were the forces that drove Casey Anthony. everything and everyone else was collateral damage if she even considered it (which I doubt she has the capacity).

» Chat Lunatique said: { Mar 10, 2010 – 03:03:28 }

/cheer

/applause

/salute

Great post!

thanks, my friend.

@ William Hill-

ZOMG!! Dude! Where have you been? You totally missed all the excitement!

JWG sent us all to the moon with two stellar articles…and then Valhall sent me searching all over the blog for “wiped cookies” or sumthin’, which is silly ’cause I believe in the 5 second rule, no need to wipe the damb cookies… then it rained rocks and smashed coconuts…and then there was pie (coconut cream, yum) and after that we got some pretty boxes…on the blog side, little boxes made of “read-ie lack-ie, little boxes that go from yellow to gray…and I thought I saw someone’s leg’s sticking out from a pile of 2×4′s over in the dark corner…was that you under there?
Oh yeah…I think we’re all running away to a mountain in Oklahoma where there’s a Watchtower (Hendrix, not the religious publication) bring your swimmies, themed beach towel and your science books, ’cause we’re all going to dip in the gene pool!

I think that about sums it all up…Hey LOOK!! a Unicorn…

missed ya dude

I agree with whoever here said Cindy knew Casey was not a fit parent for Caylee and furthermore knew Casey wasn’t working whether she would admit that to herself or not. She also had to wonder where Casey was dragging Caylee day and night. Cindy has a sick problem with not ever wanting to confront Casey about anything and would not allow George to. There is no excuse for Cindy and George’s behavior before or after the disappearance/death of Caylee!! To whoever alluded to the fact that perhaps part of her defense will be, Cindy drove her to it – don’t know whether it will be used at trial, but IMO Cindy and George have a big responsibility in what has happened to Casey and Caylee!

I think I mentioned this in the later thread, I said I would look for it (Sheaffer’s blog). I never heard this theory before. I took the poster’s name out:

******** said, on March 9, 2010 at 8:59 am
Mr Sheaffer,
I have heard that the defense may use the tactic that Casey anthony suffers from a disorder of which that she “blacks out” for periods of time and doesnt remember anything. I also heard that they will say that casey was inside and did not notice that caylee went outside and when she went to find her, she couldnt. paniking, she called multiple people freaking out, but never talked to anyone because she knew she was suppose to be “at work” Do u think either of these defenses will hold up in court?

Closing this thread and starting a new one because it’s loading slow.