Miscellaneous Topics on the Caylee Marie Anthony Case – Part 2

William Hill,
Thank you very much!!!
I was asking those questions and you know why… the Anthony’s will be combative at trial… we had a little taste of that in their depositions in the civil case. They were practically nasty, in my opinion… no wonder why KC became what she became. George is used to lie and Cindy is manipulative and controlling person from what we had the chance to see so far. KC got away with things… I can picture Cindy in the hot seat, it won’t be pretty. Oh well!!!

From what the public has seen and heard from George and Cindy Anthony, is it really any wonder that Casey did not turn out any different than she has (murderous tendency aside)?

Cindy stated it best in one of her jailhouse phone conversations to Casey:

“You’re just like me”

Hi All – Lots of great stuff here for me to read and ponder as MD gets ready for its 2nd Nor’easter of the season. Val, glad to see you “weathered” your storm.

I put off viewing Casey’s check fraud hearing until last night. It wasn’t that I wasn’t interested, it was just that I didn’t feel like watching the car wreck of a defense. I wasn’t disappointed.

This hearing was the first time I really got to see Jose in action, and, I laughed! Laughed for joy! I wouldn’t hire him to argue a traffic ticket for me! Did anyone do an analysis of him? I made my other half watch this to give me his honest opinion, and the first thing he said was, “Casey’s crazy! Why didn’t she go for “No Contest?” My other half has no knowledge of law, and he, too, could see that JB couldn’t argue himself out of a paper bag. Then I had the pleasure of reading Bill Scheaffer’s blog today, and he said the very same thing.

JB came across to me as being insecure and nervous, and the Judge tired of him easily. Cutting him off mid sentence….not good! If the prosecution holds up, we have justice for Caylee! I bet eating my hat, and Val’s too, along with her socks, on that one!

I think that JB is so caught up in the media sensation of this trial, that he has completely forgotten how to Lawyer. This case is over his head, and it didn’t look to me like Andrea had a good guage on it, either. To be a good defense attorney, you have to know the players. I don’t see her CV as being something that the judge is impressed with, either. I think that Judge Strickland likes it real, and he has minimal patience for Team Casey. Her Goose is cooked…Get your forks ready, everyone!

Maryland Girl,
My mom was a paralegal for 25+ years. We watched the last hearing together. She nearly peed her pants laughing at Bozo’s “lack of vocabulary”. She said he acted like this was his first trial. Totally inept to say the least. She said if KC’s parents truly loved her unconditionally, they should have found her a competent attorney. Anyone would be better than Bozo. …………..

No, no, no, no!!! Mr. B. is a crackerjack lawyer! A mighty legal talent and Casey is lucky to have him!

I think she FOUND him in a box of crackerjacks, actually.

Okay, now to be real…

Jose is still pretty green in the lawyering department, no doubt about that. Lyon is not. Do not mistake her somewhat disorganized demeanor for incompetence. She has done some competent work before and is capable of doing so here as well. Of course, her main goal is simple to keep Casey alive in the end. If they can do that, then she will count it a win.

The bad-one is also no slouch in the courtroom when she puts her mind to it. I would not count her out either. She is capable of surprising you now and then.

Still, Casey stands no chance at all in my opinion. It wouldn’t matter if she had the original dream team from OJ. Her goose is still going to be cooked….

With Casey, I believe that she views herself as JB’s peer, his assistant, and most of all his girlfriend. In her mind I think she replaced him as the object of her single minded focus. Doesn’t matter a bit that he’s about all she can do right now, when she was out on bond she spent hours everyday in his office, the too familiar touching, the non verbal glances and giggles during court proceedings, it all adds up to me that she is devoted to him.
Sometimes I’m not so sure that he doesn’t encourage this. The isolation that she puts up with could be by her choice but I think it’s by his order. Until Lyons came on board and took over ‘comforting’ kc, it was him. She wouldn’t really have any gauge to decide if he was/is competent. That she has no contact with outsiders ensures that nobody can give her even a niggle of a doubt about his courtroom non prowess. seems all very controlled and with his unfounded narcissism I’m betting that there’s a whole lot of unrealistic chest beating and not a lot of harsh facts when he visits.
This is just my gut feeling on it, way too weird.

Please pardon my ignorance, however, does anyone know if Casey has access to the newspaper(s) while incarcerated?

I wonder about this, as I too, feel that she has no idea how ineffective her team is – especially Jose. For example, if it weren’t for the SAO stating in open court that the defense has filed an ‘improper motion’, etc., Casey would not have- and/or doesn’t know, how ineffective, unprofessional, etc., her defense is.

It appears to me that Casey is ‘awestruck’ by Jose…enough to where she believes everything that comes out of his mouth (even moreso, since the only visitors she has are part of the defense team), who in all probability don’t/won’t badmouth Jose – lease of all to Casey.

In this last hearing, I noticed that when ‘Mr. George’ stated to the judge, that in all probability, “Casey will be spending the rest of her life in prison”, the camera panned over to Casey – with her face beet red, and AL and JB are apparantly asking Casey if she’s ok (my interpretation)…It irks me to see them coddling Casey, as if she’s some 6 year old child, that must be shielded from something unpleasant – or unjust.

It is clearly evident, that Casey does not take to hearing ‘reality’ too well (as is also evidenced when Jeff Ashton gave her a smackdown with his accounting of Caylee’s murder details).
With this type of behaviour and reaction from Casey, when and IF this trial gets underway, AL and JB are going to be spending the majority of their time coddling Casey- as she is going to have to listen to a steady stream of ‘truth’s’ about herself from witnesses for the prosecution, in addition to viewing, BLOWN UP PHOTOS of Caylee’s remains.

I still cannot envision Casey sitting through an entire trial, while being FORCED to listen to others reduce her (into words), to the monster that she is.

I – J-u-s-t – c-a-n-t- s-e-e-i-t.

JMO

Very perceptive, MJ. Male attention is something she CANNOT be without, not for five fat minutes, they are all supposed to consider themselves fortunate to be in her orbit.

Winterbelle~ I can’t see it either! How can they pay attention to what’s going on, prepare for comments, rebuttals and all that if she will need constant stroking? Maybe some pretty earmuffs would help?

Karen C~ right, KC has to have that testosterone ego boost at all times. Look how many dudes she was coaxing along, old guys, new guys, some at the same time, she’s a piece of work. JB is just as foolish. He thinks his bad boy persona is hot stuff but in the legal world it usually only works in your favor if you’ve got some real talent along with it, He don’t got it! Not by a long shot.

MJ:

Speaking of stroking – as was visible, Casey had her hair up (and away from her face) during this last court hearing. Upon seeing this, I wondered if it was deliberate,as I’m sure (and Jose has proven), he does know what’s being said/written out there (by us ‘no life bloggers’ – per Cindy).

Much has been said and written about the continuous (OCD?), obsession Casey has with her hair (when worn down, around her face), and how it is interpreted by many (including me), how ‘vain’ Casey is about her appearance (even/especially, in open court facing MURDER charges).

I must admit, that I watched her closely, during the last hearing, to see if she would ‘pat her hair, first left- then right, then repeat’, (argh), of which she didn’t (unless I missed it). Since she didn’t, this tells me that, she does this only when her hair is in a free fall style/loose,(and subject to a ‘hair outta place’, if you know what I mean.

This leads me to believe that her hair worn up, was a deliberate and calculated effort from her defense, to prevent her from constantly ‘fixing her hair’ (and thus, helping her ‘image’ so to speak).

In addition, there is also much said and written about how Casey wrings the living daylight outta ONE tissue, wiping fake tears, staring at the tissue, wiping with her finger, staring at said finger, etc. (and repeat).

During this last hearing, after Jose, Andrea and Casey returned to the defense table, AL got up to speak, and the camera remained on Casey (wiping, staring, repeat), I noticed that Jose had the most UNCOMFORTABLE body language ever…he KNEW Casey was STILL wiping, staring, wringing tissue, etc. (with the camera focused on her).
For a split second, he turns to his right, towards Casey, and it appears he is going to say something to her, then turns to face, and /or listen to what Andrea is saying/declaring to the judge.
If I didn’t know better, I could almost bet he wanted to tell her to freaking stop with the steps 1.2.3 and repeat (as he knows the public is watching).

Just wondering if anyone else noticed Jose’s body language during the time (eternity), that Casey spent wiping, staring, etc., once they returned to the defense table…

Now, if he would only pay attention to what we all write about his ‘humm, awww, hum’.

Okay, I feel better now – since I’ve gotten the above off my chest.

OMG Winterbelle…. I did notice! But you really hit it with the pony tail thing. That hadn’t even popped in my mind but you’re right.
Yeah, the tissue thing was extremely out there and now I see, it is the same pattern. Wipe, look, wipe, look, very good call! She’s definitely got some ocd tendancies, the hair, the tissues, the hand rubbing, shirt tucking

As far as Baez, he doesn’t deserve our helpful critique. He needs remedial law classes asap however he’s just so darned entertaining just like he is, I’d hate for him to change!

One last thing about the odd relationship between them. If we all notice these habits and traits, JB notices and tries to get her to stop, AL uses hands on to deflect her tendency to rear up/ bristle/ angry face…….it further advances my theory that they long ago KNEW that if kc had ANY contact with basically anyone, she can’t control her body, so I bet she can’t control her mouth. I think they know that one of them needs to be with her at all times “public”. That’s pretty damning, not in a legal sense, but in the you and I world.

MJ-

Regarding the ponytail and reasoning behind it, it is sheer speculation on my part.

As per Jose being entertaining, I agree, he does put the ‘E’ in uhhh, hmmm, uhhh, entertainment.

I think you got it right, speculation and all!
Should get interesting in the next few days with all the rampant speculation about the State’s request, hope we get some facts soon

..regarding dom. casey, i read over on b.shaeffer’s blog , a post by Sosad:

..he’s relocating, has changed his phone number..

…i wonder when he did this..

http://dgator.com/contactus.aspx
” To better serve our Client’s D&A is currently relocating its office. Our Telephone/Fax services are being transferred/changed they will be down during this period, please use email or our temporary number, we apologize for any inconvenience . . .!”

Hope I am not too far off topic with these questions and I hope they are not too incidental to the case.

On the other thread concerning the flurry of calls, someone reiterated that Cindy forced Casey into keeping Caylee. I suppose having to keep the baby at Cindy’s whim could explain Casey “entitlement” to sponge off her parents, and leave Cindy with the bulk of the baby sitting. I’ve had trouble with that theory for the following reasons:

1.) Cindy not allowing the baby to be adopted was a story told by Casey to her friend, Kio Marie, who was very interested in taking the baby. Do we have any other verification that Cindy forbade the adoption…any proof or statement from anyone else which did not come initially from Casey?

All we have in this direction is Cindy’s July 3rd lament in which she says she promised Casey “that everything would be all right and it was. ” Not exactly proof that Cindy wouldn’t allow an adoption agreement pre-birth. It may have been just a consolation for Casey that they’d get through it, somehow, if Casey wanted to keep the baby.

Casey later told Jesse that giving up their baby for adoption “was not an option”. But she was talking about his baby, too, supposedly. He didn’t say that Cindy was the determining factor in keeping the child. ( Although, I know that by that time Cindy had fallen in love with Caylee. and losing her would have been unthinkable. She didn’t want him in Casey or Caylee’s life.)

2.) Casey loved attention and needed to be the center of attention. Her firend, Ryan, said Casey had a bad case of “one up-manship”. In all things, she had to do her friends one better. Being mysteriously pregnant with a vague baby daddy certainly fitted Casey’s dramatic view of her life. Also, pretty young mothers get a lot of attention with their babies and babies appeared to be a rarity in her set. She would stand out as that hard-working, successful single mom.

3.) If Casey didn’t want the baby, why did she wait until seven months along to do anything about the pregnancy and then still claim to Cindy that it was a tumor? At uncle Rick’s wedding, she was not ashamed to be popping out with a basketball mound under her shirt, and giggled coyly when asked about it. Meanwhile, her parents were busily denying the whole thing. Casey had a tumor.

You don’t giggle about a possible tumor! And you don’t ignore it, either, by not going to the doctor. You can, howeve, giggle about some secret you’re enjoying and looking forward to for some reason.

4.) Most likely, in my view, is that Casey wanted to get away from her family and was looking around for a means to get a place of her own without having to work. Being pregnant, and later being able to snare the baby daddy–the real one or a substitute– to take her away and give her independence from Cindy, depended on her going through with the pregnancy and, later, keeping that baby. It didn’t work as well as she’d planned, but she did finally snare Jesse Grund.

Interestingly, his father said Casey became disenchanted when she learned that Jesse could not afford a home of their own. Casey would have had to end up living with the Grunds. And she found them probably as controlling as her own parents…besides which, they were religious. No thanks!

I never believed that she felt Jesse loved Caylee more that he loved her. That sounds like a Caseyism to easily get out of jail, free!

Guess what I am saying is that I don’t necessarily believe it was Cindy who wouldn’t allow the adoption. Casey was jobless, single, bound to Cindy, increasingly bored and frustrated with motherhood and without a promising male who would marry her with a child. It made a heckuva good tale to blame Cindy for Caylee’s existence in her life.

Was she just spreading the word that she had never really had a choice about motherhood, but was forced into it by Cindy who longed to have another child to support at age fifty? Maybe to explain her less than full committment to Caylee? Maybe to hint that the door was wide open for a late adoption? Anyone want a kid? Drat! Cindy won’t allow it. Sigh. I am such a martyr!

I imagine in Casey’s spoiled-child world, her parents were pretty much to blame for most of her disappointments so why not blame Cindy for an experiment that didn’t work out to Casey’s plans or benefit? Just my posing a few thoughts. I could be way off base.

MsEnscene~ great post
I never read any other person saying that about adoption other than KIOMARIE either, but there could have been. It’s really hard to know what is true.
Just a minute ago I was trying to verify that the dgator.com site did in fact have the message that they were relocating. It did say that. But while I was there I reread the William waters interview. He gave an interesting description of her. I didn’t realize that he was yet another in her line of potential boyfriends. Another very curious thing he mentioned was that he had said something about her never going to work, she said that THEY just send me the pictures and I work on them on the computer.
Was that a lie or did she really do some kind of pic work, remember on here some time back the discussion of the altered picture of Caylee??
Sometimes I think there is something that hasn’t surfaced yet and other times I have to believe we are getting a birds eye view of her daily fabricated life and nothing more than that.
Anyway you made some good casey observations, she’s interesting to me, trying to figure her out.

Casey brought Caylee came into this world under a cloud of suspicion, lies and deceit – and unfortunately- took her out under the same conditions.

I’ve never felt the following about anyone in my entire 49 yrs. – however, to merely think about how Caylee was discarded (let alone ‘how’ she must have perished), I can honestly say, I would not want to be in the same room with Casey – breathing the same air.

I have never, or since, felt this way about anyone.

One last comment before I log off to catch some z’s…

I struggle to imagine what Tony L. thinks or FEELS, when he inevitably casts his memory back to the ‘blockbuster’ night (or subsequent nights), having been ‘intimate’ with Casey, possibly mere hours, after her having used her evil hands to carry out her evil misdeed – and using / placing those same hands on him.

If I shudder at the thought, I can almost imagine what & how, he must feel…

Tony HAS to have some real creepy thoughts about all that.
In that William waters interview he said she talked non stop, always about her, but constantly and that she was talking to him as she was waiting , going up the escalator to meet Tony at the airport after his trip. Casey was still spending the night with Ricardo in that timeframe also.So when Tony reads all these things, it must blow his mind that she was so easily deceptive and cunning. It must be like looking in the devil’s face, I don’t think you could ever forget what evil she did.
In his other moments he probably is savvy enough to realize he was about one degree away from getting caught up in the blame game. He was very lucky.

knowing what we know now——-that kc did not have a job.
..therefore had no need for a nanny.
..when she “WENT” to her “pretend job” AKA hanging out with friends—–what did she do with caylee? she just hung out too?

..we’ve seen pictures of caylee just sitting on the couch—-while kc plays guitar hero, etc.
..didn’t she have friends who ALSO had little ones, so caylee could PLAY with them ?

..( i recall one interview, a friend saying they had a playdate) (yay kc, caylee’s practically 1000 days old—–and you take her over for 1- 2 playdates? in all of that time..)

..a 2 year old, basically hanging out with KC and her 20-something friends…..day after day after day after day…….that’s sad.

..reading the timeline—kc’s “playdates” in ONE week exceed caylee’s in her entire life.

Crackerjack lawyer, LOL!!!! Maybe his business cards also line the bottom of the jalapeno dip cans in the clinker….:::::

No doubt about it, Andrea brings a lot to the table, but a lot of her time is spent in the classroom, not “in the trenches” in the courtroom. Compare to an actor playing the role of a soldier, to an actual soldier hiding in a ditch getting shot at. Big difference. I think they both need to practice with a few mock trials before they bring Casey in front of a jury.

Casey is so busy wrapped in her warped thoughts, that even if she could read a paper or this blog or any others about her representation, I truly believe it wouldn’t sink in. Her parents are not paying for her attorney. This is all on her. It was truly wonderful watching her not even bat an eyelash as her attorney was babbling and falling apart in front of the judge. She’ll keep him for whatever reason. Girly crush, etc. because she can’t see out of that crackerjack box that is her pathetic existence. I totally agree with Leanord’s assistant Tracey, who said that Casey couldn’t see her life past 10 minutes. I find it completely plausible that she suffocated Caylee, and then went on her merry way in less than an hour. I think about Tony, as well as Casey’s other friends (victims)too. I hope they all thrive in life and have learned to make better choices in relationships because of this experience, tragic as it is.

Morning Val, morning everybody!!!

WinterBelle,
There is good analysis made by body expert language Dr. Lillian Glass on the last hearing, if you would like to read:
http://drlillianglassbodylanguageblog.wordpress.com/2010/01/26/casey-anthony’s-body-language-in-court-reflects-phony-non-tears-fake-sniffles-and-an-empty-apology/
http://drlillianglassbodylanguageblog.wordpress.com/2010/01/31/casey-anthony-voice-speech-lying/

I keep thinking about how she did an internet search for chloroform and all. If she looked on the internet for that…it makes me wonder if she used someones computer to look for “how to remove decomposition smell” or something close to that wording. I hope they checked all computers she could have used. And I wonder if they could get more video from the stores she went to…to see if she was reading the labels of a bunch of cleaning products. Just a thought.

Val,
Any chance you can do a piece on what everyday life is like for Casey now? Her “schedule” so to speak. I have no clue what she has acces to as far as the outside world or what her days are like? Sadly, i don’t think she minds any of this. She is getting all the attention she wants and in her mind she is famous!!

MsEnscene,

A couple of things jumped out at me in your long post at 01:02:07.

Casey did claim to KioMarie that Cindy would not permit adoption. I don’t know if there is any truth to that, but Cindy said adoption was never even discussed. Maybe when Casey talked to KioMarie and KioMarie said she would adopt the baby, Casey hadn’t yet admitted to her parents that she was pregnant and really was considering adoption. When Casey told her parents and Cindy was supportive, Casey either cooked up the “my mother won’t let me give the baby up” story, or else Casey said “my mother said we’ll be keeping the baby” and KioMarie simply misunderstood.

Casey’s pregnancy was confirmed sometime around late June. Casey contacted Jesse around early July according to Richard Grund, and Jesse said he suggested adoption on the grounds that they weren’t ready to be parents. Casey was firm at that point that adoption was not an option she would consider, but by the time she spoke to Jesse, Cindy knew about the pregnancy and was supportive.

IMO, the “adoption” confusion could have everything to do with the timing of the conversations: when KioMarie offered to adopt the baby, Casey had not yet talked to Cindy, but by the time Jesse suggested adoption, Casey knew she had Cindy’s support in keeping the baby.

Also, just making the note that Casey and Jesse had the adoption talk in July, and Caylee was not born until August. Cindy did not meet Jesse until the day of Caylee’s birth. My point (relative to your comment) is that Cindy’s love for Caylee and Cindy’s desire to keep Jesse out of Casey’s and Caylee’s lives were not issues during the time Casey and Jesse had the chat about putting the baby up for adoption.

**

Casey never claimed the baby was a tumor; she said she was bloated from unspecified female problems. It was Cindy’s brother Rick who told Cindy in June 2005 (at his wedding) that if Casey wasn’t pregnant, then Cindy better get Casey to a doctor asap because she must have a massive tumor.

**

I do not recall Richard Grund’s saying Casey “became disenchanted when she learned that Jesse could not afford a home of their own.” What Richard said is that Casey was desperate to get out of the Anthony house and tried to talk Jesse into getting an apartment so that they could live together before they were married, but Richard told Jesse that if Jesse lived with Casey before they were married that Richard would not perform the wedding ceremony. Richard said if he hadn’t threatened Jesse, Jesse no doubt would have done what Casey wanted.

Interesting that D Casey is taking himself off the radar, in a sense, with a move. Does it mean anything in re to the delay motion?:

http://blinkoncrime.com/2010/01/25/cayleecasey-anthony-case-plea-sans-adjudication-in-court-today/#comments
#26.
Thinker says:
February 4, 2010 at 10:53 pm
The same time that the State has “new” information and material that they do NOT want to release to the Defense or the public in Discovery ….. P.I. Dominic is MOVING out, with no forwarding address or permanent phone number!!!!
http://dgator.com/contactus.aspx
To better serve our Client’s D&A is currently relocating its office. Our Telephone/Fax services are being transferred/changed they will be down during this period, please use email or our temporary number, we apologize for any inconvenience . . .!
Mailing Address:
Post Office Box _________???
Longwood, Florida 32779
Phone: 407.448.4565 (Temporary)
Seems to me that this new development is related to Dominic somehow …. he is a “business man” with a Private Investigators business to run, and probably has other clients besides the Anthonys ….. yet he posts on his BUSINESS website that he is up and MOVING to an undisclosed location (no new address given – only a P.O. box with no P.O. NUMBER), with a “temporary” phone number. He asks his “clients” to contact him by EMAIL or the new “temporary” number. Very shady, in my opinion. Normally, a business which is moving, will post the NEW ADDRESS immediately, so as not to lose any customers in the transition.

Maura

Adding to your post, Casey had a history of blaming outside forces for reasons why she couldn’t do something. I can’t come because ” my dad had a stroke”, for one example.

Hi all – first time I’ve posted. I like this thread because everyone has some insight.

What I wanted to add to the discussion is what Cindy said to LE in one or more of her recorded interviews: “I can always tell when Casey is lying if I look right into her eyes. I’ve always been able to tell when she’s lying.”

First of all, this is an admission that Casey lies a lot. But she kept looking Casey in the eye after Caylee’s disappearance, and still believed Casey was telling the truth. Sooooo . . . I think that Casey learned fairly early in her life that the way to lie and get away with it was to make herself believe with all her heart that she was telling the truth. Then, Cindy would fall for it.

Jesse G. even said in one interview – can’t find it now – that he thought that Caylee died accidentally and “Casey made up a story and made herself believe it”.

That’s why she’s such a good liar. Cindy taught her indirectly that all you have to do is believe your own lies.

Another thing I’ve observed about here from watching the jail video visits. When her parents asked about some of her shadier statements, she would do a couple of things, probably out of long habit. First, deny. If they kept pressing, change the subject. If that doesn’t work, get angry. As soon as she would snap at them they would back right down and start COMFORTING her. KC tried this trick with LE but it didn’t work. She’d show some temper, expecting them to say “ok, ok, I’m sorry”.

Has anyone else seen that tendency of hers? Obviously long-standing habits of manipulation.

They will have to sedate Casey come trial time. She almost erupted when Mr. George described what he believed happened to Caylee…There is no way in h-e double hockey sticks, that Casey will be able to sit there,day after day,hour after hour and be composed while witness after witness,photo after photo,fact after fact etc is thrown in her face. She is going lose it BIG time!!!! And Cindy, that will be a treat to see her on the stand. Her and her indignent attitude. I wonder how many times she will be held in contempt before they just lock her up. There is no way she will be respectful and not be confrontational and sling her belittling comments. A circus is a coming!

Just opinion on my part, but any woman who does not acknowledge their pregnancy after it is so advanced it has become physically obvious to casual observers, isn’t keeping it a ’secret’ because they don’t want to keep the baby. A scared young girl would tell someone by that point, and get help in seeking out a solution such as adoption.

I would wonder if it was more a matter of keeping it ’secret’ until she reached a stage where she COULDN’T be made to give it up. After all, in the mind of a young girl, what better way to get lots of attention than to have a sweet, cuddly infant? I would venture to say many, if not most, 18 year old girls don’t think much beyond the baby shower and the itty bitty outfits, and by 7 months she could surely claim an emotional attachment that won’t allow her to give her baby up. Plus, it’s a big hammer to hold over ‘daddy’s’ head (or in this case, ‘designated daddy’. She gets the attention, she gets a man who ‘owes’ her and her baby a living, and it’s only when the fawning stops and the parenting starts that it ceases to be fun.

It doesn’t seem to me that doing something as altrusitic as giving away a baby to a friend so that the child has a better life is in Casey Anthony’s book on living right. I don’t believe she would have considered giving her child up when there was so much ‘benefit’ to be gained from having her. I think it is possible she could have made the comment about giving her baby up (if she did indeed make the comment) without thinking any more of it beyond the immediate ’she’ll like me if I say I’ll consider letting her adopt the baby’. Momentary ‘love’ without doing anything to earn it is what Casey seems to be all about.

I agree with posts about Casey not being able to keep her cool. Watching her sob her way through the death-penalty hearing made me think for the first time that she might plea out, realizing that she can’t take it. But frankly I think that Bozo is going to keep telling her not to do that. He’s giving her a pretty wretched defense; has probably been telling her since Day One that he can get her off, and NEVER PREPARED HER for what it was going to be like to sit in a courtroom day after day getting savaged. “Don’t worry, it will never come to trial, our job is to keep it from coming to trial.” Of course, that was before they had found Caylee’s body. At that point, you’d think they might have URGED her to plead! Bozo is so arrogant he still thought he could get the charges dropped.

» Nikki B. said: { Feb 5, 2010 – 10:02:39 }
Nikki

I respectfully disagree. I think that he tried to get her to accept a plea ( early on). I believe Casey is not willing to, at least not up to and at this point. There is something in the wording (paraphrasing) but ” my client said will not plea”, etc tells me what is going on. Plus we had that crazy statement, that was completely unnecessary about ” the state is trying to force me to take a plea” (paraphrase) way back when. It was in Casey’s writing and sounded like ‘her voice’. He probably shouldn’t have let that in, but it is clear that she is steering the boat on that issue.

Nikki

Plus, it is counter to the way that Andrea Lyons ( is it Lyon or Lyons?) generally operates.
There is NO WAY that A Lyons would not have put forth the option of a plea to Casey, no way.

Another question I’ve been pondering, I hope someone knows the answer. If a defense attorney knows that their client is guilty, is it ethical to continue defending them? It seems like a gray area, because the job of the defense is to convince a jury that the evidence does not prove guilt, not necessarily to convince them that their client is innocent. Baez has said repeatedly that “Ms. Anthony is innocent.” So if he believes (or strongly suspects) that she did it, and it’s hard to believe that he doesn’t, is it ethical to keep insisting that she is innocent?

Nikki – Our judicial system says that a person is “innocent” until “proven guilty”. Jose’s job is to cast “reasonable doubt” to a jury in the hope that the jury would find his client “not guilty”. So, whether or not he personally believes her guilt or innocence, doesn’t come in to play, as he’s doing the job he’s supposed to do. Whether or not he’s convincing when he says, “Miss Anthony” is innocent, is a different issue, and not a matter of ethics. Being unethical would be bribing the judge or jury to say his client is innocent, things like that.

If you go to http://www.wftv.com, click on the Casey Anthony tab and read Bill Schaeffer’s blog. He’ll give you a good education on the defense strategy, etc.

Valhall: I know this is off topic, now that CMA will be serving time, is there any hope of moving her out of her private cell into general population? I have read many times that she is in a private cell to protect her due to all of the media attention- however I seriously doubt every high profile suspect is in a private cell?
Thank you

There is no gray area in the law on ethics here. So long as you do not KNOW something definitively, it is NOT true. Suspecting something is not enough, and the benefit of all doubts belong to the client/defendant. So you can still claim innocence if you do not know 100% that she is guilty. If you do know 100% that she is guilty, then you are perpetrating a fraud on the court to say that she is innocent (although, for most purposes, there is no practicable way to prove that a client confessed something like this to an attorney since the client cannot be compelled to tell about it and the attorney cannot be compelled to tell about it).

Bottom line, it is a non-issue in practice since there is almost no way to prove it.

Just my two cents – I am not a lawyer….

I think Silver covered this to include, something like, if your client confessed, you can not suborn perjury counter to that,

I doubt that Casey would have told her attorney that she was guilty. I doubt that she will ever admit this to anyone. Remember she lies even when there is no possibility that the people that she is lying to believe her any longer. She lies and lies and lies and then lies some more….

Jails have areas and procedures for protective custody where they put people for many reasons, including being a snitch and being in danger because of the type of crime that you are charged with or being in danger because of gang activities. I do not think it is a hardship on the jail to keep her in such an area and I suspect that she will continue to be held in this manner.

William – Definitely agree that Casey hasn’t told anyone anything. I do, however, respectfully disagree about whether defense attorneys in general must not represent their client if they know they’re guilty. If that were the case, every defense attorney would be in jail right now! Just my two cents, too, as I’m not a lawyer, either.

You can defend them, but you cannot perpetrate a fraud on the court – so, if you know that they are guilty then you cannot allow them to take the stand and say that they are not guilty, for example. you cannot stand mute and let them tell a judge that they are innocent during a hearing if they have told you they are guilty. You still can defend them though. You just have to do so differently….

Exactly, you can’t suborn perjury.

I believe that the fraud sentence would be “time served” already so she wouldn’t be moved to serve time for that…

It might have been Richard Hornsby that said at one point that Baez is doing his client a disservice by insisting she is “innocent” instead of “not guilty”. There’s a big difference; innocent means “someone else did it”, whereas “not guilty” obviously means “the evidence doesn’t prove she did it”. Come to think of it, he’s stopped insisting on her innocence and now says “not guilty”. Maybe he didn’t know the difference himself.

If a client tells their attorney that they are guilty, isn’t that statement protected under attorney-client privilege? If the client goes up on the stand and says, “I am Innocent”, that is an opinion, and not up to the defendant, but up to the jury to decide with the facts presented to them. However, if an attorney tells a witness to provide false testimony as part of the defense of a client, I can understand that suborning perjury. An attorney telling a client to state they are innocent, as I understand, would not be suborning perjury, but is part of the courtroom process.

It seemed like Dom Casey was “laying low” – but now it sounds like he might be in a Witness Protection program. Until 2011 at least.

Excerpted from Harron’s Law Dictionary, 3rd Ed.:
“Reasonable Doubt is the degree of certainty required in order for a juror to legally find a criminal defendant guilty. Innocence is to be presumed unless guilt is so clearly proved that the jury can see that no “reasonable doubt” remains as to the guilt of the person charged. The proof must be so conclusive and complete that all reasonable doubts of the fact are removed from the mind or the ordinary person.”

“Attorney-Client Privilege encompasses communications between the attorney and cleint in the course of the professional relationship and cannot be disclosed without the consent of the client. Its purpose is to encourage full and frank communication . . . and thereby promote broader public interests in the observance of law and administration of justice. The privilege recognizes that sound legal advice or advocacy serves public ends and that such advice or advocacy depends on the lawyer’s being fully informed by the client. 449 U.S. 383, 389.

If 3rd parties (including relatives and friends, but excluding law clerks, stenographers or interpreters) are present, the privilege may be destroyed. 564 S.W. 2d 579, 582.

The privilege extends indefinitely and does not terminate when the attorney/client relationship ends or when either party dies.”

Ooops, that should read from the mind of the ordinary person.

» Maryland Girl said: { Feb 5, 2010 – 12:02:48 }
NOTE:I don’t know how accurate the second source is

http://www.criminal-defense-lawyers.org/perjury.htm

Perjury, in criminal law, willful false statement made under oath with respect to a material matter, either in a legal proceeding, as by a witness at a trial, or in matters in which an oath is authorized or required by law, as in an affidavit affecting title to property.
To constitute perjury in a legal proceeding it is not necessary that the offender know the statement would affect the determination of the case in which it is uttered; it is sufficient if the statement might have affected such a proceeding. A misstatement by a witness, made through inadvertence or mistake, does not, however, constitute perjury. A violation of a promissory oath, as, for example, the oath of office taken by a judge, does not warrant prosecution for perjury.
In most states of the U.S., perjury is a misdemeanor; in others it is a felony. Corroboration of the falsity of the statement is necessary to convict an offender; perjury cannot be proved by the statement of a single witness. Willfully procuring another person to commit perjury constitutes the crime of subornation of perjury. Even an unsuccessful attempt to suborn is a criminal offense.
If you of someone you know has been accused of perjury, you or that person need immediate assistance. Call us or click here to find a qualified criminal defense attorney in your area.
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080614065714AAsXcOW
Q)A DEFENDANT WHO TAKES THE WITNESS STAND MUST CONFESS IF THE PROSECUTOR ASKS DIRECTLY, “DID YOU DO IT?”
Prosecutors ask this question all the time and guilty defendants lie about it all the time. But it’s a separate crime of perjury. In fact, the defense lawyer cannot put the defendant on the stand if they know the defendant is guilty because that would be the crime of suborning perjury. Defense attorneys do not generally ask the defendant if they did it precisely for that reason. Instead, they get the defendant’s story and ask about what the prosecutor will accuse him of and what evidence is out there. The defense attorney is required to believe their client and extend them the benefit of all doubt (not just reasonable doubt), but if they KNOW the defendant did it, they cannot put the defendant on the stand because it would be a crime for the defendant to lie when asked “Did you do it?”.

Thanks, Chat!

With that, if there is a confession, the defendant can still plead not guilty, but the defense attorney, having heard the confession, can not by law, put him or her on the stand and elicit a “I am innocent” response from the confessed individual. That is suborning perjury.

It is also suborning perjury ,to know the true circumstances of the events of the crime, but then put the defendant on the stand and to elicit a story that is not truthful.

WSH – I understand better now….Thank you!

Back to thoughts on Andrea and Jose and the recent hearing….

It also struck me as odd that Andrea did not look mortified while Jose was miserably making his argument to the judge. I wonder if they are confident that under the magic of Andrea that they’ll win this one on appeal? They can delay, delay, delay….but that’s not going to change the facts of forensics. While not strong, the science here is not going to forget or die, especially if the fatty analysis comes back as positive in the trunk liner stain. Either their arrogance is blinding them, or they have something else up their sleeve. And if that something else up their sleeve is blame it on Roy, I think that’s really weak, too. I can’t wrap my head around it.

I have a question…………..What was DC supposed to do with the remains if he found them?

Sue – good question, i have no idea because you would think if he was there to make them dissapear for good he would not have been video taping…

Maybe he was making a point Not to find her and the video was supposed to prove she was not there before Casey was locked up? I remember the clip of the video that i saw was close but not the same area the remains were actually found.

In our system, the prosecution bears 100% of the burden in convincing the jury that the defendant is guilty of the crime for which he or she is charged. It’s the job of the defense counsel to challenge every bit of the state’s evidence so that the defendant, if convicted, is not deprived of property (fines), liberty (imprisonment), or life (execution) unless the government’s case holds up after a vigorous challenge in a public trial during which the defendant has the right to face his or her accusers and view the evidence.

None of that changes if the attorney believes the defendant is guilty or even knows with 100% certainty that the defendant is guilty because the defendant confessed in a protected conversation. It is still the constitutionally-mandated job of the defense attorney to challenge the government’s case on behalf of the defendant. That is the attorney’s ethical duty under the law.

Even if the defendant has made a true confession to LE as Susan Smith did, it is still legally ethical for the defendant to enter a plea of not guilty and go to trial and for the defense attorney to advocate for the defendant against the charges. Why that is still ethical has to do with nuances such as the narrowness of the definition of the crime, degrees of guilt relative to any special circumstances that could diminish the defendant’s responsibility for his or her actions, etc. In other words, it’s a situation in which the defendant might be saying, ‘I’m not 100% guilty of the worst-case interpretation of statute XXXX.”

It’s partly in that context that I view the public statements of Casey’s lawyers when they claim she is innocent. Innocent of precisely what? Casey will be tried for seven separate counts in her “murder” trial: first degree murder, aggravated child abuse, aggravated manslaughter of a child, and four counts of providing false information to law enforcement. So do they mean they believe she is innocent of premeditated murder? Of aggravated child abuse? Of manslaughter? Of any action that directly resulted in Caylee’s death? They never say and they’re never asked.

As for what Casey IS guilty of . . . Mark NeJame said in November 2008 that Casey Anthony is the only person in the world who knows what happened to Caylee, and the rest of us have opinions about what happened. I believe that is still true because I don’t believe Casey has confessed to anything. In March 2009, in a sworn affidavit in which she denied having any contingency agreement with Jose Baez, Casey included a hand-written message: “I believe that Mr. Ashton is angry because I have refused to take a plea agreement for a crime that I DID NOT COMMIT.”

IMO, she has never wavered from her claim that she is 100% innocent and just as much a victim as Caylee. Good lawyers are going to try to get the best possible outcome for their clients, but they have to play the hand their clients dealt them. If Casey demands a defense theory that maintains her innocence in Caylee’s death . . .

I’ve heard a number of defense lawyers and prosecutors on the talk shows criticize Casey’s lawyers for making public claims of her innocence; however, the “innocence” claims weren’t criticized for being unethical but for being idiotic. The general drift was that Baez and company are painting themselves into a corner strategically because claiming she is innocent sets up expectations that the defense will prove Casey’s innocence at trial. The better claim would be that she is not guilty of the charges.

Rob Dicks Police interviews seem to have dropped off the face of the earth. You tube has only the first 30 minutes…but I did find the full interview in 2 parts.

Val, please put this post where it needs to be. I like to revisit older tapes to see if there is anything I missed….anyway…here it is

http://www.entertonement.com/clips/btdfnfzghs–Rob-Dick-Interview-Pt-1-WMA

http://www.entertonement.com/clips/qxtzrkcwyv–Rob-Dick-Interview-WMA

These are part 1 and 2…the FULL interview

Maura-not sure if you were responding to me or not….

I don’t believe that anything that I wrote contradicts what you have stated, but if you think so, let me know.

I never thought it unethical for them to say she was innocent. I just always felt that it pushed them into a corner.

I am of the opinion that Casey is driving the bus, and as you said, the defense has to make the best of what they’ve got.

That said, knowing that the state has to prove guilt beyond reasonable doubt, it is still an uphill battle for the defense. They don’t have to prove her innocence, but they do have to provide enough reasonable doubt, not nonsensical/fantastical theories or other culprits, in order to get her acquitted of the crime. That will not be easy based on circumstantial evidence.

» lmo4caylee said: { Feb 5, 2010 – 10:02:16 }
Valhall: I know this is off topic, now that CMA will be serving time, is there any hope of moving her out of her private cell into general population?

*****

Casey was sentenced to time served for the check fraud. She is not going to be serving time for those charges because she’s already served it. Probation doesn’t count.

She’s in protective custody because she is charged with a crime (child murder) that makes her a target to inmates in general population. The publicity of her case just adds to the situation. And it’s not only about protecting Casey (who is legally presumed innocent of killing her daughter until the jury renders a verdict of guilt), but about helping the jail personnel maintain order and minimize violent situations that could put many people, including the staff, at risk.

Maura, a very small point, but I ask only for my own clarification: you say you don’t believe Casey has confessed to anything. Does she have to make a ‘formal’ confession or could her words during her second interview with LE (in the office at Universal) be considered a confession when she admits to having provided false information to LE?

I’m assuming there is a difference between ‘making a confession’ and ‘agreeing to having done something’, but can her admission on those tapes be used to convict her (within the context of the overall trial) of providing false information to LE?

WSH –

I was generally addressing the issue raised by Nikki this morning. My comment got away from me, so I didn’t begin with a reference comment.

PonderingWhy said: { Feb 5, 2010 – 02:02:41 }
Maura, a very small point, but I ask only for my own clarification: you say you don’t believe Casey has confessed to anything. Does she have to make a ‘formal’ confession or could her words during her second interview with LE (in the office at Universal) be considered a confession when she admits to having provided false information to LE?

*****

What I wrote:

“As for what Casey IS guilty of . . . Mark NeJame said in November 2008 that Casey Anthony is the only person in the world who knows what happened to Caylee, and the rest of us have opinions about what happened. I believe that is still true because I don’t believe Casey has confessed to anything. In March 2009, in a sworn affidavit in which she denied having any contingency agreement with Jose Baez, Casey included a hand-written message: “I believe that Mr. Ashton is angry because I have refused to take a plea agreement for a crime that I DID NOT COMMIT.” IMO, she has never wavered from her claim that she is 100% innocent and just as much a victim as Caylee.”

**

I wrongly assumed it would be clear that I was speaking of a confession relative to Caylee’s death.

She is on a recorded LE interview admitting she lied about having a job at Universal. That is a confession.

Yesterday, I posted how I just can’t see Felon Casey being forced to listen – in open court, to everyone (for the prosecution, anyway), pretty much reduce her into the monster that she is (with their testimony). Observing Casey’s reaction, when listening to Jeff Ashton get graphic with the details of Caylee’s murder, has confirmed it for me.

A while back (at the onset of this case), I was reading up on sociopathic behaviour, and I read that socio’s cannot stand to be EMBARRASSED (check out her reaction – or rather- her trying NOT to have a reaction, as Jose states more than once”My client is unpopular”. This tells me that Casey will not put herself through the ‘embarrassing’ situation of listening to everyone in open court – while being televised for millions to see-what she truly is, not only by the testimony of her former friends,former coworkers, boyfriends, neighbors, and her parents/ Lee <(by force, of course), but by forensic experts and prosecutors, in addition to viewing blown up photos of Caylee's remains (for the jury).

Before the check fraud trial – even though Casey had plead 'not guilty', I KNEW she would not take this to trial (I was especially sure after I viewed her reaction at JAshton describing in open court – the means in which Caylee had more than likely had been murdered).

While there are many statements that have been made by George and Cindy – directly and indirectly- a particular statement George made in the past has stayed present in my mind. I may not have the exact wording, however, he said something in a LE interview such as the following: "Casey will take things as far as she can go" (if not verbatim, pretty darn close).

I think this description of Casey, by someone that knows her very well (such as George), can be used to describe what we know and have been privy to, regarding Casey's actions.

For me, this description of Casey includes not saying anything about her pregnancy, when obviously expecting -" taking it as far as she can go" before she is FORCED to divulge or take action.

Another would definitely be the check fraud trial, she took it "as far as she can go" before she plead 'guilty'.

This leads me to believe that she will also take the murder trial "as far as she can go", before she pleads guilty.

JMO

Any chance anyone can give an insight into everyday life for Casey now?? Anyone familiar with the jail she is at??

Thanks, Maura! I didn’t know if the taped interview would count, so thanks for answering!

Hi Maura-Pedia!!!!
Hope you don’t mind.
Well, I am very curious about two things… we all know Cindy has washed KC’s pants that where in the trunk of the Pontiac right? She also said the pants were smelling bad.
1. Could Cindy down the road be charged with tempering with evidence?
2. Cindy is a nurse and she said the car smelled like there had been a dead body, why in the world would anybody with common sense would wash those pants or move anything that was in the trunk of the Pontiac for that matter???
George was a police officer, wasn’t he???
I know it’s stupid but to me if I was SURE my daughter was innocent I wouldn’t touch anything in that car… Cindy hadn’t seen Caylee for 30-31 days. Well, nothing in that family makes sense.

None of the TV prosecutors who were asked about the pants said they would bring tampering or obstruction charges against Cindy for washing the pants because Cindy is the one who tracked down Casey and called 911 a few hours later and because Cindy told LE right away that had washed a pair of pants that were on the back seat. The prosecutors all said they would make allowances for the shock she was probably in after learning the car had been in impound for two weeks.

George said in one of his interviews that when he got home with the smelly car, he reassured Cindy that the odor had come from a garbage bag that had been in the trunk while it was sitting in impound. George had doubts at that point, but I believe he was sincere when he said he wanted to reassure Cindy that the smell was from garbage. Cindy may have smelled a body in her nursing career, but that doesn’t mean she had ever smelled the kind of advanced decomposition odor that was in the trunk. And IMO, it is unreasonable not to allow for a fair amount of denial at that point.

The smell had permeated the passenger area and all objects in the car, which is why Cindy took the objects out and placed them on appliances in the garage to air out. The pants, which were on the back seat, smelled like the rest of the car according to Cindy. Those were washable, so she threw them into a wash she had already started (the washing machine was right next to the car in the garage). That seems like the sort of thing a lot of people might do without thinking because the pants were not the source of the smell, but smelled because everything in the car smelled.

I’m inclined to believe the pants only smelled because they had picked up the very foul odor of the air inside the car since it had been sitting in the sun and shut tight for 18 days. No way, no how do I believe Casey waited until June 27 to get rid of the body, and since she had clearly been doing laundry for herself and Tony all along, if the pants had smelled because she spilled decomp fluid on them, she would have washed them by June 27 with her other clothing or thrown them out.

I don’t know why those pants were in the back seat, but a pair of shoes, a pair of boots, and a belt were also in the passenger areas of the car. She’s a slob.

Maura,

Thank you very much Maura, you are a doll!!!
Your explanation gave me an idea of how Cindy could be thinking and it makes sense to me now, although I am not sure how smart KC is and she may or may not would get rid of any pants with fluids or anything that was in touch with Caylee’s fluids. KC makes no sense at all. I understand everything you said it explains away their reasoning but I still think I would NOT move that car just to keep it from being tampered, if you know what I mean Maura. When George was at the tow yard and he asked the guy to with him as he opened the trunk… remember this? As he was moving around the car and towards the trunk he told LE, can’t remember his words but he said something about “let it not be my Caylee” and opened the trunk and the rest is history we all read about it. So I don’t know, I would not move that car at all, I would have called 911 right there. I would call KC for sure but I wouldn’t clean the car or would have moved anything.
Yes KC is slob… who would keep garbage bag in the trunk? To mask the smell maybe?
Thank you for correcting me that the pants were on the back seat and not in the trunk.

“I don’t know why those pants were in the back seat, but a pair of shoes, a pair of boots, and a belt were also in the passenger areas of the car. She’s a slob.”

Maura

Likely her transient living style, at that point, like a gypsy from place to place, also played into having clothes in the car. But, LMAO, I can’t imagine anything out of place by you, the slob comment: hilarious, seems true to form.

I agree with your other assessments. I give Cindy and George a pass early on. But their initial reactions were spot on, as they normally are, subconsciously, and later to be revisited, they knew that it was not like any other garbage they smelled, that it was a very distinct odor, and that it was death.

Former jurors label Baez a ‘rat’ and a ‘jerk’ (imagine that)?

http://www.wftv.com/news/22479250/detail.html

And / Or ‘potential jurors’, I meant to include in my previous post…

I think you have it absolutely right that Cindy was the source of the unbelievable Jay Blanchard scenario and other equally nonsensical stories designed to implicate someone (anyone) other than Casey in the murder of Caylee. At this point, I would be willing to forego Casey being sentenced to death in favor of she and Cindy being sentenced to live out the remainder of their lives as inmates within the State of Florida Department of Corrections. This would be the best justice for Caylee as it would punish those most responsible for her murder and the cover-up that ensued thereafter.

I want Cindy to be held responsible for everything she did (commission and ommision) as much as I want KC to be held accountable. They are like two peas in a pod. A BAD pod

I live in the U.k.And have followed this case /circus /shakesearian melodrama/tragedy very closely.If this had ocured under english legal system Casey wouldve already had a trial been convicted an already into her first year of her life sentance.We of course thankfully have no death sentance.I realise Casey is rheprihencible evil self centred narssasistic an all the rest .She alleges her daughter was kidnapped on the 8th of june yet theres videio evidence that she was with her gran an great grandaddy on the 15th fathers day?So obviously the kiddnapp scenario is a lie even without the non exsistant nanny vacant apartnents bougus employmet at fake jobs . that fathers day vidioe proves the lie,,,Now the greiveing Grandparents are wined an dined by the media an swan of on cruises paid by blood money of ther grand childs corpse? Casey Anthony is a grown woman physically unfourtunately she has the mind of a spoilt little brat of 12 an should have her brain an emotinal state tried as a juvinile.This person is guilty an should not be put to death.She should have the time to grow mature an perhaps some day come to learn what an evil selfish cowardlysickening crime she s perpertrated on the one person who loved her unconditanalyan whom she should have felt the same only then will justice for Calee be done .When the adult Casey has to live out her days with the guilt of her evil deed

Misc. topic = maggots

Hi Valhall, do you know if the maggots found in the trunk and or garbage found in the trunk, were tested for human DNA?

The defense will want to suggest that there is doubt that the single hair belongs to Caylee 100%, that the black band is not conclusive evidence of a body present in the trunk, there was apparently no DNA found in the trunk to prove Caylee was there and deceased.

There was a documentary that showed how maggots assist in solving crimes, location of death, a moved body, time of death, specificity of fly species maggots in its feeding habits, etc. But also, the documentary revealed that the DNA of a body that the maggots were feeding upon, could prove that a body was in one location, that would be the crime scene, then moved to another. Maggots found at the first location could provide DNA from the body that will identify the victim. As the credits rolled by so quickly, the name Haskell was noticeable, two Haskells, I didn’t catch the first names. The program had credits from the states as well as Canada.

So, if the maggots in the trash bag, had been cleaned up from the trunk (papertowels used, put in the trash bag), they would have likely fed on whatever body was in the trunk, if any. No need to worry about the ‘junk science’ issue or subjective interpretation of odour, if the nuclear DNA can identify that there was a human in the trunk who was no longer alive.

Could this be a holdout card of the state, proof positive that it was indeed only Caylee’s body was in the trunk of Casey’s car?

Isn’t it fortunate that Cindy did not have an opportunity to find that trash bag that had been in the trunk– what a stroke of luck for George to have wanted to investigate the trunk with his suspicions of what he might find, and for the tow yard employee to have been there to assist, and remove the bag and toss it in a dumpster, to be recovered by investigators.

Had that bag gone home with the car, Cindy would have had access, and the bag perhaps never known about nor seen by police.

<>

Maura: thanks! You are right about Rick calling it a tumor and not Casey. My point should have been that CINDY thought it was a female problem which caused bloating and which looked, if not like a pregnancy, then in Rick’s jokey lexicon, like a tumor. Rick said that Cindy insisted it was a health problem and Rick said Casey was coy and giggly when people asked if she were pregnant at their wedding (“Who’s the pregnant girl?”

I should have said Caey wasn’t likely to be coy with giggling and obviously enjoying the attention if, indeed, she had a health problem. Also, with a health problem resembling a pregnancy, she probably would have dressed a bit more conservatively so as not to appear pregnant. I think she enjoyed being the center of attention.

**

<>

So the story goes, anyway. Just my take. Sorry it was so long.

If I’m not mistaken, (but I probably am) Casey also told one of her friends she had a tumor. I think it was Melina(?)
Also, I ran across a pic the other day of Cindy & Casey @ Rick’s wedding. Casey is wearing a long, knit fabric dress with one of those short sweaters that tie over it. She’s dressed conservatively, (the way Rick described it, I thought her belly was bare) but there is NO DOUBT that she is very pregnant. She’s already at the stage where it looks like a basketball is under there!! A tumor. Yeah, right. Geeeez!!!

Does anyone know how old Caylee was, when DNA confirmed that Jesse Grund was not the biological father?

Thank you

val, regarding your article, jbp revisited, i had a good laugh, because i knew after reading cindy’s deposition, that “something was wrong withis picture” cindy was asked what was z driving at the time of the imaginary accident. she reponded that z had a toyota , marron in color. when cindy coached casey in the shower about the jbp incident, she told casey to say it was a silver ford focus. dumb cindy. then dumber casey did as she was told and said that z was in a silver ford focus on the 16th of June. i posted the discrepancy on a blog and received a few feedbacks on it. naturally, george and lee followed suit with that damn imaginary silver ford focus. rofl my point——i believe that the anthonys believe that 2plus 2 = 5, and by God, noone had better dispute THEIR math.

i wasnt aware any maggots were found in the trunk? not visable ones at least I read that the incects in the trunk were coffin flies microscopic flies often found near the dead

Morning everybody!!

Maura, good morning!!! Since you are organized and know how to compare phone calls and etc., I have seen Ginnette Lucas cell phone records and I can’t say if she really was talking to DC as she claims the day DC was prodding the ground and garbage, that infamous video we all have seen, near the area where Caylee’s remains were ultimately found. Can you tell from the cell phone records if she REALLY was talking to DC on the phone? I remember GL on NG claiming she told where Caylee was.
Thank you Maura!!!!

ah the anthonys disspossed of the maggots/ .Not only could they be tested for dna but also any poisons or toxin present in the bodie they fed on I think the reason cindy is unable to confront caseys guilt is then she would know she enabled her to do so.aAn probably triggered the attack on CAYLEE with the chokeing incident Anyone want to start an apeal to change poor littile Caylee s name phoustumasly Could change it to Angel rather than being named after casey an her uncle lee neither of them are decent namesakes?

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0903/25/ng.01.html
NANCY GRACE
Casey Anthony Questioned in Court
Aired March 25, 2009
(clip)

GRACE: Mr. Morgan, we`ve all read the deposition. At any
point did the one private I that showed up state
that he was assigned to go look for Zenaida Gonzalez?
[NOTE: P.I. Hoover showed up for a depo with Morgan - while
P.I. Dominic refused to give a depo to Morgan and did not show up]

MORGAN: No, he did not. And I — I don`t know who Sanchez [an attorney on
NG's show who had negative comments about Morgan] is or where he works,
but I got to the bottom of everything because they admitted they never looked
for Zenaida Gonzalez.

They [Hoover and Dominic] admitted that they went out directly to the
spot where she was ultimately found. They admitted that they never called the
police to meet them there that day. They admitted that they never called the
police for days afterwards ever. I mean, they get a tip saying this is
where the body is found, but they don`t call the police. It`s just.

GRACE: Wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. Who gets a tip about where the body is?

MORGAN: Dominic Casey gets a tip.
And he calls this other investigator Hoover, says come to my office. He comes
to the office. Hoover says what`s up? He says we have found the body. I`ve got a tip,
we`re going to — we have found the body. They get in the car, they go to Suburban Drive.
When they get to Suburban Drive, they pull up directly in front of the spot where the body`s
actually found.

This was on a Saturday. They go into the woods, they`re in
there for 20 minutes, Dominic Casey`s being filmed. They don`t find the body.
They come back the next day, do the same thing. But they never called the
police, they never told the police, even though Dominic Casey — this is the
only time that Dominic Casey ever went out physically looking for this little
girl. So I don`t know who Sanchez is.

GRACE: So you`re telling me. The defense.

MORGAN: But he`s dead wrong. He needs to read the whole thing.

GRACE: Mr. Morgan, you`re telling me that under oath, the private I says the
Anthony family gets a tip where Caylee`s body is and it`s right there where her
body was found and they did not call police?
Is that what I just heard?

MORGAN: That is what you heard. And it`s a blockbuster. And to me, I
asked the investigators, did you think this was an alibi that was being set up?
He said I don`t know. And so — and I said who made, who gave him the tip?
He said he wouldn`t tell me. He said we just found out that the body`s there,
they drove out there on November 15th and
returned the next day on November 16th.

GRACE: (INAUDIBLE) gave the tip? Did the P.I. know who called in the tip?

MORGAN: My P.I. says he doesn`t know. He says he thinks it`s Lee Anthony.
And — but Dominic Casey has never told anyone.

(clip)

GRACE: Back to John Morgan, attorney for Gonzalez who
deposed the Anthony family private I today. So the private eye
says he gets a tip where the body is. This is before police find out about it.
He goes to the location where, in fact, the
body was discovered a couple of weeks later.

Now when I read the deposition, he`s saying he
won`t — you can`t find out who gave the tip. He alludes to a psychic.
Mr. Morgan, why do you believe the tip came from Lee Anthony?

MORGAN: Well, I don`t necessarily believe that. What I`ve said was – - I asked
the other private I today. I said, did Dominic Casey ever tell you who gave
the tip? He said no, he didn`t. I said, well, who do you think gave the
tip? And he said, I believe Lee Anthony or something to that effect
low probability Lee Anthony. And then he kind of wobble on it.

But he — Dominic Casey would never tell him,
even though they`re out there for two days, who gave
him this tip. Although, they drove
directly – - I mean, I`m talking about straight
to the — where the body was ultimately found.

(clip)

I saw the vidieo of them searching for the remains an though it was very near were Caylee was found it was not the exact locationI beleive he stated a physcic was on his phone dirrecting him afterwards they went to an empty property a house were the former resident was called Gonzallez I think Lee A NTHONY knew were the remains were andirected him to look there specificaly close but not the actual spot .This was done to cancel that general area to future scrutiny from searchers. To say well that areas been searched an nothing was found.If an experinced privite eye law enforsement person went to the presise location of the remains they would have found them unless they were under water an even then I susspect they wouldve been found this case just gets criouser an cuiriouser?

midget48 said: { Feb 6, 2010 – 12:02:18 }
val, regarding your article, jbp revisited, i had a good laugh, because i knew after reading cindy’s deposition, that “something was wrong withis picture” cindy was asked what was z driving at the time of the imaginary accident. she reponded that z had a toyota , marron in color. when cindy coached casey in the shower about the jbp incident, she told casey to say it was a silver ford focus. dumb cindy. then dumber casey did as she was told and said that z was in a silver ford focus on the 16th of June. i posted the discrepancy on a blog and received a few feedbacks on it. naturally, george and lee followed suit with that damn imaginary silver ford focus. rofl my point——i believe that the anthonys believe that 2plus 2 = 5, and by God, noone had better dispute THEIR math.

*****

Midget,

I am not following your argument.

The information about Zanny’s silver Ford Focus came from Casey on July 15, 2008.

On the night of the 911 calls, July 15, 2008, Deputies Rendon Fletcher and Adriana Acevedo were among the first to respond. Casey and Acevedo drove to the Sawgrass Apartments and met Fletcher there so that Casey could point out the apartment where she had allegedly left Caylee. Casey pointed out apartment 210, but Fletcher said he could see that the apartment was currently vacant. Fletcher said in his report that he asked Casey what type of vehicle Zenaida drove, and Casey told him a silver Ford Focus. Acevedo took Casey back to the Anthony residence while Fletcher stayed to meet with a Sawgrass supervisor. Fletcher and the supervisor drove around the complex looking for a silver Ford Focus. According to the Sawgrass records, only one silver Ford Focus was registered to a tenant, a white female who lived at the rear of the complex, no where near apartment 210. (Discovery page 2788, released November 2008)

**

On July 25, George and Cindy had two video visitations with Casey (one at 1:00pm and a second at 2:00pm). Cindy asked about the silver car, and Casey gave details about Zanny’s car during the 1:00pm visit:

Cindy: Um, silver car, correct?

Casey: Silver Ford Focus, 2008, four-door, the windows aren’t tinted. It’s very basic. There’s a pink floral car seat on the right passenger side in the back. That’s the car seat that she’s had for Caylee.

(Section from WFTV video part 2 of 2, beginning at 5:45)

*****

One year later during Cindy’s July 29, 2009 SAO deposition, she was asked about her knowledge of the types of cars Zanny had before and after the alleged June 23, 2008 accident outside of Tampa:

SA: . . . Did you have some knowledge of what sort of car this Zanny had before the [June 23] accident?

Cindy: Casey told me I believe she had a Toyota Camry prior to, something like that, is what she had talked about before.

SA: Did you have any other detail about that vehicle?

Cindy: Not the color or anything. I’m not sure if it was burgundy or whatever or maroon or –

SA: Okay. That color is sticking out in your mind–

Cindy: It –

SA: –like a reddish of some sort?

Cindy: –seems like it was reddish in color, from my memory, but I can’t tell you for sure.

SA: You did tell the police that Casey told you after this accident, that Zanny ended up with a 2008 silver Ford Focus?

Cindy: Correct.

(Cindy’s SAO deposition, part 2, pages 215-216)

**

There is nothing in discovery indicating any information Casey gave to anyone about cars Zanny had other than the silver Ford Focus. That doesn’t mean Casey did not tell Cindy about a maroon Toyota Camry that Zanny had owned prior to the silver Ford Focus.

However, I have doubts about Cindy’s July 2009 SAO deposition testimony regarding Zanny’s maroon Toyota. My opinion is that Cindy, who had interpreted Casey’s “clues” in the summer of 2008 to mean Amy Huizenga was Zanny, was actually remembering testimony she had read about the car Amy picked up in Jacksonville on June 13, 2008 (Amy’s new car, not Zanny’s old car).

During Cindy’s July 30, 2008 FBI interview, she was desperately trying to convince FBI Agent Scott Bolin that Amy Huizenga was Zanny. During the interview, Cindy told Bolin that Casey said Zanny drives a 2008 silver Ford Focus; Cindy did not know what kind of car Amy owned. Cindy said she didn’t know if the 2008 silver Ford Focus is the clue or if the idea of a new car purchased by a father for a daughter is the clue (because Amy had just got a new car in June with the help of her father and Casey said Zanny had just got a new car in June allegedly with the help of her step-father).

Agent Bolin ran a Florida Driver and Vehicle Indentification (DAVID) search on Amy and found no 2008 Ford for Amy or her parents. Cindy said she was not assuming the exact car was correct, just the fact of a new car obtained by Zanny. Bolin told Cindy it can take 30 days for a new car to post in the system, so Cindy didn’t consider the DAVID search to be a dead-end. Bolin also told Cindy that Amy’s height on the system was 5’7”. Since Casey claimed Zanny was 5’7”, Cindy really thought she was interpreting the clues correctly in her Amy = Zanny theory.

I think it’s quite obvious Cindy read the interview transcripts of Casey’s friends, and she was probably looking for information about Amy’s cars. From the released discovery, Cindy would have learned that Amy got a red Toyota Corolla on June 13 in Jacksonville because that information is in Amy’s July 16 LE interview. LE needed the VIN number, and Amy told them where her car was parked and what kind of car she owned:

Q2 And it’s in the parking lot across the street?

A Yeah, it’s the red Toyota Corolla.

Q2 I’ll just run you through motor vehicles.

**

Also, Danny Colamarino, the manager of Cast Iron Tattoo, said Casey stopped in on July 15 driving a friend’s car. In his OCSO interview, he described the car as a maroon Toyota.

OCSO: You had a conversation about her driving a friend’s car?

Colamarino: Yes. It was like, uh, a darker, well a red or a maroon, like an anodized, like almost washed out paint job of a . . . it was like a mid-size car, like a four-door Toy, Toyota or something along those lines.

OCSO: Was it a compact, uh, import?

Colamarino: Yeah (affirmative).

OCSO: Maroon?

Colamarino: Maroonish-red, washed out.

*****

IMO Casey did not tell Cindy Zanny’s old car was a maroon Toyota Camry. I believe Cindy was simply remembering information in the discovery about Amy’s car because the year before, Cindy had been trying to find out what kind of car Amy drove to see if it fit Cindy’s Amy = Zanny interpretation of Casey’s “clues.”

Here is what is in released discovery:

Amy totaled her car on June 6, 2008 and got a new car on June 13.

Amy’s old car: Not mentioned in discovery

Amy’s new car: Used Red/Maroon Toyota Corolla purchased with help of father
Mentioned in Amy’s July 16 and Danny Colamarino’s July 17 LE interviews

*

Zanny allegedly had a car accident on June 23, 2008 according to Casey.

Zanny’s old car: Maroon Toyota Camry***
***Only mentioned by Cindy in her July 2009 SAO deposition

Zanny’s new car: Silver Ford Focus purchased with help of step-father
Mentioned in Rendon Fletcher’s OCSO report and during the July 25 jail video visitation

Many months ago, Dominic Casey posted sections of phone records relating to his Saturday, November 15 phone calls with Ginny Lucas on his D&A Investigations website. Since he appears to be in transition, I don’t know if the links work any more

http://dgator.com/Documents/Telephone%20Records%2011.15.08.pdf

The records were at http://dgator.com in the section labeled CMA Document Library, Page 4, in a file labeled “11.15.08 Telephone Records of Dominic Casey and Ginette Lucas.”

Dominic Casey’s cell phone: 407-448-45xx
Dominic Casey’s office phone: 407-865-7152
Ginny Matacia Lucas’s cell phone: 703-772-15xx
Ginny Matacia Lucas’s home phone: 804-550-51xx

Saturday, November 15 Activity for Dominic Casey and Ginny Lucas:

6:43am Ginny cell outgoing call to DC’s office lasting 2 minutes
6:51am Ginny cell outgoing call to DC’s cell lasting 2 minutes
6:58am DC call to Ginny’s home lasting 1 minute
7:02am DC call to Ginny’s cell lasting 2 minutes
7:02am Ginny cell incoming call from DC’s cell lasting 1 minute
7:06am DC call to Ginny’s cell lasting 1 minute
7:06am DC call to Ginny’s home lasting 1 minute
7:12am DC call to Ginny’s home lasting 29 minutes
9:02am DC call to Ginny’s home lasting 1 minute
9:03am DC call to Ginny’s home lasting 1 minute
9:03am DC call to Ginny’s cell lasting 1 minute
9:04am Ginny cell incoming call from DC’s cell lasting 1 minute
9:04am DC call to Ginny’s home lasting 14 minutes (9:04-9:18am)
9:26am DC call to Ginny’s home lasting 9 minutes (9:26-9:35am)

These phone calls do correspond with about a minute’s worth of the videotaped images of Dominic Casey shot by Jim Hoover on November 15 that I saw.

Dominic Casey is clearly visible at the very beginning of the videotape (time-stamp November 15 at 9:15am) talking on his cell phone. However, we don’t have all the videotape shot by Hoover on those days (and may not have all the tape he gave to LE).

I was only able to view the 5:15 minutes of tape provided by Hoover to WFTV. Those five minutes are heavily edited, contain a half-dozen or so short clips (some only lasting a few seconds), jump back and forth between November 15 and 16, and repeat several sections. The WFTV videotape begins on November 15 at 9:15am, which is the tail-end of DC’s 9:04-9:18am call with Ginny Lucas. There are jumps on November 15 to sections time-stamped at 9:38am and then at 9:46am. The November 16 clips are roughly time-stamped at 7:50am, 7:54am, 8:00am, and 815am.

I decided to do some research and go back and find out exactly when Leonard started to say PUBLICLY on Nancy Grace that Kronk’s girlfriend who works at the jail, told Kronk where Caylee was. It helps me to put his comments in perspective and look at what he was saying BEFORE …. and AFTER any specific comment(s).

My conclusion is that Leonard is FULL OF a lot of hot air!!!! He has an EGO the size of Texas and he wants to be in the spotlight and be able to say that HE is the one with all the insight and special knowledge. Most of the time he is/was just making a “guess” according to his experience in investigating and bounty hunting.

On December 11th – when Caylee was found – Leonard says on Nancy Grace that “GOD brought it all together” (not that someone tipped off Kronk to where her body was – Leonard had not yet seen the Hoover video of Dominic in the woods on Nov. 15th)
Leonard had even offered his $ 50,000 reward to Kronk, but said he retracted it because HE said county workers cannot take gifts (yet attorney Nejame successfully gave Kronk a reward).

On December 15th on Nancy Grace, Leonard is saying he is vindicated because he told everybody Caylee was dead (not that Leonard or anybody else KNEW where Caylee was)

I think this is horribly disrespectful of Leonard to NOW say that he thought law enforcement KNEW where Caylee was before Kronk found her on December 11th! I do not believe for one second, that law enforcement would have left that baby’s body out in the swamp for animals and insects to ravage and to lose critical evidence.

The first time Leonard says on Nancy Grace that Kronk is in a daisy chain was on December 18th (long after Caylee was found on Dec. 11th). Leonard says someone was guiding Kronk to the spot. (This was after Leonard learned about Hoover’s video of Dominic poking around in the woods on Nov. 15th. Hoover showed Leonard the video on Dec 16th or Dec 17th).

In my opinion, Leonard might have thought the FBI knew where Caylee was, after December 17th, because the FBI confiscated Hoover’s video of Dominic poking around in the woods in November. Leonard did not know about this Hoover video of Dominic until December 16th or 17th, when Hoover showed the video to Leonard . (AFTER Caylee was found). The FBI did not confiscate Hoover’s video of Dominic until December 17th or 18th after Leonard and Hoover told the FBI about the video.

Leonard had NO IDEA where Caylee was at this time, before Caylee was found (as confirmed by Leonard’s OWN statements on Nancy Grace).

Leonard had divers in the Econ River looking for Caylee because he was SURE she was there, on November 13, 2008, and Leonard was making statements on Nancy Grace about Caylee being in the River up until December 4, 2008 And Leonard had considered taking a media deal paying him $ 200,000 to film the diving searches.

On December 29, 2008 – Leonard says on Nancy Grace that LEE is the head of the daisy chain – after getting info from KC, Lee tells Dominic ….. Dominic gets word to Kronk (Leonard says nothing about a girlfriend of Kronks who works at the jail)

On December 29, 2008 – an informant named Deb Walker is emailing Dominic and Cindy with information on Joseph Carpentiere, who has the same address as Kronk. Joseph died the same timeframe that Kronk’s girlfriend/fiance Sandy died. Joseph’s wife is Michele Carpentiere who Kronk is now dating/living with. This Deb tries to make an inappropriate connection between Michele who works at the jail and Kronk – Deb calls it “conflict of interest”.
[I assume that Dominic begins investigating Michele - and also assume that Leonard gets wind of the girlfriend at the jail info - and they all make a giant LEAP into stating as fact that Michele must have told Kronk where to find Caylee]

On January 5, 2009 – reporter Drew Petrimeoux tells Nancy Grace that he has learned from “experts” and also LEONARD has said, that there is a Kronk connection back to the jail, a woman that Kronk knew [my thoughts are that just because Michele works at the jail, and just because she is dating Kronk, that does NOT mean that Michele, or any other jail staff, overhead anything between Baez and KC!!!!]

On January 6, 2009 – Leonard is telling Nancy Grace that Kronk’s supervisor is a neighbor of the Anthonys (implying that the supervisor somehow got info from the Anthonys and the supervisor told Kronk where to find Caylee????) (Leonard is NOT saying on NG anything about Kronk’s girlfriend at the jail)
Leonard tells NG that somebody got word to Kronk to get out there – Kronk is the end of the daisy chain

On January 7, 2009 – Kathi Belich tells NG that Hoover says Dominic has specific instructions on where to look, and specifically what to look for, and Dominic did a detailed search in that specific location. Kathi says Dominic went back to that scene two other times without Hoover.

Nancy Grace specifically asks LEONARD if the meter reader got info from the JAIL? Leonard says he does not know who told him. (says NOTHING about girlfriend working at the jail). Leonard tells NG that Kronk got the info from somebody because he was out there August 11th, and September 2nd, and sent back out there again on December 11th.
Leonard tells Nancy Grace that he wants Kronk to tell the FBI that Kronk got a tip from Casey-Lee-Dominic, so Casey cannot deny that she killed her daughter.

Later, Leonard would state on Nancy Grace that maybe Cindy or Lee got info to the psychic, when Cindy sent the psychic a teddy bear, and that was conveyed through Dominic to go searching in the woods.

When I look at the timeline and put it all into perspective …… Leonard’s theories change and evolve continually. He knows NOTHING for a fact, yet he continues to help in dragging Kronk through the mud, to the point that now the Defense is trying to make Kronk a SUSPECT!!!!

As far as I can tell, Leonard has NO statement from anyone who will testify under oath that Kronk EVER told them his girlfriend, Michele, who works at the jail ever told Kronk anything about an overheard conversation between Baez and Casey. Without such testimony – I believe it is terribly wrong to implicate a jail employee, Michele, and/or other jail staff, in such activities.

Leonard says that Kronk’s ex wife Crystal says that Roy said his girlfriend told him where Caylee was. But, Roy did not talk directly to his ex-wife Crystal. Roy allegedly told this to his parents and his son. Are Roy’s parents and son going to testify, UNDER OATH, that Roy specifically told them that his girlfriend Michele, who works at the jail, told him where Caylee was, due to an overheard conversation between Casey and her attorney????

Instead of Leonard focusing on trashing KRONK and his girlfriend Michele and implicating jail personnel …. WHY isn’t Leonard focusing on DOMINIC and WHO told Dominic to go to that specific location on November 15th, 16th, and 2 other times???? WHO was Dominic on the phone with? What did Dominic mean when he said “it would be right here” as he was leaning over paver stones in the near vicinity of where Caylee was located? Why did Dominic file a Florida Bar Complaint against Baez stating that Baez told him NOT to call 911 if he found Caylee?

Kathi Belich at WFTV was allowed to watch the 12 minute video WITH AUDIO, that Hoover filmed of Dominic poking around in the woods — but WFTV was only allowed to copy portions of the video with NO AUDIO.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0901/12/ng.01.html
NANCY GRACE
Video Shows PI`s Search of Caylee Remains Site Months Before Body Was Found
Aired January 12, 2009

KATHI BELICH, WFTV: Well, I watched 12 minutes` worth of video, listened to it. There is audio that tape. We were not permitted to record it. We were permitted to record about a minute-and-a-half of the video. But I heard on that video — at a point where you`re seeing the concrete blocks at the scene, I heard Dominic Casey, the Anthonys` private eye, say, It would be right here. The man who shot that video, private eye Jim Hoover, says that Dominic Casey told him that Caylee was dead and they were going to find her, and that`s what they were doing in that area on November 15th and November 16th.

GRACE: So Kathi, we have some of the video, but you saw the whole thing and you could hear it. You were disallowed from reproducing the audio.

BELICH: I heard him say, It would be right here. And I listened to it again and again. And we were watching it on a big monitor and I stood with my ear right next to the speaker and then away from it. I listened to it several times so that I was sure. And what he says is, It would be right here.

Maura,

Wow!! Thank you very much!!! So it seems DC was telling the truth about talking to Ginnette Lucas oh the phone that day… although you said the video that was released was edited.
Should we think the theory that DC is going to spilt the beans about something damaging to the Prosecution could not be true… unless he does know something and wants to save his skin?
I have read In Session’s blog and some people are speculating DC is moving his office and no address was published just his email address so it leads us to scratch our heads… at least it’s curious.

Maura, do you know if DC still works for the Anthony’s?
We know JB has a new PI from Chicago (I believe indicated by Lyon). It makes me wonder how much money these people are making to pay all of these individuals… I don’t think they come cheap.

I was always under the impression that Dominac Casey did NOT know that Hoover was filming his search. I could very well be wrong. I honestly doubt Dominac Casey would have consented to the search being filmed. I don’t think the filming was taking place at the request of DC to prove there was no body in that location. Nobody as far as I know is aware of what may have happened if DC would have found Caylee’s remains. My gut feeling is there would have been a “cover up” rather than alerting the authorities but then again, nobody other DC really knows the answer.

FRG said: { Feb 6, 2010 – 03:02:43 }
Maura, do you know if DC still works for the Anthony’s?
We know JB has a new PI from Chicago (I believe indicated by Lyon). It makes me wonder how much money these people are making to pay all of these individuals… I don’t think they come cheap.

*****

The Anthonys were served an SAO subpoena last summer to hand over all correspondence between George, Cindy, Lee and Dominic Casey regarding the case. Cindy printed out her emails and text messages on July 23 (no telling if she handed over everything, though), and Brad Conway took them to the SAO on July 24.

In those emails, which were released in September 2009 discovery, is a July 21, 2009 email from Dominic Casey to Cindy Anthony with an attached photograph of an Hispanic woman wearing a flag. Dominic wrote in the email that it was a photograph of a “Zenaida” he had located, and he wanted Cindy to have it shown to Casey for ID purposes. So as of July 2009, he was working for Cindy and still trying to find Zenaida.

But at the December 11, 2009 hearing before Judge Strickland, Dominic Casey’s attorney, Diana Tennis, who was fighting a subpoena to have Dominic Casey deposed, told the court Dominic did “not want any more involvement in this case than is required by the court.”

That sounds to me as if he had parted ways with the Anthonys by the time of that hearing, but I do not know of any formal confirmation by Dominic Casey or the Anthonys or their attorneys that he is no longer working for them on the case or has formally ended his services in writing as he did with Baez on October 1, 2008. And unless he formally ended his agreement with Casey, his September 2008 letter of engagement with her is still in effect even though he has not seen Casey since then.

I don’t believe Jose Baez technically hired Mortimer Smith, the PI currently working for the defense. Smith, who interviewed the Kronk detractors and sits behind Andrea Lyon at hearings, is part of Andrea Lyon’s team at DePaul University. He is Associate Director of the Criminal Defense Investigator Certification Program at DePaul University and a practicing PI who specializes in criminal defense and is a consultant to attorneys and criminal defense investigators on matters concerning criminal cases. Jeannette Barrett, the mitigation specialist who has spent about 40 hours to day visiting Casey in jail, is also part of Lyon’s team at DePaul. Andrea Lyon is the director of the University’s College of Law Center for Justice in Capital Cases, and it could be that the University or a private donor is funding travel and expenses for all three of them.

Regarding Leonard P’s statements on the Dec. 9, 2008 Nancy Grace show – after research into Leonard’s statements on the Nancy Grace show BEFORE Dec. 9th and AFTER Dec 9th …. Leonard was NOT being coy, and Leonard did NOT have any inside information about where Caylee was, or any expectation that law enforcement already knew where Caylee was, BEFORE Kronk found her on December 11th.

Leonard said on Dec. 9, 2008 on Nancy Grace:
But everybody knows when she died and — the 30 days is not a secret anymore. And don`t be surprised — don`t be surprised if Orange County or the FBI don`t drop it on us here that they`ve got the body somewhere.

In reading the context of this statement by Leonard, it is clear that Leonard was saying this about Caylee definitely being DEAD and he wouldn’t be surprised if LE already had her body, because ……. Baez kept saying publicly that they believed Caylee was ALIVE. Leonard was driving home the point that Caylee was DEAD (Leonard was NOT saying that law enforcement definitely knew were Caylee was, or that Leonard knew where Caylee was). All Leonard was saying is that Caylee was definitely DEAD, no matter what Baez says. Leonard was publicly denouncing what the Anthonys and the Defense were saying about an ALIVE Caylee and sightings all over the world.

On NG on December 10th, the next day – Leonard continued to say that FBI and OCSO KNEW Caylee is DEAD, and that the “sightings” the Anthonys were talking about were baloney. Leonard is saying LE knew Caylee is DEAD …. not that LE knew where Caylee was (and certainly not that Leonard had any insider info about where Caylee was).

On December 11th – when Caylee was found – Leonard says on Nancy Grace that “GOD brought it all together” (not that someone tipped off Kronk to where her body was – Leonard had not yet seen the Hoover video of Dominic in the woods on Nov. 15th)
Leonard had even offered his $ 50,000 reward to Kronk, but said he retracted it because Leonard said that county workers cannot take gifts (though Nejame later gave Kronk a reward).
On December 15th on Nancy Grace, Leonard is saying he is vindicated because he told everybody Caylee was DEAD (not that Leonard or anybody else KNEW where Caylee was).

Leonard had divers in the Econ River looking for Caylee because he was SURE she was there, on November 13, 2008, and Leonard was making statements on Nancy Grace about Caylee being in the River up until December 4, 2008 And Leonard had considered taking a media deal paying him $ 200,000 to film the diving searches.

After Caylee was found on December 11th ….. then Leonard likes to revert back to his statements on NG on December 9th, and puff up his chest, and make it appear as though HE had some special insight into where Caylee was three days before she was found by Kronk. Taken out of context – Leonard’s remarks on Dec. 9th might seem to have more weight than they actually do, when put into context of what Leonard was actually meaning to say on December 9th — specifically that law enforcement KNEW Caylee was DEAD.

Leonard did not know about the Hoover video of Dominic poking around in the woods, until December 16th. The FBI did not have this video until then either. Leonard only suspected Casey-Lee-Dominic-psychic in his daisy chain theory in its initial stages. Leonard did not publicly state that someone was “guiding” Kronk until December 18th on Nancy Grace, after Leonard had seen Hoover’s video of Dominic in the woods.

We cannot take anything that Leonard P. says at face value …. his statements must be researched and put into context to weed out what is actually being said.

In one of the jailhouse videos, Casey says something to the effect of: “I told you she had a key to the house” – she is referring to ‘Zanny the Nanny’ (let it be known, I feel foolish even typing the fake moniker).

I mean, ‘are you kidding me?’ (a la Casey)…Cindy has never made an effort to meet or speak to the phantom Nanny (her reason being, ‘there was never a need to’, yet, Casey is bold and brazen enough to give Zanny ‘a key’, to enter at anytime she felt like it?!

(Casey’s thoughts: Who cares if my volatile, controlling parents have never met you, or are capable of pulling a gun on you – the one my dad keeps in the car trunk-thinking your a burglar, especially after the gas cans incident)?

When listening to this ‘Zanny has a key’ fantasy, I picture the following scenario:

Zanny calls Casey at Universal, tells her “Caylee’s out of pull-ups”…Casey then tells her ” Well, I’m busy right now, and my boss Mr. Manley won’t let me leave, as you know, I have a huge wedding to work this weekend- of which I’m soooo effing pizzed – cuz I haven’t had a day off in ten days, but in any case, just go to the house, let yourself in with the key and take what you need. Oh yeah, if you need to reach me later, don’t call me on this phone, it’s not holding a charge, and for me it’s not practical…so make sure you call me on the blackjack, I’m about to swap out the sim card as soon as I hang up’.

Fast forward:

Zanny drives to the house, let’s herself in, makes a beeline to Caylee’s room (since she is so familiar with the layout of the house and rooms, since she’s been there soooo many times), rummages through drawers, gathering items for Caylee, when Cindy drives up and comes storming through the house.

Cindy: ‘Who the hell are you and what are you doing in my house???!!’

Zanny: ‘ Oh, hi! You don’t know me, but I’m Zanny the Nanny, I’m the one that’s been babysitting your most prized possession- Caylee, for almost two years! I’m soooo sorry to startle you, however, I need some items for Caylee, and Casey instructed me to come and pick them up, so don’t mind me, just go about your business and I’ll be out in a jiffy.
Oh and by the way, each time I let myself in, I really struggle when inserting the key in the door, since the key is kinda bent and all, so I’d really appreciate you providing me with a new one, you know, for next time’.

Cindy: (while smacking her gum) ‘ Oh, okay. I’ll have George go and, ya know, make a duplicate this weekend. By the way, I really, ya know, appreciate all those nights you have let Casey and Caylee crash at your place. One last thing, the summer heat is just awful, …so can you look into buying Caylee some new summer clothes ? Casey’s gonna be short the next couple paychecks, ya know, cuz she’s having some repairs done to her car, hopefully, they’ll fix that pesky gas gauge too. Casey speaks sooo highly of you…how much you love Caylee , and how your so good about, ya know, buying her everything she needs for when she stays at your house and stuff’.

Zanny then hurriedly walks to her car, cuz she’s pressed for time, Jeffery is dropping of Zachary in half an hour, for a play date with some other toddlers she’s watching this particular afternoon.

She proceeds to walk towards her ‘basic’ Silver Ford Focus (with no window tinting)…slides in the drivers seat, starts the ignition and before zooming off , flashes her trademark, perfect – white toothed smile, and says ’suuuure, no problem – adiooossss’ – as she drives off into the sunset.

Meanwhile, Cindy is left standing at the end of the driveway and mumbles to herself: ‘Wow, Casey wasn’t kiddin’- she really is a 10!’

Fade to Black…

I concocted the above to reflect corny and ridiculous -in keeping with not only the ‘I told you Zanny had a key’ statement, but with the entire B.S that C & C spew!

Winterbelle – I can see that….lol

Post-traumatic stress disorder symptoms:

* Flashbacks, or reliving the traumatic event for minutes or even days at a time
* Upsetting dreams about the traumatic event
* Trying to avoid thinking or talking about the traumatic event
* Feeling emotionally numb
* Avoiding activities you once enjoyed
* Hopelessness about the future
* Memory problems
* Trouble concentrating
* Difficulty maintaining close relationships
* Irritability or anger
* Overwhelming guilt or shame
* Self-destructive behavior, such as drinking too much
* Trouble sleeping
* Being easily startled or frightened
* Hearing or seeing things that aren’t there

PTSD symptoms can come and go. You may have more PTSD symptoms during times of higher stress or when you experience reminders of what you went through. You may hear a car backfire and relive combat experiences, for instance. Or you may see a report on the news about a rape, and feel again the horror and fear of your own assault.

A paraphrase from Mayo Clinic staff (http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/post-traumatic-stress-disorder/ds00246/dsection=symptoms)

I’m sure it’s fair to say that G+C “failed” Casey, in that this was a dysfunctional family and somehow they essentially did not meet her emotional and psychological needs or see her problems emerging. However, lots of people come from dysfunctional families
and they don’t kill their children. I think Casey went far beyond the margin of bad
behavior that could be excused by dysfunctional origins and put pedal to the metal.
She went well beyond the scope of what her parents can be blamed for. My guess is
she was hanging out with and became influenced by more hardcore types of people
none of whom will come forward to give statements, and probably got caught up in
coke or meth use. Cindy + George might be nuts but they’re not hardcore as Casey is.
I’m not so sure she got that at home. It seems more to me like something that came
from connection to criminal elements and bad drugs. I think she had to be living some
kind of hardcore and seedy double life that her family and friends knew nothing
about, and that’s what led to the compulsive lying. She was hiding an entirely other
life and identity no one had any idea about yet somehow no glimpses of it have
surfaced in any testimonies because no one close to her had any idea at all.

Monica – While I agree that Casey went beyond what G&C may have or even should have anticipated, from reading the discovery it appears to me that Casey has had a long history of lying and that behavior was not a recent development.

WinterBelle,
Lol, really so transparent. Cindy and Casey trying to cover every base and when it’s put to the test it’s downright ridiculous. They don’t expect anyone to look beyond what they say because that wasn’t done in their private world. They were both “home schooled” where whatever you say isn’t questioned or else you just stomp away or get really, really angry and that stops the pesky questioning business. They never had to learn to lie well.
If Zany has a key then there has to be a Zany and that will explain everything when stuff from the house shows up should anyone ever find Caylee. There! Another loose end disposed of.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posttraumatic_stress_disorder#Signs_and_symptoms

PTSD can cause confabulation or any of a number of other disordered thinking conditions to manifest (especially any which were there in a milder form before the PTSD occurred). Any high stress, traumatic event in life can form the basis for bringing about this disorder in a given individual.

WilliamHill, I love your posts but feel you are wrong about the Anthonys having PTSD. Your list of symptons of PTSD describe the opposite of how the Anthonys have behaved. The Anthonys have been involved in an active cover-up for a long time.

I have felt for a long time that Cindy KNEW (read: not just suspected)
for a fact that Caylee was dead & possibly even knew where her body
was by the time of the August (14?) jail visit. Up until that time, I
believe her actions, behaviors, interviews, & the JBP scenario were
all caused by her denial of what may have happened to Caylee. (“she
can’t be dead, she can’t be dead” I imagine that Cindy kept herself
awake trying to convince herself that she had suffered an “olfactory
hallucination.”
However, by mid-August there is a shift in all that Cindy does. At
this time, the focus seems to be “protect Casey.” In the August jail
visit video it is plain that Cindy could hardly hold herself
together. I think the whole time she was holding herself back from
asking the $64,000 question. She had the knowledge & could not stand
to look at her granddaughter’s murderer. I think she very badly wanted
to hear the truth, but at the same time couldn’t bear it.
I know this sounds like a lot of speculation, but I have a plausible
basis for it: WHAT IF Cindy got wind of something being discovered on
Suburban Drive that week? What if someone had told her that a group
of people had gathered around the woods seemingly looking for
something & that later a sheriff’s deputy car was spotted there?
Neighbors talk. This could be what prompted her to give DC info to
look in this area. (assuming of course that she did) “Wait until the
coasts is clear- no protesters, water receding, etc.”
In addition, the information that Casey did not receive a phone call from Caylee on July 15th was released.
I believe Cindy operates by instinct and emotion. Reason does not
enter in. Serving chili & cornbread on Caylee’s birthday is an
emotional, sentimental gesture as that was the same menu served to
Cindy & Caylee the last day she saw her. Cindy & Caylee’s last meal
together.
I usually don’t put too much emphasis on the Anthony family when
thinking about this case as it doesn’t bear out any evidence towards
Casey’s guilt, but Cindy’s behavior in August, and later in December
have always perplexed me.

I could have used one of the going postal examples, or the people related to comet suicides or any other group of people who died suddenly and unexpectedly or any other person who killed someone in their own family. The death camps were incidental to my point.

They are all historical facts and examples of stress causing events which could lead to PTSD. Wars are another example, victims of rape yet another. All are odious. that is what causes PTSD. The word garbage would be interchangeable with stuff in my post and was meant to have no negative connotation . Murder is odious. Child murder is odious. Mass death of any kind is odious. The list could go on….

Although I thought that I was originally speaking to JennyB instead of BrendaT, but maybe not….

At any rate, my intent was not to offend anyone with any of my posts – so sorry that you have found them offensive. My intent was to convey an idea. Nothing more and nothing less.

William point well taken. I was aware who you were responding to. I apologise for asserting myself into that communication. I did respond both yesterday and today on two separate threads to posts closely related in context to your thesis. Oh well…..

Post traumatic stress can arise from a multitude of situations. I don’t want to wade into what was yesterday’s controversy. I don’t want to stir up any hurt feelings or offend anyone. I’m not a doctor so I couldn’t say if the Anthonys suffered from PTSD. I have often considered complicated grief. I can’t find my original source. I had sent it to Blink a long time ago. But within complicated grief, there can be a lot of lashing out, anger and bitterness. Starting fights, and so forth. I would imagine that it would be devastating to lose someone you love, possibly by the hand of another that you love, and somehow you are in the mix; meaning that you feel you might have been able to prevent the fatal end result. Maybe you KNOW you contributed, but it is too late. I don’t like most of the Anthony’s behavior, but I don’t know their personal constitution or strength, they could have “gone a little crazy” ( not a medical term, obvs) after the fact. Probably the dynamic inside the family wasn’t the healthiest to begin with. Sometimes people who are the loudest, or act the toughest are, deep down, extraordinarily fragile. Does it excuse everything?-certainly not. On the other hand, I can still hold some sympathy for them, at least at the beginning, when all of this was beginning to develop. I don’t get the money thing. But then again, maybe they did it to fund Casey’s defense?

Let me put it this way, there are varying levels of PTSD or extended /complicated grief. There are varying levels of how good or horrible a person is, etc. You can be a terrible person and still suffer PTSD. You can be a normally good person and act horribly with PTSD. And you can be just be a horrible person, doing horrible things all the time and unaffected, etc…. and on and on. in variations.

I don’t think it impossible that the Anthonys could be suffering from PTSD or complicated grief, on some level. I’m not, however, certain that all of their actions have been driven by it, if indeed they do have it. Maybe their actions were always questionable but became ‘over the top’ later. Maybe they are desperate.Mybe it is ’same as it ever was’. F if I know.

I’m not sure if this was William’s argument, or not. If so, then I would tend to agree. People can be struck with mental illness or traumas /disorders at much lower thresholds of stressors than others. Some of it depends on where they were at to begin with.

Whether they are people who are either beloved or reviled; that is a separate issue, in my opinion.

http://blinkoncrime.com/2010/01/25/cayleecasey-anthony-case-plea-sans-adjudication-in-court-today/comment-page-13/#comment-1543255

THANKS! soulsister says: February 7, 2010 at 4:08 pm
here is a video of Geraldo and Dominic Casey when the search video was first released.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_sEh-hVZcA

Geraldo said that Dominic had “maps and graphics” to look in that area (that is NOT just a “tip” from a psychic! That is DETAILED INFO on where to look! WHO gave Dominic “maps and graphics”????

Brad Conway says the video is property of the Anthonys, because they hired Dominic …. but they did NOT hire Jim Hoover who owned the video camera and who took the video. Brad focuses on how horrible it was that Hoover allegedly wanted to sell the video …
while Brad totally evades questioning about WHO sent Dominic out there to that specific spot and WHO Dominic was on the phone with.

At 2:51 minutes on the video – Brad says the video is “our property”, but the irony is that he has yet to see the video! As it is playing on Geraldo’s show.

At 3:04 minutes – Geraldo says: Now here’s my question for you Brad – we are told that Dominic Casey had specific information, even GRAPHICS AND MAPS that led him to this area, where of course, dramatically, almost four weeks later, the little body was found.” Why was he there? Who gave you that inside information? Did you have any admissions from the accused mother, 22 year old Casey Anthony? What brought you to this specific place, of all the places on earth? Brad Conway?

Here is an interesting comment on that YouTube site:
adijaysgirl
i can’t even watch geraldo anymore without feeling bulimic, i have to run to the bathroom & puke afterwards. geraldo talks about people being greedy? although i believe that hoover is a shady individual himself, i don’t believe he demanded money from geraldo. the video was already given to channel 9 for free, and was already on the internet. why ask for money for something already out there? geraldo made that up to help feed doubt & aid the defense. geraldo is baez’ biatch.

NOTE: Kathi Belich is on Nancy Grace the same day that Geraldo is talking to Brad Conway about the video, Jan 12, 2009, saying she saw and HEARD the same video that Geraldo is saying Hoover tried to “sell”. Kathi said her station, WFTV, was allowed to record a small portion of the 12 minute video, with NO AUDIO recorded. (FREE of course)

WSH:

That was basically my point.I do not know if they have PTSD, but if they do, then some allowances will need to be made if they are tried for hindering or lying to LE or fraud. The situation is the kind of situation where PTSD could arise, so it will need to be considered going forward. If they are determined not to have it, then they deserve normal penalties. If they are determined to have it, then it should color the charges brought against them if any are.

July 24, 2008 police interview with George, I noticed a statement that I hadn’t noticed before. George said, about Lee, ‘we sort of switched roles.’ (paraphrasing)

The family order and George’s changed role from the early years of marriage, to Lee’s increasing role as a support figure in the family, seems that role switch happened much earlier than July 2008.

Why is this so important to investigators, besides the fact that Cindy was controlling and George put his own career aside to end up as a rent-a-cop? What significance does this have for the investigation and the prosecution?

The full, original version of this interview isn’t on YouTube, and the whole 75 minute interview on wftv, is cut off probably an hour early (just isn’t there). The complete version is on http://www.cfnews13.com under ‘audio’. (this is the interview that George takes the initiative to secretly visit OSCO investigators and even Lee is unaware that his father was there, and it is also the interview where George has to leave the interview room feeling ill. Lee is called in to meet up with investigators, thinking George was also called in, both men to listen to the 911 calls before they are released to the public).

http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/Audio/GeorgeAnthonyInterviewJuly24.WMA

Kleat, I have read that George was kept in the dark about a lot of things. Perhaps LE was trying to determine if any ONE of the Anthonys might know more about the disappearance of Caylee.

To the little grad school research project re: black banding, which was covered so well by Val in her own article, Dr. Baden was caught on camera stating that a death band or changes in the root of the hair, can happen within about 10 hrs of death. In the same FoxNews video report, Baden says about the smell of decomposition coming from pizza, he says ‘not’. Ironic that his wife is saying otherwise in Casey’s defense.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_40WGWqOTDk&feature=related

JAIL VISITS in relation to KC visits with Baez and other defense attorneys and the preacher,
around the time Dominic is searching in woods, and the time that the FBI has the video of Dominic searching, and around the time of the interview where Cindy looks majorly drugged

- Dominic in woods Nov 15 and 16th and 2 other times (unknown)
- Hoover shows Leonard P the Dominic searching video Dec 16th or 17th
- FBI takes video next day Dec 17th or 18th
- Leonard says on Nancy Grace that Hoover showed him the Dominic searching video
on Dec. 29, 2008 (now the public knows about the video)
Jan 12, 2009 – Kathi Belich/WFTV and Geraldo are showing parts of the
Dominic searching video to the public
- Cindy looks drugged on video Nov. 21, 2008 (she later told LE that SHE sent
“someone” to look in the woods in November)

VISITS BY PASTOR
- Thomas Shane Stutzman – preacher visits KC
Oct 24, 2008 (ONE MINUTE)
Dec 5, 2008 (2 hours)
Dec 16, 2008 (3 hours – day that Hoover shows Leonard P the
Dominic searching video)
(did Cindy ask preacher to go visit KC?)
Dec 19, 2008 (20 minutes – day after FBI takes Dominic
searching video)
NO OTHER “Jail Ministries” visits

VISITS BY BAEZ (and other Defense attys) – around the day Dominic is in woods
searching (Cindy sent him there)
Nov 7, 2008 Baez (10:29pm to 11:18pm – 45 min)
Nov 7, 2008 Baez (4:59pm to 6:26pm – 1 1/2 hrs) – second visit same day
Nov 9, 2008 atty Garcia (7:00pm to 2:45am the NEXT DAY Nov 10th – 8 HOURS!!!)
[5 days later Dominic is in the woods searching]
Nov 10, 2008 Baez (9:17pm to 10:21pm – 1 hr)
Nov 11, 2008 atty Garcia or “jail ministries”? (7:03pm to 9:30pm – 2 1/2 hrs)
Nov 12, 2008 Baez (6:45pm to 8:20pm – almost 2 hours)
Nov 13, 2008 Baez (10:49pm to 11:43pm – 1 hour); AND Atty Garcia (11:28pm to 11:43pm-15 min)
Nov 15, 2008 Baez (4:55pm to 6:05pm -1 hr) – Dominic is in woods this day
Nov 18, 2008 Baez (7:15pm to 8:49pm- 1 hr+)
Nov 19, 2008 Baez (7:09pm to 8:50pm – 2 hrs); AND Atty Garcia (7:11pm to 8:50pm -same 2 hrs)
Nov 23, 2008 Atty Garcia (10:53pm to next day?) (Cindy looks drugged on the 21st)
Nov 25, 2008 Baez (8:31pm to 9:30pm – 1 hr)
Nov 26, 2008 Baez (8:30pm to 9:27pm – 1 hr)
Nov 29, 2008 Atty Garcia (8:07am to 10:31am – 2 1/2 hrs)
Nov 30, 2008 Baez (5:07pm to 6:53pm – 2 hrs)

Dec 8, 2008 Atty Adam (8:47pm to 10:04pm – 1 hr+)
Dec 9, 2008 Atty Adam (8:45pm to 9:36pm – 1 hr)
Dec 10, 2008 Atty Adam (9:44pm to 4:39am NEXT DAY -Dec 11th – 7 HOURS
[Caylee FOUND - Dec 11th - Did they know Caylee would be found next day?]
Dec 11, 2008 – KC had visitors for 11 hours of 24 hours in the day
Caylee found about 9:30am
Atty Adam (night before at 9:44pm to 4:39am on the 11th – 7 HOURS)
Baez (11:55am to 1:33pm – 1 1/2 hrs)
Atty Garcia (4:43pm to 8:23pm – almost 4 hrs)
Baez again (8:04pm to 9:05pm – 1 hr)

Dec 14, 2008 Atty Garcia again (10:27pm to 11:32pm – 1 hr)
(my break in listing visitors)

Dec 17, 2008 Baez visits again, a WEEK after Caylee found!
(10:31pm to 11:07pm) – the day that Hoover shows LP the video of
Dominic searching in woods – FBI takes video next day

Dec 18, 2008 Atty Garcia 6:40am to 7:35am – 1 hr)
same day – Atty Adam (7:07am to 8:22am – 1 1/2 hr)

Dec 19, 2008 Atty Garcia (11:41 to 3:21pm – 3 1/2 hrs) – FBI has the Dominic
searching video now
same day – preacher Thomas Stutzman visits (1:59pm to 2:18pm – 20min)
same day – Baez visits (2:32pm to 3:21pm – 1 hr after preacher visits)
same day – Atty Adam visits (8:56pm to 9:49pm – 1 hr)

Dec 22, 2008 (8:04pm to 9:28pm – 1 1/2 hrs) before Christmas
Dec 26, 2008 (8:25pm to 9:18pm – 1 hr) after Christmas

Thanks Thinker.

It really does seem like something serious went down in November around the DC searches.

Just a thought, maybe considered before at some point. Is it possible D.C was at the remains site to PLANT EVIDENCE ? Think about it. Baez and the whole defense team kept accusing L.E. of destroying evidence when the scene was being processed. They went to court to try to be included in the discovery. If everyone (Anthony’s) knew the body was there, planting exculpatory evidence to point at some one else could allow the child to be found, the defense assuming (incorrectly) they would be allowed in to the site so Henry Lee could locate this “som teen” important to the case, vindicate K.C., and voila everyone’s happy. But nothing ever goes as planned, it’s a hell of a notion…

@Danna: I don’t at all disagree that Casey had a history of lying and all forms of
dysfunctional behavior that her parents made excuses about and never held her
accountable for. My point is that I also think that what she was lying about and
hiding was a double life that they knew nothing about and couldn’t possibly imagine.
They knew she was lying but not necessarily where she really was, which might have
been drug dealing, prostitution, etc. I think there was something going on that
her friends and family had no idea about and that’s why all the lies. They knew
she was lying but not where she was or what she was involved in. There’s still a
big rubicon to cross between her dysfunctional suburban family life vs. criminal thug
life. Her parents “have issues” but they’re not hardcore like her other world was.
Even now they are still trying to put her in the context of normal reality.
They still don’t get it.

» Monica said: { Feb 8, 2010 – 02:02:13 }
“vs. criminal thug life.”

Head scratching…

Monica

There isn’t anything that we have seen in discovery that indicates a criminal thug life. Criminal, yes. She stole money from EVERYONE. That they knew about, for years running. I just don’t see any of the friends or acquaintances coming across as thugs. Or as drug dealers, for that matter.

A lot of the party pictures have friends making hand signs which might be interpreted as gang related. That could be classified as thug life, no?

William, no:

thug
One entry found.

Main Entry: thug
Pronunciation: \ˈthəg\
Function: noun
Etymology: Hindi & Urdu ṭhag, literally, thief
Date: 1810

: a brutal ruffian or assassin : gangster, tough

— thug·gery \ˈthə-g(ə-)rē\ noun

— thug·gish \ˈthə-gish\ adjective

a cruel or vicious ruffian, robber, or murderer.
2.
(sometimes initial capital letter) one of a former group of professional robbers and murderers in India who strangled their victims.

Also she mentions at least one friend that had something to do with drugs and that she was really into hanging with for awhile, right? Seems like I remember something about that….

We haven’t heard anything about violent criminal histories of any of these people.

WSH:

I was being sarcastic.

She smoked pot. A lot of kids her age do. But hand gestures do not a gang member make, maybe they were a bunch of ‘posers’.

I know where the word thug comes from. I have used that fact in word games before.

Sorry William

Somewhere I saw a sarcasm symbol. That might be helpful, at times !

Assassin comes from a similar start.

Adding to my other post:

If Cindy was a nurse, she would have had to have taken a course, at some point on drug use and abuse. She would have to be at least vaguely aware that teens and twenty somethings may use drugs, at least recreationally. She is not June Cleaver, residing in the 1950’s in Orlando.

I left out a bunch of commas, oh well. Here they are ,, .

I know this has probably been talked to death elsewhere, but one of the most puzzling questions I have grappled with – unsuccessfully – is, where was Casey all day, every day, if she didn’t have a job? Did she hang out at Starbucks all day? Shlep back and forth between Target and Walmart? Pull in to a parking space and yak on her phone? What did she do all day?

I don’t seriously think she was working as a call girl, because she wouldn’t have had to steal money to pay her phone bill every month. And I just can’t picture it. All her relationships with men were about over-commiting, seeing each man she talked to as a potential husband/savior/rescuer. She was just too desperate with men for me to believe she was using them for a, um, career.

Hi Valhall,
This is my first post on your site and I just had to let you know what an EXCELLENT insight you have on this case! I have followed Casey Anthony from the start and read other sites as well, just not one to post too often. I love what you put on here for us to ponder over, totally giving us a new direction to go in and think about…this has become my favorite place to go to read what is going on in your mind and all the the great, insightful followers of your site. I hope to possibly become a regular poster, because you motivate me to want to voice my opion and share my thoughts. I love the regulars on here and just wanted to tell you “You Rock” and keep up the outstanding job you do. BTW, I feel Casey NEVER had to worry about a back story once she possibly admitted what really happened to little Caylee since she knew for a fact Cindy would be there to clean up her mess as always….this is how the household was always ran, Casey was never allowed or given the opportunity to think for herself and knew the death of her daughter would be no different. JMO

Just listened to the first interview of George on the sly again, (without Cindy and Lee knowing) and it hit me that LE realized right then and there at that interview that George was the weak link….NO DOUBT

I looked for a bit through old blog entries on the topic of the ‘diary of death’, the journal that in Casey’s own handwriting that detailed out the mercy killing of Caylee so she wouldn’t suffer being brought up by Cindy.

Has this already been discussed and if so, where?

WSH,

Awww! Thanks for the commas. You are such a thoughtful soul.

Nikki,

Might it not be that she just hung around, close by, waiting for everyone else to leave, and then went back home?

This will be my sarcasm symbol from now on.

>snert< William….that's the one with the lipstick….

lol lol lol

she may have been an opertunist theif but she was no career criminal ,She didnt have a job therefore no pay checks no insurence ect.How does control freak Cindy tally the fact her daughter was in full employment tons of overtime yet never a paycheck in site Im not sure she even had a valid bank acount?How ever It wouldnt suprise me if Casey was involved in escort work thats cash in hand an may even explain the mystery of Caylees father perhaps he was a regular cute guy that paid extra for a bareback ride no condom………

I am hoping someone can tell me what they think of these pics…I find them very disturbing and very telling at the same time…These photos are taken at a private party. It appears (to me at least) to be a swinger/orgy type party for several reasons. 1. In one photos you see a girl fully clothed,in another shot you see her with her top pulled down and a wife beater under it. 2. In another photo you see the girls giving lap dnaces and grinding on different guys. 3. Casey is making out with a girl. 4. Casey is making out with 2 girls at once. 5. casey is laying on the ground as a girl is standing over her with her legs spread and Caseys hand on her thigh. 6. All the guys are sitting around watching,like they are at a strip joint or something. Thoughts, anyone? (This is a myspace account so you must be logged in. Thanks!
http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewPicture&friendID=458301234&albumId=777997

Celeste:

There are so many ’scenarios’ that come to mind when I view these photos…Regardless of which one I try to ‘fit’ to match the photos, my thoughts are instantly drowned out by Cindy’s voice saying ‘She’s young, all 22 year olds like to have fun’ (insert a couple ‘ya know’s, somewhere in that statement)

I either read, or heard Cindy say something to the effect above.

Argh…

It appears to me that Cindy is way past Casey being ‘gone’ from home. In fact, aside from her shedding a tear (not sure if it was a ‘dry’ tear, a la Casey), during the check fraud hearing, she didn’t appear too bad, considering her MOTY was being convicted for grand theft, in part, due to Cindy herself, allowing her to get away with all the previous thieving. On the contrary, Cindy arrived smiling and participating in a hug fest (as if she is at some social country club function), with the defense.

I know and agree that everyone grieves differently yada, yada, yada, however, given the unbelievable circumstances regarding this entire tragedy, it appears that Cindy ‘moved on’ from Caylee’s demise rather quickly (Dec. 11th social night at the Ritz, confirmed it for me)…It only stands to reason that when it comes to Casey, pfff, it’s no big deal.

So when I hear Cindy play the broken record of ‘me and George really wanna see Casey but we can’t’ , yada, yada, yada, her OTHER previous comment of ‘I don’t care where Casey’s at’ plays in the forefront of my mind – LOUD and CLEAR.

I’d almost be willing to bet that Cindy is fairly content with where Casey’s at…
(but ‘ya know’, she’s gotta ‘ya know’, keep up the tight knit, I believe in Casey B.S.

JMO

@WSH: I disagree. There are widespread claims that Fusian – and Tony L.’s agency -
were/are also a front for various activities like drugs + prostitution and that possibly someone was pimping girls out of an apartment at Sawgrass. I’ve heard that in many places. Also there are many references to Casey and many of her friends’ drug use -
frequent pot smoking and ? what else with Ricardo, Tony and roomates, that Amy was
once a big heroin user, etc. There was also one guy who came forward claiming that
he was a paid escort client of Casey’s and that she worked for an agency called -
I think it was Sweet Angels – or something like that – and that she was at times
traveling to different places to meet Johns through this pimp agency. I think that
on one hand Casey might have been looking for the proverbial knight in shining armor,
but on another she went through many guys with who she was just “workin’ it”
using them for whatever she could in the moment. There is a trail of way too many
men to think that she was making marriage and future plans with all of them and
many of these guys seemed like the typical fall guy, suckers. Also when you look at
her digital pictures and online action, the violent and sociopathic nature is clear.
There was some other heavier negative influence than Mom and Dad going on.
What you see is someone connecting with criminal culture and a violent dramatic
detachment typical of a meth user. Meth-heads typically become very action-oriented,
narcissistic, dramatic, unfeeling and disconnected from reality. From the perspective
of a lot of bad drug use you can better understand how she was able to do something
so horrible and never connect with the human reality of it. Her family might be nuts
but they’re not the Bundy family. I don’t doubt that there’s profound dysfunction there,
but many many people come from dysfunctional homes and don’t turn murderous.
Something else was going on with her, another part of her life that she kept to
herself and didn’t share with closest friends and family. It would also explain the
constant lying and large blocks of time she was missing that no one could account for.
Or why she’d always have cash on hand. She got cash and credit from Cindy but not
24/7. The term “thug life” is popular slang for any type of underground or “gangsta”
activity. You will see it frequently in rap and hip hop, etc. – where these kids refer
to themselves as gangsters or thugs, either real or fantasized. Violent narcissistic
sociopath lifestyles are widely glamorized by the media and Hollywood. So these
kids think they are being cool and have no idea the gravity of what they’re
getting into until it’s too late. Casey’s attitudes are typical of a young person trying
to be hip and cool and fit in with that kind of crowd.

Just because something is repeated often doesn’t make it true. There is no evidence I’ve seen that Tony’s company/Fusion Lounge were a front for drugs and prostitution. And pot smoking does not make someone guilty of a drug-fueled lifestyle. As far as her being a meth-head, it’s not adding up. Meth is expensive and the signs of her being a heavy user would have become really, really, obvious over time.

And the guy that came forward saying he paid Casey for sex? His statement was clearly false as far as timing, so I wouldn’t put any hope in its veracity in any other way.

Nikki B. said – Meth is expensive and the signs of her being a heavy user would have become really, really, obvious over time.

Meth is very inexpensive and easy to get (at least that’s the way it is where I live), but I agree that Casey did not show physical signs of being a tweeker (bad skin, rotting teeth, severe weight loss). A few of my nephews and one of my nieces are tweekers. I have seen up close what it does to a person both mentally and physically. While Casey seems to have started using drugs more heavily in 2008, she did not need drugs to become the horrible human being she was and is. She was a sociopath long before she took up with Ricardo, Tony and company.

» Monica said: { Feb 9, 2010 – 01:02:21 }
“There was also one guy who came forward claiming that
he was a paid escort client of Casey’s and that she worked for an agency called -
I think it was Sweet Angels – or something like that – and that she was at times
traveling to different places to meet Johns through this pimp agency”

Do you have a link or links? Also, we have no definitive evidence of Amy as a heroine user other than from Lee ( and I wouldn’t call that definitive). Lee was admittedly tossing around bullshit.

You also said,”these kids refer
to themselves as gangsters or thugs, either real or fantasized.”

Exactly. It is a huge leap to assert that because they were posers that they were violent, without some kind of evidence. Even some rappers aren’t quite the thugs either. Looking cool and being gang members is two entirely different things.

Right now everything that you have stated is rumor and not substantiated by evidence.

I’m going to have to agree, Monica. There is no evidence of meth use, violent gang activity (any gang activity for that matter), and/or Casey turning tricks.

So, let’s just either produce the evidence or drop it.

» Monica said: { Feb 9, 2010 – 01:02:21 }

i’m sorry Monica but your post made me LOL

I guess for some poeple who have never lived in an Urban setting this must seem possible ..i don’t know…but anyway these kids are CLEARLY not “gangstas” or “thugs”

Geez they are in college and have legitmate jobs..never met a thug who had either

Valhall,

Hello! I have a question, the Anthony’s say KC is a good mother … they also say there is no proof of any child abuse either. Well, we can’t count on KC’s friends statements to that because they never had kids, I mean, they might have siblings which is different. KC’s friends never said KC was a bad mother but then, we know for a fact that Caylee was with KC and Caylee slept on the couch while KC was drinking beer and playing cards, this is just one time but even so maybe there were more, can’t remember now. To me this is not a good environment for a kid to be brought up. Also, is there any medical records from Caylee? Don’t you have to take your kid to the Pediatrician every month after you give a birth to a baby, it’s not just having a baby there is a lot of things we have to follow up. KC didn’t have a job for 2 years and there was no reason to have a nanny. Well, this is just my opinion.

P. S. I meant child neglect, not child abuse. Sorry!!!

Because i have a 4month old i will answer your question re doc apts FRG..baby’s first visit is @ 2wks, then 1month, then about 4 months, then 1yr old visit, and at least annually after that to recieve all the required immunizations. So yes Caylee should absolutely have medical records especially with Cindy being a nurse you would think she would at least make sure Caylee recieved her vaccines

oh and in my opinion Casey was Not a good mother lol it’s comical to think anyone would describe her as a good mother besides an Anthony

» Mrs C Hop said: { Feb 9, 2010 – 12:02:37 }
Because i have a 4month old i will answer your question re doc apts FRG..baby’s first visit is @ 2wks, then 1month, then about 4 months, then 1yr old visit, and at least annually after that to recieve all the required immunizations. So yes Caylee should absolutely have medical records especially with Cindy being a nurse you would think she would at least make sure Caylee recieved her vaccines

Sorry meant to say 2wks, 1month, 2months, then about 4months

Mrs C Hop,
Thank you! Congratulations on your baby!!!
My baby is not a baby anymore, he is 23 now and I really miss those times when he was growing up. Time passes too fast.
Somebody told me KC told Caylee’s doctor’s name was Dr. Silva. I have a bad memory so I have to go back and read KC’s statements again. We can’t count on KC’s words right? She has been lying so much… maybe Dr. Silva is not an imaginary doctor.

Many of Casey’s friends, if not all of them (now ‘former’, I would assume) have all pretty much said Casey was ‘a good mom’. Regardless if they had kids or not (therefore, having some reference as to what makes ‘a good mom’, I highly doubt Casey would dare ‘abuse’ Caylee while in their presence! Ditto , when being around her parents.
(I am aware that she dragged her to parties, etc. – I am not referring this type of abuse.)

Casey had an ‘image’ to maintain…her abusing Caylee in their presence would NOT tie into her ‘Caylee is my life/focus’ BS…and that ever elusive Mother of the Year Prize.

thank you!! my baby’s 4month apt is coming up next week and they are going to give her shots and make her cry

i do not know Casey or her friends, i only say she was not a good mother in my opinion because of all the instances we know of where she puts her own wants and needs before her own daughters. I understand some people do not view being dragged to parties, or being in the bed with her mother and her boyfriends as abuse but…..it sure was not in Caylee’s best interest and probably did cause her some mental anguish, selfish biatch!

I think it is clear that Casey was a neglectful mother. All one needs to assess is her prenatel care. Casey had her first prenatel appointment 8 and 1/2 months into her pregnancy. What caring person does such a thing? None. Casey was neglectful from day one. Even Cindy had to have been appalled by the fact that Casey had not gone through any of the requisite prenatel appointments until Casey could no longer hide her pregnancy.

We also have friends accounts of Casey leaving Caylee alone while Casey was in other rooms or on the phone. One friend even told LE that Caylee was out on a balcony unattended. So much for Cindy saying none of Casey’s friends have said a thing about Casey’s parenting skills.

Of course we have the unsubstantiated, but highly likely scenario that zani the nanny was zanax the nanny.

Valhall – ITA…..Casey’s friends actually went to college and worked real jobs, if ya cant produce evidence to the contrary, imo its just more BS to make others look worse to make Casey look better.

Also, while I do believe Casey killed her child, I am not going to jump to the conclusion that she turned tricks or condemn her or her family for things that havent been backed up with evidence. They have plenty to answer for without going there.

“Of course we have the unsubstantiated, but highly likely scenario that Zani the Nanny
was Xanax the Nanny.”
So true Mel, and because of that thought, I think that finding a person to fit Zani was a main priority. I can also see because of this that Cindy had a more informed role…..
God Bless Caylee, she certainly wasn’t the priority that the picture taking by Cindy had us all thinking that she was.

Hi . You also have to remember that most of the friends that casey was hanging with in the last while are new friends , these aren,t the same group of she grew up with . I think casey envied them , they had their own apt. , no kids , no parents , partied , met for drinks , no one to answer to but themselves ! Being the only one that had a child left casey at a disadvantage , she couldn,t just drop everything and go with them .. unless cindy would keep caylee . She had to one up them with all the lies about her fantastic job being a event planner , lies about how much was in her bank account , lies about getting a house , in casey’s head that made her the better one . I don,t see that casey would be doing much drug wise other than a little pot , its clear that casey stole for herself and most of that went on her back and phone , or food to try to get tony to see what a catch she was .I bet all those new friends ask for police checks of any new “friends ” they meet !!

In my opinion, all the picture taking, pretty clothes and toys, is what The Anthony’s and Casey would have everyone think is ‘proof’ that they took care of Caylee (in my opinion, they tend to equate possessions with love).

As one knows, ‘pretty clothes and toys’ do not equate with love, guidance and well being, not only regarding an adult, but much less for a baby/child.

I have an inkling, this was a contributing factor to Casey’s already defective character/personality/person…

Cindy PROBABLY provided her (KC) with ‘pretty clothes and toys’ while growing up, yet never provided her with the essential nurturing, guidance and ACCOUNTABILITY that goes with being a parent helping shape their offspring into contributing members of society.

To that end, I feel that had Caylee survived this ’survival of the fittest’ life theme, that the Anthony’s seem to live, the CYCLE of toys, clothes, no GUIDANCE, would most likely have resulted in ‘history repeats itself’.

I just realized (as I typed the history repeats itself line above), that perhaps, Cindy herself, may have grown up under the same circumstances as Casey (spoiled!), thus ‘history repeats itself’ was passed to Casey, thus passed to Caylee…

NOTE: I am not in anyway saying Cindy’s mother didn’t raise Cindy in a most loving atmosphere, as nothing has been testified to (unless I missed it), however, it is something to ponder…at least in my own mind.

In the end, it is my opinion, that Casey was born missing a major chip, combined with being raised by the role models in her life, namely Cindy and George, the outcome that came to pass, was inevitable.

All of the above is strictly my opinion…

Winterbelle –

You should read Cindy’s mother’s interview with police. A great read(especially the emails between shirley and her sister). In my opinion the most honest and forthright of the bunch. She seems like a great and funny lady and i don’t see any of the Cindy/Casey mannerisms in Shirley….

i think cindy’s got some issue’s but casey was really just a “bad egg” happenes sometimes i guess…

Ms. C Hop-

I have read the emails between Shirley and her sister…and I agree wholeheartedly that Shirley, for all intents and purposes seems to be levelheaded, etc.

Waving white flag:
I would like to clarify that I am not saying with any kind of authority, that Cindy was raised by parents or family members, just as she (Cindy) raised Casey.

As I stated earlier, my opinion, speculation, etc., on how Cindy herself, may have been raised, is something that I question(ed) and ponder (almost naturally, I might add), since it is apparent that Cindy shares and DISPLAYS many of the troubling characteristics we have seen, and come to know about Casey, SELFISHNESS and INCESSANT LYING, to name a few.

http://www.wesh.com/news/22513305/detail.html
New Motion Filed In Case Against Casey
Baez Hopes To Gain Access To Search Group’s Records

POSTED: 4:47 pm EST February 9, 2010
UPDATED: 5:07 pm EST February 9, 2010
ORLANDO, Fla. –

Casey Anthony’s defense has filed a new motion Tuesday they hope will help gain them access to all of Texas Equusearch’s records.

In that motion Anthony’s attorney, Jose Baez, said the group that aided in the search for Caylee Anthony, Casey’s daughter, recently made search records available to the media.

In court, Equusearch argued that revealing such information could have a “chilling effect” on future volunteers.

Anthony’s defense argues that in light of recent disclosures to the media, “there is no reason to prevent disclosure to Miss Anthony as well.”

mmmm I read Cindy depositions regarding Caseys murder case last night an there were many red flags to me that she was perjureing herself left an right.Forinstance on being questioned about the night she made the three . 911 calls an the initial police responce ect She was explaining how she had given the officer she thought was in charge Zannys phone number from her address book she initialy stated it was the only number I had listed under Z so I just ripped the page out of my address book my panda book .When asked to clarify she slightly changed an said she didnt rip a whole page out of the book but rather a sticky post it sticker?She didnt have the number written down in her book at all but on a post it.She said the reason for this was that as Zanny Freqently changed her number she didnt bother to write them in her book.So how did she know that?When Casey originaly gave her the first number that Zanny was going to be changeing her number all the time she s already stated that the z portion of her adress book was blank an yet she is saying that the first number Casey gave her she wrote on a post it an then the second number an ultimateley the third number all on disspoable post its an of course she d isisspossed of the previous two numbers written on the post its.No other numbers in her book were written in that fashion.It may just be the cynic in me but it looks as if they were desprately trying to create a history for Zanny also I watched a video on u tube or somewere were Cindy an George were visiting Casey in jail an she tells them that Zanny had a key to the house Cindy an George apeared supprised at this An yet in her deposition Cindy states that she new very well that the nanny had a key an had disscussed it in detail with Cassey an Cindy even says that she was informed that when Casey broke up with Jessie Grund that the spare key he had had to the house was retreived from him an given to Zanny ffs?She then goes on to say that to her knowlage Zanny had even entered ther house with the key on ocassions to collect bit an peices for Caylee.Im sure the prousicuters will have picked up on thease and many other dissscrepances in her actions an statements and were simply getting it all on record letting her dig herself an her daughter deeper an deeper in a hole anlike the shallow grave given to her beloved grandaughter Caylee cant wait untill she is cross examined in the trial an ripped a new one

An she also added whilst talking about the key that Zanny allegedly had possesion of that the key was still unacounted for…Ah well case closed theres a key missing that Zanny had that explains every thing

Now, if we could only find that darn key, that would lead us directly to Zanny!

Cindy is definitely one for the books (a CRIME book, of course)…

*****************************************************************************

» esossie possie said: { Feb 9, 2010 – 07:02:30 }

An she also added whilst talking about the key that Zanny allegedly had possesion of that the key was still unacounted for…Ah well case closed theres a key missing that Zanny had that explains every thing

I came across the below comment, in the comment section under WFTV’s story from Tuesday, regarding the motion that Jose/Defense filed (requesting TES’s searchers’ records)…
I know there is nothing funny about this case, however, I found the comment hilarious…I literally laughed out loud.

*****************************************************************************************

BREAKING NEWS-

ORLANDO, FL- 1:30am, 2/10/2010

Undisclosed sources have reported that the Crazey Scamthony duh-fense team wants all of the letters, from the Orlando, Florida area, that were addressed to Santa Claus from children ages 2 to 10, during the past two years.
Undisclosed sources further report that the duh-fense team feels that Santa Claus had free access to the Scamthony home shortly before Christmas, and constitutes a credible witness, if not a potential suspect.
When asked why Santa Claus was a possible suspect, given that Caylee was killed BEFORE Christmas, 2008, a duh-fense spokesperson would only say, “That’s beside the point…!!!”

butch1224410 (02/10/2010, 1:43 AM )

******************************************************************************************

Oops…the story I read (and comments included) are from the Orlando Sentinal (online)

FRG said: { Feb 9, 2010 – 12:02:11 }
Mrs C Hop,
Thank you! Congratulations on your baby!!!
My baby is not a baby anymore, he is 23 now and I really miss those times when he was growing up. Time passes too fast.
Somebody told me KC told Caylee’s doctor’s name was Dr. Silva. I have a bad memory so I have to go back and read KC’s statements again. We can’t count on KC’s words right? She has been lying so much… maybe Dr. Silva is not an imaginary doctor.

..maybe this dr.?

……”Dr. Miguel Silva practices Pediatrics in Orlando, Florida. Dr. Silva graduated with an MD 28 years ago.”

http://www.healthgrades.com/directory_search/physician/profiles/dr-md-reports/Dr-Miguel-Silva-MD-8DCF51E0.cfm

……………and regarding meth——-i’ve known “meth-heads” ——she would have needed some serious down time once in jail, had she been a meth user prior to going in.

Hi all…sorry but strangely enough, the events of my life were more compelling today
and I didn’t get time to be a no life maggot blogger. Re: references for my theories,
I can only say that I never kept a log of that data, just cited info I’ve come across
throughout the case. The man who claims that he was a client of Casey’s at an escort
service does have a video on YouTube. I’m certain it’s still there somewhere.
If I get a block of spare time I’ll try to look for it. I didn’t fabricate that. Not expecting
to be blogging about this, I never kept a log to be able to cite all the sources for the
info and impressions I’ve gathered, unfortunately, but will be conscious to do so
if I come across more significant pieces of info in the future. A few examples of
drug use references might be the police interviews where Tony, Ricardo and at least
one other roommate discuss Casey smoking pot. There’s the inmate letter alleging
her theft of cocaine, which may or may not be true. There are text messages where
Amy talks about non-specified good drug experiences around a concert and
being a frequent alcohol drinker. There was Richard Grund making various
allegations about what happened at Fusian and around Tony’s group. Etc.
Her parents are for sure dysfunctional but so far they’ve not proven to be psychotic.
There just had to be other more sinister influences going on besides her suburban
princess home life. And there are large blocks of time that no one – not friends
or family or boyfriends – knows anything at all about her whereabouts. Some
essential missing pieces remain unanswered.

Hi All – didn’t know if you caught the story yesterday of the Florida man who got 18 months for killing a toddler: http://www.wftv.com/news/22511285/detail.html

If Casey would just open her yap, concoct some story of an accidental drowning, she’s just about served that time now, right?

I don’t believe Casey did anything more than smoke pot with her buddies. She may have hung out with the party people, but she needed to keep her wits about her so that she could use and manipulate the people around her. She probably stole cash from all of them without them even being aware of it. She hung out with college kids with various schedules, and within different friend groups. I think she could keep her whole day busy hopping from friend to friend because she knew the movement of everyone around her.

Stupid, stupid girl. There’s tons of things she could have done if she wanted to be a bum. Donate eggs, clinical trials, give plazma, blood, etc. She chose to be a bloodsucker and erase her child. The only sinister influence is her own little brain.

Morning everybody!!!
This is an article from T&T, I like the way she explains things.
http://sprocket-trials.blogspot.com/2010/02/casey-anthonys-attorneys-want-it-all.html
I agree the defense is in a fishing expedition. I didn’t agree with Judge Strickland when he allowed the 32 volunteers info to be handed over to the defense. It is not fair to the people who went out there to search for little Caylee… he has been fair to Ms. Anthony but now it is time to step up for Caylee and stop JB’s nonsense. I am sick and tired of the defense… it’s time for them to get serious. IMHO

» Monica said: { Feb 10, 2010 – 06:02:05 }
Hi all…sorry but strangely enough, the events of my life were more compelling today
and I didn’t get time to be a no life maggot blogger. Re: references for my theories,
I can only say that I never kept a log of that data, just cited info I’ve come across
throughout the case. The man who claims that he was a client of Casey’s at an escort
service does have a video on YouTube.

I guess Monica you’re referring to all of us who challenged you or wondered about your comments about thugs, heroin/meth use and prostitution as “no life maggot bloggers” hmmmm ok.

Seriously, most of us saw that dumb youtube video of that freak claiming that Casey spent a week with him. I mean, come on! That guy has ZERO credibility and all of his dates, etc. are wrong.

There is plenty of bad behavior by Casey and her family that is documented by evidence as well as credible interviews of those closest to them. Just because we can’t stand Casey doesn’t make it ok to build a fantasy lifestyle for her that just didn’t exist. By all accounts, she was a very small time user of recreational drugs. She certainly wasn’t a heroin or meth user. She was a consummate liar. She wasn’t a hooker. She was a detached and possibly abusive mother. She wasn’t laundering drug money or pimping out her Fusian friends.

She is a narcissistic completely self-absorbed horrible person who killed her own daughter. The thing that makes the case so interesting is that from the outside looking in – she could be the girl next door – like so many other girls but she’s not. It would not be as interesting if she was a drugged-up tweaking crack ho that was living on the wrong side of life with no family supporting her. We’ve seen too many of those sad cases where the children pay dearly but at least we know what went wrong without too much speculation.

no life maggot blogger

I think I’m going to change my sign in name to that. It has a nice ring to it.

I revisited G.A.’s VOLUNTARY interview with LE. He does like JB, he has bad feelings about him, he states that JB is wanting meida attention. He says he asked JB why he had to testify at KC’s bond hrg. what was the purpose of it? This is very telling, G.A. already knew KC killed the baby he verifes it by stating “I don’t want to believe that I raised someone to hurt anyone, but, if goes that way please let me know so I can prepare my wife”. He also states “don’t want to admit it but that smell I have smelled before in LE” he states “please don’t let this be, please don’t let this be and after he realizes KC is accounted for he knew in his heart and gut it could only be Caylee…

I don’t care much about his actions after that interview, he does have the whole picture. I do believe he got lost and succumbed to Cindy’s way one more time possibly to help Cindy in her belief that her daughter that she gave birth to couldn’t do this. He knows all too well the process of the charges and why. I feel that although he went crazy no one saw his pain and fear, so since no one was willing to see it, he became defensive and combative it was easier. I also feel that the reason he did not assist in searching for Caylee was out of fear of the public’s physical attacks. I would be to. He readily admits that Cindy screwed EVERYTHING up and she did. He says in this interview that he wanted to talk to LE but he got out voted by Lee and Cindy. He said they said he was too pro cop.

He states the bag was not over the stain he saw in the trunk. When he called Lee to go check on Cindy on 7/15/08 he told Lee, KC in a lot of trouble worried about mom. He never indicated to Lee he was worried about KC. Him standing up for Cindy’s lies is wrong but IMO he knows she is wrong. I hope he gets the help he will need after KC is convicted and that he gets as far away from Cindy as possible. She is the one that caused G.A. to pick the wrong side, and although he knows right from wrong, he gave her what no one else ever will again, support.

I meant he does not like Jose Baez, neither do a lot of people.

maura, let me try to clarify my point regarding the silver focus. when casey changed her story to blanchard park, she told lee and lp that on june16, 2008, caylee was kidnapped by zg, who, according to casey, was driving a silver ford focus on june 16,2008. however, we know that cindy, in her depo, stated that zg drove a maroon toyota. zg’s stepdad bought zg the ford after the “accident”,which happened after june 16, 2008. yes, after cindy called 911 about caylee being kidnapped, police were looking for the focus. but, casey stated that on june 16, 2008, zg was driving a silver forf focus. not true. she was driving a toyota. all of this crap is moot, because none of that ever happened. i believe, after reading val’s article on bp, that cindy told caylee what to say regarding the bp incident to lp, and casey complied. my point—-cindy nor casey had enough sense to remember that zg was supposed to own a toyota at the time of the bp kidnapping. whew, that was a lot of writing for ‘notin, because it never happened. hope i made sense, if not, just throw it away in your mind. i certainly have. lol

Lily,

You forgot:

Diva of the Dumb Dirt.

There’s been talk circling some of the sites about the abandoned house on Hopesprings Dr.. It just occurred to me to ask all you case wizards: remember the malarky about kc using an air mattress for when Caylee stayed at zanny’s, since we know there was no nanny, wonder if ANY of the others (ricardo,annie,tony) ever saw that mattress in somebody’s apt? The reason I ask is, if she was using the abandoned house as her flop pad that would be a good thing to have. She had to be spending time somewhere besides the car.
Anyone recall if the mattress was ever found at all? ( Could all be just more lies for all we know!)

Hey all…Sorry to anyone who took offense to my title “no life maggot blogger”-
that wasn’t in reference to you all, it was quoted from Cindy Anthony who called
anyone following the case both “no life bloggers” and “maggots.”
Here’s what I found out re: the escort video. Yes it was a fake a friend in Florida
told me that this comes from at the time widespread talk around Orlando that
she had been working for an escort service called Universal Escorts. I also saw
this mentioned in the comments of the video. They work out of Jacksonville
and other places she claimed to have been apparently during those missing blocks
of time. I don’t claim to know the truth. Honestly no one but she herself knows the
truth of what her lifestyle entailed. My other comments were based on my own being
around the music world and having seen so much of how twisted people get on meth.
It was speculation, not a claim of fact, but based on very typical behavior patterns
I’ve observed. No one will ever know but her. My main point was that there’s a
big rubicon an individual has to cross to become a violent sociopath and enjoy
violence and have so much hatred inside. You don’t just one day turn that way,
especially not if you’re only living an easy charmed suburban life. I will continue to
believe that there’s more to this story, other influences besides George + Cindy
that exposed her to that kind of imagery and sadism and cold-blooded attitude.
There’s more to this story somewhere and only she will ever know unless she
spills it in court. Her family is disturbed but they’re not Silence of the Lambs.

It’s been much too quiet in the casa de Anthony’s corner.

I’m beginning to assume Cindy’s working on her own (gotta outdo George) ESSAY:

‘Looks Are Deceiving- Recognizing a Sociopathic Murderess’
Author: CMA Sr. – Enabler Extraordinaire

I think that Cindy uses the word maggot to describe people she doesn’t like because she has not been able to erase the image of maggots in the trunk of the body storage car. I am NOT being cruel or sarcastic here, either. I can’t image that there aren’t times when Cindy closes her eyes to sleep and doesn’t still see them and smell that horrific odor just as though it was yesterday. Someone mentioned the photo of Casey entering the courtroom with clothing that is much too large for her and makes her look pathetic and silly…Cindy allowing her to appear this way without bringing proper, conservative clothing to the jail for Casey to wear during her appearances…well, I see that as a passive aggressive action on Cindy’s part. She says she supports and loves Casey but her actions (or lack of actions) say otherwise…when all is said and done, I think it will always go back to expecting Caylee to return to the house and, instead, being presented with a car trunk in such a condition as it was…and the maggots. Cindy can’t ever forgive “maggot bloggers” because they saw it, too, and will always remember. JMO.

Correction…
“I can’t imagine there ARE times when she DOESN’T still see them.”

Hahahahaha Winterbelle!

» WinterBelle said: { Feb 11, 2010 – 02:02:26 }
It’s been much too quiet in the casa de Anthony’s corner.
I’m beginning to assume Cindy’s working on her own (gotta outdo George) ESSAY:
‘Looks Are Deceiving- Recognizing a Sociopathic Murderess’
Author: CMA Sr. – Enabler Extraordinaire

8) IMO the reason Cindy doesn’t bring JB clothes for KC is because KC would offend the courts with a blackjack costume, her black boots won’t work with the purple dress, the flag definitely would piss the Judge off, the black dress she is sporting with T.L. is inappropriate, and Cindy isn’t sure what KC bought with A.H. money and A.H. might get mad if she see’s KC wearing something she paid for.

Do not stand at my grave and weep,
I am not there… I do not sleep.
I am the thousand winds that blow…
I am the diamond glints on snow…
I am the sunlight on ripened grain…
I am the gentle autumn rain.
When you waken in the morning’s hush,
I am the swift uplifting rush
Of gentle birds in circling flight…
I am the soft star that shines at night.
Do not stand at my grave and cry—
I am not there… I did not die…

I don’t know who wrote this, but gives me such peace when I think of all of the children who have been taken from us.

Willow

Wow. There’s a whole lot of Willows in the recent comments list. So me thinks me shall be done for the day, while asking God’s blessings to soften your paths and to light your ways.

Til the morrow.

I believe the reason Casey is wearing the ill-fitting clothes to court is because that’s the way her defense team wants to portray here. Everyone in the country (world?) has seen her in her short shorts, tight blouses, cropped and tied tee shirts, low-cut dresses, knee-high boots. Now they want everyone to see her as poor little Casey who can’t even dress properly. They think we’ll forget the former Casey.

NOT A CHANCE JOSE and ANDREA!!! We will never forget the real Casey.

Florida’s NINTH JUDICIAL CIRCUIT COURTROOM DECORUM POLICY, Rule 16:

Cell phones and pagers should be turned off or in a vibrate mode. Computers should be used with audio off

http://www.ninthcircuit.org/programs-services/court-resource-center/downloads/courtroom%20decorum%20policy.pdf

Florida State law has no requirement for witness sequestration, so it is up to the particular judge if this procedure shall be followed in a particular case. Generally, the parties may by agreement determine this aspect of trial protocol prior to trial and the judge will abide by the agreement. However, the judge is the final arbiter of witness conduct before, during, and after their sworn testimony. The judge can force compliance through the judicious use of criminal contempt powers.

I lied – Florida HAS a SEQUESTRATION RULE AFTER ALL

section 90.616, Florida Statues,

90.616 Exclusion of witnesses.–

(1) At the request of a party the court shall order, or upon its own motion the court may order, witnesses excluded from a proceeding so that they cannot hear the testimony of other witnesses except as provided in subsection (2).

(2) A witness may not be excluded if the witness is:

(a) A party who is a natural person.

(b) In a civil case, an officer or employee of a party that is not a natural person. The party’s attorney shall designate the officer or employee who shall be the party’s representative.

(c) A person whose presence is shown by the party’s attorney to be essential to the presentation of the party’s cause.

(d) In a criminal case, the victim of the crime, the victim’s next of kin, the parent or guardian of a minor child victim, or a lawful representative of such person, unless, upon motion, the court determines such person’s presence to be prejudicial.

Several days ago, I posted something to the effect of how pathetic Casey looks with her ill fitting clothes (that, if I didn’t know better, I’d think they were Lee’s and Jose’s cast off’s).

It hadn’t occured to me that this is the intention of the defense, to dress Casey in this manner to give her an entire different ‘image’ (would take a miracle). What did occur to me, is the Cindy, in her own mind/way, is getting ‘back’ at Casey by providing this ill fitting clothing (in the assumption that it IS Cindy providing these costumes), as Cindy must read, view the media’s reporting, news articles and videos of Casey’s appearance. Cindy more than anyone, knows what is being said about Casey in EVERY aspect, as she herself stated we, the public ‘picks Casey apart’ (interesting choice of words, since, that is exactly how poor Caylee was found), which leads me to the conclusion that Cindy follows the publics views/opinons/BLOGS – closely.

It would be interesting to know WHO is providing this clothing…it may very well be the defense, as many people have opined.

Hmmm…Interesting…

Somehow, I have visions of Cindy trying on Casey’s clothes at home playing ‘dress up’, looking in the mirror, and saying ‘take that Casey’ (Cindy strikes be as having been in some kind of ‘feminine’ competition with Casey, before, and STILL).

JMO

*****************************************************************

» ChicagoJudy said: { Feb 11, 2010 – 10:02:27 }

I believe the reason Casey is wearing the ill-fitting clothes to court is because that’s the way her defense team wants to portray here. Everyone in the country (world?) has seen her in her short shorts, tight blouses, cropped and tied tee shirts, low-cut dresses, knee-high boots. Now they want everyone to see her as poor little Casey who can’t even dress properly. They think we’ll forget the former Casey.

NOT A CHANCE JOSE and ANDREA!!! We will never forget the real Casey.

Could anyone direct me to the “GA essay”? I have not read it.

Lina Pope:

You can find the essay by ‘googling’ the following:

George Anthony Essay

WinterBelle -

I’m sure in some cases that ruse may work – change her appearance, change the jurors’ perceptions.

Casey’s adult life has been documented on film. The defense must know that photos (good, bad, and ugly) will be in evidence for the jurors and the world to view. Sometimes I have to wonder – the defense or Casey – dumb or dumber ?

I’m not sure if Silver has permanently abandoned the site, or maybe if AZlawyer will show up. I hope either, or any other legal eagle, can respond.

With the state’s motion for In camera, sans defense, meeting with the judge, is it typical for a judge to rule against something like this outright, without knowing the issues of the motion? Or does the judge listen to the information In camera and then decide? Will there be a hearing on it, or will the judge decide without a hearing?

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/os-casey-anthony-motions-20100211,0,3602266.story

..sorry if this is being discussed on another thread..anyone have the actual motion ?

Ellejay,

Hello!!! Two of the Motions:
http://www.docstoc.com/docs/25092325/Motion-for-Leave-to-File-Supplemental-Authority
http://www.docstoc.com/docs/3917337/Casey-Anthony-case-Motion-filed-by-Mark-Nejame-to-strike-for-TES

i understood it to read a new def. motion had been filed today,feb. 11th..

“”In their motion, filed earlier this month…..

Casey Anthony’s defense stated in their objection that prosecutors offered nothing in support of their claim, and “under Florida law a bare assertion is insufficient,” according to the motion, which was made public Thursday.”"

Ellejay,
Sorry, one of the Motions was from last year.
These are the Motions filed recently:
02/09/2010 Motion
for Leave to File Supplemental Authority
02/09/2010 Defense
Objection to State of florida’s Request for an Ex Parte Hearing
02/10/2010 Defense
Objection to State of Florida’s General Discovery Order
02/10/2010 Defense
Objection to State of florida’s General Discovery Order
02/10/2010 Response
to Defendants Motion for Leave to File Supplemental Authority
http://myclerk.myorangeclerk.com/CaseDetail.aspx?CaseID=6236234

Thank you Winterbelle for the link to the GA essay. Watched it and feel very sorry for what George has/will experience. IMO After this trial is over, George should start a new life away from Cindy-she is toxic for him.

Ellejay,

READ: Baez Motion
http://www.wftv.com/pdf/22534584/detail.html

Response To Motion
http://www.wftv.com/pdf/22534497/detail.html

Ouch and ouch. Why does Baez continue to partially and incompetently behave like an attorney? Everytime he files a motion, he appears stupid. I am starting to feel sorry for Casey. I want her to get her due, but her attorney shouldn’t be helping her to the trip to hell.

WSH:

There will be a hearing – in camera.

It will not be open to the public and it will not be open to the defense, but there will be a hearing with a court reporter and a record will be produced verbatim and then that record will be sealed by the court if the court decides to grant the request by the prosecution. All of that will be available to an appeals court should the defense decide to take either a direct appeal later and use that as a reason or an interlocutory appeal now,

*NOT A LEGAL EAGEL, BUT I PLAY ONE ONE TV… NOT! 8)

http://www.wftv.com/pdf/22534561/detail.html

READ: Baez Motion | Response To Motion | Objection
http://www.wftv.com/news/22535671/detail.html

..this motion,the Objection by the defense ,released today.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/os-casey-anthony-motions-20100211,0,3602266.story

…read this in the comments section to this story:

Mr. Nejames is going to MOP THE FLOOR with Baez, and expect a good SMACKDOWN from Judge Strickland. Here’s the very latest from my excellent source in FLA:
1. Dom Casey has indeed turned on the Anthonys because he was facing a heap of trouble himself! He is in protective custody and has begun spilling ALL the beans to SAO. He knew poor Caylee was dead and was told where to find her remains by Cindy (pillowtalk??!). Cindy has been the ringleader for a small band of deluded jerks who are on a campaign to spread reasonable doubt. There is a lot of illegal stuff going on with the ‘Team Caylee/Yuku’ group and they are going down. Cindy and George (who is very P.O.ed at his wife, btw) are desperate to negotiate a plea deal for themselves because there is probable cause for Obstruction of Justice charges!!
2. Dom Casey also knows all about the (ahem) “inappropriate relationship” between Baez and Casey (yuk!) and SURPRISE there is SOMETHING on the jail tapes!!! Baez is going to removed as defense counsel and censured for unethical conduct.
All in all, it’s been a very interesting few days and look for the Baez and Anthony house of cards to come crashing down soon.

Lily_Marie (02/11/2010, 4:31 PM )

» ellejay said: { Feb 11, 2010 – 06:02:12 }

To be fair, it is as of yet, rumor.

» William Hill said: { Feb 11, 2010 – 05:02:08 }

Thanks William

Nickel:

Here is a glimpse of Casey’s daily life:

Casey is housed under the category of Protective Custody Level One in the high-security section of the Female Detention Center in Orange County. Her 12.5′ x 7′ cell http://www.momlogic.com/cdn/images/blueprint_large.php has a floor-to-ceiling clear door made of Lexan, a clear polymer-like glass. She has zero privacy and never comes in contact with the other 652 inmates who also reside in the detention unit. Guards are able to see her every move through this Lexan door.

Most high profile inmates — either by case type or celebrity status — are placed in protective custody for their own safety. Fun facts – past inmates in Casey’s jail have included Backstreet Boys creator and convicted embezzler Lou Pearlman and heartbroken astronaut Lisa Nowak.

Casey’s schedule is strict. She has one hour a day to take a shower, sit in the dayroom and make collect calls from the jail phone. She can access books from a library cart to take back to her cell to read. Jail officers say Casey is ‘an avid reader’. Unfortunately, the exact titles of her library selections, which could include novels and textbooks, are not released to the public. Inmates in her category are not allowed to watch TV or use a computer. Boo hoo!! We know she purchased a small radio with headphones so she can listen to music and talk radio.

She has visitors, almost exclusively from her attorney Jose Baez and other lawyers on his team. Attorneys are allowed to visit anytime — day or night. For one hour a day, Casey is allowed to get exercise outside in the jail yard. No weights or other equipment are provided, but she is allowed to use a basketball or volleyball.

Let’s not forget the delish Orange County jail menus. Casey dines three times a day on 2700 kcal of stick to your ribs fare. An example of a day’s worth of meals:

BREAKFAST

Cornflakes
Cheese
Donut
Enriched bread (2 slices)
Margarine with vitamin A
Sugar packet
Milk with 1% with vitamin A & D

LUNCH

Beef patty and gravy
Sliced potatoes
Northern beans
Enriched bread (2 slices)
Cake
Beverage with vitamin C

DINNER

Chicken patty and gravy
Rice
Green beans
Enriched bread (2 slices)
Cake/Cookie
Beverage with vitamin C

http://www.momlogic.com/cdn/images/menu1_large.php
http://www.momlogic.com/cdn/images/menu2_large.php
http://www.momlogic.com/cdn/images/menu3_large.php

And what does Casey have to look forward to on Death Row?

The Daily Routine of Death Row Inmates
Death Row & Death Watch cells:

A Death Row cell is 6 x 9 x 9.5 feet high. Florida State Prison also has Death Watch cells to incarcerate inmates awaiting execution after the Governor signs a death warrant for them. A Death Watch cell is 12 x 7 x 8.5 feet high. The women on Death Row are housed at Lowell Correctional Institution Annex in Lowell, FL.

Meals: Death Row inmates are served meals three times a day: at 5:00 am, from 10:30 am to 11:00 am and from 4:00 pm to 4:30 pm. Food is prepared by prison staff and transported in insulated carts to the cells. Inmates are allowed plates and spoons to eat their meals. Prior to execution, an inmate may request a last meal. To avoid extravagance, the food to prepare the last meal must cost no more than $40 and must be purchased locally.

Visitors: All inmate visitors must be approved before visitation is allowed.

Showers: The inmates may shower every other day.

Security: Death Row inmates are counted at least once an hour. They are escorted in handcuffs and wear them everywhere except in their cells, the exercise yard and the shower. They are in their cells at all times except for medical reasons, exercise, social or legal visits or media interviews. When a death warrant is signed the inmate is put under Death Watch status and is allowed a legal and social phone call.

Mail, Magazines & Entertainment: Inmates may receive mail every day except holidays and weekends. They may have cigarettes, snacks, radios and 13″ televisions (!!!) in their cells. They do not have cable television or air-conditioning (ha ha – this will be tough to bear in the summertime!) and they are not allowed to be with each other in a common room. They can watch church services on closed circuit television. While on Death Watch, inmates may have radios and televisions positioned outside their cell bars.

Clothing: Death Row inmates can be distinguished from other inmates by their orange t-shirts. Their pants are the same blue colored pants worn by regular inmates.

» ellejay said: { Feb 11, 2010 – 06:02:12 }

Assuming this is all true, the heap of trouble that Cindy is in is called accessory after the fact instead of hindering prosecution.

777.03 Accessory after the fact.–

(1)(a) Any person not standing in the relation of husband or wife, parent or grandparent, child or grandchild, brother or sister, by consanguinity or affinity to the offender, who maintains or assists the principal or accessory before the fact, or gives the offender any other aid, knowing that the offender had committed a felony or been accessory thereto before the fact, with intent that the offender avoids or escapes detection, arrest, trial or punishment, is an accessory after the fact.

(b) Any person, regardless of the relation to the offender, who maintains or assists the principal or accessory before the fact, or gives the offender any other aid, knowing that the offender had committed the offense of child abuse, neglect of a child, aggravated child abuse, aggravated manslaughter of a child under 18 years of age, or murder of a child under 18 years of age, or had been accessory thereto before the fact, with the intent that the offender avoids or escapes detection, arrest, trial, or punishment, is an accessory after the fact unless the court finds that the person is a victim of domestic violence.

(2)(a) If the felony offense committed is a capital felony, the offense of accessory after the fact is a felony of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

(b) If the felony offense committed is a life felony or a felony of the first degree, the offense of accessory after the fact is a felony of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

(c) If the felony offense committed is a felony of the second degree or a felony of the third degree ranked in level 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, or 10 under s. 921.0022 or s. 921.0023, the offense of accessory after the fact is a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

(d) If the felony offense committed is a felony of the third degree ranked in level 1 or level 2 under s. 921.0022 or s. 921.0023, the offense of accessory after the fact is a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

(3) Except as otherwise provided in s. 921.0022, for purposes of sentencing under chapter 921 and determining incentive gain-time eligibility under chapter 944, the offense of accessory after the fact is ranked two levels below the ranking under s. 921.0022 or s. 921.0023 of the felony offense committed.

History.–s. 6, sub-ch. 11, ch. 1637, 1868; RS 2356; GS 3180; RGS 5010; CGL 7112; s. 700, ch. 71-136; s. 65, ch. 74-383; s. 13, ch. 95-184; s. 16, ch. 97-194; s. 15, ch. 99-168.

Note.–Former s. 776.03.

Cindy will be eligible for a 30 year sentence and a fine.

I believe with all my heart there is a dark secret in the Anthony home that Casey has used to her advantage to munipulate her entire family. I don’t even feel the secret was little Caylee…She is holding something that both her parents are aware of and has been allowed to do this for years, like I said even before little Caylee. They know it, she knows it and they are not willing to do the right thing and bring the lies to a closure. Instead they are WILLING to use INNOCENT PEOPLE that were involved with their murdering daughter through finding her little girl or being a friend or boyfriend. I don’t believe these people…Is the murder of your little precious grandaughter worth “saving face”…Unbelieveable. God Bless You Caylee

30 years sounds good to me. If Lee and George where aware of Cindy’s puppet games, would they too be accessories?

thank you william!

..the thought of cindy doing 30 years is worth celebrating!

..it would be absolutely perfect if she and casey (LWOP) were in general poulation together.

It would be tougher to get Lee and George for it, since only Cindy actually sent Dominator out to “discover” the body (assuming that this info is true). If they were there when such direction was given to the Dominator, then yep they are equally guilty of accessory after the fact. If not, then nope.

http://www.wftv.com/pdf/22534561/detail.html

..who writes these motions for the defense ? casey?

..quote….”on feb.8th 2009, the defense and the state attorney assigned…..met and WHERE able to agree………”

ummmmmmmm—jose—–it’s now 2010! and that would be “WERE able to agree”……

I am sad how far lost little Caylee has gotten in this screwed up tragedy. JB motion doesn’t even call for her full name!!!!!! CAYLEE MARIE!!!!!!I won’t add A @ the end of her name because they are not deserving of that honor, ever. I hope Dominic Casey is the new evidence, and I hope all the A’s are crapping on themselves, and I hope they get use to that stench! Poor Caylee, she had no choice in leaving her smell of decomp, but this A holes are going to have their stench intentionally by their actions and madness.

I invite all you dedicated bloggers who want the well deserved JUSTICE for Caylee to place a pink ribbon around your antenna’s in support of this baby. Me and my significant other have. I intend to keep mine on there until she gets the long overdue love, consideration and Justice she truly earned and deserves! Maybe one of you can come up with something larger in representation of this cause and we here in Arizona will follow suit.

Regarding Casey’s Jailhouse Food, Orders, etc.

Whenever I happen to read about Casey’s jailhouse commissary orders, etc…in my mind’s eye, I envision her wearing her headphones, listening to music on her commissary ordered radio, thumbing through whichever book she has checked out from the library, all while munching (crunch, crunch), on the hot peanuts she loves and seems to continuously order…all the while, the case of her murdered daughter continues, while people’s lives have been turned upside down, referring to those that have been looked at and pointed at as SUSPECTS (by the defense team)…

Meanwhile, Casey crunches away…and has the NERVE to even crack a smile in court, let alone LAUGH and exchange pleasantries with her defense team.

Mind boggling.

Maybe the scream team can see this support and wonder how many more states are on Caylee’s side!

ElliJay,

The story says nothing about this ‘comment’ at all. The comment could be complete BS, why believe this as truth or possible truth, because someone on an unmoderated media comment page that is normally ripe with trolls?

I personally don’t believe that this comment writer has any inside information at all, it’s just another troll wanting to see his or her rumours come to life, IMHO.

Think about it. Would Baez even be practicing law right now if there were an inappropriate behaviour documented? Makes no sense– use the common sense test for whatever you read there.

Why would Domininc Casey need protective custody? Makes no sense. Sorry, doens’t pass the ‘hinky test’.

I could be wrong, but we do have to consider sources and we have no idea who this person is, nor does anyone care at Orlando Sentinel.

» Ellejay said: { Feb 11, 2010 – 06:02:12 }
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/os-casey-anthony-motions-20100211,0,3602266.story
…read this in the comments section to this story:

kleat:

..you’re absolutely right—-i was thinking about it after ( posted 1st–thought 2nd.)!

..( although i wasn’t aware of orlando sentinel posters…aka trolls.( i have been reading about “yuku” ..thanks for the heads up there..)!

Ellejay, Kleat: Lily has been posting at the Sentinel for quite awhile. Her postings do seem to turn out credible everytime. Lily & Blink seem to be on the same page, so to speak. We will just have to see what happens, though.

The posts re: Casey’s jail conditions reminded me of a story I saw last summer
on one of the FLA news sites saying that Casey had filed a request with the jail
for a custom GAP stone-washed denim uniform and was of course refused.
Also that she had to be treated for skin irritations caused by attempting to give
herself a “Brazilian bikini wax” with a roll of scotch tape. She hadn’t quite gotten
the hang of jail at that time.
Also…did you know that the girl everyone loves to hate, KristyClarify has been
jailed? Apparently cops came to her place with a warrant, I assume for her videos
of harassing and filming govt. employees, and she resisted arrest, pepper sprayed
the cop, attempted some assault and jumped a fence. So assault and battery and
resisting charges were added.

L.Smith.

..thanks, whatever comes of this, it’s going to be interesting that’s for sure.

Just to be clear – Lily Marie and me (just Lily) are not the same commenter. But her nic hits real close to home for me as a nic I’ve used in very distant past. That’s why it caught my eye. I’ve posted at Blink and here (and a couple of other Caylee places but not for a while) but that’s it.

Don’t want any confusion! Her comment was very interesting to me tho!

Regarding Lily Marie — her latest post, in my opinion, was so absolutely ludicrous that it didn’t deserve comment. I figured she was just a new poster hoping to gain some notoriety, on the Hinky, and not for one moment would have or could have been mistaken for Lily.

Regarding Dominic Casey and his “move”? Who the heck knows. Perhaps he so well plans to publish a book of his own, when this is all over, that will net him millions, as one Marsha Clark and so many others did after O’Jay, and doesn’t want to face the public scorn that may come his way when he proves himself to be yet another bloodsucker to profit off of Caylee’s death, or perhaps this whole matter has become too embarassing for him to remain in the spotlight, and he so wishes to put as much distance between himself and the Anthonys as is possible.

Also, I can well imagine that his office has been inundated with well and not so well intentioned folk bombarding him with questions or hurling accusations, and that could not ever be good for business or his professional reputation, which has long since been brought into question, however justifiably so, as in the matter of his having traipsed through the wooded area with his proverbial poker. He’s bumbling and bumbled enough, all his own, and needs no help from one such as Lily Marie and her most wild imaginings.

Until such time as he and Cindy ride off on a white horse into the sunset, the proven facts and evidences at hand are enough to be dealt with and speculated over.

Just my opinion.
Willow

Lily,

Interesting, to say the very least!

Here’s the new motion: http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/Stories/Local/State%27s%20Motion%20for%20Incamera%20Ex%20Parte%20Hearing.pdf

What could this be about?

Well, it’s apparently new evidence that the state feels they need adequate time to investigate and they fear having to release the information they have recently obtained will jeopardize their investigation.

That’s the way I’m processing it.

» lily said: { Feb 11, 2010 – 11:02:06 }

I didn’t think that it was you Lily.

Thank you, Valhall… I’m just curious as to what the new evidence actually is.

Ex-wife of meter reader who found Caylee Anthony’s remains to be questioned under oath
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/os-casey-anthony-jill-kerley-kronk-20100212,0,4766696.story
The ex-wife of the Orange County meter reader who found Caylee Marie Anthony’s remains will be questioned under oath later this month, according to a notice filed in court Friday.

Prosecutors handling the first-degree murder case against Caylee’s mother, Casey Anthony, will question Jill Kerley, who lives in Tennessee, on Feb. 25. Kerley was married to now former meter reader Roy Kronk for about four months……

very interesting Newsweek article about family annihilators

http://www.newsweek.com/ID/233492

The whole Dominic Casey thing knowing to search the woods boggles my mind. I strongly feel that Casey has never admitted to anyone that she killed Caylee and dumped her body in the woods. I don’t buy the psychic either. I do believe that the family suspected she was in those woods somehow, Cindy contacted the psychic, psychic then after working with Cindy talked to Dominic, etc….
But the question that sticks out to me is….how did they know? Did they know 100% or did they suspect she might be there?
Cindy admitted to LE that she had someone check out those woods.
Did Casey somehow slip up when talking to attorney? Did they find some type of diary where she wrote down that she placed her in those woods? Or did Casey fess up to someone?

Jo –

In my wild imagination, I think that Lee came upon Caylee’s remains first. Lee was in overtime detective mode at the time. Either Casey gave him some inference via letter from jail or Lee was able to figure it out on his own. He grew up alongside Casey in that house and in that neighorhood. Of anyone in the family he was probably most in tune with Casey’s habits and had a better idea of where to look. I think he then told Cindy who had DC go out there to prod around. Before Cindy contacted DC, Cindy responded to a psychic that had offered to help by sending her one of Caylee’s teddy bears. Then she had DC ‘call the psychic on the phone while searching’ so the cover would be set. DC would come upon the remains that the psychic led them to.

Neat and easy? Not. DC bumbled the search by A – not finding the remains and B – having his buddy Hoover videotape the search and C – contacting Leonard Padilla to get an idea of which media would be interested in buying the tape.
Psychic
^
I think it was Lee -> Cindy |- > Dominic Casey

http://www.aolnews.com/crime/article/jarred-mitchell-harrell-named-person-of-interest-in-somer-thompsons-death/19355791

Simply.

There are quite of bit of ‘documents’ I have missed over time, however, a few days ago, in reading a comment (on another forum), I clicked on a link, that directed me to ‘emails’ that were forwarded to SAO/LE, etc. (via subpoena?)… Either way, these emails include correspondence between Lee, Cindy Anthony and Dominic Casey (and a host of other characters emailing Cindy and Dominic in an effort to ‘help’.

I realize that I am behind, so to speak, therefore, many of you might be familiar with these emails, therefore, I apologize for the redundancy. On the other hand, there are probably many who (like myself), know/knew nothing of these emails…thus, I am providing a link to where these emails can be accessed.

http://www.wftv.com/pdf/21148535/detail.html

For anyone accessing these emails, I suggest you look at the ‘date’ the respective emails were sent- this will give you an idea at what ‘date’ these people (Cindy & Dominic) were still in their quest of super sleuthing.

I would like to add, that regarding the TIMER 55 password -starting on page 75, Dominic emails Cindy his big find regarding some java script info, that sheds light on Timer 55 (and it’s MEANING, as it pertains to JAVA SCRIPT)…which I’m not at all familiar with, I might add.
Personally: I’m inclined to think that Casey pulled the Timer 55 password from the \ a java script description explained in Dominic’s emails)…

When reading through the entire succession of emails, I was shaking my head in disbelief at how Cindy has been insistent on trying to place ‘clues’ on all kinds of scenarios/people.
(On page 80, there is a photo of a ‘possible ZG’…These people are incredible! I hope the individuals, who’s photos are included in these emails as being a ‘possible Zenaida’ sue the hell outta Cindy.

LAST, but not least, something that gave me a hearty LAUGH OUT LOUD, is found starting on page 113 – Titled ‘Characters of Interest’ (in regards to those that won’t be ‘allowed’ to attend Caylee’s memorial. As you can imagine, Leonard Padilla is FIRST on the list (if I recall correctly)…as I read through the ‘characters of interest’ and their ‘description’, I could almost hear the tune of ‘The GOOD, THE BAD and THE UGLY’ playing in the background. It’s so freaking crazy!

Again, my apology to anyone that is way past these emails…

http://download.gannett.edgesuite.net/wtlv/docs/021110_harrell_warrant.pdf

WinterBelle – I find these amusing whether reading for the first time or the tenth anyway! Thanks for providing the link again!

Lily,

U R most welcome…
On a separate note: Thank you (as well), for providing the below link/accompanying article…Very interesting, to say the least…ditto for the ‘comments’ accompanying the article.

*****************************************************************************

» lily said: { Feb 12, 2010 – 10:02:30 }

very interesting Newsweek article about family annihilators

http://www.newsweek.com/ID/233492

I just had to add something to my previous posting from earlier (below)…
Regarding those that won’t be allowed into Caylee’s Memorial, there is a list of names (with a description attached)…
Check out the ‘description’ next to John Morgan’s name: It’s listed as “Exhibitionist”

****************************************************************

» WinterBelle said: { Feb 12, 2010 – 05:02:02 }

There are quite of bit of ‘documents’ I have missed over time, however, a few days ago, in reading a comment (on another forum), I clicked on a link, that directed me to ‘emails’ that were forwarded to SAO/LE, etc. (via subpoena?)… Either way, these emails include correspondence between Lee, Cindy Anthony and Dominic Casey (and a host of other characters emailing Cindy and Dominic in an effort to ‘help’).

I realize that I am behind, so to speak, therefore, many of you might be familiar with these emails, therefore, I apologize for the redundancy. On the other hand, there are probably many who (like myself), know/knew nothing of these emails…thus, I am providing a link to where these emails can be accessed.

http://www.wftv.com/pdf/21148535/detail.html

For anyone accessing these emails, I suggest you look at the ‘date’ the respective emails were sent- this will give you an idea at what ‘date’ these people (Cindy & Dominic) were still in their quest of super sleuthing.

I would like to add, that regarding the TIMER 55 password -starting on page 75, Dominic emails Cindy his big find regarding some java script info, that sheds light on Timer 55 (and it’s MEANING, as it pertains to JAVA SCRIPT)…which I’m not at all familiar with, I might add.
Personally: I’m inclined to think that Casey pulled the Timer 55 password from the \ a java script description explained in Dominic’s emails)…

When reading through the entire succession of emails, I was shaking my head in disbelief at how Cindy has been insistent on trying to place ‘clues’ on all kinds of scenarios/people.
(On page 80, there is a photo of a ‘possible ZG’)…These people are incredible! I hope the individuals, who’s photos are included in these emails as being a ‘possible Zenaida’ sue the hell outta Cindy.

LAST, but not least, something that gave me a hearty LAUGH OUT LOUD, is found starting on page 113 – Titled ‘Characters of Interest’ (in regards to those that won’t be ‘allowed’ to attend Caylee’s memorial. As you can imagine, Leonard Padilla is FIRST on the list (if I recall correctly)…as I read through the ‘characters of interest’ and their ‘description’, I could almost hear the tune of ‘The GOOD, THE BAD and THE UGLY’ playing in the background. It’s so freaking crazy!

Again, my apology to anyone that is way past these emails…

i posted this youtube today ( on the wrong thread ).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FpteGu0PL0&feature=PlayList&p=621F571AE3BED81C&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=51

..does anyone else think it’s insane that GEORGE does all of the talking, while cindy just sits there ?

..cindy——–not blabbing for over 6 minutes in a row ??

..is she drugged ?

Ellejay – I, too, wondered about Cindy in that video. This is the way she should have been acting from the beginning – distraught, exhausted, sedated, suicidal. Is this her attempt to soften her crass image? It is almost laughable. Oh hell, it is laughable.

She needs a better acting coach.

You can feel the pain of the reporters in some of these interviews. It’s like “What do I ask this clown next?”

Nauseated,

I disagree. I don’t think Cindy was acting. That was Cindy at rock bottom. And it’s interesting to me that Cindy reaching a devastated state occur within 5 days of slick-dick Dom Casey poking and gouging around within 60 feet of Caylee’s remains.

Valhall

I believe that the loss and distress were genuine in that video, as well. Very telling. And Nejame quit around this time, and the flurry of sightings, etc.

Why do you think she did the interview in that condition? She has always put her best bold and brazen face forward. Was it for the money?

I still say – if all was on the up and up – a loving grandmother would have been devastated since day one (or day thirty-one).

Valhall and William Hill,

Good morning!!! Have you read this article, if you did I apologize:

http://billsheaffer.wordpress.com/2009/11/20/why-is-the-state-attorneys-office-not-charging-the-anthonys-with-perjury/

Sigh. Somewhere it all went haywire. When do you suppose that was, Val?

I mean, in the very beginning of all of this Cindy was so desperate to find Caylee that she drove Casey to a police substation and then home, and in spite of Lee’s efforts to keep her (Cindy) from calling LE, and if you look at his testimony some 45 minutes passed through which he discouraged her, as he spoke to Casey, Cindy’s prime concerns were for Caylee. What went wrong? When? Could it be that she didn’t become quite so defiant until after Padilla bonded Casey out the first time?

Even during that very first call that Casey made home from the jail, Cindy is placatingly desperate, “Well who’s fault is that” “You lied”, nevermind the Sweeties and the Honey’s, Cindy was still to the point. What happened to that Cindy?

What happened in the bathroom after Casey’s return home? Far more than coming up with the JBP scenario? Perhaps Casey laid one huge guilt trip on her mother, “If you don’t believe your own daughter, ME, then who the hell will, Mother!”

Could it have been so? Could Casey have had so much control? Why was Cindy so weak so as to crumble and thereafter stiffen her spine, put on the ugly face, pull herself up by her brastraps and scream, “My daughter’s a good mother! Mother of the year! She did not kill Caylee!” especially when it’s so obviously clear that from the very beginning of all of this everything Cindy said and did pointed to the very real possibility that Casey killed Caylee, and for which Casey poured the guilt on thick.Is that what it is? Is that what happened? Cindy gave in to Casey and thereafter abandoned Caylee?

Willow…

» Nauseated said: { Feb 13, 2010 – 08:02:27 }

They were trying to keep up the show, I would suppose. She told everyone that she wasn’t sleeping, so maybe she thought that her appearance would pass as fatigue or exhaustion?

» Willow said: { Feb 13, 2010 – 09:02:50 }

I would imagine guilt played a part. Feeling partially responsible for what happened to Caylee by not interceding, and feeling responsible for raising Casey to be be what she became. I’m not getting into the nature vs nurture thing here, whether they were responsible or not, what I am referring to is how they probably felt about the circumstances. Add to that a history of presenting a ‘perfect family’ to outsiders,keeping up appearances, some kind of pathological codependence; and there is your recipe ( for disastrous behavior).

Thanks FRG

Our own Silver said similar things, probably more articulately than Sheaffer. No disrespect to Mr Sheaffer.

Yes, I had previously read Mr. Sheaffer’s article. I always read his articles.

I do not believe for a moment that ANY charges would be brought against any of the Anthonys prior to the completion of Casey’s trial. But my questions are toward afterward.

Valhall,

So, do you believe that they will be charged after the trial? In my layperson opinion it would be a disrespect to LE if the Anthony’s are NOT to be CHARGED. Can you imagine Val if we had done half of what they have done? We would be sitting in jail for a long time. The Anthony’s believe they are above the law, they are sick people. IMO

WSH,

Yes, Silver is great, Maura is great, and so it Val!!!! Val’s blog has taught me a lot of things and I am so grateful for that.

» Valhall said: { Feb 13, 2010 – 09:02:04 }

Yep. And that will be in part, I’m sure, determined by how much the Anthonys cooperate or testify honestly in court.

First things first, as they say.

I just can’t take it.

http://www.wesh.com/news/19636880/detail.html

Video.

Can someone clear this up for me? Was it determined that the tape on the gas can was the same as the tape found on the skull? I’m hearing two different things. TIA.

» ellejay said: { Feb 13, 2010 – 02:02:15 }

i posted this youtube today ( on the wrong thread ).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FpteGu0PL0&feature=PlayList&p=621F571AE3BED81C&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=51

..does anyone else think it’s insane that GEORGE does all of the talking, while cindy just sits there ?

..cindy——–not blabbing for over 6 minutes in a row ??

..is she drugged ?

She does appear to me to be on some sort of anti-anxiety medication. Head down, slow body movements and blinking of eyes very slow. But, one thing…Cindy does speak…she pipes up just in time to disagree with George as he instructs people who to call with tips. (Begin watching at minute 5:11.) George says people can call the authorities if they have confidence in them and Cindy shakes her head no and mumbles a disagreement. At this point she has been instructing people to call THEM. She’s not asleep on the job after all.
My opinion is that this is the week Cindy found out for certain that Caylee was dead. She “knew” before but now she really knows. This is also the time period that Michelle Bart cried and said something about it’s being a terrible week.
If this week could be sorted out, so many questions could be answered.

as Valhall pointed out too:

..this interview was done within 4 or 5 days of dominic casey poking around in the woods.

..also, MNJ resigned as george and cindy’s lawyer around this same time.

crucibelle said: { Feb 13, 2010 – 02:02:24 }
Can someone clear this up for me? Was it determined that the tape on the gas can was the same as the tape found on the skull? I’m hearing two different things. TIA.

…it’s been documented that the same type of duct tape,complete with the henkel oval logo and desription—–were on the remains, the gas can, and on at least one of the posters taped up at the command centre–where george, cindy etc handed out info, t-shirts etc.

8) Was listening to the jail visit again….I know I need to get a life, but…George tells KC know you can trust me….You can tell me anything….Had she told him everything would he have told LE???? Because whenever I tell someone close to me “know you can trust me” your secret is safe with me…I genuinely mean it and I know none of my close one’s would whisper in my ear they killed their 2 year old baby, and please keep it to yourself.

So I have changed my mind again GA is as coniving as Master Ring Leader Cindy, and Assistant KC. KC said they need the media’s help but they need to help them too, it goes both ways..NOT.. she never assisted them. I also wonder most days who she would have corresponded with via the Internet and phone had she be bonded out? Especially since no one on this planet would befreind her today? She selfishly took Caylee’s life away from her, and she has the sick mentality to state her life has been taken away from, rather than say Caylee being supposedly taken away from her so her life is worthless. Hurry up and get this psycho off this planet.

JUSTICE FOR CAYLEE MARIE WORLD ET AL. To say she is an A#@$%^& is to be like them and disgrace her.

Thank you, Ellejay.

I listened to Cindy’s first 911 call, and following is what I heard Cindy and Casey saying while the call was being transferred to the Sheriff’s Communication Section:

2:13/2:35 Cindy: Cuz my next thing will be down to child thing, and we’ll have a court order to get her. So if that’s the way you want to play, we’ll do it, and you’ll never (interrupted by Casey 2:21/2:35)

2:21/2:35 Casey: I’m cooperating.

2:23/2:35 Cindy: Well then you have (what followed “have” is inaudible to me)

2:24/2:35 Casey: One more day.

2:25/2:35 Cindy: No. I’m not giving you another day. I’ve given you a month.

2:28/2:35 Casey: It sounded to me like she said, “I’m confessing.” It is barely audible to me, so I thought it was possible that she said, “I’m contesting.” I listened over and over again with my ear next to the speaker, and it didn’t sound like there were any t’s in the word. Each time I listened, it sounded to me like she said, “I’m confessing.”

Please listen to the recording and let me know what you heard. Thanks in advance.

Following is the link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxXKC2GjZ4Q

I found an audio excerpt of the 911 call, and I can hear what Cindy and Casey are saying more clearly, probably because the volume is louder in the audio.

Following is the link:

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/orange/orl-caylee-anthony-orlando-911-mp3,0,3722061.mp3file

I hope I heard it right this time:

Cindy: Cuz my next thing is down to child thing, and we’ll have a court order to get her. If that’s the way you want to play, we’ll do it, and you’ll never (interrupted by Casey)

Casey: That’s not the way I want (what follows is barely audible to me) — It sounded like she may have said, “That’s not the way I want it to play”, but I don’t trust my hearing any more. What I now hear in the audio as “that’s not the way” being said very fast sounded like “I’m cooperating” when I listened to the recording on the video.

Cindy: Well then you have (interrupted by Casey)

Casey: One more day.

Cindy: No. I’m not giving you another day. I’ve given you a month.

Casey: I’m contesting (?)

Hummm, chili cook off, huh? KOA, huh? Where would be the middle point, exactly?
I’m bringing the cast iron skillets for cornbread! And if need be, a 12 man tent, that’s been deamed the Taj Mahal of tents. If I make my father’s infamous chili, it’s gonna take two full days. And only the bravest of all hearts and stomachs will be able to eat it. Brings tears to your eyes while it’s cooking for Pete’s sake!

Lorna…..and let us not forget Cindy proclaiming that Casey is just as much a victim as Caylee is Makes you want to slap all of them!

Just wanted to share a little nerd love with all my science geek, blogging friends….

http://www.physorg.com/news185308707.html

Not nearly as awesome as a Carl Sagan video, but I think it would make him smile too!

Happy “Val”entine’s Day!

Todd Macaluso has resigned from the Casey Anthony defense team as he is dealing with his own issues with the California Bar Association. According to Wesh he loses his license on April 26, 2010. Hmmmmm. Interesting.

http://www.wftv.com/news/22564905/detail.html

“Casey’s lead attorney, Jose Baez told Eyewitness News on Sunday night that Macaluso has entered the alternative disciplinary program with the California Bar, and wouldn’t be able to practice law at this time.

WFTV Legal Analyst Bill Sheaffer says Macaluso has spent most of the past year, dealing with his problems in California. “He does not appear to have played such an integral part in the defense up the this point, that it should rise to the point of a devastating loss to the defense,” said Sheaffer.

Macaluso sent out a statement on Sunday night, saying “I, like Casey, know how difficult it is to lose a family member. While I regret not being able to proceed in her case as her attorney, I know she is in good hands with her current defense team.”

Jose Baez released this statement: “The entire defense team is grateful for his hard work on this case and wishes him well in all of his future endeavors.” Baez told Eyewitness News he will be looking for another attorney to take over Macaluso’s duties.”

a). i believe him when he says h” regrets not being able to proceed in the case” ( aka —won’t be the recipient of future book deal $$$$$’s.)

b). jose is “looking for a lawyer to take over..” someone “jury-friendly” i would think, a LDB look alike…..

c). they can “look-alike”——but they sure won’t sound alike.

..if there is ANYONE that i feel very badly for in this ( besides , obviously, caylee) it’s her great-grandparents.

..i see that the state has mrs. plesea down on their witness list.

..we can only begin to imagine what this has done to her , and her husband, since july 2008.
..these are sweet, honest, down to earth people, in their 80’s! i wish the state would reconsider , she must be extremely stressed over what is going on now——–and even more so, looking to be called as a witness in 2011.

..surely, with all that they have——they do not need great grandma , to testify that kc’s a thief.etc…..stress could very easily do them both in.
..i hope and pray that the SA will let her know that she will not be called.

..does kc have ANY idea of the number of lives she has ruined ?

Good morning Val!!!!
Good morning everybody!!!!

Wow, so where is the proof TM stated that somebody else other than KC placed Caylee’s body where she was ultimately found??? Hmmmmm.

” Baez told Eyewitness News he will be looking for another attorney to take over Macaluso’s duties”.

Isn’t that funny how MONEY is not an issue for JB???? I wonder where is all the $$$$$ coming from??? Despicable JB!!!!

Ellejay –

Great Grandmother Plesea has insight to the family dynamics like no one else. I think her testimony is important. She distrusted Casey long before June 2008. Cindy knew this yet still handled Casey with kid gloves – not wanting to ’set her off’ with a confrontation.

When your own grandmother can’t stand the sight of you – something is VERY wrong.

Cindy can put a stop to this charade if she doesn’t want her mother called as a witness.
She merely has to start telling the truth – the whole truth – not ‘Anthony truth’.

Nauseated, I wholeheartedly agree and thank you for expressing it so well. If Mrs. Pleasea has to take the stand then so be it. Something she can do for her great-grandbaby and it might just make her proud.

Good Morning, All! Seems quiet here, so I was wondering what all of you thought of the Son of Sam Law. I was wondering if it now can be brought against Casey, if the prosecuters wished, since she’s now a convicted felon, or only after she’s convicted on the murder trial. Wikipedia says it can also be brought against family, friends, etc.

Silver,

Hello!! So now what is going to happen with the statements made by Todd Macaluso:

That’s the snip:
http://sprocket-trials.blogspot.com/search/label/Casey%20Anthony?updated-max=2009-09-20T13%3A51%3A00-07%3A00&max-results=20

At the beginning of the August 21 hearing before Judge Stan Strickland, Todd Macaluso, a member of the defense team began his request for TES documents by stating:

“As Your Honor knows, the body of Caylee Marie Anthony was found very close to the Anthony home, and the body was found in a wooded area that if one were to search for a missing child, this is the first place you would go search. There is substantial evidence that we’ve discovered, and that’s been set forth in our brief, Your Honor, that the body or the remains of Caylee Anthony were placed there after Casey Anthony was locked up in the Orange County Correctional Facility. There is substantial evidence, and that proves, Your Honor, her innocence. That’s exculpatory evidence, it proves that somebody else placed the remains in the area where it was ultimately found.”

Silver, I am curious to know about it. I am scratching my head. Thank you!!!

The only thing that would prove is that Casey had an accomplice after she murdered her little baby girl. It certainly does not prove she is innocent.

I have to wonder about casey being willing to sit in her little cell , when her lawyers keep saying there is proof she is innocent , that there are compelling reasons for why she didn,t report Caylee missing ! Is she really being told the true facts of her case ? Any normal person that thought they had half a chance of convincing a judge/ jury with that proof would be screaming to be heard today , there would be no waiting . Have her parents really been sat down and given the straight truth ? Why are they not demanding that beaz take what he knows ( if he knows) to the judge ? It looks to me that casey’s only chance to get out of the DP is – reasonable doubt of intent to kill Caylee and will get LWOP . beaz is keeping her so isolated from everyone – why ? If I was her lawyer I would want the family waiting at the jail first in line, to see my client every chance they had rather than let the world think the family couldn,t face her or that casey was refusing to see them, even if its small talk about the weather . I just have alot of questions about the way beaz is going about this case !

I have a feeling that they will change course mid stream and say that it was an accident. If she did that and pled guilty to that what are the minimum sentencing guidelines?

There is no way no how that any lawyer with even a monicum of sense would not try to drum the severity of what KC is facing into her head. Oops, sorry, forgot we are talking about Jose here.

Buttercup, IMO, I think Casey is kept in the dark about alot of things. She really doesn’t have any way of hearing what is being said in the media except from what she might hear on her little radio that she is allowed to have in her cell. I think that Baez may be making all kinds of promises to her. Just to have her plea guilty in the fraud case was quite amazing to me because she is a sociopath. I believe that Baez is keeping her away from Cindy & George because we all know how those previous jail visits turned out. Geeze, Casey nearly had a fit just because she missed the chili dinner! Can you imagine how Casey would react to her parents’ visit now, after they’ve not gotten her released & if she just happened to have found out that they are living the ‘good life’ with cruises & bling? LOL Wouldn’t you just love to see a jail house visit now?

I think upthread on this topic there was speculation on how D. Casey came about his “tip” to search the area where Caylee was eventually found. While reading the timeline of events on this website I have found the following:

9 – TMi reveals that Hoover provided a tip to searcher Bill Todd on November 8th. While the exact content of the tip has not been revealed, Bill Todd’s wife states that Hoover said “someone saw Casey’s car parked near that patch of woods in June.” When Hoover gave Todd the tip he told him no one could know he was out there. He said it had to be kept a secret because he was working for the Anthonys and if they found out his job would be in danger.

~~~~~~~~~~

So this is where the tip came from. Not Casey, not Lee (unless he was the person who saw her vehicle there in June). I did not know about this before; I recall the two sightings (near the airport and another near railroad tracks) that were later dismissed. Very interesting, to say the least!

By the way, I tend to lurk here more than anything and I love reading everyone’s posts. It’s nice to see sensible posts and insightful discussions. Many thanks to Val for all she does, as well as Maura, Silvrspnr, WH, FRG and everyone else I haven’t mentioned.

Valleygirl, who is Tmi and what is the link for this? Thanks!

L. Smith~

TMi would be Tim Miller. Here is the link to the Timeline and Discovery : http://www.thehinkymeter.com/?page_id=1024

You are a jewel, Valley Girl! Thank you.

To help you out even more that clip is from page 91 (Timeline for January 6-January 20, 2008)….and thank you!

..for those who haven’t seen the HILARIOUS video recapping cindy’s FBI interview, it’s a MUST watch…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzYtMTDqZQ4

I was reading the emails between Shirley Pleasea and I believe her sister Loubea on http://www.acandyrose.com. They have some very interesting excerpts of info regarding cindy being very concerned about where Casey was with Caylee. Cindy confessed to her mother that she did not believe Casey’s stories about where she was in the beginning of June. Cindy is alot of things, but what she is not, is stupid concerning her daughters lying, stealing and fabricated stories. It’s a shame she did not act on instincts sooner and perhaps saved baby Caylee

At that point in time I really think Cindy was trying to avoid Casey’s derision so she fundamentally abandoned the needs of the baby. Truly pathetic.

http://www.wftv.com/caseyanthonyblog/index.html

More evidence in the murder case against Casey Anthony will be made public on Tuesday morning.

The State Attorney’s Office put media outlets on alert today that it will make available three CDs or DVDs of evidence in the case.

It is not clear what information will be on the digitized files.

FRG said
“Isn’t that funny how MONEY is not an issue for JB???? I wonder where is all the $$$$$ coming from??? Despicable JB!!!!”
I felt the need to punish myself by rereading the state depo of Cindy and was once again blown away by Baez telling Cidy to zip it. It is so obvious and so disgusting that Casey took multiple video’s and photo’s to Baez’s office and they have been selling them to fund the defense. Jose and Andrea were both freaking out, if Cindy aswered the question the public would learn information that was “sealed by court order”. They even admitted that it was information the SAO had but did not want it to be public knowledge. This could only refer to the hearing about defense fuding and the source(s) were indeed sealed by court order. Linda Dranne Burdick did a great job IMO of exposing the truth thru her questioning and the defense tipped their cards. The defense doth protest too much, methinks…

http://www.wftv.com/news/22572009/detail.html

Man Found Guilty In Toddler Death Trial

….”A jury found a Seminole County guilty Monday night of killing his girlfriend’s toddler. Prosecutors say Jason Lenz killed 2-year-old A.J. Cabral by slamming his head against a bedroom wall.

Lenz was found guilty of first degree murder in Cabral’s death. Afterwards, a judge immediately sentenced him to life in prison without parole.

This was Lenz’s second trial. His first trial ended in a hung jury.

The man who first promised police nothing unusual happened on January 2009, the night that Cabral died, looked pained during closing arguments in the felony murder case against him on Monday. He even cried in court.”

* Ditto *

When I first heard Cindy and George actively covering for Casey, the first thought that came to mind is they are covering for her, as she must be covering something for THEM (either individually, or collectively).
Time will tell…

JMO

**********************************************************

» Carla said: { Feb 11, 2010 – 07:02:03 }

I believe with all my heart there is a dark secret in the Anthony home that Casey has used to her advantage to munipulate her entire family. I don’t even feel the secret was little Caylee…She is holding something that both her parents are aware of and has been allowed to do this for years, like I said even before little Caylee. They know it, she knows it and they are not willing to do the right thing and bring the lies to a closure. Instead they are WILLING to use INNOCENT PEOPLE that were involved with their murdering daughter through finding her little girl or being a friend or boyfriend. I don’t believe these people…Is the murder of your little precious grandaughter worth “saving face”…Unbelieveable. God Bless You Caylee

..the anthony’s sure have keeping a low profile lately.

..i wonder if it has anything to do with the new evidence coming out tomorrow ? ( surely jose gives them a heads up ?)
———————————————————–

More evidence in the murder case against Casey Anthony will be made public on Tuesday morning.

The State Attorney’s Office put media outlets on alert today that it will make available three CDs or DVDs of evidence in the case.
————————————————————

..you can fit a LOT on 3 Cd’s or DVD’s…….should be interesting!

Ellejay,

I believe the Anthony’s recent low profile is a manifestation of their finally realizing that a simple “No comment” is and would have been the better approach for them since the early days as the reality of what happened came about. They added to their own misery with their hostile, loud, antagonistic response to everyone……from Tim Miller to Leonard Padilla to John Morgan (to accusing many of Casey’s friends) to countless others. Even at their own home, as terribly difficult as it would have been, ignoring the protestors, being above the protestors, keeping a low profile would have better behavior. But it took them two years to arrive at this level of low profile. To say the least, they are not quick studies.

The FACT that Casey is now a CONVICTED FELON – and televised to AMERICA LIVE as she was convicted, is probably a contributing factor in SPINDY and George keeping a low profile. Kinda ‘challenging’ to go out and spew ‘Casey was a good mother’, ‘Casey may have told some mistruths’, blah, blah, blah, when the NATION witnessed her getting convicted for GRAND THEFT.
JMO

On a separate note: Earlier, I watched for the first time, the (youtube), videos of Cindy as she sits with the FBI (on 7/31/08 < if I'm not mistaken).

OH-MY-GOSH! Her 'Zanny could be Amy' 'Ricardo could be Jeff' 'Zanny's car wreck could be Amy's car wreck' 'Caylee could keep a beat on the drums' (after discussing the 'drum set' at Zanny's), ' Casey's leaving clues', blah, blah, blah..

My gosh, I've heard of denial, but Cindy Anthony has been off her rocker from day one!

Not sure which part of the interview (there are 11 parts to the videos I viewed), she actually says "even after Casey graduated from high school" (WTH?!!!!!)
The real clincher is when she (Cindy) is describing Casey's car and the 'good' condition it's in (tires, etc.), she ACTUALLY says "That car's got a lotta life in it".
Someone needs to CERTIFY this woman – STAT!

*(h%$f)@*^^%$<l#(&^!!!!!!!!

Omygosh…(shaking head, about to walk to the kitchen for another Maxalt)!

winterbelle:

..after you suffered through cindy’s FBI interview——-cindy blabbing non stop for EVER!

..treat yourself to a couple of minutes of someone ‘re-capping’ that FBI interview.
..( a little humour relief.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzYtMTDqZQ4

» Orlandoan said: { Feb 16, 2010 – 04:02:11 }
Ellejay,

“I believe the Anthony’s recent low profile is a manifestation of their finally realizing that a simple “No comment” is and would have been the better approach for them since the early days as the reality of what happened came about. ”

..exactly—–the “no comment” “lay low” —–in the very BEGINNING, would have resulted in no protesters at the home at all.

..however, they’ve “made this bed—–now they will have to lie in it”.

..( i still think the new evidence coming out may have something to do with them–or something they don’t want “out there”—thus the hiding their heads——after all cindy has never had a problem speaking out—–if it means a few more grand$$$$’s for her.)

Morning everybody!!!
As far as DC had spilt the beans to the Prosecution, I would like to believe that but I was just today looking at DC’s website and here is what it says when you click on the link to Caylee Marie Anthony icon:
http://dgator.com/cayleemarie.aspx

□ We do not promote agenda-setting theories. We seek the truth & let the evidence speak □
Caylee Marie Anthony disappeared sometime after June 16, 2008. D&A have been Investigating the circumstances surrounding Caylee Marie’s disappearance since July of 2008 at the request of the Family. If you have any information about Caylee Marie’s disappearance or death . . .

Please contact your local Law Enforcement or:
D&A Investigations, Inc. at: info@dgator.com
DC also keeps a link to the CMA Document Library, how weird can it be?
I don’t know but I don’t believe DC is helping Prosecution UNLESS either they (Prosecution) has something on him or DC is mad he was not paid for his services, I have no idea (I mean we all know they have made deals) how the Anthony’s have enough money to pay for their lawyer and the PI, also the A’s don’t have a REAL job… I guess we will have to wait until the trial starts.
That’s just disgusting to think that Caylee’s own grandparents are profiting off of her. Sad sad sad!!!!

Valhall,
Did you see this article? I guess that Lyon is taking over KC’s case and the next on the list to resign will be JB… just kidding!!! I wish right!!!
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/os-casey-anthony-jose-baez-spokeswoman-20100216,0,967834.story

Obviously Andrea Lyon has taken over the handling of this case. She wants to control what is being said and by whom. Should have done that a long time ago IMHO.

The media liasson has quit too. I am sure more support staff will leave as they do not want to spend their entire career on this case. By the time this goes to a jury you could have had a child and put it in preschool.

I wonder how many more Caylee’s photos and videos are left to be sold and pay all of JB’s staff. Should I believe they work for free? I find it difficult to believe.
Poor Caylee, she deserved more respect. Sad!!!!

Update: Now Marti Mckenzie “spokeswoman for the defense has resigned”. I was sick this morning after seeing the newly released photos by the prosecution. Caylee’s baby doll and the car seat just about did me in. LE was right when they told Casey that people will see her as a cold, callous monster. She is a toxic empty shell of a human being. For Cindy, George and Lee to lie to protect this worthless girl is beyond me. What did Casey ever contribute to her family besides heartache and humiliation even before she killed her child. If the Anthony family can look at these new photos and continue to support worthless, they deserve the hatred of so many.

Okay, I’ve moved all comments about today’s discovery release to the new thread – in case you wonder where they went!

Valhall,

I went back in time and I was listening to the interview from last year, February 19, 2009 where LKB and JB were talking about “junk science” to Wesh… and blah blah blah… so if the defense claims that just DNA should be presented to the court and also LKB says she will educate the judges about it (BTW, good luck on that), why in the world are they trying to come up with statements made by bitter ex wives of Mr. Kronk? It’s not junk science, not science so it should not be allowed right? Defense makes no sense to me. Well, we all know they will twist the truth and I am really disgusted by these so called high profile lawyers. They are despicable!!!!
What about Caylee?

http://www.wftv.com/news/22593225/detail.html

Eyewitness News was told the Anthonys and their lawyer, Brad Conway, were looking for a lawyer to represent Casey who was willing to forego getting money upfront. Longtime Orlando attorney Robert Buonauro told Eyewitness News on Wednesday the Anthonys and Conway wanted to replace Casey’s defense attorney, Jose Baez, early on in the case.

Buonauro says Conway said Casey and her family were broke and, if he were willing to do without money upfront, there was the possibility of some sort of defense fund or book or movie rights down the road. Buonauro said no.

The defense team has just lost its second spokesperson, longtime public relations expert Marti Mackenzie. Some speculate it’s because the defense is out of money. All she would tell Eyewitness News was she was being paid for her year of work, she was not under contract and that she quit for confidential, professional reasons.

WFTV legal analyst Bill Sheaffer says a stronger indication that defense finances are in trouble is the fact that the defense has not really even begun to depose major witnesses in the death penalty case. He says depositions are labor intensive and expensive.

“There’s too much on the line to pick and choose which depositions of the individuals you want to take,” Sheaffer said.

Sheaffer also said the fact that Mackenzie and two nationally-known members of the defense, Linda Kenney Baden and Andrea Lyon, have written books could indicate an expectation that at least some compensation for work on the case would come from possible book or movie deals down the road about the case against Casey.

Eyewitness News was first to report that the ABC network paid Casey Anthony about $200,000 for all her photos and videos of Caylee about a year and a half ago. But Sheaffer said an experienced defense lawyer might charge almost that much to take on a case like this.

Valhall,

I am really curious about the heart shaped sticker that was supposed to be over the duct tape on Caylee’s mouth. Since you have read the scientific reports what does it really say anything about it? Once I heard on TV that the sticker was destroyed and the scientist didn’t take a photo of it before testing, what is the truth about the existence of the heart shaped sticker? Do you know any of this?
Please and thank you very much!!!

Just wanted to apologize for my absence on the board. Hubby and I have spent the past two days tearing the horror of a staircase out of our house, rebuilding two major sections of the upstairs floor (which come to find out was just…not…supported) and getting ready to build a wider, shallower stair turned 180 degrees from the old one. Oh – and we plan to incorporate the novel feature of all the steps being the same height and width…just for fun.

Anyways, we’ve been busting hump! One more day and we have new stairs!

Hard work! But so very satisfying!!

Please pardon my ignorance, however, I am not up to speed with the ZG civil suit (and upcoming trial) against Casey.
*The ZG that signed the guest card at Sawgrass*

Last I read, Casey was counter suing ZG.
If Casey drops her counter suit (if she hasn’t already), does Casey then still have to appear in court for the civil suit (it only makes sense that she would still have to), however…

Can someone enlighten me?

TIA

» Mimi said: { Feb 20, 2010 – 11:02:53 } on “The power of circumstantial evidence” thread

Singleton was given the maximum sentence at the time – 14 years. He was charged with mayhem and attempted murder. He had an exemplary prison record and served 8 years of the 14 year sentence (which was longer by several years than most people would serve on a 14 year sentence with good time). He was a first time offender at the time of this crime. He had been a merchant marine for over 25 years. Then he was paroled.

I do not see that they could have done anything different except to make him flatten the sentence by refusing to grant parole, but that would have only kept him in prison a short time longer. Society pays for tougher prison sentences by footing the bill for more and more prisons and all of the accouterments that an operating prison requires to keep the inmates inside. There is always going to be some trade off point between the burden to the state financially and the potential harm that the individual may perpetrate during a future release.

After Singleton was released there was a new class of law created because of public outrage over his release. SCOTUS may not have allowed Singleton to be sentenced to death in 1978 even had the laws of California allowed this. They may not have allowed him to be sentenced to life in prison had the law allowed that at the time. The country was still in a rehabilitation phase then (although this had started to wane by 1980 and was gone by 1986 when Singleton was paroled).

Justice is an evolving standard and it meanders between mercy and harshness across the years. I am sorry for Roxanne (the woman that Singleton killed in Florida), but I do not think that it could have been prevented under our system of justice as it then existed.

Sorry. Her name was ROXANNE HAYES. I couldn’t remember her last name off of the top of my head. She deserves the respect of me getting her name correct though!

William,

You make the statement “I do not see that they could have done anything different …”

That’s the whole point trying to be made by others, isn’t? if the system does not allow MORE to be done concerning a person (and I don’t care if he was the Pope for 25 years) who would cut a baby’s arms off, then the system is broken. THAT’s the point.

And concerning the statement of the public paying for tougher, longer sentencing. Let’s be clear on something. The prisons are for THAT – keeping arm-whacking maniac merchant marines out of society. What has burdened the prison system is NOT long terms for monsters like him, but the millions of people in jail because they had a spliffer in their car ashtray.

We’ve forgotten what the prison system was for, over-populated it with archaic fears of murdering pot-smokers who the majority of the general populace has been duped into believing are at any moment on the verge of decimating society while letting arm-whacking freaks roam around and kill our babies and women.

That’s the point.

And the same thing holds true for anyone who would murder their own child. I don’t care if my tax money has to go for an injection or a life in prison, all I demand is they don’t walk the street anymore to continue to threaten society.

I don’t care if you’re hitting a doobie in your living room. The PROVEN instances of “violent murdering pot-smokers” is about A BIG PHAT ZERO…but if you’ll kill your own child – you’ll kill me or mine. I want you 1. dead, or 2. in prison forever. And I’ll gladly pay the bill either way.

Agreed Val

BTW, how are the stairs coming?

Well, “sleepin’ Jesus” hasn’t gotten his ear out of the pillow yet, so I just completed my homework assignment for the week (yeah, still got that on my plate as well).

What we have to do today is:

1. Build the downstairs wall to set the line on the stairwell.

2. Build the header for the stairwell.

3. Set 3 18′ stringers.

4. Install temporary treads (we’re just going to put down pine decking for the time being because we’ll have to save up for the finish material).

5. Then using the new stairs we will rebuild a second section of the second floor that is currently not properly built/supported.

Then we’ll be done until we can save up our pennies for whatever we decide to tackle next. Not sure what that will be yet. The finish out on the stairs will take multiple thousands so that is probably further out.

Val – I could not agree with you more. I do not smoke pot myself, but really, the anti-pot drug laws and prison sentences are absolutely illogical. When you read about or see cases of domestic violence on tv (“Cops” etc.), you’re not seeing pot-smoking folks beating on their wives or kids – that’s alcohol. And that’s legal. DWI? Pot smokers don’t get arrested for that — that’s alcohol. Crazy car crashes killing people? Same – alcohol. Pot smokers stay home, watch tv, eat pizza, and as far as I can tell, drive fine when they do drive. And I don’t believe it’s a “gateway” drug — no way. People who want to get “mellow” and happy are NOT the people who want to get crazy energetic and high as a kite — those meth and crack users probably use pot as a secondary drug to help them “come down.” Anyway, to waste our resources on arresting, trying, and incarcerating people for pot possession is doing a disservice to victims and potential victims of true criminal acts. I don’t like my tax dollars being “wasted” in this way. I want my tax money to keep criminals from harming me, my family and my community.

We do everything we can ourselves so that we can use the best finish materials we can buy. There have only been five things we have had other people do:

1. Building the roof over the bay (because that was pretty tricky). The bay is actually ON a corner. Look at any house and you will see that the bay is never on the corner – it’s offset by at least a foot. There’s a good reason for that. It’s a geometric impossibility (almost) to put a bay ON a corner. But the original house had the bay ON the corner so we duplicated it to keep it as close to the original design as possible. We had to bring some one in on that one.
2. Shingling the roof.
3. Laying the marble and granite in the master bathroom and the powder room.
4. Doing the plumbing in the master bathroom.
5. All drywall work. (We hang the sheetrock, but the mud, tape and texture is done by a local guy who has done it for over 45 years.)

Hubby did all plumbing and all tile work in the main bathroom himself.

Included in the spectacular feats pulled off to-date:

1. Tore down a two-story 30 foot long, 8 feet wide side porch and balcony.
2. Rebuilt a two-story 30 foot long, 10 foot wide replacement that is now part of the house. The downstairs portion of this will be a library and has the powder room at the back. The upstairs part is part of our master suite and has the master bath in the back.
3. I designed and we hand-built AND INSTALLED OURSELVES over 40 (don’t remember the exact number now) trusses to rebuild the roof over the side add-on. The old porch/balcony had a flat roof and looked liked a two-story trailer house hanging off the side of the house, so we designed our own truss system to create a hip roof and then had the contractor build the bay roof off of this.
4. I designed and we hand-cut the stringers for the new stairs.
5. We’re going from a 29″ wide WAY TO STEEP staircase, to a 3′ wide ergonomically correct pitch staircase. The old staircase opened in the center of the house (you entered from the kitchen). We are turning it 180 degrees to where you enter it from the library. This allows us to actually have a landing on the second floor versus walking into a wall and having to turn 90 degrees to get to the rest of the upstairs.

Oh, and hubby refinished all the wood floors downstairs and then we did the complete finish out work in the living room. Including a faux flashed-copper ceiling using the polystyrene tiles that I had to handpaint with three coats of metallic paint to get the flashed-copper look.

We’ll never be finished.

It’s a running joke between hubby and my son…when my son comes over Hubby says:

“Let me show you what we got done on your house this week.”

LOL – if we get it finished before we die it will be a miracle.

Add to that, Steffiee, that we see these ludicrous sentencings of a guy shoplifting a pack of cigarettes and getting 10 years and you get to the overpopulation of the prison system.

A shoplifter can be rehabilitated. Some one who cuts a baby’s arms off can’t. The system is whacked beyond belief.

I would rather have sexual predators/offenders, and pedophiles put away indefinitely or forever. Let the pot smokers out to make space for the more dangerous and damaging. Pot smokers, if addicted, can be rehabbed. The serious sexual offenders and pedophiles can not be rehabbed. The recidivism is high. they do not change.

Val, I can certainly relate to the remodeling/adding on/repairing do it yourself thing. Hubby and I have done many things, including building fences, remodeling our kitchen, laying tile, tearing off our backdeckand building a sunroom, then builging a patio outside the sunroom, etc. And we have many plans for the future. As for the house you live in, it sounds a lot like the house I grew up in. The staircase was right in front of you when you came in the front door, 13 steps, narrow, and STEEP. Every one of us kids fell down it more than once.

I’ve been slogging back through the SA transcripts with George and Cindy. Lord, but did they lie! All they needed to do was (as the SA suggested) go back and watch their taped interviews with OCSO and FBI. (I also re-watched those before reading the SA’s transcripts). It is funny, as many others have said, that George could not remember anything specifically when asked, EXCEPT for the last day he saw Casey and Caylee. That he could remember down to whether there was a gnat on the bananas in the kitchen. And his tourettes syndrome about the tape on the gas can – spare me!

What is you say about getting off subject!

» Steffiee said: { Feb 21, 2010 – 08:02:26 }

Steffie and Val, I also agree. Not that I smoke pot nor do I want my kids doing it, but – and I know this is not a popular opinion – I do believe that the laws should allow for medical use (such as in California). I have been told by family members of those with terminal cancer who have been through the experience that even morphine will not completely relieve the pain. If a puff or two or ten of pot would help their pain, why not, for goodness sake? Not meaning to turn this into a discussion on the legalities of pot smoking, but why would we not do anything and everything we could to help ease the suffering of someone who probably is not going to survive? Would that be criminal?

“Let me show you what we got done on your house this week.”

Val
LOL, and probably true. But home improvement projects are gratifying, if not never ending.

It feels better than doing one’s laundry. That is a thankless perpetual task. At least construction projects stay done for a while.

My main reason for posting my statement here was to bring the discussion over here to this thread. I figured that I would accomplish that best by putting things in controversy. I am aware that the reason we have over flowing prisons is because we have lost sight as a society on what real crimes are. CRIMES AGAINST PEOPLE. Crimes against yourself – like smoking dope are not where we need to be focused as a society. If we were to do away with these kinds of crimes then we would have TOO MANY PRISONS already. I get it.

I am just saying that there is a penalty for people being locked up. I am willing to shoulder my part – but only for CRIMES AGAINST PEOPLE not against self.

The problem is that society (read government) has decided that they will not do away with the crimes against self. Then states like California run out of money and they start looking for ways to save quickly. Arkansas has been known to do it too. What do they do? They start kicking out prisoners and they do not differentiate between violent and nonviolent offenders most of the time.

Our system is non-sustainable as it currently exists. We have more people in prison than any other nation. It is non-sustainable because of the crimes against self more than anything else. We need to fix this. Then people like Roxanne’s killer can be sentenced to life in prison first time around. And also the killer of my sister Carrie.

C*ap! Carrie/Carey BAD when you misspell your sister’s name!!

William

On a bad day, with bad typing, I’ve spelled my own name incorrectly.
No worries.

I agree with you William. I’m especially hot about the torture issue too. Anyone who tortures or kills with sadism is a guaranteed risk to society forever in my opinion. Why they are not differentiated from non-violent criminals is a mystery.

Frankly, I think a young kid who shoots a gun in the air randomly and winds up killing someone isn’t in the same category either. They can be rehabilitated. They shouldn’t be locked away for their entire lives. And as tragic and senseless a crime as a drunk driving fatality is — that too is a rehabilitation issue.

Most of all, no non-violent criminal (drug dealer, 3X pizza stealer, car thief, etc.) should get the same sentence (or wind up serving the same time with parole) as a torturer.

Our justice system, our parole system, is out of whack. There seems to be no common sense or humanity employed when they mete out these sentences and these paroles.

I would like to ask a general question for anyone with a better memory than me to answer…and that could be a LOT of you out there! It involves D. Casey’s search in the woods and the filming of the search by Mr. Hoover.
I am very certain that I read at the time that some of that video that was taken was erased by D. Casey and I believe it was Mr. Hoover who made this statement. Does anyone else remember this, too?
Assuming that my memory is correct:
I am wondering at this point if what was erased was not film that showed D. Casey actually finding Caylee’s body. It could also be that he erased part of the film because something was said that he did not want to ever be heard by anyone. (For example, he might have, by mistake, named names or something along those lines.)
I am very happy that when Leonard Padilla learned of this video through Mr. Hoover he went straight to the FBI with this information. I have a feeling that this particular subject is going to be very important and that we will hear all about the details if there ever is a trial.
I’ll appreciate if anyone can answer that question and, in the meantime, I will try to find it on my own. (Not just trying to get someone else to do my work but I do not do research very well…at all.)

Ah, that’s what I get for reading the comments from last to first! So it turns out I agree with everyone.

Good luck with the renovation, Val. It WILL be over and you WILL be alive to enjoy the fruits of your labor…

Kudos, Val & hubby. I remember my post-Katrina days of laser-focused to-do-list-making. Multiple lists for multiple projects. And then it’s funny how later, you step back and are like, wow – how did that happen? Who did that – it’s beautiful! lol

A last point on what turned out to be my pot vs alcohol post: You NEVER see a “mean” pot smoker but you often see a mean drunk.

Pot smoker: “Pass the chips (or ice cream).” and “Wow, come see these cool elephants (on the National Geographic channel).”

Mean drunk: “You *&%$#* (slap) X#!@&% (punch-kick-spit). [sirens in distance, children crying in background]

If one recreational drug is legal and the other is not, we have to question the sanity of the system, IMO, and hold up the way our money is being spent into the bright light of something like evidence-based reality — ask: is it wise? is it working? what does the evidence show? You know, (nudge nudge) maybe do a scientific review of the research, etc. etc.

Hey Val – in the past 12 months, I have: tiled a patio floor, enclosed a garage and installed aluminum siding, patched/sanded/primed and painted REAL plaster and lathe walls (cool stuff), scraped off linoleum adhered with what looks like dried tar, laid down pergo flooring, helped rewire a house, and electric and hand-sanded an old painted wooden door. And all that was just for fun! Not like the wear you down, never-ending first 2 years after the storm. But I have to admit, demolition can be fun and cathartic! I love reno projects! Sorry if I am following you waaaaay off-topic, lol.

Hey, our prisons are too crowded. Let’s see… who should we release to ease the burden… the pot smoker or the guy who cut off a girl’s arms after a brutal rape? Hmm… what to do, what to do. Oh yeah, let’s let the guy out who used the axe cuz really he just did that arm-cut-off thingie the ONE TIME… and he’s been such a pleasure to have around… we’ll miss ya Larry since you’ve been really great company but we gotta solve this overcrowding situ… Bye Larry! Have fun stormin’ the castle!

The reason we have more people in jail than any other country is simple……They Execute theirs, we dont execute enough here……too many bleeding hearts in this country……

Sort of on topic. I’m just listening to a program on jail populations here in Canada. The program relates in part to the subject of the presumption of innocence and it is one I will have to listen to this again because I am too distracted.

I was SHOCKED at two statistics I heard for two provinces. The numbers probably bear out in other provinces. In Ontario 70% of the jail population is comprised of individuals who couldn’t make bail and are awaiting trial. In Manitoba the number was 65%. In Ontario they had to seriously reduce programs for prisoners because they were so busy and out of funds just dealing with the overall size of the population and problems related to over crowding.

Our prisons are clogged with the individuals others have mentioned and sadly a huge percentage are aboriginal. Most of them shouldn’t be there at all.

» William Hill said: { Feb 21, 2010 – 10:02:27 }

William, I’m so very sorry about your sister. If you had posted this before I sadly missed it. Although I have not suffered such a loss, I can certainly agree with your comments. And yes, Arkansas is one of the worst as far as just opening the door and letting them out, regardless of the crime. I have my opinion about the reasons for that, but I’d rather keep it to myself, because it involves politics and other subjects that are too inflammatory for this site, and I just do not want to go there.

You may remember the Jonesboro school shooting, with the boys who were placed in a juvenile center until age 21. Well, Mitchell Johnson is back in jail – adult jail this time – after having moved to Fayetteville and teaming up with another young man who killed his father with a crossbow as a juvenile – and was also released at 21. I believe Mr. Johnson was in trouble more than once after his release, but was in possession of a firearm when arrested the final time.

One of the victims of the Jonesboro shooting was a little girl who was originally from my area of the state, and her father still lives here. I simply cannot imagine what a parent or family member must feel when you lose a loved one to violence. My heart goes out to you, William, and all of the others who have lost family members or have been victims of violent crime.

There must be a change in laws – in every state – to distinguish violent crime from pot smoking and that type of crime. I believe if enough of us voice our opinion, over and over, to the right people, we will eventually have those changes. Not soon enough, in my opinion.

HINA, I agree. It seems like such a no-brainer… A child can distinguish who is an ultimate danger and who is not. Fund the rehabilitation of non-violent criminals and move them back out as functioning members of society. This would save a heck of a lot of the tax-payers money in the long run. A non-violent offender back on their feet can make contributions in the world. But that’s long-term thinking and we’re a short-term, knee-jerk idea society.

I think you’re onto something about the politics. Some *crimes* like drugs are the crime du jour and politicians pander instead of lead. This will pass and another crime will be the flavor of the day and receive sentences that are too harsh and inappropriate while the depraved walk.

It’s really too much to understand.

» jennyb said: { Feb 21, 2010 – 11:02:25 }

I have often thought that it was done this way when left up to prison employees because of job security.

Let’s see we need one more to make our quota – no, Ron has learned his lessen so we need to keep him – I know Roy will be back, let’s let Roy go….

And money talks – whether it be the ability to hire expensive attorneys vs public defenders, or something more sinister. (One of my opinions I’m keeping to myself) But you get my meaning. I think sometimes the ridiculous sentences for the less vile crimes are just the manner of thinking that these people are ‘disposable’ and so let’s pin it on them. And yes, some prisons are like revolving doors. Let the habitual drug users and petty criminals go ahead and do it again…not that I’m saying they should not receive punishment and rehabilitation, but there you go. Are they a menace to society?

We have in my area a drug court program, which I’m sure is similar to other programs throughout the country. I watch episodes of it on local cable. These are mostly meth users, but other drugs as well, but NO violent crimes. These cases are transferred from other courts by the judges who feel they are candidates for rehabilitation. They go through a year-long process during which they go to AA or NA or counseling EVERY DAY, they are randomly drug-tested, they are required to maintain employment, pay victim restitution it that applies, have a valid drivers license, and have or obtain a high school diploma or GED BEFORE they are able to graduate from this program. Basically, teaching them what they should have been taught growing up, but some of the background stories these people have will make your hair curl. Raised by druggie parents, abandoned, living on the street, just hard for me to imagine. Sure, they may screw up during the process, and some are made to start all over, spend time in jail, or are terminated and sentenced to prison. But at least it determines who will and will not become a productive member of society.

Can I just chime in here and state that for some, pot-smoking is not just some harmless recreational thing, with no violence attached to it at all? Someone I know used to break & enter (and get into violent psycho fights over)- taking enormous risks, for “just” pot. Favorite things to steal, other than cash- coin collections, jewelry, cameras and best of all, handguns. He and his little posse would than head up to the Big City and trade for whatever was available, but his drug of choice was pot. Just pointing out that Kingston, Jamaica isn’t some mellow, crime-free paradise- there are some people who do not handle weed any better than they do booze. Lots of people end up in ERs over “just” pot….

Oh, and if you’re whacked on weed your ability to react to, say, a light changing to red is just as bad as a drunk driver. A very good friend of mine lost her fiance to 2 potheads who sailed right through a red, so, yeah, it does happen…

Oh, agreed, KarenC. Not trying to say that any kind of drug use is OK. But the comparison to violent crime and its punishment is what I was referring to. And again, my stance on the terminally ill being able to use it for pain, still goes. I know that some people will react violently to any kind of stimulus. But generally speaking, pot use does not, in and of itself, usually result in violent behavior. Other drugs and alcohol, yes. Thankfully, I’ve not had to find that out personally.

Hi, Here- No, I quite agree with you on the crime and punishment front. I was reacting more to other comments upthread just totally minimizing the bad effects of pot. I have been at enough Family Day/Week events at Rehabs and heard enough stories around the tables, as it were, that start out with “Well, I started getting high when I was 14 with my _______(fill in name of relative/friend), just a few joints, you know…” Doesn’t always end with just a few joints! EVERY drug counselor I know/spoken to/heard at a meeting, listened to a tape of- EVERY SINGLE ONE would say, no question about it, pot is a “gateway” drug. You don’t get to p-q-r- or s without passing through e or f first, ya know? Medical marijuana I’m all for- IF you have cancer, AIDS, glaucoma and you have tests and diagnostics to prove it!

Respectfully it sounds like “Reefer Madness” redux. I’d like to see a scientific study of the millions (billions) of ordinary people who smoked pot and never went another step, maybe continued smoking for their entire lives without incident (except maybe gaining too many snack food pounds). We don’t have the numbers on this so there’s no way to quantify.

To me, it’s like… uh, looking at a famous actor (Judd Hirsch comes to mind) who drove a taxi while he was trying to break into show business. He happened to make it. How many taxi drivers (or waitresses, or, or… are still driving and still waiting tables and never got their shot. Is taxi driving a prerequisite to fame and fortune? I don’t think so.

I will point out one more thing and then I am done with this topic. If marijuana were not a crime, there would be no expense in acquiring it. It would be cheaper than whiskey. Before it became a crime, there were a few people who used it and did bad things while under the influence, but far less than those who drank. There was no huge rush to become a pot head either before it was criminalized. I would suspect that the numbers of people who used pot then was significantly less than the numbers who use it now.

It was thrown into the mix of outlaw drugs because of it’s similarity to hash and the ethnicity of those who used it for religious ceremonies. The only good Indian and all of that… I am part American Indian, so I am aware of this aspect of it.

If we are going to continue to discuss this then we should probably move to the misc. thread that is not about the Anthony case….

Waiting tables, acting? Sorry, but Huh? I guess you’ve never been the family member at the Rehab to watch a coin or chip get picked up. Maybe you’ve never been in the ER when someone has gone into a tree. Pills, pot, blow or booze there can be horrendous consequences. It would be great if we did have more data to work with- let’s see how things work out for Cal. in a few years… there’s reasons why Amsterdam has tightened things up considerably.

“If we are going to continue to discuss this then we should probably move to the misc. thread that is not about the Anthony case….”

LOL William. We’ve had a mind-meld. I’m done. 8)

William Hill- Agreed, misc. thread would be good, apropos for this topic. I’m off to pick up my own kid (who, BTW, is not getting any mixed messages from me! And I used to be completely laissez-faire on all this stuff- no more!), so gone for a while.

If we want to get picayune, it’s likely that alcohol is actually the gateway drug to everything else.

I’m gonna duck and run for cover! Never meant this to turn into THAT kind of discussion. That said, let’s get back on topic, shall we?

Who here wants to know what the evidence is that Judge Strickland agreed to review before making a ruling on the SA’s request to have a closed-door meeting without the press or the defense present?

HINA:

Me. Where is it posted at?

8O

I have not seen anything on it, yet. Val, article, please?

Here is a link to the Judge’s doc:

http://www.wftv.com/pdf/22593009/detail.html

Actually, I thought that the Judge said no on the exparte meeting and instead allowed to state to file a motion that would be sealed until the Judge had a chance to consider it. The state would have to justify the motion to withhold the evidence from both the public and the defense and would have to lay out an exact amount of time that they were looking to delay both releases by. In the mean time, the Judge would look at the evidence in question in chambers.

allowed to/allowed the

That is how I understand it as well, William. Any speculation as to what it could be that they don’t want released yet?

It has to be something very unusual. Not the run of the mill sort of thing demonstrating guilt or innocence. Yet, it also cannot be something which could be viewed as exonerating for the Defendant since it would be reversible error to withhold such evidence from the defense for even a short time. That leaves evidence which is highly prejudicial to the defense, but which hurts an active investigation of some sort which is still on-going, I should think. I would think that it cannot be something new about Casey or Caylee at this point. Since they have pretty much run to ground all of the physical or circumstantial evidence of this ilk already.

It could be evidence having to do with other participants in the crime or having to do with accomplice after the fact things. That would be my guess. It is not about the attorneys as they would handle that differently.

Interesting. But is the State requited to release ALL of their evidence to the Defense at the same time? Could there possibly be evidence they’ve had for a while that they do not want to release yet?

An accomplice after the fact. Interesting Mr. Hill. Perhaps someone revealing that there was an acomplice after the fact. This motion seems rather unusual. Like the State wants to protect this individual for some reason. Maybe from the media or maybe from his wife. 8O

Maybe D. Casey? Anyone?

» karen lee said: { Feb 21, 2010 – 06:02:20 } maybe from his wife. 8O

Karen Lee, could you mean who I think you mean?

Sorry, Val, hope we don’t get our hands smacked for speculating : ! I am curious about this – can’t help myself.

They are required to release it as soon as it IS evidence. In other words they can keep some things from the defense for a time because it is still being developed or because it is still being tested at a lab for example. Once they have notice that it IS of evidentiary value they have a 15 day time limit for turning it over to the defense. Rules Crim. Pro. 3.220

Turning it over here just means telling them what the evidence is NOT giving them actual physical evidence (if it is physical evidence).

I doubt that it would have anything to do with the D. Casey rumor as I would have expected that to be handled in an entirely different matter if that rumor were true.

On another topic, we have all seen the video of DC poking around in the woods. Upthread here, Mimi thinks part of the video was erased. Regardless, why were they video recording that search? Whether the info to search there came from Cindy, a seer (can’t spell the other word) or just a hunch, why tape it? Just go look. Was this to prove Caylee wasn’t there? She’s not here, so no one ever look here again. She’s not here today, so if she ever is here it couldn’t have been Casey that put her here. Of course he was slightly off, but just to even be in that area is rather suspicious. I’m certain he knew Caylee was there somewhere. If DC or the Anthony’s had a police scanner, they might have known of Kronk’s previous sightings of Caylee. I suck at research, but I’m curious when Kronk’s calls and DC’s search took place.

I would have expected an arrest of Cindy if the D. Casey rumor were true.

Ah, I see. Wonder if it could be someone who’s afraid of his mother? Naw, and we don’t even have a dufus smiley!

Karen, didn’t Cindy even make the statement that ‘we’ve already had someone out there in November’ (paraphrasing)?

LOL NW Arkansas, was I that obvious? And, of course it’s all just speculation but it gets tiresome to type JMHO after everything we type.

It was a place which was known to Lee and Casey as children. Lee was working closely with Dominic trying to ingratiate himself so that he could become a PI. He could have mentioned the area in passing and Dominic could have called his psychic friend and mentioned it as a possible place to focus her psychic energies on. Or whatever.

There are ways that Dominic could have ended up there without being an accomplice. As for the taping it part – he needed to show that he was working to get paid. This would provide him with evidence that they had driven out there on a psychic tip and poked around in furtherance of finding Caylee.

Maybe?

I am done speculating for now on this. My head is sore enough from all of the 2X4 whacks that I have received previously!!! 8O We will simply have to wait and see what develops….

Was reading transcripts of Scott Peterson’s interviews and I am a firm believer that him and Casey have got to be related somehow…He lies and lies and lies, they both were out of town a lot…He is in Paris..Not @ the vigil for the very missed Laci and the sadly unknown Conner. They were found exactly where he was…Wow what a mind blower. Listened to the juror’s afterwards and they were all of the meetings of the mind when they said it was a trust matter. Laci as an adult could not protect herself or her unborn child, may they rest in peace…I shudder to know how defenseless Little Caylee was…Jackie Peterson was pretty rude and angry, but Cindy gives new meaning to lying, and motherly limits.

I want to believe that Lee & Jackie miss their grandchild, I also have seen and heard with my ears and eye as the whole world has how little Cindy cares or cared about Caylee. Even Conner that never got to take his first gasp of air on earth was considered the Rocha families grandson, and they honored him with so much love and respect even to this day. I would never extend Cindy a shoulder to cry on let alone lean on, she deserves to be locked up with all the photos of Caylee decorating her walls along with her evil, evil, evil daughter.

» William Hill said: { Feb 21, 2010 – 07:02:08 }
trying to ingratiate himself so that he could become a PI.

Well, now, that didn’t work out too well, did it?

To me the biggest smoking gun is the “diary of death” in Casey’s own handwriting. After it was announced to the media last January, Baez checked himself into a hospital with stomach pains. Many have pointed out that the diary is from 2003, however this is on the cover page of the journal. It is very likely that Casey started to write in her blank journal at that time but continued on from time to time over the years as many a young woman does…up until and after Casey went ‘missing’. It should be an easy job for forensics to determine the age of ink on a page. An no doubt handwriting analysis will show that it is from Casey’s own hand.

In the diary, twisted Casey spelled out her evil intentions and said she planned to murder her daughter as a “mercy killing” to keep her out of the hands of her mother, Cindy. Police believe the night before Caylee died, Casey and her mother had a vicious fight, and Cindy swore that she would take the little girl away from Casey for good.
Casey snapped. In her sick mind, she became convinced that Caylee would be better off dead, in heaven, than in the hands of her mother.

One page of a diary in which Casey wrote: “I have no regrets, just a bit worried. I just want for everything to work out okay. I completely trust my own judgment. I know that I made the right decision.” The diary contains other shocking details, including notes Casey had written about chloroform and the deadliness of pesticides. In it, she also refers to Caylee as “the little snot” and revealed that she killed Caylee because she was “taking care of something” and “punishing someone,” meaning Cindy.

Police are firmly convinced that Caylee’s death was not an accident, but an intentional murder. The reason they are so sure is this diary, in which Casey basically admits she killed her daughter. I think this diary is the ultimate smoking gun – dead bang physical evidence that proves beyond a doubt that Casey is guilty.

It will be presented at trial. A confession of why Casey killed Caylee – in her own handwriting.

Wow – I have never heard that! Do you have a link, please? Or has it been released yet? I know I heard of a journal, and have seen two pages, but not those details.

To: Renee – FL.

I second that…do you have a link to the death diary, or the info, which states Casey wrote this in the diary?

As HINA wrote below, I too have only seen two pages (or read of the two pages).

Thank you,
WB

******************************************************************

» Here in Northwest Arkansas said: { Feb 21, 2010 – 09:02:10 }

Wow – I have never heard that! Do you have a link, please? Or has it been released yet? I know I heard of a journal, and have seen two pages, but not those details.

Between these three slide shows there are a bunch of pictures of calendars where investigators made notes during their investigation of Casey’s case. I had not seen these before. They are interesting – especially after they are blown up so that you can sort of read them (only sort of though since they are fuzzy and you end up having to guess at various letters – or at least I do).

I have not been able to find any links to more than two pages of diary so far.

http://www.wftv.com/slideshow/news/19105250/detail.html
http://www.wftv.com/slideshow/news/19106388/detail.html
http://www.wftv.com/slideshow/news/19106765/detail.html

Okay, I third it Renee. Please provide proof. I think the only time little one was referred to as a snot head was in a text message.

One page of a diary in which Casey wrote: “I have no regrets, just a bit worried. I just want for everything to work out okay. I completely trust my own judgment. I know that I made the right decision.” The diary contains other shocking details, including notes Casey had written about chloroform and the deadliness of pesticides. In it, she also refers to Caylee as “the little snot” and revealed that she killed Caylee because she was “taking care of something” and “punishing someone,” meaning Cindy.

Show me where you read the above paragraph. I do not believe this at all. Renee, you have angered me. At Val’s site I have felt many emotions, but never anger. This site is full of truth and heart felt emotions. We speculate, but we don’t lie. Perhaps you can explain yourself.

http://www.examiner.com/x-1168-Crime-Examiner~y2009m3d20-Video–Missing-pages-of-Casey-Anthonys-diary-alleged-to-refer-to-mercy-killing-of-Caylee

………….”Nancy Grace Show producer, Natisha Lance reported that the alleged missing diary entries say the murder of Caylee was a mercy killing to protect her from her grandmother, Cindy Anthony. …”

..how can she report on the “missing” pages and what they contain?

I’m wondering if what Renee posted is a rumor or if, possibly, she has ‘inside’ information and feels she perhaps has already said too much? Renee?

In response to Karen Lee regarding the taping of DC searching the woods, I believe that In Hoover’s statement with LE he stated that he used his cell phone to record DC searching and that DC did NOT know that Hoover was recording him. I could be wrong because it was quite some time ago that I read the statement. Again, from what I recall, and again it could be incorrect, Hoover recorded this thinking he could make a few dollars on the side by selling it later on down the road.

No. Renee is stating that this is what it reads in Casey’s diary. We have seen all of what was written in Casey’s diary. We did not see what Renee saw.

AnnetteInMn, okay, if that is true (no reason to believe it’s not), then it makes sense to me. Hoover sucks as big as a vacuum.

I did a yahoo search for Casey Anthony Diary of Death, and this is one of the first links on the list. It has similar statements to what Renee has written.

http://a11news.com/1610/casey-anthony-diary/

Actually, reading it in full, it’s almost verbatim what Renee in FL wrote. That’s interesting. It refers to a ’source’ but, whatever. Who knows?

And here is one comment:

# justme or justyou Says:
September 10th, 2009 at 8:56 pm

Funny how you know so much about a diary that has NOT been released! You have the inside scoop from whom?

I googled this last night http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A28505360 cause I was bored.

I think that site is a blog that may have some legitimate sources for some of the articles, and it refers to a lot of different things, medical topics, crime, you name it. BUT the one about the diary is just phooey IMO.

The site I linked, not yours Karen.

this is interesting as well..( dealing with the diary etc…

http://tinyurl.com/8pux5c

…”Did George and Cindy know where the remains were? Lenny said no, he didn’t believe so. But, the 1.7 million dollar deal for the movie rights with Lifetime are tabled pending whether the Anthonys get indicted or not. In other words–if the Anthonys don’t get immunity, they won’t get the movie deal.

So far, ABC has allegedly paid $200,000 for home videos of Caylee.

Baez attempted to sell an interview with Casey for $500,000.

NBC paid $5000 for photo licensing.”

Click on my link to Casey’s court. LOL Good night friends.

karen lee said: { Feb 21, 2010 – 07:02:25 }

On another topic, we have all seen the video of DC poking around in the woods. Upthread here, Mimi thinks part of the video was erased. Regardless, why were they video recording that search? Whether the info to search there came from Cindy, a seer (can’t spell the other word) or just a hunch, why tape it? Just go look. Was this to prove Caylee wasn’t there? She’s not here, so no one ever look here again. She’s not here today, so if she ever is here it couldn’t have been Casey that put her here. Of course he was slightly off, but just to even be in that area is rather suspicious. I’m certain he knew Caylee was there somewhere. If DC or the Anthony’s had a police scanner, they might have known of Kronk’s previous sightings of Caylee. I suck at research, but I’m curious when Kronk’s calls and DC’s search took place.

karen lee, to answer your question~~~
Dominic Casey phoned Jim Hoover on November fourteenth. The two met on November 15 and D. Casey told Hoover that Caylee was dead and he knew where she was. The pair then went to the woods where D. Casey searched and “found nothing.” They met the next day and D. Casey searched again but “found nothing.” They were searching very close to the area where Caylee was discovered by Kronk on Dec. 11…a little less than a month after the D. Casey search.
D. Casey was following pavers into the woods during his search. The body WAS discovered near some pavers that lead into the woods, however; D. Casey apparently was following the wrong set of pavers. (A bit further down the road from where Caylee actually was found is where the second batch of discarded pavers were located in view of the road’s edge.) When D. Casey was in the woods poking with a stick, he was heard to say on film, by a reporter from, I believe, WFTV…”It should be right here.” This is only a reporter’s statement as the news people were allowed to watch and listen to the tape but were not allowed to broadcast the sound that accompanied the tape. However, the reporter insists that he heard D. Casey say this and played the tape over and over just to make sure.

I’m out as well. Thanks for all of the wonderful insight and info from Val and all of you great commenters!

You are not too far off with what you recall. I too recall Hoover stating that he videotaped DC with his cellphone unbeknownst to DC. (again, I may have read his statement or either watched the video – as I recall watching a video with Hoover at a depo or something of the sort).

Regarding the video of DC poking through the woods that was later broadcast – I’m not sure if this was the same ‘cell phone’ video, or if there was ‘another’ video that Hoover shot (with a camcorder). As would be expected, time takes it’s toll on the the memory (mine)…as it sure to affect the memory of prosecution & defense witnesses as well – with the lapse of time til trial).

BTW: What’s since happened to Hoover? Anyone know?

************************************************************

» AnnetteInMn said: { Feb 21, 2010 – 11:02:42 }

In response to Karen Lee regarding the taping of DC searching the woods, I believe that In Hoover’s statement with LE he stated that he used his cell phone to record DC searching and that DC did NOT know that Hoover was recording him. I could be wrong because it was quite some time ago that I read the statement. Again, from what I recall, and again it could be incorrect, Hoover recorded this thinking he could make a few dollars on the side by selling it later on down the road.

..hoover talks about maybe making some money down the road..(as “memorabilia”..in his FBI interview :

http://tinyurl.com/dnm6b7 (page 4 ).

..he talks quite a lot about the video taping in the woods in his “morgan/zenaida” depo. ( page 136 +)

http://tinyurl.com/dgn5bz

Concerning the video:

Hoover didn’t record it on his cell phone. He recorded with a small hand held recorder. D. Casey states he knew he was being videod, but not that he knew he was going to be videod. He stated once they got to the woods he turned around and saw Hoover videoing him and asked something like “what the hell are you doing?” and “put that up” but Hoover just kept on videoing.

The video was not partially erased. Hoover or a member of his family accidentally recorded a home video over a portion of it.

My personal opinion is that Hoover is the most truthful person on the Anthony side….which isn’t saying much.

Concerning the statements about the diary. While it appears the blog some one found is the origin for the rumors of its content, at this time there is no evidence that the diary contained more than the pages photographed and previously released.

Looking at the way the investigator’s calendar is “noted”, I would have expected a BIG NOTE had they found a “death diary” as suggested by that other blog or Renee. As far as I can tell, there is nothing like that on any of the dates.

I think the whole “death diary” is bupkis – other than what has been previously photographed and released.

Well, not to be too far off topic, or to belabor (that’s an appropriate word!) the subject, but we still don’t have stairs.

We busted our butts for 3 days straight and then the old bodies gave out yesterday evening. After rebuilding a significant part of the upper floor that we had not known we were going to have to do, and getting the entire hole that will be the new staircase built, as well as the header the stairs will attach to, all we have left is setting three 18′ long stringers and slapping down temporary treads.

We’re going to try to knock that out in the evenings after I get off work. Right now we’re climbing up and down an extension ladder. LMAO.

It truly is the money pit.

How can you be off topic? It is after all YOUR blog and YOU set the topics?

I am just saying…

I hope that things go better for you guys today on your build out cycle!!!

Good luck!
8O

LOL…true points, William, though I can’t seem to find a place to connect my stairs to Casey Anthony.

*keeps looking*

I can. If your computer is UPSTAIRS then you need stairs to get back and forth to it. The same if it is DOWNSTAIRS.

There ya go!!! Connection made… 8)

Another good point…yep, right now all you people are upstairs.

lol

Also, I would have thought that a confession in diary form would have been one of the first things the state would have released in this case way back when. Since they did not do so, I am going to go with this as evidence that the Renee and other blog rumor are not true.

At a minimum, the defense would have made an additional motion to keep this diary from the public eye until trial. Also, never happened and I take it as proof that we have seen everything that the diary has to offer.

Ipso Facto.

” Val-We’re going to try to knock that out in the evenings after I get off work. Right now we’re climbing up and down an extension ladder. LMAO.”

Well, keep up the sense of humor about it

Hoover secretly recorded George, Cindy, and Lee with his camera phone when they were being fingerprinted in Brad Conway’s office.

As for the woods, I agree with what Valhall has written – Dominic Casey said he did not ask Hoover to record the search of the woods and abandoned house but did realize Hoover was recording him.

Valhall and Maura,

Thanks for clearing up the questions about the recordings. I read it a long time ago and knew there was something done secretly but clearly I had my facts mixed up, not surprising. Thanks again.

“As for the woods, I agree with what Valhall has written – Dominic Casey said he did not ask Hoover to record the search of the woods and abandoned house but did realize Hoover was recording him.”

Maura

I don’t know about this. What did he think Hoover was doing? He had to have seen Hoover doing something off to the side. Why bring him and let him stand there doing nothing (not knowing he is taping)?
What would the purpose be? Casey could have gone out alone. Hoover didn’t assist Casey in the ‘poking around’ business, so I’m not sure that Casey didn’t want someone witnessing the big display or recording it. As I recall, (foggily), Hoover was pretty close to Casey while he was probing the ground by the abandoned house. How could a PI, of all people, not notice he was being recorded at that close range? I believe the Cindy and George incident was a horse of a different color, however.

Sorry Maura

I just realized that you wrote that he DID Know he was being recorded.

Yeah, WSH, he did know. But according to D. Casey’s statements and – indirectly Hoover’s – Casey did not take Hoover with him to specifically record. Remember, Hoover thought they were on their way to a search command center and he obviously brought the camera for that reason.

I think Casey took Hoover with him simply because he had just gotten the “tip” and he and Hoover had already planned to go to the command center. Note that he did not take Hoover back with him at the later date…because unless this has been discounted Casey went THREE times in November to search. Two days in a row and then about a week later. That last time he went without Hoover, if I recall correctly.

I still don’t know Val. In a way, I believe he took Hoover knowing ‘who he was’, if you get my drift. Hoover was the witness that ‘ nothing was there’.

And then, what really happened when Casey went back and Hoover wasn’t there? I wonder if we will ever know!

Val – you guys be careful on that ladder! On the other hand – if you pull it up with you at night – you’re pretty safe from intruders. Hadn’t really thought about that angle until you brought up self-protection. Someone breaking in would feel pretty foolish when they found out they couldn’t get upstairs! If it wasn’t a fire escape danger that is . . . on second thought – be careful until you get those stairs in.

I know this is an odd question but was wondering if anyone knows in what order the tape was placed on Caylee’s face. If the last piece of tape was placed over the nose, wouldn’t that be the proof positive of premeditation in Caylee’s murder?

I am not some ‘random blogger’. I live a little over an hour outside of Orlando and when this case unfolded, my own daughter was just a year older than Caylee so of course it drew my attention. Yes, only photos of two pages of the diary were released in evidence however, there are said to be other missing pages cut out of the diary that were found and have yet to be released.

Prior to the 2/18/09 release to the public, the defense team received case evidence. That weekend, Baez checked himself into the hospital for stomach pains. http://wdbo.com/localnews/2009/02/jose-baez-in-hospital-over-wee.html

What was one of the most talked about items in that specific evidence release? The diary. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxIJbmFwbfU ‘Sources’ say the pages that have not yet been released into evidence are damning. No, I don’t have the photos of the other missing pages to prove to you verbatim what is in there. Just because the other pages haven’t been released to the public, doesn’t mean they don’t exist. Latent print evidence for Casey’s fingerprints on the duct tape hasn’t been released to the public, doesn’t mean there aren’t any. Yes, Nancy Grace (if you any credit to her ‘coverage’) covered this topic of the missing page content: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZmmnbq9pZU There are sites that further detail what may be in those other unreleased diary pages. http://a11news.com/1610/casey-anthony-diary/ http://derekclontz.com/2009/01/22/casey-anthony-murder-diary-found-claims-source-and-weve-got-world-exclusive-excerpts/ Agreed, until the pages actually make it into evidence, information from these ‘sources’ is all speculative.

Who might the ‘sources’ be? Within a month of all of this, there was a big shake up at the OCSO in part because of the number of leaks coming from someone within their office. I remember seeing an interview with Sheriff Deming on this topic on the local news. The only evidence of it on Net I can find is this:
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/1566467/casey_anthony_case_sheriff_deming_afraid.html?cat=17

The line was drawn in the sand and from that point on, very few salacious details outside of the basic document dumps. My whole point in bringing this up was to not anger anyone or spread rumor (or be called ‘the Renee’). If the ‘sources’ are correct, then in my opinion (gee, is it OK to have one on this blog without getting attacked?) this diary of death is the smoking gun that everyone is looking for. In her own handwriting. No wonder Jose got a stomach ache.

There is evidence in the diary which I hope that the FBI found, although I have not seen any indication that they have so far. I hope that they will have a forensic document examiner look over the diary paper that the June 21 entry is on. I can see indications of aome very helpful evidence just through examining the picture of this document and tinkering with contrast and brightness.

There once were other pages in front of this page which have been torn out. Some of the writing from those missing pages shows up as pressure indentations on the remaining page. On at least one of those pages there seems to have been a date with 2008 written in it. there is also a phone number that was written on at least one page which can be read with the right technology. If I can see it just through playing with the picture, then I know that they can bring it out clear as day using dusting and chemical techniques!

Also, the ‘03 looks different than the 0s that Casey writes nd the 3s that she writes. I bet that they could differentiate that ‘03 from her handwriting exemplars. I think it might be possible that someone doctored the diary to try to make it look unconnected and that the someone was not Casey.

Here in Northwest Arkansas said: { Feb 21, 2010 – 11:02:23 }

I did a yahoo search for Casey Anthony Diary of Death, and this is one of the first links on the list. It has similar statements to what Renee has written.

http://a11news.com/1610/casey-anthony-diary/
***************************************************************

Thanks HINA!

I followed your link, low and behold, that site posted this disclaimer:

Disclaimer

A11News.com is a news and gossip site which publishes rumors and conjecture in addition to accurately reported facts.

Information on this site may or may not be true and A11News.com makes no warranty as to the validity of any claims.

**************************************************************

Also, as far as I can remember, LE did not seize the “diary.” Didn’t Brad Conway state that the diary was in the possession of Baez?

I read that A11 News article, too- it reads like typical tabloid fare to me, with its unnamed sources. Not that they are never legitimate- I always thought that the Pros. in the OJ case should have used the witness who claimed to have almost been hit by him that night (as he was leaving the scene), whether she made a buck from a tab or not. Let the jury decide the significance. Last night I looked through a number of the bigger Caylee Anthony listings of docs, depos, taped, audio, etc., etc. and can’t find this listed- just the stuff we’ve all seen. There must be something BIG that still eludes us until closer to the trial; just the fact that this became DP a second time indicates that, I think…

The June 21 diary page was photographed and released without comment among 500 pages of discovery on February 18, 2009. The diary is not on any evidence list of items removed from the Anthony house because the diary wasn’t taken into evidence. Brad Conway told Larry King last May that the diary is in his office and the state or defense could take it any time for testing, but they don’t want it.

Had OCSO believed that entry had been written in 2008, the entire diary, it never would have been left behind; it would have been taken into evidence and promptly sent to a lab for forensic tests, especially ink-dating and fingerprinting. It wasn’t, so there must have been entries after the photographed June 21 entry that indicated the entry in question was made prior to 2008.

IMO, OCSO photographed that page for documentation of Casey’s general mindset (“the end justifies the means”, not because it has any direct relevance to the case.

The inside cover of the journal appears to have been written in the same red ink as the June 21 entry, and the date on the inside cover is 2003. The entry itself is so vague, it could pertain to many events in Casey’s life from 2003-2008. Also, the handwriting in the June 21 entry is quite different from the handwriting in Casey’s July 16, 2008 OCSO statement. The handwriting is similar enough in the two documents that both appear to have been written by Casey, but the formation of specific letters (like “w” is very different between the diary entry and OCSO statement, indicating to me that Casey did not write them a mere 25 days apart but rather after a much longer period of time in which her handwriting style had evolved (as it does from age 17 to age 22).

Karen C. said: { Feb 22, 2010 – 01:02:40 }
I read that A11 News article, too- it reads like typical tabloid fare to me, with its unnamed sources. Not that they are never legitimate-

*****

I don’t see any evidence of legitimacy on that site. The unnamed sources, disclaimer about the site being a forum for gossip as well as factual news, and heavy advertising make it too suspect IMO.

I knew this sounded familiar. The source for that website was none other than The National Enquirer. ( Although they are generally wrong, oddly they may be up for a Pulitzer Prize on the John Edwards scoop)

http://www.nationalenquirer.com/casey_anthony_diary_confessions/celebrity/66229

CASEY ANTHONY’S DAMNING DIARY CONFESSIONS – Celebrity News …
Feb 19, 2009 … Casey Anthony’s private diary has been made public and her shocking confessions may help convict her of murdering daughter Caylee. …
http://www.nationalenquirer.com/casey_anthony_diary…/66229 – Cached – Similar
CASEY ANTHONY CONFESSIONS

Casey Anthony’s private diary has been made public and her shocking confessions may help convict her of murdering daughter Caylee. 

”I have no regrets, just a bit worried,” alleged baby killer Casey wrote in a journal entry dated just 5 days after Caylee went missing. 

According to documents released Wednesday by the Florida State’s Attorney office, Casey also wrote, “I completely trust my own judgment I know that I made the right decision. I just hope that the end justifies the means. 

”This is the happiest that I have been in a very long time.” 

Casey, who is awaiting a trial, is charged with first-degree murder in 2-year-old Caylee’s death but has pleaded not guilty.

CASEY ANTHONY MURDER DIARY REVEALED – Celebrity News | Gossip …
Mar 24, 2009 … CASEY ANTHONY MURDER DIARY “CONFESSION” REVEALED! … In …
http://www.nationalenquirer.com/casey_anthony…anthony…diary…/66392

Casey Anthony has “confessed” to killing her daughter Caylee, a source has exclusively told The ENQUIRER.

In a search of Casey’s home, cops found a shocking “diary of death” in which the murder-mom basically admits to killing her angel-faced daughter, sources have told The ENQUIRER.

And the detailed handwritten diary written by Casey in the days immediately before and after the toddler’s death is so damning that prosecutors could reconsider seeking the death penalty, sources told The ENQUIRER.

In the diary, sources tell The ENQUIRER, twisted Casey spelled out her evil intentions and said she planned to murder her daughter as a “mercy killing” to keep her out of the hands of her mother, Cindy. Police believe the night before Caylee died, Casey and her mother had a vicious fight, and Cindy swore that she would take the little girl away from Casey for good.

“Casey snapped,” a source told The ENQUIRER. “In her sick mind, she became convinced that Caylee would be better off dead, in heaven, than in the hands of her mother.”

Authorities recently released 650 pages of evidence, including one page of a diary in which Casey wrote: “I have no regrets, just a bit worried. I just want for everything to work out okay. I completely trust my own judgment. I know that I made the right decision.”

The diary contains other shocking details, including notes Casey had written about chloroform and the deadliness of pesticides, says the source. In it, she also refers to Caylee as “the little snot” and revealed that she killed Caylee because she was “taking care of something” and “punishing someone,” meaning Cindy, divulged the source.

“Police are firmly convinced that Caylee’s death was not an accident, but an intentional murder. The reason they are so sure is this diary, in which Casey basically admits she killed her daughter,” said the source. “I think this diary is the ultimate smoking gun – dead bang physical evidence that proves beyond a doubt that Casey is guilty.”

Cops found the diary when they searched the Anthonys’ Orlando home shortly after Caylee’s body was discovered nearby in a wooded area in December, but have been trying to keep its existence under wraps, said the source.  It will be presented as evidence at Casey’s trial, now scheduled for Oct. 12, according to sources close to the investigation.

I just read part of the timeline and discovery pages. It says based on cell phone pings Casey was at Tony’s all day June 21st. I thought the diary was found in Casey’s closet? When would she have written in it?

Is it at all possible that there are two distinct journals or diaries, then? If one is sitting in Conway’s office…there were pages ripped out of the one we’re “familiar” with, IIRC. Were they able to recover those, perhaps? Say if Cindy did a little editing on her own and they were found by LE later… all just spec admittedly…

Me, I LOVE the fact they’re up for a reward- when they do good work, they should be considered same as any other publication. I know, it’s hard to keep from snickering! I do think their standards went up (slightly) after the Carol Burnett lawsuit (and so many others), and that’s a good thing.

I still sent an email to the sheriff’s office about my discovery and the fact that they may want ot subject that diary to a few tests – no harm, no foul. 8O

I just posted osmething kind of related to the war on drugs psuedo-conversation that we had on this thread this morning. I posted it on the miscellany thread if any one is interested. It is interesting….

I’m not sure what makes me think this, but I wonder if Hoover didn’t rip out the missing pages out of the diary and provide them to LE. In one of the tapes with Dominic Casey they questioned him on who sent Hoover to the house on Dec. 11th post LE search warrant to lock up the house. Was he authorized to be there? Did he have Cindy and George Anthony’s authorization? Who asked him to go there? I can’t remember the details, but the questions about Jim Hoover being in the house that night were very specific confirming that he was authorized to be there.

I just find it hard to believe that this confession would be found in the Anthony home after Caylee’s body was discovered………Cindy, George , & Lee would have already taken the house apart, early on in the case, looking & getting rid of anything that might incriminate Casey.

NosyParker, I believe Hoover was sent to lock up house because he was not staying at the hotel. So, he did so on his way home. Also, I believe if there had been such a confession in the house, it would have been removed & destroyed long ago by Anthonys. Conway would certainly have no reason for keeping it……except maybe if when all is over, the Anythonys & Conway thought it would bring some wealth to them. JMO

Actually Hoover was staying at the hotel along with Dominic Casey. In the Morgan depo he made it very clear that yes, he stayed at this fancy hotel but it wasn’t the first time and he wasn’t all that impressed. I mean really unless you’re a hillbilly, who hasn’t stayed at a 4 or 5 star hotel at some point in their life? It’s likely unrelated, but I just thought that a lot of attention was paid verifying that Jim Hoover was authorized to be in the house after LE left.

» NosyParker said: { Feb 22, 2010 – 04:02:29 }

Nosy

I thought only Mallory was at the house on that day?

I read up thread that Conway offered a viewing of the diary to both prosecution and defense. No one took him up on this offer? That’s odd.

It does appear as though LE did not take the diary. Which is stunning. You’d think it would warrant at least some examination by experts, handwriting, age of ink, etc. You can’t tell much at a cursory glance or by taking a photocopy.

Makes no sense.

Of course I don’t believe one word out of Conway’s mouth so maybe there’s more going on with this.

I mean, this is a diary written by the hand of an accused baby murderer.

No examination????

Why????

Nauseated said: { Feb 22, 2010 – 06:02:59 }
I read up thread that Conway offered a viewing of the diary to both prosecution and defense. No one took him up on this offer? That’s odd.

******

No, I wrote that he offered the entire diary to either side for testing. Neither side wanted the book for testing.

OCSO had already viewed the diary because they took a picture of the inside cover and the June 21 entry when they served a search warrant on the house in December 2008 after the remains were found. Since OCSO only took a photo but left the book behind at the Anthony house, they had reason to know that June 21 entry was not written in 2008 but in some earlier year.

We have stairs.

Not finished out stairs, but functional stairs. And they are perfect. I had to design these stringers blind. Without being able to measure the true “offness” of the rebuilt side part of the house, and without being able to get a true elevation measure for the second floor (because we decided early on we wouldn’t tear out the old stairs until the stringers were cut so we minimized “no stairs” time). We did-perfect! Hubby is so awesome.

They fit in like a new house. We are very very proud parents of a new staircase right now.

jennyb said: { Feb 22, 2010 – 07:02:58 }
I mean, this is a diary written by the hand of an accused baby murderer.

No examination????

Why????

*****

Probably because the entries that followed the photographed June 21 entry clearly showed that the June 21 entry was not written in 2008 but in some year between 2003 and 2007.

Maura, thanks. I have real faith in OSCO and so don’t doubt their judgment. I guess bottom line there should be value even if it’s the study of the psychological makeup of a baby-killer — if nothing else.

So I’m still not 100% convinced there isn’t more to it, mainly because Conway is such a liar-pants.

But yes, what you say makes sense. Natch.

Stairs are most excellent things. Congrats Val!

OSCO knew by that time the Anthonys are capable of manipulating evidence. I can’t imagine they’d take anything (LE) at face value unless the item was examined by experts.

I dunno. They declined to have the vacuums examined by the FBI (even though the offer was made) so obviously there’s a heck of a lot we don’t know.

» Valhall said: { Feb 22, 2010 – 06:02:09 }

LOL…true points, William, though I can’t seem to find a place to connect my stairs to Casey Anthony.

*keeps looking*

Don’t you remember, Val, that Casey dropped Caylee off at the STAIRS at Sawgrass?! There’s your connection.

Oh, Good!! A new stairway to heaven… or at least to Hinky meter, maybe the same thing….

Congrats, Val and Hubby!

William ~ kudos on sending the email! You never know…a little detail (s) can be worth a lot. Time will tell.

Val ~ congrats. Homemade stairs! Quite impressive.

jennyb said: { Feb 22, 2010 – 07:02:47 }
OSCO knew by that time the Anthonys are capable of manipulating evidence. I can’t imagine they’d take anything (LE) at face value unless the item was examined by experts.

I dunno. They declined to have the vacuums examined by the FBI (even though the offer was made) so obviously there’s a heck of a lot we don’t know.

******

When OCSO served the home search warrants in December 2008, they also found a parenting book in Casey’s room bookmarked to a page on managing tantrums. They photographed the page for documentation, but left the book behind, just as they did with the diary entry for June 21.

I have to say I do not believe Casey (dim though I believe she is) would be stupid enough to write out a confession and murder methodology in a personal diary and leave it around for LE to find. Nor do I believe Cindy would leave it around for LE to find, and Cindy surely went through all Casey’s belongings when Casey was jailed from July 16 through August 21. Cindy was in full “clue” mode as early as July 21, and if she thought there was something in that diary (because the entry is quite vague about the events and decisions Casey is referring to in that June 21 entry), I believe she would have given it to Baez along with the Universal lanyard she found in a bedroom drawer. I believe Baez (dim though I believe he is) would not have failed to take the diary himself for security if he believed it held incriminating evidence against his client.

It’s possible Brad Conway was lying to Larry King about having the diary in his office, but I don’t believe there is any doubt that OCSO found it, read it, photographed it, and left it behind at the Anthony house. It does make sense to me that Cindy would have seen a photo of the Jun 21 entry in the February 2009 discovery or seen a news broadcast about it and taken the diary to Conway for his opinion.

Val,

I couldn’t sign off without saying, YOU ARE AMAZING WOMAN!!! Stairs? You and Mr. Hall! (er) You make grandbabies and stairways too! Whoa!

..hoover states in his morgan/zenaida depo :
http://www.docstoc.com/docs/7141587/Private-Investigator-James-Hoover-Interview

..(page 78 on..)

..that he was sent from the ritz back to the house, to “lock up” after LE finished their search ( the night of dec. 11th.)

..mallory was in and out daily to feed cindy’s dogs while she and george were away doing LK in california.

Val, why did you need stringers? Why couldn’t you just bring the run to the edge of the stairwell? Stringers are just a pain when finishing.

You still have to have stringers, Karen, whether you use the second floor as the last step or bring the stringers flush with the second floor. You have to have the stringers to support the treads. In essence, the stringers ARE the stairs and the finish out is just what closes it in so you can walk safely on it.

We hung our stringers so that they were one step below the top floor.

Good job, Val! Good job, Val’s husband! Can we see pics, please — O please?

Maura,

Would I be correct to assume that the diary, for it’s lack of specifics, isn’t evidentiary anyway? But if the paper could be dated, as well as the marker with which Casey wrote, and was found to be recently manufactured, would it then be evidentiary, or would it be tossed for no direct reference to Caylee?

Willow

In the local news this AM – the Anthonys may be losing their home:

http://www.clickorlando.com/news/22640223/detail.html

They know that they will not need a home most likely in the not too distant future. The state will provide for all of their basic needs….

Good morning everyone and especially people who build staircases! Kudos! What a nice thing to have when your house has more than one floor, lol!

I just read Renee’s link. I take no schadenfreude with the Antnony’s misfortune. I’m not sure, if the same circumstances had occurred at that location to me or my family, that I would even want to remain in that house anyway. Does anyone know if the Millsteads still live there, if so, it makes we wonder how much they, and Lee, have contributed? What was it, like $ 700- $ 800 a month in mortgage payments? That is nothing in the Northeast.

It was just under $800.00 a month in payments. Of course, the problem is that they are unemployable at present (Cindy and George) and Lee is only employable in low paying jobs at present for the same reason. I do not take pleasure from their misfortune either. I think that they brought this misfortune on themselves by how they reacted to the Caylee situation from the very start.

Remember, the crowds were originally sempathetic and they originally had vast community support. Only after they tarted mishandling things so badly did things go south on them and they became pariahs…

tarted/started

sempathetic/sympathetic

I will certainly win no spelling bees this AM!!! 8O

I think I should start calling you “DYNAMO VAL”. I don’t know how you write up all these articles, work, and then attend to staircase building activities in the evening.

Maybe you can post a pic when you guys are done so we can see your handy work. If not, okay too.

William Hill,

Good morning!!!
I am not sorry for the Anthony’s… the Anthony’s brought this upon themselves and they might be playing the sympathy game knowing that there is a good samaritan out there that will pay for their mortgage. Zenaida had problems too, she couldn’t find a job and the A’s didn’t care a bit so no sympathy from me. From my understanding LA is living with his parents, why isn’t he helping with the mortgage? It’s not the first time it happens to them, so now they have an excuse.
I wouldn’t like to live in the same house that Caylee might have been murdered but Cindy is sick and keep Caylee’s obituary on display.
I may sound heartless but the Anthony’s didn’t do anything to gather sympathy from me. This is the way I see it.

I have no sympathy for these ingrates!!! Cindy is a registered nurse and could find a job in a hearbeat. George i really don’t think he has contributed much to this family for years, so he’s really just a loser. Instead of going on cruises, getting tattoos, ear peircings, etc. maybe they should of paid their mortgage. OOPS!! My bad, they were probably hoping other people would do that for them. i am a true beleiver in what goes around comes around, and looks like it’s coming around. Hopefully they will slink on back to Ohio, even though i wish no ill will on the good folks of Ohio.

Yes please leave us in Ohio alone, thanks anyway. lol
Another weblog suggested that it is not uncommon in Florida and other places right now to simply walk away from mortgages that are more than the house is worth. They may have 2nd and 3rd mortgages from a couple of years ago when housing prices were much higher. This lack of personal responsibility is considered fiscally smart in this day and age and suggested on financial tv shows frequently.

I doubt they would be able to get much if they sold or if they even can sell. Murder homes are notorius for standing empty for decades. Although Caylee may not have been killed at the home, think of the evil karma in that place. Would you buy it?

Nobody gets “surprised” by foreclosure. They simply chose not to pay it. They have Conway who is their counsel 24/7, this has to be part of a bigger scheme. The poor kc is indigent and so are we, it’s the “see we didn’t recieve lots of pic and book money” pity us, help us…..BS

» MJ said: { Feb 23, 2010 – 10:02:09 } it’s the “see we didn’t recieve lots of pic and book money” pity us, help us…..BS

MJ

That is an out and out lie. Cindy swore, under oath, that she did receive payment from at least one network.

WSH ~ however they end up spinning this latest development, it will be a total distortion of the truth. Tax time is upon them, kc’s defense is gearing up for her indigent status…should be interesting

No sympathy from me either. They’re just waiting for another handout. Shame on them.

Here is the A’s foreclosure document:
http://www.wftv.com/pdf/22644089/detail.html

Zenaida’s witness list:
http://www.wftv.com/pdf/22644050/detail.html

Uh oh. I’ve been ranting for 20 minutes on the wrong thread about this. 8O

I just found this on WS. As of today, it says balance due: 0. Does that mean it was paid by the insurance co., or BOA paid it?

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?s=1e69753279b55191b93d44bd81ae8757&t=96332

My Orange Clerk Records: Civil Case Foreclosure County Records For GA & CA!

Register of ActionsCase No. 2010-CA-004872-O
BANK OF AMERICA NA vs. ANTHONY, CYNTHIA Met al.

Case Type: CA – Homestead Residential Foreclosure Btwn $50,001-$249,999
Date Filed: 02/22/2010
Location: Div 37
Judicial Officer: O’Kane, Julie H
Uniform Case Number: 482010CA004872A001OX
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Party Information
Defendant—ANTHONY, CYNTHIA M

Defendant—ANTHONY, GEORGE A—-Also known as ANTHONY, GEORGE

Defendant—CHICKASAW OAKS PHASE THREE HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATION INC

Defendant—STATE OF FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE

Defendant—UNITED GUARANTY RESIDENTIAL INSURACE COMPANY OF NORTH CAROLAINA

Defendant—UNKNOWN PARTIES IN POSSESSION 1

Defendant—UNKNOWN PARTIES IN POSSESSION 2

Plaintiff—BANK OF AMERICA NA

Lead Attorneys:
KENEFIC, MEGHAN A., Esquir—-Retained
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Events & Orders of the Court
02/22/2010—Lis Pendens

02/22/2010—Complaint

02/22/2010—Value of Real Property/Mortgage Foreclosure Claim Form

02/22/2010—Civil Cover Sheet
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Financial Information

Plaintiff BANK OF AMERICA NA
Total Financial Assessment—1,116.50
Total Payments and Credits—1,116.50
Balance Due as of 02/23/2010—0.00

02/22/2010—Transaction Assessment—910.00

02/22/2010—Transaction Assessment—70.00

02/22/2010—Counter Payment—Receipt # CV-2010-16171—KENEFIC, MEGHAN A., Esquire—(982.50)

02/22/2010—Transaction Assessment—30.00

02/22/2010—Counter Payment—Receipt # CV-2010-16197—customer—(30.00)

02/23/2010—Transaction Assessment—32.00

02/23/2010—Counter Payment—Receipt # CV-2010-16290—Bianca M. Prieto—(32.00)

02/23/2010—Transaction Assessment—32.00

02/23/2010—Counter Payment—Receipt # CV-2010-16291—customer—(32.00)

02/23/2010—Transaction Assessment—40.00

02/23/2010—Counter Payment—Receipt # CV-2010-16327—kathy—(40.00)
__________________

Jennyb lol lol I know! I have to troll around trying to figure out where everybody is hanging!

Hee hee MJ. It’s just so challenging!

I guess maybe the balance is zero because the bank took back ownership?

This sick family “A’s” are just fishing for an interview to pay for their mortgage. Maybe they ran out of Caylee’s photos. JB might have many photos in his office. Despicable people.

FRG they are not only despicable but they are cunning. Sneaky with no scruples and not an iota of responsibility. Conway has to be aware of their decisions or even advising them.Caylee’s murder has been the stepping stone for all of their plots and deceitful plans since the day she was reported gone. Shameful doesn;t even begin to cover it.

I guess that I will have to go back and look at my post again. I don’t think that I said anything about feeling sorry for them. 8O

As for Cindy being a Nurse and being able to get plenty of work – NOT ON YOUR LIFE! It is because she is a nurse that she can’t get any work. Do you know anyone who would WANT nurse Cindy tending to them NOW? I doubt it!!!

Same for George and security work. Think anyone wants George working for them now? Especially with so many people angry at them 24/7? What business would want that?

In the end, they have harmed themselves by courting all of that publicity that they did. How long it will haunt them depends on how many additional things they do which garners publicity and pisses people off even more.

William, I agree it might be difficult for them to find fantastic jobs in their fields, although I think Cindy could find something — there is a nursing shortage. It might not be the greatest job but she could find some little hole in the wall that would take her. George… pffft.

But the fact is there are millions of people in this country in the process of switching careers. Their companies have gone belly up and they have to take what they can get at another place, in another job.

I’m basically agreeing, with just a tiny caveat.

WSH, that’s what I’m thinking too. It’s a new deal with a current 0 balance. Probably a formality.

Obviously they don’t want jobs. I know there’s been back and forth on this point, but I believe Cindy is on two-year disability payments. I’ve read it in reputable reports. Anyway, if true, she filed early on. She was not planning to work… probably ever again.

William Hill,

Your reasoning is good as usual. I don’t think you said you were sorry for the A’s.
Maybe soon the Anthony’s will be heading to another interview and then just like magic their mortgage will be paid off. That would be insulting!!!!
How come the A’s don’t pay their mortgage for 9 months and they don’t know that their home will be in foreclosure? Are they delusional now? They just live in lala land.

Thanks Jennyb

I was beginning to think that everyone was ignoring me because my question was so stupid, and that it was an alternative to hitting me over the head with a 2×4, lol!

Still…it probably was.

I think that no health care setting could afford to hire Cindy right now – their insurance company would balk at it. Same for George. With so many people currently looking for work why would htey want someone with so much baggage? I do not see it happening….

Insurance companies are important for almost any kind of a business. The As bring too much liability with them at present for any insurer to want them around. I am just saying….

William, if they’re a liability they’ve made themselves that consciously. They could have been a great asset to any company, heightened kudos for compassionate business practice, if they hadn’t purposely made themselves anathema to every man and beast.

I still think they could find work though.

We’ll never know because no matter what city they live in… they won’t ever look for jobs again. They could move to Borneo and they still won’t work. It’s like the “We can’t visit Casey because we don’t want to be recorded” in my mind. Same thing… “We can’t work because of the publicity.” I ain’t buyin’.

Last thought: This foreclosure is a practical business decision. I think they have plenty of money stashed. If they don’t they will find a way to live on the public dole forever.

WSH – I’ve never heard you say anything stupid! Unless I’m too stupid to notice. 8)

William Hill,
Conway said they will be working with the bank to save the house, they haven’t paid for their mortgage for 8 months… how does it work?
P.S. Isn’t that funny for a family that doesn’t have a job or money have a lawyer.

Lee went back to work in September 2008 IIRC. He said his company (Click & Park) gave him a leave of a couple of months, but then he went back to his old job full time.

He also said he’s been writing a check for $1,000 every month to his parents since he moved back to Hopespring Drive in January 2009, and the reason he moved back in was to help them out financially.

William – I think Lee has a pretty good job. He travels a lot because he is a Click & Park case manager for a sports team (the Georgia Bulldogs IIRC), and also works on major sporting events like the Super Bowl (arranging transportation for the players and staff and also arranging transportation issues (shuttle buses, parking) for large sporting events. In other words, he’s not flipping burgers.

Maura,

Hello!!!
Exactly!!! I read that Lee had moved back with his parents to help them so, what’s going on now? Shouldn’t mortgage payment be at the top of the A’s list?

So maybe they have purposely tied everything up in the nonprofit. Casey gets her indigent status, and the Anthonys have nothing on paper in the event of a civil suit?

Unless the Anthonys just made a business decision to ‘walk away’ as you all have said.

Will the Anthony’s be able to hide their assets, if they have any??? We know Zenaida’s trial is coming soon and maybe they are up to something.

As George stated in a depo…”we gave the house back to the bank…” Well, that’s one way of looking at it. They made the decision to let their property go into foreclosure, once in Ohio and now in Florida. They are not all that uncomfortable with defaulting on a loan or two or three. I have to wonder if they are making certain that they have no real assets before the upcoming trials . I also wonder if the huge witness list that ZG filed isn’t a bit intimidating to the A’s. Sooner or later they must realize tht they just ain’t that smart.

Cindy could find work in almost any avenue of Healthcare. I know that Nursing Administrators are having a difficult time filling prositions (my daughter is a recruiter for a National HC Org.) And rent-a-cop places aren’t THAT discerning about who they hire — really. However, I believe that G&C must maintain their disabled status in order to maneuver their roles as witnesses in the upcoming trials, thus the value of being disabled – but they better be very careful about opening too many doors by crying “poor me.”

I could foresee a lot of fall out from this case for C&G if they aren’t careful. I think they could have IRS problems due, in large part to their so-called foundation. There could be insurance fraud from the disability claims and quite possibly there could be obstruction or perjury charges on their horizons. This is conjecture here and has no factual basis that I am aware of.

Maura:

Nah, nah, nah you missed me!

Oh, maybe not. Okay. You got me again. I do not get why he would be trying to ingratiate himself with a PI since he makes a good living already. I guess it could have just been his dream to be a PI someday. Not sure that I understand – then again that is true of a lot of things concerning the As.

I thought he had left his job for good. Not sure what gave me that impression, but….

Let’s face it, they could sit on their butts all day in telemarketing jobs, away from the public eye (like anyone gives a hoot about them anymore) if they were really serious about finding work. George is only a few years away from claiming early Social Security benefits at 62.

I wonder how Bank of America feels about the way this is being publicized. They’re probably very interested to hear their company doesn’t send out one notice to potential foreclosees. They just come along one day like the big bad wolf and serve papers with no advance notice. Uh huh.

DO NOT GET ME STARTED about Boa! Their initials suit them well!!! Do a search on the numbers of people that they have screwed. You may be surprised. There were a whole bunch of people who they sent letters to and told them that they could skip several payments, then they turned around and filed foreclosure on them, IIRC!!!

William, I’m sure BOA is the pits but still… are you saying they wouldn’t send out one warning notice of late payment due before they drop the hammer? Hard to imagine. These are people who have been in financial trouble before. They know the consequences of not paying a mortgage for 8 months.

I’m sure the bank sends out a nice friendly reminder (lol) when you miss payments.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2009/10/31/1309390/bank-of-america-faces-complaints.html

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&q=BofA+complaints&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&fp=c26c79a56c95bda8

William, I take your word on it. The fact remains even my cat knows if I don’t pay the rent we’re both out on the street. Bottom line, they probably figured BOA wouldn’t dare go after them because they’re so famous and *entitled* and all that.

I say… you go! BOA. You didn’t back down from these creeps.

Actually, I have no problems with BofA personally. I have no problems with them foreclosing on the As either. I do have problems with BofA being bailed out using tax payer funds and then turning around and screwing every person that they can to make more money. They have went out on a campaign of terrorizing customers in the past thre years or so. I have a problem with that.

The As are not in the same class as the people that I get upset with BofA about. As a matter of fact, the As have no class at all it appears to me!

went/gone

I hope BOA stays on their case. Their every financial step (or mis-step) should be scrutinized. They should not be allowed to get away with this.

This ‘disability’ of Cindy’s is laughable. Looks more like fraud to me.

George is just a lazy wuss.

This snip is from Wesh’s article:
“The process should take between eight months and a year”.
Wow, I didn’t know that the mortgage companies were so complacent. It’s been 8 months the A’s haven’t paid their mortgage and plus 1 year to negotiate it??? I didn’t know it.

They say home is where the heart is…But the house of heart of stickers doesn’t apply to this cliche’. I feel nothing but anger yet for these people. They should have let the people keep the memorial at Surburban Drive for Caylee. No matter where they go Cindy as a nurse is a scarey thought, if she is so willing to lie and cover up a murder I don’t believe any medical professional would hire her. George as a security anything can’t be trusted everyone saw how far he went to cover up a murder so there isn’t any trust in him AT ALL. Employers for these two would always be wondering what they are covering up and whose side they are on.

They couldn’t even find a bridge to live under because so many people hate them and their behavior. Maybe Conway will hire them as live-in nurse and on sight security?

jennyb said: { Feb 23, 2010 – 01:02:18 }
William, I’m sure BOA is the pits but still… are you saying they wouldn’t send out one warning notice of late payment due before they drop the hammer? Hard to imagine. These are people who have been in financial trouble before. They know the consequences of not paying a mortgage for 8 months.

I’m sure the bank sends out a nice friendly reminder (lol) when you miss payments.

*****

If you look at their landline records for their June 15-July 4, 2008 monthly statement (released in November 2008, you’ll see that they received 232 incoming calls on that line, and I would conservatively estimate that 80% of those calls were from collection agents. The calls were virtually always allowed to go into voicemail.

When they stopped paying the mortgage a year later (the note due on June 1, 2009 and all subsequent notes have not been paid), they no doubt got even more collection calls in addition to written reminders from the bank.

Thanks Maura.

A few days ago I read a comment on another site (and I read so many I can’t recall where or I’d give proper credit) that said (to the effect) “…the Anthony’s don’t even have crack to blame for their problems…”

This from a WFTV link:

“Cindy is on disability from her nursing job and George has been out of work almost since Casey’s first arrest. Their son Lee’s lawyer said Lee moved in with them last year to help them pay their bills, BUT RIGHT AFTER THAT IS WHEN THEY STOPPED MAKING MORTGAGE PAYMENTS and Eyewitness News has heard he’s moved out.”

Lee gave them $1000 a month but at the time he started the payments they stopped paying their mortgage? Something’s hinky.

Link: http://www.wftv.com/news/22642148/detail.html

Either Lee wasn’t really paying (just a PR move to prove his parents were really broke and not con-artists) OR Lee was paying and he got punked. By his own mom and dad? Whodathunkit.

Jennyb,

Don’t you just think the Anthony’s are up to something? Civil trial is coming up soon and maybe they need to keep their assets in somebody else’s name. It means nothing to me when Conway says the A’s are not making money because it is hard to believe.

http://www.cfnews13.com/News/Local/2010/2/23/foreclosure_papers_filed_on_anthony_home.html
“Conway said after that, he plans to work up a response and work with the bank so the family doesn’t lose their home.

He also said this should send a clear message to people that the Anthonys were not making money for TV appearances.”

Hey FRG, agree with you.

I believe two things. That the Anthonys are always planning and scheming something, they always have an angle -and that their attorney is a liar pants.

FRG or anyone, I read on another site today, can’t remember which one though, that the Milsteads were in the same position for over $500,000 for their house and ended up buying it back from the bank for their foundation. Do you think this is what Mr. Conway is talking about. I would certainly not put it out of the scope of reality for these people. Anyone….

Meanwhile, Casey sits in her ‘room’ day after day, munching away on those hot peanuts…

Good grief. Their house will never sell. They just sold it for what it’s worth to the bank. Poor bank. This was a smart and great financial move for them. They are “up” nearly eight grand. They are savvy people and know exactly what they are doing. It’s not honest or right, but whatever. If they wanted to keep the house, they would have paid the mortgage. Obviously, they want to move. What better way to sell an unsellable house. They will not qualify for a mortgage with a foreclosure and no employment, so it is obvious to me that they have enough cash to buy a new home. I’m not sure how this works though. Is there a housing committee that monitors this? I don’t even care about their cruise or their body bling. All of that just makes this so much more dishonest and diplorable. Why do they want us to dislike (hate) them sooooo much?

It doesn’t work that way at all. They are still going to owe the bank the difference between what they borrowed and what the bank is eventually able to sell the property for. There is no “walking away” involved. If they have money in a bank somewhere then the bank will go to court and have the account frozen until this debt is resolved. The only way to “walk away” is if you can file bankruptcy and that is tougher to do these days.

It works the same way that a car repossession does. The bank gets the car and sells it, then you still owe the difference.

Oh, okay Mr. Hill. So would they have an auction type thing to sell the home? The home is (I think) worth about 120 grand. So the bank (or whatever firm they have) auctions it of? Say it sells for 80 grand, the Ant’s are still liable for the other 40 grand? Is that what you mean?

Yes. They still owe the principal back to the bank – so if they borrowed 120000.00 and they have paid say 4000.00 in principal through their mortgage and it sells for 80000.00 then they owe the bank an additional 36000.00.

The bank could either choose to hold the asset for now, try to sell it, or auction it off. Most of the time they auction it off if they have any chance of collecting from the original borrower for the difference. In this market, it is hard to guess what they would do since the housing market is so depressed at the moment.

IF they think that the As might come into more money by a book deal or whatever, then they will simply sell it for whatever they can get and wiat to sue them for the rest once they make the money from the book deal or whatever. Not that I think they have any such book deal – this is simply an example.

wiat/wait

Okay, I understand now. Thanks Mr. Hill. They can not walk away unless it sells for over or on the owing price. Would you want to buy that house? I wouldn’t.

No. I would not want to buy it and most people will not want to buy it for a long time.

William Hill,

Conway said he will be negotiating the A’s home… Well, how will BC do this if the A’s don’t have a job?

Maybe G + C are trying to demonstrate legal “indigence” so that the state, the taxpayers,
will pick up the tab for all those very expensive forensics + psych witnesses?

Y’know…they should have been a lot nicer to Leonard Padilla. I’ll bet he would have
bailed them out – just like he is his new friends the Croslin family!

Re: the marketability of the Anthony home…eventually a very non-sentimental
opportunistic person will buy it, spend a few months selling media soundbites
on their experiences and video footage – then pay off the home completely
in a few months and have the last laugh. Then remodel.

“Most Haunted” Monica? I would never want to step foot in that house.

I have seen no indications that either George or Cindy have accepted any form of responsibility for Casey’s legal bills. Casey is already indigent. The rest of the As could be millionaires and it would not effect Casey’s status as an indigent. She is past her majority so there is no financial responsibility for her any longer as far as George and Cindy goes.

I want to know what’s Conway getting out of this round the clock representation of them? There HAS to be monetary incentive at a future date. Nobody would put up with them as clients out of the goodness of their heart would they? He devotes huge billable hours to their cause, he appears with them at nearly every single function, now he’s involving himself in affairs that has zip to do with the ZG case or the murder case. What gives?

Not that i’m any gauge to measure by but I would never retain him for anything , the A’s are so distasteful and shystery I hold Conway guilty just by association. That he promotes their agenda and repeats their lies, thereby giving the illusion of authority, puts him on shaky ground as far as ethical behavior IMO.

All of the money that everyone keeps saying G +C got through donations could have been gong to attorneys for them and for Casey right along. They may have siphoned off some and went on cruise and tatooing expeditions, but the lion’s share may have always gone to attorneys or legal funds.

It would not surprise me if this turned out to be true.

William Hill,

Morning!!! Yes, it could be true that their decision is to pay for KC’s lawyers, after all, all they make are bad decisions, one after another. If this is the case it shows and reinforce how irresponsible they are. In their sick and guilty mind they are doing their best to KC but this is far from the truth. A visit in the jail would show their love and support more than hiring lawyers they can’t afford. How DELUSIONAL can you be to act in such an irresponsible way? But they are the Anthony’s and it seems to me they think they are above the laws. IMHO

Good morning William

I agree. I think that they may have been bankrolling Casey’s defense, in part. They may also have other debt on credit cards, etc.

On the other hand, they may have accepted payment for images (ahem) through the nonprofit, as opposed to receiving payment directly. Only they know. That would also have benefited whatever media paid them, if the case, because that payment could be seen as a tax deduction, in a sense.

I read, maybe on WFTV, that payments stopped right around the time that Lee moved back home, which is curious since he said he was helping with expenses. But then they also reported that he has moved out, and they don’t know when. So perhaps he moved shortly thereafter and didn’t contribute all that much.

Morning? It is morning again? Where does the time go?

Morning all.

I thought that I read somewhere that Lee moved in and then right back out because of control issues with Cindy or something like that? At any rate, I am pretty sure that he was not there much over a month before things blew up and he couldn’t take it.

Maybe not, but I could swear that I saw that somewhere….

I am curious about how the indigent status would work. Supposedly Casey had no money to begin with. But Baez had a contract with Casey , not the Anthonys, they didn’t hire him. So if they were paying his fee, and then ran out of cash, since the contract wasn’t their obligation to begin with, and Casey never had money to begin with, then how do they change her status at this point, if indeed that is what they are going to be doing?

I imagine that Casey, herself, was initially selling images of Caylee? I guess that avenue of income has dried up? (If it were done, there were rumors, but nothing substantiated.)

If you take on a client that is broke to begin with, how do you later claim that she has no money is my question?

I take it you mean from the standpoint of asking the court to supplement the cash flow for the defense funding? It is my understanding that you can always make the request based on the financial standing of the client. It is not like the state is going to cough up much money anyway. I have heard that these kinds of fees are always paltry and do not cover much of any expenses incurred by the legal teams.

I think that the most benefit that a lawyer gets is through tax relief – it acts kind of like a donation for tax purposes or something. Silver can undoubtedly answer this better than I can.

Pro-bono has some benefits from a tax standpoint though, I am pretty sure….

I wonder, if they do embark on the indigent status, does it become public where funds came from in the first place. I would think that the defendant would have to lay out all of their financial cards to get approval.

William – I have always believed the amount of money the A’s received through donations to be exaggerated by some bloggers. I tend to believe that back when the bulk donations were being sent it was more to TES than the A family, yes Im sure they received some donations directly, but imo it probably wasnt all that much.

Of course….no telling how much they made through appearances and licensing fees…