Michael Joseph Lizzi: An Insane Killing

Val, there is something seriously WRONG in the State of Florida.

Sounds so much like the execution of the four police officers in WA State (where I live). The dude was pardoned by Mike Huckabee in Arkansas after being sentenced to 95 years in prison. Plus, he had assaulted an officer, and been charged with child rape in WA, and was released on bail. What the hell is wrong with our judicial system?

Debra
If they get their hands on this man, I hope he’ll get DP. But while he stands in the Death Row queu (a couple of years I suppose… Gov Huckabee should be also sentenced to VISIT HIM EVERY SUNDAY, to listen to “his adventurous life” for as long as the inmate feels is necessary, and PAY FULLY for those 9 children education until they graduate from University.

I think the level of inhumanity in these crimes are asking for “creative punishment” for those who were utterly responsible for this tragedy.

Anthony Sowell was a listed sex offender on parole and managed to keep 11 rotting bodies in his house even with parole officers checking on him and at least one woman filing charges he drug into his home, beat and tried to rape her.

Phillip Garrido was able to keep Jaycee Dugard and two children he fathered in tents in his backyard for 18 years while various parole officers checked on him for 2 decades.

And Maurice Clemons should still be in jail instead of four funerals being carried out.

I don’t think we have to pick on Florida. Something’s just not right in a whole lot places these days. We’ve got a sentencing system that has our prisons flooded by people who get caught smoking an occasional $pliffer while sex offenders and murderers get culled out of the system for whatever inane reason – be it overcrowding, to make a political show, whatever.

There are not enough parole officers to handle the number of parolees and those parole officers have to spend time on the smoker just like they have to spend time on the sex offender/murderer/etc.

And all the while the law enforcement officers, investigators and prosecutors who work so hard to get these true animals off the street in the first place had to watch this silly nonsense taking place. I wonder how many officers over the past 2 decades who have had altercations with Lizzi are shaking their heads today on the fact they could see this was inevitable.

But here’s something about Lizzi’s history that I want to learn more about. Because the following issues really bug me about “not guilty by reason of insanity” rulings (which by the way is what the judge ruled on Carol Sue Elvaker – that’s why I want to know if she is still institutionalized).

Here are my questions:

1. The ruling is “not guilty by reason of insanity“. In other words, by reason of your sheer level of insaneness you are not competent to participate in your own trial OR at the time you committed the crime you were so friggin’ loony you didn’t know right from wrong – therefore we are ruling “not guilty” on these charges and …. ?

2. What? If the REASON that you are completely removed from the judicial process and/or accountability for your otherwise criminal actions (because you still committed a criminal action even if you were ruled insane at the time you committed them) is based solely on your level of incompetence due to insanity, then shouldn’t you be remanded to an institution until such time that your “level of incompetence” is proven by doctors to be above that? In the case of Lizzi – there is no way that took place after the first charges because he was back in court a month later! Which leads me to…

3. How in Sam Hell can you be ruled “not guilty by reason of insanity” in January and then be allowed to enter a plea of nolo contendere a month later??? Did you all of a sudden “get well”?

4. If a person is ruled “not guilty by reason of insanity” in a prior case and then ends up before a judge again attempting to be ruled “not guilty by reason of insanity” – SHOULD IT NOT BE LAW THAT prior “not guilty by reason of insanity” rulings be entered into that court proceeding??? Because this is not the same as being ruled “not guilty”…period. This is DUE TO INSANITY. And should not a record of prior INSANITY be known by EVERY court that sees you claiming insanity again? NOT to prejudice that court toward a different ruling (because if you are truly insane, then the “not guilty by reason of insanity” ruling is going to be rendered again), BUT BECAUSE THE COURT SYSTEM NEEDS TO KNOW YOU HAVE A HISTORY OF INSANITY!

How the flaming hell can these crazy people be “pegged” by the judicial system to be a threat to society due to their insanity if a court can’t hear that they have previously been ruled insane!

5. And lastly – if the court DID HEAR that he had previously been ruled “not guilty by reason of insanity” – didn’t anybody’s lightbulb go on that this crazy bastard needed to be institutionalized FOR THE GOOD OF SOCIETY?

These cases here are what really stump me.

*rant off*

Val
I care less about the ability of the perpetrator to recognize the facts/crime commited, as I do for the “level of endangerment” (for self & others) that might derive from those actions analisys & his/hers Mental State.

I guess he/she are being protected too (from himself) being locked up safely.
The inabillity to function in society should be deductive & prevent further drama, and not Enable it, IMO

Anyway, you cannot complaint of the american system too much.IMO. Here, there’s no DP, in fact there’s not even judicial “cumulus”, i mean, if you kill one soul, or you kill plenty, you can expect the same max of 25 years . nd if you behave, you’re out sooner!
(which reminds me of that movie ” Cheaper by the Dozen”. INSANE ISNT IT?

IMO – the first thing we need to do is stop trying to rehabilitate in prison. Punish the crime in prison. Stop coddling murders, rapists and thieves. Remove any and all ‘luxuries’. No cable TV, no work out rooms. Keep them in thier cages like the animals they have chosen to behave like.

I don’t want to hear about the abuses they grew up with or the lack of advantages they were given. I suffered abuses. I have had to struggle in my life. Does any one care about that? Why should anyone? We all have things we have to deal with. Miracle of miracles – we do.

I believe what is wrong with our justice system is that we have the Supreme Court disecting every sentence and adding their own spin to the very simple constitution our forefathers designed. Our constitution was not designed to get guilty people off. It was originally designed to stop the King of England (or any government) from coming to America and taking the livelyhood from innocent people just because he (his appointed army) could. Then when those people resisted they were taken to England and sentenced to die by the Kings men. Our justice system was written to keep innocent people and their property safe from tyrants. And to ensure that a person was properly tried by a jury of their peers (neighbors) instead of the tyrants hinchmen. All the loopholes that the so-called superior minds create is not justice. It is a simple case of people being so “smart” they are stupid. They can’t see the forest for the trees, in other words.

Valhall, you make perfect sense. It’s called common sense; something that the courts often lack. The whole purpose of a justice system is to punish those for doing wrong, AND to protect innocent people. How can anyone justify putting a person who is a danger to society on the streets? Is that not the same as aiding in a criminal act? It is illegal for a person to help/hide a felon and it should be illegal for a judge to allow a person who is a danger to society back on the street. Unless of course, the judge wants that person living with his/her family!

Kim: I think you have a good point. I would take it one step further. We do need a system that can habilitate (I do not say re-habilitate because many neglected children were never taught right from wrong in the first place) those who were raised with a lack of supervision and fall into minor criminal activities (drugs, petty theft, etc.). However, rapists, murders and people in power who abuse that power obviously have something wrong with the wiring in their brain. Not that they are crazy, I don’t believe they are crazy. I do believe that there is something wrong with their thinking or they wouldn’t do what they do. Those people can not be habilitated. They are selfish and do not care about anyone else. They should be removed from society and punished.

Nan
thank you for the help, that’s a perfect way to put it!
Some ppl can spend a life in prison ..and never EVER get it, as why they’re there!
just Check some “famous last words” from ppl on death row, if you’re waiting for them to have an epiphany moment even minutes away from death, that “enlightment” never comes…

Val, please forgive my sensitivity for all of the mishaps that have so plagued Florida, as of late. It’s difficult not to feel there is something especially amiss here, when it’s been one senseless killing after another, and the Lizzi matter is yet one more.

I absolutely and utterly sympathasize/agree with your above post; and isn’t this even why so many attempts are made at the insanity defense? It’s the easiest way to escape a more serious offense such as cold blooded, first degree (or second) murder.
What does one get when one is awarded such a ruling but some down time in a state run institution, or perhaps the protected parameters of a psychiatric ward at a specially staffed prison, and enough medication to cause one to appear more normal than not after the course of say, 30 something days (see your comment #3) when most psychotropics kick in and actually alter the chemical imbalances (if in fact chemical imbalances are the cause of such behaviors) and improve behaviors, which quickly revert back to the same old same old within a handful of days spent missing doses.

But of course the full blown psychotic behaviors progress over time, so unless the courts are willing to appoint round the clock babysitters for these people, I believe (see your comment #4) there should be such a policy as two strikes you’re out, not three, not four, not the half a dozen that we deal with now. Two strikes and your locked up for 5-10 mandatory, so there would be no more, “You were sick in the head then, but you’re alright now; just be sure to take your meds because we don’t want to see you back here anytime soon.”

I guess I have to tell you, though, that I’m not at all convinced that Lizzi has a mental deficiency, as much as he seems just plain old mean, yet well knows how to play the system. Do we have a formal diagnosis, or a sound evaluation on this joker?

Most respectfully and all the more impressed by you and your remarkable successes here,
Willow

P.S. I understand that he’s long since been determined “insane”, but what exactly are the underlying factors? Mania? Schizophrenia?

me

Hi Willow,

Looking at the court records available without going to the court house (and I’m not sure if I could even look at the diagnosis then what with the protections of HIPAA) it does not state what the exact diagnosis is. However, I will point out that over almost 2 decades multiple doctors and institutions have appeared to rally in the cause he needs to be institutionalized.

Now, to address your other statements. I know there is the “abuse of the system” factor involved when talking about an insanity plea. There is always an “abuse of the system” factor when talking about anything. BUT, I don’t believe “they pull it off” near as much as we might fear. And it’s not those I’m as worried about as it is those that are truly insane…to the point of “not knowing right from wrong”.

This is where “immoral” and “amoral” come into play. An immoral person (well…like our dear Princess Poopie Pants) knows right from wrong and chooses to do the lesser of the two paths. While that has its own inherent punishable aspects to it, I question where our priorities are when addressing the “good of the greater” – i.e. the welfare of society.

An amoral person does not recognize that there is good or evil (this is where I have to default to my opinion only), which to me is NECESSARILY insane. It is my position that a person that cannot tell right from wrong is INHERENTLY more dangerous than a person who can – whether that person chooses to do wrong or not. To not even be able to discern wrong and then commit a criminal act is far more of a threat to society (in this person’s mind) as some one who (possibly due to circumstances – lack of funds? fear? desperation?) chooses an errant path.

WHY do we have a system that allows a person who has been diagnosed to not be able to perform the most basic requirement put on us by society – that of recognizing right and wrong – able to be rendered “not guilty” by that very unacceptable trait?

And what I mean is this…IF that person is diagnosed to be of a condition that society should immediately reject (i.e. they cannot discern what is acceptable and unacceptable behavior) some times THE EVIDENCE IS NOT EVEN PRESENTED IN COURT. So, let’s take Lizzi’s example. He tries to run over two troopers in his car. THAT IS A CRIME. But because he has a defect that leads to a lack of conscience, the court doesn’t even hear that he TRIED TO RUN OVER TWO TROOPERS WITH HIS CAR. Because he is declared incompetent to stand trial.

OR – what I believe is worse yet – to have a court hear that he DID try to run over two troopers, but because a doctor takes the stand and says “he has been diagnosed with XXX and he clearly didn’t know what he was doing was wrong” that court then returns – “not guilty by reason of insanity”. That reads – at least to me – “he didn’t do it because he was crazy”.

But he did do it! Why can’t it be “guilty by reason of insanity” if the evidence proves he did do it? THAT’S where things are gimped up.

Val,

Thanks for responding. I agree he’s amoral. I also agree that he should not have had access to any sort of freedom until it was fully determined that he was no longer the menace to society that he had proven himself to be. I’d be most interested to know where he was for 14 years. It’s frightening to think that he may not have been locked up somewhere and what damage he’s caused that hasn’t been found out.

Another sad fact is that now, in the wake of the nightmare, in the wake of his mother’s death that shouldn’t have happened, as he should never have been in a facility such as Lakeside, our legislators might wake up and take notice and so something. It always takes a tragedy, doesn’t it? Though I have to admit, I rather doubt that too much of anything will change until enough people are no less than outraged, or many more fall victim, and that too has to change.

Perhaps that’s the answer to all of the WHYS, Val, because we as a whole society have stopped caring enough so that we might become outraged enough and raise our voises loudly enough so as to be heard, “Enough is enough!

Willow

Just thought I’d share this with you, Val. But no, it won’t make you feel better.

Val, you got me thinking our own neighborhood “Billy”, which is really his name. My kids could tell you more about him than I can, because they were among the very few who dared to talk to him. Most everyone else ran the other way, locked their doors, and closed their blinds when they saw him bee-bopping up the street, in his usual way, arms flailing, always talking to himself, laughing at nothing or smashing his fists into whatever got in his way. That’s pretty much how both of his legs got smashed, landing him in the hospital for all of 2 months. A car didn’t stop to let him cross the street, and so he just started beating on it. The poor woman inside was so terrified she stomped on the gas and ran him right over. He was in leg braces for years, but that didn’t stop him from bee-bopping up and down the street and flailing his arms and talking to himself and laughing at nothing, and telling everyone who would listen, “Who’s the greatest! You know who’s the greatest! Billy’s the greatest! You know it’s true!”

One really had to watch so as not to be struck by one of his hands at the end of his flailing arms, when he got started. His hands kinda snapped at the wrists and if one struck you, it hurt. So whenever he was around you had to stand way back or risk being smacked. That was always disconcerting. He was insane so his father, a retired deputy sheriff would keep a close eye on him, up to the time Billy got mad at him and shot him, at point blank range and with his own Glock. He didn’t die, but he almost did, and of course Billy was charged with attempted murder and various other things, but because he was nuts, he was (and this is what he would say) he was sent to “a special place, because …. “I’m the greatest!”

He served 18 months in a mental health facility that was part of one of the prisons here. Hamilton I think it was, and then he was out, and of course, because he was nuts, he came right back home to live with his father, and did what he always did — you got it! Bee-bopped up and down the street, talking to himself and laughing at nothing, with arms flailing and wrists snapping, and eventually his father decided it was time for Billy to drive. He was pushing 30 afterall, and so what if it took him upteen tries to become licensed and never mind that he couldn’t drive in a straight line. His father was higher up in the Sheriff’s department, and besides, Billy was the greatest, especially cruising in his car. I always thought what man in his right mind would let Billy drive?

We haven’t seen Billy since the last time he stopped by. Near hit the mailbox pulling into the drive, and managed to park half on the grass and half in the road. That was Billy, in the car he’d crashed so many times that his father threatened to take the keys from him, to which Billy said if he did that he’d just have to shoot him again. It’s rather strange that no one’s seen nor heard so much as a word about Billy in a quite a while now. Perhaps he’s dead. Perhaps someone else is, and perhaps Billy’s back in that “special place”, and if he is, I hope they keep him this time.

Willow

Re: my post from 12/2, I’m sure everyone knows by now that Maurice Clemons was shot and killed by a Seattle police officer, who has now been deemed a hero. Kudos to that officer.

At least 6 people have been arrested for helping Clemons avoid arrest, and according to SPD, more arrests are in the works. On the local news last night, they interviewed a young woman who went on and on about what a great guy Clemons was…always there when anybody needed help, she hung out with him, went to movies with him, and went on to say that had he asked her to help him find a place to hide out, she would have done it in a heartbeat. Even knowing what he had done.

WTF??? There was a $125,000 reward offered for this asshole’s arrest. Like the lead detective said, any one of the people that helped him had 125,000 reasons to turn him in. Yet, they chose to help him.

I just don’t get the honor among thieves mentality, I guess.

I think it will be very interesting what happens in the justice system with those six “helpers”. I don’t know the charges. Felony? Misdemeaner? Usually these types of friends are not charged, just disliked. I have never heard of any being sent to jail. What are the precedents? I know the county is very angry right now, but will they follow through? I hope so.

Tob, here are some links to the articles about the “helpers”. Pretty sure these “friends” are most likely going to be charged with felonies, and if not, they should be. Quite the sad bunch.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2010446829_webshootinghelp07m.html