Timer55 and the Anthony Conspiracy
The first time we, the public, can tell timer55 was possibly used as a password by either Casey or some one in the Anthony family was on May 14, 2008 at 8:49 am when the “owner” account on the Anthony desktop appears to have been changed from rico23. (Many thanks to Maura-pedia for this correction! I had to rewrite this whole first section, because it appears timer55 may have never been used on the desktop. At this time it is unknown what the password was on the “owner” account prior to May 14th, but it COULD have been timer55. Irrespective, the below article is to point out that 1. timer55 was apparently used by Casey LONG before June 16th, and 2. Cindy pushed the idea of timer55 being some code in the alleged kidnapping of Caylee when, in fact, it appears it was based on nothing but a story she was creating to replace Casey’s botched “Sawgrass apartment” story.)
According to a statement made by Lee, this most likely is not the first time Casey had used the password timer55. Of course, Lee could be lying, but we have the statement made by him in his 2009 deposition, on page 363. Lee states Jesse knew of Casey using timer55 as a password in just the first couple of days after July 16th, 2008. Lee was trying to figure out the password to Casey’s Photobucket (so he could destroy evidence there) and was talking to Jesse on the phone, who provided him the password to the account. Lee commented that Casey had a lot of weird passwords, and Lee states Jesse responded with “Yeah. You know, like timer55.”
If Lee’s statement is true that Jesse already knew of Casey using timer55 as a password, then Casey undoubtedly had used it prior to June 16th on at least one account for which she had shared the password with Jesse. Logic would have it that this would be a fairly substantial period back in time, since Casey and Jesse had not been in a relationship for some time. Since Casey and Jesse’s relationship in 2008 had diminished to phone calls and an occasional visit when Casey did not have any place else to take a shower, it’s kind of hard to come up with a reasonable scenario of how a password would be shared during the period from June 16th to July 15th.
That, of course, is based on the assumption Lee is telling the truth. And there is ample reason to doubt him, but at the same time, this type of statement can be verified in testimony in court. Since both Lee and Jesse will most likely be on the stand, we’ll sooner or later hear Jesse either confirm or deny this statement. Irrespective on when, prior to June 16th, Casey first started using timer55 as a password, due to the computer forensics we can say with certainty that the timer55 password is not a code passed to her by Zenaida Fernandez-Gonzalez as a time period to “teach her a lesson”.
The story, as it came from the Anthony camp, is that Casey told Lee, two days after being bonded out by Leonard Padilla, that Zenaida, with her sister Samantha, did the smackdown Caylee/kidnap routine in Jay Blanchard Park on June 16th and in this scenario handed Casey a script she was to follow for the next 30 days and then scurried off to change her myspace password to timer55. Changing the password, according to the Anthony legend, wasn’t just to remind Casey she had 55 days to learn a lesson, but so Zenaida could pass super secret instructions to Casey. Now, all of this works out as an OBVIOUS scenario because 55 days from June 16th is Caylee’s birthday on August 9th.
Except it’s not…55 days from June 16th is August 10th. Casey (or Cindy maybe) seems to use some New Age math that doesn’t work well for the rest of us. For instance, on the night of July 15th Casey repeatedly (even in her written statement) states she hadn’t seen Cayle in “31 days”. Not 30, 29 or 36. But then states the last time she saw Caylee was June 9th (that would be 36 days) and then later we find it was June 16th (which would be 29 days). Maybe Casey forgot the old rhyme we all learned as kids…
30 days hath September,
April, June and no wonder,
all the rest have peanut butter,
except Pasadena…
and it’s got the Rose Bowl.
Anyway, no matter what the reason for Casey being unable to count days, 55 days does not equate to Caylee’s birthday as Cindy promoted in her interview with the FBI on July 30, 2008. Let’s be clear that Casey had no problem sticking with her original story of Sawgrass apartments. The first visits with her parents, as well as Lee, happened on July 25th, nine days after she was first put in the county jail. She was still okie-dokie with the “en-seine” story of dropping her daughter with Zanny at her Sawgrass apartment. But another thing we notice in these first visits between family members and Casey is that this family is downright professional in guiding Casey into her next lie; even when she’s too dim-witted to figure out she needs to move to the next lie.
We see this in the video of the visitation with Cindy and George when Cindy asks about the picture of Caylee with the drums in the background. At first we think we are about to see Cindy force Casey to admit a lie, but no – that’s not how this family plays. Cindy asks Casey if the picture was taken in Zanny’s apartment. Cindy knows the answer because Ricardo has already been to the Anthony home and identified the picture as being taken at his apartment. Cindy knows that Casey has told her previous to that revelation that the picture was taken at Zanny’s apartment. Cindy admits this in her FBI interview on July 30th. So Cindy asks Casey the question about the picture, and Casey gets the deer in the headlights look and stammers “Zanny has drums in her apartment”. Cindy pushes again, asking if the specific picture was taken in Zanny’s apartment, and Casey just goes – believe it or not – speechless. No worries – Cindy brings in the save and says “I know whose apartment it is”. At that point Casey is off the hook and free to admit that apartment is Ricardo’s – but it’s a whole lot like Zenaida’s apartment, she adds!!!
We also see this “leading” in Lee’s visits. He asks Casey “is there any importance to your passwords?”. You can see Casey’s eyes light up with this new way of “kerflunkeling” the mess she’s in. YES! And in particular, she does NOT point to the timer55 password. It should be pointed out that at the point of this question there are at least two – possibly three – passwords that the question applies to, so at no time does Casey put more importance on the Timer55 password than at least one other (cays234).
Now, Lee states in his 2009 deposition, page 182, that the first time he learned the timer55 password was on the night of July 15th while Casey was sitting in a patrol car out in front of the Anthony home. Lee stated he felt it an urgent need to get all her passwords just before he left for Tony’s apartment to pick up the laptop. He states one of those passwords was timer55 and that Casey stated that was the password for her Yahoo and Myspace accounts. She apparently gave rico234 as the password for her user account on the desktop. We know this from a discussion between her and Lee in the July 25th visitation video. He tells her he needs her desktop account password and she states it is rico234. He responds, “I have tried that, Casey, it does not work.”
Now, it should be pointed out that in the July 25th jail visitation Lee asks for Casey’s Myspace password and she gives cays234. So apparently (one would assume) he did NOT have this password before that visitation, and it apparently is not, at the time of the visitation, timer55. But this leaves the Facebook account password as possibly timer55. Anyway, Lee swears (literally – in his deposition) he was told of timer55 that first night. During the Friday, July 25th visitation, he leads Casey to POSSIBLY indicate that the timer55 has importance. And that’s about it. Now – during that same visitation it should be pointed out that he asks specifically if there could be clues in Casey’s Myspace or Facebook accounts. Casey does not in any way bite on this suggestion. She rather apathetically responds to both as “possibly”, but truly not with any conviction. This is kind of important for statements made by Cindy just days later in her FBI interview.
Now, let’s stop here and look one more time at the exchange between Lee and Casey. He asks her if any of her passwords have meaning and her eyes light up like – ewww! good one, Bubba! and says yes. She then states the computer password doesn’t (that’s rico23 or rico234 depending on whether you want to look at what it is, or what she says it is – HA!). But then she says Myspace and Facebook passwords DO. Well, we’ve just learned that the Myspace password is cays234. The only way timer55 has become important (by anything Casey has to say about it) is if the Facebook password is timer55.
Now, Maura, and others, have speculated that the Jay Blanchard Park/Timer55 story may have been passed via Jose to Lee on the weekend (July 26th, 27th) after this visitation. There is a phone call between Casey and Lee on Saturday the 26th, and Lee is just as clueless in that phone call as he is was the day before in the visitation, so we know up to that point he hasn’t been “enlightened”. When Lee returns for a jail visit on Monday July 28th, he has been given some message by Baez from Casey, but all we can discern, to some reasonable extent, is what he does NOT know from the conversation in this visit. He does NOT know “who is involved”. He is asking about Jesse and Amy (indirectly by asking about the people who called Casey just prior to the “flurry of phone call attempts” to Cindy). This is important in two regards: 1. There has been NO specific story passed that Zenaida and Samantha did a smackdown on Casey, or there would be no reason to be asking about “who could be involved”, and 2. the message over the weekend OBVIOUSLY involves a communication from Casey that ties something happening to being JUST BEFORE the flurry of phone call attempts to Cindy. THAT is a logical conclusion. So while we can’t deny SOME message has been passed on that weekend, we can conclude with some reasonable assurance – it apparently does NOT include the specific names of who did what.
So let’s move to July 30 – Cindy and George’s interviews with the FBI. Let’s be straight that the Anthonys have stepped outside the proper chain of command in the investigation and they have requested these interviews with the FBI. The FBI are NOT formerly involved in interviewing potential suspects or witnesses in the OCSO investigation. The FBI agents agree to these meetings because the Anthonys are now bugging them. What we know leading into this interview is that Casey did the gleam in the eye *wink wink* about there being importance to SOME password. And we know she passed what appears to be some amorphous “seed” to a new story, but it still has Lee clueless to who he should be investigating.
But there’s something else we need to point out prior to these FBI interviews. Just the day before, on July 29th, Lee is interviewed by the OFFICIAL investigation team at OCSO – and he does not pass a single syllable of a potential new lead. NOTHING is uttered about Jay Blanchard Park, timer55, the Zenaida/Samantha smackdown, or any change in the original story.
So, Cindy meets with the FBI. And she is the first Anthony member to utter the Jay Blanchard Park smackdown. She assigns her knowledge of this new story to Lee, stating Casey told him this “a few days ago”. Included in this story she references the “timer55″ password. At 14:10 minutes into Part 5 of Cindy’s inane blather-fest with the FBI she first utters “timer55″. She states Casey told Lee that the password means she was given 55 days to learn a lesson from Zanny. Now let’s be clear on this VERY important statement by Cindy. Zanny gave Casey 55 days from the time she nabbed Caylee to learn her lesson and that 55 days from the time of the kidnapping to Caylee’s birthday is 55 days (no it isn’t).
The next important part to this interview comes at 1:15 minutes into Part 11 (the end) of the interview. This is when the FBI agent throws a wrench in Cindy’s monkey-works by asking Cindy if, in this new smackdown story, if Zanny gave Caylee 55 days (until Caylee’s birthday) to learn her lesson, shouldn’t we all be able to expect Casey to come forward after the 9th of August to give details on where Caylee is because the “55 days” will be up. Let’s keep in mind that August 9 is just 10 days away! (or 11 if you count like an Anthony) Cindy knows damned well there’s not any truth to what she’s just barfed out on the table in this interview and she responds with…
She doesn’t know when the 55 days started because she doesn’t know when Casey put the password in – IT COULD HAVE BEEN JULY 16TH SHE SAYS. Which means that Cindy is now stating the 55 days is now tied to the exact date when Casey changed the password to timer55 and has NOTHING to do with the day Caylee was kidnapped.
She also states that Lee has been passing all this information to OCSO. As previously pointed out – that’s a crock of crap. He told nothing.
Now, we go to George’s FBI interview on the same date. George states in this interview that Cindy had been Googling “timer55″ to try to come up with a meaning for it! He mentions nothing of Lee having new information. IF Lee and Cindy were conspiring to come up with this new story, they were keeping George (and have to this date I would offer), in total darkness. Which is exactly how we have seen George as far as the entire family’s history – so this fits the pattern, doesn’t it? BUT, Cindy is trying to find a meaning via Google for timer55! She hasn’t been told anything about the meaning of timer55, other than possibly Lee telling her Casey said there’s “some meaning” to “some password”. At this point George is stating it could be anything from computer programming to terrorism!
But further to that, George shows that he is actually at the same level of confusion on the new Jay Blanchard Park story as Lee shows in the July 28th visitation (after the weekend where SOME message may have been passed from Casey). Because he, just like Lee, is speculating Jesse did a smackdown, Zenaida did a smackdown, or SOMEONE did a smackdown!
So two things are apparent on the day of the FBI interviews. Cindy is telling lies and then backing out of them about the meaning of timer55. George is confessing that Cindy is trying to find a meaning to attach to timer55. And Lee is withholding potentially new evidence from OCSO – IF Cindy is being honest that Lee even knows this new story she’s concocting. An important gap in the discovery to date is that there are no videos of an FBI interview with Lee on July 30th. During Cindy’s interview the FBI agent states that Lee is in the lobby with George and that they both are filling out the questionnaires concerning Casey’s personality and behavior. Are we to assume Lee didn’t get interviewed on that date? I don’t know.
Now, moving forward to the depositions of Cindy, George and Lee in 2009, Lee states he learned of the timer55 password on the night of July 15th. He states he did NOT learn of the “55 day” meaning of timer55 until two days after Casey was out on bond. He states at that time he heard the Jay Blanchard Park story for the FIRST TIME and the timer55 meaning for the FIRST TIME. At that point, he adds that Casey told him that the timer55 password to her Myspace account was changed by the kidnapper (Zanny) and that the kidnapper was using Casey’s Myspace account to “pass instructions”. But we clearly have, in the July 25th visitation video between Lee and Casey, no indication that there was truly any importance to Casey’s Myspace account. The best response he got from her was a distracted, “possibly” – just like he got when he asked about her Facebook account.
Now, as we’ve previously reviewed in the Jay Blanchard Park article, in George’s 2009 deposition he specifically states (and he does this as well in the July 30th FBI interview) that the whole Jay Blanchard Park/timer55 story is speculation on their (the Anthony family’s) part. They were “brainstorming” – which in and of itself seems to not register as abnormal behavior for this family. On page 427 of Cindy’s deposition the SA begins to question her about the Jay Blanchard Park story. They ask her if Lee was told by Casey about this story after Casey was bonded by Padilla on the 21st of August. Cindy says YES. The SA pushes her again on this answer asking if she is sure it was on or after the 21st of August and she replies:
Yeah. I can’t say for sure when. But I know I didn’t hear it when Casey was first — before she was incarcerated. It had to have come after. I did not know that story, because I never gave that to the authorities. And I don’t believe I gave that to them when we did the timeline on August 1st, so it had to have been sometime after that.
Cindy has both lied and told the truth in two back-to-back statements. She DID tell authorities about the Jay Blanchard Park prior to August 21st. She told the FBI. And she’s ABSOLUTELY telling the truth when she says she failed to utter a single syllable of this new story when she established the timeline with OCSO in her only official interview with them just 2 days later!
As I have stated and detailed in the Jay Blanchard Park article, I believe Cindy detailed the new story to Casey on the first day she was home on bond. I believe Cindy immediately whisked her away to the shower, and told her what story she was going to be sticking with. Leonard Padilla says after Cindy spent several minutes in the bathroom with Casey, Cindy came out to the living room and announced Casey had just told her the whole Jay Blanchard Park smackdown story. Cindy was the first to utter this story to a public audience when, in that living room while Casey was showering, she gave detailed information on the Jay Blanchard Park story. Immediately after that Casey came into the room and repeated the story almost verbatim – according to Leonard Padilla.
In Cindy’s 2009 deposition, on page 445, she responds to whether she talked to Casey about the case while she was home on bond as follows:
No. In the first week that she was home with — when Leonard bailed her out, it was pretty hard to talk to Casey alone. The only time we really had to talk alone was if I went into the bathroom with her and we shut the door and the fan is on.
One of those rare moments when Cindy told the truth.
Valhall.
Related posts:
- The Anthony Encycliepedia: George comes home
- Lee Anthony: “He knows what he has done.”
- The Anthony Encycliepedia: George and the gas can
- The Anthony Encycliepedia: George and the smell
- Caylee Anthony case: A hearing on contrivance
Tags: casey anthony, caylee anthony, cindy anthony, fbi, george anthony, jay blanchard park, lee anthony, OCSO, timer55
295 People have left comments on this post
Its all just so insane….
Love the rhyme, you have a way with words Val.
Excellent analysis as always Val!
What always amazes me about the Anthonys is they seem to have no concept about how computers work and that by claiming this elaborate lie regarding the timer55 it will only dig Casey’s hole even deeper when LE gets the results from the computer experts which clearly show May 14th was the day Casey switched to using timer55 as her password.
Do they not understand that every IP address that accessed Casey’s myspace or facebook and every msg deleted or not would be discovered and simply show her claim about receiving “instructions” would easily be disproved?
And Lee being so dumb as to try and wipe Casey’s pc on the 16th while at the same time telling LE he honestly believed the kidnapping story and that Zanny was communicating with her on the internet on the computer he just destroyed evidence on?
DUMB!
Wow, nicely done Val.
I am not in your league. Excellent analysis and time line.
(Okay, from here on, you can hit me upside the head when I am being stupid.)
I really wonder about Casey giving Jesse her password. As you said , we will find out. But she had such a secretive nature, and always seemed to be ‘working’ more than one guy at a time, so I can’t imagine her giving out passwords where this might be discovered.
I don’t give out passwords, and I don’t have that much going on!
I participated in 2 seperate searches with Texas-Eqqusearch looking for Caylee. We battled heat, snakes, woods and other terrible conditions trying desperately to find this child. All the while, the entire Anthony family sit close by in their air conditioned home. Casey was out on bond at that time and we had to drive past their home to get to our search area. I remember flipping a bird at their house even though no one was outside. It made me feel better.
These people are the scum of the earth and I cannot believe that total strangers are more concerned about searching for Caylee than her own family. Clearly, they knew she was dead. And obviously, they knew where Casey put her hence Dominic Casey searching in the exact area.
The defense has nothing which is why they are stalling and now going back again to wanting the names and personal information of the searchers. Well, they better not call on me if they are allowed to get our names. They will get an earfull. I will tell you in my two experiences of being with other searchers, we were there digging in the woods because we all believed Casey murdered her. Period…how dare they want to question us, they should of been standing with us, looking.
Having Grandchildren myself, it blows my mind the Anthony’s lie for their child who murdered their Granddaughter. Never would I do that, ever. I’m actually raising my 12 year old Grandson now as his Mother, my Daughter couldn’t take care of him due to drugs so I called Department of Children and Families and had him removed. Cindy Anthony sickens me and I have to believe the truth will come out in the end and collectively, they will all burn in hell.
IT has to make you wonder if this was a usual thing between cindy and casey from way back in her childhood , when casey did something bad , rather than have her own up to it , cindy would help her concock some fairy tale story to explain in a way that casey didn,t have to take responsibility . Lee said in one of his interviews that george was the weak link in the family and not told alot of things , so I would think there was alot of ” don,t tell your Dad ” going on in the family . I wonder if baez told cindy that casey’s story wasn,t working , that she had to do better than the , left Caylee at the stairs in sawgrass , so cindy did what she does best, tried to mesh the 2 stories together , but really couldn,t just get to where it made sense to anyone but a anthony
This family has no boundaries to illegal and immoral actions. Lies are their only truth.
I had lots of typos on this article. I apologize for that. I was in a hurry because I was running late. I think I have it all fixed now. (hopefully)
To heck with any typos this is the great type of work I love to get from you. I’ve read it twice and feel dirty and manipulated by all of those dirty playas. Their lies and scheming backed them into boxes yet they find a box cutter and spin off and end up in a time warped rabbit hole. I still say you gotta give them the grand prize for imagination and central casting and screenplay. AC/DC DIRTY DEEDS DONE DIRT CHEAP. Plays in my mind each time I read this. Then my head spins
Valhall,
Wonderful article as usual!!! Well, I have my humble opinions about the Anthony’s… it seems to me they are not so bright even in these absurd stories they have concocted to “help” KC. Are they really helping KC? The Anthony’s can’t keep their “lies” straighten out right? Aren’t they afraid to be caught in a lie and be held responsible for it? I guess not, it makes me believe they think they are above the law. In my mind, JB is going for a mistrial since their lies are not making sense unless JB has found a sense in those stupid stories. In one of the defense’s motions, I remember KC has restated that she dropped off Caylee with Zenaida… why in the world would dumb KC do that, we just don’t know. Defense is trying hard to raise suspicions on Mr. Kronk (poor soul) and then LKB states on National Media (what duct tape? We are going to dispute that). Another thing, why would KC give her password to Jesse? As Val said we will know at trial. No sense on that either. Well, I know the Anthony’s and the defense are trying to throw anybody under the bus and will they succeed? I doubt it. In KC’s sworn statements she told LE she dropped off Caylee on June 8, 2008 between 9 and 13:00 hours… now, that’s 4 hours of stretch.
The defense is all about smoke and mirrors. I know they have a lot of people working to fit KC’s lies into a truthful story… the truth is “is it possible”?
It’s so disgusting that Caylee’s grandparents just don’t really care about bringing justice for her. I hope that down the road the Anthony’s will be in jail where they all belong. So many lives have been dragged through mud because of them.
Val, it’s no wonder Cindy et al don’t want to visit Casey in jail. You have accurately detailed here some of the reasons. Cindy seemed to think she had all her ducks quacking in unison, so much so, that she actually pestered the FBI for these interviews. Obviously she felt she was losing ground with the Orlando LE. Cindy felt she could control every last issue and thought that others should have…and went out of her way to try to achieve this goal. I don’t know why Casey changed the password but you have convinced me that Cindy tried to re-write the history of it here with results other than she had hoped for. I think she has such power over that family that she actually thinks if she THINKS it then the rest of the family just imbibes it magically. If they hesitate to read her thoughts, she will drop bread crumbs to show the way until they follow her trail and quack the right songs. Her manipulative nature is so deep seeded that it amazes me.
Your ability to see so clearly through the game and read between the lines also amazes me. Just to think that LE and the FBI were surely aware of this way back when, too, plus more that we are not privy to.
I have to wonder if George really thought that Caylee would be returned on her birthday due to this game Cindy played. If so, what else is she capable of? People say Casey is a sociopath but I’m not sure we don’t have another one in the mix.
“The sociopath leading the sociopath,” so to speak.
Excellent article, Val.
So let me get this straight…Casey gets out on bond, comes home, and instead of strangling her until she tells where Caylee is, Cindy immediately takes her into he bathroom so she can concoct more plausible story to get Casey off the hook for Caylee’s disappearance. Unfreakingbelievable. Add stupidly trying to put importance on a password, anne this is just…wow.
It’s like there HAD to be an alternate explanation, had to be some conspiracy there and th family was going to find it no matter what or who was in their way or could have a finger pointed at. This family disgusts me. Makes me wonder if they abandoned Caylee before she was even born, or just when Caylee became a threat to their precious, perfect daughter’s life…I don’t think they ever REALLY loved Caylee. She was just another accessory to make them feel good, easily discarded when she didn’t do that anymore…that poor, poor baby…
I have been busy doing other stuff this AM, so I am late on this article. 8O Very nice job, valhall, although I am inclined to call you Monk-ette from now on since you are in the same class of detective as Monk from tv.
I am fairly certain that the FBI did nothing in this case without first contacting OCSO. In some cases, they use their federal prerogatives as a club, but I have seen no indication of it in this one. So it is safe to assume that the FBI interviewed Cindy and George (and potentially Lee) only after in depth discussions and planning between them and OCSO. I also suspect that OCSO was given copies of tapes immediately after these FBI interviews and were using this information to drive a wedge between the Anthony family members from the first day of their interviews on.
This would ex[lain part of the cryptic “Lee knows what he has done” statement.
I do not have much time to spend on this today as I am involved in a different sort of detective work at present. I am trying to ferret out all of the lies told by the Marine Corps with respect to the water contamination at Camp Lejeune, NC. It has been slow going for these poisoned patriots and they can use all of the help that they can get in this effort. I am not one of them, except peripherally, but I want to help them.
Anyway, NICE JOB and I am always impressed by your clarity of vision!
Hi, Valhall. Where did you get the information that “The first time we, the public, can tell timer55 was used as a password by either Casey or some one in the Anthony family was on May 14, 2008 at 8:49 am when the “owner” account on the Anthony desktop was changed from rico234 to timer55″?
According to Sandra Cawn, the “owner” account password was “Rico23″ when Cawn examined the HP, and that password had been set on May 14.
“There are two user profiles being used on the HP desktop computer; “owner” and “casey”. There is one user profile on the Compaq laptop; “bobby”. To determine whether or not either of these user accounts requires a password to log on, the software application “SAMinside” was utilized to analyze two Registry files; SAM and System. The HP computer “casey” account and the Compaq laptop computer “bobby” account require no logon passwords. The “owner” account on the HP desktop computer has an assigned password of “rico23” that was set on May 14, 2008.”
Where does the discovery indicate that the password was changed from “Rico234″ to “Timer55″?
Maura,
As per usual, you are correct in your admonition. I should state that as POSSIBLY used the timer55. I will insert that word immediately, because I do understand there is a question.
Just very sloppy language on my part.
Maura,
I’d like to follow up with why I believe the password was changed TO timer55 in May instead of FROM timer55 to rico234.
Last Password Change: 05/14/08 08:49:19AM
That’s the last password change on the owner account as per you and JWG’s awesome info…Lee tried rico234 and it did not work.
That means from 5/14 to 7/25 (date of jail visit) the password was something other than rico234. Hence, my assumption it was changed to timer55 in May.
Good Morning. I’m curious….does anyone know if Casey accepts a plea and doesn’t go to trial, is there some way the public will know what the DA had on her? It will drive me nuts to never know what they know. Thanks.
FRG…The Anthony’s lies are what I think is going to seal Casey’s fate. Remind me not to get my relatives help if I’m ever in trouble. LOL
HA! *that popping sound is Val’s head*
Maura,
I just saw what I have read over 14 million times and misread. The password was rico23, not rico234. Which would explain why Lee was not having a successful log-in with “rico234″.
This WOULD indicate that the OLD password was timer55. And since Jesse knew it, it must have been that for many, many moons. Which would lead to the conclusion, and support the theory this is all a pack of bullshit, that it never meant a damned thing either in connection to PR, Caylee, Zanny or anything else.
Don’t worry – I usually catch up with you…I’m just a slow learner!
Great info Val – love your stuff.
So I am correct in assuming that in ‘Anthonyese’ brainstorming means to concoct a fantastic lie to shift attention away from the true facts in order for the search teams never to find your granddaughter.
What a horrid family!
Okay, I’ve done something I don’t normally do, and I have corrected the article concerning the password change on May 14th (which doesn’t change the article much as far as substance and intended message). I just didn’t want to be part of promulgating further confusion, so I felt this best.
Also, I’ll share this since it’s interesting . . .
As early as July 21, 2008, Cindy was spreading the word that Casey was communicating using clues. Cindy told Local 13 News: “Her plan was to get us all back together, and I think her plan has changed and I think that’s what happened. Her plan changed halfway through, and she doesn’t know where it’s at right now. I truly believe Casey knows who has Caylee but it’s code name. That’s why they can’t find that person just yet.”
Saturday, July 19: Cindy and Jose Baez were on Geraldo. Lee said in his OCSO interview that Casey’s receipts had twice been offered to OCSO and twice rejected. Lee said the topic of the receipts came up immediately after the Geraldo interview, and when Baez heard about the receipts, he asked Lee if he could have them, and Lee gave them to Baez.
Valhall and Maura,
Hello!!! You two are amazing!! Thank you so much!!!
Correct me if I am wrong, I thought I read the receipts were given to LE… well, since I have no good memory you just said the receipts are with JB. Just wondering.
And I think it’s safe to assume, Maura, that on July 21st there wasn’t any super-secret messages via Baez being passed, so that whole crock of crap from Cindy about Casey the Windtalker code-speak was straight from the deep, creepy recesses of her own mind.
FRG,
A hand written list of the receipts was supplied to OCSO by Lee. The actual receipts were turned over to Baez. And the timeline for that is as follows:
Lee turned them over to Baez.
Lee returned to Baez’s office and asked to see the receipts and made the list.
Lee turned the list over to OCSO.
Which is pretty convenient for Lee because then he got to insinuate that there might be receipts missing – after he turned them over to Baez.
Yeah – whatever.
Ah yes and it does make sense that the password “timer55″ was changed TO “rico23″ (as in puerto”rico”
the same time as that text to Amy re their trip.
Jose was there when Casey was bailed out of jail so it is possible that he concocted the Blanchard Park story knowing that Casey would not be giving any formal interviews to LE. They all realized that the Sawgrass story did not compute. Jose is in just as deep as Cindy. I wouldn’t be surprised if Cindy is providing legal advise to Jose. lol
To actually think that these grandparents helped Casey to come up with with a better story (lie) of how Caylee was kidnapped is mind numbing to me. How could they have done this to Caylee and her memory???? I have followed this case from day 31 and try to read everything related to this case but actually reading this article today hits home to me how much they have disregarded justice for Caylee. It is truly sad.
Great article!! i have a question about the timer55. i thought i read somewhere that people used that on myspace or facebook to pop up a response when the user was busy. like: “not on computer right now” there was in some of the im’s, a response when Casey wasn’t on the computer to let the person know she was busy. I understood this to be something she had to put into her computer to make this happen- i believed that is how she knew this timer55
sorry if confusing and not evidenced backed up
P. 2 of 13
casey o marie(10:06:31 pm) yep, not here
(4:32:11) yep, not here
ect.
http://www.docstoc.com/docs/1603739/casey-anthony-im-messages
I thought this instant message to im’s was an input of a code timer55
Valhall,
Another wonderful blog!
It always amazes me how the Anthony’s seem to keep on digging Casey’s hole deeper. My question to you is do you think Cindy (mainly) does this intentionally, or unintentionally? Everytime her mouth opens it hurts Casey’s case, lol.
Keep up the great work!
Thanks.
Val,
Great imsight as usual!
I wanted to add that in those interviews that you refer too, we definitley do see the story come to life…
In Lee’s visit to KC, he actually tells her that he has found some of the players she told LE about…. KC looks bewildered and replies.. ” You did” ????????
KC is as shocked as we are!
Also, the ” fear factor” is brought to life in CA’s visit as well…
We know that Yuri M says that when he was talking to KC in the morning of Jul 16, 08..she tells him the reason that she didnt tell anyone about this, is becasue she had seen on TV, that it is always bad to involve LE in kidnapping situations..
We then see in CA’s visit to KC, how CA plants the fear being the reason of how the family and Caylee arent safe, if she tells on anyone. She asks KC ” are we in danger?” Is this why you cant talk? Are they coming after us? Then you see KC take a stand like this is the whole explanation of why KC didnt talk, or tell the truth..Its all for the selfless act of taking the hit, to save her daughter and family…
We also see KV catch on to CA’s created scenario when CA is helping get the players names straight and who everyone is that should be involved… She even helps KC when KC has it wrong about ZFG last name in relation to her step father Victor… KC then explains that ZFG was adopted… They are cooking with gas now… KC then volenteers to CA that ZFG gave KC her 1st hais shhhtraightener.. oh and those dvds…
we later find out that CA gets home and immediatley brings them to LE…
CA pushes too far when she asks KC… I dont get why she didnt come bak for the car????
KC gives CA a look … She cant tell CA the answer as its being taped … this is the cue for CA to figure that one out on her own and come up with a plausible explantion…
Now CA has enough information and has underhandedly, let KC know they are behind her, amd are concocking the story for her… Clearly they have all been in communication behind the scenes thru Baez but very guardedly…
Now CA knows that KC lied thru her teeth to LE about working, and bringing them on a wild goose chase and bringing them to the sawgrass, getting the tattoo, and the pics of KC partying it up, have to be explained…This is where CA creates the ” toodoo” list…
KC had to do all these things (under duress) as per the kidnappers instruction. This was the only way she cud get Caylee bak and keep hee safe..
As much duress as KC was in, she complied with everything..including stealing Amys checkbook, and buying things on camera that are indicative of a mother who doesnt care, but really KC’s compliance speaks of her true love for Caylee and her family… She will lie, steal cheat and do whatever she can to get her daughter back…
To think …KC did everything she was told to do and all the while, the poser nanny, was just making KC do things to make KC llok guilty. Then when the bad guys killed Caylee, what do they do???They go and steal Caylees blanket, and other things from the house (as ZFG had a key) and put her remains right behind the house, as they heard KC say from jail that Caylee was close to home…just to make it look like KC was the one who did it….
P.S. I wont be surprised to see her take the stand so to use this exact same story..She will even be able to tell the jury how she ended up having to hold bak her true defesne story when taking the plea at the fraud trial and this is the only reason she is a convicted felon….
They all make me sick….
Wow, your theories & timelines are great……did you analyze Lee’s videotaped interview with Casey, the end of Part 2, when Casey says “tell Mom to search in areas that are familiar to us, to our family”…….I thought that was so strange back then & still do….
anyone else think that is when she was telling them where to look for little Caylees body?
Kari … I read about that Timer55 program. It was in one of Dom Casey’s emails to Cindy. That program is made for IRC chats, not aim and yahoo chats. I laughed when I read that email, because Dom Casey had no clue what in the world he was talking about. You can set AIM and Yahoo to send an away message… that feature does not require any third party programs.
Just wanted to add: the info in the email from Dom Casey on a Timer 55 program looked to be copied and pasted from a webpage, but I Googled and can’t find any info on it.. so who knows what it is.
Val
I’m glad that you make a mistake now and then. It makes you human.
Dare I say, Maura may have made one now and then?
It makes me feel less imbecilic. Although, since I haven’t necessarily caught one of your mistakes, than perhaps I am no less than before.
timer 55 my behind. Cindy should write for the soap operas for all of the stupid scenarios she comes up with. Cindy wrote the book on pathological lying. Casey had to so sure she could give Cindy any stupid scenario she created and Cindy would weave it into a more stupid plot to cover for Casey. Cindy is as whacked out as her daughter. I hate that we share the same name.
crucibelle said: { Feb 12, 2010 – 12:02:12 }
Kari … I read about that Timer55 program
thanks for answering me… i knew i heard about it somewhere … so much to remember and hard to know where to go look again!
The email from Dom to Cindy that I’m talking about is on page 8076 of this document: http://www.wftv.com/pdf/21148535/detail.html
Anyone who knows anything about computers, please read that and tell me it doesn’t make you laugh or at least shake your head at what Dom Casey is proposing.
Kari – No problem, just trying to help. That one just stood out in my mind, because I just couldn’t believe Dom was going on and on about that.
Val, so interesting! I love reading this site!
I have a question for anyone……….Maura maybe……..about Casey’s stories about Caylees father.
It seems to me like almost every deposition of people who knew Casey had a different version of what happened to Caylee’s father and what his name was. I always thought I should go back and compare different stories (there were probably 8 or more different stories)! Other than Casey reporting to almost all her friends that Caylee’s father died, was there anything else in the stories that was the same? It just amazes me that Casey could keep up with whatever story she told to whichever person. Just amazing. I guess Casey is so good at lying that the JB Park story rolled off her tongue just as easily as any other lie!
The whole Zenaida thing makes no sense and you can tell they were making it up on the fly. WHY ELSE would she start talking to cops the second Cindy called them? If her story were consistent, there would have been no Universal trip, telling them stories, etc, because according to her story, she had to keep silent or her family would be in danger. I hope she tries this with a jury.
Dominic Casey once sent an email about a bot which had timer55 in it. The problem with this is that nothing on the computers belonging to the As has ever indicated that they contained any type of IRC bot scripts or other forms of scripting. So, this was nonsense from the start and really needed no detective work at all. Dominic was grasping at straws to try to give Cindy any kind of a potential lead on what this might mean at the time.
There seems to be no meaningful reason for using this password other than the P-trip mentioned by AZL.
Of course, maybe Casey suddenly got struck by a beam from outer space and became a genius like Travolta in that movie Phenomenon! That is it! I am sure of it!! She became a genius and started writing bots to take over the world using timer55 password protected accounts and she found herself a sidekick named Pinky!!!
8O 
Terrific article, as usual Val! I really enjoy reading over here.
I had a nightmare last night (for real!) that Cindy was testifying in the murder trial, and in my dream she was 500% more out-of-control-and-wacked-out than in the Morgan/ZG depo!!! I think she will be the ultimate “hostile witness” with the SA and I’m worried that the defense will just let her go on and on and on, spewing forth her crazy arse theories and accusations against LE. Needless to say, I woke up feeling very disturbed! I know that in reality Judge Strickland will keep her in line (as well as SA), but it’s going to be veeerrry interesting to see her try and manipulate the jurors. I have faith that the fine citizens of FLA will see right through her……and that her testimony will be yet another nail in Casey’s coffin.
This whole family I wouldn’t trust as far as I could throw them. Sindy and her puppet husband Georgette are obviously trying to obstruct justice and create doubt with all the TV appearances they have done. Now she is a convicted felon for check fraud, geez, yeah, I would be proud to have a daughter like that. NOT!!! Sindy and Georgette must just be beaming with pride.
To be fair to Casey (why I have no idea) let’s list her attributes.
1. ?????
Okay now on to her faults:
1. Drinks like a fish
2. Does drugs
3. Pees in public parking lots
4. Doesn’t tell the truth even if it would bitch slap her in the face.
5. Never reports her daughter is missing, even after 31 or more days.
6. While her daughter is missing, parties her little butt off at clubs.
7. Called her daughter a little snot head when texting to another friend.
8. Steals money from her granddad’s nursing home account (Aw, what a great granddaughter, NOT!!!)
9. Steals Sindy’s credit card and racks up the charges.
10. Stole checks from a friend and is now a convicted felon because of it.
11. Sluts around.
12. Narcisstic (it’s all about ME, ME, ME!!!)
13. Sociopath
14. Gets a tatoo “The Beautiful Life” while her daughter is missing.
15. Disrespectful to parents.
16. Blames old boyfriends for her daughters disappearance.
17. Top of the list to win the award “Most hated woman in America” with her Mom Sindy a close second.
18. Prime suspect in the death of her daughter.
Can’t wait for this trial to begin. May 2011 is a long way off, but if it means that the prosecution can present an outstanding case on how this baby killer should be put away for life or given the DP, I am all for it.
Todd-Great sign in name. Very funny.
» lily said: { Feb 12, 2010 – 09:02:23 }
” I’ve read it twice and feel dirty and manipulated by all of those dirty playas.”
I know the feeling…every time I watch the visitation videos, or the Cindy FBI video, I feel the need to scrub my ears and eyeballs with a wire brush and bleach.
Great article once again Val! I am relieved to know that you do not put much weight in anything stated by Lee. While I do believe he entered into this whole debacle with the best intentions…I think he quickly realized his lil sis was a huge liar. Just as CA did, or maybe at the direction of CA, Lee turned to the dark side and tried to find a way to defend KC.
I have taken grief for this, and I am sure there will be more, but I am of the opinion that GA knew right off that KC was lying and Caylee was dead. The day after KC was out on bond, which I believe is the day after the *new and improved* Jay Blanchard story was put into play, GA went off on KC demanding she tell him what she did with his grand daughter (per Tracy). I believe at this time GA was given an option by the queen bee…..play along, or get out.
At this point GA cannot be considered a sympathetic figure, he has damaged any chance of that, but I believe given the platform, he would be the only one in the family to be truthful.
Here’s the plan – one of the ladies reading / posting here will go to Orlando. Follow George and get him alone. We know he’s looking for a sympathetic ear and some companionship. I don’t think it will be long before he slips up.
Anyone up for it?
Nauseated,
LOL!!!! Is there any desperate person here? Just kidding!!! At this point of the game I don’t believe George goes to the loo by himself… just under Cindy’s permission and supervision!!!!!
Ummm Nauseated…..eeeeew! lol
I had not read any of those emails linked above before. Lee’s ego must have exploded when Dom offered him the private investigator internship. He probably thought he was actually clever and somebody finally recognized it. Sigh.
FRG –
You’re probably right. Cindy probably has him on one of those retractable dog leashes.
George should have hooked up with one of his internet connections and taken off long ago. Dumb slob!
Speaking of videos of the twisted A logic!! I had never seen this interview before, if you dare, listen to CA here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZvEhnz
CA had actually convinced herself that ANYONE else was to blame, just not her lil KC.
Delusional does not come close folks…doesn’t even scratch the surface.
Um, Nitasche…sorry, but that’s a bad link. I get this msg on YouTube: “The URL contained a malformed video ID.”
Any time I watch a video of CA, it makes me ill…don’t know why I even bother. (LOL)
..in complete agrrement there FRG, she probably ties his leash to the door of the salon while she gets her hair done.
..let’s think—-where COULD we expect to find george alone?
..ummmmmmmmmm..yeah, i got nothing..
Oh sorry, not sure how I f’d that up!
Try this one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZvEhnzlobA
Great insight! All I’ve got to say is if/when my child got home from jail on bond the ONLY smack down happening would be my foot up her ass until the whole truth and nothing but the truth came out
. I love my child more than anything in the world but I would never cover up something as heinous as this…He is only 10 but even if he gets in trouble at school for being disruptive he has hell to pay when I find out and he knows it!
I was taught to love your child but make sure they know who is in charge or you will never keep them in line. I know not all children can be kept in line no matter how much you try but at that point you need to get them professional help.
I’ve been following your site for a while. Val, and always find your articles interesting and very detailed – the state should be having you help them! (Not that they will need help putting KC away, but you do know your facts.)
One minor thing I can add, way back when Caylee first went missing there were articles on several websites and news sites about both Caylee and Casey, and I recall seeing a link to a website for wedding planning called “the knot” and Casey had her photo up there with Jesse and a blurb about how she was getting married, and her engagement to Jesse listed.
It has long since been taken down, I’m sure, but my niece used that knot site (wedding.theknot.com/) for her wedding and you have to sign in and have a password which both the future bride and groom use to add info. This could be when Jesse was told the timer55 password – if it’s something KC used over and over on different sites. (Maybe they have archives that could be searched?)
» William Hill said: { Feb 12, 2010 – 12:02:34 }
Of course, maybe Casey suddenly got struck by a beam from outer space and became a genius like Travolta in that movie Phenomenon! That is it! I am sure of it!! She became a genius and started writing bots to take over the world using timer55 password protected accounts and she found herself a sidekick named Pinky!!!
—-
LMAO William
According to the video Cindy spoke to Casey every day – she gave her clues to where Caylee was – okay – so why did she NEVER share those clues with any agency that could help find Caylee ? Complete BS.
Just watched the you tube posted by Nitasch and I wanted to jump through the screen and strangle that bitch…it’s all about them and everyone else around is responsible. I mean REALLY to say that the media is responsible for all the hype and no one knows what is going on. OK so the media (all of them) killed Caylee and threw her away like trash but poor me and my family!!! She watched the tapes of Casey complaining of everyone caring about Caylee and not her – BUT, the media doesn’t show everything except what they want. I don’t care how much editing was done, SHE STILL SAID IT!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FpteGu0PL0
..i much prefer this video of george and cindy.
..cindy’s head must have exploded when she watched herself on it !
Oh my goodness that woman gives me a headache. We’re supposed to get it because she must talk in clues too. sheesh. Cindy never went on a search for one minute to look for Caylee, yet everyone else will be at fault if Caylee is not brought home. We need a smiley that pops.
Again ValHall (and whomever else helped with this) – you ROCK!!!
This is just a perfect example of how they spin, turn, twist, and bend every word they speak.
One would THINK if a precious little girl was missing, they would speak the TRUTH about everything. Oh no, not the Anthony family. Just a bunch of lies! I hope they all get what’s coming to them for all of those lies.
Question, it’s been going on for so long, I’ve forgotten more about this case than I remember. I know that Cindy said that Casey’s half-truths or mistruths don’t mean she’s a murderer. But has anyone ever asked Cindy how she can explain the fact that no Zenaida ever lived at Sawgrass, no one ever lived in apartment 210 for the previous 4-5 months. Just that one statement about leaving Caylee on the steps… I want to know how Cindy justifies that. Or… are we now to believe –totally — that the Sawgrass story was a half-truth and the real story is the Blanchard Park Smackdown? I’d love for someone to sit her down and ask her to explain each and every lie that Casey told the detectives in her two interrogations. Lie by lie, sentence by sentence. Wouldn’t that be interesting??
I also think the reason George does what Cindy tells him to do is because he is the worst liar in the family. Cindy is by far the best, followed closely by Casey, then Lee. George couldn’t keep a fake story straight to save his soul. He makes faces, pretends he doesn’t hear the question, repeats the question to give himself more time to think, gets all red in the face, gets resentful and threatens the interviewere, stutters… all because he’s a terrible liar.
..that’s why i find it so strange that in that youtube clip, george is allowed to do ALL of the talking, and cindy doesn’t say a word.
..for one thing i didn’t think that was physically possible for cindy!
..cindy……silent….for an entire 6 minutes, who knew..!
Val,
Once again, you’ve managed to gift us with a most excellent article, that speaks so well of the time and attention you devote to the details that a few of we, more marshmellowed brained folk, would miss in a heartbeat! Thank you, Val!
So now we know, or can be reasonably certain, that Timer55 was around long before Caylee’s demise. Beyond any doubt, it is no far reach to refer to near all of the Anthony’s as absolute liars — with the exception George, who just hasn’t a clue so most of the time, or as you so aptly put it:
“George states in this interview that Cindy had been Googling “timer55″ to try to come up with a meaning for it! He mentions nothing of Lee having new information. IF Lee and Cindy were conspiring to come up with this new story, they were keeping George (and have to this date I would offer), in total darkness. Which is exactly how we have seen George as far as the entire family’s history –”
Should we hope that Lee, Casey, Cindy, Baez, Lyons and Baden would enlighten him well enough before trial that he will “get with the program” or at least follow the script?
Nah. Far better for Caylee that they keep her grandfather guessing, though I do expect him to crack under his own and often displayed “sentamentality” when he’s confronted with the facts, such as will be provided by the autopsy report, and all of the blown up photographs, as well as her rotting, frayed, dirty clothing, not to negate her bones, and perhaps a shread of trunk carpeting the stench of which has been preserved for just such an occassion.
I could be wrong. This could be but wishful thinking, on my part, but I do believe that come trial it will become clear to George the fool he’s been made of, and enough will be enough.
Let’s hope so.
Willow
Val,
‘Near forgot to mention your rhyme.
Is that how it goes? Gee! Thanks for reminding me! I’d nearly forgotten.
» Nitasch said: { Feb 12, 2010 – 02:02:13 }
Oh sorry, not sure how I f’d that up!
Try this one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZvEhnzlobA
*****
Also during this interview, Cindy brings up the STRANGE (yes, it is) fact that the car was abandoned at Amscot–and seriously suggests that it was NOT Casey who was the last person to drive it/who left it there.
INCREDIBLE that she was already working to distance Casey from the smell of Caylee’s death (yes, it was and is), all the while also claiming to LE, the media etc that the smell was from (non-existent) rotting pizza (no, it wasn’t–and she knew it).
I will never be persuaded that Cindy and George did not know that Caylee was gone–as in permanently GONE– when they smelled that car on Johnson’s lot.
I know some opine that they were in denial.
I say they were in cover-up mode–from that moment on.
That’s why George puked on the Johnson’s lot (and again during an interview with OCSO).
That’s why–instead of immediately calling 9-1-1, or even immediately calling Casey to see if she and Caylee were OK, they drove that car home, closed the garage door behind them, and did things that they’ll have to live with for the rest of their lives (which is not punishment enough for Cindy who I am convinced is closer to Casey on the sociopath spectrum than many might imagine).
That’s why Lee was summoned to the house that night (and that is why it took several HOURS for Cindy to even mention Caylee as a “possible” [sic] “missing” 3 yr old to 9-1-1.
And she has the nerve to later accuse LE of not moving fast enough.
Why would Lee need to get the laptop when they could access any/all of Casey’s email and social networking pages from the desktop?
If she gave him the passwords, why not just hop on the computer at the house and go from there??
If Casey is the one who deleted files/caused the laptop to crash/caused the BSOD (as many have posited), and if Tony had already discovered the BSOD when the deputy allegedly tried to boot it up while retrieving Casey’s cell phone (and I say ALLEGEDLY, because I do not base conclusions on unverified posts to Scared Monkeys),
they why wouldn’t Tony have told that to Lee BEFORE Lee headed all the way over there to retrieve it?? Wouldn’t that have obviated the need for that trip?? (or, at the very least, obviated the need for the trip THAT NIGHT??)
Anyway-
IMO, all 3 of the family members are in this–in one way or another– up to their eyeballs, though I also believe that Cindy is the obvious ringmaster.
*****
BTW-
It is no secret that I am no fan of Baez, but I wish people would understand that none of the JBP scenario was “distributed” by him/his firm.
This was originated in the Anthony home, not only obvious from George’s “we were brainstorming” admission, but also from the carefully constructed time line of comments contained in jail house video visits and LE interviews as set forth so neatly for all by Val.
Val,
Told ya so.
I wonder about Cindy’s lies and twisting of the truth to try and protect Casey. It reminds me of the Van Der Sloot guy in the Holloway case. However, George, Cindy and Lee were so used to playing these mind games with Casey all her life (just ask Grandma and Cindy’s brother) and now figure she is so stupid, that she will get her self in trouble: so they felt they had to step in and make up stories for her. I think they deserve to be charged as accomplices, as I think they basically have done their best to cover up Caylee’s murder by Casey. All, guilty as charged. The other thing that concerns me very much is the fact that Cindy has a nursing license and I know that there are standards that nurses must meet. If her character is one of lies and cover ups, then what did she do when it came to patient care? If I was a family member of anyone she cared for, I would be investigating anything that was questionable. She is shady at best.
Silver,
Silver! Where have you been! You know our most desperate need of you, right! But anyway, of course none of the JBP nonsense came from the Baez camp, but could you possibly enlighten us on now the Baez crew might be able to put all of the Anthonys on the same page, sync their stories, prior to trial? I mean, he’s going to have to try to do that, right?
Thanks Silver.
Willow
Silver,
Sorry, I was so excited to see your name that I mis-typed. Enlighten us on how … not now. Duh!
Here is my theory on TIMER55…First, Casey really is not that smart..even if she thinks she is..she is just an excellant liar..I think that the timer55 came from using a real kitchen timer to but Caylee to sleep….and like all timers…it only shows the number 55 before it turns into 60 minutes….so Casey would drug Caylee and set the timer for 55 or 60 minutes and know that for sure she was out like a LIGHT! Timer55 another aid to her babysitter!
Wonderful post, great comments!
As I was reading, I wondered if Cindy reads here.
You all are giving her an education if she does.
That is if she doesn’t blow a fuse first.
Why, why why have they not all been arrested? Why is this case taking sooooooo long. I would be so outraged if I lived in OC at the waste, huge waste (yeah, I’m sorry) of money that this is costing.
PLEASE arrest Cindy George and Lee. NOW. This is unbelievable but I do think that had there not been a Cindy in her life Casey would not have turned out as she did. Cindy is evil
Could the “Timer55″ be a slang reference, related to age? Like, the age of 55 being related to retirement… being an “Old-Timer”…
Can anyone say “ENABLER” – Cindy and Casey are pathological liars, narcissistic sociopaths, but every person like that has to have enablers so they can continue with their behavior.
What blows me away is the fact that GA left CA for reasons smaller than the death of his grand-daughter, and why he choses to stay now when this is the biggest reason he should leave confuses me. He said they split up because of KC, why didn’t he leave for the sake of Caylee and her life?????
It has got to be the money they were getting or something. This wife of his is the devil and KC is the decipal…It is so sad that GA forgot he had a spine in the past and when he truly should have used it, he didn’t. No one and I mean no one is worth any member of my family’s life, NO ONE. JUSTICE FOR CAYLEE IN 2008-2009-2010 and 2011.
Thank you for writing this, very interesting! I think it’s important to bring light to the b.s. swirling around the whole notion of Casey and any idea of codes, numerical nonsense, hidden meanings to passwords, addresses, names, that Casey was speaking in code and revealing information to her parents. BS. GA and CA seem to have been looking for a way to let Casey off the hook, any way to *believe* that Casey didn’t do it. By spreading code-speaking rumors and other such crap, it encouraged others in the public to also go down that road, trying to turn Casey into some sort of soothe-saying, code-speaking, calculation-making mastermind. IMHO, it takes the focus off the case and cheapens it, a bit. Makes it kind of hocus-pocusy and sensationalizes what is actually a very real and brutal crime. This is a mother that (likely) committed a HORRIBLE act and we don’t need to be wasting our time figuring out astrological signs and the calculation of the stars in relation to the address of the Anthony home and the final resting place of Caylee’s remains and computing it all to see if Casey’s “codes” can reveal anything to us (exaggeration, but you get my drift).
So, by writing an article like this, you help to show that the timer55 hypotheses are a load of crap, as you said, and Cindy or Casey or whoever promoted the story, IMHO as a ruse. Cindy may have done it because at the beginning she was grasping at straws to think of any way that Casey was innocent. And Casey just followed right along, as you say. And now, here we are all still talking about it, when really- it’s just hot air.
Why George and Cindy would even waste their time in trying to google a password as generic as timer55 is beyond me. I have a few different password I cycle through and 2 of them are random words with numbers after them. One of them is an object I happened to glance at while I was trying to think of a new password, plus 3 random numbers after it.
Valhall –
Excellent article. As usual, you expose the gaping holes in KC and CA’s lies with articulate clarity. You are so right about the Timer55 nonsense. I agree with many posters that Cindy is the source of the whole JBP and Timer55 scenario, but I think her desire to concoct these stories comes from her inability to accept KC had anything to do with Caylee’s murder.
I have been a fraud investigator for nearly 25 years. I have seen corporate denial up close too many times. The CEO’s and board of directors of many companies would prefer to sweep fraud under the carpet rather than admit one of their beloved executives did them wrong. You would laugh at the rationalizations that spew out of top management’s mouths in order to save their pet’s behind. Here is just one example: I tracked massive fraud to the computer files of the number three person of a company. He was assisted by one of his direct reports. The number three guy spent up to six hours a day recording fraudulent transactions of which he personally benefitted to the tune of several million dollars. When I reported my findings to the CEO, I started with the lower-level employee’s actions. The CEO’s immediate response was to order the firing of that employee. I then laid out the evidence against the number three guy. The CEO immediately began making improbable excuses for #3, such as maybe someone had access to #3′s computer. I methodically shot down each one of the CEO’s lame excuses. In the end, the CEO refused to believe #3 had done anything wrong. The only action the CEO took was to send an email to #3 thatvinstructed him to be more careful about his computer access. I believe #3 still works at the company he ripped off and he probably is still stealing from them.
I have stopped being amazed by top management preference to stick their heads in the sand rather than admit one of their favorites has done wrong. Now just imagine a mother who has never been able to hold her daughter accountable for her misdeeds. Cindy is in complete denial and she is a control freak. What a dangerous combination.
*Word* Amanda!!!
I find skipping over that nonsense amazingly cathartic. Especially the address hooey and the numerology BS.
Some great comments in here today!
I’m sorry to be thick
headed but did you really mean: “when the “owner” account on the Anthony desktop appears to have been changed from timer55 to rico23?” Did you mean to say it the other way around ~ changed from rico23 to timer55? I apologize if this has already been addressed. Thick, like I said. Easily confused. It looks like quite the juicy read though which is what I’m off to do . . .
Silver,
I would like to ask a couple of questions about this. We have three scenarios possible:
1. Jose didn’t pass squat to anybody and the JBP/timer55 story is entirely from the mind of Cindy.
2. Jose passed some measure of SOME change in story (some “clue”
and then Cindy (and possibly Lee) ran with it and concocted the JBP/timer55 story. (By and large this is the scenario I believe happened.)\
3. Jose passed the whole new story from Casey to Lee – and then from Lee to Cindy.
Okay, based on the 3 scenarios above (and any mixture you want to come up with) we have the following possible acts by the Anthonys (“the Anthonys” being defined as Cindy and Lee because I think George is clueless):
a. Cindy or Cindy and Lee “made up” the JBP/timer55 story and tried to push it to the FBI (and also in the deposition). What criminal act, if any, would this classify as? Anything???
b. They were told the JBP/timer55 story and they didn’t disclose it to OCSO. Because Lee nor Cindy mentions it in their interviews with OCSO on July 29 and August 1st, respectively. What criminal act, if any, would this classify as?
c. Cindy outright lies during the deposition in 2009. Will this only be used to impeach her testimony during the trial, or will it possibly be used after the trial to also bring charges against her? And what would those charges be?
Thank you in advance!!!
NO NO NO – do not apologize! If you will go to the top of the comments and read down to Maura’s first comments and my reply with her, you will see that I had to completely correct several statements in this article! If it were not for Maura, I would still be confused.
The timer55 password was used UP UNTIL May 14th. Then the password was changed to rico23….according to the computer forensics report.
I’ve answered my own question.
. . . and have embarrassed myself!
Thank you, and I bow to the Maura-pedia.
914.22 Tampering with or harassing a witness, victim, or informant; penalties.–
(1) A person who knowingly uses intimidation or physical force, or threatens another person, or attempts to do so, or engages in misleading conduct toward another person, or offers pecuniary benefit or gain to another person, with intent to cause or induce any person to:
(a) Withhold testimony, or withhold a record, document, or other object, from an official investigation or official proceeding;
(b) Alter, destroy, mutilate, or conceal an object with intent to impair the integrity or availability of the object for use in an official investigation or official proceeding;
(c) Evade legal process summoning that person to appear as a witness, or to produce a record, document, or other object, in an official investigation or an official proceeding;
(d) Be absent from an official proceeding to which such person has been summoned by legal process;
(e) Hinder, delay, or prevent the communication to a law enforcement officer or judge of information relating to the commission or possible commission of an offense or a violation of a condition of probation, parole, or release pending a judicial proceeding; or
(f) Testify untruthfully in an official investigation or an official proceeding,
commits the crime of tampering with a witness, victim, or informant.
(2) Tampering with a witness, victim, or informant is a:
(a) Felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084, where the official investigation or official proceeding affected involves the investigation or prosecution of a misdemeanor.
(b) Felony of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084, where the official investigation or official proceeding affected involves the investigation or prosecution of a third degree felony.
(c) Felony of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084, where the official investigation or official proceeding affected involves the investigation or prosecution of a second degree felony.
(d) Felony of the first degree, punishable by a term of years not exceeding life or as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084, where the official investigation or official proceeding affected involves the investigation or prosecution of a first degree felony or a first degree felony punishable by a term of years not exceeding life.
(e) Life felony, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084, where the official investigation or official proceeding affected involves the investigation or prosecution of a life or capital felony.
(f) Felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084, where the offense level of the affected official investigation or official proceeding is indeterminable or where the affected official investigation or official proceeding involves a noncriminal investigation or proceeding.
(3) Whoever intentionally harasses another person and thereby hinders, delays, prevents, or dissuades any person from:
(a) Attending or testifying in an official proceeding or cooperating in an official investigation;
(b) Reporting to a law enforcement officer or judge the commission or possible commission of an offense or a violation of a condition of probation, parole, or release pending a judicial proceeding;
(c) Arresting or seeking the arrest of another person in connection with an offense; or
(d) Causing a criminal prosecution, or a parole or probation revocation proceeding, to be sought or instituted, or from assisting in such prosecution or proceeding;
or attempts to do so, commits the crime of harassing a witness, victim, or informant.
(4) Harassing a witness, victim, or informant is a:
(a) Misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083, where the official investigation or official proceeding affected involves the investigation or prosecution of a misdemeanor.
(b) Felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084, where the official investigation or official proceeding affected involves the investigation or prosecution of a third degree felony.
(c) Felony of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084, where the official investigation or official proceeding affected involves the investigation or prosecution of a second degree felony.
(d) Felony of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084, where the official investigation or official proceeding affected involves the investigation or prosecution of a first degree felony.
(e) Felony of the first degree, punishable by a term of years not exceeding life or as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084, where the official investigation or official proceeding affected involves the investigation or prosecution of a felony of the first degree punishable by a term of years not exceeding life or a prosecution of a life or capital felony.
(f) Felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084, where the offense level of the affected official investigation or official proceeding is indeterminable or where the affected official investigation or official proceeding involves a noncriminal investigation or proceeding.
(5) For the purposes of this section:
(a) An official proceeding need not be pending or about to be instituted at the time of the offense; and
(b) The testimony or the record, document, or other object need not be admissible in evidence or free of a claim of privilege.
(6) In a prosecution for an offense under this section, no state of mind need be proved with respect to the circumstance:
(a) That the official proceeding before a judge, court, grand jury, or government agency is before a judge or court of the state, a state or local grand jury, or a state agency; or
(b) That the judge is a judge of the state or that the law enforcement officer is an officer or employee of the state or a person authorized to act for or on behalf of the state or serving the state as an adviser or consultant.
History.–s. 3, ch. 72-315; s. 44, ch. 75-298; s. 14, ch. 84-363; s. 4, ch. 88-96; s. 12, ch. 91-223; s. 225, ch. 91-224; s. 1, ch. 92-281; s. 33, ch. 2004-11; s. 19, ch. 2008-238.
Note.–Former s. 918.14. 8O 8)
If it can be proved that Cindy told any of Casey’s friends not to talk to police or tried to induce anyone not to tell the truth during the investigation or actively got others to tell the police lies during an investigation then she could be charged with a life felony.
In one of the youtubes above (sorry lost track of it-) KC is in jail telling Lee that the password for something is TIMER55 — she spells it out. If scenario #1 is a possibility: 1. Jose didn’t pass squat to anybody and the JBP/timer55 story is entirely from the mind of Cindy. —– then where does this jail-visit-explanation-of-password fit into the scenario? Anybody?
William, I do hate to say it but I’m of the mind that none of the Anthony family will be charged with anything. I sure hope I’m wrong because they have lied to LE, destroyed evidence and broken laws, but as FRG says, they DO think they’re above them. I’m not sure why LE is so soft with them. Aren’t they setting an awful precedent?
Cindy Anthony thinks she is smarter than the OCSO and that she can out smart and out talk the FBI. Did she really think these guys wouldn’t compare notes? She is one scary woman. George, what were you thinking when you hooked up with her?
That’s what I can’t understand! I’m hoping they are waiting until after the trial, thus giving the whole bunch an opportunity to tell more lies on the witness stand. Then, they will be able to bring all of the charges against them that they deserve. I can’t imagine anyone getting away with all of the crazy of this bunch.
*Sorry – CRAZY BEHAVIOR
Maybe I was right the first time. Crazy. Period.
» Nauseated said: { Feb 12, 2010 – 08:02:44 }
Cindy Anthony thinks she is smarter than the OCSO and that she can out smart and out talk the FBI. Did she really think these guys wouldn’t compare notes? She is one scary woman. George, what were you thinking when you hooked up with her?
Nauseated, I noticed in the interview/TV links posted upthread how George is posturing and pursing his lips, like he’s trying to be something he clearly is not. I suppose it’s kind of like when animals will bare their teeth as a sign of aggression, but I’m sorry – it just is not convincing, George.
» angela_nw said: { Feb 12, 2010 – 08:02:06 }
In one of the youtubes above (sorry lost track of it-) KC is in jail telling Lee that the password for something is TIMER55 — she spells it out. If scenario #1 is a possibility: 1. Jose didn’t pass squat to anybody and the JBP/timer55 story is entirely from the mind of Cindy. —– then where does this jail-visit-explanation-of-password fit into the scenario? Anybody?
Remember, she had already been in and out of jail, and was back in again, so the JBP story could have already been set up. Please, someone, correct me if I’m wrong on the timeline.
» Mel said: { Feb 12, 2010 – 05:02:18 }
Mel, did #3 guy ‘have something’ on the CEO, perhaps, or was #3 related to a major stockholder? Sorry to have a suspicious mind, but I’ve worked in a bank for 20 years, and I know what kind of evidence one can glean from a fraud detection program. Also, did they not have auditors?
Valhall said: { Feb 12, 2010 – 07:02:08 }
The timer55 password was used UP UNTIL May 14th. Then the password was changed to rico23….according to the computer forensics report.
*****
I would make it clear that there is no mention of timer55 in the computer forensics reports. I do agree that it’s a possibility that timer55 was the HP “owner” user account password prior to 8:49am on May 14, but that’s a theory.
I’ve been slogging through the discovery trying to put together a timeline of all password discussions. I haven’t finished going through the discovery, but so far, the only mention I’ve found of timer55 early on (other than Cindy’s conspiracies to the FBI) is from Casey during the July 25 video visitation with George and Cindy when Casey said her Facebook password was timer55.
I had forgotten until today that Casey gave Kristina Chester her MySpace password and login during Casey’s July 16 call to the Anthony residence a few hours after her arrest. We don’t know what password and login Casey gave because that information was redacted from all the public discovery regarding that call that I’ve been able to find.
Any idea if maybe Muzikman got the original from the OC Clerk of Court and knows what that password information consisted of?
I think that the state is currently focused on convicting Casey, as they should be! I think any potential future prosecution of any other Anthony will depend on how badly they need their cooperation in Casey’s trial (since they may have to offer them immunity at some point). If no immunity, then I think that they may go after Cindy and/or Lee. I do not see them going after George.
Just my opinion.
Here in Northwest Arkansas said: Mel, did #3 guy ‘have something’ on the CEO, perhaps, or was #3 related to a major stockholder? Sorry to have a suspicious mind, but I’ve worked in a bank for 20 years, and I know what kind of evidence one can glean from a fraud detection program. Also, did they not have auditors?
The company is a private mid-size company. They did not have an internal audit department. They do have external auditors, but it rare for financial statement auditors to discover fraud (I know this because I was one of them for five years and I review the external audits when a company engages my services).
The CEO did not appear to be involved with the fraud. The CEO and the #3 guy did not appear to have any outside business or personal relationships. The company had a fairly small incentive plan and no stock offerings.
This type of company represents the majority of my business. They usually discover problems by accident. This often means some significant coin has already been lost by the time it is uncovered. I used to wonder why such companies bothered to call me in for an investigation, I came to the conclusion that these companies engage my services because they feel like they have to for various reasons (board pressure, wanting to do the right thing, employee complaints, etc.), but some companies really do not want me to find anything. Why?
Unfortunately, just like the Anthony family, these companies are pretty insular. They often want to avoid embarrassment. They prefer to close ranks rather than face the facts, correct their errors and improve themselves for the future. It is very sad to watch.
In Casey’s ‘driving back like a normal day’ interview with LE, she mentions how, after she waited on/by the steps for Zenaida to show up with Caylee (thinking ‘maybe it was a fluke’
, she drove to around to various stores and JBLANCHARD PARK, before going to to a ‘neutral place’ yada, yada, yada. I believe Casey having mentioned JBPark to the detectives early on (in her very first ‘version of events’ to detectives), is where Muffin Head extracted JBP and well, the rest is history.
On a separate note:
During one of Lee’s jailhouse visits to Casey, he asks her if he should ‘focus’ on places or people, she says something like “tell Mom to search in areas that are familiar to us – to our family”. A rather ODD statement, since none of the other Anthony’s ‘knew’ the phantom ZFG, therefore, how would they know of ‘places’ the 10 Nanny might frequent?
Regarding George and why he ‘stays with Cindy’.
In my OPINION, it is fairly simple. George is lazy, a moocher and it ‘s much easier for him to ‘endure’ Cindy, than to actually go and make something of his life…ADD to that, the fact that he is in deep sh*t – TOGETHER with Cindy – at this point, they are clinging to each other for survival (of the fittest!), until the outcome of this trial.
I would almost be willing to bet- that when this trial is over with, he and Cindy will be kaput, if not, BEFORE May-2011.
This case has so many twists, turns and ‘only in the movies’ story lines, I almost EXPECT for George and Cindy to turn on EACH OTHER at some point in time.
JMO
» Mel said: { Feb 12, 2010 – 10:02:36 }
I’ll bet you see all kinds of things, Mel. I am fascinated by true crime stories. I guess what catches my attention is that fact that people can even think up the things they do, and actually expect to get away with it! As you said, though, they do tend to close ranks. Hopefully, they will have dealt with #3 privately (or not). If someone was a ‘whistleblower’ that person was probably the one who was canned. I just do not understand the absolute GREED of people, and what it makes them do. How much is ever enough?
» WinterBelle said: { Feb 12, 2010 – 10:02:09 }
This case has so many twists, turns and ‘only in the movies’ story lines, I almost EXPECT for George and Cindy to turn on EACH OTHER at some point in time.
WinterBelle, I’d be willing to place a monetary wager on that one.
The lie telling of Cindy and Casey has been perfected over the years. They make up a story and tell it so many times that it actually becomes their reality. I’ve seen it happen with a close relative of mine. You then start to question yourself about the incident. Weird.
Val-
Here are the statutes Cindy, George and/or Lee should be concerned about (and not the statute that William referenced above, which is inapposite to the issues you presented).
It’s late here, so I don’t have the energy to explain in detail–and as you will see, some portions of these statutes do not apply (e.g. 777.03 (1)(a)–due to the familial relationships, but keep reading the other sections).
777.03 Accessory after the fact.–
(1)(a) Any person not standing in the relation of husband or wife, parent or grandparent, child or grandchild, brother or sister, by consanguinity or affinity to the offender, who maintains or assists the principal or an accessory before the fact, or gives the offender any other aid, knowing that the offender had committed a crime and such crime was a third degree felony, or had been an accessory thereto before the fact, with the intent that the offender avoids or escapes detection, arrest, trial, or punishment, is an accessory after the fact.
(b) Any person(SILVER NOTE: “ANY person”– so familial relationship is IRRELEVANT for this section of this statute) who maintains or assists the principal or accessory before the fact, or gives the offender any other aid, knowing that the offender had committed the offense of child abuse, neglect of a child, aggravated child abuse, aggravated manslaughter of a child under 18 years of age, or murder of a child under 18 years of age, or had been an accessory thereto before the fact, with the intent that the offender avoids or escapes detection, arrest, trial, or punishment, is an accessory after the fact unless the court finds that the person is a victim of domestic violence.
(c) Any person who maintains or assists the principal or an accessory before the fact, or gives the offender any other aid, knowing that the offender had committed a crime and such crime was a capital, life, first degree, or second degree felony, or had been an accessory thereto before the fact, with the intent that the offender avoids or escapes detection, arrest, trial, or punishment, is an accessory after the fact.
(2)(a) If the felony offense committed is a capital felony, the offense of accessory after the fact is a felony of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.
(b) If the felony offense committed is a life felony or a felony of the first degree, the offense of accessory after the fact is a felony of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.
(c) If the felony offense committed is a felony of the second degree or a felony of the third degree ranked in level 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, or 10 under s. 921.0022 or s. 921.0023, the offense of accessory after the fact is a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.
(d) If the felony offense committed is a felony of the third degree ranked in level 1 or level 2 under s. 921.0022 or s. 921.0023, the offense of accessory after the fact is a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.
(3) Except as otherwise provided in s. 921.0022, for purposes of sentencing under chapter 921 and determining incentive gain-time eligibility under chapter 944, the offense of accessory after the fact is ranked two levels below the ranking under s. 921.0022 or s. 921.0023 of the felony offense committed.
NEXT:
Perjury (and I believe I have posted about this topic here a while back, likely just after the time that the State motioned the court for access to George Anthony’s Grand Jury testimony, so I will refrain from further comment and simply post the entire chapter on this offense, some portions of which could clearly apply:
837.011 Definitions.–In this chapter, unless a different meaning plainly is required:
(1) “Official proceeding” means a proceeding heard, or which may be or is required to be heard, before any legislative, judicial, administrative, or other governmental agency or official authorized to take evidence under oath, including any referee, general or special magistrate, administrative law judge, hearing officer, hearing examiner, commissioner, notary, or other person taking testimony or a deposition in connection with any such proceeding.
(2) “Oath” includes affirmation or any other form of attestation required or authorized by law by which a person acknowledges that he or she is bound in conscience or law to testify truthfully in an official proceeding or other official matter.
(3) “Material matter” means any subject, regardless of its admissibility under the rules of evidence, which could affect the course or outcome of the proceeding. Whether a matter is material in a given factual situation is a question of law.
History.–s. 53, ch. 74-383; s. 316, ch. 96-410; s. 1823, ch. 97-102; s. 98, ch. 2004-11.
837.012 Perjury when not in an official proceeding.–
(1) Whoever makes a false statement, which he or she does not believe to be true, under oath, not in an official proceeding, in regard to any material matter shall be guilty of a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.
(2) Knowledge of the materiality of the statement is not an element of this crime, and the defendant’s mistaken belief that his or her statement was not material is not a defense.
History.–s. 2, ch. 1637, 1868; RS 2560; GS 3472; RGS 5341; CGL 7474; s. 997, ch. 71-136; s. 54, ch. 74-383; s. 32, ch. 75-298; s. 205, ch. 91-224; s. 1310, ch. 97-102.
Note.–Former s. 837.01.
837.02 Perjury in official proceedings.–
(1) Except as provided in subsection (2), whoever makes a false statement, which he or she does not believe to be true, under oath in an official proceeding in regard to any material matter, commits a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.
(2) Whoever makes a false statement, which he or she does not believe to be true, under oath in an official proceeding that relates to the prosecution of a capital felony, commits a felony of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084. (*** SILVER NOTE: this section would apply to their deposition testimony– it was given under oath and related to the prosecution of a capital felony, i.e. murder 1).
(3) Knowledge of the materiality of the statement is not an element of the crime of perjury under subsection (1) or subsection (2), and the defendant’s mistaken belief that the statement was not material is not a defense.
History.–s. 1, sub-ch. 6, ch. 1637, 1868; RS 2561; GS 3473; RGS 5343; CGL 7477; s. 998, ch. 71-136; s. 55, ch. 74-383; s. 33, ch. 75-298; s. 3, ch. 97-90; s. 1311, ch. 97-102.
837.021 Perjury by contradictory statements.–
(1) Except as provided in subsection (2), whoever, in one or more official proceedings, willfully makes two or more material statements under oath which contradict each other, commits a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.
(2) Whoever, in one or more official proceedings that relate to the prosecution of a capital felony, willfully makes two or more material statements under oath which contradict each other, commits a felony of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.
(3) In any prosecution for perjury under this section:
(a) The prosecution may proceed in a single count by setting forth the willful making of contradictory statements under oath and alleging in the alternative that one or more of them are false.
(b) The question of whether a statement was material is a question of law to be determined by the court.
(c) It is not necessary to prove which, if any, of the contradictory statements is not true.
(d) It is a defense that the accused believed each statement to be true at the time the statement was made.
(4) A person may not be prosecuted under this section for making contradictory statements in separate proceedings if the contradictory statement made in the most recent proceeding was made under a grant of immunity under s. 914.04; but such person may be prosecuted under s. 837.02 for any false statement made in that most recent proceeding, and the contradictory statements may be received against him or her upon any criminal investigation or proceeding for such perjury.
History.–s. 1, ch. 72-314; s. 56, ch. 74-383; s. 34, ch. 75-298; s. 2, ch. 85-41; s. 4, ch. 97-90; s. 1312, ch. 97-102.
837.05 False reports to law enforcement authorities.–
(1) Except as provided in subsection (2), whoever knowingly gives false information to any law enforcement officer concerning the alleged commission of any crime, commits a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.
(2) Whoever knowingly gives false information to a law enforcement officer concerning the alleged commission of a capital felony, commits a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.
History.–s. 57, ch. 74-383; s. 34, ch. 75-298; s. 206, ch. 91-224; s. 5, ch. 97-90.
837.055 False information to law enforcement during investigation.–Whoever knowingly and willfully gives false information to a law enforcement officer who is conducting a missing person investigation or a felony criminal investigation with the intent to mislead the officer or impede the investigation commits a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.
History.–s. 1, ch. 2006-142.
837.06 False official statements.–Whoever knowingly makes a false statement in writing with the intent to mislead a public servant in the performance of his or her official duty shall be guilty of a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.
History.–s. 58, ch. 74-383; s. 34, ch. 75-298; s. 207, ch. 91-224; s. 1313, ch. 97-102.
837.07 Recantation as a defense.–Recantation shall be a defense to any prosecution for perjury or false statement only if the person making the false statement admits such statement to be false in the same continuous proceeding or matter, and:
(1) The false statement has not substantially affected the proceeding; or
(2) Such admission is made before it has become manifest that such false statement has been or will be exposed.
History.–s. 1, ch. 90-126.
For those who wish to believe this family was simply in “denial” or simply grasping for hope in the beginning (as a way of explaining what is otherwise blatant criminal activity), please take some time and read their deposition testimony from last summer–and explain how they not only continued to spread their initial b.s., but also added heaps more of it to the pile.
Cindy continues to insist on the whole “Casey was giving clues” nonsense.
Added to that? She claims that SHE searched for “chlorophyll”–in an obvious effort to explain away the searches for “chloroform” (in all of its misspelled incarnations).
Lee continues to insist that one of Casey’s friends is the “real” “kidnapper”/”killer”.
Added to that? He tells bold lies about those friends, e.g. that Amy H. is/was a heroin user, and his motives for doing so could not be less R E P R E H E N S I B L E.
George — well… look. The State took the highly unusual step of motioning the court for permission to obtain a copy of his GJ testimony, for the reason that they believed there were MATERIAL discrepancies in his statements UNDER OATH from the GJ hearing to the deposition. (And for laughs– read Val’s discussion of his dep testimony re: the gas can incident.. and re: some other topic that made her go *blink…blink*
Were they still in “denial” by last summer?? Hoping to find a live Caylee????
Well– if you take THEIR word for it…
YES!!
And guess what else???!
They’d have you believe that they cremated the REMAINS of some child who was NOT Caylee without a single qualm or reservation or concern for the family members of whomever that child might be.
(Can you imagine admitting to such a MONSTROUS act???)
These people are not just defending Casey now.
They are in it up to their eyeballs.
(And all along I have suspected that this family maintains some dark secrets that none of us know– or may ever know, but they are “practiced at art of deception”– you can tell by their “blood stained hands”. Sorry to the Rolling Stones for quoting from Sympathy for the Devil, one of my all time favorite songs, but it seemed appropriate tonight after the Hop Devil Ales I enjoyed with dinner
Willow-
Baez is under no obligation to “adopt” any story.
He cannot avoid what Casey wrote in her initial statement/said on tape.
The stickier situation which he has to confront arises from Leonard P’s claim that Casey “adopted” the JBP scenario after she was bonded and spent that time with Cindy in the bathroom.
Remember though-
The defense does not have to prove her innocence.
They can merely attack the State’s case against her– and that is about the only way to handle her defense.
Attack the forensic evidence which the State claims ties Casey to Caylee’s murder.
They have a serious problem with controverting her observed behavior/the circumstances of Caylee’s “disappearance”, the circumstances of Casey’s lies and behavior, not only for the 31 days, but also in the time leading up to it (her attempts to circumvent responsibility for caring for Caylee, not only in terms of financial support, but also in terms of spending time with her instead of partying/socializing/texting/AIMing/etc), and then.. on the night of July 16th (the statements she made to the 9-1-1 dispatcher, her written statement, her statements in interviews with LE, all the lies, etc).. and her statements on tape afterward (that atrocious phone call home for Tony’s number; the jail visit videos; the behavior after having been bonded out, including the statements to Tracey M; the “eyeglasses game”; the statements to Annie D.– “I have so much to tell you when this is over”, etc)
I cannot say this enough, because reporters get it wrong ALL THE TIME (and so do some lawyers who comment on TV and haven’t spent enough time actually trying cases in court):
CIRCUMSTANTIAL EVIDENCE can be POWERFUL STUFF.
.
It is NOT inferior, as some would suggest, by any means.
In fact, it is often far more probative and reliable than, say, eyewitness testimony (which is often some of the most unreliable evidence around) (which was exposed brilliantly in the movie “My Cousin Vinny”
Woa…after reading Silver’s response I have to say that my uneducated guess is that after the trial of Casey Anthony, Cindy Anthony may be in multiple piles of deep shit.
Now, with that said, I have a “gut feel” – very much different than the “gut feel” Casey had – because this one is based on something akin to evidence, reality and a hunch that connects to something tangible…
Lee MAY have already brokered a deal and he’ll tell the truth on the stand.
George WILL tell the truth on the stand and admit he may have stated false statements in the past. His admission will impeach him, to some degree, but his reasoning will exonerate to a greater degree.
Cindy will go up in flames like a pack of Marlboros lit by a flaming-underwear-terrorist at 30,000 feet as the cabin decompresses. She’s a psychopathic liar. She’s the one Casey learned from. She’ll sit on that stand, be impeached and deny ever doing anything wrong, or making any of the false statements the prosecution will prove – in court with her sitting on the stand denying all the time and coming up with banal arguments like “I hadn’t slept in 42 days!” “I was constipated!”. Some one in the gallery (most likely Kathi Belich) will scream “Great Balls of Fire!” at the sight of her drawn out demise.
Then major misery will ensue in a whole new way for her.
Silver,
I think my next article will be the convictions based solely on circumstantial evidence. I’ve emailed you a couple of times, but I think it goes to an email you don’t read – or maybe you just don’t like me.
Would you be interested in assisting just a bit (I won’t burden you too much) in providing a review of a draft when I get it written up? If so, please email me (hit the contact above). If not – I understand!
I’ll just add this:
If you believed that your child had been kidnapped and that not only HER LIFE was hanging in the balance, but that the very LIVES of your one and only MOTHER and one and only FATHER were being THREATENED…
Would you not make REASONABLE attempts to get assistance TO SAVE your child’s LIFE?!
How would (pretending to/lying about) calling Jeffrey Hopkins and Juliet Lewis (who do not exist) HELP CAYLEE???
Would you not make A SINGLE attempt to warn your parents that they were in grave danger???!
How would (pretending to be) giving vague “clues” HELP PROTECT MOM AND DAD???
It isn’t as though Casey was being held captive somewhere!
She had NON-STOP opportunities to COMMUNICATE IN PRIVATE with family, friends, LE.. the WHOLE TIME.
She was ALONE with numerous people.
She had access to PEN AND PAPER and could have clandestinely written notes.
Cindy’s whole script/family being threatened scenario is about as believable as a soap opera story where someone’s evil twin (who somehow never existed before) is conjured up to be the one who killed the character’s ex, thereby providing the character with a defense to murder charges!
In her attempt to “fix” the holes in Casey’s Sawgrass story, Cindy has dug not only Casey a larger hole, but she has pushed Lee (and herself) into it in the process!
The fact that she is shameless about it– and worse, shameless about accusing everyone (from the OCSO detectives …to the media …to Tim Miller… to the public) of incompetence is what reveals the depth of her sociopathy.
Val-
Don’t get your hopes up too high. (Sorry if I caused some unfounded elation there).
There is no telling how the State will elect to handle the family members–whether they come clean on the stand at trial or not.
Clearly, for now, the focus is on the case against Casey, and for good tactical reasons, that is where is must be.
IMO, the decision to pursue charges against Cindy Anthony will depend on whether or not Dominic Casey reveals information about those searches of the area near the final crime scene.
As much as I enjoy to point out what can clearly be described as criminal behavior in this kind of forum, I have to say that I don’t believe the State will spend the resources to prosecute her unless they have a witness who can testify against her involvement beyond what her statements to LE/under oath.
I will also point out that it is possible the State will simply use George Anthony’s GJ testimony for the purpose of attacking his credibility at trial, though –again– because we are not privy to his GJ testimony, any assessment is mere speculation at this time.
Lee?
If he made a deal, then how the heck does one explain his deposition testimony??
Based on the content of all 3 deposition transcripts, my best guess is that no one made any deals before those depositions were taken.
p.s. Val-check your mail!
At the end of the day, the old tried truism of ‘Actions speak louder than words’, will be what does Casey (and her accessories) in. Casey’s actions during those 31 days are in direct contradiction to her being ‘frantic’ and ‘absolutely petrified’.
End of story…
Just another addition:
Lyon pretty much revealed the key defense strategy on her book promotion interview with one of the morning shows (was it The Today Show?) when she said that there is no evidence that Casey “KILLED her kid” and/or that there even was a “HOMICIDE” (emphasis on the words which show an “intentional” act).
They are clearly going to attack the State’s case on the forensics.
Cause of death could not be determined by Dr. G. (BTW-that is precisely how any competent criminal defense attorney would defend a client charged with an intentional homicide, and it is appropriate to test the State’s case on that ground).
Do people get convicted of homicide when a body has deteriorated to such an extent that a forensic pathologist cannot determine HOW they were killed? YES.
But generally, that is where the evidence of the behavior of the accused and other physical evidence comes into play. (And this defense team has Mt. Everest to deal with here, which– no matter what they say in interviews, they are certainly well aware of, so understand that they have a professional obligations to adhere to when they challenge the State’s case.) I am forever amazed at how much hatred is spewed at the lawyers. Our system allows for anyone accused of a crime to present a defense. Let’s be better than Nancy Grace, and use rational reasoning and intelligence to expose the holes in their arguments. It’s far more rewarding to win an argument on the merits than to resort to schoolyard name calling.
I just wanted to point out where the defense can go with strategy based on those comments by Lyon.
One road they can take? (which may or may not be their ultimate strategy, but they have little wiggle room here):
Argue to the jury that the State cannot meet their B of P that Caylee was intentionally killed,and merely suggest that the State cannot rule out an accidental death. From there, the jury could INFER that perhaps an accidental death occurred, even without Casey taking the stand (and even if they convict her on the murder charge, the defense can still present a cohesive picture during the penalty phase and Lyon can get to work on pressing those sympathy buttons that will be the key to saving Casey’s life).
Accidental death… afraid of the wrath of Cindy…panicked…. went into a state of denial… buried her pain… truly loved her daughter… misses her more than anyone could ever imagine… tortures herself every minute of every day… is truly sorry… blahblahblahhh.
OK–
Husband is wondering why I am not in bed with him!
G’Night and sweet dreams to all=)
Silver, thank you, though they aren’t words enough to say. And please know that not for one moment do I believe that the Anthony’s are in denial. I believe they well know their daughter murdered their grandchild, and have known this from the very beginning, but they are sick enough, or egotistical enough, to sweep that under the rug and for what purpose? Could it possibly be something as simple as for the sake of their own images that they would so abandon and betray a child whom they professed to love? Hogwash, I say, for a thousand times over they have so well proven how very little they actually loved this little girl! IMHO
As for Baez, he’s legally bound to defend her as though she were innocent, indeed, but surely his having secured Lyons speaks volumes as to that which he believes, and he must have some serious concerns about losing this case, no matter how loudly he speaks out against the “circumstantial evidence” that will surely get her life, if not even death, which is the whole purpose of Lyons, is it not, and not so much to help Baez prove Casey innocent, but to keep her alive.
The burden of proof always falls on the Prosecution, and in my honest opinion they have this in the bag. Should the Baez team happen to gain an acquittal, I’ll be eating those burning underwear, Val!
G’night, Silver. Good night all.
An example case:
http://www.law.fsu.edu/library/flsupct/73758/op-73758.pdf
I had already cited the statute that Silver cited in relation to Cindy and Dominic supposing that Cindy had influenced Dominic to mislead authorities by helping to dummy up evidence which tended to point toward someone else having put Caylee’s body in the swamp after Casey was arrested and in jail. It is true that Cindy or Lee could be charged as an accomplice after the fact in that scenario and also in these scenarios of valhall’s up thread.
I submit that Cindy could also be charged with tampering with a witness during an official investigation when she attempted to induce Casey’s friends not to talk to police. I further submit that she could be charged with tampering if she brow-beat George or Lee into helping to propagate a lie such as the smack down instead of answering police questions truthfully during the investigation.
The statute says attempting to do it is as bad as doing it – so her trying to brow-beat them is enough to cause tampering.
Since it is a capital crime. She would be charged with a life felony.
» Silverspnr said: { Feb 13, 2010 – 12:02:13 }
How would (pretending to/lying about) calling Jeffrey Hopkins and Juliet Lewis (who do not exist) HELP CAYLEE???
******************************************************************
Great point! When I first heard Casey tell the detectives about her having ‘only told Jeffrey Hopkins and Juliet Lewis’ (which we know don’t exist), that Caylee was missing, I wondered how Casey would have justified telling ‘only’ Jeffrey and Juliet Lewis (and none of her other daily contacts- Amy et al), HAD the detectives asked her, i.e., ‘why did you ONLY tell Jeffrey and Juliet and not close friends Amy, et al?)
While we probably all have countless ‘questions’ swirling in our heads about what Casey said and DIDN’T say…I will always wonder WHY, when the detectives asked her if she had told ‘her boyfriend Tony’ about Caylee ‘missing’, (of which she answered no)…why she wasn’t asked the next most logical question: W-H-Y- N-O-T???
********************************************************************
Off to catch some zzz’s…
I do not think that they will be charged for tampering, but the question was could they be so charged and I think that they could. Every time that Lee or Cindy propagated a lie to influence someone to change their story to police or not cooperate with police could be charged as a case of tampering with a witness.
Same with Cindy originally getting Lee to change his story to police and go along with the smack down in the park lie coming from Casey. If that happened, then Cindy tampered with Lee. Even if it didn’t happen (in that Lee refused to repeat the lie as proposed by Cindy) the mere fact that she tried to get him to do it is enough for tampering.
Just my opinion….
An example would be -
Cindy lies about the pizza in the car to Casey’s friends to explain the smell in the trunk and then tries to convince them to not talk to police out of loyalty to Casey. Using that lie is enough to charge tampering through false or misleading information. Or she lies about Casey being innocent and does the same behavior toward the friends. Or she tries to convince the friends that Casey was following a script provided in the park and then tries to convince them not to talk to police.
The point being every time that an Anthony tells a lie to another person who is likely to be talked to as a witness in an effort to get them to change their behavior toward police or to get them to propagate the lie to police can be charged as tampering with a witness, I should think.
Oh, yeah, and I do not see how that is the opposite of what valhall asked up thread.
That last was a joke, by the way. I know that inapposite doesn’t mean the opposite. It means that I used an inappropriate statute or one that was not in agreement with the points that val made.
8O
I have just come to the realization that this site is almost all female participants. I never thought much about it at first, but hit me in the head with a sledge enough times and things do start to seep in… Is blogging mostly a female thing? Am I weird for hanging around here? I am definitely outnumbered here!!! 8O
Lori@02/12/10 08.02.07, Lori I agree with you in everything you said about the Anthony’s and how they never once went out and looked for their own grand daughter. its real obvious that they knew that Caylee was dead, plain and simple. as for the stupid defense asking for the information on those who gave of their time and energy to look for that baby in the hot Florida sun, I think the judge should tell them NO and for them not to ask for that information again. if what I have been reading on some of the other sites is true, it won’t be too long before the Anthony’s and Jose Baez will be behind bars along with Casey. and Jose will be disbarred from ever practicing law ever again. these people need to pay for all of the crimes that they have committed and I hope it won’t be long in coming.
Don’t worry William Hill, we don’t bite and we’ve got your back at all times. you are ok with us blogging females.
Another thing I would like to know about is this, how is the defense going to stray away from the “SWORN STATEMENT” that Casey gave to LE in the beginning of this case? also, the Anthony’s have extorted money from people during the time other people were out looking for Caylee and they are still doing it now with their farce of a foundation. these people have committed so many crimes and all of them together should get them some serious prison time. I pray for the day when that happens and then our little angel can rest in peace. what gets me is that Cindy had the nerve to refer to herself as a grieving grand mother. this woman is the village IDIOT of Orlando and all of Florida.
Val, I would be very interested on an article regarding convictions based on circumstantial evidence. I wonder how many cases are on record of people who have been convicted on less circumstantial evidence than what is had against Casey. That would be a great read!
No one deserves to go down in flames over the cover-up more than Cindy. George is merely a dimwitted pawn and Lee is just so chicken shit afraid of Cindy’s wrath he’ll do as she tells him.
Hollywood must be shaking their collective heads over this. This truth (whatever it is) is truly stranger than fiction.
Before Silver and Val clock me a good one over this case (http://www.law.fsu.edu/library/flsupct/73758/op-73758.pdf), I better explain that I know it is not exactly on point and that it results in part of the statute being declared unconstitutional. It is an example of the kind of charging that I am alluding to above and nothing more. It is a bad example of someone actually being whacked by the statute since it resulted in an over turned conviction and an invalidation of part of the Florida Statute on tampering as it existed at the time (it has now been fixed).
I only cited it as a demonstration of how the state may perceive the Anthony family actions should they decide to do so.
Did I duck quickly enough or do I now have a shiner??
- Val –
Silver states she doesn’t believe the State will spend the resources to prosecute Cindy -”unless they have a witness who can testify against her involvement beyond what her statements to LE/under oath.”
I know the good people of Florida don’t want to waste any more tax dollars on this family. They should set up a “Prosecute Cindy” fund. I would contribute as would so many others across the country and around the world. Few things would bring us more satisfaction.
Hummm, in order to elicit the truth during trial, certain deals may be made, amnesty offered, which may well encourage Cindy to be more truthful, though I doubt that she can be; which is to say, I don’t think she’s capable, being near as sociopathic as Casey, which may be one of the reasons she’s been so forever protective of her daughter, and even in light of her grandchild’s death.
It takes a certain “personality” to lie so blatantly, to be so devious, so calculating, so defiant, under circumstances that would have the greater majority of us still so shattered.
How long has it been since we’ve seen a genuine tear shed over Caylee? I wonder.
When has she ever cried out loud for the sake of Caylee, that justice be served? She doesn’t. It’s always justice for Casey that she seeks, and what’s all the more sickening is that she would dare to seek justice for Casey on behalf of Caylee?
My God, my God, is there no end to this woman’s maddness?
Nauseated,
Under the circumstances I don’t know that I’d be tying ribbons around any trees or contributing to any funds, for as much as it just seems to me that doing the same would only further complicate the matter of Casey’s ability, within the state of Florida, to receive a fair trial, as well it would fuel/credence to Baez’s continuing complaints regarding the matter of seating an impartial jury and change of venue. I could well be wrong, and should it be so, I’d be the first to contribute to the convict Cindy cause.
pooh … add fuel to/give further credence to Baez’s continuing complaints ….
Okay then – AFTER Casey is convicted of murder – set up the fund. I don’t doubt any goal set will be met – even topped!
Nauseated,
You got it! Let’s hope though that no deals are made and that Cindy will be sitting right alongside her daughter on the bench, outside a cell, in shackles waiting to be escorted to a cell block.
Willow – The vision is making me giddy!
The whole Juliette Lewis issue is beyond comprehension. Not only does this person not exist, in Casey’s interview with LE at Universal, she tells them that she and Juliette “work together” as event coordinators. By this time, Melich has already checked out all of her stories and knows the truth about Juliette. So he asks her again if she and Juliette work together. She says yes. Then he asks for Juliette’s phone number. Of course, Casey says she doesn’t know it because Juliette has moved to New YOrk. Not two minutes before that she told him that they worked together! That’s when he tells her Juliette Lewis never worked at Universal. And all this talk of working together comes AFTER she’s already admitted to LE in the hallway that she doesn’t work there at all. The girl is sick in the head. She may not have a “mental defect” defense, but she certainly has a mental problem!
» Silverspnr said: { Feb 13, 2010 – 01:02:35 }
Agreed. Good post(s). Nice to see you.
Hummm, and please forgive me my ignorance, once again; but, couldn’t it be possible that the best witness the State has against Cindy is ….. Cindy, herself? Smack her upside the head with her myriad of inconsistent statements, to include but which are not limited to, Dead body, Pizza.
Silver: “but she has pushed Lee (and herself) into it in the process!” … and… “reveals the depth of her sociopathy.”
I’d go one further and call it her “depravity.” She has literally twisted her son into a felon. She is so sick she made him a “foot soldier” for her cause.
You almost (almost) can pity Lee, a young man with his life ahead of him, drowning in his mother’s cruelty and selfishness. She seems to care nothing about anyone or anything except for her crusade. And her holy grail is… Cindy Anthony.
I don’t even think this is about saving Casey. It’s about preserving herself and her ego.. at all costs. It’s a pathological need to get what she wants to the point of steamrolling over any human being who stands in her way. We’ve seen it with non-blood and we’ve seen it with her own blood.
George I don’t give a hoot about. He’s nothing but a lazy dumb loser and I hope he lies in the flea-infested bed he’s made ALL BY HIMSELF for the rest of his pitiful life.
I honestly don’t know why the family can’t be charged as the same time as Casey. Don’t criminals and their accomplices (before or after the fact) get charged many times en masse in this country? I think there’s plenty of evidence to show the Anthony involvement. Even though they are family. Even though, yes, Casey is the *big fish*. I think it could happen with the assistance of Dominic Casey’s recent state interview (and I believe it has already happened).
The state doesn’t have the resources, probably true. But the feds do. And they probably have some loose change lying around. The Anthonys lied to the feds, not good. And then there’s the RICO act which I believe has something to do with financial fraud.
I’m hoping for the sake of the people of Florida and everyone who has watched this case unfold with horror, and everyone who *thinks* they can get away with similar criminal activities, that these hideous people are charged with a vengeance.
They must be stopped.
Jennyb
Good post. But, I do agree with what Willow says: Cindy is the state’s best witness. Even if she is declared hostile. If she is up for charges, who knows if she would plead the fifth a million times. Nope, I say, let them them stew.
Hi WSH!
Yeah, maybe I’m a dreamer … lol … you and Willow are probably right on the mark. Well I pray they get their just desserts at some point before the afterlife where I am CERTAIN they will meet the heavy hammer.
I guess I can wait… sigh… (but her testimony on the stand will be must-see TV) and I’d hate to see us (her biggest fans) be denied the pleasure.
Plus, if the Anthonys are charged during or before the case goes to trial, it puts another scenario all too conveniently in the hands of the defense who can then cast additional suspicions onto the Anthonys, and way from their client. Doing anything like that now would seem to be a gift to the defense.
that was ‘away’-not way…
I knew that!
LOL…jennyb, then you must speak gibberish fluently as a second language, if you can read my posts!
Hmm… well I just read Sheaffer’s latest post and I understand what he’s saying. I’m confused though about them not being under oath. I thought all FBI, OSCO and attorney (M&M) interviews and depos were taken under oath.
Live and learn I guess.
And oh yeah WSH I’m fluent in gibberish… my own!
As far as I know the FBI interviews were not sworn to, but the OCSO interview was…that’s when Cindy kicked a fit and said something like “I didn’t know I was going to have to swear to something”. So concerning the OCSO interview, I’m confused on Mr. Sheaffers’ comments that they weren’t sworn statements.
WSH, Silver,Val, Maura … Should this make any sense to you at all:
I’m stuck, having just read Shaeffer’s post.
George nor Cindy have given any “sworn” (under oath) statements to LE?
Or would the contradictory statements they have made, not been under oath?
And would that mean that they have made no contraditory statements under oath, and what statements they have made under oath have not been contradictory?
What of the Grand Jury testimony? That was surely under oath, and thereafter questioned as to George’s conflicting statements made under oath, correct?
Or am I simply assuming too much and too dense to get this whole matter through my thick head?
Val, you said it better than I did at the same time I did, pretty much, huh?
Sigh.
Consider my last post to be pure jibberish; though I’m still so hardpressed to understand, having been down this road before and verified that near all statements made by the Anthony’s to LE were sworn to.
Cindy is a very slick liar. If you listen to her comments, she usually precedes them with “I think” or “I heard” or “maybe.” She very rarely comes out and says “This is definitely what happened, I know it for a fact, I have evidence, etc.” There are a few examples of times when she did this, but the majority of her comments are couched in opinion/inference/imagination phrases.
, they will have a case.
It’s difficult to prove that somebody intentionally mislead a criminal investigation with these kinds of comments.
If LE can prove that she intentionally destroyed evidence or advised somebody else to lie (NOT just “Casey is hinting that ZFG held her down at JBPark, so maybe we should all support that story” or “Casey told me xyz, so I believe her” or “In the past, Casey has done this, so I think this is why she is doing xyz now”
But, as slippery as Cindy is, it probably won’t be that easy.
This isn’t Cindy’s first time at the lying rodeo. She’s been manipulating people all of her life; she’s become very good at it (even though she’s not the brightest bulb in the lamp). She knows how to spin a web that is hard to follow and simply exhausts people so that they finally just let it go.
Personally, I believe completely that she intentionally mislead the investigators, her family, everybody. I believe she created the JBPark scenario and has been feeding suggestions to her murdering evilspawn daughter since day one. But, proving it will be much more difficult, especially since Cindy can always play the “I was a grieving grandma who was out of my mind with worry and fear” card.
One other thing: Cindy keeps mentioning her “child,” Casey. Casey is not a child. Casey is a grown woman who, at least as far as the rest of the world goes, is of legal age, perfectly capable of making her own decisions, choices, and facing the consequences of these actions. She was a grown woman when Caylee died. Yet, Cindy acts as if Casey is some defenseless teenager who just can’t take care of herself. Granted, Casey was a sponge who avoided responsibility at all costs. But, she was perfectly capable of taking care of herself, as evidenced by the fact that she always had SOMEPLACE to spend the night, SOMEBODY to pay for her expenses, and SOMEBODY to cover her a$$ when things went wrong. It’s not the conventional way of taking care of yourself, but, in the end, it worked for Casey.
One last thing: a lot of the blogs about this case started right after Casey was arrested the first time (July 16). I wonder if Cindy read any of them during those first days and maybe got ideas from some of the discussions? I am convinced she reads them even now, despite her comments about us “no-life bloggers.”
Although many of us have witnessed all the Ants, commit the crime of obstructing, tampering, lying, and clearly selling their souls to try and spare KC of paying the piper, I doubt they will ever be charged…
I cant see the state spending one penny more on the accused et al, to charge and convict these 3.
The Ants crimes accomodate the state, by offering very powerful circumstantial evidence, by showing the jury, how the family of the accused, lied, lied, and lied …
It will be clear to a jury, that families of accused who so obviously lie and manipulated, and interfere with an investigation, also believe the accused is guilty. This IMO will be powerful circumstantial evidence against KC.
The Ants sentence will be having to wake up everyday, knowing that their actions helped convict KC.
Unless DC has a first hand account of anything they did, I believe the state will not set out to prove warranted charges against the Ants..
By knowing DC was in the vacinity of the crime site, I strongly suspect that he found Caylee. That said, my question was always, did he or the Ants plant exculpatory evidence at the scen”? (Jesse’s or someone’s DNA or prints at the site)
I have wondered if this scenario is why the state is seeking a private meeting with the judge. This scenario would be a slam dunk for the state, and only in this case could I see the state charge and convict the Ants..
ChicagoJudy said: { Feb 13, 2010 – 08:02:03 }
The whole Juliette Lewis issue is beyond comprehension. Not only does this person not exist, in Casey’s interview with LE at Universal, she tells them that she and Juliette “work together” as event coordinators. By this time, Melich has already checked out all of her stories and knows the truth about Juliette. So he asks her again if she and Juliette work together. She says yes. Then he asks for Juliette’s phone number. Of course, Casey says she doesn’t know it because Juliette has moved to New YOrk. Not two minutes before that she told him that they worked together! That’s when he tells her Juliette Lewis never worked at Universal. And all this talk of working together comes AFTER she’s already admitted to LE in the hallway that she doesn’t work there at all. The girl is sick in the head. She may not have a “mental defect” defense, but she certainly has a mental problem!
*****
Judy, you’re confusing Casey’s 4:11am interview at the house with the 1:20pm interview at Universal. It’s true that Casey insisted Juliette was a real personduring the Universal interview, but most of the information you mentioned in your comment is in the first interview that happened before Yuri Melich went to Universal to check out her story.
Casey’s OCSO interview on July 16 at 4:11am in the Anthony house, pages 11-13:
Q You talked to Jeffrey, who else did you talk to?
A I talked to Juliette Lewis. She’s one of my co-workers at Universal.
Q She works…you still work at Universal?
A Yes.
Q What ah, what do you do at Universal?
A Event coordinator.
Q Okay. What is Juliette, what position is she? Where does she work?
A She’s also an event coordinator. We work in the same department.
Q You have a number for Juliette?
A Ooh off hand…I can’t think of one.
Q She in your Sim card?
A No she’s not. Some of them are recent numbers. Her number just changed because she just moved back up north. She…within the last two months has finished moving up to New York. She is sub-leasing her apartment.
Q So, Juliette…
A (Inaudible)
Q …doesn’t work at Universal anymore?
A No she does not.
Q When did she leave Universal?
A About two months ago.
Q Who else did you talk to about it?
A It’s been within that small group. I’ve tried to find out just information from people going out to different places. Like Fusion Ultra Lounge and a couple of bars that I know Zenaida had gone to downtown before to see if..just kind of random talk. If anybody heard about my nanny or talked to her lately.
Q Did you tell anyone specifically that Zenaida took your child?
A No. The only two people that I specifically told were Jeff and Juliette.
Q And you don’t have a number for Juliette?
A Not off hand, no I do not.
Q It’s not in your phone? Might be online?
A It’s definitely on line I know it’s on one of our old work sheets. Um, her old number, which could still be active I’m not sure if it is. But I know she does have a new number, which I just programmed into that new phone.
Q When was, when was the last time you talked to Juliette?
A. Hm, about three weeks ago. Shortly after this happened.
Q So, you talked to her after she left?
A Uh-huh. (Affirmative)
Q What’s the reason um, I asked you this before and I’ll ask you just for the record. What’s the reason you didn’t call the police before? Since right not we’re here because you grandparents or your parents asked you about the child and they were concerned, didn’t get an answer as to where the child was, they called the sheriff’s office.
A Uh-huh. (Affirmative)
*****
Yuri Melich checked the employment records at Universal a few hours later, then had Casey picked up by John Allen and Appling Wells for the trip to Universal so that Casey could take the detectives her office.
*****
Casey’s OCSO interview on July 16 at 1:20pm at Universal Studios, page 20:
Q [Jeffrey Hopkins] hasn’t been employed here since 2002. What about, ah, the girl?
A Juliette?
Q Yeah. What about her?
A She left two months ago – that’s exactly what she had told me.
Q Juliette Lewis never worked at Universal Studios.
Valhall said: { Feb 13, 2010 – 11:02:40 }
As far as I know the FBI interviews were not sworn to, but the OCSO interview was…that’s when Cindy kicked a fit and said something like “I didn’t know I was going to have to swear to something”. So concerning the OCSO interview, I’m confused on Mr. Sheaffers’ comments that they weren’t sworn statements.
*****
I haven’t read Sheaffer’s comments, but my understanding is the same as yours. Neither George nor Cindy were asked to take an oath for the FBI interviews (which were true interviews, not LE statements).
Cindy’s “timeline” interview with OCSO was an official statement, and it was spread over two days. She was not asked to swear at the end of her Friday, August 1 OCSO interview, but she was asked to swear at the end of her Monday, August 4 OCSO interview. She became quite flustered when Melich asked her to swear to the truth of her statements to OCSO, and she told Melich she had not been asked to take an oath the previous Friday.
George was not asked to take an oath for his July 24 interview because George initiated it – he called them and said he wanted to talk to the detectives. The detectives knew George had gone behind the backs of Cindy and Lee to meet with them, so it’s understandable they did not ask him to swear to the truth of what he told them that day. George’s August 4 “timeline” interview was an official statement, and he was asked to swear to the truth of his testimony at the end of the interview.
Thanks, Maura for clearing this up. I was really quite befuddled.
Val said,
“Cindy will go up in flames like a pack of Marlboros lit by a flaming-underwear-terrorist at 30,000 feet as the cabin decompresses. She’s a psychopathic liar. She’s the one Casey learned from. She’ll sit on that stand, be impeached and deny ever doing anything wrong, or making any of the false statements the prosecution will prove – in court with her sitting on the stand denying all the time and coming up with banal arguments like “I hadn’t slept in 42 days!” “I was constipated!”. Some one in the gallery (most likely Kathi Belich) will scream “Great Balls of Fire!” at the sight of her drawn out demise.”
WITCH: “Ohhhhhh — You cursed brat! Look what you’ve done! I’m melting! Melting! Oh — what a world — what a world! Who would have thought a good little girl like you could destroy my beautiful wickedness!? Ohhh! Look out! Look out! I’m going. Ohhhh! Ohhhhhh….”
(Val, I’m sorry…couldn’t help myself. You have it down so accurately, right down to the excuses she’ll use.)
The Juliette Lewis thing is interesting … I was just re-reading some of the emails Casey fabricated and sent to herself back in May ’08 from Katherine Hart, Cheryl Davis, Gabe Marsh, etc. Juliette Lewis is included as a CC in many of these emails with a, I assume, fictious yahoo account, and included in the scheduling of the event Casey was (not really) working at (Battle of the Bands).
I don’t know much about this beyond reading the emails this morning. I don’t know if these emails were found in Casey’s yahoo account by family after her arrest, or if Casey was printing out the emails in May to help convince her family that she was working.
I wonder if LE have ever tried to get into the yahoo accounts of those fake people, although I know that Juliette’s was disabled as of August ’08 (by who??).
It doesn’t matter if they were sworn to or not as far as the FBI goes.
TITLE 18 – CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE
PART I – CRIMES
CHAPTER 47 – FRAUD AND FALSE STATEMENTS
HEAD
Sec. 1001. Statements or entries generally
STATUTE
(a) Except as otherwise provided in this section, whoever, in any
matter within the jurisdiction of the executive, legislative, or
judicial branch of the Government of the United States, knowingly
and willfully -
(1) falsifies, conceals, or covers up by any trick, scheme, or
device a material fact;
(2) makes any materially false, fictitious, or fraudulent
statement or representation; or
(3) makes or uses any false writing or document knowing the
same to contain any materially false, fictitious, or fraudulent
statement or entry;
shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 5 years
or, if the offense involves international or domestic terrorism (as
defined in section 2331), imprisoned not more than 8 years, or
both. If the matter relates to an offense under chapter 109A, 109B,
110, or 117, or section 1591, then the term of imprisonment imposed
under this section shall be not more than 8 years.
(b) Subsection (a) does not apply to a party to a judicial
proceeding, or that party’s counsel, for statements,
representations, writings or documents submitted by such party or
counsel to a judge or magistrate in that proceeding.
(c) With respect to any matter within the jurisdiction of the
legislative branch, subsection (a) shall apply only to -
(1) administrative matters, including a claim for payment, a
matter related to the procurement of property or services,
personnel or employment practices, or support services, or a
document required by law, rule, or regulation to be submitted to
the Congress or any office or officer within the legislative
branch; or
(2) any investigation or review, conducted pursuant to the
authority of any committee, subcommittee, commission or office of
the Congress, consistent with applicable rules of the House or
Senate.
SOURCE
(June 25, 1948, ch. 645, 62 Stat. 749; Pub. L. 103-322, title
XXXIII, Sec. 330016(1)(L), Sept. 13, 1994, 108 Stat. 2147; Pub. L.
104-292, Sec. 2, Oct. 11, 1996, 110 Stat. 3459; Pub. L. 108-458,
title VI, Sec. 6703(a), Dec. 17, 2004, 118 Stat. 3766; Pub. L. 109-
248, title I, Sec. 141(c), July 27, 2006, 120 Stat. 603.)
HISTORICAL AND REVISION NOTES
Based on title 18, U.S.C., 1940 ed., Sec. 80 (Mar. 4, 1909, ch.
321, Sec. 35, 35 Stat. 1095; Oct. 23, 1918, ch. 194, 40 Stat. 1015;
June 18, 1934, ch. 587, 48 Stat. 996; Apr. 4, 1938, ch. 69, 52
Stat. 197).
Section 80 of title 18, U.S.C., 1940 ed., was divided into two
parts.
The provision relating to false claims was incorporated in
section 287 of this title.
Reference to persons causing or procuring was omitted as
unnecessary in view of definition of “principal” in section 2 of
this title.
Words “or any corporation in which the United States of America
is a stockholder” in said section 80 were omitted as unnecessary in
view of definition of “agency” in section 6 of this title.
In addition to minor changes of phraseology, the maximum term of
imprisonment was changed from 10 to 5 years to be consistent with
comparable sections. (See reviser’s note under section 287 of this
title.)
AMENDMENTS
2006 – Subsec. (a). Pub. L. 109-248 inserted last sentence in
concluding provisions.
2004 – Subsec. (a). Pub. L. 108-458 substituted “be fined under
this title, imprisoned not more than 5 years or, if the offense
involves international or domestic terrorism (as defined in section
2331), imprisoned not more than 8 years, or both” for “be fined
under this title or imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both” in
concluding provisions.
1996 – Pub. L. 104-292 reenacted section catchline without change
and amended text generally. Prior to amendment, text read as
follows: “Whoever, in any matter within the jurisdiction of any
department or agency of the United States knowingly and willfully
falsifies, conceals or covers up by any trick, scheme, or device a
material fact, or makes any false, fictitious or fraudulent
statements or representations, or makes or uses any false writing
or document knowing the same to contain any false, fictitious or
fraudulent statement or entry, shall be fined under this title or
imprisoned not more than five years, or both.”
1994 – Pub. L. 103-322 substituted “fined under this title” for
“fined not more than $10,000″.
CHANGE OF NAME
Reference to United States magistrate or to magistrate deemed to
refer to United States magistrate judge pursuant to section 321 of
Pub. L. 101-650, set out as a note under section 631 of Title 28,
Judiciary and Judicial Procedure.
MISCELLANEOUS
SHORT TITLE OF 2004 AMENDMENT
Pub. L. 108-275, Sec. 1, July 15, 2004, 118 Stat. 831, provided
that: “This Act [enacting section 1028A of this title, amending
sections 641 and 1028 of this title, and enacting provisions listed
in a table relating to sentencing guidelines set out as a note
under section 994 of Title 28, Judiciary and Judicial Procedure]
may be cited as the ‘Identity Theft Penalty Enhancement Act’.”
SHORT TITLE OF 2003 AMENDMENT
Pub. L. 108-21, title VI, Sec. 607(a), Apr. 30, 2003, 117 Stat.
689, provided that: “This section [amending section 1028 of this
title] may be cited as the ‘Secure Authentication Feature and
Enhanced Identification Defense Act of 2003′ or ‘SAFE ID Act’.”
SHORT TITLE OF 2000 AMENDMENT
Pub. L. 106-578, Sec. 1, Dec. 28, 2000, 114 Stat. 3075, provided
that: “This Act [amending section 1028 of this title, repealing
section 1738 of this title, and enacting provisions set out as
notes under section 1028 of this title] may be cited as the
‘Internet False Identification Prevention Act of 2000′.”
SHORT TITLE OF 1998 AMENDMENTS
Pub. L. 105-318, Sec. 1, Oct. 30, 1998, 112 Stat. 3007, provided
that: “This Act [amending sections 982, 1028, and 2516 of this
title and section 105 of the Ethics in Government Act of 1978, Pub.
L. 95-521, set out in the Appendix to Title 5, Government
Organization and Employees, and enacting provisions set out as
notes under section 1028 of this title and section 994 of Title 28,
Judiciary and Judicial Procedure] may be cited as the ‘Identity
Theft and Assumption Deterrence Act of 1998′.”
Pub. L. 105-172, Sec. 1, Apr. 24, 1998, 112 Stat. 53, provided
that: “This Act [amending section 1029 of this title and enacting
provisions set out as a note under section 994 of Title 28,
Judiciary and Judicial Procedure] may be cited as the ‘Wireless
Telephone Protection Act’.”
SHORT TITLE OF 1996 AMENDMENT
Section 1 of Pub. L. 104-292 provided that: “This Act [amending
this section, sections 1515 and 6005 of this title, and section
1365 of Title 28, Judiciary and Judicial Procedure] may be cited as
the ‘False Statements Accountability Act of 1996′.”
SHORT TITLE OF 1994 AMENDMENT
Section 290001(a) of Pub. L. 103-322, as amended by Pub. L. 104-
294, title VI, Sec. 604(b)(34), Oct. 11, 1996, 110 Stat. 3508,
provided that: “This section [amending section 1030 of this title]
may be cited as the ‘Computer Abuse Amendments Act of 1994′.”
SHORT TITLE OF 1990 AMENDMENT
Pub. L. 101-647, title XXV, Sec. 2500, Nov. 29, 1990, 104 Stat.
4859, provided that: “This title [see Tables for classification]
may be cited as the ‘Comprehensive Thrift and Bank Fraud
Prosecution and Taxpayer Recovery Act of 1990′.”
SHORT TITLE OF 1989 AMENDMENT
Pub. L. 101-123, Sec. 1, Oct. 23, 1989, 103 Stat. 759, provided
that: “This Act [amending section 1031 of this title, repealing
section 293 of this title, enacting provisions set out as notes
under sections 293 and 1031 of this title, and repealing provisions
set out as a note under section 293 of this title] may be cited as
the ‘Major Fraud Act Amendments of 1989′.”
SHORT TITLE OF 1988 AMENDMENT
Pub. L. 100-700, Sec. 1, Nov. 19, 1988, 102 Stat. 4631, provided
that: “This Act [enacting sections 293 and 1031 of this title and
section 256 of Title 41, Public Contracts, amending section 2324 of
Title 10, Armed Forces, and section 3730 of Title 31, Money and
Finance, enacting provisions set out as notes under sections 293
and 1031 of this title, section 2324 of Title 10, and section 522
of Title 28, Judiciary and Judicial Procedure, and repealing
provisions set out as a note under section 2324 of Title 10] may be
cited as the ‘Major Fraud Act of 1988′.”
SHORT TITLE OF 1986 AMENDMENT
Pub. L. 99-474, Sec. 1, Oct. 16, 1986, 100 Stat. 1213, provided
that: “This Act [amending section 1030 of this title] may be cited
as the ‘Computer Fraud and Abuse Act of 1986′.”
SHORT TITLE OF 1984 AMENDMENT
Pub. L. 98-473, title II, Sec. 1601, Oct. 12, 1984, 98 Stat.
2183, provided that: “This chapter [chapter XVI (Secs. 1601-1603)
of title II of Pub. L. 98-473, enacting section 1029 of this title
and provisions set out as a note under section 1029 of this title]
may be cited as the ‘Credit Card Fraud Act of 1984′.”
Pub. L. 98-473, title II, Sec. 2101, Oct. 12, 1984, 98 Stat.
2190, provided that: “This chapter [chapter XXI (Secs. 2101-2103)
of title II of Pub. L. 98-473, enacting section 1030 of this title
and provisions set out as a note under section 1030 of this title]
may be cited as the ‘Counterfeit Access Device and Computer Fraud
and Abuse Act of 1984′.”
SHORT TITLE OF 1982 AMENDMENT
Section 1 of Pub. L. 97-398 provided: “That this Act [enacting
sections 1028 and 1738 of this title and amending section 3001 of
Title 39, Postal Service] may be cited as the ‘False Identification
Crime Control Act of 1982′.”
Any lie is going to cost you 5 years and a fine. Each instance of lying can be charged separately and the time can be ran consecutive and the fines can be additive. So Cindy could be looking at significant federal time depending on how many lies she told.
Isnt Lying LE a criminal offence (sworn or not?)
Amanda, The thing about yahoo is that you and I (or anyone else for that matter) can set up an email account under any name we would like. I can be myself, my boss and 3 different co-workers at the same time.
I read here every day, but don’t actually talk much, by the time I get on here and read through the whole thread everything I would have said has been said and I’ve learned something new, so then I’m off pondering that new info.
This site is great and I believe there are a good 3 or 4 of you that could have figured this case out and sealed the deal long ago if had the opportunity. I can’t believe how rediculous this case has been and I’m sure will continue to get. It amazes me how I can read about the goings on every day and still learn something new and be suprised at what I have read. WOW…..I couldn’t pay for a better read, like many of you have said, this is like a mystery novel, soap opera, blockbuster movie all in one.
If it weren’t for the reality of it all, I’d say these people *should* be getting paid for their imaginative writings. Sadly though, they are getting paid and it’s off the blood money from their beautiful grand daughter Caylee Marie. They sure never deserved the blessing of children, let alone grand children.
Also, I read on blink’s site someone said that Caylee was not the Anthony’s first grandchild, what do you all think of that? Hogwash, or what happened to the first baby? Does this go with Lee saying “is this like the last time?” or what?
It is a first degree misdemeanor under state law to lie to the police in Florida. Generally charged under 843.02 – resisting an officer without violence.
So with reading more on BOC, I’m seeing that they are coming to the conclusion that this is probably all rubish.
I was just thinking with that statement from LEE, was KC one of those girls that maybe hid a pg, delivered on her own and discarded the baby and mommy and daddy helped her get away with it? That maybe this is why she thought she could get away with murdering Caylee.
Like I said above, nothing would suprise me with this case. I’m sure it’s my wild mind running like crazy, but again….wouldn’t put anything passed thse people. There has to be some “compelling” (as Biaz puts it) that she thought she could get away with this and there is something that this family is trying to hide…..what is that something that they so desperatly do not want out?
Ronda,
With Lee’s question “was this like the last time?” I have wondered something similar — if Casey had in fact had another baby, killed it shortly after birth, and her parents covered for her. Nothing would surprise me, either.
» amanda said: { Feb 13, 2010 – 01:02:10 }
The Juliette Lewis thing is interesting … I was just re-reading some of the emails Casey fabricated and sent to herself back in May ‘08 from Katherine Hart, Cheryl Davis, Gabe Marsh, etc. Juliette Lewis is included as a CC in many of these emails with a, I assume, fictious yahoo account, and included in the scheduling of the event Casey was (not really) working at (Battle of the Bands).
**************************************************************
Hello,
I was wondering if you would be so kind as to share a ‘link’ where these emails can be accessed?
I could use some ‘entertainment’ reading during my insomniac filled nights
Than you
Than you/ ThanK you
Amanda:
could you tell me where you found those emails between kc and herself please?
They are mentioned in valhall’s time line. You can find which files they are in by searching on email on that article.
Aside from manipulating Lee and the public into the JBP and Timer55 fantasy, I believe that Cindy is guilty of another very big “story” which was constructed for the purpose of eliciting sympathy for the grieving grandparents. I would be willing to bet that George’s trip to the motel was a farce designed to look like a suicide attempt. At the time I remember thinking,
“Well, forgive me if I’m wrong but I just don’t buy it. Just more Anthony circus time.”
I don’t think there is anything she would NOT try in order to get her way. Be it Jesse spending the rest of his life in jail or allowing George some hope that Caylee would be home for her birthday when she knew that was impossible IMO…she just doesn’t care who she hurts or what happens to them as long as her manipulations are met with her own success.
Along those lines, I believe that she let those 31 days go by with some relief in her OWN mind, just as Casey did. Life was certainly quieter and less confrontational until the damn car showed up. Cindy didn’t put up much of a fight when she was being told that Caylee was always indisposed and could never come to the phone to speak with her. (I think I would have called the police after 2 weeks went by and I was getting the feeling that my daughter was just “putting me off.” A child of 3 is not “always busy or sleeping or doing something else, somewhere else, with someone else.) No, I would have given a deadline to speak with Caylee and stuck with it. Cindy behaved much as Casey did, IMO.
I just read over all the hallmarks of a sociopath again and I’d have to be convinced by an expert that she isn’t one.
Silverspnr said: For those who wish to believe this family was simply in “denial” or simply grasping for hope in the beginning (as a way of explaining what is otherwise blatant criminal activity), please take some time and read their deposition testimony from last summer–and explain how they not only continued to spread their initial b.s., but also added heaps more of it to the pile.
I have made a few posts about Cindy being in denial. Being in denial and lying through your teeth are not mutually exclusive. It is clear that the entire Anthony family has lied over and over again. I think Cindy’s motivation to lie in this case is because she cannot accept her precious little psychopath murdered Caylee. There is overwhelming evidence that KC killed Caylee, but Cindy just denies, denies, and denies this unfortunate fact. She will never accept the truth. Cindy will not even accept the fact that Caylee is dead as evidenced by her nonsense about the number of teeth listed in the autopsy report.
Cindy and Casey are completely pathetic human beings. They have lied and bullied their way through life. George and Lee are not much better with their lying and lack of backbone.
Mel, I’ll just say that Cindy told one of Casey’s male friends that she was a sociopath and warned him against the friendship. She let her parents, the Pleseas, attend Casey’s non-graduation, basically tricked them into schlepping to the event and the party afterwards — all the while knowing it was a farce. First thing she said to Tony was that Casey would rob him blind if she got the chance.
Doesn’t seem like she thought too much of the *mother of the year* but she’s always lied and continues to lie.
I don’t know about the morphing of lying and denial but in the Anthony case it seemed to have started way before Cindy smelled the death-mobile so I’d have to disagree on the denial theory.
Valhall….
you really should do an article about why Cindy and George do not love Lee. It just seems that they play favorites and Casey came out on top everytime. Wonder if Lee will ever win their love?
Whether any f the statements made to LE were sworn or not depends on whether Florida gives LE the right to administer an oath. If so, then they were under oath. If not, then they were not under oath. Police lie during investigations all of the time. It is a tactic that is accepted. The oath administered may have been an example of this lying as an investigative tool. Maybe not. I will see if I can find authority for police to administer an oath.
LE does NOT have authority to administer an oath in the state of Florida.
92.50 Oaths, affidavits, and acknowledgments; who may take or administer; requirements.–
(1) IN THIS STATE.–Oaths, affidavits, and acknowledgments required or authorized under the laws of this state (except oaths to jurors and witnesses in court and such other oaths, affidavits and acknowledgments as are required by law to be taken or administered by or before particular officers) may be taken or administered by or before any judge, clerk, or deputy clerk of any court of record within this state, including federal courts, or before any United States commissioner or any notary public within this state. The jurat, or certificate of proof or acknowledgment, shall be authenticated by the signature and official seal of such officer or person taking or administering the same; however, when taken or administered before any judge, clerk, or deputy clerk of a court of record, the seal of such court may be affixed as the seal of such officer or person.
(2) IN OTHER STATES, TERRITORIES, AND DISTRICTS OF THE UNITED STATES.–Oaths, affidavits, and acknowledgments required or authorized under the laws of this state, may be taken or administered in any other state, territory, or district of the United States, before any judge, clerk or deputy clerk of any court of record, within such state, territory, or district, having a seal, or before any notary public or justice of the peace, having a seal, in such state, territory, or district; provided, however, such officer or person is authorized under the laws of such state, territory, or district to take or administer oaths, affidavits and acknowledgments. The jurat, or certificate of proof or acknowledgment, shall be authenticated by the signature and official seal of such officer or person taking or administering the same; provided, however, when taken or administered by or before any judge, clerk, or deputy clerk of a court of record, the seal of such court may be affixed as the seal of such officer or person.
(3) IN FOREIGN COUNTRIES.–Oaths, affidavits, and acknowledgments, required or authorized by the laws of this state, may be taken or administered in any foreign country, by or before any judge or justice of a court of last resort, any notary public of such foreign country, any minister, consul general, charge d’affaires, or consul of the United States resident in such country. The jurat, or certificate of proof or acknowledgment, shall be authenticated by the signature and official seal of the officer or person taking or administering the same; provided, however, when taken or administered by or before any judge or justice of a court of last resort, the seal of such court may be affixed as the seal of such judge or justice.
History.–s. 1, ch. 48, 1845; RS 1299; GS 1730; RGS 2945; CGL 4669; s. 1, ch. 23156, 1945; s. 7, ch. 24337, 1947; s. 15, ch. 73-334; s. 3, ch. 76-237; s. 1, ch. 77-77; s. 22, ch. 78-361; s. 1, ch. 78-379.
Note.–Former s. 90.01.
http://www.flsenate.gov/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0092/SEC50.HTM&Title=-%3E2004-%3ECh0092-%3ESection%2050
8O
Has anyone ever given thought to the fact that maybe Cindy created the whole BP sceniro to save face for her and George? By creating the possibility that this could have had happenened to little Caylee it puts her, George and Casey in a different light? What I mean by this is that I feel like everyone else, Casey is guilty of murdering Caylee, but how would it make Cindy LOOK in the public eye given the fact that her precious grandaughter LIVED in her home? What decent grandparent would have continued the farse of lies given to her by Casey as to the whereabouts of their grandbaby? I feel IMO these lies were put in place for not only protecting Casey but to also take away negative public opinions of the family…we have seen what the Ants will do to present themselves as something they are not by covering up, telling lies and putting on fronts for the public preception probably even in their everyday life with friends and co-workers. I just do not feel that Cindy’s motives were entirely about Casey, I just can’t see it. What I can see is that NOTHING on her part has been about little Caylee Marie.
While re-listening to Casey’s interviews, reading her statements, etc., it re-confirms what I am so convinced about, regarding one particular facet of Casey. Although she was ‘only’ 22 at the time of her arrest, she is a keen observer of human behaviour. She KNOWS what is acceptable in society (not that she holds herself to that acceptance), however, in making up her fake ‘persona’, all the details she includes, attending Valencia, being an event planner, money in the bank, single mom, paying a nanny’ etc., are all actions and behaviour of what society deems not only acceptable, but ADMIRABLE, thus, her making up (and she’s good at it, til caught) this other ‘person’.
I mean, she knows if she told people the truth, i.e., I live at home, I don’t have a job, I didn’t graduate’, that people/society/her friends, would not only deem this unacceptable, they would not ‘like’ her, and in all probability, would probably SHUN her, therefore, not only does she know what to say, she knows the ‘actions’ that one would expect to ‘see’ , given the details (lies) she has divulged. When she would show up at Tony’s with groceries (via stolen money), this was part of the ‘actions’, or ‘proof’ (having money to buy groceries, etc.) that are associated with having a job. Another example, when she would IM or text with others, she would include scenarios like ‘my coworker just walked into my office’, or, she would lie about ‘working from home’. Why? Because she KNOWS these are actions associated with these scenarios when they are actually true, and/or, because these actions ‘working from home’ are what SHE admired in others (and rightfully so!), and what SHE coveted.
What I don’t understand is, since she is a CONNIVING observer of human behaviour (and in her case, their ‘weaknesses’
, she knows what is acceptable and what ‘words’ to use (at the right time, and on the fly), what she doesn’t know, or rather, what she simply can’t ‘emulate’ is REMORSE, SADNESS,SORROW, EMOTIONAL PAIN, etc. As I re-listened to some of the interview tapes (we’re all familiar with them, I think), when she makes such statements as ‘I’m absolutely petrified’ or ‘I’m scared I’ll never see my daughter again, and I don’t want to think about that’, the inflection in her voice is, well, there is none, it sounds as if she’s talking about her dress size. What I can’t wrap my brain around is, if she KNOWS what (acceptable) ‘words’ to use, or rather, she knows what one WOULD in all probability, (and others would expect to hear), say in this scenario if it were true, how, or WHY rather, does she not ‘know’ or think, to ‘fake’ her voice, with some semblance of grief stricken ‘inflection’? Does that make sense to anyone (I realize, I may not be conveying what I am trying to express). Why doesn’t Casey change her voice to reflect an ‘Oh my gosh, lord help me, my daughter is missing!’ (maybe not those exact words, but I think you catch my drift)…Surely, as she herself has stated, sh ‘has seen movies’, or has simply, experienced life to know that people don’t speak in a ‘normal voice’ , especially when discussing something as heart wrenching and inconceivable as discussing details of when one last saw their beloved.
I can only assume that the most probable answer is ‘because she is a sociopath and she can’t feel these emotions’, of which, I don’t think anyone who has observed, read or listened to Casey could/would deny , or conclude (that she is in fact, a sociopath).
To that end, how is it then, that Casey knows ‘what to say’ (aka LIE), to come off as believable (to an extent), yet, she doesn’t know, or think, that she SHOULD change her voice to reflect what she is saying (her lying version of events)? I just don’t get it…
*Please note that I’m not saying she should ‘fake’ her voice because I want her to get away with it (obviously, I don’t), but I’m more in questions as to how does she not know, that her voice inflection SHOULD match her words, since she is so good at ‘portraying’ others)??
In her Universal interview, before it concludes (I’m referring to the ending of what I believe, is THE ending of all parts of her Universal interview), she states such BS as “sorry for giving you guys the run around’ , ‘Ill offer up my computer in a heartbeat’ etc., she KNOWS (or thinks, rather), that by her saying the ‘right’ words (in her mind), that the detectives are perhaps, going to see her in a ‘different light’ (I picture the detectives almost falling down from dizziness of her WTH replies). Truth be told, I think SHE thought, that by her apologizing for ‘giving them the run around’ , etc., they were going to think ‘oh wow, she’s admitting she gave us the runaround’, which would make them say to Casey (in her mind), ‘ sorry we were grilling you, we see how honest you are being, we were wrong in grilling you’ (or something along those lines)…
So…
When I hear other statements made about Casey, such as ‘Casey was very sweet’ Casey was ‘nice’ (my memory draws a blank at the moment, regarding WHO made these statements, but I did read them somewhere, from someone that knew Casey) and I’m not referring to any statements that Cindy has made, such as the ever nauseating ‘Casey loved THAT child, I could see it in her eyes’ BS (Argh).
Sorry if it’s taken me a while to ‘splain’ what I mean, or, convey what I wonder about…but…If Casey couldn’t ‘change’ (fake) her voice (remember, I’m referring to her ‘voice’ , not her choice of words), when describing ‘petrified’ etc., to the detectives, HOW, could she ‘fake off’ to her friends that she was ‘caring’ or ‘nice’? Aside from ‘fake’ actions she exhibited, for example making Amy believe, by verbalizing (and via texting, where ‘emotion’ is not ‘heard’
, that she (Amy) would soon be moving in with Casey. Did Casey ‘FAKE’ her voice when lying about such matters as these (or other matters/LYING SCENARIOS)?
How could any of her friends NOT realize, if and when, Casey spoke in that monotone voice of hers, that the inflection in her voice didn’t ‘match’ her words (regardless of what those words/lies, were)? Or, did Casey perhaps ‘FAKE’ her voice when stating lies to her friends, to the point that she was believable? If so, why could she ‘fake’ her voice (given that she is a sociopath), when recounting one ‘scenario’ (set of lies) to her friends (if indeed she did), yet not be able to ‘fake’ it in others, such as, while speaking to detectives?
Apologies for my long post, perhaps I should have just kept this to myself, but it is something I ponder (more often than I should)!
Thank you
Im not sure the Ants were worried about saving face. I think it is all about saving KC in spite of the truth that she killed her own child. Im not sure anything could look worse than for CA too…
Acknowledge that the vehicle that is supposed to be transporting a 2 yr old in a different city, is in a tow yard smelling of death, and containing the carseat and fav toy, where the child has been concealed for a month..yet go bak to work..
At work, have to be told, by 2 levels of authority, to call police, and go home.
Then go home, wash the evidence, tamper, and obstruct, talk to KC, then go on a search to find the mother and when she finds KC, not even ask anyone if they have seen Caylee….
Then spend the next approx 5 hours with the perp, before telling 911, a 2 yr old is missing…
I just cant see anything here, that CA et al, knew Caylee was dead, that very day, and only worried about finding KC before LE did, so to start the lies to cover up what she knew, her daughter did….
I believe the biggest example of her fake voice is when Christina came on the phone when KC called and wanted Tony’s phone number. To me that was as fake of a voice and tone a person could get. “Oh sweetheart, you know that I love you, blah blah blah…I am paraphrasing but it was similar to that. I understand exactly what you are saying and I agree she should have been on the floor in a fetal position screaming and crying that she can’t take it anymore, Zanny kidnapped her child and I am so glad the police are involved now, so maybe I can get some help in finding my child. But then if you go back and see her on the stripper poles dancing away with not a care in the world…you know she just doesn’t have a soul. She is smart in some ways but she wasn’t smart enough to act upset when the police were questioning her. I truly believe that she thought she would get away with it by trying to use her so called big words and statements, they would believe her just like her mother always has. She wasn’t smart enough to realize that total strangers would care more about finding her daughter than she or her family would. So she might be smart in fooling young adults but she isn’t smart enough to fool the police or the rest of the world. You have to remember she lives in her own little fantasy world where everything always worked out, so why wouldn’t it now!
Hi WB – those are some great thoughts you’ve got there. It is extremely odd the way both Casey and Cindy have the same perceptivity disconnect. Cindy’s been walking this earth a lot longer than her daughter and yet she couldn’t even look into the camera and plead to the “nanny” to return her precious granddaughter?
She spent all of those initial interviews whining about her lack of sleep and food and “don’t ask me any hard questions or I’ll collapse on the floor but you’d probably like that because it’s good for ratings” and the rest.
Cindy spent all of her time not searching and praising her daughter and blaming everyone else she could think of.
This was not normal appropriate behavior. Why didn’t she realize that?
It is such a mystery! Cindy’s even worse than Casey in this regard I think. She doesn’t even mouth the words. At least Casey, in her atonal flatness, tries to come up with something resembling what a person in her position should be saying: “Everyone cares about Caylee… that’s all they care about is Caylee… AND SO DO I.
OK so late and no cigar but she said it.
There’s something wrong with both of them. I am amazed they haven’t and can’t just fake some feelings for public consumption. The only thing they show is concern for themselves. WEIRD~
val; again congratulations on another genius post–if cindy etc get off wouldn’t this give other narcissitic sociopathic families justifiable means-i pray for cindy’s demise and btw how could an attorney represent these people ? bringing me to the question ‘where is brad conway?
WinterBelle
Yes! I totally understand what you are saying. My first thought is that is more than likely how the Anthonys showed their emotions as a family…Casey always lied, so therefore prior to Caylee, who knows if there was ever an occasion that required true emotion, no lies, just true emotion. Was Casey and Lee brought up and trained this way? Casey covered her emotions by lies and Lee found laughter in everything. Totally understand your thoughts. Great post.
Narcissistic personality disorder
By Mayo Clinic staff
Original Article:http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/narcissistic-personality-disorder/DS00652/DSECTION=symptoms
* Definition
* Symptoms
* Causes
* Risk factors
* Complications
* Preparing for your appointment
* Tests and diagnosis
* Treatments and drugs
* Lifestyle and home remedies
* Prevention
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Definition
Narcissistic personality disorder is a mental disorder in which people have an inflated sense of their own importance and a deep need for admiration. Those with narcissistic personality disorder believe that they’re superior to others and have little regard for other people’s feelings. But behind this mask of ultra-confidence lies a fragile self-esteem, vulnerable to the slightest criticism.
Narcissistic personality disorder is one of several types of personality disorders. Personality disorders are conditions in which people have traits that cause them to feel and behave in socially distressing ways, limiting their ability to function in relationships and in other areas of their life, such as work or school.
Narcissistic personality disorder treatment is centered around psychotherapy.
Symptoms
Narcissistic personality disorder is characterized by dramatic, emotional behavior, in the same category as antisocial and borderline personality disorders.
Narcissistic personality disorder symptoms may include:
* Believing that you’re better than others
* Fantasizing about power, success and attractiveness
* Exaggerating your achievements or talents
* Expecting constant praise and admiration
* Believing that you’re special and acting accordingly
* Failing to recognize other people’s emotions and feelings
* Expecting others to go along with your ideas and plans
* Taking advantage of others
* Expressing disdain for those you feel are inferior
* Being jealous of others
* Believing that others are jealous of you
* Trouble keeping healthy relationships
* Setting unrealistic goals
* Being easily hurt and rejected
* Having a fragile self-esteem
* Appearing as tough-minded or unemotional
Although some features of narcissistic personality disorder may seem like having confidence or strong self-esteem, it’s not the same. Narcissistic personality disorder crosses the border of healthy confidence and self-esteem into thinking so highly of yourself that you put yourself on a pedestal. In contrast, people who have healthy confidence and self-esteem don’t value themselves more than they value others.
When you have narcissistic personality disorder, you may come across as conceited, boastful or pretentious. You often monopolize conversations. You may belittle or look down on people you perceive as inferior. You may have a sense of entitlement. And when you don’t receive the special treatment to which you feel entitled, you may become very impatient or angry. You may insist on having “the best” of everything — the best car, athletic club, medical care or social circles, for instance.
But underneath all this behavior often lies a fragile self-esteem. You have trouble handling anything that may be perceived as criticism. You may have a sense of secret shame and humiliation. And in order to make yourself feel better, you may react with rage or contempt and efforts to belittle the other person to make yourself appear better.
When to see a doctor
When you have narcissistic personality disorder, you may not want to think that anything could be wrong — doing so wouldn’t fit with your self-image of power and perfection. But by definition, narcissistic personality disorder causes problems in many areas of your life, such as relationships, work, school or your financial affairs. You may be generally unhappy and confused by a mix of seemingly contradictory emotions. Others may not enjoy being around you, and you may find your relationships unfulfilling.
If you notice any of these problems in your life, consider reaching out to a trusted health care provider or mental health provider. Getting the right treatment can help make your life more rewarding and enjoyable.
Causes
It’s not known what causes narcissistic personality disorder. As with other mental disorders, the cause is likely complex. Some evidence links the cause to a dysfunctional childhood, such as excessive pampering, extremely high expectations, abuse or neglect. Other evidence points to genetics or psychobiology — the connection between the brain and behavior and thinking.
Risk factors
Narcissistic personality disorder is rare. It affects more men than women. Narcissistic personality disorder often begins in early adulthood. Although some adolescents may seem to have traits of narcissism, this may simply be typical of the age and doesn’t mean they’ll go on to develop narcissistic personality disorder.
Although the cause of narcissistic personality disorder isn’t known, researchers continue to learn more about the factors that may increase the risk of developing the condition. In the past, experts believed excessive praise, admiration and indulgence from parents may lead to a pathologically inflated sense of self. Today, however, psychiatrists believe parental neglect is more likely responsible.
Risk factors for narcissistic personality disorder may include:
* Parental disdain for fears and needs expressed during childhood
* Lack of affection and praise during childhood
* Neglect and emotional abuse in childhood
* Unpredictable or unreliable caregiving from parents
* Learning manipulative behaviors from parents
Children who learn from their parents that vulnerability is unacceptable may lose their ability to empathize with others’ needs. They may also mask their emotional needs with grandiose, egotistical behavior that’s calculated to make them seem emotionally “bulletproof.”
Complications
Complications of narcissistic personality disorder, if left untreated, can include:
* Substance abuse
* Alcohol abuse
* Depression
* Suicidal thoughts or behavior
* Eating disorders, particularly anorexia nervosa
* Relationship difficulties
* Problems at work or school
Borderline personality disorder
By Mayo Clinic staff
Original Article:http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/borderline-personality-disorder/DS00442
* Definition
* Symptoms
* Causes
* Risk factors
* When to seek medical advice
* Tests and diagnosis
* Complications
* Treatments and drugs
* Lifestyle and home remedies
Mayo Clinic Health Manager
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Definition
Borderline personality disorder can be a distressing medical condition, both for the people who have it and for those around them. When you have borderline personality disorder (BPD), you have difficulty controlling your emotions and are often in a state of upheaval — perhaps as a result of harmful childhood experiences or brain dysfunction.
With borderline personality disorder your image of yourself is distorted, making you feel worthless and fundamentally flawed. Your anger, impulsivity and frequent mood swings may push others away, even though you yearn for loving relationships.
Increasing awareness and research are helping improve the treatment and understanding of borderline personality disorder. Emerging evidence indicates that people with borderline personality disorder often get better over time and that they can live happy, peaceful lives.
Symptoms
Borderline personality disorder affects how you feel about yourself, how you relate to others and how you behave.
When you have BPD, you often have an insecure sense of who you are. That is, your self-image or sense of self often rapidly changes. You may view yourself as evil or bad, and sometimes may feel as if you don’t exist at all. An unstable self-image often leads to frequent changes in jobs, friendships, goals, values and gender identity.
Your relationships are usually in turmoil. You often experience a love-hate relationship with others. You may idealize someone one moment and then abruptly and dramatically shift to fury and hate over perceived slights or even minor misunderstandings. This is because people with the disorder have difficulty accepting gray areas — things are either black or white. For instance, in the eyes of a person with BPD, someone is either good or evil. And that same person may seem good one day and evil the next.
Other signs and symptoms of borderline personality disorder may include:
* Impulsive and risky behavior, such as risky driving, unsafe sex, gambling sprees or taking illicit drugs
* Strong emotions that wax and wane frequently
* Intense but short episodes of anxiety or depression
* Inappropriate anger, sometimes escalating into physical confrontations
* Difficulty controlling emotions or impulses
* Suicidal behavior
* Fear of being alone
Causes
Although definitive data are lacking, it’s estimated that 1 percent to 3 percent of American adults have borderline personality disorder. As with other mental disorders, the causes of borderline personality disorder are complex. The name arose because of theories in the 1940s and 1950s that the disorder was on the border between neurosis and psychosis. But that view doesn’t reflect current thinking. In fact, some advocacy groups have pressed for changing the name, such as calling it emotional regulation disorder.
Meanwhile, the cause of borderline personality disorder remains under investigation, and there’s no known way to prevent it. Possible causes include:
* Genetics. Some studies of twins and families suggest that personality disorders may be inherited.
* Environmental factors. Many people with borderline personality disorder have a history of childhood abuse, neglect and separation from caregivers or loved ones.
* Brain abnormalities. Some research has shown changes in certain areas of the brain involved in emotion regulation, impulsivity and aggression. In addition, certain brain chemicals that help regulate mood, such as serotonin, may not function properly.
Most likely, a combination of these issues results in borderline personality disorder.
Risk factors
Personality forms during childhood. It’s shaped by both inherited tendencies and environmental factors, or your experiences during childhood. Some factors related to personality development can increase your risk of developing borderline personality disorder. These include:
* Hereditary predisposition. You may be at a higher risk if a close family member — a mother, father or sibling — has the disorder.
* Childhood abuse. Many people with the disorder report being sexually or physically abused during childhood.
* Neglect. Some people with the disorder describe severe deprivation, neglect and abandonment during childhood.
Also, borderline personality disorder is more common in women than in men.
The purpose of the taping of the statements of potential witnesses and victims and potential perpetrators by Florida law enforcement is to lock people into their statements in an irrefutable manner as early in an investigation as possible. While LE has no inherent power to administer or accept an oath, the production of video and audio tapes and the transcriptions there from are within their powers of investigation so long as all parties know that they are being taped or video taped and acknowledge same on the medium used.
These tapes are then admissible in court as evidence for the purpose of impeachment. A tape should be transcribed and signed by the accused in the case of a confession to have the most weight and to be available as direct evidence. All law enforcement officers in the state must go through extensive education in the law enforcement field (unless they are a chief of police). They are then required to pass examinations in order to become full fledged law enforcement officers.
This training includes all aspects of being a law enforcement officer – weapons training, self-defense, civil rights training, investigative techniques, and training on all of their powers and duties and obligations as an officer of the law.
See Florida Law Enforcement Manual and Handbook for aditional information in this area.
Borderline personality disorder
By Mayo Clinic staff
Original Article:http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/borderline-personality-disorder/DS00442
* Definition
* Symptoms
* Causes
* Risk factors
* When to seek medical advice
* Tests and diagnosis
* Complications
* Treatments and drugs
* Lifestyle and home remedies
Definition
Borderline personality disorder can be a distressing medical condition, both for the people who have it and for those around them. When you have borderline personality disorder (BPD), you have difficulty controlling your emotions and are often in a state of upheaval — perhaps as a result of harmful childhood experiences or brain dysfunction.
With borderline personality disorder your image of yourself is distorted, making you feel worthless and fundamentally flawed. Your anger, impulsivity and frequent mood swings may push others away, even though you yearn for loving relationships.
Increasing awareness and research are helping improve the treatment and understanding of borderline personality disorder. Emerging evidence indicates that people with borderline personality disorder often get better over time and that they can live happy, peaceful lives.
Symptoms
Borderline personality disorder affects how you feel about yourself, how you relate to others and how you behave.
When you have BPD, you often have an insecure sense of who you are. That is, your self-image or sense of self often rapidly changes. You may view yourself as evil or bad, and sometimes may feel as if you don’t exist at all. An unstable self-image often leads to frequent changes in jobs, friendships, goals, values and gender identity.
Your relationships are usually in turmoil. You often experience a love-hate relationship with others. You may idealize someone one moment and then abruptly and dramatically shift to fury and hate over perceived slights or even minor misunderstandings. This is because people with the disorder have difficulty accepting gray areas — things are either black or white. For instance, in the eyes of a person with BPD, someone is either good or evil. And that same person may seem good one day and evil the next.
Other signs and symptoms of borderline personality disorder may include:
* Impulsive and risky behavior, such as risky driving, unsafe sex, gambling sprees or taking illicit drugs
* Strong emotions that wax and wane frequently
* Intense but short episodes of anxiety or depression
* Inappropriate anger, sometimes escalating into physical confrontations
* Difficulty controlling emotions or impulses
* Suicidal behavior
* Fear of being alone
Causes
Although definitive data are lacking, it’s estimated that 1 percent to 3 percent of American adults have borderline personality disorder. As with other mental disorders, the causes of borderline personality disorder are complex. The name arose because of theories in the 1940s and 1950s that the disorder was on the border between neurosis and psychosis. But that view doesn’t reflect current thinking. In fact, some advocacy groups have pressed for changing the name, such as calling it emotional regulation disorder.
Meanwhile, the cause of borderline personality disorder remains under investigation, and there’s no known way to prevent it. Possible causes include:
* Genetics. Some studies of twins and families suggest that personality disorders may be inherited.
* Environmental factors. Many people with borderline personality disorder have a history of childhood abuse, neglect and separation from caregivers or loved ones.
* Brain abnormalities. Some research has shown changes in certain areas of the brain involved in emotion regulation, impulsivity and aggression. In addition, certain brain chemicals that help regulate mood, such as serotonin, may not function properly.
Most likely, a combination of these issues results in borderline personality disorder.
Risk factors
Personality forms during childhood. It’s shaped by both inherited tendencies and environmental factors, or your experiences during childhood. Some factors related to personality development can increase your risk of developing borderline personality disorder. These include:
* Hereditary predisposition. You may be at a higher risk if a close family member — a mother, father or sibling — has the disorder.
* Childhood abuse. Many people with the disorder report being sexually or physically abused during childhood.
* Neglect. Some people with the disorder describe severe deprivation, neglect and abandonment during childhood.
Also, borderline personality disorder is more common in women than in men.
When to seek medical advice
People with borderline personality disorder often feel misunderstood, alone, empty and hopeless. They’re typically full of self-hate and self-loathing. They may be fully aware that their behavior is destructive and be distressed about it. Impulsivity may cause problems with gambling, driving or even the law. They may find that many areas of their lives are affected, including social relationships, work or school.
If you notice these things about yourself, talk to your doctor or a mental health provider. The right treatment can help you feel better about yourself and help you live a more stable, rewarding life.
If you notice these things in a family member or friend, talk to him or her about seeing a doctor or mental health provider. But keep in mind that you can’t force someone to seek help. If the relationship has you unduly distressed, you may find it helpful to see a therapist yourself.
Tests and diagnosis
Personality disorders are diagnosed based on signs and symptoms and a thorough psychological evaluation. To be diagnosed with borderline personality disorder, you must meet criteria spelled out in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM). This manual is published and updated by the American Psychiatric Association and is used by mental health professionals to diagnose mental conditions and by insurance companies to reimburse for treatment.
For borderline personality disorder to be diagnosed, at least five of the following signs and symptoms must be present:
* Intense fears of abandonment
* A pattern of unstable relationships
* Unstable self-image
* Impulsive and self-destructive behaviors
* Suicidal behavior or self-injury
* Wide mood swings
* Chronic feelings of emptiness
* Inappropriate anger
* Periods of paranoia and loss of contact with reality
A diagnosis of BPD is usually made in adults, not children or adolescents. That’s because what appear to be signs and symptoms of BPD may go away with maturity.
Complications
Borderline personality disorder can damage many areas of your life. Interpersonal relationships, jobs, school, social activities and self-image all can be negatively affected. Repeated job losses and broken marriages are common. Self-injury, such as cutting or burning, can result in scarring and frequent hospitalizations. Suicide rates among people with BPD are very high, reaching 10 percent to 15 percent.
In addition, you may have other mental health problems, including:
* Depression
* Substance abuse
* Anxiety disorders
* Eating disorders
* Bipolar disorder
* Other personality disorders
Because of risky, impulsive behavior, you are also more vulnerable to unplanned pregnancies, sexually transmitted diseases, motor vehicle accidents and physical fights. You may also be involved in abusive relationships, either as the abuser or the abused.
Antisocial personality disorder
By Mayo Clinic staff
Original Article:http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/antisocial-personality-disorder/DS00829
Definition
Antisocial personality disorder is a type of chronic mental illness in which your ways of thinking, perceiving situations and relating to others are dysfunctional. When you have antisocial personality disorder, you typically have no regard for right and wrong. You may often violate the law and the rights of others, landing yourself in frequent trouble or conflict. You may lie, behave violently, and have drug and alcohol problems. And you may not be able to fulfill responsibilities to your family, work or school.
Antisocial personality disorder is sometimes known as sociopathic personality disorder. It’s also sometimes referred to as psychopathy. But some researchers believe that antisocial personality disorder and psychopathic personality are different conditions.
Symptoms
Signs and symptoms of antisocial personality disorder may include:
* Disregard for right and wrong
* Persistent lying or deceit
* Using charm or wit to manipulate others
* Recurring difficulties with the law
* Repeatedly violating the rights of others
* Child abuse or neglect
* Intimidation of others
* Aggressive or violent behavior
* Lack of remorse about harming others
* Impulsive behavior
* Agitation
* Poor or abusive relationships
* Irresponsible work behavior
The intensity of antisocial symptoms tends to peak during the 20s and then may decrease over time. It’s not clear whether this is a result of aging or an increased awareness of the consequences of antisocial behavior. But while you might be less likely to commit crimes against others later in life, you may still have trouble functioning in relationships, work or school. .
Causes
Personality is the combination of thoughts, emotions, and behaviors that makes you unique. It’s the way you view, understand and relate to the outside world, as well as how you see yourself. Personality forms during childhood, shaped through an interaction of two factors:
* Inherited tendencies, or your genes. These are aspects of your personality passed on to you by your parents, such as shyness or having a happy outlook. This is sometimes called your temperament. It’s the “nature” part of the nature vs. nurture debate.
* Environment, or your life situations. This is the surroundings you grew up in, events that occurred, and relationships with family members and others. It includes such things as the type of parenting you had, whether loving or abusive. This is the “nurture” part of the nature vs. nurture debate.
Personality disorders are thought to be caused by a combination of these genetic and environmental influences. Some research suggests that you may have a genetic vulnerability to developing antisocial personality disorder and that your life situation may trigger its actual development.
Risk factors
Although the precise cause of antisocial personality disorder isn’t known, researchers have identified certain factors that seem to increase the risk of developing or triggering antisocial personality disorder, including:
* Being diagnosed with childhood conduct disorder
* A family history of antisocial personality disorder or other personality disorders or mental illness
* Being subjected to verbal, physical or sexual abuse during childhood
* Having an unstable or chaotic family life during childhood
* Loss of parents through death or divorce during childhood
Antisocial personality disorder is relatively uncommon. It affects about 3 to 5 percent of men and 1 percent of women.
Complications
Complications and problems that antisocial personality disorder may cause or be associated with include:
* Depression
* Anxiety
* Aggression or violence
* Suicidal behavior
* Reckless behavior
* Risky sexual behavior
* Child abuse
* Alcohol or substance abuse
* Gambling problems
* Incarceration
* Relationship difficulties
* Social isolation
* School and work problems
* Strained relationships with health care providers
winterbelle:
“Truth be told, I think SHE thought, that by her apologizing for ‘giving them the run around’ , etc., they were going to think ‘oh wow, she’s admitting she gave us the runaround’, which would make them say to Casey (in her mind), ‘ sorry we were grilling you, we see how honest you are being, we were wrong in grilling you’ (or something along those lines)…”
..i completely agree with you on this, also, once left alone with Wells, she immediatley seems to relax—as she begins to ‘bond with him’, laughing and joking about the uncomfortable chairs…( now that she thinks she’s getting somewhere with this guy……the words come tumbling out:
“i’m sorry for the runaround, it’s been a slap in the face, i SHOULD have called LE, Next time i will, i’ll never forgive myself, yes, i’ll offer my comp. my phone blah blah)——-i think she actually thought with her “co-operation” right there,( and now that her and Wells were “friends”
that they would simply say “ok, we’re going to work together now right?” and they’d drive her home.
Antisocial personality disorder
By Mayo Clinic staff
Original Article:http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/antisocial-personality-disorder/DS00829
Definition
Antisocial personality disorder is a type of chronic mental illness in which your ways of thinking, perceiving situations and relating to others are dysfunctional. When you have antisocial personality disorder, you typically have no regard for right and wrong. You may often violate the law and the rights of others, landing yourself in frequent trouble or conflict. You may lie, behave violently, and have drug and alcohol problems. And you may not be able to fulfill responsibilities to your family, work or school.
Antisocial personality disorder is sometimes known as sociopathic personality disorder. It’s also sometimes referred to as psychopathy. But some researchers believe that antisocial personality disorder and psychopathic personality are different conditions.
Symptoms
Signs and symptoms of antisocial personality disorder may include:
* Disregard for right and wrong
* Persistent lying or deceit
* Using charm or wit to manipulate others
* Recurring difficulties with the law
* Repeatedly violating the rights of others
* Child abuse or neglect
* Intimidation of others
* Aggressive or violent behavior
* Lack of remorse about harming others
* Impulsive behavior
* Agitation
* Poor or abusive relationships
* Irresponsible work behavior
The intensity of antisocial symptoms tends to peak during the 20s and then may decrease over time. It’s not clear whether this is a result of aging or an increased awareness of the consequences of antisocial behavior. But while you might be less likely to commit crimes against others later in life, you may still have trouble functioning in relationships, work or school. .
Causes
Personality is the combination of thoughts, emotions, and behaviors that makes you unique. It’s the way you view, understand and relate to the outside world, as well as how you see yourself. Personality forms during childhood, shaped through an interaction of two factors:
* Inherited tendencies, or your genes. These are aspects of your personality passed on to you by your parents, such as shyness or having a happy outlook. This is sometimes called your temperament. It’s the “nature” part of the nature vs. nurture debate.
* Environment, or your life situations. This is the surroundings you grew up in, events that occurred, and relationships with family members and others. It includes such things as the type of parenting you had, whether loving or abusive. This is the “nurture” part of the nature vs. nurture debate.
Personality disorders are thought to be caused by a combination of these genetic and environmental influences. Some research suggests that you may have a genetic vulnerability to developing antisocial personality disorder and that your life situation may trigger its actual development.
Risk factors
Although the precise cause of antisocial personality disorder isn’t known, researchers have identified certain factors that seem to increase the risk of developing or triggering antisocial personality disorder, including:
* Being diagnosed with childhood conduct disorder
* A family history of antisocial personality disorder or other personality disorders or mental illness
* Being subjected to verbal, physical or sexual abuse during childhood
* Having an unstable or chaotic family life during childhood
* Loss of parents through death or divorce during childhood
Antisocial personality disorder is relatively uncommon. It affects about 3 to 5 percent of men and 1 percent of women.
Complications
Complications and problems that antisocial personality disorder may cause or be associated with include:
* Depression
* Anxiety
* Aggression or violence
* Suicidal behavior
* Reckless behavior
* Risky sexual behavior
* Child abuse
* Alcohol or substance abuse
* Gambling problems
* Incarceration
* Relationship difficulties
* Social isolation
* School and work problems
* Strained relationships with health care providers
Here in NW:
Check out Val’s series, “Casey’s Profile” – it’s in the Library link on the right hands side of the top of this page. Val has already done an analysis and profile of Casey there.
Thanks, Carrie. Sorry, Val
As I listen to this interview I keep asking myself – why did they never ask her what she needed a nanny for since she didn’t have a job or money?
:
Do we know she WASN’T asked about her need for a nanny ? Have ALL the interviews been released ?
» Nauseated said: { Feb 13, 2010 – 07:02:43 }
Do we know she WASN’T asked about her need for a nanny ? Have ALL the interviews been released ?
Very good question – I have no idea
Winterbelle — I know exactly what you’re questioning about Casey’s apparent lack of “technique” when it comes to mimicking the emotions of grief, anxiety, or even concern for Caylee.
My thought is that while Casey had been in trouble prior to harming Caylee, she quickly realized her latest screw-up was of a much greater magnitude than she had any practice at faking her way through. I think her response, because she’s not yet as sophisticated a sociopath as someone older, was that she became more self-absorbed than ever, wasn’t thinking straight, and simply FORGOT she needed to fake a certain set of specific emotions that would make her appear like a normal mother with a “missing” child
She also quickly realized how preposterous her Zanny story was, and I think she was using most of her meager intelligence just trying to fluff and fold that stupid story so someone, anyone, might buy it. It’s my sense if she’d had a better story to tell about Caylee’s disappearance, she could’ve relaxed and really *worked it* when called upon to make like a terrified mother of a missing toddler.
Kim and Nauseated, I am thinking they already knew she was trying to sell a truckload of lies, and the Nanny was just one portion of the load. But you are right, Naus, we don’t know for sure whether the asked her.
HINA – I am certain they knew it was bunk – they told her they knew she was lying to them. They even made her swear to the fact that she lied to them.
How they didn’t shake her by her shoulders 8O
– true professionals, imo
William – I’m sorry I don’t know how to put a link to this. I googled “who can take sworn statement by law enforcement” and the third listing is Advisory Legal Opinion-Who can administer oath. Please look at it and tell me if I misinterrupted because I think it says LE can administer oath in an ongoing investigation. I was just curious and in no way mean to be intruding.
I’ve been re-listening to Casey’s interview with the first officer at her home, her phone calls to home and with Lee, and Lee’s jail visit where she’s giving him ‘information’ and right off the bat she’s lying about the ‘missing’ phone. She tells the officer she left the phone on her desk at work, then later tells Lee from jail to look through her bags, etc. or that it could have fallen out of her pocket. This is, of course, after she’s been caught lying about everything. I don’t think this girl could tell the truth if – well, her life DOES depend on it.
As for Cindy and Casey being sociopaths/narcissistic personalities, someone upthread stated they had experience with a family member with those traits. I also have a family member who is a major narcissist, and most likely a sociopath. It has been noted that this person will watch others and actually study their emotions, in order to replicate them as needed. Doesn’t work, because the self-importance, disregard for others’ feelings, disregard for consequences, not understanding the lack of ‘support’ in these behaviors, assigning behaviors to others, claims of high intelligence, etc. are all qualities of this person that come out instead of the ‘appropriate’ emotion/action. Stealing from family members is another one that has happened, and then not understanding why everyone doesn’t immediately forgive and forget. Take no responsibility.
Sorry, Val, I’m afraid I’ve completely gotten-topic re the Timer55 article. Please move to the appropriate place if you would rather not have the comments here.
HINA: “Sorry, Val, I’m afraid I’ve completely gotten-topic re the Timer55 article.”
lol. I do believe that ship has sailed.
Here in NW Arkansas — and now imagine that person’s narcissistic behavior not only enabled, but CHAMPIONED by her mother/primary caregiver her entire life, AND imagine said caregiver also ROLE MODELING very similar narcissistic behavior. There were no constraints on Casey’s behavior save for whatever Cindy might hardheartedly attempt on the fly and strictly for her own convenience. I think that’s why Casey’s particular brand of narcissism and sociopathy seems so much more brazen than whatever is typical for those people. For all her 22 years, she watched her mother act outrageously while everyone around her (including her father and brother) simply backed away. And she (Casey) pushed every conceivable limit with her own behavior while her mother hid it, lied about it, and covered it over.
Everyone has great insight,input and observations(!) as to Casey and her lack of emotions (and her inability to express either with words or inflection), and with this entire case in general.
I appreciate everyone’s input, observations and feedback, not only when reading a response to something I have posted, but in response to Val’s thread of the day, and/or to other postings on a myriad of topics concerning Casey.
I have learned so much from reading others observations and comments, from either their first hand experience, or, via the knowledge they have obtained from reading all documents.
P.S. I literally keep a paper and pen handy, whenever I am on this blog, as there are so many words I am not familiar with (expressed in others’ comments). When I come across a word (s) I am not familiar with, I write them down and in my spare time, I look up their respective definitions. Therefore, I would like to say that, my time on this blog is not only fun, it is constructive.
For whatever it’s worth, one of the words I learned this week is ‘perfidy’ …
Gracias!
Quite true. Mother and daughter, daughter has been raised with her mother’s example, shown ‘how it’s done’ growing up, Mom won’t ever allow Casey to take responsibility for anything, not that Casey would, anyway.
WinterBelle – it IS quite a learning experience, is it not?
Still going over the initial interviews – right now at Universal. I, personally, rather than getting smart and a bit angry with the officers confronting my lies, would be petrified and begging for mercy.
One question, and sorry if it has already been stated, but Did Casey ever actually talk to Tony from jail?
Hey Silverspnr!
My favourite Cindy contradiction from the M & J Show is “You know I watched that videotape I haven’t seen it” (sans punctuation pauses)
Here in Northwest Arkansas, if I remember correctly, Tony and Lee talked about a conversation that Tony had with Casey on the phone, where Tony was asking Casey why she didn’t tell him, why she lied. It seems that this would have been a call from jail and recorded, unless the call was later, when Casey was out and Tony’s phone was being used by police to record the call.
Val, Maura, do you know if this referenced call was Casey to Tony from jail? If so, how is it not in the public domain?
kc was texting tony in the morning ( july 16th) after LE left, tony said why don’t you phone me ? she did——-and they spoke for about an hour i believe ( around 8 a.m or so ) prior to LE coming back to get her to go to Universal.
ABSOLUTELY!
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» Here in Northwest Arkansas said: { Feb 13, 2010 – 08:02:27 }
WinterBelle – it IS quite a learning experience, is it not?
Kleat:
I think you are talking about a SMS conversation between TL and KC
Page 42 of this file is where it starts.
http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/Stories/Local/Anthony%20pgs%202651-2700f.pdf
Thanks, Kleat and William.
i also recall kc talking on the phone with tony from her bedroom the morning of the 16th , approx. 8 a.m. or so —–after LE left, and before they returned at 12:30 to take her to Universal.
cindy overheard them on the phone ( per one of her interviews ) ( tony mentions it in one of his..)
Is this the same convo, during which Cindy claims she overheard (more than likely LISTENED to) Casey allude to $14,000 – as she spoke with Tony?
TIA
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» ellejay said: { Feb 13, 2010 – 09:02:52 }
i also recall kc talking on the phone with tony from her bedroom the morning of the 16th , approx. 8 a.m. or so —–after LE left, and before they returned at 12:30 to take her to Universal.
cindy overheard them on the phone ( per one of her interviews ) ( tony mentions it in one of his..)
Was that not the conversation that cindy overheard where Casey told Tony she was paying Baez 10,000.00 from her savings accout and Cindy took it that Tony had drug money he was going to pay Casey’s lawyer?
i believe so yes——–i’m going over Val’s interview transcripts etc in her timeline to find what i’m talking about…
( the timeline is intense! could take me awhile, as i get so distracted reading tons of interesting stuff..)
Of all the lies that have been spewed forth by Casey, the one that literally unnerved me, (and does so, each time I have re-heard her state it) is her mimicking Caylee’s voice, in the phone call she alleges she received on July 15th ‘at noon- from a private number’ is the “Hi Mommy”! (in a sing-song voice).
Her daughter is literally rotting away (apologies, folks) in the woods, and not only is Casey putting words in Caylee’s mouth so to speak, she is MIMICKING her (!)
OH-MY- GOSH! If THIS (besides the actual ACT of murdering Caylee) doesn’t scream EVIL PERSONIFIED, I don’t know what does.
There simply are no words to describe this evil, EVIL, statement.
sept 8th 2008 interview with Tony does not have the mention of july 16th phone call with Casey…. so do not look there Ellejay.
..found this, so far, in val’s timeline:
..at 7:27 a.m. july 16/08
she talks to tony for just over 2 hours.
Timeline for July 16
16 – 12:19 am someone calls TL from KC’s cell phone, 5 minute conversation. It is assumed this is LA. Approximately midnight LA goes to TL’s apartment to retrieve KC’s belongings.
2:25 a.m. (LA has been gone for more than 2 hours) LA arrives at Anthony house with KC’s belongings and dumps contents of bag on living room floor. Detective actually leaves room while Anthony family goes through contents.
2:58 a.m. SD misses a call on his cell phone from KC. LA later tells him it was probably the cops and to ignore it.
4:11 am OCSO interviews KC.
Audio of KC’s interview Part 1
Audio of KC’s interview Part 2
6:48 am KC sends TL a text message that reads “Im so sorry for not telling you what happened..weobviously need to talk. I need you..and i love you more than you know”
6:50 am TL sends KC a text message that reads “Where is caylee?”
6:50 am KC sends TL a text message that reads “I honestly dont know..”
6:53 am TL sends KC a text message that reads “I don’t know…. R u serious?.. When did u find out?”
6:53 am KC sends TL a text message that reads “Ive been filing reports all night and driving around with multiple officers looking at old apartments i had taken her to. Everything. I am t”
6:54 am KC sends TL a text message that reads “Too long. Lets just leave it at that.”
6:57 am TL sends KC a text message that reads “Y wouldn’t u tell me of all people I was ur boyfriend that cares about you and ur daughter. Dosn’t make sense to me. Why would u lie to me th”
6:59 am KC sends TL a text message that reads “I lied to everyone. What was i supposed to say? I trust my daughter with some psycho. How does that look?”
7:01 am TL sends KC a text message that reads “Idk what to say.. I just hope your daughter is okay and I’m gonna do whatever I can do to help ur family and the cops.”
7:01 am KC sends TL a text message that reads “I was put in handcuffs for almost 10 minutes and sat in the back of a cop car. The best thing and the most important person in my life is mi”
7:02 am KC sends TL a text message that reads “I am the dubest person and the worst mother. I honestly hate myself”
7:03 am KC sends Tl a text message that reads “The most important thing is getting caylee back but i truly hope that you can forgive me..granted i will never be able to forgive myself..no”
7:04 am TL sends KC a text message that reads “Who is this zanny nanny person”
7:06 am KC sends TL a text message that reads “Someone i had net through a mutual friend almost 4 years ago. She used to be my buddy jeffs nanny before she became mine”
7:09 am KC sends TL a text message that reads “Im scared”
7:12 am TL sends KC a text message that reads “R u home?”
7:13 am KC sends TL a text message that reads “Yeah. Almost 12 hours of stuff. Finally getting a shower. I feel like [edited out]”
7:15 am TL sends KC a text message that reads “Where did u drop off caylee last time u saw her?”
7:17 am KC sends TL a text message that reads “At her apartment. At the bottom stairs”
7:17 am TL sends KC a text message that reads “Where?!”
7:18 am KC sends TL a text message that reads “Sawgrass apartments”
7:19 am KC sends TL a text message that reads “Have told and showed the police the apartment.”
7:20 am KC sends TL a text message that reads “Told them and drove out there with two different officers. I just got back from the second drive”
7:21 am KC sends TL a text message that reads “If they dont find her..guess who gets blamed and spends eternity in jail?”
7:23 am TL sends KC a text message that reads “Yeah no [edited out] this serious why would u say somthing sooner bout this? Too anyone?”
7:24 am TL sends KC a text message that reads “Oh and why are u texting me and not callin”
7:24 am KC sends TL a text message that reads “I talked to two people that have been directly connected to zanny. How can i sit there and be so blind and stupid? Its my fault”
7:25 am KC sends TL a text message that reads “I was scared to admit..i was scared that something was going to happen to my baby.”
7:27 am KC calls TL, 2 hours and 2 minutes conversation. :!:
note: interesting that she tells tony that she went with , not one, but TWO different officers and showed them zanny’s apt. ( she neglects to say—-but they checked it out, wasn’t true—-wasn’t z’s apt.)
@ 7:24—–wow! kc tells the truth!!!! ( “it’s my fault”
.
Hi Valhall. This is the first time I’m posting on your wonderful site. You are so insightful and smart, I can’t wait to read your columns every day. The Anthonys are a completely pathological family and if they are not charged as accomplices after the fact when this is all over, there is no justice in this world. The four of them make me sick. No parent in their right mind would cover up for the murderer of their precious granddaughter, even when the murderer is their own child. CA is a narcissistic poor excuse for a mother. She will continue to protest her daughter’s innocence even as Casey takes her final walk for a date with the needle.
Christine said: { Feb 13, 2010 – 09:02:06 }
Was that not the conversation that cindy overheard where Casey told Tony she was paying Baez 10,000.00 from her savings accout and Cindy took it that Tony had drug money he was going to pay Casey’s lawyer?
………..kc had the phone conversation with tony 7:27 a.m.-9:29 a.m. the MORNING of july 16th——–prior to going to Universal—-prior to be arrested that night.
..so, casey would NOT HAVE (baez) or any lawyer yet.
..i recall cindy saying she overheard ( eaves-dropping, no doubt) kc say something about $14,000 while on the phone with tony.
..i was reading through vals’ ‘timeline & discovery”.
..looking for– cindy over-hearing the conversation between kc & tony july 16 a.m.
..i read every word of cindy’s transcripts ( yes, please feel sorry for me -sob—that wretched woman can TALK, and talk and talk! )
..but——the SILVER LINING—-if you haven’t read the timeline–DO! it’s chock full of everything you can imagine. this was probably my 3rd read—STILL came across new info.
..i can’t BEGIN to imagine how much time went into putting that together, absolutely amazing.
..i’ve gone to the timeline numerous times looking for info—–thinking of it as a library of sorts—–without thanking anyone FOR it——am now !!!!!
Congratulations Val, you have won the prestigious “February 2010 DaneBramage internet Bullshit Butcher” Award. Please claim your prize!!!
Great job dismantling the Anthony confusion machine. You amaze me.
All Sheriff deputies in the state of Florida have the same powers, duties, and obligations as the Sheriff, by statute. There is no authority to take or administer oaths implied or explicit in any of the statutes (which I have now searched extensively).
The only way that any of these witnesses could have been placed under oath for their taped statements would have been if one of the persons there happened to have been a Notary Public or a Clerk of the court or deputy clerk. However, this would have resulted in a document being produced with either the Notary or Court seals and an affirmation or verification that was signed by the person with the power to administer oaths as well as the signature of the person providing the sworn statement in the case of the Notary.
Also, this would mean that the OCSO deputy who administered the oath would have had to have been the Notary or deputy clerk. Possible, but not likely.
Statutes concerning the Sheriff and Sheriff deputies in Florida.
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=Ch0030/titl0030.htm
30.15 Powers, duties, and obligations.–
(1) Sheriffs, in their respective counties, in person or by deputy, shall:
(a) Execute all process of the Supreme Court, circuit courts, county courts, and boards of county commissioners of this state, to be executed in their counties.
(b) Execute such other writs, processes, warrants, and other papers directed to them, as may come to their hands to be executed in their counties.
(c) Attend all terms of the circuit court and county court held in their counties.
(d) Execute all orders of the boards of county commissioners of their counties, for which services they shall receive such compensation, out of the county treasury, as said boards may deem proper.
(e) Be conservators of the peace in their counties.
(f) Suppress tumults, riots, and unlawful assemblies in their counties with force and strong hand when necessary.
(g) Apprehend, without warrant, any person disturbing the peace, and carry that person before the proper judicial officer, that further proceedings may be had against him or her according to law.
(h) Have authority to raise the power of the county and command any person to assist them, when necessary, in the execution of the duties of their office; and, whoever, not being physically incompetent, refuses or neglects to render such assistance, shall be punished by imprisonment in jail not exceeding 1 year, or by fine not exceeding $500.
(i) Be, ex officio, timber agents for their counties.
(j) Perform such other duties as may be imposed upon them by law.
(2) Sheriffs, in their respective counties, in person or by deputy, shall, at the will of the board of county commissioners, attend, in person or by deputy, all meetings of the boards of county commissioners of their counties, for which services they shall receive such compensation, out of the county treasury, as said boards may deem proper.
(3) On or before January 1, 2002, every sheriff shall incorporate an antiracial or other antidiscriminatory profiling policy into the sheriff’s policies and practices, utilizing the Florida Police Chiefs Association Model Policy as a guide. Antiprofiling policies shall include the elements of definitions, traffic stop procedures, community education and awareness efforts, and policies for the handling of complaints from the public.
History.–s. 14, ch. 4, 1845; ss. 1, 4, ch. 157, 1848; s. 9, ch. 1626, 1868; ss. 1, 2, ch. 1659, 1868; RS 650, 651, 653, 1241, 1242, 2583; GS 991, 992, 994, 1670, 1671, 3503; RGS 1804, 1805, 1807, 2875, 2876, 5388; CGL 2856, 2857, 2859, 4572, 4573, 7527; s. 4, ch. 22790, 1945; s. 4, ch. 73-334; s. 1, ch. 91-95; s. 179, ch. 95-147; s. 2, ch. 2001-264.
Note.–Former ss. 144.01-144.03, 30.16.
When Tony and Lee were in the car talking and being taped by LE, I think Tony says that he was surprised that Casey continued to lie to him even after everything went down. He was probably talking about the July 16 a.m. 2-hour call. She continued to tell him about the nanny, the job, etc. And by the time he and Lee spoke, everyone already knew that none of that was true.
I hope that I have not become “persona non grata” by being the one to discover that LE has no ability to administer an oath and that none of the witness statements are actually given under oath for that reason! 8O I am just the messenger here, not the reason that it is true or that we have been mislead for about a year by the investigative trickery used by YM. I will love it if someone can find something in Florida law which makes me a liar on this!! I have looked at Florida Appellate Court cases, Florida Supreme Court cases, and legislative history trying to find some place where a Sheriff Deputy may have been granted this authority. Nothing!
I spent almost all day yesterday in this search. Nada!
So, I think that we are left with the reality that nothing that has been said, outside of official depositions taken for trial purposes, by any of the Anthony family was said while under oath.
However, these tapes are still useful in the search for truth and in any proceedings which may later be brought against one of them for witness tampering or accessory after the fact.
My last hope is that AZL or Silver have access to one of the legal databases such as Lexis and that they have the time to find something which proves me wrong.
Sorry….
“i’m sorry for the runaround, it’s been a slap in the face, i SHOULD have called LE, Next time i will, i’ll never forgive myself, yes, i’ll offer my comp. my phone blah blah)——-i think she actually thought with her “co-operation” right there,( and now that her and Wells were “friends”) that they would simply say “ok, we’re going to work together now right?” and they’d drive her home.
————————-
NEXT TIME I WILL?????
It’s like her puppy ran away, and she’s apologizing for not putting up LOST posters.
Complete disconnect.
Her attitude in that part of the conversation tells me something very, very important:
She is fully capable of doing this again, if she feels it is necessary. By “this” I mean killing someone.
She doesn’t feel remorse for doing it. She’s mildly panicky that she’s been forced to come up with an explanation.
But, she’s already thinking of the possibility that she could be in this type of situation again in the future.
Killing somebody to “rid” herself of a problem is a perfectly logical answer, in her twisted world.
This goes beyond just not caring about other people. This goes to her willingness/ability to cross the line from just plain old sociopath to absolute monster.
I hope the prosecution figures out a way to bring this type of information into the penalty phase.
William,
I don’t believe you have discovered what you think you have discovered.
If you look at first two pages of Annie Downing’s January 7 interview transcript, you’ll see that Annie’s testimony was compelled by an investigative subpoena issued by the State Attorney’s Office. Assistant State Attorney Linda Drane-Burdick (20+ years of experience as a Distict Nine prosecutor) and Detectives Yuri Melich and Eric Edwards were present along with Annie and her lawyer.
At the bottom of page two, Linda Drane-Burdick explained to Annie that one of the detectives would be swearing her in.
At the top of page three, Yuri Melich did the honors:
Yuri Melich: Would you raise your right hand for me? Do you swear and affirm the statements you’re about to give are true to the best of your knowledge?
Annie Downing: Yes, sir.
Yuri Melich: Okay. I’m Yuri Melich with the Sheriff’s Office. Good afternoon.
*****
I am going to trust ASA Drane-Burdick to know the law the Florida.
FYI –
I’ve worked out the mystery of the two different MySpace login email/password combos that Casey gave to her family on July 25 (she gave one version to Lee in the morning and a different one to Cindy in the afternoon).
The answer is that Casey told Cindy how to get into the Kayseeomaree MySpace account (Casey’s long-established MySpace) and told Lee how to get into the Cayleeismissing MySpace (the new MySpace account created on July 16).
Casey’s MySpace Account:
http://www.myspace.com/cayleeismissing
~~~On 7/25 she told Lee the login email is caseyomarie@yahoo.com
~~~On 7/25 she told Lee the password is cays234
~~~During his morning jail video visitation, Lee told Casey he needed the login and password SPECIFICALLY for the Caylee is Missing MySpace. That was the MySpace Casey created on the morning of July 16.
Casey’s MySpace Account:
http://www.myspace.com/kayseeomaree
~~~On 7/25 she told Cindy the login email is kayseeomaree@cfl.rr.com
~~~On 7/25 she told Cindy the password is Timer55
~~~During the afternoon video visitation, Casey asked Cindy if her old Kodak boss, Earl Meredith, had contacted the family. Cindy said no and asked Casey how he could be contacted. Casey said he used to have a MySpace page and Cindy could probably find him on her own (Casey’s) MySpace Friends list. Cindy asked for the login information to access Casey’s personal (old, established) MySpace.
**
Two different MySpace pages, so two different sets of login email/password combinations.
And Casey said the password to her personal MySpace (the Kayseeomaree MySpace) was the same as her password to her personal Facebook page. Both were Timer55.
William- I left a comment about this yesterday. I was curious and found a letter from the Attorney Gen office to the Havana Fla Police Chief about this question. The AG stated ALL LE and corrections officers may administer oaths to witnesses in connection with taking of a sworn statement during a criminal investigation in connection with their duties for LE purposes. I’m sorry I dont know how to do a link to the site . I simply googled “who may administer oath in sworn statement to LE”
w
Valhall –
This is still confusing IMO:
“The first time we, the public, can tell timer55 was possibly used as a password by either Casey or some one in the Anthony family was on May 14, 2008 at 8:49 am when the “owner” account on the Anthony desktop appears to have been changed from timer55 to rico23. (Many thanks to Maura-pedia for this correction!)”
*****
We have no idea what the password for the “owner/case” account was prior to May 14, and I personally think it’s too much of a stretch to posit that the old HP user account password was timer55.
The first use of Timer55 as a password that we, the public, can discern is in the July 25 video visitation when George and Cindy visited Casey. Casey asked Cindy if her old Kodak boss, Earl Meredith, had been in touch. Cindy said no and wasn’t sure how to get in touch with him. Casey said he had a MySpace that they might be able to reach him through, and the link to his MySpace could be on the Friends list on Casey’s MySpace (http://www.myspace.com/kayseeomaree). Cindy and Cindy then had the following exchange:
Cindy: I don’t know your MySpace password.
Casey: Do you know the email for it?
Cindy: Is it caseyomarie?
Casey. I’ll spell it for you. K-A-Y-S-E-E-O-M-A-R-E-E at CFL dot RR dot COM [Kayseeomaree@cfl.rr.com]. Password is the same as my Facebook account. It’s timer, T-I-M-E-R-5-5.
**
All we know is that Casey claimed the password for BOTH her Facebook page and Kayseeomaree MySpace page was “timer55″ as of July 25, 2008.
Maura:
Okay. Hope you are right. What about Mr. Sheaffers’ comments? He is a legal analyst right? I think that there is a difference because of the deposition process.
RULE 3.220. DISCOVERY
(h) Discovery Depositions.
(1) Generally. At any time after the filing of the charging document any party may take the
deposition upon oral examination of any person authorized by this rule. A party taking a deposition shall give reasonable written notice to each other party and shall make a good faith effort to coordinate the date, time, and location of the deposition to accommodate the schedules of other parties and the witness to be deposed. The notice shall state the time and the location where the deposition is to be taken, the name of each person to be examined, and a certificate of counsel that a good faith effort was made to coordinate the deposition schedule. After notice to the parties the court may, for good cause shown, extend or shorten the time and may change the location of the deposition. Except as provided herein, the procedure for taking the deposition, including the scope of the examination, and the issuance of a subpoena (except a subpoena duces tecum) for deposition by an attorney of record in the action, shall be the same as that provided in the Florida Rules of Civil Procedure. Any deposition taken pursuant to this rule may be used by any party for the purpose of contradicting or impeaching the testimony of the deponent as a witness. The trial court or the clerk of the court may, upon application, issue subpoenas for the persons whose depositions are to be taken. In any case, including multiple defendants or consolidated cases, no person shall be deposed more than once except by consent of the parties or by order of the court issued on good cause shown. A witness who refuses to obey a duly served subpoena may be adjudged in contempt of the court from which the subpoena issued.
From this it is possible to pull at least a few facts:
a. A deposition is generally only allowed ONCE for a given individual in a given cause of action.
b. Depositions are with LEAVE OF A COURT, which means that the officers of the court are now acting under the aegis of the SEAL OF THE COURT.
c. testimony driven by subpoena (a coercive process) or threat of subpoena is different than voluntary statements given by a witness.
d. the CIRCUIT COURT sets the scope of any discovery deposition and specifies what areas may be delved into.
We know that AL had multiple sessions with YM over a fairly long period of time, so these had to be a different process than a deposition. We also know that these were investigative interviews without specific leave of the court. Therefore, YM would not have authority to give an oath but still did so.
It looks like they can only use the deposition for impeachment purposes – which I already knew they could do with an investigative statement. So, I will leave it there. I still have not found statutory authority for LE to issue oaths, but I will accept it as true.
All is not lost, some of the info you shared is new to me…’new’ in the sense I had never read it…however, after meeting/knowing and/or staying away from more than a few persons (a family member included) with those traits, I recognized those same people in all the info you shared…*I hope that makes sense (scratching head).
Thanks for sharing.
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» Here in Northwest Arkansas said: { Feb 13, 2010 – 08:02:23 }
Sorry, Val, I’m afraid I’ve completely gotten-topic re the Timer55 article. Please move to the appropriate place if you would rather not have the comments here.
Hi William Hill…
Re: sworn statements and LE’s authority…
I found this link that may be helpful…..
Date: November 9, 1983
Subject: Authority to administer oaths
Mr. Phillip Fusilier
Chief of Police
Havana Police Department
Post Office Box 1068
Havana, Florida 32333
Dear Chief Fusilier:
This is in response to your request for an opinion on substantially the following question:
ARE LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS AS DEFINED BY s 943.10, F.S., AUTHORIZED BY CH. 83-147, LAWS OF FLORIDA, TO ADMINISTER OATHS TO, AND ATTEST TO THE SIGNATURES OF, PERSONS SIGNING THE FOLLOWING DOCUMENTS:
a. COMPLAINTS OR AFFIDAVITS THAT WILL FORM THE BASIS FOR THE PROSECUTION OF MISDEMEANOR VIOLATIONS OR FOR THE ISSUANCE OF ARREST WARRANTS FOR FELONY AND MISDEMEANOR VIOLATIONS?
b. PROBABLE CAUSE AFFIDAVITS SUBMITTED TO A MAGISTRATE AT A NONADVERSARY PROBABLE CAUSE HEARING?
Section 1, Ch. 83-147, Laws of Florida, states in relevant part:
All law enforcement and correctional officers as defined in s. 943.10 may administer oaths, to witnesses, in connection with the taking of a sworn statement during a criminal investigation in connection with their official duties for law enforcement purposes only. (e.s.)
The section goes on to provide that making a material false statement under oath to an officer is punishable as a first degree misdemeanor.
You included with your letter copies of two standard printed forms used by your office. One is a three-part form consisting of a complaint with a separate place to list the name and address of state witnesses, a warrant and a return of writ which you stated is used as the basic charging document in a misdemeanor prosecution and as the basis for the issuance of an arrest warrant for felony and misdemeanor violations. The other document, styled a “Summary of Offense and Probable Cause Affidavit,” is generally used at “first appearance” nonadversary probable cause hearings to allege the existence of probable cause to hold an accused for trial on both felony and misdemeanor counts. It is usually signed by a police officer. You asked whether it is proper for law enforcement officers, pursuant to Ch. 83-147, Laws of Florida, to administer oaths to complainants signing the complaint form and to attest to the signature, or execute the required jurat, in lieu of a judge, an assistant state attorney or a notary public. The same question holds for the probable cause affidavit, although it appears from the form and from telephone conversations with you that the person to be sworn, like the person administering the oath, would be a law enforcement officer.
The first question to arise is whether these two documents could be regarded as sworn statements of witnesses taken during a criminal investigation. I have not found any Florida decisions or statutes defining the term “criminal investigation” or the word “investigation.” The word “criminal” as used in s 925.095, F.S. 1983, is an adjective describing and modifying the noun “investigation” and the term “criminal investigation” in the instant context relates and has reference to an investigation which pertains to or is connected with the law of crimes. See, Black’s Law Dictionary 447 (Rev. 4th ed. 1968). Other authorities have defined “investigation” or “to investigate” as:
To follow up step by step by patient inquiry or observation; to trace or track mentally; to search into, to examine and inquire into with care and accuracy; to find out by careful inquisition; examination; the taking of evidence ….
Black’s Law Dictionary 960 (Rev. 4th ed. 1968). See also, 48A C.J.S. Investigation p. 214, where investigation is defined as “the process of inquiring into or tracking down through inquiry; the action or process of searching minutely for truth, facts, or principles. … [A] patient inquiry into and examination of all reasonably available facts.” It has been said that “[a]n investigation is ‘essentially informal, not adversary’; it is ‘not required to take any particular form.’ ” Brotherhood of Railway and Steamship Clerks, Freight Handlers, Express and Station Employees v. Association for the Benefit of Non-Contract Employees (No. 138), 380 U.S. 650, 662 (1965). See also, Bowles v. Baer, 142 F.2d 787, 788 (7th Cir. 1944), in which the court said, “[i]nvestigations are informal proceedings held to obtain information to govern future action and are not proceedings in which action is taken against anyone” (e.s.); and Atchison, Topeka and Santa Fe Railway Company v. Kansas Commission on Civil Rights, 529 P.2d 666 (Kan.1974). Cf., In re Securities and Exchange Commission, 14 F.Supp. 417, 418 (S.D.N.Y.1936) in which the court, distinguishing an investigation from a hearing, said, “[a]n investigation, on the other hand, is informal, preliminary, and usually private. It is conducted to determine whether grounds exist for taking more formal proceedings. There are no parties in any substantial sense, no definite issues.”
These cases involved disputes in civil administrative matters generally, but the distinction between an informal investigation and other more formal proceedings before a judicial body also appears to exist in the criminal law. For example, in Lindsay v. Allen, 82 S.W. 648, 649 (Tenn.1904), the court said:
The words “trial,” “hearing,” “proceeding,” and “investigation” are all terms that pertain to proceedings of a criminal nature, and mark the different steps in a criminal prosecution. Thus, “proceeding” and “investigation” relate to proceedings and investigations before a grand jury when the state is proceeding by indictment or presentment; the words “trial” and “hearing” may relate to the trial of the cause upon final hearing or to the preliminary hearing before the committing magistrate. … (e.s.)
It appears from the preceding decisions that an investigation, including a criminal investigation, is an informal inquiry into the facts outside the bounds of a court, generally taking place before formal action has been instituted against someone.
From an examination of the statutes and rules of criminal procedure governing proceedings in a county court, for the issuance of arrest warrants, and in probable cause hearings, it appears that the complaint and the affidavit are used more to focus the machinery of the criminal justice system against a particular individual than to gather facts during an inquiry.
A discussion of the role played by the complaint form is somewhat complicated by the fact that the statutes and rules concerning the prosecution of cases in the county court and applications for arrest warrants both use the word “complaint” or a variation to describe the document that starts off both processes. For example, s 34.13(4), F.S., provides for the commencement of a prosecution by issuance of a warrant for a misdemeanor in the county court by a “complaint made on affidavit.” (Compare, s 15, Art. I, State Const., which requires prosecution of felonies on indictment or information.) On the other hand s 901.02, F.S., states:
A warrant may be issued for the arrest of the person complained against if the magistrate, from the examination of the complainant and other witnesses, reasonably believes that the person complained against has committed an offense within his jurisdiction.
At the same time, Fla.R.Cr.P. 3.120, similarly provides that a committing magistrate may issue a warrant or a summons “when the complaint states facts which show that such person violated a criminal law of this State ….”
Yet I have found no Florida statute or judicial decision defining the word “complaint” for the purposes of criminal law. Cf., State ex rel. Park v. H.T. Poindexter & Sons Merchandise Co., 7 So.2d 452, 454 (Fla.1941) which, in effect, holds that the word “complaint” is the technical name of a bill in chancery signifying the pleading by which a plaintiff sets out his cause of action in equity in the same sense that the word “declaration” is used to signify the plaintiff’s pleading in a suit at law, and that a “distress affidavit” in a distress proceeding and a verified “statement of account” in a suit in a Justice of Peace Court serves the office of and is tantamount to a declaration in an action at law. The purpose of the complaint is well-defined in the civil law: it is to advise the court and the defendant of the nature of the cause of action asserted by the plaintiff.
Connolly v. Sebeco, Inc., 89 So.2d 482 (Fla.1956). There seems to be little functional difference between this definition and that for an indictment, which the Florida Supreme Court once said was to fairly apprise the defendant of the charge. Drozewski v. State, 84 So.2d 329 (Fla.1956). The purpose of the information is the same, to describe the elements of the charge with sufficient detail so the defendant will have notice of the nature of the offense and be able to defend himself. Jones v. State, 415 So.2d 852 (5 D.C.A.Fla., 1982). The courts appear routinely to refer to both the indictment and information as the accusation or the charge. See, e.g., State v. Hill, 208 So.2d 154 (3 D.C.A.Fla., 1968); Lawson v. State, 215 So.2d 790 (2 D.C.A.Fla., 1968).
The filing of a charge or a complaint generally is held to signal the start of criminal proceedings. In United States v. Patterson, 150 U.S. 65, 68 (1893) the court said:
A criminal charge, strictly speaking, exists only when a formal written complaint has been made against the accused and a prosecution initiated. … In the eyes of the law a person is charged with crime only when he is called upon in a legal proceeding to answer to such a charge. Mere investigation by prosecuting officers, or even the inquiry and consideration by examining magistrates of the propriety of initiating a prosecution, do not of themselves create a criminal charge. The hearing and deciding on a criminal charge is something which takes place only after the criminal charge has been legally made.
In a similar vein, the court in United States v. Scully, 119 F.Supp. 225 (S.D.N.Y.1954), aff’d, 225 F.2d 113 (2nd Cir. 1955), said that criminal proceedings against a particular individual cannot be said to be instituted until a formal charge is openly made against an accused, either by indictment presented or information filed in court, or, at least, by complaint before a magistrate. And see, 22 C.J.S. Criminal Law s 302(a), p. 792, “[t]he complaint or affidavit is the initial step in the prosecution …”; State v. Marshall, 105 N.E.2d 891, 893 (Mun.Ct.Ohio 1952), involving a misdemeanor prosecution for drunken driving, in which the court said, “[a]n affidavit charging an offense is the first step in bringing a misdemeanor before the court.”
Thus, it would appear that when the sworn complaint is used to charge a person with the violation of a misdemeanor, it would be an accusatory document similar to an indictment or an information. Used in this way, the complaint would be an allegation, and the point at which formal action is instituted against an individual. In this sense the complaint would not be a sworn statement of a witness taken during an inquiry into the facts, but would represent the product of the inquiry, when suspicion had focused against a person.
It also appears that proceedings for the issuance of an arrest warrant are formal and accusatory in nature, rather than part of an inquiry. In Campbell v. County of Dade, 113 So.2d 708, 711 (3 D.C.A.Fla., 1959), a case involving the prosecution of a municipal ordinance, the court said, “[a]n arrest warrant is the legal process by which jurisdiction is obtained over the person in a criminal proceeding.” In Cooper v. Lipscomb, 122 So. 5 (Fla.1929), the court viewed the complaint upon which an arrest warrant was issued as the basis for a criminal charge. The defendant was arrested after a warrant was issued under Chs. 8319 and 8433, CGL 1927, which provided that a warrant shall be issued on complaint when made upon affidavit before a magistrate that an offense had been committed. “If, as here, it [the complaint] wholly fails to charge a criminal offense, the petitioner should be discharged,” the court said. Cooper v. Lipscomb, supra, p. 6. See also, Roberts v. Dean, 187 So. 571 (Fla.1939); Foster v. Perry, 70 So. 1007 (Fla.1916). Therefore, a complaint for an arrest warrant would not be a sworn statement of a witness taken during a criminal investigation.
Under Florida law a formal probable cause finding before a magistrate following an arrest takes place in what is called a preliminary proceeding. See, State ex rel. Hardy v. Blount, 261 So.2d 172 (Fla.1972); Baugus v. State, 141 So.2d 264 (Fla.1962); Part III, Fla.R.Cr.P.
The general rule is that:
The preliminary proceedings are part, and generally the commencement, of a criminal proceeding; and their purpose and scope are in general to ascertain whether a crime charged has been committed and, if so, whether there is probable cause to believe that it was committed by the accused. Such proceedings, when set on foot by a private individual, are instituted by the giving of information to a prosecuting officer or by the filing of a complaint before an examining magistrate.
22 C.J.S. Criminal Law s 300, p. 790. The court in Gerstein v. Pugh, 420 U.S. 103 (1975), further noted that a probable cause finding was one of the initial steps in a criminal proceeding. This case involved a challenge by several Dade County, Florida, prisoners who sued in a class action contesting the fact that under then-existing Florida criminal rules they were not entitled to a probable cause hearing before a magistrate after being arrested and detained. The court held the prisoners were constitutionally entitled to such a nonadversary probable cause hearing under the Fourth Amendment after the filing of an information. The court noted such a hearing did not appear to be part of the investigative process:
Because the standards are identical [for the determination of probable cause to issue an arrest warrant and to detain after a warrantless arrest], ordinarily there is no need for further investigation before the probable cause determination can be made. “Presumably, whomever the police arrest they must arrest on ‘probable cause.’ It is not the function of the police to arrest, as it were, at large and to use an interrogating process at police headquarters in order to determine whom they should charge before a committing magistrate on ‘probable cause.’ ” (e.s.)
Gerstein v. Pugh, supra, p. 120, note 21. Cf., Bennett v. U.S., 104 F.2d 209 (D.C.App.1939).
Thus, it would appear that a probable cause hearing after arrest as provided for by Fla.R.Cr.P. 3.131 is more a part of the prosecution of an individual than the informal investigation of a crime. By that point, suspicion has focused on a particular person to the extent that he has been arrested, jailed and then brought before a magistrate to determine independently of the police or the state attorney whether reasonable cause exists to detain him. Formal action has begun, and the parties and issues in the controversy have been defined.
From an examination of the document labeled “Summary of Offense and Probable Cause Affidavit,” it appears that the purpose of this form is to set out for the magistrate the essential details of the offense and to allege the facts that exist showing the person in custody committed it. Cf., s 901.02, F.S.; Fla.R.Cr.P. 3.120; and Benefield v. State, 160 So.2d 706 (Fla.1964), which held that a finding of probable cause to justify arrest without warrant required a showing the officer had information that warranted a man of reasonable caution to hold a belief that a crime had been committed. See also, Sheff v. State, 301 So.2d 13 (1 D.C.A.Fla., 1974); Betancourt v. State, 224 So.2d 378 (3 D.C.A.Fla., 1969); 6A C.J.S. Arrest s 22. In my opinion this document is not a sworn statement of a witness taken during a criminal investigation, but a summary of facts and charges.
Therefore, it appears that neither of these two documents, the complaint and the probable cause affidavit, amount to statements of witnesses taken in the course of a criminal inquiry or investigation. They do not appear to be intended to gather or preserve information, but rather appear to be accusatory documents specifically designed to be used for purposes of prosecution in taking formal action against an individual. While law enforcement officers are empowered to issue notices to appear or written orders to appear in a designated court that serve as complaints or summons in misdemeanor violations (see, Fla.R.Cr.P. 3.125), they are not generally empowered to embark upon criminal prosecutions, to execute and file accusatory documents, or to execute required jurats on accusatory or charging documents, in judicial proceedings or criminal prosecutions. Cf., s 34.13(3), F.S., which authorizes the state attorney to sign affidavits before the county court in misdemeanor prosecutions, and authorizes the county court judge to issue a warrant upon such affidavits.
The power to administer oaths under Ch. 83-147 extends only to sworn statements of witnesses taken during the law enforcement officer’s informal gathering, authentication and preservation of information during an inquiry into the facts. Nothing in this opinion should be taken to imply that a law enforcement officer cannot take a sworn statement of a witness during a criminal investigation that later will be used by the state attorney to establish probable cause or to form an addendum to a criminal complaint. The fact the officer is empowered to take sworn statements only during investigations does not limit the state attorney’s discretion concerning this subsequent use. However, an officer is not empowered to take the sworn statement of another officer or witness for the sole intended purpose of using that document to establish probable cause or to serve as a complaint for direct submission to a magistrate or a court, because such a statement would not be taken during a criminal investigation. The statute does not extend such power to the administration of oaths to witnesses in connection with and as a part of a criminal proceeding or prosecution before a court or a magistrate or the execution of required jurats on accusatory or charging documents.
Therefore, it is my opinion that law enforcement officers as defined by s 943.10, F.S., are not empowered by Ch. 83-147, Laws of Florida, to administer oaths to persons signing complaints and affidavits in connection with and as the initial step in or part of a criminal proceeding or prosecution for a misdemeanor or felony or for the issuance of an arrest warrant or to execute the required jurat on accusatory or charging documents or instruments.
Sincerely,
Jim Smith
Attorney General
Prepared by:
Jason Vail
Assistant Attorney General
http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:G3oi1YKtm8QJ:myfloridalegal.com/ago.nsf/Opinions/6C4E6C03AC45A9F88525658400603C5A+oaths+%22law+enforcement+officer%22+authority&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca
7:21 am KC sends TL a text message that reads “If they dont find her..guess who gets blamed and spends eternity in jail?”
There is no reason to automatically assume that the mother of a kidnapped child will spend eternity in jail. To me, this is as close to making a confession as Casey will ever come.
More accurate would be to change that statement to read,
“Whether they find her or not…guess who gets blamed and spends eternity in jail?”
(Aside from the fact that it is impossible to spend “eternity in jail.”
WinterBelle, it gives me the creeps to hear her imitating Caylee’s voice, too, and then to go on and relay the “conversation” that they had together about the book and the shoes. Casey claims to have been frantic and looking everywhere on a daily basis and yet then expects LE to believe that she had this casual and happy conversation with her missing/kidnapped child…and then resumed her frantic search once again?
Along those same lines of total creepiness…imagine telling her own mother that Caylee would be coming home and that, “She’ll be just as she was,” when at the same time, she had to be counting the days until the body would be nothing more than just mud and swamp.
I am also disgusted beyond description that she was bailed out and spent that time at the home and yet was able to flounce to Baez’s office each day and sleep in a comfortable bed each night with Caylee just down the street in the woods. Who wouldn’t cave in the minute they saw the play house…her clothing…her toys…yet Casey was in the kitchen making spaghetti for Leonard Padilla et al.
Given 10 lifetimes of experience, we still couldn’t relate to or understand a bit of it.
» Here in Northwest Arkansas said: { Feb 13, 2010 – 08:02:23 }
Sorry, Val, I’m afraid I’ve completely gotten-topic re the Timer55 article. Please move to the appropriate place if you would rather not have the comments here.
(That goes for me, too. Apologies, Val, hope you accept.)
» WinterBelle said: { Feb 14, 2010 – 12:02:39 }
Yes, it is like these people live in a parallel universe. And they try to drag everyone around them into it.
William, about the oath/affirmation of truth, aren’t attorneys able to reference official statements during trial? I watch a lot, and read a lot, about true crime, and from what I’ve seen and read (official court proceedings) whether the prosecution or the defense, often times will have a witness refer to their own statement to police, and ask if they were telling the truth, etc.
Mimi: I share your sentiments regarding Casey sleeping in a comfy bed, cooking spaghetti for Padilla and Posse and well, ENJOYING LIFE, while Caylee was in the conditions that she was. To see Casey strutting to Baez’s office, ‘rocking the knotted tee’s (with Caylee’s photo and the ‘have you seen me’ words, no less!), sunglasses, bracelets, necklaces and MAKE-UP’ etc. is simply mind boggling. (WHO was she trying to look ‘good’ for? The locals and the WORLD was getting a firsthand look at a monster)!
I’m simply flabbergasted, stunned, mystified, etc., regarding one Casey Anthony and her sick BEHAVIOUR…as I’ve never been privy to someone to that degree/magnitude (although, I have known/know a few, that if I didn’t know better, I would think are ‘kin’ to Casey!).
I often wonder if experts, psychiatrists, etc., in studying Casey (or reading about her/being familiar with her traits and/or her case), are as ‘stunned’ as most people are…I would assume that these experts are familiar with these ‘type’ people (and not as ‘shockable’, if you will), but I guess what I’m trying to convey is, is Casey like ‘wayyy out there’ (in relations to sick ‘studied’ people)???!!! (I hope I worded that right)…
Please (anyone), before I get pelted with rocks
, I KNOW Casey is a sick, twisted individual…I’m just wondering how ‘off the scale’, if you will, she is in relations to others (who are also deranged)…
Dear Val,
I’ve only been a member of your blog for a few weeks (six wks, give or take), and although I know you have done research (via your shared knowledge/info of this case), I had never accessed anything on this blog, other than the ‘topic’ of the day/week, etc.
Yesterday, William Hill answered a question to another poster (which simultaneously answered a similar question of mine in a previous post, thanks WH!). In his reply, he mentioned accessing ‘Val’s timeline” up at the right, etc.
I did just that in the wee hours of this morning, and I must say, I am IMPRESSED! I’d like to thank you for sharing, what must have been (and continues to be), painstaking hours of toggling back and forth between reading documents, reports, etc.
I thoroughly enjoy reading your intelligent blog and being a participant of same.
Thanks again.
WB (Belinda in Dallas,Tx.)
WinterBelle, I’d say Casey is close to tipping the scale as far as her emotionless (and myriad of other) behavior(s). Not as far as a serial killer or mass murder (but given time, who knows – there is already speculation she might have been planning to get rid of her parents). Her ‘friends’ all knew she lied all the time, when the truth would serve her better; even her parents knew that. We can only speculate what might have happened if she were allowed to continue unchecked.
I am in Northwest Arkansas as well!!!…… and I agree there is no telling what Casey would have been capable of doing….. I still believe that she just might try and blame her Mom for the death….
I am in Northwest Arkansas as well!!!…… and I agree there is no telling what Casey would have been capable of doing….. I
Timer55 Update
In Lee’s ZG deposition on February 27, 2009 (page 127), he said Casey told him her password for her MySpace and possibly her Yahoo email was timer55: “Casey’s password on MySpace and I believe Yahoo at the time, like her, her email address, was Timer 55, T-i-m-e-r 55.”
In Lee’s July 30, 2009 SAO deposition (pages 354-358), he said Casey was in a patrol car on the night of July 15 when he asked for her password, and she told him her password for both her MySpace and her Yahoo email was timer55:
SAO: Okay. The discussion that you and Mr. George had about getting Casey’s passwords while she was sitting in the patrol car–
Lee: Yes.
SAO: –outside the residence, I presume–
Lee: Yes.
SAO: –on July 15th in the late–
Lee: Pretty sure that’s when it was, yes.
SAO: –evening, was she cuffed in the car?
Lee: I don’t think so. I think she was just in the backseat.
(snipped)
SAO: My recollection of your conversation with him is – him, Frank George – is that you were asking for a password on MySpace?
Lee: Yes. I believe Yahoo.
SAO: MySpace and Yahoo?
Lee: Yeah. Well, because she – like, I was trying to get her email password and her MySpace password. Like, her MySpace was under her Roadrunner email account, like her sign-on is under that one.
SAO: Okay.
Lee: And then her Yahoo one obviously is just your Yahoo email. So, yeah. I was trying to confirm the actual email addresses, make sure I had the spelling right because the spelling was just ridiculous and the passwords, which were the same.
SAO: Same password, timer–
Lee: Which was the timer55.
SAO: –55
Lee: Exactly.
SAO: Did you not ask her again for those passwords when you went to jail?
Lee: Right. I verified it again because it was saying invalid, but I come to find out that it was my spelling on the email addresses that were wrong, not the password.
SAO: Okay.
*****
Casey told Cindy on July 25, 2008 that timer55 was her password for both MySpace (Kayseeomaree) and Facebook accounts. So if Casey was giving accurate information in July 2008 and Lee was remembering correctly in July 2009, timer55 was the password Casey was using (as of July 15, 2008) for her MySpace, Facebook, and Yahoo email accounts.
William –
The Significance of a Lawful Oath/Affirmation
by Assistant State Attorney Mary Ann Klein (Seminole County, FL)
(Adapted with permission from material prepared by the Orange County Sheriff’s Office)
There are many instances when an officer may be called upon to administer an oath. For example, when obtaining sworn written or recorded statements from victims and witnesses, affidavits for search warrants, and submitting a Refusal to take the Breath Test Affidavit. Pursuant to Florida Statute 117.10, law enforcement officers are authorized to administer oaths when engaged in the performance of official duties.
Florida Statute 117.10 provides:
Law enforcement officers, correctional officers, and correctional probation officers, as defined in s.943.10, and traffic accident investigation officers and traffic infraction enforcement officers, as described in s.316.640, are authorized to administer oaths when engaged in the performance of official duties. Sections 117.01, 117.04, 117.045, 117.05, and 117.03 do not apply to the provisions of this section. An officer may not notarize his or her own signature.
An oath is a declaration that an oral or written statement is true. It is the equivalent of a pledge. An oath is a formal act signifying the person has undertaken the obligation to speak truthfully. “The key to a valid oath is that perjury will lie for its falsity.” Collins v. State, 465 So.2d 1266 (Fla. 2nd DCA 1985).
The authority to administer oaths includes the authority to administer an affirmation. An affirmation is also a declaration that an oral or written statement is true. Unlike an oath, it does not invoke the name of God. Whenever an oath is required by law, an affirmation may be utilized. A deputy is authorized to accept an affirmation when a witness is unwilling to “swear” to the truthfulness of a statement. A person who makes a false affirmation is also subject to criminal perjury charges.
A legally recognizable oath or affirmation requires a verbal exchange between the notary and the document signer. The signer must indicate that he or she is taking an oath or affirmation. The law enforcement officer administering the oath or affirmation may utilize language that is often used by judges or clerks. For example, the following question is generally recognized as acceptable: “Do you swear (or affirm) that the information contained in this document is true?” Once an affirmative answer is received, the law enforcement officer may complete the notarial certificate indicating that an oath or affirmation was taken.
(snipped)
The Rap Sheet: Legal News for Law Enforcement in Brevard and Seminole Counties
January 2004
Volume XX, Issue 1
http://sa18.state.fl.us/rapsheet/rs_01_04.pdf
[PS - Florida Statute 117.10 has not changed since this piece was written in 2004.]
Maura,
Do you know if a police car would have audio recording when Casey was sitting in the car during those first hours of investigation? Would Casey’s statements as she toured with police, be recorded, and if so, would that recording still be active when Lee visited with Casey? Afterall, a suspect might lean over and give incriminating evidence to a ‘confident’, or direct him to do something, like *hint-hint* yes, check and destroy computer evidence.
Kleat-
I have no idea if the patrol car was equipped with recording equipment in the passenger area. And if the patrol car did have that equipment, we don’t know if it was turned on when Lee spoke to Casey. I suspect there is no audio or video record of that conversation.
Yuri Melich arrived at the house around 3:30am, but I don’t know what he was driving (his own vehicle or an OCSO vehicle). He made no mention in any report of having audio or video capabilities in the car he used when he and Casey drove around.
LE does clearly have vehicles wired for sound and video because they rushed to get Tony Lazzaro into one for his meeting with Lee on July 29. George’s conversation with detectives and FBI agents on the evening of August 14 as they all drove to the jail was recorded, but the detectives had contacted George to say Casey wanted to meet him privately, and they arranged to pick George up in a vehicle that was already wired.
Casey’s conversation with detectives and FBI agents when she was picked up on October 14 after the grand jury returned a murder indictment was recorded; there again, detectives knew they were going to get her, and they made the pick-up in a wired vehicle. Ditto for Tony Lazzaro’s drive-around with detectives on October 16 – LE was prepared for that meeting and picked him up in a wired car.
Since the audio and video (if available) of those four “vehicular” conversations have been released to the public, and since no released report I’ve read references any recorded conversations involving Casey on July 15 when she was in a patrol car, on July 16 when she drove around with Yuri Melich in the morning, on July 16 when she was driven to Universal by John Allen and Appie Wells in the afternoon, or on July 16 in the Universal parking lot when she was reviewing FL driver’s license photos of women named Zenaida Gonzalez, I don’t believe there are any recordings on those two days of conversations Casey participated in when she was inside a vehicle. It’s been 19 months since Cindy called 911 – if those hypothetical recordings existed, we would have heard about them by now.
William Hill said: { Feb 13, 2010 – 01:02:00 }
It is a first degree misdemeanor under state law to lie to the police in Florida. Generally charged under 843.02 – resisting an officer without violence.
*****
The grand jury cited 837.055 – False information to law enforcement during investigation.–Whoever knowingly and willfully gives false information to a law enforcement officer who is conducting a missing person investigation or a felony criminal investigation with the intent to mislead the officer or impede the investigation commits a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.
Count 4. Providing false information to LE
Casey Marie Anthony, on July 16, 2008, did, in violation of Florida Statute 837.055, knowingly and willfully give false information to Yuri Melich, an OCSO law enforcement officer, who was conducting a missing person investigation, with the intent to mislead Yuri Melich or impede his investigation, to wit: that Casey Marie Anthony was employed at Universal Studios Orlando during the year 2008.
Count 5. Providing false information to LE
Casey Marie Anthony, on July 16, 2008, did, in violation of Florida Statute 837.055, knowingly and willfully give false information to Yuri Melich, an OCSO law enforcement officer, who was conducting a missing person investigation, with the intent to mislead Yuri Melich or impede his investigation, to wit: that Casey Marie Anthony left the child Caylee Marie Anthony at the Sawgrass Apartment, 2863 South Conway Road, Apt. 210, Orlando, Florida, with a person identified as Zenaida Fernandez-Gonzalez on June 9, 2008 or any subsequent date.
Count 6. Providing false information to LE
Casey Marie Anthony, on July 16, 2008, did, in violation of Florida Statute 837.055, knowingly and willfully give false information to Yuri Melich, an OCSO law enforcement officer, who was conducting a missing person investigation, with the intent to mislead Yuri Melich or impede his investigation, to wit: that Casey Marie Anthony informed persons identified as Jeffrey Michael Hopkins and Juliette Lewis, former Universal Studios Orlando employees, of the disappearance of the child Caylee Marie Anthony between June 9, 2008 and July 16, 2008.
Count 7. Providing false information to LE
Casey Marie Anthony, on July 16, 2008, did, in violation of Florida Statute 837.055, knowingly and willfully give false information to Yuri Melich, an OCSO law enforcement officer, who was conducting a missing person investigation, with the intent to mislead Yuri Melich or impede his investigation, to wit: that Casey Marie Anthony received a phone call from the child Caylee Marie Anthony on July 15, 2008 at approximately 12:00pm.
Todd Macaluso has left the defense team per WESH
http://www.wesh.com/news/22563647/detail.html
also, regarding kc IN that patrol car around midnite—–just before lee left to go to tony’s for 2 hours.
..she states in her (july 16) early a.m. texts to tony, that she has gone with detectives TWICE to show them where zanny lived etc..
..det. melich, at the end of her 4 a.m interview with him asks if she’s willing to take him to these places where zanny lived—–and they go.
..a). surely det.m. already knew it was a bunch of bull*** ( the officer(s) that took her on this wild goose chase at midnite would have told him as much.) WHY take her again at 4 a.m ? ( unless det.m wanted to see with his own eyes what a wacko kc was!)
..b). she couldn’t have returned home much before 6 a.m.—–yet is texting tony, THEN talks on the phone with him for 2 HOURS between 7:30-9:30—cindy claims they worked on the cayleeismissingpage that a.m. also—-then kc is back w/detectives , off to universal at 12:30————does she never sleep ????
( to answer my own ?–i think the events of the nite kicked her adrenalin into OVERdrive, it’s impossible to sleep when that happens.)
————–and kleat, i agree with you there—–if someone is detained in the back of a patrol car– are family members allowed to continue to talk to them and ask them questions ?bizarre.
Thanks for your thoughts on that for me, Maura.
I’m not at all surprised this is happening. I firmly believe that Lady Justice and Karma are sisters…
NEXT!
************************************************
» lily said: { Feb 14, 2010 – 06:02:24 }
Todd Macaluso has left the defense team per WESH
http://www.wesh.com/news/22563647/detail.html
shocker.
lily said: { Feb 14, 2010 – 06:02:24 }
Todd Macaluso has left the defense team per WESH
http://www.wesh.com/news/22563647/detail.html
“Last year, Macaluso told the court that the defense believed the remains of Anthony’s slain daughter, Caylee, were disposed of after their client was locked in the Orange County correctional facility, proving her innocence.”
..the defense BELIEVED this ? no—- the defense, macaluso in particular—stated—that they had SUBSTANTIAL EVIDENCE! of this——the judge gave them until feb.1/10 —of course they came up with nothing.
..these lawyers are just like the anthony’s ——they change their wording whenever it suits them ——–but, it’s still lies.
Corporal Rendon Fletcher went to Sawgrass before midnight on July 15, and Deputy Adriana Acevedo put Casey in a patrol car and met Fletcher at the complex. Casey pointed out apartment 210. Fletcher said he could see that the apartment was empty, so he asked Casey if she had ever been inside the place; Casey said yes, and it was filled with furniture and toys. Fletcher asked her what kind of vehicle Zenaida drove, and Casey said a silver Ford Focus. Acevedo then drove Casey back to Hopespring while Fletcher waited for the Sawgrass maintenance supervisor. The supervisor said apartment 210 had been vacant since February and only one resident owned a silver Ford Focus, a white female who lived at the other end of the complex. He and Fletcher checked the resident database for variations of Zenaida/Gonzalez/Fernandez and came up negative.
Yuri Melich said he was contacted by Sargeant Reggie Hosey, the shift supervisor, at 12:45am. My guess is Rendon Fletcher called Hosey with a status report after finishing at Sawgrass, and Hosey called Melich, the homicide and child abuse detective.
Yuri Melich arrived at the Anthony house around 3:30am. He went over Casey’s four-page written statement, asked her some questions and offered her a chance to change her story, and then recorded an interview with her from 4:11-4:31am. He then spoke to George and Cindy before taking Casey on the deluxe Zanny tour – 301 North Hillside Drive (the seniors-only complex across from JP’s condo), Sawgrass Apartments, and Crossings at Conway (townhome community where Gloria Gonzalez had owned a condo).
Melich is the lead detective on the case, so he had to thoroughly check out every bit of Casey’s story, even if he was 100% confident after hearing a summary from Hosey that Casey was lying through her teeth. He didn’t have a choice but to drive her around while she spun her tall tale.
lily said: { Feb 14, 2010 – 06:02:24 }
Todd Macaluso has left the defense team per WESH
*****
Thank you for the news update, Lily.
Does this mean the defense no longer has to provide the proof that Caylee’s remains were placed in the woods after Casey was incarcerated. Is this their means for sidestepping the Judge’s deadline after Macaluso publicly shoved his foot in his mouth?
ellejay-
Judge Strickland said he was setting a “loose” deadline of February 1 for the defense to give the state a list of witnesses to back up Macaluso’s claim OR to explain to Judge Strickland why they couldn’t hand over the list by February 1.
It was not a hard or inflexible deadline even though most people wanted to believe it was.
My guess is the defense told Judge Strickland they had already revealed witnesses Laura Buchanan and Joseph Jordan to the state via motion and could not provide a fuller list until they succeeded in getting all 4,000 TES volunteer records disclosed and completed their investigation. Also, a few days before February 1, the defense team met with the prosecutors to work out a mutual discovery schedule.
thank you maura.
..i’m sure YM did a number of things–calls, spoke to people etc- between the call at 12:45 and arriving at hopespring at 3:30-3:45..
..even though baez would like us to believe otherwise ( per his absolute bungling while questioning YM at kc’s bond hearing).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DeLdTCOF2lM&feature=related
Maura said: { Feb 14, 2010 – 10:02:22 }
ellejay-
Judge Strickland said he was setting a “loose” deadline of February 1 for the defense to give the state a list of witnesses to back up Macaluso’s claim OR to explain to Judge Strickland why they couldn’t hand over the list by February 1.
——————————————————————
http://www.wftv.com/news/22415041/detail.html
The judge had set a February 1 deadline for the defense to provide information or witnesses to back up its claim that it has proof someone else, other than Casey, put Caylee’s body in the woods near her home last year.
——————————————————————–
ok, i am obviously misunderstanding that these are 3 seperate instances?( the “give me proof”/discovery/witness lists).
i took it to read, that last oct. —-when malacuso said “they had proof/substantial evidence ——–that kc did not put caylee in the woods..” that the judge was asking for them to back up THIS ( particular ) claim by feb. 1st.
i did view the recent hearing, where the 2 sides were to get together, set reasonable discovery schedules, submit witness lists etc.
so——the ( couple of ) TES volunteers–are not witnesses for the MAIN trial—–but are for this ” kc didn’t put caylee in the woods……” issue ?
..( reading back my own post——does this make any sense? at times, i wish i had the CA “gift of gab”.)
I believe Mark fuhrman’s theory about ‘timer55′ which he did a video on driving from The Anthony’s house on Hopespring to where Caylee’s remains were found ‘the crime scene’ on Suburban Dr. It took 55 seconds hence the timer55 bullshit code. That’s what I choose to believe where the idea of a ‘timer55 code’ came from. It’s all Anthony lying bs crap from when they ‘talked in codes’ to fool everyone. And I firmly believe they all knew where the body was & that Lee or Cindy is the one who sent Dominic Casey tearing through those bags in the woods looking for a dead Caylee. He was close, but not quite close enough.
http://www.wftv.com/news/22564905/detail.html
“….Casey’s lead attorney, Jose Baez told Eyewitness News on Sunday night that Macaluso has entered the alternative disciplinary program with the California Bar, and wouldn’t be able to practice law at this time.
WFTV Legal Analyst Bill Sheaffer says Macaluso has spent most of the past year, dealing with his problems in California. “He does not appear to have played such an integral part in the defense up the this point, that it should rise to the point of a devastating loss to the defense,” said Sheaffer.
Macaluso sent out a statement on Sunday night, saying “I, like Casey, know how difficult it is to lose a family member.”
——-LOSE a family member ????
..although i don’t know which family member macaluso “lost” ——–if it were a family member of his that died ——–how on earth does that compare with caylee?
…she was NEVER lost, missing——–she was MURDERED ( or, as andrea lyon prefers, KILLED——by her own mother.)
..kc did not “lose” a family member——she CHOSE to kill her. big difference.
Elljay:
When I read Macaluso’s ‘lose a family member’ statement, I thought WTH?! These people stick their feet in their mouths at every turn.
If I didn’t know better, I would think they spew these utterances deliberately (to elicit negative responses).
It appears that all who is associated in Casey’s defense (even if they know she’s the KILLER), are getting their due…one by one.
I can only hope I live to see the day Cindy, George and Lee get theirs…
yes……….cindy, in general population WITH kc………oh happy day.
Donna, I agree with you that the Anthonys should all be charged in this case once the state of Florida gets through with Casey. justice for Caylee will not be complete unless they are charged as I hope they should and will be. their crimes are many and they should not be allowed to get away with all they have done in order to prevent justice being served for this innocent little child.
This family also need be be charged with extortion seeing as how they knew Caylee was never a missing child. they knew all along that she was dead.
ellejay-
Macaluso made the statement at a hearing in August. The state filed a motion asking the court to compel the defense to back up the statement with evidence. The defense responded by filing a motion saying the evidence came from their interpretation of the state’s own released discovery and from from defense witness depositions, which are work product and therefore don’t need to be shared with the state.
Strickland said at a hearing in October that Macaluso’s posturing in August had opened the door, and he was therefore setting a “loose February 1 deadline” for the defense to give the state a list of witnesses the defense intends to call at trial to back up Macaluso’s statement OR ELSE to explain to Judge Strickland why they could not meet that deadline.
I watched the hearing and that is exactly what Judge Strickland said. If the media failed to accurately report what Strickand said, it’s out of my hands.
Laura Buchanan and Joseph Jordan are two of the civilian witnesses the defense is planning to use at trial to claim the body was not in the woods prior to Casey Anthony’s incarceration. They would be among the witnesses the defense was ordered to provide to the state by February 1st because they are among the witnesses the defense clearly plans to call at trial to back up Macaluso’s claim.
Judge Strickland made the order loose and gave the defense the option of giving him an explanation if they were not able to hand over information by February 1 because of Florida law governing when the defense has to hand over discovery. By law, the defense lawyers don’t have to tell the state the names of witnesses they are questioning and investigating. They only have to share the names of witnesses they KNOW THEY WILL be calling to the stand at trial.
The defense doesn’t have to share any testing results with the state until the defense 1) knows they will be attempting to introduce those test results at trial, and 2) has a written report to share with the state. The defense doesn’t have to make that decision until the testing is complete.
The defense doesn’t need to give the state the names of any expert witness until they know they will be calling the witness to the stand. At that point, the defense has to give the state the name of the expert witness and any evidence that witness will seek to introduce during the trial. But until the expert’s investigation and examination are complete, the defense doesn’t even need to tell the state the name of the expert.
Judge Strickland can push the defense only so far because Strickland cannot rewrite the laws governing defense discovery obligations.
Maura:
Thanks. I am not sure why my using the search function on the sunshine page only kept bring up the other statute for oaths. So they have the right to administer them. I admit to another error.
Such is life.
Which means that they were sworn statements except for Cindy, I guess, because she objected to making a sworn statement? Beats me. I think I will leave Florida law to the lawyers from now on.
wow…
..thank you maura!
..that’s a TON of information!
..( lesson learned, just b/c it’s in a media article—–not neccessarily true and to the point).
..no wonder the vast majority of discovery, to date, has come from the state.
..j.jordan though—–( and i may have gotten this wrong as well) ——is his testimony admissable ? ( i took it that his illegally recorded conversation was what was in question. correct?)
» ellejay said: | Edit { Feb 14, 2010 – 11:02:34 }
LOL – Hey, Tom, now that you entered lawyer-rehab, maybe you have a few minutes to riddle me this one…
When you lost your family member did you call in to work and ask for a day or two off to take care of the situation, and go to the funeral? Or did you keep going to an imaginary job, swilling every free beer you could bend an elbow for, and humping everything that looked at you?
It seems to me you had to go with the latter to have any true empathy for what “Casey went through”.
Maura,
Beats the piss out of me. I don’t think there has been one single subject on this case that I have created more confusion and misread statements more time than this particular issue right here. Please see my corrected-recorrected first paragraph in the article and I think at this point, we’ve got the bullshit purged from the system.
lol
It’s beyond me how I can continue to screw up the issue of what the password was on the desktop, and still be able to make my original point – but somehow I did it.
I think Macaluso’s statement is stupid. His statement is flawed purposely. How many people have lost a family member? It’s a very large club rather than the exception in life. Most of us know what it feels like to “lose” a family member and it is a difficult and terrible thing to endure.
Casey’s difficulties stem from the fact that LE accuses her of killing her child and have refused to leave her alone about it…her difficulties are the result of having been caught.
(Before that happened, Casey did not have any difficulties at all other than to remain scarce…in fact, she had FUN and the death provided her with long desired freedoms…so, the family member’s DEATH was not what caused Casey’s difficulties.)
There is nothing in most people’s lives to compare her difficulties to.
Val said:
“It’s beyond me how I can continue to screw up the issue of what the password was on the desktop, and still be able to make my original point – but somehow I did it.”
It’s very difficult to chase pathological liars around and make any sense of it at all. You didn’t screw up the issues…the Anthonys did and that’s what happens when honest people try to make sense of dishonest and scrambled up (on purpose?) information. What to throw out and what to keep and when is the information given actually the truth and truth is, even Cindy couldn’t remember what she said half the time…and she’s the expert!
William Hill said: { Feb 15, 2010 – 02:02:24 }
Which means that they were sworn statements except for Cindy, I guess, because she objected to making a sworn statement? Beats me.
*****
Here’s a break-out of the sworn and unsworn testimony provided by George, Cindy, and Lee (in chronological order):
The handwritten OCSO statements given by George, Cindy, and Lee on the night of July 15, 2008 were all sworn statements.
**
At Casey’s July 22, 2008 bond hearing, George, Cindy, and Lee were all sworn in before providing testimony.
**
George’s testimony during his July 24, 2008 OCSO interview was not sworn because George called the detectives and said he wanted to talk to them privately. The detectives knew George had gone behind the backs of Cindy and Lee to meet with them, so it’s understandable they did not ask him to swear to the truth of what he told them that day. The meeting was informal, and I would guess George didn’t realize the conversation was being recorded.
**
At the end of his July 29, 2008 OCSO “timeline” statement, Lee was asked to swear to the truth of his testimony.
**
Neither George nor Cindy was asked to swear to the truth of the information they gave to the FBI on July 30, 2008 (Cindy) and July 31, 2008 (George). Those were not official LE statements, but interviews that George and Cindy requested. FBI Agent Scott Bolin agreed to meet with them, and the interviews took place in a facility in Seminole County that was arranged by FBI Agent Steve McElyea (an agent who works in Seminole County). George and Cindy apparently considered their FBI interviews to be “unofficial,” and they were allegedly blindsided when the videotapes of those interviews were released to the public on November 21. They apparently had not known they were being recorded, much less that the videotapes and transcripts of those conversations would be made public.
Towards the end of Cindy’s July 30 FBI interview, Scott Bolin asked if she would be willing to take a polygraph regarding everything she had just told him. She said yes, but Bolin’s request was not the equivalent of asking her to SWEAR to the truth of her testimony. George was not asked during his July 31 FBI interview if he would be willing to take a polygraph. As far as we know, Lee was never interviewed by the FBI.
**
On August 1 and 4, 2008, Cindy gave official LE statements in her “timeline” interview with OCSO; they didn’t finish on August 1, which is why she had to return. She was not asked to swear at the end of her Friday, August 1 OCSO interview, but she was asked to swear at the end of her Monday, August 4 OCSO interview. She became quite flustered when Melich asked her to swear to the truth of her statements to OCSO at the conclusion of her August 4 interview. She did not refuse to swear to her testimony, but she was clearly caught off guard by the request. Moreover (just to point out a technicality), Yuri Melich asked her to swear to the information she had provided on August 4 (“today”), and did not include any reference to her testimony on August 1. Here is the exchange at the end of her August 4 interview:
Yuri Melich: Could you raise your right hand for me? You swear the information you gave today is true and correct?
Cindy: I didn’t know I was swearing about anything that I – as best to my ability, this is what I remember.
Yuri Melich: Acceptable answer. Thank you.
Cindy: I didn’t know this was a deposition or whatever. I thought it was . . .
Yuri Melich: It was a . . .
Cindy: I thought it was just a timeline.
Yuri Melich: . . . it’s a, it’s a statement.
Cindy: I didn’t do this on, um, Friday. I didn’t swear to anything. . . . I’m just putting it out there, guys.
Yuri Melich: I’m very methodical when I do things.
**
George’s August 4, 2008, OCSO “timeline” interview was an official statement, and he was asked to swear to the truth of his testimony at the end of the interview.
**
George’s October 14, 2008 grand jury testimony was sworn testimony.
**
Lee’s February 27, 2009 civil deposition was sworn testimony.
**
Cindy’s April 9, 2009 civil deposition was sworn testimony.
**
George’s April 9, 2009 civil deposition was sworn testimony.
**
Cindy’s July 28-29 SAO deposition was sworn testimony.
**
Lee’s July 30, 2009 SAO deposition was sworn testimony.
**
George’s August 5, 2009 SAO deposition was sworn testimony.
**
George’s August 21, 2009 testimony during a hearing to discuss the arrangements between the Anthony family and the Padilla crew was sworn testimony.
ellejay said: { Feb 15, 2010 – 03:02:05 }
..j.jordan though—–( and i may have gotten this wrong as well) ——is his testimony admissable ? ( i took it that his illegally recorded conversation was what was in question. correct?)
*****
The only thing that is inadmissible is the interview with Mort Smith that Jordan illegally recorded. That recording has been sealed by the court.
Any statement he has provided (such as his written statement for the defense and his SAO deposition) or will provide going forward are admissible so long as they’re legally obtained.
Legally – how long can this trial be put off without one side or the other crying foul ?
Nauseated : Forever! The ability to cry foul belongs to the defendant who gave that up when she passed on that itty bitty detail clause called a “speedy trial clause”…..she just HANDED the state all the time in the world to shore up their case against her while I’m sure her ever loyal atty of record “ASS U MEd” that memories and the public’s attitude would fade!
Joypath said:
“the defendant who gave that up when she passed on that itty bitty detail clause called a “speedy trial clause”…..she just HANDED the state all the time in the world to shore up their case against her ”
ROTFLMAO! And to think we haven’t even gotten to the part where the Deeefense will seek continuance after continuance, as they scour the entire planet looking for some scrap of evidence to support her innocense! But because there isn’t any, as the recent high-tailing it by Muscleosco (deliberately misspelled) would seem to indicate, this trial could go on and on for so long that she may eventually choke to death on a Frito!
I need to quit my job. I miss too much when I gotta work! Maura, Val, all (you too William) great posts. I’m going to kick back and devour them all now.
Willow! WOW, I so understand what you mean! I HATE missing a minute here and may I admit on a few SELECT other sites where one can READ intelligent discourse! But when it comes to research and content, mercy sakes, here’s the PLACE to be!
MERCI mes amis~
PS Gang: more goodies to be released!!!!!!!
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/os-casey-anthony-discovery-20100215,0,6246696.story
Joypath,
Mon chere! C’est vrai! Certainement! Paurve, nous. Non? Je n’ai pas assez de temps.
Sigh.
LOL Willow, we are so lucky that I’ve forgotten most of my LATIN! BTW: you look way too young to have a 19 y/o child! you must have been a neo-natal bride!
Joypath!!!!!! Merci Beaucoup!!!!!! Child bride? Well, I was …. but my oldest is going to be …. well …. 30 Something!
In case anyone is interested. What you would like to ask Casey if she took the stand. Very interesting reading.
http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/entertainment_tv_tvblog/2010/02/casey-anthony-what-would-you-ask-if-she-took-the-stand.html
Neonatal bride. I love it! I’m claiming it! That makes me 30 something too! (Just don’t tell my bones.)
» Kimberlee said: { Feb 14, 2010 – 03:02:24 }
I am in Northwest Arkansas as well!!!…… and I agree there is no telling what Casey would have been capable of doing….. I still believe that she just might try and blame her Mom for the death….
Wow, Kimberlee – maybe we’re cousins
Maura:
Okay, now you are just showing off! 8O You got me with the first two two-by-fours, this last one was just plain mean…
Thanks for the concise info on sworn and not sworn statements. You either have eidetic memory or a heck of a filing system, or both!
I think that I have only seen you make two mistakes in all of your posting – much better track record than me….
Hummph! 
Just kidding! 
Keep em coming kiddo, facts are a wonderful thing….
Well, thank you, William. I assure you I have made many, many mistakes since I began commenting online about this case in September 2008. And if I hadn’t begun taking detailed notes around November 2008, I would make many more mistakes.
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