A Look at the Laptop

I have never commented here before so…HI! and Thank you for this post. I have believed that Lee tinkered with the laptop from the time i heard his story of going to get it and what do you know? Blue screen! And his being gone 2 hours.

Question: If he did tinker with it, can that info be retrieved? And can police tell that someone delibriately crashed it and when it crashed?

Thanks again.

I appreciate this all being laid out there like this. I can’t barely believe Casey would leave without her phone, but this is obviously true if LE picked it up. I can’t believe Lee would “cause the blue screen of death” whilst still under the usumption Casey was innocent. When Cindy came to the door Casey was playing on the laptop. Why was it plugged in in the kithchen when Lee arrives and finds the death screen? It’s BS. I wonder how long Tony says Lee was at the house. Probably half an hour less than Lee claims. And then there will be a call from the Athony house to Lee telling him to kill the computer. Because Cindy has realized her nightmare has come true. Let’s start damage controll. Erase that laptop because she might have said something about me the night of the 15th.

Valhall, we are having a conversation here http://hubpages.com/hub/The-details-Casey-Anthony-didnt-want-you-to-know about the tiffany ring. What are your thoughts on that?

Hi T2M and Karen Lee,

I do not know what happened to the laptop. It could have, in fact, gotten a virus to where when it was last shut down caused it not to boot when next restarted. I know this happens with certain viruses. But there is something wrong with Lee’s statements concerning what happened with the laptop when he arrived at Tony’s. That I can say with confidence. In fact, with confidence we can say there was something wrong with his account in the initial interview with OCSO in July 2008 because before that interview was over he went from specifically (and with detail!) describing attempting to start the laptop up, getting the text screen on the laptop being shutdown abnormally, stating he picked an option on that screen and then getting the BSOD…TO it was sitting on the kitchen counter running when he got there.

So it matters not what additional information we pull in (such as Tony’s statement about Casey being on the laptop when Cindy and Amy arrived), or the fact it appears some kind of back-up activity may have happened as late as 10:45 pm, etc. because Lee’s statement is blatantly untrue in some regard – we just can’t tell which regard. Long story short, the two scenarios he gave in the same interview are mutually exclusive.

Oh, and the laptop was used on July 16th, so apparently there was no BSOD the very next morning.

Karen Lee,

I really haven’t looked into the ring any. Primarily because what I’ve noticed is that there is very little information on it to begin with.

There is one more thing I want to comment on as well about Lee’s initial interview with OCSO. If you’ve ever read my Timeline

http://www.thehinkymeter.com/Library/CMA/timeline.html

you will notice that in the summary of this interview with Lee when I get to the part where he initially states that he attempted to turn the laptop on, I have a comment asking “why would he do this???”. I placed that question there from the first moment I reviewed that interview transcript when it was first released. It makes no sense to me to arrive at a strangers house, under the conditions Lee was operating, and decide – Hey, I’m going to fire this laptop up guys and see what I can see!

Totally illogical behavior, as far as I’m concerned.

Ive always thought there was something off about Lee being gone so long on that trip to retrieve the laptop. But for now my question is…Casey didnt have her phone or did she? How did Lee get Tony’s number?

Valhall,
Brilliantly observed, again. You really are very good at pulling all these details together and laying it out for us. Not a small amount of work!
I also wondered about his behaviour that night. Who cares about personal items when a child is missing?!
I agree, it makes no sense.

Just a little side note, Fox is reporting a document release today.

Mornin’ Val,

Wow. There you go again! Being such a supersleuth! Are you sure you’re in the right profession? Who’d have thought of such things regarding the laptop? Only you and the computer forensics folk! But anyway, regarding the laptop, would it be reasonable to assume that maybe Casey began the task, having been forewarned by Cindy that the car had been located and they were picking it up, and in her haste, upon Cindy’s arrival at Tony’s, shut it down before it completed its processes, such as the process of deleting files, thus the “improper shutdown” message upon Lee trying to boot it up? Could Lee have finished what Casey started, but failed to complete?

I still tend to wonder if Casey didn’t tell Lee more than Lee admitted to, during their little tete-a-tete in the bedroom which Cindy interrupted, but we may never know that. I would like to know though, why Lee would go to Tony’s apartment at that late hour to pick up Casey’s belongings if in fact he knew OCSO had already picked up her cellphone. Couldn’t clothing and what not wait until morning? Did OCSO send him? I don’t recall.

But for all of your “food for thought” I’d surely be suffering OBS. (Organic Brain Syndrome) :0)!

Danna,

Lee states that he got Tony’s number via Cindy who got it from Amy.

Willow,

Two points:

1. Lee is consistent in saying he was going ONLY for the laptop and didn’t even know there would be clothes. So this wasn’t so much for personal items, as it was to get that laptop. Since Cindy claims she didn’t even know the laptop was gone until Lee came back with it, he could not have been acting on Cindy’s request (I crack myself up sometimes). ANYWAYS, he went to get the LAPTOP…period.

2. The text screen that Lee describes in his “first rendition” (i.e. when the laptop was OFF and he turned it ON) will be obtained if you do a hard shutdown. In other words, if you need to shut the laptop down immediately and you just hold the power button down until it shuts down without going through the Windows’ shutdown process, next time you boot up, you’ll get that screen. So Casey didn’t need to have initiated some type of format process, or anything else, she could have just shut it down improperly. But in reading all the accounts of when Cindy and Amy showed up to get her, I’m not finding a good spot to work that action in.

QB,

In light of what I said in 1 up there (i.e. this WASN’T to go get “personal items” the thing I find most bizarre is Lee stating he has just entered a stranger’s apartment, his niece is missing, his parents’ home is invaded by law enforcement, and he’s going to dick with the computer? How do you work that in to the introductions. “Hey, guys, nice to meet you, excuse me while I go over here and play super-sleuth on my sister’s laptop. Just go about your business over there….btw, who’s winning?”

Thanks Val…..I cant keep all these details straight.

What I have found odd is when LE got to the house, lee went in the other room and was on the desk top computer. Maybe he found something out then, that Casey was doing something. He had to of been checking something out. Why was he even on the desk top home computer when they were there? That would be the last thing I would be doing if cops were swarming my house and my niece was missing. Just thinking out loud.

In AL’s interview with LE do they ever question him how long LA was there and what exactly took place while he was there?

Thanks for the answer, like you and others i have to wonder why a laptop or any other “thing” was so important at a time like that. I have to think that in the same situation, most people would pretty much forget such things. That laptop was in the forefront if their minds.

Didn;t I read where Lee said he “cleaned Up” somethings, like her myspace page?

I think i did read that.

shyloh,

TL and his roommates were all asked about Lee’s visit and they confirm he was there for a while talking to them. None of them mention him piddle-dicking with the laptop.

T2M,

Yes, Lee states that “they” (i.e. the Anthonys) deleted a lot of pictures off Casey’s Myspace page when they were converting it to the Cayleeismissing Myspace. I guess starting a new account to preserve evidence was totally out of the question.

OK I thought I read that, when you consider that she was telling them she communicated with ZFG through email and other electronic means you would THINK they would be carefull not to touch any of that. hmmm.

Lee reminds me a little bit of Casey. He sometimes gets long winded in his answers like Casey did when she was lying. Note when Lee is telling them about the color of the screen and turning it on he goes into great depth in explaining how computers and viruses work. I think he just may have been trying to cover up his possible tampering with the laptop. I find it extremely odd that he even tuned it on. What was his excuse? “Just to see”. Makes no sense. I also find it odd that Casey instructed him to get her cell and laptop and that was it. She didn’t want her purse with money and identification? She didn’t want her clothes? Just the lap top and cell phones? The two items that were most incriminating to her. The cell in which she texted 24/7 on but NEVER to the “Nanny”. The lap top in which she spent a lot of time on while she was supposed to be at Universal.

Great Job Val!

Inconsistant stories about the laptop and as stated above, Tony did not mention Lee using the laptop, leads me to believe Lee did what he did in the car after he left Tony’s. Deleting all the e-mails would certainly help their story about a nanny. If a horrible accident happended with the data during the time in question nothing could be proved or disproved. Fortunately for Caylee, LE got to the cell phone before it was accidently destroyed like the card in her phone that she took out and put in her pocket. Who does that?

All the lies are a house of cards and I have a feeling the state has the fan ready to hook up.

BTW. Keep up the great work Val (and everyone else who posts such great comments).

I’ve always thought that Casey knew her mother and Amy were on their way to Tony’s. Before Cindy picked Amy up at the mall, I believe Amy would probably have been confused about what was going on and would have wanted to protect her “friend”. Having no reason to doubt Casey at that point, it would have been natural for Amy to call her, tell her she just talked to her mother, and ask “what’s up?”. Anyway, if Casey knew they were coming, she may have been deleting things from the laptop when they knocked on the door. This would explain a hard, fast shutdown to avoid having her mother see what she was doing.

Sure would like to know what was so incriminating in those emails. Any chance that they were recovered?

Gummi, don’t you think the email server would have those emails? like yahoo or hotmail, aren’t they able to store those?

Gummi,

The receiver of her e-mails would still have their copy.

Shyloh that is a great point about Lee using the Anthony desktop BEFORE going over to Tony’s place. . It does sound to me like the little garage talk had to do with what she may have wanted him to recover or delete from the laptop – why would they need to go out to that horrific, stinking garage when he could have talked to her in the house unless they did not want to be overheard? He may not have wanted to take care of things on the desktop if it was web-based activiity since the place was already crawling with LE . And if she had other stuff on the desktop that may also have been his intention and used all the virus talk as a cover.

I can see him sitting at Tony’s during his talk playing around with the laptop saying “I’m looking for clues” before he went all bsod. I really hope that AL was questioned about LA’s activities, particularly how much time he spent with the desktop, when he came over in much more detail than we have previously heard.

Maybe that’s what they meant when they said “We know what you did” to Lee.

I read here all the time but this is the first time I’ve ever posted anything. Another great article!! Thank you

What I’ve pasted below is what has my “huh??” meter going. In Lee’s statement below he says he noticed things early on etc. IF he got the blue screen of death, how in the heck could he have noticed or looked at anything? This tells me that he is not being truthful. I believe he looked at things, deleted things, and then purposely deleted one of the files needed for Windows to operate properly.

EE: Well that would make sense that if you went and got the computer on July 15th, and it appeared to you that maybe it crashed because of a deleting issue, that maybe everything was deleted.
LA: Someone would have had to manually log into her Yahoo account to delete it. But absolutely, if someone actually deleted all the files on the computer it would make perfect sense that someone would go through and delete all of her messages at that point as well. Absolutely.
EE: And you say there’s also Myspace deleting issues?
LA: Yes. Now these deleting issues happened prior though. Uhm, around uh, the Fourth of July up until dating back to April 24th there’s a very large gap of comments that have been deleted and that were deleted on that, on that 4th date, that July Fourth date. All of those messages were deleted for whatever reason during that time. So I noticed that early on.

Apology for the length, Val.

don’t think there is any doubt that electronic communications on computers and cell phones were deleted by the Anthonys. But I do believe that on July 4, it was Casey who deleted the MySpace comments from April 24 through July 4 because she realized, from the events of the night of July 3, that both Cindy and Lee had been looking at her posts and comments to see what she had been up to. I also think Casey screwed up the laptop herself on the evening of July 15 before Amy and Cindy arrived.

I accept as true Tony Lazzaro’s Scared Monkey comment that the laptop already had a blue screen before Lee got there that night and that Tony and the OCSO deputy who preceded Lee had tried to fix the laptop but could not figure out what was wrong with it. Tony said he and the deputy decided to leave the laptop for Lee. I am going to trust that Klaasend verified Tony L’s identity before he started answering questions on SM, and I cannot believe Tony would concoct a story about working with an OCSO deputy to get the laptop running if that did not happen.

Here is what Tony said about the laptop when he answered questions at Scared Monkeys last September:

Reply #55 on: September 25, 2008, 11:37:39 PM

yeah well she was on it when amy came to the door i was playing mlb 2k8 with nate and it was plugged in cuz when the deputy that came to look at my place for caylee i told him that it was casey’s laptop and we all tried turning it on thought it was dead so we plugged it in and found out then that computer wasnt working and im a smart man with MACs but not PCs so we (including the deputy) just closed it and i told lee about it and he said he would look at it when he got there.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=3434.0

Moreover, during the July 29 undercover “wired car” meeting between Tony and Lee, Lee was describing Casey’s activities that had been discovered and that he had discussed with Detective Eric Edwards for four hours that afternoon (Lee mentioned the movie and Target receipts) and said, “We’ve pretty much found out that she definitely didn’t work unless she did something for you,” and Tony said it was nothing like that and that Casey claimed to be working via the laptop. Lee said, “You remember that night, how we couldn’t even get on to it.” And Tony said he didn’t understand it because Casey had been using the laptop earlier. That exchange confirms for me that the laptop was damaged before Lee arrived at Tony’s apartment.

The deputy who had gone to pick up Casey’s phone was back at the Anthony house at 11:55pm calling through the cell phone contact list, and Lee left the Anthony house shortly after. Lee left shortly after midnight, went to Tony’s, and returned to the Anthony residence at 2:25am. It’s a 20-minute drive each way, so he had about one hour and forty minutes unaccounted for (deducting the 40-minute RT). But Nathan said he, Tony, and Lee had a long conversation when Lee came to pick up Casey’s things, and from the July 29 wiretapped conversation, it appears that Lee and Tony tried to get the laptop working while Lee was in the apartment, so I’m not convinced Lee had time that night to find a quiet place to fix the problem and then start deleting files (a popular theory). I’m not saying Lee never deleted anything from an Anthony computer, but I don’t believe he deleted anything from the laptop before he returned to the Anthony house at 2:25am.

From Tony’s SM comment, Tony and the deputy had taken the laptop to the kitchen counter and plugged it in while they were trying to get rid of the blue screen. When they could not resolve the problem, Tony said they shut the laptop but apparently left it plugged in on the counter. So when Lee got there, the laptop was plugged in on the counter and maybe had powered itself off automatically.

As far as I’m concerned, Casey screwed up the computer herself and was sitting on the couch either trying to fix it or was in the process of screwing it up when Amy knocked on the door around 7:00-7:15pm. Tony said Casey was sitting on the couch using the laptop when Amy knocked on the door, but Tony never said he could see the screen. She could easily have been tucked into a corner of the couch with the laptop turned in such a way that Tony could not see the screen.

Casey knew from Cindy’s text messages that a shoe had dropped:

4:27pm Cindy text to Casey: “Call me asap major prob”
4:44pm Casey text Cindy (unknown message)
4:45pm Cindy text to Casey: “Call me”
4:48pm Casey text to Cindy (unknown message)

I think Casey was trying to get Cindy to describe the “major prob” via text, but Cindy wouldn’t tell her (and Casey wasn’t going to call without knowing). We have no way of knowing what Cindy and Casey discussed during the phone calls at 12:58pm and 1:11pm, but my guess is Cindy mentioned a certified letter but said nothing about learning that the Pontiac had been towed. I am surmising that Cindy wanted all the details from Johnson’s before she confronted Casey and that Cindy wanted a face-to-face confrontation. At the very least, she didn’t want to give Casey any warning about the towing until Cindy had the all the towing details lined up before giving Casey a chance to “explain.”

The reason I believe Casey knew the problem had something to do with the certified letter at the post office but did not know her parents had found the car is that immediately after getting Cindy’s “major prob” and “call me” text messages, Casey sent a text to Amy about Amy’s camera.

4:53pm Casey text to Amy: “I think your camera is at my parents. I’ll check later to be sure.”

5:22pm Amy text to Casey: “No, it’s not. I must have put down the wrong address because it came back there. I’ll just have it sent to the boys house.”

5:30pm Casey text to Amy: “Oh ok. My Mom had texted me something about it.”

Back on June 17, when Amy believed Casey was getting the Anthony house and would be living there with Casey and Caylee, Amy asked Casey for the address:

Amy text to Casey: What is your address? I’m going to the post office to do a change of address in a little bit.

11:28am Casey text to Amy: 4937 Hopespring Drive, Orlando, FL 32829

Amy text to Casey: Thanks!

Casey knew George and Cindy had been very unhappy and rather confused that Amy Huizenga filed a change-of-address to 4937 Hopespring Drive. Cindy mentioned the change-of-address notice in her FBI interview on July 30, 2008. She told Scott Bolin that a red flag came to George and Cindy around the third week of June when they got a notice of address change from the USPS. It was from Amy Huizenga with the Anthony’s address on it. When Cindy asked Casey about it, Casey said Amy wanted to send a package to the Anthony house instead of sending it to the Oviedo address. Cindy said she explained to Casey that Amy didn’t need to fill out a change of address to send a package to someone else’s house.

At the end of June, Casey informed Amy that Cindy decided not to turn over the house to Casey, and Amy remembered her camera was being shipped to the Anthony residence, and asked Casey what to do. Casey told Amy on June 29 to go ahead and still use that address for her camera delivery.

Amy text to Casey: “Sorry! Hey, my camera is being shipped to your house. What should I do about that?”

12:38pm Casey text to Amy: “How soon?”

Amy text to Casey: “I don’t know. Once it’s fixed?”

2:47pm Casey text to Amy: “I wasn’t sure if it was already done. Have it sent to the house. I have a lot of details to fill you in on. I’ll call you later on.”

A week later, on July 7, the day before Amy’s flight to PR, she asked Casey about the camera:

Amy text to Casey: “You don’t know if my camera came yet do you?”

2:41pm Casey text to Amy: “My mom said it hasn’t. I’m going to check again later.”

So on July 15, Casey was clearly hoping the “major prob” was Cindy’s overreaction to the delivery of Amy’s camera. When Amy responded that the camera had already been returned to the shop and rerouted to JP’s address, Casey likely knew IMO that the certified letter was related to the Pontiac.

And not that we can rely on Cindy’s testimony to LE, but Cindy did imply last summer that she had not told Casey about finding the Pontiac until she found Casey at Tony’s:

Cindy: “Um, so Casey agreed to go with me. I said we need to talk. You need to do some explaining. I said, we have the car. We have, we found the Pontiac, it’s not where, obviously, you’re not in Jacksonville and neither is the car. So, I said you need to tell me where Caylee’s at.” (Page 36, July 30 FBI interview)

So by 5:30pm on July 15, Casey knew there was a major problem that was probably related to the certified letter, and she had eliminated Amy’s camera delivery as the source of Cindy’s anxiety. She probably suspected it was a big problem since Cindy apparently would not reveal the matter in a text message and wanted to speak to Casey.

This is when I believe Casey started to panic. Even though she had been receiving zombie debt collection calls about her impending phone suspension for nonpayment for at least a week, it was only after getting Cindy’s “major prob” text and Amy’s ‘not my camera’ text that Casey initiated the transfer of funds from Amy’s checking account to pay her cell bill.

Val wrote above, “Now, without having all the data we need to thoroughly look at all the activity on the laptop, using the Safari and IE data we do have, it appears the last Internet activity we can discern on the laptop was around 5:42 to 5:48 pm on the 15th.”

On July 15, Casey initiated an electronic transfer of $574 from Amy’s checking account to her AT&T account. At 6:30pm, Casey received AT&T text message on her cell phone that a debit had been authorized to pay for Casey’s cell phone bill. The text read: “AT&T Free msg: Pmt conf #QPSCAC237316569. Bank Acct debit authorized for $574.60 on 07/15/08 and successfully posted to Acct 04985420-001-04.”

Her calls to AT&T billing line up with her Internet activity and the transfer confirmation.

5:42pm Casey called AT&T Bill Past Due line (3 seconds)
5:59pm Casey called AT&T Bill Past Due line (66 seconds)
6:26pm Casey called AT&T Bill Past Due line (175 seconds)

The 5:42 to 5:48 pm Internet usage does correspond with the electronic debit, but the timing is extremely tight because Casey apparently went out grocery shopping since one of her receipts on Lee’s handwritten list was for an $88.45 cash purchase at Winn Dixie at 6:04pm on July 15. That Winn Dixie is ½ mile from Tony’s apartment, but if she was in Tony’s apartment using the laptop until 5:48pm, she only had 16 minutes to travel from the apartment to Winn Dixie, pick up $88.45 worth of groceries, and get through the check-out for the order to be rung up by 6:04pm.

She did not have a car at that point, so it’s possible Tony was in the Jeep waiting to drive her to Winn Dixie. She could have hopped in the Jeep, been driven to Winn Dixie, and dropped off at the door, which would have given her about 8-10 minutes to shop. If she found an unoccupied cashier, then the timeline, while tight, could still work. It’s also possible Casey sent Tony to Winn Dixie with a list of items to pick and some of Amy’s cash, but that seems unlikely.

Let’s say they returned to Tony’s, ate dinner, and then settled down on the couch (Tony and Nathan playing a video game while Casey fiddled with the laptop). It’s my opinion that after returning from Winn Dixie and receiving the AT&T transfer confirmation, Casey set about trying to delete incriminating evidence from the laptop.

I’ve always wondered why Casey waited until the evening of July 15 to use Amy’s bank account to pay the overdue bill. Casey had the checks on July 8 and had received zombie debt collection calls on July 8 and 10. My belief is that she had not considered paying her cell bill with Amy’s bank funds until she panicked around 5:30pm on July 15. She knew her time was running out and knew Cindy would do something desperate if she called Casey’s cell and got a “the number you are trying to reach has been disconnected” message.

But even with a working phone, I think Casey knew her dodge-and-weave strategy was not going to work much longer. As noted, I believe she did panic at that point, and once she received the AT&T transfer confirmation, she may have attempted some kind of global delete of the hard drive. At any rate, I am personally convinced that Casey caused the blue screen problem.

PS There are screen shots in discovery of Cindy’s “My Caylee is Missing” MySpace page and Casey’s “Diary of Days” MySpace page. A date-stamp of July 16 is printed on the bottom of each screen-shot as part of the URL, but those screen shots could not have been printed at the Anthony residence because Yuri needed the zip drive on the morning of July 16 because the Anthony printer was out of ink. The HP was not picked up until noon on July 17, so my guess is a) either someone at OCSO was called in the early morning hours of July 16 and told to print interesting pages or b) those pages were printed on the night of July 16 when OCSO computer forensics began to search the laptop.

In the computer forensics files, Cindy’s “My Caylee is Missing” page was found in unallocated space (deleted files), so I don’t personally believe anyone attempted to surgically delete incriminating MySpace posts until after the laptop was taken into evidence around 5:00-6:00pm on July 16 by Detective Charity Beasley.

I have a question… If Casey’s cell phone was at Tony’s house on the night of the 15th, and we know she doesn’t know Tony’s phone number by heart, then how did Lee call Tony to tell him he was coming over to pick up the laptop and cell phone? Before that night, Lee didn’t even know that Tony L. existed! But yet he was able to call Tony? How?

Everyone that posted here has made so many wonderful points regarding that night. Here is my two cents worth…. I agree with Valhall that, why was Lee is looking at the laptop for information at that point? And why wouldn’t Casey have told LE, “while you are picking up my phone, can you grab the laptop too? There may be some information on it regarding Zanny. Instead, she lets Lee pick it up later? I think Casey told Lee there was some incriminating evidence on there and for him to delete her Yahoo account for her. I am not sure at this point, what the lost information would tell or not tell, since Casey kept the information Caylee was gone to herself. I don’t see her posting it anywhere in an email to someone. i do think that when the prosecution gets the family up on the stand, they are going to show they never really believed Casey’s first story to begin with.

Never noticed this until this thread, Val:

July 15:

4:27p Cindy text to Casey: “Call me asap major prob”

4:40p Last access for Casey’s Diary of Days file on the Compac laptop

4:44p Casey sent text message to Cindy’s cell phone (unknown message)

Haven’t read all the replies, but, wouldn’t you think that since the police went to TL’s to retrieve that all important cell phone, they would have also gotton the laptop at the same time?

Casey is sitting there telling them that she communicated with the nanny with the cell, and, also, her laptop through myspace.
Course, “that” story may have came into play later.

At any rate, LE certainly would have asked what was at TL place, since they knew to go get her cell phone.
Why didn’t ANYONE mention the laptop at the same time???

Lee absolutly did some midnight tinkering on that laptop on the direction of either Casey or Cindy, IMO.
And, he probably took it to his home to do so.

Just read up a couple of replies, and in regards to Casey’s yahoo account.

Remember in the jail house visits, where Lee is quiz-bizzing Casey about passwords, etc.
He ALREADY knew what passwords were to certain accounts, by both of their admissions.

Why would he have had passwords to her accounts, at any time to begin with.
The very reason for passwords is to keep people OUT.

Now, will go back and try to catch up = sorry for the sudden interuptions.

July 15:

Tony Lazzaro called Amy using Casey’s cell phone at 9:27pm (70 seconds). He tried her again a couple of times around 10pm but wasn’t able to reach her, so maybe he added her phone number to his Blackberry and tried her again using his Blackberry instead of Casey’s Nokia (we don’t have his phone records or Amy’s phone records – only text messages). And he may have given Amy his cell phone number when he talked to her at 9:27pm.

Cindy called Amy around 11:00pm to tell her about Caylee’s “kidnapping.” Amy said she talked to Lee after talking to Cindy. If Amy had Tony’s cell phone number from their prior calls, Lee may have asked her for his number.

A deputy went to Tony’s around 11:00pm to get Casey’s cell phone and had returned to the Anthony house before Lee left for Tony’s because someone was calling through Casey’s contact list beginning at 11:55pm (Lee left after midnight).

Lee would have been able to get Tony’s number from the deputy who had Casey’s phone or possibly from Amy.

Please ignore my question above about Lee having Tony’s phone number. I just read upthread and saw the answer. Thanx!

Okay, guys, I got a real quick look at the DOCS released today. There’s a bit on the water levels in the area, Val. Also, there are some pics of Caylee with Casey, I don’t know where they are. Tony’s maybe? She’s wearing the “T”. Just home to drop off, and go.

Humble has the docs (Is he Rick Plesea?) And WFTV. They also show pics of the posters with the duct tape! YES! Runnin’…………………………>

Gummi: Cindy stated in an interview that she called Casey once she found out about the car for Casey to explain. I think Casey brushed her off or didn’t pick up and it went to voice mail. I’ll have to go back and find it.

I hate the sight of the blue death screen, however I was told by my son who loves to work on computers, that all of us can kill the computer. What he does say is that you have to have computer knowledge. Lee messed with it and he knows it, they have inherited the ability to lie and when they do they go way over the call of duty in doing so, it is A’s genetic profile! $indy, Lee, Casey and George.

I agree that it probably was Casey (and not Lee) deleting emails and laptop files — tying up lose ends so to speak, spurred by Cindy’s ‘call me asap big prob’ text(s). The timing fits, in my opinion. The charade had gone on as long as she could string it. Her mom was pissed and threatening her and contacting her friends trying to track her down, Amy was back from her vacation and the stolen checks/money would come to light very soon, she was out of funds, her phone was about to be cut off, she no longer had a car, not to mention Caylee had been missing a month and just wasn’t coming back — she was in a bad place, going nowhere fast. I also think she had some sort of big finale-type plan in her mind. Perhaps her “addiction” to lying, stealing, using, and manipulating had reached the terminal stage, as all untreated addictions do, and in her case “terminal” applies to other people. I bet you she had plans that she just didn’t have time to get to. And I bet those plans involved harm to George and Cindy. JMO

But I don’t think she planned the ZFG kidnapping story in advance; I think it popped out of her mouth while her mother was berating her — she just came up with a lie instantly. I think she just fell into the normal “lie to Cindy and George with lots of fake details” mode that she had used so often in the past with them and with others (Dad had a mini-stroke so I can’t go to Jacksonville; I’m late because the nanny had a car accident on the road to Tampa where we were all going so I could work and blah, blah, blah). She was deflecting Cindy away from her, getting out of the bullseye, so to speak.

But back to the moments of that last afternoon before Cindy showed up at Tony’s: what was Casey thinking at this point in the timeline? No Caylee, no parental support, no money, losing Amy (& Ricardo) as friends and as a place to stay, no phone, no car. I shudder to think what her plans to get out of this situation were.

I think the fact that Casey abandoned her car at the Amscot and then when it obviously was gone from that parking lot she didn’t either a) try to find out if it had been towed and retrieve it or b) report it stolen, is evidence against her in that there would have to have been drastic and insurmountable reasons for her to give up her car since she had absolutely no money or resources to get another. Like her constant texting, she was absolutely dependent on that car for her driving around town from place to place to place every day. Yet she abandoned it.

I love this site, Val, for the science and the thoughtfulness and the thoroughness. My personal interest is in the psychology involved. Thank you and all the posters!

Thanks again, Maura. I think this “corruption” of the laptop occurred sometime after the last activity we know of on the computer (around 5:42) and before Cindy and Amy arrived. Let’s look at what this activity was:

At 5:42 Casey appears to have had both her IE and Safari browsers open at the same time. On the Safari browser she was at her AOL log-in screen. On her IE browser she was on some site (can’t be certain which, but will explain where I think it was) that the ads appeared to update that generated three cookies on her computer.

Now, it is my opinion the IE browser had been sitting, unused, for several hours on her Photobucket account. I say this because we see a cookie set at 9:12 am on the 15th for Photobucket, we see her accessing files that all appear to be jpegs from 9:15 to 9:31 am, and then some more jpegs at 12:47 to 12:48 pm. There really is NO user activity listed past this, until the new ad cookies, which would indicate a screen refresh with new ads. This requires nothing but a single click to achieve – refresh.

Now, on the Safari browser we have her at the AOL sign-in screen. It appears she did either do a log-in at 5:42 or a screen refresh (can’t tell which). So all we have for Casey at this time is a log-in (or screen refersh) on AOL and a refresh on the IE browser.

I believe the following scenario explains this best (as per Maura):

Just prior to Cindy and Amy arriving, Casey knew more than we know she knew via Cindy (i.e. a message I’m coming to get you) or a tip from Amy – so she attempted to start deleting content files and maybe accidentally deleted a system file. This would explain how she could be sitting on the couch on the laptop and not draw attention to her laptop no longer working. She was kerflunkled, but because of what she was doing, she would not have drawn attention to her situation.

So let’s look at Lee’s varying accounts in the same interview. Why did he go into such detail on one scenario (which is apparently untrue when we take into account TL’s statements) and then in the same interview contradict himself (with an account that matches more to TL’s statements). I don’t know. Maybe it’s something in the Anthony genes.

Concerning the question as to whether the laptop would have “powered itself off”:

I got with a contact in Microsoft and discussed this issue. Since we’re at the BIOS screen and Windows has not even loaded, we’re kind of out of their area of expertise, but they stated some BIOS’s may have a powersave mode. So a computer not yet loaded into Windows COULD go into powersaver mode. But they did not answer this definitively.

But here’s the part that confuses me about this. When you get the text screen with the options after you have had an abnormal shutdown, it is a timed screen. In other words, if you do not pick an option, the BIOS defaults to an option for you (can’t remember which selection it defaults to). So the BSOD SHOULD HAVE BEEN UP if the laptop was already running. He should never have seen the text screen unless he walked up to the laptop (whether it was asleep or not) and seen the BSOD already there, then attempting a NEW reboot, then getting the text screen, picking an option and getting the BSOD again. So if the first account (i.e. the laptop appeared to him to be off, but wasn’t) was true, then when he hit the power button he should have seen an immediate BSOD.

But this still doesn’t answer why Lee gave two accounts. Either the computer was on (even if it was asleep) or it was off. Why did he state it was off, go through all the details of powering it up and getting the screen, only to turn around and state it was on (which according to TL’s statements was the true version)?

The difference between the two accounts is walking up to a computer you KNOW is off and walking up to a computer you KNOW is on. There’s no question there if you state both as definitives – which he did. He didn’t qualify “well, I thought it was off”, or “come to find out it was on”. I don’t understand why he entered this confusion into a statement that should have either been one way or the other black and white, OR stated as a qualified statement “I THOUGHT it was off…”, etc.

Val, let’s face it, the whole lot of the Anthony’s are extremely confused people. They can’t help it. It’s in their jeans — oops, genes.

Nonetheless, I had supposed Casey was trying to dump her entire hard drive prior to Cindy’s arrival. But you’re probably right, she was merely trying to delete whatever might be considered incriminating. She was as attached to that laptop as she was to her cellphone, so she wouldn’t have wanted to mess it up too badly.

I have wondered, and now might be a good time to bring this up, considering the fact that she’d pretty much burned all of her bridges, was she thinking she could just chill with Tony, forever, and never be found out, prior to Cindy’s call to let her know there was trouble, and I do believe the car was mentioned, or do you suppose she was setting up the soldier out in California, thinking she might lose herself there, and with him, if she had to? Wasn’t she talking to him (the soldier) (leading him on) at the same time she was seeing Tony? Or was that before Tony?

So my daughter’s not feeling well tonight; which ends this for me, though I would like to note the photographs in the latest doc dump. Is it just me or does the first photograph depict a younger Caylee with a mark on her face, whereas those that follow depict an older Caylee with no mark, though it’s the same place, and Casey appears to be wearing the same sort of shirt. The guitar seems different too. What impresses me about this is that if this is a younger Caylee, then Casey really had a “thing” for this “trouble” shirt.

Blessings.
Willow

Nice layout of understanding V…..this type of post is what reaches the minds’ eye….thxs

I’m just not registering any significant suspicions regarding Lee’s statements about the laptop at Tony’s. Maybe it’s a matter of how narrowly or broadly we define “running” – whether it means “not dead” or “fully powered up.” I am convinced Casey screwed up the laptop on her own and that Lee did not delete any files from the laptop before he got back to the Anthony house at 2:25am.

I see no evidence whatsoever that Casey was tipped off by either Cindy or Amy. Cindy’s last communication with Casey before arriving at Tony’s was the “Call me” text message at 4:45pm. Cindy tried to call Casey at 5:31pm, but she hung up without leaving a message. THat 5:31pm call doesn’t even show up on Casey’s AT&T spreadsheet because Cindy didn’t leave a message; it’s only recorded on the October 2008 text message report as a “missed call.”

Amy’s last communication with Casey before arriving at Tony’s was the camera text message at 5:22pm. There are no calls or text messages from Amy to Casey after that point. It’s not reasonable that Amy would leave a message on Facebook or MySpace if she wanted to let Casey know Cindy was trying to find her – Amy would have called Casey or sent her a text, but she didn’t. Moreover, a MySpace message would have shown up as an alert on Casey’s text message report.

Cindy’s EPass records show she was hitting the airport toll on the 508 heading west to the Florida Mall at 6:18pm. That toll is about five minutes from the Anthony house, and Cindy left the house about 10 minutes after calling Amy the first time (Amy called her back after consulting with JP), so Cindy called Amy around 6:00pm. Cindy would have arrived at the mall around 6:30-6:45pm, and they would have arrived at Tony’s around 7:00-7:15pm.

I believe Casey simply realized a very big shoe had dropped because she knew about the certified letter notice but Cindy had not told her they had found the car and would not tell her in a text message what the “major prob” was. Once Casey knew it had nothing to do with the camera, she must have realized the letter pertained to the Pontiac that had been towed 16 days earlier. IMO, Casey knew she would be facing Cindy sooner than she hoped, so she started cleaning up the laptop.

Maura,

You make a very sound argument. This sounds very logical to me.

But I still have issues with Lee’s inconsistency. (I should note that just to be honest).

I agree, Maura.

From hearing the way Lee speaks, I don’t think he could be clear about whether the laptop was “running” or “on” if he wanted to. His sentence construction is one of the oddest I have ever come across.

A long time ago I transcribed a bit of one of the jail visitation videos — here’s an example of absolutely weird Lee-speech:

Casey and Lee Anthony Interview 2 on July 28, 2008 9 am
http://www.myfoxorlando.com/myfox/MyFox/pages/sidebar_video.jsp?contentId=8005400&version=1&locale=EN-US

Lee & Casey’s words (he never stops talking, her responses just come on top of his words) from a point about 1/2 the way through for about 5 minutes worth… Casey’s words in all capitals.

Well, one thing that I wanted to, ah, for you to keep into consideration, BOTH LAUGH AT SOMETHING one thing I want for you to keep into consideration, based on the contact that, umm, you know, based on what I know right now, what you know, what has been able to be conveyed to me, you have to know that the, that everything has changed from a month ago. YEAH And, that, even if we’ve been used to, or you know, acting a certain way, or following a certain thing, UH HUH that those, in a sense, that those rules may have changed. YEAH What I’d be looking for is, at some point, is some form of direction, with you realizing, that with you knowing that, some form of direction on are we still working off of the same, umm, you know, ah, the same time, the same, you know, the same instances, the same people, UM HUM you know, if, if, the same areas … if any of that you think may change, because, you know, in a sense the situation has changed,YEAH umm, let me know, because of course there’s only certain things that you can handle from where you are YEAH EXACTLY and I want to be able if I can, to, in a sense kind of pick up where you left off, okay? YEAH THAT MAKES PERFECT SENSE So, uh, however, that needs to be facilitated, you know, umm, you know, I know, I know you trust me that I’m going, that I’m gonna to do what’s best for, for everybody, EXACTLY so, you know, just think of that one for me, BOTH LAUGH whatever I can, you know, ’cause that’s kind of what my wheels have been turning on, because you know, that’s the first thing that I realized, you know, that it’s not what we may have been, what you may have been working under, and you know, and all that stuff, the things that you have been stressed about, and the things that you’ve been reacting to, UM HUM maybe someone else needs to stress and react to it YEAH or maybe we need to stress and react to it in a different way, NO, EXACTLY so, ah, you know, do you have anything, that was all of my specific questions, I really didn’t have alot of time today…
***
Just weird.

I will only comment that LE found SOMETHING about Lee’s account of his visit to Tony’s suspicious as well.

How do we know this for a fact?

Wiretap.

Just to add:

IIRC, during LE’s interview of Tony, there was mention of discussing something “off the record”, as well.

It could be that they their suspicions were unable to be confirmed, but suspicions they certainly did have.

It is not their job to explain away–or just accept– discrepancies. They do not have the luxury of taking everyone for their word, particularly where there are inconsistencies in statements. In fact, it is inconsistencies in accounts of events that frequently serve as the basis for cross-examination of witnesses at trial.

You told us A… and then you told us B. Which is the truth? Is either the truth?

This line of work lends itself to the development of a healthy amount of skepticism. The behavior of the entire Anthony family would naturally increase any routine level of concern on behalf of LE and the SAO.

Wow Steffiee – reading that rather than just listening to it brings a whole new perspective. My brain gets twisted up because there is obvious double/triple meaning in several things he’s saying. I’m just not smart enough to figure out what it is!

My first instinct after reading it was that he was talking about the location of Caylee’s body though. Anybody else?

Lily-

Could be, although I think this particular exchange was about the need to change the kidnapping story details, because Sawgrass had already been debunked.

The instances of joint laughter are disturbing, to say the least.

Thanks to Steffiee for transcribing that portion of the conversation, because it does illuminate another reason for healthy skepticism about Lee’s level of cooperation with authorities in their quest to locate Caylee.

I have more information from my Microsoft contact:

Two bits of information may help your friend in his investigation:

A. You can receive the “not shutdown properly” after a Sleep/Standby. But not in Hibernate. This happened to me two days ago:

1. I put the computer to “Sleep”

2. I left the computer unplugged, the batteries were fully depleted.

3. I plugged the computer in and turned it on. I received the “not shutdown properly, do you want the safe boot or normal boot” message.

The reason is that in Sleep (as opposed to Hibernate), the computer is not fully powered off. So when the batteries are depleted the machine loses its state.

B. A laptop can give a blue screen, and without changing a single thing, boot properly a few hours later. My old Dell laptop had a chipset or connector problem, where the laptop would show the “starting windows” message (meaning that at least the bootloader was read from the HD), and then give the bluescreen with an error like cannot access system files on \WINDOWS\system32\config. It happened when the machine was too cold, too hot, or when it needed a whack around the HD slot. Letting it warm up, cool down, or supplying the required whack fixed the problem.

I like that official technical solution “supplying the required whack”.

LMAO

Maybe they were talking from the first story (Sawgrass) to the Jay Blanchard Park story.

The part about doing best for everyone scares me.

I’m not sure Lee’s putting any devious extra meaning into what he says because most of what I’ve heard, even in the LE transcripts, shows that he (and Cindy especially) have some sort of inability to be clear and forthright and unambiguous. I think it’s a defense mechanism that helps them cope — they can stand in this uncertain and cloudy place and not have to make hard choices, they don’t have to accept or speak stark truth; they don’t have to “know.” Words are thoughts. He’s disorganized, unable to make connections or get to the point, droning along in his mind, and confused (because he’s confusing).

I have no doubt that there are discrepancies between what all the Anthony’s have said at different times because it seems they sometimes have a really hard time being straightforward and unambiguous in their speech. The strong feelings they may have about a person or an event or series of events may remain, but the details are a bit slippery. Don’t get me wrong, all of us to a certain degree need to be able to mentally edit what we know, to protect ourselves emotionally and psychologically. It’s just that we’ve seen such drastic (and dramatic) examples of this in the Anthony’s.

I love the weird passivity of Lee’s use of the words “was conveyed to me,” and “offered up to me” and “reached out” and “trying to facilitate other options” or “opened up to me” that he uses often.

Who knows, he may have been trying to talk about the location of Caylee’s body in a Mr. Sneaky Detective sort of way, and truly doing a terrible job of it, with his language even more tangled up than ever.

steffiee, and here I thought I was losing it listening to Lee talk, I thought I was missing something because his sister is answering…nope! He just makes no sense. I notice the same sort of speech pattern when Geo talks too. Lots of words but very little real content. Thank you for that.

Vallhall, that sounds like my method of repairing broken things.

WHACK! it works more often than not too. lol

Silver I see what you’re saying in this part:

——I’d be looking for is, at some point, is some form of direction, with you realizing, that with you knowing that, some form of direction on are we still working off of the same, umm, you know, ah, the same time, the same, you know, the same instances, the same people, UM HUM you know, if, if, the same areas … if any of that you think may change, because, you know, in a sense the situation has changed ——

Its like he like he’s asking her to tune her brain into the clues about the changed scenario coming down from the BIG GIANT HEAD (Cindy). “Are we still working off the same ‘instances’, ‘people’, ‘areas’? “Because, you know, in a sense the situation has changed”

Translation: “Listen up brainiac, mom cannot believe you came up with that Sawgrass BS – that will never fly. She has come up with a better one – and you are going to work with it, got it? That’s why she keeps talking about Jay Blanchard Park, and the ‘list’ and asking about Amy and Jesse. Remember, you’re a tiny little thing – Caylee’s nearly your size and you were overpowered. Run with it and make it good or I’m going to be in big trouble. You get the basics started and ‘I’m going to pick up where you left off because there is only so much you can do from in here’ . . .”

Oh wow

Oh, Silver – that makes lots of sense! Changing the story details post-Sawgrass debunking…yeah.

Val – Love technical “whacking” too – funny.

Didn’t I read some place that Lee, Cindy and George said they never heard the story of Sawgrass until the news come out?

Steffiee, EXCELLENT!!!

Listening to Lee and Cindy makes me feel like I’m watching some amature drama hour. I agree with those who believe Lee was trying to get messages across in code. He even mentions that “People” think we are talking in code. I believe that is how he figured out where Caylee was dumped. Casey kept saying “She is close”, “Look in places that have meaning to the family”. And we have Kio Marie stating that Casey buried her dead pets in that area. Just as a side note, in one of Cindy’s interviews she talks about the dogs they had previously and that they died. Wonder where they are buried?

I know this is speculation, but those statements of Casey’s had me wondering if that was not were Caylee was placed because I kept coming back to why would they be looking in a place that had meaning for the Anthony family IF the babysitter or anyone else had taken her?

Another great article, Valhall.

How would Lee know that everything prior to July 15th was deleted if he couldn’t get the computer to run (blue screen)???

Also….. there is a discrepency in Tony Lazarro’s testimony and Lee’s. Lee said he stayed there for two hours – Tony AND his roommate both stated that Lee took the stuff and left. Hmm…… what was Lee doing in those two hours? Perhaps deleting like a madman?? Too bad for him, computer geeks can find EVERYTHING on a computer even if it’s been deleted.

» Robin in Fla said: { Dec 10, 2009 – 01:12:27 }
Another great article, Valhall.

How would Lee know that everything prior to July 15th was deleted if he couldn’t get the computer to run (blue screen)???
****

What a simple and execllent question! One I hadn’t thought of!

The meeting that was wiretapped was not initiated by OCSO or Tony, but by Lee.

On July 22, Tony signed consent forms for all his telephone and computer activity to be bugged. According to the discovery, Lee Anthony called Tony on July 23 to request a face-to-face meeting, so OCSO knew Lee had called Tony to request the meeting. Arrangements were quickly made to fit Tony out with a wired vehicle, and Tony called Lee back at 5:30pm at the request of Yuri Melich. However, Lee did not answer and Tony had to leave a message in voicemail. Melich stood by until 10:00pm, and then called the operation off. Lee subsequently returned Tony’s call at 10:15pm and Lee and Tony tentatively agreed to meet the following day, July 24.

There is nothing in discovery indicating whether anything took place between Tony and Lee on July 24 (telephone or face-to-face), but I suspect a meeting did not take place because on July 29 at 11:11am, MBI Special Agent Duke informed Yuri Melich that a face-to-face wired meeting between Lee and Tony was tentatively scheduled for 6:00pm and that “the meeting was in response to a request from Lee Anthony to discuss Lazzaro’s relationship with Casey Anthony.”

The July 29 wiretapped meeting took place only hours after Lee was interviewed by Detective Edwards at the OCSD offices. Lee’s recorded OCSO interview started at 12:38pm and ended at 2:03pm although it’s clear there had been a pre-interview before the recorder was turned on. Lee told Tony a few hours later that he had met with a detective for four hours, which is probably correct.

As we know, OCSO took advantage of Lee’s request for a face-to-face meeting with Tony by supplying a wired vehicle for the meeting. At 5:00pm, Tony met with a LEO to set him up with the wired vehicle, and Tony was then instructed to call Lee back at 5:30pm and accept the meeting, specifying a place to meet and describing the vehicle that Tony would be waiting in.

Since the wiretapped meeting had been “in play” since July 23, it was not arranged in response to OCSO suspicions following Lee’s July 29 interview with Detective Edwards. Moreover, MBI SA Duke informed Melich of the scheduled wiretapped meeting prior to Lee’s recorded OCSO statement. And Lee was the one who brought up the fact that laptop was screwed up, not Tony. They talked about the blue screen on the laptop and how they had not been able to fix the problem. Tony said he didn’t know what was wrong because Casey had been using the computer the same day Lee picked it up. Lee said his computer got a virus one time and the same thing happened; he had to take it to Best Buy and pretty much lost all his data. Then Lee changed the topic to the stolen checks and reminded Tony that Lee had told Tony to check his bank account. In other words, Tony was clearly not probing Lee about the laptop.

******

As for Tony’s off-the-record agreement with OCSO, that agreement was mentioned during Tony’s July 22 interview, and I think it’s clear from the context and subsequent interviews that they were discussing “leads” (like the place Casey ran out of gas on June 23 and the car wash where she cleaned his Jeep on July 5) that Tony was going to take the detectives to. OCSO did not want the location where Casey ran out of gas on the tape.

EE: Are you, you had stated before you’re willing to allow us to use some investigative leads that I don’t necessarily want to talk about on tape.
AL: Yes.
EE: Uhm, you’re freely giving us that cooperation?
AL: Yes sir.
EE: And with the hopes of finding the young child, and I greatly appreciate that.
Uhm, we may need to trip around with you a little bit. And uhm, I know you came from the eastside of town today. I’m going to give you forty dollars of . . .
AL: Okay.
EE: . . . of uh, investigative funds we call it. I’m going to have you fill out a form.
AL: Okay.
EE: Uhm, that’s because of your, your need for the fuel that we’re going to probably drive around eventually uhm, and look and see what the address of that, if, even if out of here when you want to go over there and look and get me the address for the car wash.
AL: Oh, yeah (affirmative).

That conversation took place the day before Lee called Tony requesting a face-to-face meeting, so I do not believe the “investigative leads” had anything to do with setting up Lee in a wired car.

Maura-

I didn’t say that the meeting with Detective Edwards was the basis for the wiretap.

Remember-
Not every conversation or interaction with LE is via recorded statement or interview.

They became aware of the fact that Lee retrieved the laptop BEFORE Lee ever met with Detective Edwards, and you can bet that the mere circumstance of Lee going to Tony’s apartment that night, particularly the time he departed the Anthony home, and the length of time he was gone, and then the laptop situation (BSOD/files deleted), prompted some eyebrows to raise IMMEDIATELY about Lee. It appears they merely took advantage of Lee’s request for a meeting with Tony.

Very interesting info about the laptop its “mysterious” problems Val!!

Also interesting to see the high activity on the desktop PC on June 16th … possibly downloading of KC’s files to a flash drive … in order to transfer to the laptop .. I remember Cindy being overly concerned about a flash drive of KC’s …

Lee is as skilled on computers as he is at lying !! … what a buffoon … I remember when I heard his explanation to OSCO about the laptop and BSOD or maybe a virus, thinking please, please, please get that laptop to your computer forensics person ASAP …

Also, what on earth was Lee doing during that 2 hour time period if the laptop had crashed and he couldn’t boot it ?? Lee lied so many times about the laptop, it’s state and what he did to it … did he really think he was fooling OSCO with his computer buzz words and assessment …

I’m sure computer forensics of the laptop hard drive gave an exact picture of the laptop activity prior to Lee picking it up and AFTER Lee got his hands on it …. log files don’t lie …. which is why I’m once again befuddled by a family who thinks of themselves as intellectually superior, yet can’t anticipate that expert analysis is going to prove their statements to be untrue and deliberately misleading …

Let’s face it, if Lee were the computer guru he thinks he is, he would have removed the hard drive, taken a sledge hammer to both the hard drive and laptop and tossed all of it in a dumpster … I’m glad none of the Anthonys are that smart …. JMO

Steffiee said: “I’m not sure Lee’s putting any devious extra meaning into what he says because most of what I’ve heard, even in the LE transcripts, shows that he (and Cindy especially) have some sort of inability to be clear and forthright and unambiguous.”

I heartily agree with this comment. I only have to think about Cindy Anthony’s use of the word “missing” during the 911 calls. She claimed Casey had been missing for a month and that Cindy had just found her, but Casey was not missing in any meaningful definition of that word because Cindy had been in contact with Casey by phone call, voice mails, and text messages every day during that period. But using the word “missing” gave a better impression than saying Casey had abruptly moved out of the house, had been dodging her mother for a month, and had refused to give her true location or allow Cindy to speak to her granddaughter.

denjet said:

Let’s face it, if Lee were the computer guru he thinks he is, he would have removed the hard drive, taken a sledge hammer to both the hard drive and laptop and tossed all of it in a dumpster

denjet – I think this falls into the “supplying the required whack to fix the problem”. That comes in the advanced troubleshooting course.

Think about things from the perspective of a detective.

They learn there is a “family” laptop which Casey was clearly using up until 7/15/08– which they were not told about initially– which was furtively retrieved by Lee alone, late on the night that Caylee was first reported missing (after no one had seen her in over 30 days).

Also-
This is not mutually exclusive with any other/additional concerns they had with Lee, whether that came about from contact/conversations with Lee… and/or with contact/coversations/etc with others… and/or as a result of some investigation work that had taken place.

I personally find his intial, written statement –dated 7/15/08 at 22:16–to be suspicious when one considers the details:

” My sister Casey Anthony has been M.I.A. for weeks, I assumed with her daughter Caylee Marie Anthony. I came to the house this evening to see my mother and found Caseys vehicle in the garage and no sign of anyone. Casey and my mother showed up and both acted as if they been fighting about Caylee. My mother threatened to call the cops and Casey did not fight her about doing so.

Once my mother went outside to clear her head I acknowledged to Casey that mom’s outside and she can’t hear us. Casey began to break down adn told me she doesn’t know where Caylee is and she hadn’t seen her in 31 days since she dropped her off to her nanny zenaida Fernandez-Gonzalez. She claimed she’s been searching for Caylee herself and had other people helping her. She says she’s been staying with Anthony Lazaro. She’s mentioned that the person she met the nanny through is Jeff Hopkins whom lives in Jacksonville. Anthony Lazaro said when I called his cell phone this evening that Casey has been telling him that she sees Caylee on a regular basis.”

According to his own words, he had already spoken with Tony BEFORE he gave this statement to LE (which, btw, is clearly before Cindy contacted Amy that evening to let her know the status,etc., so Lee had Tony’s phone number BEFORE LE got to the house).

Robin in Fla-

Lee said the MySpace comments and posts from April 23 up to and including the comments of July 4 were all deleted on July 4, and Lee would know because he and Cindy had been looking at Casey’s MySpace page on July 3 (the night Lee tried to find Casey in Orlando). He told Detective Edwards in his July 29 OCSO interview that the comments had noticed the deletion of those comments around the time that they had been deleted (July 4). So that claim does not contradict the laptop’s blue screen problems on the night of July 15.

Tony’s roommate Nathan said Lee stayed and had a long conversation with Tony, Nathan, and Lee when he went to the apartment to pick up Casey’s things. Lee did not grab the items and run, and I do not recall anyone saying he did.

This is from Nathan’s September 15 OCSO interview, and it’s obvious Lee hung around the apartment for a while:

NL: No sir I have not. We did have a conver…a long conversation with Lee Anthony when he came over to pick up her belongings. Uhm, which I mean…

YM: Tell us about that.

NL: …Lee spilled a, quite a bit of family nonsense. Uhm, in that conversation he had told us when he came over there he’s, I mean first off he started off like, “Guys I wish I would have met you all beforehand. I would have warned you about my sister.” I mean he is, uh, he flat out said that, “You know I would have warned you about her. She’s a pro at this.” Because, because at this point we were just dealing with stolen money.

JA: Right.

NL: He’s like, “She’s a pro at this.” He goes, “She has become a pro at passing bad checks.” He goes, “Not to scare you all, but you might want to just check your own accounts and make sure she hasn’t taken anything from your accounts, or taken any of your belongings,” which we all promptly did.

YM: Uh-hum (affirmative).

NL: You know, check to make sure we were all okay. He’s like, “She lies.” I mean this is stuff he’s telling us. And we’re telling him, “Oh, yeah (affirmative), well she said she’s going to college.” He’s like, “The girl doesn’t have a high school diploma, you know.” And that’s when we started to get a feel for some of the lies that she had spilling our way, uhm, you know, about the fact that she probably didn’t have a job. Even though Lee did not say that specifically. He said, “I don’t,” he, he did say, “I don’t know if she has a job or not at this point.” He goes, “I do know that she has put my, my mother into debt uhm, seriously.” Uh, there was some talks about Lee possibly buying a house uhm, for his mother because you know, because of the debt that Casey had put them in. And that she had become a real pro at passing bad checks. You know, pretty much like a, and she’s a con artist is what the, the feeling that we got. And the relationship uhm, the understanding of the family relationship with Lee and his parents that I got out of that was Lee, I mean Cindy had told Lee that she had not been able to, this is coming out Lee’s mouth. Cindy had told him a couple weeks prior that she hadn’t seen Casey or Caylee. Didn’t know where they were, la-da-da. At that point Lee told us he saw on-line you know, the pictures, the same pictures we’ve all seen and said, “Oh, she, she was in Orlando. You know, I mean she’s got detailed pictures of every place she’s hanging out.” Uhm, and it wasn’t until the time when Cindy and Amy came to pick up that Lee got, that Cindy called Lee again and Lee got back involved in the situation. But what I gathered from Lee is him and his sister and him and his mother’s relationship are not solid relationships.

YM: So him and Casey’s relationship is not?

NL: It’s not a good rel…it’s, from what I understand, from what, the way he was speaking about his sister that evening it isn’t, it, it didn’t seem like it was a good relationship. It seems like Lee has his job, his place to live, and he’s kind of distanced himself from you know, from whatever nonsense was going on. And because Casey had told us that primarily one of the reasons that she wanted Caylee to stay with the nanny was that there was problems at home between her parents, uhm, you know, the arguing, la-da-da-da. She didn’t want Caylee to see, to be subjected to that type of environment. However, she did not want Caylee at our apartment either. I mean for obvious reasons. So she did not want to impose her and the child staying with the nanny. Apparently the nanny didn’t have room for her to stay there also. So the child would stay there in the evening. She would stay at our place in the evening. And what I gathered from Lee, I mean it’s just, there wasn’t a solid relationship there (inaudible).

YM: Did she ever say, and there was a, there came a point when she started sleeping over there every night?

NL: Yes sir.

YM: Did she ever say what caused that?

NL: Just uh, she didn’t want to be at home with the arguing going on.

YM: Any specific argument that might have happened specifically?

NL: Not any specific thing. And when we asked Lee about that Lee had said if anything, home life has been better in the past few months because her father had just gotten a job a couple months ago. And he said, “If anything, uhm, home life has been better in the last couple of months,” when Casey said it was terrible, then it had been in I uhm, distinctly remember Lee saying in the past six to seven months. It was actually better at that time then it had been in the past six to seven months.

I see your point, Silver, but Tony said the laptop had a blue screen when the deputy came to get the phone at 11:00pm (an hour before Lee went to Tony’s). Tony said he and the deputy tried to get the laptop sorted out but couldn’t, so they left it for Lee. OCSO knew the laptop was screwed up before Lee Anthony ever left the Anthony house for Tony’s.

EE: Are you, you had stated before you’re willing to allow us to use some investigative leads that I don’t necessarily want to talk about on tape.
AL: Yes.
EE: Uhm, you’re freely giving us that cooperation?
AL: Yes sir.

When did AL state that he was allowing them to use some investigative leads? “before”. We don’t know precisely when that was. It may be the same date of the recorded interview, but one cannot assume it for certain.

While it is fascinating to read so much of the discovery in this case, I am afraid that folks tend to view it as the beginning and end of the picture.
The items that the State is required to turn over via the discovery statutes do not necessarily comprise ALL of the investigative work performed by LE.

Maura-
Agreed.

Tony said he and the deputy could not get it to boot up, but the fact that this did not stop Lee from specifically going over there to retrieve it THAT EVENING…
must have been of some concern to LE.

If they had wired Jesse or someone else… one might be less inclined to believe that there were suspicions about Lee and the laptop, vs. Lee in general. (Although I will note that they clearly had other suspicions about Lee, one of which had to do with Caylee’s paternity, which they learned was an unfounded suspicion.)

*****
BTW-
Your analysis of the timing and content of text messages between Cindy and Casey, and then Casey and Amy on the afternoon/early evening of July 15th was brilliant.

LMAO Val!
Thanks I needed a chuckle today!

What a great site,no fight ,no calling names ,and NO nastiness. I think Casey accessed the laptop from Cindy’s desktop that night and Lee turned on that computer to see if she did it right.

Maura — I didn’t mean to say that Lee just grabbed the stuff and ran off. I know he stayed and chatted with Tony and his roommate – but it certainly wasn’t the two hour “interrogation” that Lee claims it was. I also understand what you are saying about Lee and Spindy stalking KC’s MySpace, Yahoo, etc… hence knowing the dates of deletion BUT this was done on the desktop located at the A’s. Lee states “THATS IN THERE NOW…” regarding the laptop……how would he know that if the laptop had a blue screen and he never was able to get it to work???

See what I mean —–>

EE: So June 15th to July 15th exists? But from July 15th, so did that kind of lead you to believe that…
LA: No, no, I’m saying the information that’s in there now is July 15th, 16th, 17th, 18th; everything to present. Anything pre-dating…
EE: Prior?
LA: Uh, yeah (affirmative). I’m sorry. So everything predating July 15th, nothing is in there. There’s no saved e-mails. There’s no spam. There’s no inbox messages. There’s no sent mail. There’s nothing, everything predating July 15th.
EE: Nothing prior?
LA: Nothing.
EE: Well that would make sense that if you went and got the computer on July 15th, and it appeared to you that maybe it crashed because of a deleting issue, that maybe everything was deleted.

Steffiee, Did your ears bleed while transcribing that rif between Casey and Lee? Aside from the fact that all the Anthonys are inveterate liars, they also all need to enroll in ESL classes.

I sometimes try to listen, again, to certain Anthony interviews and find myself scratching and jerking involuntarily as if insects had invaded my clothes and were eating me alive. Very soon, for the sake of my health, I cease and desist trying to understand anything they say. Probably explains why I need blogs like Val’s and posts like yours to help me learn what’s going on in the case.

I do think, since the Anthonys knew they were being taped at the jail and that their conversations would go out to LE and then to the public, their distinct Anthony patois helped them with their Little Theater presentation of “Where’s Caylee?”. Their scenes with Casey all have a different tone with each participant acting up a storm.

Lee is the code king. Everything is unintelligible to the listening audience, but Casey usually can be counted on to fill in any blanks in Lee’s dialogue. (In spite of the siblings’ years of practice with cipher-speak to confuse the parents, Casey can get very …er…”frushtrated” when she can’t make Lee pick up on her own code concerning, among other things, Caylee’s location.)

Cindy feeds Casey just the right cues to get the answers she wants the world to hear. (Sometimes Casey is a little irritable and slow on the uptake. She’s the one used to directing most of the Anthony Players in their greatest roles.) When Casey falters in the script which Cindy wants out there, the missus drives harder and answers her own questions while Casey fumes, “I’ve already given that info to Lee… (in code!)” Recall Cindy probably spurrred the whole Zenaida fiction on July 15th when she asked Casey the dramatic question (according to Lee, anyway) “Who took her?” What a marvelous cue to set the play in motion!

George’s direction comes mostly in the form of giving the principlel actress good reviews about her character and her importance in the play. (The backdrop to his coaching is how wonderfully close, loving and supportive the Anthony family has always been and how Casey is, indeed, the beating heart of the family and a father’s greatest pride.)

I know I’m off subject of the laptop, and Lee’s part in the BSOD, etc, but I just try to recall that the Anthony’s are performers all, in most situations in this case, which includes Lee and the laptop. Maybe I’m not that far off topic. This family will do anything to save their miserable daughter/sister for their own individual reasons. To be fair (or gullible), perhaps they all truly believe Caylee’s death was an accident and Casey is really innocent of any real wrongdoing.

But I doubt it.

Oh MsEnscene – what a true pleasure to read your prose.

I have thought many times about Cindy’s switch from “what have you done” (and Casey replies she hasn’t seen Caylee in 31 days, she doesn’t know where she is) to “who took her?!?” Not the right question, Cindy. A leading question (rather than open-ended), in fact.

How about just “what does that mean” or “what do you mean.”

***
Did anyone just flat out ask Lee why he/they wanted the laptop anyway? Any email or myspace/facebook communication could be easily accessed from the home desktop. Wouldn’t you be putting your energies into something else rather than gaining access to the laptop — unless you had suspicions of Casey and wanted to snoop or unless you knew there was something incriminating that needed removal in order to protect Casey. Why else, unless you just had nervous energy to do something, anything, would you go over there to get the laptop. Or maybe it was an excuse to get in there and talk to Tony… I could accept that reasoning, I guess, but as far as I know Lee hasn’t said that that was his reason for going after the laptop. So, why did they want it???
a) suspicious snooping
b) protective/obstructive tampering
c) get in there and talk to Tony
…and has he actually said anything about his reasons for going after it?

I just put it out there that rather than file deletions, Lee had 2 other valid reasons for retrieving the laptop that night.

Of course, that doesn’t answer what happened to the laptop after 5:48, lol.

Robin,

No, I don’t see what you mean. Lee’s “that’s in there now” comment was made in reference to Casey’s Yahoo account (which could be accessed from any computer), not in reference to the laptop’s archives.

IIRC, Lee said he was gone for over two hours, not that he had a two-hour conversation with Tony and his roommates. Lee left after midnight, but we don’t know exactly what time he left. If he left at 12:05am and returned at 2:25am, then he was at Tony’s for about 1 hour and 40 minutes (deducting the 40-minute round-trip driving time). It may have been less time than that if he left after 12:05am, plus he didn’t know where the apartment was, so it could have taken him an extra five minutes driving around the complex to locate the correct apartment and find a place to park. From Nathan’s testimony, Lee was there for a LONG conversation, and from the wiretapped conversation, Lee and Tony tried to get the laptop sorted out while Lee was there. I can easily see the visit lasting 1 & 1/2 hours given that Tony and his roommates had questions and given that Lee was trying to find out what he could about Casey’s behavior and actions over the prior month.

Even if we cut Lee’s visit down to one hour, we would have to believe he left Tony’s, found somewhere to park, fixed the laptop, deleted files, then wrecked the laptop again before returning to the Anthony residence. Moreover, he needed Casey’s passwords to get into her MySpace, Facebook, Yahoo, and Photobucket accounts, and with those passwords, he could have deleted content from any computer (including his own PC) – he didn’t need to get the laptop running to delete files in those locations. And if Lee’s purpose was to delete incriminating content, he failed to delete Casey’s Diary of Days post and Cindy’s My Caylee is Missing post. and he failed to blitz Casey’s photobucket accounts.

Below is the July 15-16 timeline for the HP desktop. JWG at Websleuthes provided most of the information, and I added to it. You’ll see that at 2:32am, a successful login was made on the HP to check a Yahoo account. You will also see that Casey’s MySpace, Facebook, and Photobucket accounts were being viewed on the HP before Lee ever left for Tony’s.

*****

HP Activity Temporary Files Timeline July 15-16
JWG at Websleuths
Computer Forensics Thread
March 5, 2009 Comment (Information added by me, Maura)

Lee left the Anthony house some time after midnight, went to Tony’s apartment to collect Casey’s things, had a long conversation with Nathan and Tony per Nathan’s testimony, and returned to his parents around 2:25am.

Lee stated in his July 29 OCSO interview that as he was investigating the situation, he noticed that in KC’s Yahoo email account all emails prior to July 15 had been deleted (page 1479). He said a large block of MySpace comments had been deleted from April 24-July 3. On page 55 lines 6-7 of the OCSO interview, Lee told Eric Edwards, “So I was never able to actually log onto that computer [laptop] or log onto the desktop.”

JWG noticed the HP internet temporary file history before June 27 had been deleted as was the history from July 2-9.

July 15 into July 16 HP Temporary Files and other events:

Cindy made the first 911 call at 8:08pm to OPD when she and Casey were at the closed OPD neighborhood substation. Cindy was told to go home first with Casey and then call OCSO for a deputy.

When Cindy arrived at the Anthony house with Casey, Lee was there, having been called by George and asked to go home. Lee talked to Casey per his statement and tried to get her to say exactly where Caylee was.

Cindy lost patience and made the second 911 call of the night and first 911 call to OCSO at 8:44pm.

There was no HP desktop activity on July 15 until 8:47 PM, when about 40 seconds of AIM activity occurred. JWG’s belief is this is when the computer was powered on, and AIM automatically launched. Nothing happened for 1 1/2 hours until around 10:15pm. Either Lee or Casey would likely have powered on the HP since Cindy was talking to OCSO at 8:47pm (unless Cindy was on her cell phone and multitasking). But Lee said he had gone into the living room, so Casey may have booted up the desktop since her room is next to the guest room where the HP is set up.

***Weeks later, Cindy told Matthew Irwin that Yuri Melich had been provided with a zip drive containing Caylee’s pictures because the Anthony computer printer was out of ink.

Cindy made her third (frantic) 911 call at 9:41pm. George came home around 9:43pm (he’s on the 911 tape), and responding deputies arrived at the end of the 4 minute, 29 second call (so around 9:46pm). Deputies Ryan Eberlin and Adriana Acevedo were apparently the first responders (their signatures are at the bottom of the written statements provided by George, Cindy, Lee, and Casey).

Lee testified that the deputies separated Cindy and George from Lee and Casey. He said he and Casey waited in the garage while Cindy and George were being interviewed inside the house. Lee said he and Casey could hear everything being said.

10:11pm – Time stamp on OCSO statement for Cindy (Adriana Acevedo signed it).

10:16pm – Time stamp on OCSO statements for George (Adriana Acevedo signed it).

10:16pm – Time stamp on OCSO statements for Lee (Ryan Eberlin signed it).

At 10:15pm, activity on the HP resumed. Per JWG, for the next five minutes it appears there were repeated attempts to log into KC’s ATT wireless account, culminating in a visit to the “lost password” page to presumably have a new password sent to her email account. A successful login to Yahoo may have occurred at this time. Given that Casey had told 911 she received a call from Caylee around noon but did not have her phone with her, she may have been at the computer with a deputy and conveniently “forgot” her password, so the records could not be retrieved for OCSO. (Source: JWG)

10:30pm – HP activity resumed after a 10-minute lull. An attempt is made to either register with or log into an existing “Lava Life” account. This lasted for about a minute (JWG thinks Lee was looking at the internet history). Attempts were then made to log into Facebook (unsuccessfully). (Source: JWG)

10:43pm – a successful attempt to log into Casey’s MySpace is made (MySpace Page ID #10472558). For the next 10 minutes comments and inbox messages are viewed. (Source: JWG)

10:57pm – a successful attempt to log into Facebook is made, although the account is not clear from the file path. Numerous photos are viewed for the next 3 minutes. Activity stops. (Source: JWG)

11:00pm – an OCSO deputy left for Tony Lazzaro’s to get her cell phone. Tony said it was a male deputy, and Deputy Ryan Eberlin’s report indicates that Deputy Ryan Williams was sent to Tony Lazzaro’s apartment to search the residence and get Casey’s cell phone.

11:15pm – a return to Facebook with what appears to be a single upload. (Source: JWG)

11:19pm – a second attempt to login to the ATT wireless account. (Source: JWG)

11:23-11:35pm – a rapid-fire mixture of MySpace and Photobucket views. On Photobucket, it is images. On MySpace, it is images and messages. (Source: JWG)

11:35-11:50pm – many, many views of Facebook photos after what appears to be a successful login. (Source: JWG)

11:55pm – OCSO deputy Ryan Williams returned from Tony’s with Casey’s phone and began calling through Casey’s contact list. (Source: JWG)

July 16, some time after midnight, Lee left for Tony’s to collect the rest of Casey’s things.

12:45am – Yuri Melich was called by Sgt. Reggie Hosey and notified of a missing child case. I don’t know if Hosey was at the Anthony house or had been called by a deputy at the residence.

1:05am – Time stamp on Casey’s OCSO statement (Ryan Eberlin signed it).

1:40am – HP computer appears to reboot (this is JWG’s wording, and it’s unclear to me whether the HP had been shut down earlier or if the HP powered down automatically due to lack of activity or what). If the reboot was manual, it could NOT have been Lee. (Source: JWG)

2:25am – Lee returned to the Anthony home and dumped Casey’s belongings on the living room floor. He and Cindy went through Casey’s things while a deputy walked in and out of the room. Lee said it was a female deputy, so unless additional LEOs had responded, it was Adriana Acevedo.

2:32am – successful login to Yahoo mail. Activity stops at 2:34 (possibly after seeing no email exists). This could have been Lee because we know he checked her Yahoo account, but if he was going through Casey’s things, it was someone else. Perhaps he checked the Yahoo account before dumping Casey’s things out.

3:30am, Yuri Melich arrives per his July 22 bond hearing testimony.

4:11am – Time stamp at the start of Casey’s recorded interviewed by Yuri Melich at the Anthony house (they had a conversation prior to the recorded interview). The interview lasts about 20 minutes.

4:45-6:15am – Casey and Detective Melich went on a tour of ZG’s last three residences in Orlando. This was Casey’s second tour since midnight according to the reports, but there is no information in the reports released to day regarding what time the first tour took place. Melich noted in a search warrant that they drove to Sawgrass and Casey took Melich to the same stairwell she had pointed out to deputies earlier that night.

At 5:09am – the HP computer is powered up, but no real activity until 5:18 when the MSN website is brought up. One of the very first things done here is to go to the white pages search off this site and enter “aida” as a first name and “Fernandez-Gonzalez” as the last name. Someone searches referral sites USsearch.com and Reunion.com for ZFG. (Source: JWG)

Activity is very sparse from about 5:25am to 1:40pm. (Source: JWG)

6:30-11:30am – There is nothing in the discovery to indicate whether any LEOs were still at the Anthony house, but my gut says they had all left the house by the time Casey was dropped off at 6:30am. No charges had been filed, her cell phone had been returned to her, she was with her parents (who had called 911), and the detectives were investigating her story.

6:48am – Casey sent a text to Tony saying she has just returned home from the drive-around. They exchange text messages until around 7:30, then she calls and talks to him until 8:03am.

8:00-11:30am – Cindy testified that she and Casey worked in the morning on sending text messages to Casey’s friends. In her 11pm jail call to the Anthony home later that night, Casey told Kristina Chester that she had created the Help Find Caylee/Caylee is Missing MySpace page earlier in the day. This would have been the site that had been Casey’s Kayseeomaree MySpace. Casey sent text messages to friends around 10am telling them Caylee had been missing for 32 days and to contact her with information.

11:30am – Casey received a call from OCSO (Yuri) asking her if she would agree to meet the detectives at Universal to show them her office; she called back immediately, spoke for 5.5 minutes to Detective Melich on speakerphone. Yuri Melich was at Universal Studios with Universal Investigator Leonard Turtora. Turtora had checked the databases and determined that Casey Anthony had not worked at Universal Studios since 2006. On speakerphone, Casey confirmed that she had a job at Universal as an event planner and gave Melich the name of a boss who did not work there according to Turtora and an office extension number that did not exist according to Turtora. Casey was unable to provide the building number or location of her office. When Detective Melich asked if she had her current work identification card, she said she didn’t know where it was. She agreed to meet detectives at Universal to show them her office.

11:52am – George’s Epass records showed he was on the road (Beline then airport then Goldenrod, the same tolls he had taken to go to his shift at the Premier Theater the night before). Did he go to work?

12:30pm – Casey was picked up at the Anthony house by John Allen and Appie Wells and taken to Universal. She would not return to the Anthony house until August 21. It is likely that only Cindy and Lee were in the Anthony house after Casey was picked up.

From 1:40pm to 2:00pm or so there are multiple HP searches on multiple sites for combinations of “Cheryl Davis,” “East Coast Universal,” and “Battle of the Bands” – all of which were names and phrases from Casey’s “work” emails that she had given to Cindy. (Source: JWG)

After a brief pause of 20 minutes or so, work began on the Caylee is Missing MySpace page. (Source: JWG)

2:43pm and 2:51pm – searches are conducted for missing children’s websites. JWG believes the searches were conducted by Lee (looking for information/layout ideas) as he worked on the Caylee is Missing/Help Find Caylee website.

Wow, Maura – so wonderfully comprehensive. Val – I LOVE this site! Thank you.

Val – do you feel your rainfall article conclusions were vindicated by the prosecution’s expert’s report? Did you find differences at any point? Do you take issue with the report on any points? His methods and data used was very interesting to read, at least to me.

So, have we concluded anything regarding the BSOD? Is Lee “cleared” or no? It looks to me like we’re leaning toward Casey screwing around and deleting something she shouldn’t have… eh?

whatever the conclusion, I think what KC needs the most at the moment is , like Miss lyon said, having someone coming over and saying:
“Honey, I love you! we’re so proud of what you’ve done!”

don’t you ppl have feelings?

Steffiee,

Yep, I commented on this on this in the comments here http://www.thehinkymeter.com/?p=800. I do have issues with the report, but it is more questions about the methodology of the report. A complete set of topography data was not released with the report. Further to that, there is what appears to be a discrepancy between elevations on the topography map shown in the report and that of the original topography map in the autopsy. It is confusing how there could be differences when the waterlevel analysis states it is using the same topography map from the autopsy.

Dave is going back out to the site probably next week to take some more photographs and footage of the area. He hopes to be able to discern if there is a drainage gully that directly connects the site where Caylee was found to the Little Econ River. That will help answer a lot of questions.

Thanks, Val – I look forward to hearing more!

Re: Lee spending some time at TL’s apartment with the guys giving them some of Casey’s background along with warnings to check their bank accounts. He lays it all out there about Casey. He’s such a right guy. No. He’s devious.

He is on the square with the guys about some of Casey’s past exploits for one reason: to insinuate himself into their good graces and lull them into a relaxed complacency where they talk freely. He must learn as much as he can about what Casey has told them — about the family or Caylee and what the princess has been up to outside the family’s domain. He’s well used to the role of scout tracking Casey and keeping her misadventures under wraps.Lee manipulates people on these information expeditions so he can run some kind of Anthony interference in whatever is out there about CMA!

IMO, with Lee, it was never about finding a live Caylee as it was about protecting his sister from an inevitable fallout from her constant irrational activities. Lee and the other Anthonys did not want any surprises popping up from people thay hadn’t properly vetted; they knew from the 15th, with the smell in the car, that Casey was involved in some kind of a crime, very probably involving a missing Caylee. At the very least they knew her abandoned car was used in a criminal activity.

Lee tells Annie Downing not to lie for Casey, to just tell the truth. What an honest guy! But he is learning as much as he can from her under the guise of laying his cards on the table. He also vets the Grunds in the same manner and both Grunds think Lee is a regular guy caught in a bad family. Probably all of Casey’s friends are given the “Let me be honest with you about my sister” treatment — like the one Lee gives to Tony Lazzaro in the car. The Grunds and friends are not wired, but LE must have a pretty good idea of Lee’s modus operandi, including any tinkering with the computers. ” Lee knows what he has done.”

That is for sure.

I SAW A VIDEO ON YOU TUBE BY A WOMAN WHO CALLS HERSELF ALBATROSS, THAT LEE DID CRASH THE LAP TOP AND THAT LE HAD TO RETREIVE THE HARD DRIVE I ORDER TO OBTAIN INFORMATION THAT LEE DELETED ON PURPOSE. THIS WHOLE ANTHONY CLAN SHOULD BE IN A JAIL CELL SOME WHERE. CINDY IS NOW SEEING THAT WHAT HER BROTHER TOLD HER IS COMING HOME TO ROOST. JUSTICE FOR CAYLEE!

ArgentineRose –

Here is the January 30 YouTube video created by Albatross234, and while she suggests Lee may have deleted files from the laptop, she does not claim to know that he did.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYPhMhFrHPs

I listened to about a third of it, and she does not strike me as being a person who has any notable insight into the case.

Looking at George’s “Summer ‘08″ interview with LE:
http://www.wftv.com/pdf/20224461/detail.html

On page 9 George says:

“…I know my daughter deleted alot of stuff off of the computer.”

(Since I was into it now, here are some brief notes, if anyone is interested…
On Page 10 or 11, he talks about how Casey is not the girl they used to know. On Page 19 he talks about how Caylee would run to them, to Cindy, instead of Casey. Page 21-22 he talks about how Lee’s relationship with Casey changed when she lied to him about being pregnant. Page 28 he talks about the internet scam he participated in where he lost money. Page 31 he flat out says Casey was taking money from Cindy’s account by taking it online and using her credit cards and taking from Cindy’s purse. Page 32 he says Casey would “steal” from Cindy – the detectives question him directly on this point. Page 33 he says Casey was taking the money from the fund he had started for Caylee and Casey and that he quit doing a direct deposit to that account because it was always gone when he checked it. Page 34 he says on a LE questionnaire he checked “irresponsible” for Casey. Page 35 he says he suspected Casey wasn’t working and talked to both Cindy and Casey about it. He says Casey nickel-and-dimed him constantly for small sums for gas, diapers, etc. Page 35-36 is where he says he saw Casey’s resume and that after 2006 she wrote that she was a “nanny” and how he confronted her on that. [He sounds so incredibly gullible here, saying he just couldn't understand why she would put that down when she was only "thinking" about doing it, being a nanny -- George, she put that down because she was LYING, sheesh.] Page 36 LE tells George that when Cindy filled out the questionnaire she put down ratings of “extremely high” for responsibility and dependability and George’s response is “wow.” Page 37 he begins talking about discovering and reporting the stolen gas cans on June 24th. On page 39 he mentions how the lock was placed inside the shed, to the side and how he thought that people who would break into the shed would just drop the lock, toss the lock, not put it inside the shed (he makes no conclusions just notes what he was thinking about the placement of the lock from the broken-into shed). Page 41 he says why didn’t they take some of the stuff in the shed if they were already there stealing the gas and the gas cans. On page 42 he talks about how when Casey came to the house that same day, he was “trying to be this old detective guy again. I said hey look, in the trunk of your car is…” meaning he was deliberately trying to get into the trunk to see if she was the one who had taken the gas cans and her giving him the “f-ing cans.” Okay, I didn’t realize the big fantasy story about driving back and forth to Tampa and Zanny’s car accident was her bizarro excuse for stealing the gas cans, on Page 43. Page 47 begins this brief account of the last time he says he saw Caylee. Wow, the 24th was a busy day of lying for Casey, because the next few pages are about how on that day Cindy talked to Casey via phone/text, drove to Universal to try and see her and Casey gave her more of her Tampa-Zanny-fantasy. Page 51 he recounts following Casey through traffic in her mother, Cindy’s, car days after the gas can incident. He says she asked Cindy if she could borrow her car — I wonder what Cindy said to LE about this? He says she blew through tolls without paying – gets very detailed about not being able to mistake the car because of the panda in the window, etc. [Does he say later on sometime that this story isn't true? I seem to remember something like that...] Pages 53-54 he talks about various times earlier that year Casey getting tickets for not paying tolls. Page 56 he talks about how when he spent $130 on her tires, she got money from her mom and paid him back half, that it was “really wild” and that she was “flipping things around.” Ahhh, Page 57 he says he and Cindy both “started finding little things” like Casey constantly paying her AT&T bill through Cindy’s account, their account always being short, Cindy finding checks written saying she didn’t write that, she doesn’t write many checks anymore… George says Casey “hacked” into Cindy’s account. Page 58 he says he never heard Caylee mention Zanny. Page 60 “no brightness…no recognition” of Caylee to Zanny’s name. Page 61 repeats no recognition by Caylee of names such as Zack, Zanny, etc. The next pages recount finding the certified letter notification on the door and retrieving the car from the tow yard. Page 68 he talked about the odor and “you never, ever forget it.” Page 69 he says he saw in the car at the tow yard his daughter’s regular purse with driver’s license in it… Page 73 he says again that it’s a distinct odor that you never forget and that he didn’t want to think it was his granddaughter in the trunk. Wow, he goes into detail about seeing the stain in the trunk and that it was not in the same place the trash bag was. Page 75 he says that there is a distinguishable difference between garbage smell and decomposition smell. On Page 76 LE says they have sent the stain out, LE expects DNA to come back, that stains like that just don’t appear out of nowhere and George is saying he knows that. [So on this day, at this time, it appears that part of George believes there was someone dead in the trunk of Casey's car, IMO.] Page 77 he says he needs to believe Caylee is still alive, for his sanity and his wife and son’s sanity. Page 78 he talks about he and Cindy discussing finding the pool ladder out and that maybe the scenario is that Caylee drowned. Page 79 George says Casey borrowed the shovel from the neighbor after the 24th because from that point on he got a new and different lock and fixed it so it was much harder for anyone to get into his shed. Page 82 he speculates something happened at Tony’s house. Or that maybe Casey stole a large amount of money or jewelry from someone and that’s why Caylee’s missing. He also wonders could Jesse be the nanny that held Casey down at the park and took Caylee? Page 85 he explains away the cadaver dog hits in the yard. Page 90 he wonders about Jesse again. Page 92 George says Jesse called him when Casey was on route to hospital for a seizure. Page 95 he talks about Casey’s friend Ryan and Casey owing Ryan money. Page 102-103 George says Casey is going to be “behind bars” that he knows she is going to be going away, that he knows this deep in his heart, for some of the stuff she’s done. Okay, on Page 103 he reallly goes into detail about wanting to talk to Casey about her life as she knew it having changed, about prison being in her future, about how he doesn’t want her to go to a state prison because inmates don’t like it when a child is involved… Page 104 more from George about possible scenarios. Page 104-105 is George’s speculation on what password “timer 55″ might mean. Page 110 he starts telling this strange story about some woman who was giving him strange information. The rest of the interview is general stuff about having to wait to see Casey when she was arrested, about why no Amber Alert, about how the system works in regards to the investigation.

[WFTV files this as George's "summer '08 interview" even though the transcript is signed by Yuri in June '09.]

4:40p Last access for Casey’s Diary of Days file on the Compac laptop

Val, I can’t help but wonder if there is more writing in this Diary of Days file then just the poem. I am thinking it might be an acutal diary with perhaps a confession??? I can only hope. I wonder how many times she accessed this file during those 31 days. Do we have the info on the laptop history during the 31 days she was hiding?

They have only released limited evidence from the computer forensics on both computers. I do believe that Encase can tell each time a file was accessed. (I have someone I can consult with on this who will definitively know that answer and I’ll get back with you.) The information we have right now only tells us when she first created it (July 2nd) and when she last accessed it (July 15th).

I’ll get back with you on whether Encase can tell each time a particular file is accessed (pretty sure it can).

Well, since I was on a roll with George’s “summer ‘08 interview” I went ahead and made just a few notes from the Morgan ZFG depo and I am posting it here just to be done with it –

Well, I’m reading George’s 04/09/09 Morgan depo transcript and the first glaring inconsistency from the Summer ‘08 interview is page 5894 where George says he has no knowledge of Casey being short of funds in the year leading up to Caylee’s death and that he also never discussed Casey’s need for money with Casey. Next page he says he has no knowledge of Casey taking any money. Then he says he has no knowledge whatsoever of her using credit cards that didn’t belong to her. He says that he never looked for Zanny himself, that he relied on LE and private investigators. He says the only information he gave to help find Zanny was her name. He says that right now, that day, is the first time he is hearing about the change in stories from Sawgrass to Blanchard Park. On page 5935 he says he has no idea, no suspicions of who “Zanny” could be. Page 5939 he says he can’t remember the details of Casey’s story about the Zanny-Tampa-fantasy and he says he did not ask her what was going on as to why she and Caylee hadn’t been coming home. Page 5950 he says there was no dispute over their (grandparent’s) affection for Caylee. Then he backtracks when they read him previous statements about Casey throwing it up in Cindy’s face about Cindy holding Caylee first, after she was born. Okay, now he says he was wrong about following Casey while she was driving her mom’s car – that he was mistaken as to the date, the month and that it was earlier in the year. Later on he says he never asked Dominic Casey about his efforts in searching for Zanny.

He’s something, isn’t he?

Great comparison, Steffiee. If we went back and put every single thing GA and CA had said in every media interview, LE interview, and deposition (both civil and criminal) into one document it would read like a segment out of Green Acres with county Agent Hank Kimball

Hank: “A hound dog, eh? I used to have a hound dog…Well, not a hound dog. Maybe it was a bird dog. No…dogs don’t generally fly. No, that’s it! It was definitely a canary.”
Oliver: “You just said it was a dog!”
Hank: “What was?”
Oliver: “Your canary!”
Hank (looking around): “Where?!”

Hahaha… good and apt!

To Jo:

Here is what my source told me about Encase and the ability to see every time a file is accessed:

Simply put, yes I can tell every time that file was opened, modified etc

So they will know every time “diary of days” was looked at, messed with, etc. from July 2nd through July 15th.

Thanks Valhall! There has got to be more to that file than just that poem. To quote the Black Eyed Peas “I got a feeling”…!

Encase will not tell them access times if the drive was copied, erased, rewritten all ones, repartioned, reformatted, and had the original stuff copied back on.

This is the software equivalent of taking a hammer to the drive. Actually, it is more effective than the hammer because there have been cases where drive platters where rebuilt after being smashed and the data was retrieved.

William,

Do you think some one actually did that? i.e. took everything off and then put it all back on?

Also, I’m unsure your statement is correct (in its entirety), but I’m passing it by some one to check.

Nope. and Nope.

I was just being cute.

The software equiv of a hammer would be to erase the drive with a powerful electromagnet and then low level format the drive once more. There would be no recovering any data after that.

The sneaky thing would be to remove what ever you do not want found, clone the drive, magneticly erase it, restore low level format, repartion it, reformat it high level, copy the clone back in place. The only other thing that you have to do, depending on the OS is read each file from the clone and write it fresh to the old drive instead of copying it if you want to reset all access times (after first reseting the system clock to the date that you want it to appear that the computer was last used on).

oh, yeah, you have to make sure that you reset the system clock back to the real time when you are done if you do not want it obvious that this was done.

To be really, really sneaky – you would use several different dates and times for various files as you put them back on the drive. Or after you put them back you could reset the clock several times and access various files. You could do it in a program if you use touch to do the access time changes – there is a version of touch for just about every OS out there (although you might have to compile it special for a select few OSes).

At any rate, had it been me trying to manufacture a faked up drive,,, you would never know for sure.

It would also have bene real easy to get rid of all of the online seach stuff that was found if Casey had a real clue about computers. All she would have had to do was to use a program like norton secure erase on the internet cache on the computer. It would have opened each file in the cache and written the contents to all ones. Then erased it. that would have removed all of the unallocated flotsum laying about on the drive which could be used to find the searches even if the file is erased (but not if it is first replaced with a file of the exact same size which contains all ones and then erased).

Anyone who had a clue about computer forensics could have made the trail a much tougher one to follow than Casey did.

Thanks Valhall……so much good stuff to read……i enjoyed it all

This is a comment on JWG’s post that you linked:

I believe that Joypath has previously disputed or disagreed with the theory that duct tape was applied at the point of fluid seepage. And I would tend to agree. It is much more difficult to get adhesives to stick to a wet/oozing surface. I believe that the duct tape was either 1) Used as a method to silence Caylee with fatal and unintentional consequences, 2) Was used to intentionally cause death, or 3) Was placed on very early post-mortem to stage a kidnapping. Of course, it is only my opinion and no better or worse than anyone else’s opinion. As time has moved forward, I have stepped away from the accidental scenario. I believe that Casey Anthony and/or the family would have developed a 3rd story where the duct tape would have been explained, in the context of the “accident”.

WSH,

You just confused me. That comment is where? JWG’s post where?

“An odor by any other name” is on another site, but seems linked to this discussion. Am I losing it ( it wouldn’t be a stretch)? I don’t post on the other blog, I thought you linked it here for discussion. Look at the side panel on the upper left corner.

Do you want me to send a screen grab?

I sent it. If you click on “an odor by any other name”, it links to JWG’s post. But as you can see, it looks like that was a person’s name posting on this thread.

Oh, okay, I just confused myself. Now I see what you are referring to. You’re referring to JWG’s idea that the tape was not applied until a day or two later when the decomp fluids started to issue from the mouth and nose.

JWG and I are aligned on this theory. Please note – that’s just what I think (and apparently JWG – although I didn’t realize until he wrote that article that he also believed this to be the case).

I don’t believe it would be that difficult to apply duct tape to the body at that point – but I’d point out that if the scenario I believe happened (and JWG details in his article) is true – there were THREE to FOUR pieces of duct tape applied…which would indicate some type of issue, wouldn’t it?

Just remember – eventually at least one piece of duct tape reached around the sides of her head – which may have been an attempt to both tighten it’s grip and catch something (hair) that would hold it.

It is possible that the tape was applied after the fact to also staunch the release of gas against the vocal chords – which produces a moaning sound of sorts and can be awkward coming from your trunk while you are waiting to permanently dispose of the body at the final dump site. this would be even more needed in the backyard at the Anthony home, perhaps, if Caylee was in fact in the dollhouse or somewhere else there on a temporary basis. Duct tape across the pelvic region and across the face would help to stop escaping gas noises for a short time – a day or two.

I know it is pretty gross to think this way, but it is one possible reason for the duct tape – as is the need to do something to add to the concept of a kidnapping.

Anything, I suppose, could have happened. But in the early part of the case, even now, accidental death could have been an easy tale to spin. And the Anthonys are fond of spinning angles. Then she could have gotten away with improper disposal of a corpse, or whatever that charge is. I now believe what happened was far more sinister. However, in the end, this may be what the defense will throw out, if all other avenues fail.

But again, only my opinion. Her flat affect and lack of genuine emotion regarding Caylee’s death, demonstrates a coldness, which leads me to believe that she is at least capable of something far worse than an accident.

WSH,

That’s the bane of trying to stick with facts…they don’t always apply the way we would want them to.

Here’s the deal on why I think this scenario is the case:

There was ample decomp fluid that issued onto the trunk carpet. Enough to create a sizable stain. If duct tape were used to murder Caylee, there would have been no way for this amount of decomp fluid to contaminate the carpet. It simply can’t be explain if the mouth and nose were sealed prior to death in a manner sufficient to not even allow air in.

A rule of thumb from scientific standpoint – if air can’t get in a passage way, fluid can’t get out. It’s just a fact.

With Caylee having a pull-up on, we’re then left (under the scenario of duct tape being the murder weapon) with no sound way to explain that amount of decomp fluid issuing into the trunk.

The fluids had to issue prior to the tape being applied, and her being bagged. I believe these steps were taken when Casey found she had created quite a mess in her trunk.

But another thing to consider is that decomp fluids can also pass out through the eyes and ears, and through the diaper, as you stated, from the orifices there. If Casey was to use the duct tape to “seal” the body because it was creating a mess, I personally find it difficult to believe that she would then take the extra time and step to apply a heart shaped sticker over this “problem”, as you believe she was treating it, at that point. But we may just have to agree to disagree.

The heart sticker could have simply been garbage in the trunk floor or in the bag that Caylee was placed in and the mess of the decomp fluid could have eventually caused it to come off of its nonstick backing and end up on part of the duct tape. Stanger things have been known to happen….

The heart sticker also vies against the sociopathic designation of Casey – a sociopath would not have the emotional connectedness to place a sticker of this sort on the duct tape.

William

To your first post, true, could be.

On the second, I have never felt that Casey was a sociopath. I am not a Doctor, so really my opinion doesn’t hold weight. But apparently, from what I have read, the narcissistic personality is on a continum. On the low end, you may have a self-absorbed, criticism-sensitive, low self esteemed person and on the high end of malignant narcissism to sociopath, you have a person completely driven by self and devoid of empathy or concern for others. I believe that Casey did feel some remorse after the fact, while at Tony’s and crying over Caylee’s video. But when the chips are down, she is much more concerned about self-preservation than she has regrets about what happened to Caylee. She has demonstrated anger, when attention was turned to Caylee after the fact. So I believe she is somewhere in the middle, or lower end, just an opinion, and without expertise in the psych field .

I have also thought that Caylee was killed in the swimming pool by Casey either in a state of rage or by maniacal design. I believe she applied the tape shortly after her body was taken out of the pool and lying on the ground. Fluids are released from the nose and mouth very quickly after drowning and before decomposition. I think that the sticker was applied while Caylee still looked rather nice, as if sleeping. Casey wouldn’t have put a sticker on the face of a decomposing body, by that time it would have been a burden and nothing else.

sorry for the typos.

WSH:

I agree, that she probably isn’t a sociopath – that is simply the opinion of the one psychologist who has sounded off about Casey on Nancy Grace and her blog. Still – if she is a sociopath, then the sticker had to have gotten there some other way since a sociopath couldn’t care less about anyone else.

William

Unless of course, someone could argue the sticker was placed with malice or as a “calling card”, sign or message to Cindy, if you are of that opinion, (which I am not), because Casey’s photo bucket was full of hearts.

WSH:

Had not thought of that, but it would be an alternate explanation. Sociopath or not, Casey appears to have had lots of rage against Cindy and George and it could have been her way of letting them know that she did it if she were to have gotten away with it without consequences.

Tug:

But remember that Casey had recently become enamored of death. She may have found the decomp fascinating instead of a burden. That could be why she drove around with her in the trunk for so long – to keep death close by. Also, she may have put the sticker on AFTER she became skelentonized since she had an developed a real affinity for skelentons.

Wow William

If your last post is true, that would be even more disturbing and demented.

One more thought. With dead weight, and Casey being tiny & thin, it might have been difficult to pull the bags straight up and out neatly. So with a big old heave- ho, using rapid velocity, some leverage with her legs against the back of the car, one big sweep could get the bag from the trunk to the dump site in one move; fluids could swish around and splash back into the trunk, rather than leak through the baggage. Maybe that’s why the pants got smelly, from splatter.

Of course, Caylee may not have been double bagged in the first place. Or if she was, depending on the bottom or top seal or closure, how strong the bag’s seams were to begin with, how much fluid there was & where it was collecting inside the bags, the fluid could have breached the bag, or broken the damn, if you will. Some bags have pinprick holes by virtue of faulty manufacturing to begin with.

Okay Val, I will shut up about this now. Just an alternative theory.

Do we know what the date & time that LE took possession of said laptop?

Hi Jane,

Casey’s laptop was turned over to the OCSO Computer Crimes Lab on June 16th, 2008.

From what the ME stated about the corpse being placed in the dump site during the early onset of decomposition, if Casey did admire her handiwork then she must have done so in situ. It is certainly possible. Nothing about the dump scene contradicts the possibility. She would truly have to have been one sick puppy though….

I had two sisters who were murdered. One in the 1970s in PA and the other in the 1980s in Florida. One by an ex-husband (who shot her in the head in front of a large number of witnesses). The other by a drug gang for being an informant. The ex-husband only received a very light sentence because he was able to offer up a lot of drug folk and other criminals in exchange for a light sentence. The gang member was never caught or identified. Their names were Carey and Pam.

It would be easy for me to side exclusively with the prosecution in the Anthony case, but I try not to allow these events to rule my world any more. They once did and I nearly went to the dark-side and exacted revenge for Carey once (as did one of my brothers at a different time). Fate interceded in both instances and everyone was spared. I am not over it – you never get over it, but I am no longer consumed by it….

I’m sorry to hear about the murders of your sisters, William. That must have been a heavy burden to bear, especially the unsolved case. It is remarkable that you have moved beyond bitterness. It sounds as though your sisters may have lived unfortunate troubled lives before their demise. Bravo to you for your ability to keep an open mind with ‘all things’ in the criminal justice system.